Getting More of What We Want

by: Mike Lux

Mon Dec 07, 2009 at 20:40


We are getting to that gritty grimy disgusting part of the legislative sausage making on health care where the fight is less about what shining principles we will achieve, and more about the best possible negotiating strategy for getting the best possible details in the bill. On a wide range of issues- including the public option, affordability for the middle class, who pays what in new taxes, how to lock in new cost savings, abortion, immigration- negotiators are still hammering out a wide range of details. Anyone who thinks either progressives or conservatives get a clean win on any of this is wrong, but anyone who writes the whole negotiation exercise as unimportant because we can't get clean wins is even more wrong. I have seen the effect of the details of public policy from both ends, as an organizer of poor and working class people and as a White House official, and I guarantee you that these details in real life.

We are now at a point where (a) the reconciliation option is virtually off the table for all kinds of political, timing, and procedural reasons (some of which I outlined a few days ago here); and (b) we are so close to getting a bill done that no one wants to be the person who stops it, making it likely to get passed. Where that leaves us is white knuckle negotiation time. The bill was never going to be everything progressives wanted: the question now is what percentage of what we wanted can we get.

Let's take the most publicized fight, the public option. We know for sure that it isn't going to look anything like Yale professor Jacob Hacker wrote up the public option idea a couple of years back, and all of us who have been fighting so hard for its enactment for the last 18 months are deeply troubled by that. But having fallen short of that, the details that are currently being discussed will matter enormously: will the new entity be national in scope or state by state? Will it be available from day one of a new system, or only if triggered? If there is a trigger, is it a trigger written never to trigger as the first Snowe trigger was, or is it a trigger that is more likely to be triggered, and triggered early on? Do anti-trust standards ever come into play in terms of the competitiveness of individual insurance markets? If the new entity is not exactly a public option, does it look more like the Tennesee Valley Authority in terms of its structure, or Fannie Mae (TVA is a whole lot better, because its board is appointed publicly and it is more accountable in general)? Are more people eligible for Medicare, Medicaid, and S-CHIP?

All of this matters a huge amount. These details have an enormous amount to say on whether there is any kind of real competition for private insurers, and on whether tens of millions have access to any kind of a decent public option, whatever it is called.

On every single issue, these kind of essential details are being worked through. It is essential that progressives negotiate together, and negotiate well, for us to end up with a decent bill. We can still make this a much better bill, but the process is as intense as it gets.

Mike Lux :: Getting More of What We Want

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"no one wants to be the person who stops it"? Not even Joe One? (4.00 / 1)
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dems need all thir votes, and Joelitude still refuses to paly along wiht thw other kids, right? Not to speak of the other spoilsport who has his collegues in a Double Nelson. Where's the effing Joementum to get anything meaningful passed?

Hmm, maybe there's an ole hippy somewhere with a secret plan to hijack the obstructionists, and send some lookalikes from the Dollhouse to that important vote? I already wondered what that blog post here was good for, but now I smell the roses!


Not even Lieberman and Nelson (4.00 / 1)
want to be the one who stops the whole bill. They unfortunately care a lot about stopping certain parts of it though.

[ Parent ]
But, more progressive Senators don't want to be the ones too. (0.00 / 0)
So, this all boils down to a game of chicken. Who loses his nerves first? And I wouldn't bet against Joechones Lieberman. After all, does he want to run for reelection at all? Why should he care about his base? 2012 is far away, voters have a bad memory, and retirement at 70 isn't such a tragedy, either.

However, if Al Franken would play the progressive madman acting like he doesn't care if the whole crap fails, this may make a difference. He's not really an insider yet, and his collegues may believe he isn't bluffing when he goes all in...


[ Parent ]
That describes Burris (4.00 / 3)
...the progressive madman acting like he doesn't care if the whole crap fails, this may make a difference. He's not really an insider yet, and his collegues may believe he isn't bluffing when he goes all in...

What's he got to lose? They crapped all over him when he came in, his reelection prospects as a 'traditional incumbent' are dicey given the circumstances of his appointment, so he can really throw caution to the wind.

The madman standing up for the 60% of the people who want a real public option. "I'm with the people and I'm not budging." That could play. That could be believable.  

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


[ Parent ]
Yup, I forgot about Burris. But this makes alotof sense. (4.00 / 2)
Last man standing. The guy who has nothing to lose, fighting for the people. From what we read about the guy, he really would love that image. He sure has the balls, too, he showed this when he insisted on his appointment, against the resistance of the whole party. That's a guy who can stare the Joeker down! And a desperate stunt, coming with lots of publicity, may even bring him reelection in 2010. That's the stuff movies are made of! Yes, progressive should definitively talk with Burris. That maybe the surprising move that changes the game.

[ Parent ]
When they talk to him (4.00 / 3)
they should suggest that he stay away from small planes.

[ Parent ]
I think there is about as much chance of progressives (0.00 / 0)
doing anything other than capitulating as there is of my sprouting a unicorn from my head right now.  

[ Parent ]
ahh cynicism (4.00 / 1)
The only people that will be weak is our side, the only losers work for us, the way out is giving up, and while we are at it we should make sure everyone learns this truth and gives up too.

Despair. Weep.

Cynicism looks just like wisdom, but its made from cyanide.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
I am not interested in delusional thought processes (4.00 / 1)
It is not cynicism to pay attention to character evidence. It is however delusional to ignore character evidence.  

[ Parent ]
What character evidence? Shoot! (0.00 / 0)
Because it is cyinism to have evidence why something won't work, and not tell anybody!

[ Parent ]
I can not teach blind men to see (0.00 / 0)
 I did not say a strategy of progressives fighting would not work. I said that there is no evidence that progressives will follow through with what they say they will do. No one believes the threat is true because of previous character evidence. The later point is not the nature of a strategy. All the best intentions in the world don't mean shit if you don't follow through with it. These are hard lessons that I am learning in my own business, and seeing it with the Democrats only make me that much more resolved not to repeat their character deficits in my own actions.  

[ Parent ]
Such cynicism could be ablated by a set of party leaders (0.00 / 0)
that did not actively look for ways to capitulate.

You are blaming the victims. How many more times do you need to be let down by those who promised change yet deliver more of the same? One more time? Two? Good luck to you. Some of us have had enough.

My cynicism was beaten into me by a political system that has virtually no concern for my views and perspectives. Yet, here you are, telling me that the "wise" choice is to get in line for the next beating, only this time, try to enjoy it a bit more.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
So.. ? -Thats the rule. I dont make the rules. (0.00 / 0)
Your job is to win by being beaten. Next time try an avoid the beatings.  Beatings come from being beatable. Stop being beatable. Organize better.

Obama (no matter, please, what you think of his performance now) is not complaining about President Hillary Clinton's EPA policies. Not a peep.

Is this cruel and inforgivingly bleak advice? Yep, and its also a hell of lot more effective than cynicism.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Spoilsport! (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, you're prolly right, Bruh, but every now and then, miracles happen! Like people falling out of airplanes without a chute, and surviving:
http://adventure.howstuffworks...

[ Parent ]
they may not want to, but they will (4.00 / 1)
Reid would not be capitulating to them if he didn't believe that. You don't see or hear any evidence of twisting the innards of that sausage to hold on to, say, Sherrod Brown's vote.

The conservatives can credibly threaten to walk because failure is acceptable to them. Or at the very least, everyone believes that they'll do it.

You can't say the same thing about the left. Which is why the left has zero clout in this argument.

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


[ Parent ]
failure may be preferable for them (4.00 / 1)
If the GOP picks up 7 or 8 seats, the power of a Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman arguably increases.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
Zero clout, except for Senator Burris, as Steve pointed out. (4.00 / 1)
Burris has NOTHING to lose. All his life he wanted to be Senator, but now it looks like nobody wants to remember his term, and for the party he's an embarassment. Any chances for reelection are hypothetical. But if he makes a desperate stunt now, strongarming his wole party, making a stand for th choice of the people, that may totally change his outlook. Even Lieberman has something to lose, he may not seek another term, but he sure doesn't want to remembered as the jerk who killed the most important Dem legislation in a generation.

When it comes to a showdown against a real madman, even Joehnny Ringo will blink. Burris, on the other hand, is bulletproof, he can only win. What can the Dms do to him, primary him, ruin his reputation? D'oh! He can say "my way or the highway", knowing fully well the Dems NEED his vote, and that for everybody else there's more at stake. And a guy who waited so long to fulfill his dream, only to see it tainted, must be eager for such an opportunity to turn the tide. Yes, imho there's something to it: If the progressives can interest him in the part, Burris may become the gunslinger with the white hat who saves the day at the very last moment.


[ Parent ]
Maybe I'm a bit quixotic now, but I almost can see the presser: (4.00 / 1)
'After careful consideration, Senator Burris has come to the conclusion that the highlight of what may be his only term shouldn't be a vote he doesn't believe in. Roland Wallace Burris has always been a champion for the people, fighting for the welfare of all Americans, and is deeply committed to the ideal of a real, meaningful healthcare reform. Therefore, Senator Burris won't vote for any healthcare bill that doesn't include a public option, providing stability and security, and ensuring affordable coverage for the people. This position is not negotiable, and the junior Senator from Illinois won't support any deviation from this principle.'

Damn, I know that's just a phantasm, prolly because I didn't sleep too much, but what a daydream!


[ Parent ]
They don't care if they stop it (0.00 / 0)
They just want to make it look like they had to, because liberals were mean to them.

Drudge, Politico and the rest of the media will happily sell this for them, so I don't see that they face that many obstacles to blowing the whole thing up.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
let me not be confused (4.00 / 5)
I grasp this,
It is essential that progressives negotiate together, and negotiate well, for us to end up with a decent bill.

but you'd have to talk long, loud, and hard to dissuade me from also understanding that what we will have agreed to is underwriting the medical insurance companies' business model well into the future.  And, should you be inclined, it goes without saying that I am as bitter about the federal government practicing corporate socialism for the insurance companies as I am about the federal government practicing corporate socialism for the hedge funds.

That said, how much of the wheeling and dealing will be made public or transparent, and will there be pressure points that can be taken advantage of along the way?  Or, is your assertion about negotiating together and well an appeal to sit down and not rock the boat?


Rock the boat, baby. (4.00 / 2)
Those of us on the outside should rock away. I was referring to the progressives in congress. As any good union member can tell you, negotiating as a group is a lot more powerful than trying to do it one by one.

[ Parent ]
got it (4.00 / 2)
Then I hope those opportunities for this baby to rock the boat make it to the front page of Open Left because, I assume that same good union member, would tell me that rocking the boat together as outside agitators is a whole lot more powerful than doing it one by one, as well.

[ Parent ]
I say We should (4.00 / 3)
Ready the pitchforks and torches and prepare to march the manor. When does strategic retreat become a rout?

It is fine to let the progressives in congress to cut the best deal they can. But that doesn't say spit about what we should be doing.

We should be yelling and screaming, Kicking and clawing so much that they spend all next year before the election trying to calm us down.


Gear up for the primaries NOW (4.00 / 3)
The problem is that we have neither torches nor pitchforks.  That's where the Full Court Press tactic comes in.  It is one weapon among many that we can begin to wield.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
Lack of detailed analysis a real problem (4.00 / 3)
You're absolutely right to focus on the importance of detail in the drafting of the public option legislation.

But this factor applies to the bill in general.

I've no expertise which would allow me to do the necessary analysis of provisions in the health care bill.

But there's no doubt that the bill is studded with elements of egregious corporate welfare which only a knowledgeable reading would discover. (Plus, of course, the thing is 2,000 plus pages long and a lot of it legislates by amending existing legislation.)

(For example, see my most recent piece on the subject.)

The problem is that whereas the Interests have millions worth of legal firepower on their side to understand the drafting complexities (not to mention doing the actual drafting), our side doesn't.

To find out the nasties lurking in the bill, we're reliant on the whims and agendas of the mainstream media, the research done by nonprofits and the the chance findings of interested bloggers.

There's nothing systematic.

Moreover, there's no place online in which the bits of analysis which has been done are collected for easy reference.

A lack of such information puts us at a serious disadvantage when it comes to debating legislative detail.

Any ideas?


you can be sure (0.00 / 0)
that some features/loopholes planted in this bill by industry lobbyists won't be discussed anywhere publicly until after Obama signs the thing.

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[ Parent ]
up from below (4.00 / 2)
There's a new "gang" in Congress. The "gang of 10". It is now being speculated they are going to deliver this psuedo reform package to our psuedo progressive president in the psuedo "people's house" over on pennsylvannia avenue.

The gap between what the democrats promised us on the campaign trail in 2008 and what Reid/Baucus Inc. will deliver to the nation soon is as wide and as deep as the gap between what the democrats promised us on the campaign trail in 2006 regarding campaign finance reform and the farcical legislative agenda that actually became the law of the land.

Did anyone notice how dramatically crony capitalism was pared back in 2008 as a result of this campaign reform legislation from the democrats?

Maybe there really are important reform elements in this legislation. After all, the insurance industry keeps kicking up dust about it. Or is that all part of a charade?

The economic crisis demonstrated as nothing has in years just how far up Wall Street's ass both the democrats and the republicans in Washington are. And the healthcare "debate" appears to be just more of the same.

When is the left going to crawl up out of its 25 year hibernation and channel the outrage percolating up and down Main Street into real political pressure from below? Do we always have to see the folks from BeckWorld leading them to the Capitol building in Washington and the states?

There is a march on Wshington D.C. next Spring. We need hundreds of thousands of progressives to show up. This has to be the springboard, the launching pad for a new mass movement. Without it how realistic can we be that things will change at all.  



When the American people discover that you saddled them with (4.00 / 3)
a mandate without any way to address cost containment, all I can say is good luck. You will need it.  

exactly (0.00 / 0)
and let's not kid ourselves. No trigger written into this bill will ever be pulled. The whole point of a trigger is to make sure it's never pulled.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
Everybody's afraid of the progressive inquisition! Sez the, uh, WSJ? (0.00 / 0)
But buried in the surveys is an explanation for the Democratic obsession to pass the bill: An overwhelming 76% of Democrats back it. "They believe the liberal base expects them to deliver and will punish them if they don't," says Democratic pollster Doug Schoen, who worked for Bill Clinton in the 1990s.

That fear is backed up by a new poll taken for the Daily Kos, the left-wing Web site: 81% of self-described Republicans say they are certain or likely to vote in 2010 compared to 65% of independent voters and only 56% of Democrats. "Democrats have simply not been given enough of a reason to come out and vote yet," writes liberal blogger David Dayen. "The left is waiting for that long-promised 'change' they can believe in."


http://online.wsj.com/article/...

If only this were true, that Dem Senators bend over backwards to please their base! But since the author, "Mr. Fund is a columnist forWSJ.com", a member of a gang which is notorious for getting everything wrong (just ask Brad DeLong), this can't be true. Damn.


An ironic fact (4.00 / 2)
Democrats are more afraid of their base than they are of progressive leaders.  The base will punish them, the leaders won't.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
The problem is that the conservadems... (4.00 / 3)
...believe their base is not us, and they really don't care about their compadres who would lose, either.  Most of them would be happier int the minority anyways, where they can do nothing and be "bipartisan".  Being in the Senate minority isn't so bad.  The house is a different story, but I have a feeling that blue dogs were treated nicer than the real democrats when they were in the minority.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
It is about 44,780 dying each year from no health care. (0.00 / 0)
It's all about mortality and fertility rates.

They only call it class war when we fight back.

I predict those same numbers will still be dying (4.00 / 2)
this is smoke and mirrors. Don't confuse slogan with substance.  

[ Parent ]
Reconciliation can (and will) happen... (4.00 / 3)
...if and when there is no compromise that can get 60 votes. If the choice becomes reconciliation or failure, reconciliation will start looking real good...

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans

I don't think so (0.00 / 0)
Everything I've read suggests that Reid is determined not to go that route. I wish it weren't true, but I fear it is.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
He'd rather just give up? (0.00 / 0)
So you think Reid will just give up rather than go to reconciliation if those are his only choices?

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans

[ Parent ]
I hate to sound trite (4.00 / 6)
But quoting Yeats' Second Coming, as unoriginal and predictable as it clearly is, is all that I can come up with right now, and it still rings all too true:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Until this changes, we'll continue to lose. It's literally as simple as that. While calling it "passionate" is perhaps a stretch, most of the intensity is on the other side right now, because I just don't see these "progressives" being willing to take a chance on bucking Obama and the leadership in order to stand up for what they allegedly believe in. And there's no passion to be found in "pragmatic" self-preservation, just cowardice.

If you're going to "live to fight another day" on something this important, why bother pretending that you have any intention of ever actually fighting? Their hypocrisy is transparent, they know it, and the rest is just for show.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


I gave you a four because you make a great point (0.00 / 0)
But, I disagree- there is passion to be found in self preservation. What is fascinating to me about DC and progressives thing is that they do not know what self preservation looks like. Whatever it is- it ain't this give away to the health care industry with mandates.

[ Parent ]
the reconciliation option is virtually off the table (4.00 / 1)
until it behooves them to put it on, like cutting social security and medicare, and I really don't relish having to beat them to each and every time just to get them to move.

the Democrats are off the reservation... You can send them emails and make calls they don't care about.  Me, I'm going to go find a stick. This article from CommonDreams in quick hits says it all.


The level of regressive policy making is stunning (4.00 / 2)
they are trying to dress it up, but at base, that's what we are discussing- regressive and plutocratic policy making that for the first time will force Americans to buy private industry product. Let me repeat that: They are forcing Americans to buy one private industry's product! If that ain't the definition of insanity, nothing is.

I love the way they call this moderate. I am a damn moderate. This is not a moderate policy by any stretch of the imagination. Either go all in, or not at all with the policy because that's the only way I can see benefit. As it is, they are offering my age bracket nothing.  


[ Parent ]
Thanks for bringing up that Hedges piece again (4.00 / 1)
Can't quite get this paragraph out of my head:

"You have a tug of war with one side pulling," Ralph Nader told me when we met Saturday afternoon. "The corporate interests pull on the Democratic Party the way they pull on the Republican Party. If you are a 'least-worst' voter you don't want to disturb John Kerry on the war, so you call off the anti-war demonstrations in 2004. You don't want to disturb Obama because McCain is worse. And every four years both parties get worse. There is no pull. That is the dilemma of The Nation and The Progressive and other similar publications. There is no breaking point. What is the breaking point? The criminal war of aggression in Iraq? The escalation of the war in Afghanistan? Forty-five thousand people dying a year because they can't afford health insurance? The hollowing out of communities and sending the jobs to fascist and communist regimes overseas that know how to put the workers in their place? There is no breaking point. And when there is no breaking point you do not have a moral compass."

It seems to speak directly to the situation Lux describes when he writes:

we are so close to getting a bill done that no one wants to be the person who stops it, making it likely to get passed.

Where is the breaking point? Where is the point at which one says, "no more" and stops bending over backwards in an effort to not stop a potential train wreck?  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Mike (4.00 / 1)
Tell us specifically what we can do to help at this juncture.  I appreciate your post, it is illuminating (and I believe every word), but please let us know what we can do to exert the most progressive influence in the home stretch.

And please, don't do it here - put it on the front page so everyone sees it.


ditto (0.00 / 0)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
HCR is a trojan horse now (0.00 / 0)
Why bother with a "reform" that does nothing worthwhile for the people who need it? The compromised bill is a pill from hell that's bound to hurt democrats in the end. Just a few items that are cause for worry:

1. the mandates; forcing people who can't afford it to buy costly and lousy insurance is going to boomerang. In california bay are for example, a single person earning $50 K has practically nothing left over after rent/mortgage, car, gas, taxes etc. If they have no employer provided insurance and are over 45 - the insurance they can get will cost them over $350-400./month assuming 3K deductible. If they have any condition, it's higher. Yet, such a person will not qualify for a subsidy, under HCR rules. so this person will rather pay the penalty and goes without.

Small businesses will be hurt, middle class people will get nothing; so what gives?

2. public option was meant to drive prices down. without a proper option prices for insurance will go up. That's the bottom line.

3. pre-existing conditions: that's already being rolled back. watch it nearly disappear  under a mountain of qualifiers - or just way postponed.

4. The bad (mandates) kick in first. The good (whatever good there's) not till 2013. that's a lousy bargain for democrats - they'll take the hit for the bad and get kicked out long before anything good happens.

5. cutting medicare - which goes under "savings". That's nonsense. The system doesn't have nearly the amount of waste touted. It really is a way to CUT benefits. In truth, there'll be a rationing of health care no matter what the progressive politicos are saying.

So it's a trojan horse. If I were a republican I'd vote for it as fast as I can.

I wish I knew what Lux is talking about and why I should give a hoot about a reform - that's a good as any "reform" coming out of this administration.

maybe it's time to leave the sinking ship and join a proper progressive cause. I am saddened to see how quickly progressive people are co-opted in the service of the "possible" which is really worse than nothing at all.


Why? (0.00 / 0)
If I were a republican I'd vote for it as fast as I can.

The GOP and conservoDems are doing pretty well by holding out and not supporting the bill. Why give away your vote when "your" side continues to wring concessions out of the left?  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Ah, but they'll do even better (4.00 / 1)
in the end, once all the concessions are made - since there'll be nothing much that's any good at all left.

So, we thought the republicans had a losing strategy, being the party of no andall, while the democrats are a know-it-all. Not so, apparently. they do have a strategy - for which the progressives like lux and bower are falling, apparently:

Whittle every goody out of the bill, then vote no for the final bill, which, being no good, is bound to hurt democrats - and Obama. either way - they come off winners - a bad bill will torpedo the democrats and they - republicans -  can claim they were against it.

sometimes, no means no. at other times it means - no-to-you.

can't do anything about them (republicans) since i really don't care about anything they do (except maybe, for puppies). but I sure can help drive the message to progressives: you can't win by joining the establishment - learn from the tea partier. make your own tea.


[ Parent ]
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