GQR Poll: Dems suffer more from switches to GOP than from low turnout

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Jan 27, 2010 at 14:04


The January 7-11 poll from GQR had this important finding:


Democrats have lost 6% in the generic ballot from 2008 due to people switching from Democrats to Republicans, and have lost an additional 3% from projected lower Democratic turnout.  Even though this means there are about as many 2008 Democratic voters switching to Republicans as there are Democrats who are currently unlikely to vote in 2010.   Those who are switching to Republicans are causing twice as many problems because they are removing a vote from the Democratic column and adding one to the Republican column, while those deciding not to vote are just removing one from the Democratic problem.

The problem Democrats face from voters defecting to Republicans is exacerbated when one conducted a closer examination of the 2008 national congressional vote.  While GQR posits a 2008 Democratic victory of 53%-45%, the Green Papers shows that Democrats actually won by 53.18%--42.53%, or 9.65%.  This suggests that Democrats have lost even more than 6% to voters who have defected from Democrats to Republicans--possibly as much as 7-8%.

Additionally, as I wrote three weeks ago, some of the lower Democratic turnout is entirely natural, given lower turnout for youth voters in midterm elections:

Long-term data from the census bureau indicates that the turnout gap between Americans above and below the age of 45 widens significantly in mid-term elections.  For example, over the last nine Presidential elections, Americans aged 45-64 turned out, on average, at a rate 12.7% higher than Americans aged 25-44.  However, in mid-term elections, the average gap over the last nine cycles has been 17.1%.  Given that Obama won 55% of the vote among Americans aged 25-44, but only 50% of the vote among Americans aged 45-64, this "natural" turnout problem facing Democrats in mid-term elections also makes the specific problems they face in 2010 appear more pronounced than it actually is.  Midterms electorates are worse for Democrats than presidential electorates.

Altogether, this makes the problem of voters switching from Democrats to Republicans much worse than the problem of lower Democratic turnout.

This isn't to say that lower Democratic turnout isn't a problem, because it is.  Also, this isn't to say that Democrats will appeal to those voters who have currently moved over to the GOP will be brought back by centrism.  There is simply no evidence of that, and it is far more likely that improving economic conditions would do much more to bring them back into the fold than any abstract ideological maneuver.

What this data does indicate that it is wrongheaded to blame current Democratic electoral problems mainly on a failure to "excite the base."  Even if Democrats brought all 2008 voters back to the booths in 2010, they would still be facing significant losses.  To prevent any losses, they must hold together their entire 2008 coalition, which means bringing 2008 Democratic voters who are currently favoring Republicans back into the fold.  Short of a remarkable economic recovery that few economists are predicting, it is hard to imagine at this can be done in its entirety.  Democrats are in charge, things suck, and so they are inevitably going to lose voters both to apathy and to the opposition party.

Chris Bowers :: GQR Poll: Dems suffer more from switches to GOP than from low turnout

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All the polls in the world will not change one basic fact (0.00 / 0)
The 2008 coalition was created by a charismatic speaker and an energized base.  People voted for the first time.  People voted Democrat for the first time.  All because they wanted change.  Change wasn't delivered.  In fact, it was thwarted by the charismatic speaker and his people.   Perhaps the polls are just saying that we can't win again with these people?

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


Also we won in 2008 so why (0.00 / 0)
use that standard?  

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[ Parent ]
Perhaps I should clarify my poor grammatical phrasing (0.00 / 0)
I ended with, "with these people?"  I should have said, "with these candidates?"  Perhaps that does or doesn't make a difference to my meaning.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
2008 says nothing about Massachusetts which (4.00 / 1)
was in 2009.  In Massachusetts nonvoters made a bigger difference than people switching the republicans.  Also the people who switched to the republicans thought the government wasn't doing enough and wanted public option, not mandates.

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I don't quite get these numbers. (0.00 / 0)
Turnout in recent presidential years has been around 60%.  Turnout in recent non-presidential years has been around 40%.  So at least 1/3 of gettable Democratic voters are likely to sit out 2010, based on historical trends.

On the other hand, turnout has been increasing over the last several cycles in general, so those voters are becoming more and more gettable.

3% is apparently a differential D-R turnout prediction based on a pollster's model--and I don't necessarily think I would call that a "finding" at all, much less an "important" one.  I say that because turnout models have been all over the place in recent years, and conclusions based on them have been consistently more propagandistic than informative.

Reading over the linked article, which is very interesting, I'm mystified as to why this struck you as the most important thing to highlight.


How do label changes how you understand the dynamic? (4.00 / 1)
When you say people switched- how does this explain why they support the Public Option or have a problem with Bank bailouts or any number of other policies that actually affect their lives.

From what I can tell, you use party, identity politics and label ideological (rather than substantive) indicators. It is like when you discuss identity politics as a proxy for Democrats.  What I would like to know, and what would be useful to anyone trying to gauge the mood of the country past any given single election cycle is what does it all mean?

My guess is that if we continue to see this sort of analysis as the basis for what DC does is that we will continue to see a yo-yo'ing between the two parties because neither is really functionally responding to the voters.  


Practical examples (4.00 / 1)
Oregon passing tax increases on the wealthy and corporations:

http://mydd.com/2010/1/27/more...

How does a state that has not raised tax in this way since the 1930s jive with your argument regarding party labels?

For that matter, how does MA jive with your arguments?  To buy your position to me , it would require we believe that MA is suddenly what? Much more conservative?


I think this dependence on polling only leads us deeper (0.00 / 0)
Into the problem we already have.   Most polling is there for the purpose of allowing a candidate to tailor his message to fit the narrow needs of just enough people to win.  The difference between the right and the left is that the right never allows the facts (e.g., polling) to get into the way of their message.  A good many on the left got this before 1/19.  Some on the left are still just trying to find some help to maintain the status quo.  The bottom line is that Mass voted against a Democrat at least partly because they are fed up with this administration.  If Coakley lost partly because she was a bad candidate, well, that explains why it was such a thorough trashing.  Democrats can't finesse their way out of the mess we are in with a fancy speech or gimmicky policy.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
Polling can be helpful understanding why (0.00 / 0)
something happened if it is specific enough. For example, a poll saying voters wanted to vote for the Republican is not as helpful as a poll that says voters wanted to vote for the Republican because they were disappointed that the Democrats are failing to pass the public option. The ballot alone does not provide this insight. Polling can be as a crude an instrument as the ballot box.

Now, this does not mean that Democrats should not lead and persuade. It means whether the issue is a matter of leading and persuading on a policy or whether it is simply DC playing games. For example, reading the polls lets us know it is not that the American people did not want the PO. It is that the Dems didn't want it.


[ Parent ]
If you define the D base as NEVER voting Republican (4.00 / 1)
come hell or high water, then this makes sense:

What this data does indicate that it is wrongheaded to blame current Democratic electoral problems mainly on a failure to "excite the base."

However, what if you define the D base as voting for Democrats most of the time, unless they're disgusted enough that they want to send the Democrats a message?

Is there a widely accepted definition of the word "base"?

BTW, I heard Thom Hartmann say that union members were locking arms with teabaggers and chanting against the Democrats' wonderful health care plan. If those union members averaged casting 95% Democratic votes, are they members of the base, or not? If they are members of the base, they're "excited" members of that base, all right - but against the Democrats.

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Bah! (4.00 / 2)
A lot of Republicans became Democrats under FDR because they (rightfully) perceived him instituting policies that lifted them out of the poverty of the Depression. Just as many Democrats switched to Republican under Reagan because they believed him to be championing the (albeit, white) working man. Policy and performance (and lack thereof) drives party identification. If Obama came to office pushing Keynsian economic policies and programs, we would be looking at Democratic super-majorities instead of wringing our hands over possible major losses.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

To further follow up on this point. (0.00 / 0)
Your average voter is non-ideological, insofar as his loyalty to an ideology is concerned. Many independents who voted for Obama in 2008 voted for Brown in MA two years later. Southern, big-government, "New Deal" Democrats switched to the Republican Party in the 6o's, not because they suddenly wanted to become small-government/no tax zealots, but because they opposed the Civil Rights Act, etc. People parrot ideological talking points, but will switch to the other side when they feel the other side is best taking care of whatever over-riding interest they see as essential to them.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
What is stupid about this post (4.00 / 2)
and a number like it is that it does not evaluate what is gained and what is lost by following alternate strategies. Obama's center-right positioning keeps some of the base at home (and he also managed to bleed independents...some didn't like Obama policy, some didn't like indecision and inaction). If he followed a more progressive policy he would have excited base and probably lost some independents...BUT HE WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE POLITICAL DISCUSSION IN THIS COUNTRY. Now the country has moved right, right-wing narrative has been reinforced, nothing was done AND as a bonus Obama AND the Dems are bleeding support from all sides. These regular polling reports detach the temperament of the populace from the context .

You have identified the problem (0.00 / 0)
Unfortunately, the resistance you will get with this point of view is that the most likely solution to the problem will require at least another ten to fifteen years and another 8 years of GOP leadership.  Unless this President does an about face and fires more than a few of his inner circle, we have to outlive the very negative image he has left with young voters.  Or at least let them see how bad life can get under Republican governance.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
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