Double Standard: Some Dems will vote for cloture on Bernanke, but against final confirmation

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Jan 26, 2010 at 12:55


Ryan Grim is reporting that some Senate Democrats will vote in favor of Bernanke when 60 votes are required, and then against him when 51 votes are required.  Because your head hadn't exploded enough over the last week:

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) told reporters on Monday afternoon after a meeting with Bernanke that some opponents of the chairman had pledged to support him on the first vote, but not on the second.

"I know that there are some Democrats who have stated publicly that they are not going to vote ultimately for his nomination as chairman of the Fed. Many, not all, but many of these Senate Democrats have said that they won't stop us on procedural votes. So we may have their support on cloture but not on final passage," he said.

HuffPost asked Durbin why they'd make that commitment for Bernanke but not for health care.

"I don't know. That's a good question. They come up with different standards in terms of how they do things," Durbin replied.

The double standard at play here is that some Senators want to make it look like they opposed Bernanke, but don't actually intend to stop Bernanke.  By contrast, some of these same Senators will actually use the filibuster to block the public option, and don't want to make it just look like they are opposing the public option.

This is a good example of how some Senate Democrats use process issues, such as the filibuster, to make to appear like they are on your side, even when they are not:

  1. When they don't actually want to stop something the grassroots wants to stop, some will vote against final passage, but vote to invoke cloture.  They will claim "hey, I voted for change at the Fed," even though they sided with Bernanke on the most important vote--the one for cloture.

  2. Alternatively, when they want to oppose something progressives want, but don't want to make it appear like they opposed it, they will say "hey, there aren't 60 votes," without saying which votes are unavailable or batting an eyelash about the hypocrisy with the first bullet point.
Perhaps the most gratuitous example of this behavior was when 42 Senators voted against Samuel Alito's nomination for the Supreme Court--enough to block it--but only 25 voted to filibuster him.  A real profile in honesty.

This is a blow to our campaign to stop Ben Bernanke, but it also contains a ray of hope.  If the Democratic leadership is urging people who oppose Bernanke to vote to end the filibuster, then there very well might be over 40 opponents of Bernanke's nomination.  That would be enough to stop Bernanke, if these Democrats change their mind and filibuster.

Let's keep finding out where Senators stand:  keep whipping Senators on Bernanke today!  It's working--a reader told me this morning over email that Mark Begich had moved from "lean yes" to "we'll get back to you."

Chris Bowers :: Double Standard: Some Dems will vote for cloture on Bernanke, but against final confirmation

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Funny you have this up now .. (0.00 / 0)
I was just coming here to put this in QH ... nice to see you FP'ed it though .. I wonder what goodies they promised to someone like Durbin .. and it just goes to show you how sorry the Democrats really are

Hmm, I thought we are AGAINST the filibuster? (0.00 / 0)
And yet, you advocate using it to shoot Bernanke down? How can we blame rethuglicans for doing the same with all those other nominations, then?

Not to defend Bernanke, it looks as if Kohn at least wouldn't be worse, but I'm uneasy about pretending IOKIYAD now...


This is about the double-standard (4.00 / 2)
And if they are going to use it as a tool against us, as long as it is in place we should use it as a tool against them.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)
Maybe I'm a bit slow in the brain today, but right now it looks to me as if actually WE apply a double standard if we call for the Dem Senators to filibuster Bernanke...

I guess I will have to read what our other folks think about this, maybe their input will make this more clear to me.


[ Parent ]
Sorry Gray (4.00 / 1)
You can't play by the rules you wish we had, you play with the rules you have.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
Play by the rules... (0.00 / 0)
...until the rules are changed. There's nothing inconsistent about that. Advocating a change does not require that you self-impose it.

Look at it in a sports context -- imagine how stupid it would be if, for example, a football team advocated that it should take 12 yards to get a 1st down and unilaterally punted if they only moved the ball 11 yards. Or a baseball team advocating that two strikes should make an out and unilaterally implementing it on themselves.

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


[ Parent ]
Yeah, ok. (0.00 / 0)
But I still don't really like it. Smells dishonest. Would be better to get rid of the effing thing once and for all.

[ Parent ]
You can look at it as being (0.00 / 0)
two separate arguments:

(A) people shouldn't filibuster

(B) people shouldn't be able to filibuster

Filibustering while espousing (A) would be hypocritical, but filibustering while espousing (B) wouldn't necessarily be.

To be fair, both arguments have seen some play. Mostly, (A) is applied to conservative Democrats ("please don't filibuster our stuff!"), in which case it would indeed be hypocritical for progressives to turn around and then filibuster their stuff (unless it was revenge); (B) is applied to Republicans, viz. "it's ridiculous that you can stop everything with only 41 votes, that shouldn't be possible".


[ Parent ]
If they filibustr and we don't (4.00 / 2)
If they filibuster and we unilaterally disarm, then they need 51 for anything, while we need 60 for everything.

The goal is that everyone needs 60 for everything. When only Republicans have that ability, it isn't acceptable.


[ Parent ]
I understand this, Chris. (0.00 / 0)
And I'm not advocating going with a knife to a gunfight. But I think Deems still should only use the filibuster when it's necessary, on issues of paramount importance, because else this would make any attempt to kill the filibuster look very hypocritical. Is this such an issue, and is this necessary? Aren't there even ten Dem Senators willing to vote against Bernanke?

And what about this: "The goal is that everyone needs 60 for everything." Uh, not to get rid of the effing filibuster, even though empirical evidence shows its helping the GOP much morre than the Dems?


[ Parent ]
Semantics (4.00 / 1)
I think it's obvious that Chris is saying that if anyone needs 60, everyone should.  That's not inconsistent with thinking that also, 60 shouldn't be required for normal legislation and executive appointments, and working towards that.

In fact, we're probably in the situation we are in because Republicans perceive the Dems as unwilling to use the filibuster as egregiously as they have, so there is no downside for them.

Tim Wolfe


[ Parent ]
OK, I misread this. (0.00 / 0)
"if anyone needs 60, everyone should"
This makes sense, of course.

[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 2)
Which is why all the "you'll regret eliminating the filibuster when you're back in the minority!" arguments ring so hollow: Democrats, being Democrats, wouldn't actually use it. When only the other side has a gun, supporting disarmament for both sides should be a no brainer.

But, this being the Democrats, they don't do it. Their deepest-rooted instincts are to act against their own and their constituents' best interests, because they're Nice Guys (to their Republican colleagues), who need to posture and act Tough (against their friends). Republicans aren't so far off when they accuse them of being appeaseniks: the difference is in who they're appeasing.


[ Parent ]
It's about messaging (0.00 / 0)
Krugman wants Bernanke to get reconfirmed, but he still sees why this is bad: "I can hardly think of anything more calculated to solidify the view that Wall Street doesn't have to play by the rules that apply to everyone else."

Basically, the leadership and the Whitehouse are willing to push Senators to vote for cloture even without wanting to reconfirm Bernanke, but they never visibly lifted a finger to push Senators to vote for cloture even without wanting to pass health reform.


[ Parent ]
Wonder how this makes Dawn Johnsen... (4.00 / 7)
... and the TSA guy feel?  

Obama is a parody of himself.

John McCain won't insure children


I don't think there's necessarily double standards involved. (0.00 / 0)
While the Senate as a whole may end up looking like a hypocrite, at the level of the individual Senator, are any of:

Joseph Lieberman
Benjamin Nelson
Mary Landrieu
Blanche Lincoln

planning to vote for cloture on Bernanke but against him on the actual vote? That would be a (pleasant?) surprise, because I haven't heard of it. Those four were the ones threatening to filibuster the healthcare bill over their objections. But there's nothing inconsistent in their positions: when they don't like something (a public option, say), they (threaten to) vote against both cloture and the bill itself; when they do like something (Bernanke, or healthcare without a public option), they vote in favor on both.

Then there's another group of people who like to do the vote-splitting thing, but it's a different group from the one above. And it's quite telling that yet again, it's the conservatives who are willing to play hardball, and it's the progressives who have some kind of weird fetish for rolling over and being ineffective. It's not even like the healthcare bill where the underlying bill represents something they want, so they're not willing to sink it even if they don't get something else they want (a public option); they genuinely don't like Bernanke*, but they're still going to support him on cloture, because -- why? I don't get it.

* Unless, of course, it's just political posturing -- I'm not sure which is worse.


Because (0.00 / 0)
Progressives are more susceptible to pressure from leadership.

This is an instance where partisanship bites back -- when there's the rare possibility of a left-right populist alliance.  Progressives have been told that if they want the caucus to stand with them on anything, they sure as hell better stand with the caucus on something like cloture votes basically fueled by Republicans.  

That they will do so even though leadership has failed to get the caucus to hold together on those few things progressives had any hope for, says that there is still a failure to understand either tactics or strategy.  What makes those farther left more inclined to do what the leadership says (history, relationships, etc) might be interesting to explore but I think that's the short answer.

Tim Wolfe


[ Parent ]
Well, yeah. (0.00 / 0)
It's still basically the same thing. I'm sure leadership tried making the same request of conservatives, they just didn't get it granted. It's still a case of conservatives being willing to play hardball and buck leadership and vote against cloture, and progressives not being willing to do that.

Why that is, I'm not sure. Maybe leadership has more influence on election prospects in blue states than red ones, but that doesn't feel like the whole explanation. I think they're just nicer people who are willing do favors and take some hits for others (this generally goes along with being progressive). Except what they're really doing is betraying their constituents.


[ Parent ]
No, conservative Democrats have the political disadvantage here (0.00 / 0)
For one thing, they are almost always at greater risk of losing reelection to a Republican, since they almost always come from a more conservative state.  Ben Nelson is already at risk of losing to a Republican even after having been a conservative jackass this whole time (and I say let the dogs have him).

For another, conservatives are able to hold liberals hostage on the things they care about, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.  With health care there was a moral urgency to pass/do something.  Where is the urgency in confirming Bernanke?  If anything this seems to be more of an establishment and conservative want than a liberal one.  And it might mean that there could be some good deals to be had out of this.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, that's why I said "maybe". (0.00 / 0)
On the one hand, blue state dems are less electorally vulnerable and red state dems are more vulnerable. On the other hand, national Democratic leadership is more popular in blue states and less popular in red states, and their ability to affect outcomes depends to some degree on their popularity. (Heck, they'd probably have more leverage over someone like Nelson by threatening to support him as a solid liberal vote and Obama ally than by threatening not to.) So I honestly don't know which way it is.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the second paragraph. Obviously conservatives aren't taking any hostages wrt Bernanke; it would, however, be an opportunity for progressives to take some hostages (or just straight defeat him, which is, after all, what they want), but (unlike conservatives on healthcare) they aren't willing to take advantage of that opportunity. Which is the kind of asymmetry I was talking about.


[ Parent ]
Oh, I thought conservative/moderate Democrats wanted Bernanke (0.00 / 0)
I'm assuming they do; they're not against him, right?  Do they even care about him?  If liberals were to kill his confirmation would they care?

That's what I was saying - if conservatives care about his confirmation, liberals can trade votes for him in exchange for, say, support for a public option/Medicare buy-in.

As for the first point, I wonder if liberals (like Marcy Winograd and Jennifer Brunner) can do better in their races by distancing themselves from Obama, but from the left - that is, run as real principled liberals who will push for bold, liberal solutions, and openly criticize Obama as being too accommodating/centrist/corporatist.


[ Parent ]
When do we start playing the game at their level? (0.00 / 0)
I mean, seriously, they are wiping the floor with progressives with elementary "divide and rule" tactics.

That's beneath you.

It's time to seriously start mobilizing the things they are less prepared to counter;

1. left-right alliance - specifically: helping each other in primaries to hurt the corporatocracy

2. National strikes / embargoes

3. Constitutional Amendments in all 50 states, and a convention / summit of those who are sick of this shit: left, right, and center.

4. If we can get 40 anti-corporates in the senate we can filibuster until they

A: kill the filibuster

B: give us structural reforms

5: Resume / strengthen / broaden the "counter culture"

5. It's time to realize what George Carlin said so well:

"It's a big club, and you're not in it!"


Responsibility avoidance... (0.00 / 0)
Nothing bad ever happens because of Democrats.  It just has to be that way due to circumstances beyond their control.

But this doesn't just protect Democrats.  Republicans will still be allowed to be unanimously against Bernanke both having their cake and eating it too.

Republicans come out of this looking like the opposition voice of reform.


Krugman agrees: "this would send a terrible signal" (0.00 / 0)
I can hardly think of anything more calculated to solidify the view that Wall Street doesn't have to play by the rules that apply to everyone else.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...

USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox