Senators looking to weaken Medicare compromise, but defeat Stupak amendment

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 17:43


I will be on Live from the Left Coast at 9:45 eastern / 6:45 pacific to discuss the Medicare buy-in compromise--Chris

To no one's surprise, the Senators who have worked to weaken the bill all along are now also working to weaken this compromise.  Rather than Medicare simply being available to all Americans aged 55-64, starting on the day the bill is passed, several attempts are being made to weaken even that bargain. They current debates include:

  1. Start date.  The opt-out public option would not have started until 2014.  The start date of the Medicare buy-in has not been determined, but an immediate, 2010 start-date appears to be winning the day:

    According to the well-placed source, Democrats are rallying behind a proposal that would allow a portion of the 55-64 year old age group to buy in to the Medicare system as early as 2010. By contrast, a public plan for insurance coverage would not come into being until 2014.

    This would be a dramatic improvement for the bill as a whole.  It is would also have real political benefits for the 2010 elections.

  2. Will it have an end date? Another argument is whether or not the Medicare buy-in option will end in 2014, when the subsidies to purchase health insurance begin.  An end date to the buy-in would simply not be acceptable, but it is on the table:

    Under discussion is a Medicare "buy-in" for people 55 to 64 that would be available until government subsidies start flowing in 2014 to new health insurance markets for people who have trouble getting and keeping affordable coverage. Liberals also want a Medicare option permanently available after that date.

    To take a step forward, only to give that step away in four years, is not a compromise at all.

  3. Will it include all 55 to 64 year olds, or not?  Yet another important issue is whether the Medicare buy-in would be open to everyone who is 55 or older.  Unsurprisingly, many want to further protect private insurance companies by only allowing the sickest people to buy-in:

    In addition to debating a potential start date for a Medicare buy-in proposal, Senate Democrats are also in negotiations over who, exactly, should be allowed to qualify for the expanded Medicare program. At this juncture, it doesn't appear that everyone in the 55-64-age bracket would be granted access. Negotiators are considering limiting consumers to those who would qualify for high-risk insurance pools already set up under the Senate's health care legislation. This would mean primarily those who have been uninsured for a certain amount of time, have a history of poor health or are unable to get insurance because of a preexisting condition.

    This would improve the risk pool for private insurance companies, and weaken the risk pool for Medicare.  Protecting the private companies like this, while hurting Medicare, is pure bullshit.  It needs to be open to everyone in the 55-64 age range.

  4. Medicaid expansion.  A different public option expansion, Medicaid, was defeated today.  The goal was to allow families at 150% of the poverty level to purchase Medicaid, instead of the current 133%.  The House bill mandates 150% though, so this isn't over.  If there is a conference committee, and the Progressive Caucus is demanding one, expanding the Medicaid public option will be one of the main fights.
Overall, Jay Rockefeller says a deal is close, but they are waiting for CBO scores:

Added Rockefeller: "All in all, I have to say we are in a pretty good place right now. You can see a kind of overarching sense of 'Well, yes, let's do this,' but we have to see what the (Congressional Budget Office cost estimate) is."

While leaks will continue to come out, don't expect any of the decision on details 1, 2 and 3 to be confirmed until the new version if bill is reviewed by the CBO.  When it comes to our chances of winning those fights, Sherrod Brown is drafting the proposal, which is a positive development.

Update--Senate defeats Stupak amendment:  By a vote of 54-45, the Senate comfortably defeated a Senate version of the Stupak amendment, 54-45.

Given that 45% of Senators voted for this restriction, compared to 55% of all Representatives, the Senate appears to be far more pro-choice than the House.

Update 2--Nelson not threatening to filibuster anymore: Even though his amendment went down, Ben Nelson is no longer threatening to filibuster the health care bill:

After his abortion amendment did not win the day on the Senate floor, Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) did not come out swinging. Though he insisted that the failure of his abortion amendment "makes it harder to be supportive" of Senate health care bill, he did not reiterate his pledge to filibuster the bill.

"We'll just have to see what develops," Nelson told reporters. "I have no plan B."

This gives real hope both to get a public option through expanded Medicare (and possibly Medicaid, and also to defeat the Stupak amendment.  Pulling off either seemed virtually impossible as of yesterday.

Chris Bowers :: Senators looking to weaken Medicare compromise, but defeat Stupak amendment

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or was tabled (0.00 / 0)
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...

which amounts to the same thing.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
According to the roll call (4.00 / 1)
On the motion to table the Nelson Amendment:

Collins and Snowe were, predictably, the only Republican yea votes.  Democrats voting nay were Bayh, Casey, Conrad, Dorgan, Kaufman, Nelson, and Pryor.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
thanks for the link (0.00 / 0)
For people who like Senate speechs, Bob Menendez has already put out his speech opposing the amendment.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
you keep using that word, acceptable (0.00 / 0)
"An end date to the buy-in would simply not be acceptable"

i do not think it means what you think it means...


not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


It's easy to vote for something (0.00 / 0)
when you know Kabuki is going to bail you out.

The Republicans will never stand in the way of abortions; it's all a sham.


Not for the people who matter (0.00 / 0)
... which is essentially the top 10%.  They'll be happy to make the "little people" jump through hoops and eat cat food to get one, though.

[ Parent ]
Wow..if the Medicare buy-in (4.00 / 3)
is available only for the uninsurable I will seriously lose it. That "liberal" senators would think that's an acceptable compromise is a joke. The ray of hope is that Jay Rockefeller is in on these discussions, and for all his faults on other issues, he is as good as anybody, both in conviction and policy awareness, on this healthcare and medicare. Not only is he the one that introduced this buy-in idea this time around, but he was the one in the Senate Finance Committee that first started framing the subsidies as an insurance company giveaway. So he's very well versed on the consequences of cleaning up their risk pool while dirtying Medicare's and I am confident he would at least fight against that, and hopefully win out.  

Jello Jay... (4.00 / 2)
...has evidently given up fighting on Medicaid expansion, so...

As I mentioned in Chris's previous post, I sure wish some pro-PO Senator would express dissatisfaction in order to push this thing in our favor. Dumping only the uninsurable, high risk population into Medicare should be patently unacceptable. Are Brown, Sanders, Burris, Schumer, Frankin, Boxer etc. all going to allow that? Really? Yet, so far, crickets from Senators on our side...

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


[ Parent ]
I wanted to kill Rockefeller after his FISA cave BUT (0.00 / 0)
its pretty evident that healthcare is basically why he's a Senator and he draws lines around it. I watched a lot of the Finance Committee debate on this bill, I saw him choke up and tear up when he successfully fought off Baucus' attempt to put CHIP into the exchange. This whole medicare buy in is only being talked about now because of him, no one else. Him and Bernie Saunders have been the only Senators willing to go against the "gentlemanly" nature of the Senate and critcize the bill in public and interviews, and he completely lashed out at Kent Conrad for showing skepticism towards the medicare buy-in. So no...on this issue its completely unfair to call him Jello Jay...he's a champion and big part of anything good that comes out of this.

[ Parent ]
Politicians may have different degrees of liberalism on different issues (0.00 / 0)
Even Dennis Kucinich used to be pro-life.

[ Parent ]
Shock Doctrine (4.00 / 4)
This would improve the risk pool for private insurance companies, and weaken the risk pool for Medicare.  Protecting the private companies like this, while hurting Medicare, is pure bullshit.  It needs to be open to everyone in the 55-64 age range.

BS is one way of thinking about it. Shock doctrine is another. The Republicans have been working on undoing Medicare for decades. Democrat are increasingly inclined to join them.  That this would make things worse from any reasonable perspective is more reason to think it's a possibility.  

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


Is it wrong that one of the things I would most want (4.00 / 4)
is that Medicaid be abolished and Medicaid recipients be rolled into Medicare?   I really get annoyed at state administration of a federal program.  

seems like a lot of duplication (0.00 / 0)
What's the overhead on 50 Medicaid administrations?  Can't be trivial.

[ Parent ]
Not to mention money-starved state governments (4.00 / 1)
often slash their portion of funding for Medicaid.

I support Valatan's idea of rolling Medicaid into Medicare.  Of course, our goal is to eventually have everyone on Medicare.


[ Parent ]
Ugh, I totally agree. (0.00 / 0)
  Medicaid administration is a disaster.  Only the most absurdly poor get benefits, and when they do, it's not nearly enough.  And that's if they manage to claw their way through paperwork.

[ Parent ]
and then it can be hard (0.00 / 0)
to find a provider who accepts Medicaid patients. I have a friend in that situation--hard to find a dentist for her kids.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
Do you need the product of saying PO is off the table? (0.00 / 0)


As I commented on the other thread (0.00 / 0)
here, wouldn't it make more sense to open eligibility for the Medicare buy-in to the uninsured, rather than do it along age lines?  55-64 year olds who already have insurance don't need a buy-in as much as 27-54 year olds who don't have insurance and have a mandate bearing down on them.

Also, does anyone in Congress realize that Medicare is a big government program?  I appreciate the irony in this sort of stealth approach of flying a big government expansion right under Ben Nelson's fat nose, but after the votes are cast and the bill is signed we seriously need to do a pro-government campaign that educates ordinary voters about how active government can do good and has done good with programs like Medicare, which is - gasp! - government-run health care.  I'm sick of government doing good things and never getting credit for it.


re: eligibility (0.00 / 0)
wouldn't it make more sense to open eligibility for the Medicare buy-in to the uninsured, rather than do it along age lines?  55-64 year olds who already have insurance don't need a buy-in as much as 27-54 year olds who don't have insurance and have a mandate bearing down on them.

of course it would be good to give insurance to the uninsured but wouldn't doing it this way bankrupt medicare while enriching the insurance companies?

a path to big health for all?


[ Parent ]
I don't see how this is any different from the Medicare +5 PO (4.00 / 1)
except that there would be even more savings since this is Medicare's own rates ("Medicare +0" if you will) and it'll take advantage of Medicare's existing infrastructure without having to spend extra money on start-up costs.

Not to mention that many of the uninsured (the "young invincibles") are quite healthy, and would strengthen Medicare's finances.


[ Parent ]
Unacceptable. (4.00 / 3)
  Medicare buy-in for ages 55+?!  Why the hell is that acceptable?!

 Government, apparently, is run by the elderly for the elderly.  Youth voted for Obama because our generation was crapped on by the Bush administration.  The job loss and economic downturn has hit our generation hardest, delaying our entry into the job market and leaving us without health care.  There is no draft, but young people are being de facto forced into the military because there are no other opportunities.  If there is health care reform only for a certain age group, I will be furious and so will my peers.  


Sadly, I suspect that the elderly (0.00 / 0)
will also be betrayed by this. Many of those in the 65+ range will no doubt be frightened into fearing that this will weaken Medicare (which wouldn't be entirely inaccurate.)

Sure it's not great policy, but politically....it's pretty terrible too.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
that is probably true (0.00 / 0)
Republicans will definitely try to scare the elderly into thinking this will reduce their benefits.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
Rather think that government (0.00 / 0)
is run by the big industries. The insurance industry is more than willing to let Medicare take the high risk people from 55 to 64 off their books. The younger healthiest group is the captive audience that the insurance wants. As with everything else in this so called HCR endeavor what the insurance industry wants, the industry gets.    

[ Parent ]
If they actually settle for this... (4.00 / 1)
David Dayen at FDL:

There's talk of only allowing the Medicare buy-in between now and 2014 as a stop-gap measure, limiting availability to those on the exchanges, and changing the rate schedule from Medicare for these buy-in folks to negotiated rates. So you'd have a - well, a negotiated-rate public option limited to people in the exchange, and only to those aged 55-64.

In other words, practically nothing.

Now, none of these things are definitely in or out. But chasing these deals is like chasing rainbows. There's simply no telling what will actually end up in them.

Somebody has to stand up and say "No" to this. What I would give for just one Senator with a full set of balls...

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


wow, this is the definition of ugly (0.00 / 0)
fucking sellouts...

[ Parent ]
"Temporary" Medicare buy-in (0.00 / 0)
Isn't the conventional wisdom that once you give people something, they'll make life hell for those who try to take it away?  If we start a Medicare buy-in how will people tolerate it ending?

Because those people will all end up in Medicare eventually (0.00 / 0)
You just stop letting people in early.

That assumes, of course, that it is still there. It continues to look like if that happens, in will be in spite of many Democrats, not because of them.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
If a 55 year old gets into Medicare (0.00 / 0)
and is then thrown out into the cold after four years when he's 59, you really think he's just gonna shrug and put up with it because in six years he'll be back in the system?

[ Parent ]
Not my point (0.00 / 0)
You just stop letting people in early.

Meaning you stop letting new people in early.  Those people could be grandfathered in, and that could easily have no impact long run.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
That still might get noticed (0.00 / 0)
Say I'm 51 and my buddy is 55 in 2010 or whenever this thing starts.  He gets on the Medicare buy-in and tells me how great it is every day, making me look forward to the day when I can get it.  On my 55th birthday in 2014, I eagerly jump to Medicare buy-in's website and - poof! - it's over!

So what, I'm just gonna shrug and take it?  "Oh I'll be on Medicare in 10 years anyway; I'll just work my ass off and try not to get sick in the meantime."  Yeah right.


[ Parent ]
If there is one thing that should be clear about American politics (0.00 / 0)
it's that just because people are getting screwed doesn't mean they can effectively mobilize to stop it.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
This whole temporary buy-out thing won't happen folks (0.00 / 0)
Bernie Saunders was just on Maddow and said while he prefered a single-payer system, the tradeoffs they gave for the PO will ultimately be better than the Opt-out or even the weak PO in the House bill. Also, coming out of negotiations, Rockefeller tonight said he had a smile on his face for a reason. Both those guys would not have that outlook if the medicare buy-in was a temporary thing to be taken away, which is infinitely worse than not having it at all.  

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