Illinois Senate: Can Giannoulias be stopped?

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 16:47


Tuesday's Illinois primary has suddenly become a big deal for Democrats nationally.

As David Sirota wrote yesterday on Open Left, Alexis Giannoulias, the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination for U.S. Senate in the Illinois primary, is now deeply embroiled in a banking scandal.  Here is the gist of the story:

Broadway Bank, the troubled Chicago lender owned by the family of Illinois Treasurer and U.S. Senate candidate Alexi Giannoulias, has entered into a consent order with banking regulators requiring it to raise tens of millions in capital, stop paying dividends to the family without regulatory approval, and hire an outside party to evaluate the bank's senior management.

The Jan. 26 consent order with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. and the Illinois Division of Banking comes less than a week before Mr. Giannoulias - Broadway's chief lender and then vice-president from 2002 to 2006 - must face voters in the Democratic primary for the Senate seat previously held by President Barack Obama.

The story broke on January 26th, the day after both PPP and Rasmussen completed their polls on the campaign.  As such, any polls showing Giannoulias performing better in the general election than his two main rivals, David Hoffman and Cheryle Jackson, are now out of date.

Being caught in a banking scandal is always bad.  Being caught in one during this political environment is practically a death sentence to a campaign.  If Giannoulias were to win the primary, Democrats would be extremely hard pressed to keep the seat in November.  Even worse, having a prominent Senate candidate--the Democratic nominee for President Obama's old seat--personally involved in a banking scandal like this could hurt Democratic chances in many other elections, too.

So, is there any chance  Illinois Democrats will make the right move, and nominate either Jackson or Hoffman?  Actually, the odds seem pretty good, especially for Hoffman.  Here are all public polls on the campaign since early December:

Illinois Senate, Democratic primary polling
Poll Date Undecided Giannoulias Jackson Hoffman
Rasmussen Jan 25 24% 31% 23% 23%
PPP Jan 24 27% 32% 18% 20%
Tribune Jan 18 26% 34% 19% 16%
Tribune Dec 05 40% 31% 17% 9%
Since December, Giannoulias has effectively picked up no undecided voters.  At the same time, Jackson has gained 3%, while Hoffman has surged 11%.

Even before the banking scandal hit, Giannoulias was not picking up any new support.  Now, with Hoffman (and, to a such lesser extent, Jackson) apparently surging, and with the banking scandal in play, it is hard to see how Giannoulias picks up any of the remaining undecided support.  With 25% of the electorate still undecided, this should be enough for Hoffman to win.

Hopefully, the banking scandal will boost the current pro-Hoffman trend.  If Jackson wins, that's fine too.  The worry is if Illinois Democrats either ignore this scandal, or give Giannoulias a sympathy vote for being targeted (that has happened in another big Dem machine town, Philadelphia, before). If they do, this Senate seat is probably GOP.  Many others will become easier GOP pickups, too.

Chris Bowers :: Illinois Senate: Can Giannoulias be stopped?

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Illinois Senate: Can Giannoulias be stopped? | 101 comments
Giannoulias/Hoffman (0.00 / 0)
you folks have to get over your love affair with Hoffman, he's a right wing toad in a left-lean state. If you gotta freak out about Alexi, go with the Jackson, she ain't great, but she ain't as worthless as Hoffman.
That's actually helpful... (0.00 / 0)
Obviously he doesn't sound that way when answering the newspaper questionnaires, but do you have a link to more info about the candidates (like Hoffman)?
[ Parent ]
Here is a link (0.00 / 0)
to the most in-depth questionairre you will probably ever read:

http://www.iviipo.org/2010Cand...

IVI-IPO is a long-time progressive good-government group that has declined a bit over the last decade but still has the best questionaire around.

Unfortunatly questionaires are not available for either Jackson or Giannoulias. Jackson's campaign turned hers in too late and Giannoulias, on the poor advice of his campaign manager, did not participate in the endorsement session.

But really, the last minute freak-out is a bit much. 99% of the information you all are talking about has been out there for months ... it is odd.  And there really is almost nothing that can be done at this point.

[ Parent ]
Nothing in there indicates that he's a "right-wing toad" (0.00 / 0)
And I wouldn't expect it to, considering this is a questionnaire for the Democratic Primary.  Can someone point me to something indicating that he's a "right-wing toad"?  Pretty much everything in that questionnaire is more or less what you'd expect from a "progressive" candidate.
[ Parent ]
Hoffman is a liebercrat (0.00 / 0)
He's campaigning against letting the Bush tax cuts expire in a Democratic primary and he loves free trade. He's another clueless prosecutor who cannot connect with working class voters just like Coakley, which is what makes this whole post so ironic.

He's been reduced at Democratic party events to plead in his stump speech that he's a democrat, really he is.  

[ Parent ]
Seriously (0.00 / 0)
This has been greeted by the bloodthirsty Chicago media with a collective yawn. You'd think if there was anything scandalous about a bank giannoulias hasn't been associated with since 2006 having financial troubles that they would pounce on it. The Tribune hates Democrats and the TV stations love to cover scandal.  
[ Parent ]
Of course... (4.00 / 2)
PPP just released a poll showing Giannoulias as the only one actually polling quite well against Kirk. Hoffman actually graduated from my High School (much earlier than me), though that doesn't necessarily endear me to him any more. I think Jackson would get killed in the GE because of Blago ties, so my choice is between Giannoulias and Hoffman basically.  I'm still undecided on the race to be honest. I'm not sure how bad the banking scandal actually is, though it'll obviously be used by Kirk in the GE and obviously anything related to "banking" is probably bad in general.
Blago ties (0.00 / 0)
Is there really anything more to Jackson's "ties" to Blagojevich, other than that she worked for him?  I mean, are we really going to dismiss everyone who ever worked for Blago just because they worked for him?  Unless you can point to something that shows Jackson actually colluded with Blago in whatever deplorable act, this seems like weak tea guilt-by-association.
[ Parent ]
No.. (4.00 / 1)
But being his spokesman is different than, say, sharing a "D".
[ Parent ]
So she was his mouthpiece... and? (0.00 / 0)
Did she actually help him or was any way involved with his evildoing?

If the best they've got is that she read Rod's lines for him during his scandals, that seems pretty weak.

And if Scott McClellan can turn around and publicly rebuke GWB after serving as his spokesman, why can't Jackson do the same?

[ Parent ]
Please... (0.00 / 0)
Like that matters.

People want Blago to go away... whoever wins the primary will probably still have to deal with some kind of Blago tie here or there (as they do still share the "D" with him), but how much easier do we need to make it for Kirk to pull a barrage of video clips showing her with him, or defending him, or whatever.

And what the hell does Scott McClellan have to do with anything?  Did he win a Senate race I'm unaware of?  I'm sure he'd have problems if he actually ran for elective office too.  I sure as hell wouldn't vote for him.

[ Parent ]
This is mindless guilt by association (0.00 / 0)
So I suppose everyone who's ever worked for Blago is a nonstarter?  What about people who've worked for other politicians caught in scandal or are unpopular, like Bill Clinton and George W. Bush?  Apparently they still get a pass, as the entire neoliberal Clintonista team has rooted themselves in the Obama administration, and GWB's budget director Rob Portman is running (and leading) in the OH Senate race.

But no, we shouldn't run anyone who's ever been within 10 feet of Blago, since that must mean that they're just as dirty and evil as Blago.  Even if they're, um, not.

[ Parent ]
Clinton is still popular... (0.00 / 0)
And I'd prefer no one from Bush continue to work for Obama, yeah.
[ Parent ]
Actually you touched on the problem (4.00 / 1)
-- she did NOT repudiate him.  When she first announced her candidacy she was asked about her time in the Blago administration and she said she had choosen to leave after three years because of all the "infighting."  That was her term -- "infighting."  

If she had come out from day one with a strong statement against his actions, or better yet had offered up from her own personal knowledge insights on cleaning up his mess, it would have been a whole different ball game. She could have potentially even turned her association with him into an asset. But she did not do that.

Plus she ran a really weak, dissorganized campaign in general so what assets she has were largely lost.

[ Parent ]
I don't know how much nationwide spillover there would really be. (0.00 / 0)
Only political junkies with solid opinions would be likely to ever hear much about Giannoulias outside of Illinois.

Locally, though, there would be significant collateral damage.  House races in Illinois would certainly be affected.  That's IL-10, Kirk's old seat, and IL-11, Debbie Halvorson's seat, and IL-14, Bill Foster's seat.  IL-Gov would be affected too.  

There could conceivably be some spillover into states that share a media market with Illinois.  That would be Iowa-Sen and MO-Sen, mostly.  So there would certainly be very significant local consequences, in addition to losing the Senate seat, and the painful post-election story of having lost Obama's senate seat.  

I don't think you need to argue that Giannoulias will endanger Senate candidates nationwide to get people to understand the danger here.

IN-Sen too (0.00 / 0)
But a loss there would be good for us.

Maybe WI-Sen too; hopefully there won't be a race there.

[ Parent ]
It won't be a race in WI. (0.00 / 0)
A contact of mine who is closely involved in WI politics has it confirmed that Tommy Thompson won't run.
[ Parent ]
i'm not sure (0.00 / 0)
this is true. Gio has been battered by this news few over a year now and he continues to lead in both the primary and the general.

I don't get it but it is IL. Seems we look past the corruption as long as the politician is doing good things for us...  

[ Parent ]
The 'real' campaign slinging match hasn't started yet... (0.00 / 0)
There are many 'independent' undecided -- that's where the problem is...   The dem consultants knew/know this!
[ Parent ]
Are there actual policy differences between the three Democratic candidates? (0.00 / 0)

Their response to the troop escalation (0.00 / 0)
in Afghanistan is one difference.  Alexi supported Obama, Hoffman was "skeptical" and Cheryle Jackson said:

I respect and support President Obama but I disagree with the decision to commit more troops and resources to Afghanistan.  It is time to take care of America again and time to bring our troops home. Until we stop spending hundreds of billions on wars, we will not have the focus or money to solve the challenges we face at home.

You can read the full quotes here:
http://www.progressillinois.co...

And I know that Cheryle's connection's to Blago seem slim but I can just see the ads now -- they would be a death knell here in Illinois.

[ Parent ]
What would those ads say? (0.00 / 0)
"Cheryle Jackson worked for Rod Blagojevich... the man the voters of Illinois elected twice!"

I don't understand what kind of angle they'd use.  If Jackson runs a strong campaign she can deflect those ads.  And while it's not a causal relationship, more liberal candidates seem to run stronger, feistier campaigns.

[ Parent ]
Remind me (0.00 / 0)
not to hire you to write attack ads. :-)
[ Parent ]
That was the point (0.00 / 0)
That they're not gonna be able to get anything to stick.  Of course, I could write a mean attack ad if I really wanted to. :)
[ Parent ]
the ads would just have her (0.00 / 0)
talking about how great Blago is. talking about how Blago did no wrong. talking about how she loves herself some blago.

you don't even have to write copy for them.

[ Parent ]
Were these videos before or after Blago's big scandal in late 2008? (4.00 / 1)
Cuz as I recall people tolerated Blago enough to let him stay in office before then.

I mean, c'mon, I'm sure there's a video out there with Giannoulias also praising Blago.  I'm sure every Democrat in IL politics has said something good about Blago at some point.

Also, no one bothered to tell me that Jackson was no longer his spokeswoman by the time Senate seat-gate happened.  This would make a huge difference, would it not, as Jackson no longer had to defend his sorry ass as part of her job.  Of course, he's had scandals before and she may have had to defend him then, but those scandals were obviously nothing like The Big One, since Blago was still able to get reelected in 2006 (presumably with establishment Democratic support and even praise, which might even be on tape).

Now if she still said complimentary things about Blago AFTER The Big One, that's a different story.  Did that happen?

[ Parent ]
haha (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Perverted Priorities Indeed (0.00 / 0)
We have a president who is dropping bombs on families in Central Asia. Surely this action (amoung many others, like torture a Bagram) is one or two stops worse than a banking scandal in a Senate election? Yet Giannoulias is made out arch enemy of progressive values in US politics.
Who makes him an "arch enemy of progressive values" here? (0.00 / 0)
Afaics our folks are concerned that he has too many corpses in the cellar to be electable. It's not his political stance that is the core of the concerns, but his resume. He'll never make it against Kirk. Rethuglican muslinging will bury him.
[ Parent ]
re: mudslinging (0.00 / 0)
you are talkin' electability?

my feeling is hoffman chances against kirk are much much smaller than those of the other two. hoffman doesn't have a chance against kirk.

[ Parent ]
what's your point? (0.00 / 0)
You seem to be implying Open Left frontpagers don't criticize the President, which is simply false.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.
[ Parent ]
Kirk's C-Span interview (0.00 / 0)
I have already cast my vote for U.S. Senator, so this banking scandal news doesn't mean much to me. With three days remaining before the polls open, perhaps some other scandals are still to emerge!

What really bothered me was when, right after the SOTU speech, Peter Slen (C-Span anchor) asked Kirk about the race, and Kirk responded by quoting his "chat" with some Afghanistani politician who thought Illinois' politics was much worse than theirs! Of course, Kirk is going to ignore the dirty work of former Gov. George Ryan (who is now in prison) as the days go on, but we Illinois Democrats will not.

"...Hoffman can pull it out..." Huh? Eyes Widen (0.00 / 0)
Oki doka... what do we really know about Hoffman?  

However, what we do know is both AFL-CIO and Planned Parenthood is endorsing our establishment bank scandal tinged political neophyte Giannoulias, [against KIRK!] -- and Hoffman's response from those endorsement were IMO particularly evasive [flags people flags]...

http://www.progressillinois.co...

Chris, I expected more from you.

Don't forget the Sierra Club and Democratic County Chair's Association (0.00 / 0)
They endorsed, too. Giannoulias was the only candidate on the ballot the chairs endorsed, it takes a super majority.

But then again, what would a supermajority of party chairmen in red suburban and rural counties know about who could get votes in their counties compared to Bowers and Sirota?  

[ Parent ]
Your Point? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
For all I know they are rural hicks voting who they are told to vote? (0.00 / 0)
Give me some political context -- who are these guys and gals?  How... were did they can their candidate profiles etc?
[ Parent ]
argh. pressed post too soon. (0.00 / 0)
How and where did they get their candidate profiles from etc... What even are their profiles etc... with all the nepotism and cronyism in politics.
[ Parent ]
When there isn't a consensus on what to do (0.00 / 0)
it becomes a crap shoot. At this point any of them appear to be able to win.

It's not just local progressives who have no clue what to do here, but it is the electorate as well. This one goes down to the wire.

And national players will have no real effect!

All we can do is just sit back and watch the chips (dice) fall where they will.

I'm voting Jackson since all votes will count and any of them can or not beat Kirk. Might as well vote progressive principles here.

imho

Jeff Wegerson

Do you feel that Jackson is the most progressive of the Democratic candidates? (0.00 / 0)
And if so, how? (Besides Afghanistan, which is mentioned in an earlier comment.)
[ Parent ]
Woman and Black (0.00 / 0)
Like Clinton and Obama and Thatcher and Burris and Thomas. Ooopps. I guess being a woman and black is no guarantee of progressiveness.

Jeff Wegerson
[ Parent ]
"any of them appear to be able to win" the primary! (0.00 / 0)
But the concerns are about the general election. And Alexis' many weaknesses will make him a much too easy target for the rehtuglicans. The mudslinging will stop him dead in his tracks. He'll be coveerd in crap an never be able to build up any momentum.
[ Parent ]
re: general (0.00 / 0)
hoffman doesn't have a chance

you don't like gianoulias?

ok, support brunner in OH. don't waste your time with hoffman

[ Parent ]
"hoffman doesn't have a chance" Where did you get that idea? (0.00 / 0)
About 6% behind Kirk, this early in the campaign, doesn't look like no chance.
[ Parent ]
that's my opinion (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Hoffman (0.00 / 0)
"...From 1990-1992, he worked for Senator David L. Boren (D-OK) as press secretary and legislative assistant..."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/fa...

"...Boren one of only two Democrats to vote for the Bork SCOTUS nomination..."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Wonder what other ideological secrets came out in Hoffman's interview with Boren?

Jesus.

Not sure that means a whole lot... (4.00 / 1)
People take a lot of different kinds of jobs.. I know liberals who have clerked for conservative judges, for instance.  That might be a bit different actually, but there's probably people all over the place who take jobs for people that are more liberal/conservative than they are.  Mike Lux worked in Clinton's admin, which passed NAFTA, DADT, etc... I don't think that means he necessarily supports those things.
[ Parent ]
hoffman clerked for rehnquist (0.00 / 0)
but he also called him "the smartest man I know." yeah, his bush vs. gore vote was brilliant...

Those who know him say Rehnquist, who was nominated to the high court in 1971 by President Nixon, is well-suited to preside over the trial.

"He is the smartest man I know. I think he would be a very fair judge," said assistant U.S. Attorney David Hoffman, a University of Chicago law school graduate who clerked for Rehnquist in 1996 and 1997. Rehnquist, 74, is no stranger to partisan politics and controversy. He encountered them at his original confirmation hearing and again in 1986 when President Reagan nominated him ...

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P...
[ Parent ]
And Aravasis worked for Ted Stveens (R Alaska)! (0.00 / 0)
And then, as I already pointed out in the last thread, Jeff Bleich, friend of Obama, and new US ambassador to Austalia, also worked for Rehnquist (who allegedly had no problems with hiring clerks fom th otheer side of the aisle)!

So, really, TBH, what's your point? That having worked for a conservative Supreme Court judge once is on the same level of scandalous as having been a bank VP responsible for several multi million credits to criminals? Come on!

[ Parent ]
who gives a damn what aravosis says? (0.00 / 0)
aravosis isn't a candidate for il-sen, hoffman is, I'm talking about hoffman, I don't give a damn about aravosis in this particular discussion

my point is hoffman called rehnquist "the smartest guy I know"

if you don't know senators vote for supreme court justices, we don't need votes for rehnquist guys

[ Parent ]
Aravosis attacked Hoffman for clerking for Rehnquist. (0.00 / 0)
And that's quite rich, considering John's resume. I thought you saw that story, it was linked here recently.

As for "the smartest guy I know" - well, that's possible, I understand most Supremes are pretty smart. The problem isn't intelligence, but if they let their ideology distort their judgment, of course. I don't think calling somebody "smart" is an enthusiastic endorsement of his actions. Apples and oranges.

[ Parent ]
I said I don't give a damn about aravosis here (0.00 / 0)
we are talking about hoffman, the subject is hoffman
[ Parent ]
Sorry I haven't know any 'real' liberals that have taken jobs with (0.00 / 0)
Bork type ideologues, and continued the vein by going with right-wing conservative judges.

Sorry ain't that low-info and dumb.

[ Parent ]
known (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Not low-info and dumb... (0.00 / 0)
Maybe not my favorite thing, but sometimes people do things for the experience.  The Rehnquist quote above is a bit more revealing... this "He worked for a crappy Democratic Senator" means little to me.
[ Parent ]
The field would have been competitve ... Boren would have vetted him! (0.00 / 0)
...and somehow I don't think a liberal or progressive, or a public option democrat would waste his/her time sending their resume to the likes of Boren et. al on the list.
[ Parent ]
The Bork nomination was in 1987! (4.00 / 1)
So, what the FUCK has this to do with Hoffman, who start to work for Dem Senator Boren 3 years later?

Where did you pull that crappy argument from? Oh, no, don't tell us, it's obvious...

[ Parent ]
Yep -- It is bloody OBVIOUS. (0.00 / 0)
AGAIN, As Hoffman would have been vetted, interviewed for those jobs -- his ideological stance would also have been questioned.  Also, having known quite a few liberal progressive democrats that have gone into pub. admin and politics from uni. etc. I know they wouldn't have been putting their resume, accepting a job with a v. conservative OK democrat, and then continue their career to work for people that infuse themselves with federalist society ideals.  You may want to stick your head in sand and take the chance of putting another fascist anti-choice thug into the US Senate -- I don't

Grow Up -- and live in the real world.

[ Parent ]
and yes... I know he answered the PP questionnaire. (0.00 / 0)
However, I'm more interested who is backing him?  Where is backing/money coming from -- no one seems to have answered me that?  Have we another Chris Carney on our hands.

[ Parent ]
And if this is the same David Hoffman in Chicago? (0.00 / 0)
He gave the guy some campaign contributions in 2004...?

http://newsmeat.com/fec/bystat...

Wonder who else this guy has given money to?

[ Parent ]
it can't be (0.00 / 0)
this guy gave money to lieberman and  mark kirk
[ Parent ]
This was a general search as I'm not sure of Hoffman's Zipcode... (0.00 / 0)
or business affliations -- The Hoffman that gave to Lieberman has him down as a Homebuilder -- not sure if Hoffman has ever been involved in a Homebuilding business?

Also, I saw a David H Hoffman, but I don't think our Hoffman has ever worked for DNR International, but for a IL, Chicago Hoffman to give money to a OK Democrat -- now that I found interesting.

Again, this was a general search, but I'm sure people in Giannoulias's campaign should have access to this type of info?  Where are they I ask?

[ Parent ]
Why don't you simply look up his zip code, to avoid misunderstandings? (0.00 / 0)
"Hoffman lives in the Wicker Park neighborhood of Chicago"
http://www.hoffmanforillinois....

Zip codes for Wicker Park: 60622, 60647, 60614
http://www1.chicagoreader.com/...

Problem solved. Not the guy who donated to Kirk or Lieberman.  

[ Parent ]
So you know he lived in those zipcodes in 2004? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
YES! I have the power of google at my fingertips! (0.00 / 0)
"1336 N. Hoyne Avenue David Hoffman Wicker Park - $1,040,000
Oct. 31, 2002 Bank-owned Sale"
http://chicago.blockshopper.co...

See? 2002! And if you follown the link (follow the money! :D), you'll see he still owns that house.

[ Parent ]
Also... if he does have outside business connections etc... (0.00 / 0)
...not a 100% sure, but I believe donors can give money and tag it to their business address zipcode?
[ Parent ]
misunderstanding? (0.00 / 0)
I don't see what was the mis in my "understanding"
[ Parent ]
Then this was my misunderstanding... (0.00 / 0)
..of your intentions!
:D
Sry.
[ Parent ]
Also... with the Boren contribution -- [I guess this is the son of the Senator] (0.00 / 0)
The Hoffman giving Boren money does live in zipcode 60622

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...


[ Parent ]
Certainly not a progressive, indeed. (0.00 / 0)
And I'm not under any illusions that Hoffman is one. All I'm saying is that imho Giannoulias would be a horrible mistake as a candidate. And that not too much should be interpreted into Hoffman clerking for Rehnquist in the 90s.  
[ Parent ]
IMO -- Hoffman would be far far worse than Giannoulias (0.00 / 0)
If Giannoulias is going to win against Kirk then good luck to him -- as he's to have to pull a real big rose from his butt to pull it off.

But putting that aside -- my real beef is about the process of elimination and the rise of the nomination of Giannoulias by the Chicago based Democratic 'establishment' - not about the Hoffman spoiler -- who would be more suited to a senate seat in OK.

That's where I think the real story and sleeze is.  A Democratic party paving the way for a Kirk win...  Out of all the experienced, 'progressive' legislators they came up with Giannoulias to match Kirk.  It stinks.

[ Parent ]
The question is, if Hoffman would be worse than Kirk. (0.00 / 0)
Giannoulias doesn't have a chance. So, it's Hoffman or Jackson. As I understand it, both not really convicing candidates, from the progrssive view. So, the question should be, are they still better than Kirk?

"It stinks." Sure. But then, it's Chicago, right? The stink seems to be a traditional part of the political landscape there.

[ Parent ]
"... if Hoffman would be worse than Kirk..." (0.00 / 0)
... that's a damn good question -- so why don't you think on that a minute -- how, why and who is putting us that in that position?
[ Parent ]
STTEG, would that change aqnything? (0.00 / 0)
Obviously, the Chicago political machine is the horror. However, how can that be changed, at least in the long run? Any idea?
[ Parent ]
Well first step -- sunlight is always the best infectant. (0.00 / 0)
It's good to know that people are finally figuring out the consequences of Obama booting Dean out to the party.  Once people get that, then hopefully some changes can be made -- if it's not too late.  Howie Klein, Jane Hamsher, and David Swanson are the people IMHO know what is going on, and will tell you -- and will back it up.  Kos, Josh Marshall and quite a few others also know but they won't tell you.
[ Parent ]
Thanks! Hoffman supporting the likes of Boren (0.00 / 0)
and his political views -- I was right -- I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue...

[ Parent ]
So, for you it's Jackson, or bust? (0.00 / 0)
Also, pls see the positive side of Boren: He didn't endorse Obama! Seems to be a guy with a good judgment.
:D
(only joking, don't flame me)
[ Parent ]
Boren's Judgement...! No he didn't endorse Obama -- and why? (0.00 / 0)
Democratic Rep. Boren Won't Endorse Obama

Calling him "the most liberal senator" in Congress, Democratic Rep. Dan Boren of Oklahoma told the Associated Press on Tuesday that he won't endorse the presumptive Democratic nominee.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2...

Well, we can all see where you are coming from.

[ Parent ]
Oops. Not exactly good judgment. (0.00 / 0)
Quite to the contrary. "the most liberal senator"? That's ridiculous.
[ Parent ]
hoffman advocates tort reform and shopping across state lines for health insurance (0.00 / 0)
no thank you, we don't need to allow health insurance companies to shop for the state with the least regulation, we need a national plan

nor are these companies saints to take away from people the right to seek grievances via the judicial system

In talking about health care, not many Democrats endorse removing the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies and allowing them to compete across state lines to ultimately reduce costs. Hoffman does. Not many Democrats or trial attorneys favor tort reform as it pertains to the practice of medicine. Hoffman does. He gives Democrats a "D" on transparency in their conduct of the health care debate, doubts some of their cost-control claims, and says he'd demand better.

Many a Democrat falls back on that tired "free but fair trade" line, but while Hoffman aspires to that as well, he describes himself as a "pro-growth, fiscally moderate Democrat" who wouldn't turn back the clock on previous trade agreements, working instead to tighten up enforcement and start to work on new, better ones. He also talks of appealing to the "economic patriotism" of U.S. corporations.

http://www.pjstar.com/opinions...
He also says he supports the public option... (0.00 / 0)
And I thought removing the anti-trust exemption was something Dems supported?  When did that change?

In any case, no perfect candidate in this race... Not even close. Still no clue who I'm voting for.

[ Parent ]
re: antitrust (0.00 / 0)
When did that change?

nowhere, I argued against the right-wing tort-reform BS

[ Parent ]
correction (0.00 / 0)
nowhere, I argued against the right-wing tort-reform BS

forgot the 'shopping across state lines' thing

so,

nowhere, I argued against the right-wing tort-reform  and  'shopping across state lines' thing BS

I don't want to give the impression I'm trying to avoid my own arguments

[ Parent ]
Yeah -- you can trust him --- me nah thanks... (0.00 / 0)
Er... Hoffman is far far far from perfect esp. when a Senator will be voting in Supreme Judges...  

As you like him so much do you know who's funding him?

[ Parent ]
"shopping across state lines for health insurance" What's wrong with that? (0.00 / 0)
Sounds like a good idea to me. Many states are too small as a market, so opening this up for the customers gives them much more choices. It's not as good as a public option, but it's better than the status quo, where there are de facto monopolies in many states!
[ Parent ]
Differences in state regulation of insurance (0.00 / 0)
means that if we allow insurance sales across state lines, insurance companies will simply rush to headquarter themselves in whatever state has the easiest regulations (and henceforth that state's politicians will be completely captured by the insurance lobby and never be able to increase those regulations).  From there, every insurance policy sold in the country will be the bare minimum, as allowed by the HQ state's laws.

And it won't increase competition.  The health insurance market simply doesn't lend itself to thriving competition.  If anything, it'll decrease the amount of choices consumers have, since each insurance company can just offer one national plan, and consumers don't even have the option of moving to a state with better regulations.

[ Parent ]
You're aware that the House bill comes with regulations... (0.00 / 0)
to addreess that problem? Even Obama mentioned that in his "confontation" with the rethuglicans!

"The health insurance market simply doesn't lend itself to thriving competition."
That market is far from an ideal one, because of the intransparency of the offers, and the highly emotional side of the product, but larger states with several insurers show that competition is possible.

" If anything, it'll decrease the amount of choices consumers have, since each insurance company can just offer one national plan"
No. Consumers in small states will have a choice for the very first time! And how many insurers are there nationally? Enough to provide more than sufficient choice!

[ Parent ]
What regulations? (0.00 / 0)
Are you talking about ones that set minimum standards for insurance policies?  If so, then yeah, maybe, but I was assuming that we were working from the status quo, where the House bill has not been passed into law.
[ Parent ]
Yes, minimum standards. that's how I understood it from the news (0.00 / 0)
And the idea behind that is, of course, to create a reasonable standard so that insurers can't simply create their plans according to the "rules" of the state with the most insurer friendly laws, undermining all other states' efforts. Imho a nation standard plan, regulated by the government, is essential for making the private insurance market at least a bit more transparent and working for th customer, as long as there is no public option that gives thee people a better choice.

I am assuming we're talking about a compromise bill created in reconciliation, of course. Afaics the Senate bill will never pass the House.

[ Parent ]
hoffman (0.00 / 0)
So, is there any chance  Illinois Democrats will make the right move, and nominate either Jackson or Hoffman?

I never thought I'd see the day where the election of a pro-tort reform and pro-health insurance candidate (see my post directly above this) would be called "the right move" by openleft

wtf?

forgot 1 word (0.00 / 0)
I never thought I'd see the day where the election of a pro-tort reform and pro-health insurance deregulation candidate (see my post directly above this) would be called "the right move" by openleft

wtf?

[ Parent ]
Are you referring to both Jackson and Hoffman, or just Hoffman? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
hoffman (0.00 / 0)
look on my post above, I don't say anything about Jackson
[ Parent ]
Breaking up state monopolies is NOT "pro-health insurance"! (0.00 / 0)
Really, TBH, I'm flabbergasted. On what do you base this weird idea???
[ Parent ]
not pro-health insurance, but pro-health insurance deregulation (0.00 / 0)
I and others have explained to you why we object to the 'shopping across state lines' idea. what happened with the credit card companies will happen here too. the companies can entice a state to weaken it's health insurance regulations and then they will relocate there so they can use the non-existant regulations of that particular state for their customers, even if they live in a state with good regulations. what we need is a national plan. not state by state shopping.

state shopping and tort reform are the first things right-wingers say when the subject turns to health insurance.

[ Parent ]
Can I make a quick comment on letting the Republicans choose our candidate for us? (0.00 / 0)
There's no point in picking the "safest" candidate to placate Republicans or because they're supposed to be the most "electable".  That's the most self-defeating way to choose a nominee, and it also leads to frustratingly simple-minded justification of picking tepid moderates over strong liberals.

I thought the 2004 Presidential election would've taught us this - Democrats chose John Kerry because he was "safer" and "more electable" than Howard Dean, and yet when the inevitable Republican attacks came Kerry didn't respond with the necessary toughness that Dean probably would have - and lost as a result.

The lesson is, the best nominee is not someone with a squeaky clean record, because it really doesn't matter.  If Republicans can't find any skeletons in your closet they'll simply make up one themselves, and it'll work, because of everything that's wrong with our politics.  So if you're supporting David Hoffman solely based on the hope that Republicans won't find anything to complain about him, you're being quite naive.  The best nominee is someone who's tough enough, smart enough, and feisty enough to respond effectively when the inevitable Republican lies and character attacks do come.

Of course, if you have actually object yourself to whatever weakness the candidate has, that's a different story and a valid objection.  But objecting to a weakness as a way of speaking for the other side is really pointless, self-defeating, and completely ignorant of the way politics works.

No. Ignoring the weakness is "pointless, self-defeating, and completely ignorant" (0.00 / 0)
With all those corpses in the cellar, that guy doesn't have a snowball chance in hell. There's simply no way to "respond effectively" when the attacks are so well based. That mud will stuck. Dreaming about Giannoullias tuning out to be a teflon superman, able to withstand the inevitable mudslinging, is simply unrealistic.
[ Parent ]
Okay, if Giannoulias is unable to deflect the charges then let's not nominate him (4.00 / 1)
My point was that it wasn't how clean the background that mattered, it was how the candidate dealt with it.  I'd feel much safer with a candidate with tons of baggage but the right amount of toughness and savvy to make it a non-issue, then a squeaky clean candidate who can't message for shit and will collapse under a fake scandal invented by the Republicans.
[ Parent ]
The problem is... (0.00 / 0)
Giannoulias who may well be 'feisty' hasn't even finished his 'first' term in office.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Hoffman with his background I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, and Jackson, seems like she's been pushed aside from the beginning.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

[ Parent ]
If all three Democrats suck, which is the way it's looking, here's an easy way to choose between them (0.00 / 0)
Pick the oldest one.  The oldest one would have the shortest potential length of service, and thus make it sooner for us to have the next open election, where we can hopefully come up with a better crop of candidates.

Unfortunately, all three of the candidates are frustratingly young.  Giannoulias is famously young at 33, Hoffman is 42 and Jackson is the oldest at 45.  So I guess by this strategy Jackson would be the choice, but not by a particularly wide margin.

Also, maybe the Wikipedia page hasn't been updated but apparently there are other no-name candidates as well.

From our Tenth Dems dot org list (0.00 / 0)
Just saw the first yard sign for Robert Marshall, MD, who, in addition to his medical training and positions, is a veteran of the Vietnam War.

Jacob Meister, Chicago attorney, has been campaigning fairly actively. Looks younger than his age (~45).

This Wikipedia page shows all the primary candidates running, plus those who declined.

[ Parent ]
I love openleft comments (0.00 / 0)
Just read through all 100 comments on the subject of who to vote for as Dem Sen candidate. It was fascinating and I felt like I really was in a smoke filled room listening in. Found out lots about both Gian and Hoffman. But still - who am I going to vote for? I don't know.

By the way, though it is political death to touch the subject of the Israeli occupation, I thought I would email each candidate and see what they had to say. As expected, no reply from the leaders, a routine boilerplate "must defend itself" from Meister, (now out of it) and, bless his heart, a reply from Marshall who, of course, hasn't a prayer, saying we should get out of foreign involvements in general.

Illinois Senate: Can Giannoulias be stopped? | 101 comments





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