Tea party convention organizers categorically reject creating third party

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Feb 05, 2010 at 18:28


Dave Weigel is reporting on the tea party convention over twitter.  One big scoop is that the organizers have flatly rejected the idea of forming a third party to run their own candidates in general elections:

Organizers say they "absolutely do not support a third party."

Well, that's that.  Any hopes that Democrats will preserve their large congressional majorities in 2010 through a wave of tea party candidates who splinter conservative votes should be dashed.

Tea partiers are correctly identifying increasing their electoral power within an already powerful electoral institution--the Republican Party--as an easier path to overall power than a creating a new electoral institution altogether.

There is, without a doubt, a certain emotional satisfaction to third-parties.  Whether it is the sense of rebellion, of getting back at politicians that have let you down, the feeling of breaking with a corrupt system, the promise of dramatic change, or of making an uncompromising public statements of your beliefs-siding with a third-party can feel very good. Having voted for a variety of Democrats and third-party candidates from 1992-2002, I know this from personal experience.  Whatever the consequences, sometimes it feels good not to feel owned.

However, beyond the emotional, the bottom line is that third-parties have accomplished little to nothing in the way of electoral and legislative ends over the past several decades.  Less than 1% of the people elected to Congress have been on third-party or independent tickets.  Even the very few third-party and independent candidates who do make it to Congress caucus with the major parties and enter into their seniority systems, effectively making them no different from (usually) Democrats or (occasionally) Republicans.

No system lasts forever, and this may not always be the case.  Also, I still expect something of a third-party resurgence in 2012 or 2016 (but not 2010 or 2014).  However, in the short-term, even the tea-partiers are not breaking away.

Chris Bowers :: Tea party convention organizers categorically reject creating third party

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Of Course (4.00 / 5)
The right, being more authoritarian, is far less likely to splinter in any significant way than the left.  They know it's all about power, it's in their DNA, there is no way they can forget it.

Still, even without splintering the vote in November, they can cause a lot of problems in the primaries, even as they are causing a lot of problems for themselves and anyone close to them right now.

This really won't do much to help the Dems, unless the Dems help themselves ("But what are the chances of that?"--Chief Wiggums.)  Still, it should serve to remind folks that things are a good deal more fluid than your typical brain-dead Versailles narrative would lead you to believe.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


True, but as you have so often reminded us (0.00 / 0)
the right is rife with emotional motivations, not responses based in rationality. The rising tensions when authoritarians begin to squabble over which little dictator gets to tell everyone else what to do, produce sparks that can fly over the smallest of emotional issues and presumed slights. Setting off a firestorm. I have no qualms fanning those flames. None at all.

The individualist and nativist tendencies are less likely to result in disaffected Tea Partiers forming a new party, as in their stomping off in a show of unsolidarity. As I have said elsewhere, the advantage is to the progressive left when (and if) parties split, because these are the folks that know how to organize. Even so, trying to provide progressive approaches to issues that are important to the individualists may also be useful. Minimally, such can provide a wedge issue - on the right, for a change.

Government accountability, stem cells, human rights, humanism and gun laws are all areas where well-crafted progressive policy outlines might provide for comity with particular fellow citizens that have become disaffected with the astroturf of the tea parties.

That said, I would never presume to develop such outlines, because I lack standing in the progressive circles. Such are but humble suggestions, gleaned from many long nights discussing politics with non-choir members.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
And here is my fear: (0.00 / 0)
"Still, even without splintering the vote in November, they can cause a lot of problems in the primaries, even as they are causing a lot of problems for themselves and anyone close to them right now."

If teabaggers win a bunch of Republican primaries, then they have all of the 'throw the incumbents out' momentum.  They will have bagged a few R incumbents in the primaries, and they will look like an outsider public movement ready to seize power.  And they kind of will be, at least until their policy empowers insiders more than existing policy.  


[ Parent ]
OT, but (0.00 / 0)
Paul, any chance you are going to promote this diary over the weekend? Oregon Special Kills Mass in Youth Turnout

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
Uh, David, everything ok with that headline? (4.00 / 1)
I guess it's only me, with my limited understanding of English, but I can't make any sense of this. What's an "oregon special"? A "saturday night special" sold or manufactured in Oregon? Or the brand name of a train regularly running there? Then, "kills mass"? A mass killing? Or church services that were interrupted? "youth turnout"? When and where did the youth turn out? For an election? Or a boy scout meeting? And what has this to do with the gun and the church? For me, the most likely explanation is that a gun nut created a massacre in Oregon. But then reading the diary, I see this doesn't seem to be the topic at all...

Sry, but really, what did you mean to say with this headline? I'm honestly confused.


[ Parent ]
Thinking more about this... (0.00 / 0)
...another reading of the headline is more likely: Oregon train kills scores of youth that gathered for an event.

Still, the connection to your story is totally unclear. Ok, Oregon special hints at a special election in Oregon. But "kills mass at youth turnout"? Nobody was really killed, and either there was a big turnout, or it has been killed (in the meaning of terminated), but not both. Again, sry, prolly it's only me who is too dumb to get it.
But can we haz unmizunderstandable hatlinez, plz?


[ Parent ]
What about "High Youth Turnout In Oregon Special Election"? (0.00 / 0)
Afaics, that's what your diary is about (interesting read, btw). But that headline wouldn't have been sensational  enough, maybe?
:-/

[ Parent ]
Not my headline (0.00 / 0)
But yes, it's a strange headline. Oddly, that made me like it more.  

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
Well, it was a weird headline, but the diary was interesting. (0.00 / 0)
Where is it gone? That link doesn't work anymore. I really hope my snark didn't make the diarist (who was it?) delete it!
8-(

[ Parent ]
Good Idea (4.00 / 2)
But Gray's right.  It needs to be re-titled.

Fortunately, I'm an editor, and I actually get paid to do this sort of thing.

How about: "Oregon Special Mass Kills Youth In Turnout"?

No, that's not quit it.

Well, what about: "Oregon Mass Kills Special Youth In Turnout"?

No, that's not it, either.

How's: "Oregon Kills Special Mass Youth in Turnout"?

Sigh!

This is going to be harder than I thought.  Maybe I better put the coffee on and change my pjs.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
"Special Mass Youth Turnout Kills Oregon!" (0.00 / 0)
Of course!
:D

[ Parent ]
Or better "Special Mass Oregon Youth Turnout Kills!" ? (0.00 / 0)
Damn, I'm still confused...
Btw, Paul you have a second set of PJs, especially for blogging? Wow! What luxury...
:-°

[ Parent ]
I was going to promote it on Friday (0.00 / 0)
But the headline stopped me. "Kills?" Really?

[ Parent ]
What does it say about me (0.00 / 0)
that I barely thought about it?

Never mind, don't answer that.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
This is bad (4.00 / 2)
The logical outcome of the teabaggers taking over the GOP is American politics being pulled further to the right.  As teabaggers force their candidates further right through the primary system, the few moderates left in the party will have no choice but to become Democrats.  The Democratic party, therefore, will see more and more Lieberdems and Specters.  And those types of corporatist Democrats will seem more and more viable as candidates as their GOP opponenents are more and more of the knuckle-dragging, teabagging variety.  Through the logic of voting for the lesser evil, Congress moves to the right.

On the bright side it will be very hard for teabagger candidates to win outside the South and some rural western states.  Dems might own Congress for a while...if they can manage not to completely screw things up.


"Dems" owning Congress gets us little to nothing (4.00 / 4)
We need liberal majorities in Congress.  Not the same as Democratic.

[ Parent ]
Looking at the teabaggers as a 'left-right' thing is wrong (4.00 / 2)
this is a major ideological shift within the current Republican coalition--the teabaggers taking over is the neocons and the Christianist conservatives losing power.  If they do it, and if they do it through this public rebellion, it means the Republicans will be left with a much less toxic public face.  

This is nothing but bad for the Democrats' long term electoral prospects unless they can come up with some sort of meaningful counternarrative.


[ Parent ]
Huh? (0.00 / 0)
Agreed about the neocons losing influence to Teabaggers, but the Christianists?  I see them as standing to benefit from this, especially since so much of the movement is centered around a nativist identity, aka white, Christian and patriarchal.

[ Parent ]
the teabaggers aren't pushing the christianist agenda (4.00 / 1)
There is virtually no talk about abortion, gay rights, and the decadence of the youth amongst the teabaggers.  

Functionally, there would likely be a bone thrown, and a candidate like Huckabee might be a compromise candidate between the two groups, but the teabag movement is a big push away from the messaging that you got from the Jerry Falwell-types.  


[ Parent ]
So what you want (0.00 / 0)
Is a centrist third party for these people to go to?  That would be nice, I suppose, because it would make explicit the question of whether those in the middle want a center-left or a center-right governing coalition.  If we had a parliamentary, multi-party system, the left would still often have to choose between compromising with the center to form a majority coalition or insisting on being a more ideologically rigid minority.

I also see a distinction between Lieberman and Specter.  Lieberman is an ass who will do whatever he feels like doing, while Specter can be bullied into submission so long as you give him a fig leaf of intellectual independence.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Hmm, but Scott Brown is a Teabaggers favorite. (0.00 / 0)
And is MA in the South or a "rural Western state"? Not really, afaik...

And it doesn't look at all like Dems will profit from the teabaggers. Quite to the contary, this movement seems to consist of low information voters, who simply don't understand anything going on in DC, but have a strong feeling that this isn't in their own best interest (which, actually, isn't really a false impression). And they're not only right wingers, but also lots of independents and even Dems. And the puppeteers behind that "party" steer the crowd towards the right. So, it's not the Dems gaining voters from this shift, but losing them!

And the reason behind this is obviously that the Dems, and especially the WH, have done a piss poor job at explaining their politics to the low information crowd, which can't (or won't) compute explanations exceeding one or two sentences. And the Dems simply weren't able to explain the benefits of the Healthcare reform in a way that makes sense to those voters. Not really surprisingly, since there sin't that much in it for the middle class. The big difference is that millions of uninsured will be enabled to sign up for a halthcare plan, but, let's be honest, people aren't altusitic enough to see this as a big advantagee, and amyn even see this as a negative point.

And, that criticism is valid, too, by letting HCR drag on forever, the Dems lost the focus on the economic problems. And Obama never really made the argument that it's all Bush fault, so now he somewhat owns the crisis. All in all, it's a mixture of scewed up lawmaking and horrible marketing. Business as usual for the Dems, no change at all. And now it's high time to change that course, to deliver good policies with an obvious value for the people, and to sell it in a populist way. Or else the phony right wing populists will rule the next election with their unashamedly negative campaigning.


[ Parent ]
Health care is to the Dems what abortion is to the GOP (0.00 / 0)
just something to amuse the hicks while nothing chages, or everythings changes for the worse.

Can people wake up? The is a real aristocracy in this world, and if you aren't fighting them, you are going to die a slave.


[ Parent ]
The teabaggers did not "take over" the GOP (0.00 / 0)
rather the opposite.

[ Parent ]
Seems unresolved, to me (0.00 / 0)
Since the tea partyers are smart enough not to start a new party, it looks to me like they will certainly succeed in taking over a part of the GOP. How else to interpret (from NY Times)

Mr. Skoda said he did not support a third party. "We're not attempting to replicate the R.N.C., we're not attempting to co-opt the R.N.C.," he said, referring to the Republican National Committee. Still, candidates elected with PAC support would be expected to caucus around those first principles in Washington, he said, and if they did not, "We vote them out."

The real question is WHY AREN'T PROGRESSIVES CREATING THEIR OWN TEA PARTY (faction) ANALOG? Well, jeffroby is, but in light of the fact that he's only been at it since the beginning of last December, and corporations haven't paid for his buses, we can't expect him to be as far along. Still, that begs the question - where are the other Progressive tea party like movements?

Perhaps the answer to the above question is that progressives are wimps. The base doesn't make demands, according to Jeff Cohen in the latest installment of the 3 part series "Progressives and the Democratic Party".


435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Oops, wrong quote (0.00 / 0)
From TPM

The question was phrased as follows: "Okay, suppose the Tea Party Movement organized itself as a political party. When thinking about the next election for Congress, would you vote for the Republican candidate from your district, the Democratic candidate from your district, or the Tea Party candidate from your district?"

The results: Democratic 36%, Tea Party 23%, Republican 18%.



435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Third parties serve as a useful escape valve (0.00 / 0)
to allow liberal Democrats to register their discontent and choose an alternative to their corporate/centrist party nominees.  I for one am glad that the Green Party was around to field a candidate I could vote for instead of Dianne Feinstein in 2006 (and 2012, if she runs again).

It should not be very surprising (4.00 / 2)
that this particular Convention, one that has been slammed by competing Tea Party groups as being hosted and controlled by professional political types too much in the tank for conservative establishment interests, would rule out opposing the GOP.  For the Dick Armeys, Freedomworks and other astroturfy folks, it was always about making the party even more reactionary than it already was.

The more grassroots flavored Tea Party people are a motley crew of Paulistas, Glen Beck devotees, Dittoheads and other various and sundry white nationalists and neo-confederates who have different motivations for being involved but are unified by their anger at... well, their individual anger of choice.  If any unlikely third party were to be formed, it would be from them.  They have no money, so unless they get a rich high profile leader (e.g. a Ross Perot type) nothing will come of it.


- (0.00 / 0)
However, beyond the emotional, the bottom line is that third-parties have accomplished little to nothing in the way of electoral and legislative ends over the past several decades.  Less than 1% of the people elected to Congress have been on third-party or independent tickets.  Even the very few third-party and independent candidates who do make it to Congress caucus with the major parties and enter into their seniority systems, effectively making them no different from (usually) Democrats or (occasionally) Republicans.

I understand your argument, and I agree with it partly, but I disagree with how it's presented.  There Is No Alternative style argumentation is not really helpful.  Or: I think excessive coercion is more of a danger right now than people considering things that might not succeed.


3rd party history (0.00 / 0)
IIRC, the Republicans started as a third party. It seems to have worked out.
Negotiation 101: To get something out of a deal, you have to be willing to walk away.

Just blindly asserting 'it seemed to work out' (4.00 / 1)
without studying the how and why it worked out is folly at best.  The Republicans started out as a heavily regional party that gradually gained mass appeal in a time when the traditional party system was utterly collapsing, and the start up costs of party organization were much lower.  

[ Parent ]
NYT (finally) has same quote (0.00 / 0)
also says they plan a PAC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02...


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Divide and conquer (0.00 / 0)
Can we do anything to increase tension between the rank-and-file tea partiers and the Republican establishment?  Can Democrats let them have an up-and-down vote on Obama's birth certificate and other silly conspiracy theories?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

Indeed, that is the question. (0.00 / 0)
From the Dems' point of view it's obvious that a third party would be good, and teabagger support for rethugs bad. However, I really don't see how Dems can influence that. And, seriously, where are those "third party" candidates who would take away votes from the GOP nominees? Are there any reports about lots of right wing independents running for office, evrywhere in the US? Afaik, no.

So, I'm very afraid that teabaggers will indeed vote GOP, because they believe this party has changed. Of course, it really hasn't, but they successful poject that impression. Just look at how fast they disowned Dubya, nobody's talking about him anymore, as if he isn't a rethuglican, and as if it wans't th rethuglicans that creatd the economic desaster!

And the Dems, on the other hand haven't changed at all. Virtually NOBODY believes that. And the media reinforces the obvious stagnation by running the old meme "it's the same old mess with the liberals" as a mantra. This, of course, is a sure road to disaster!

What's the way out of this cul de sac, if driving the teabaggers to vote for third party candidates is unrealistic? Well, imho the only chance is for the Dems to get the liberal and independents among the protest movement back on their side. And to do this, simply stomping with the argument "the other side is even worse!" won't fly, as the countless recent debacles have shown. Dems need to deliver popula legislation now, bills that at least look like they are a change to the system, and put the people's interest first. The Bonus Tax is such a bill. And maybe Healthcare reform with a Medicare buy in, if it can be explained to th crowd in simple terms.

But to deliver this, the Dems have to break up the deadlock in Senate, and fast. There is no time for hesitation now, time is running out. Like Kucinich said (and I'm not really a fan of him, but here he's right), it's either being bold, or to lose the country!


[ Parent ]
A high percentage of teabaggers rejected the legitimacy of (4.00 / 1)
the convention. I am skeptical this convention speaks for them.

My blog  

Yes, looks like many see the convention as a fraud. (0.00 / 0)
Rightly, of course. But I'm afraid this won't keep them from voting for any rethuglican who owns a truck in November.

[ Parent ]
Watching The Tea Party Convention (0.00 / 0)
C-Span has been running the videos from the Tea Party Convention in Nashville all night, and I started watching when I got up in the morning... and, believe me, this is scary stuff. I especially was taken by one Joseph Farah, who is the Founder, CEO and Editor In Chief of WorldNetDaily.

This is scathing stuff about the country's move to Socialism over 90 or so years, the Marxist description of President Obama, and the focus on changing our underlying culture with its non-political organizations away from the socialist-leaning entities that, he says, they have become.

It is particularly frightening to me because Theatre is one of the areas (Entertainment Industry) that Farah fingers and encourages his followers to overcome.

He ties everything together with ACORN (which he seems to think is an openly Obama-operated organization) and uses that connection to attack the poor, the immigrant population, etc., with the notion of "turning make believe crises into real crises... and why?... to take away our freedom and the American Way of life.

Is it dangerous to have this stuff up on TV... even at 6 in the morning? You bet it is. But, if like me, you believe in free speech, which I don't think Farah does, you have to let this crap go on. If you want to accept his notion that Obama is using Government to replace God for Americans (and here I will go beyond my own non-religion base), then you will see that he is calling for an Above The Government control of the population.

If you see, as he does, that our elected leaders are a judgment on us and that we have to find tea-party-related leaders to elect, then you are already removed from freedom.

Time to actively work against these monsters.

Under The LobsterScope


Just to clarify: (0.00 / 0)
1) this is the biggest failure of "the left" in 2009

2) we will get a chance to get it right in 2014 and 2016, to perhaps start governing properly in 2017


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