Why does Chris Matthews hate America?

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Feb 13, 2010 at 16:00


[Note]: Although I concur completely with the point of Ian's diary from yesterday, "The best article on America's Elite", right now I'm struck by almost the exact opposite point: America's elites are so dumb, they couldn't have graduated from grade school where I grew up.


Because it's impossible to understand with his pea brain. From Digby:

Chris Matthews had former CIA operative and journalist Jack Rice and constitutional lawyer Bruce Fein on today in a failed attempt to educate himself on the basic tenets of the Bill of Rights.  He simply doesn't understand why, if we know that Khalid Sheik Mohammed is guilty, we should bother with a trial.

One of the two mentioned it in passing, but I think it's worth noting more explicitly, that the government presumably always "knows"  that someone is guilty before they indict him or her for a crime.  At least it should. The point of the trial is to make them prove it. They have to put their evidence on the table and convince 12 people that it's enough to take away someone's freedom or, in this case, execute them.  And because trials are public, this demonstration of proof creates trust in the justice system and the rule of law among the population at large.

Evidently Chris and many others see absolutely no value in proving to the American people, much less the rest of the world, that KSM actually did the crimes of which he's accused.

Now, I don't know about you, but I have this vague recollection that I learned this in grade school. I vividly remember the Revolutionary War re-enactment--or at least I remember the interminable rehearsals.  And I know that we had a pretty good idea why the British were so hated.  Part of it had to do with their use of Blackwater mercenaries German Hessians, and part of it had to do with violating the rights that the Colonials (that's us!) felt that they had as British citizens--which is why we ended up with most of the stuff you can find in the Bill of Rights.  And a good part of that has to do with protecting your rights if you're charged with a crime--or even suspected of one.  So let me summarize:  When I was around 8 or 9, everyone in my class had been exposed to  the basic civics that Matthews seems utterly oblivious to.  I can't remember precisely how it was presented to us.  I only know we were taught it assiduously, and then to make it stick, we were organized into a school-wide pageant to act out the military "fun" part.

Not withstanding my grade school partial amnesia, I damn sure know that both US history and civics was taught to me in Jr. high & then again in high school.  I had it dribbling out of my ears.  As far as I could tell, there was no way one could actually graduate from high school without knowing this sort of basic American civics.  

And yet, Chris Matthews, a former staffer for House Speaker Tip O'Neil, cannot grasp this.  A lack of knowledge so fundamental that he conceivably could have failed 3rd or 4th grade (can't remember which) back when I was in the none-too-remarkable Mooreland School District.

Now, it may well be true that no one in Versailles could have passed the third or fourth grade where I went to school as a kid.  (I had no idea the education I was getting was that rigorous!)  But I'll tell who does know that stuff--and until quite recently admired the hell out of the US because of it: 1.2 billion Moslems world-wide who are the prime targets of al Qaeda's recruitment efforts in their attempt to mount a holy war against us.

Al Qaeda wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell if Chris Matthews and his Versailles cohorts could graduate from fourth grade.  Al Qaeda wouldn't stand a chance if Chris Matthews and the rest of Versailles didn't hate America so much.

Paul Rosenberg :: Why does Chris Matthews hate America?

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Most of America hates America (4.00 / 2)
In polling, the majority of Americans don't want KSM tried in civilian courts, don't want him tried in NYC, and don't believe terror suspects have the same constitutional rights as other people.  If the question were polled, I wouldn't be shocked if a majority of Americans agreed with Chris Matthews on this point.

I don't think the media elites are dumb.  I think they're about as smart as average Americans.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


Most People Don't Think About This Stuff (4.00 / 7)
They really don't.  They think about their family being safe.  They don't think about international relations.  It's the constant BS propaganda from Versailles that has them buying into this stupidity.

But why do you think Versailles is so opposed to trials?  One reason is that when you take those same average Americans who've been constantly propagandized, and set them down in a courtroom, there's a very strong tendency (not certainly, by any means) for them to remember all that civics stuff they learned in school, but have temporarily forgotten.  And the thought of that scares the bejeezus out of Versailles.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
They are opposed to trials (4.00 / 6)
because they're effectively the refs in politics and have been played by the right for decades, and are now effectively owned by it. And since the right is opposed to trials, they too are therefore opposed to trials.

The real question is why the right is opposed to trials, and that, too, is easy. It's opposed to trials because it's deeply authoritarian and inherently opposed to the true rule of just law, both because it would usually go against their interests, and because they simply revere blind and brutal power. As you well know, they are and always have been anti-democracy.

France has its royalist and La Pen types, and we have our own fascist and oligarch types.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
It's not just "the right". Obama's pal Cass Sunstein (4.00 / 5)
isn't all that fond of our jury system. And he is talked about as a possible Supreme Court justice?  He's an elitist.  Jefferson said that the divide would always be between aristocrats and democrats whatever the party names.  And I say it's always between the bullies and the anti bullies; the excluders and the includers. Yes, the authoritarian paternalists versus the brother and sisterhood.


[ Parent ]
Military tribunals are conducted under the authority of the (4.00 / 5)
Executive branch, while civilian trials are under the authority of the Judicial branch.  Too many Republicans (and others) have prejudice that ALL authority belongs to the Executive: the Judicial and the Legislative should have little.  

It is a deeply fascist way of thinking.



[ Parent ]
Actually (4.00 / 1)
I was originally going to discuss that in this diary, about how Versailles has almost totally lost any sense of what the separation of powers is all about and why it matters. But the flow of the diary just sort of took on a life of it's own, and ended when it wanted to before I could get around to that.

Hmmm. Maybe tomorrow.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good point (4.00 / 1)
I hadn't considered that. And since the executive branch still gets to prosecute civilian trials, so it's hard to get away from the suspicion that pro-military commission types are hoping for an essentially fixed trial and basically have no faith in genuine due process.

The authoritarian mindset is inherently anti-democratic, and it's all based on fear and the will to dominate. My god, the awful childhoods these people must have had.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Fertile ground (4.00 / 1)
It's not the masses being brainwashed by propaganda.  These are people who are predisposed to think that way.

I just don't think that Versailles is quite as manipulative as you sometimes claim and it is sometimes a case of sheep leading the sheep.  

Most people operate by picking a desired outcome and coming up with reasoning to lead to that outcome.  This often leads to inconsistency in reasoning for different cases.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Of Course There's Plenty Of Sheep-Like Behavior Involved (4.00 / 2)
Look at the original Versailles.  I chose the term advisedly.

But manipulators are very much necessary for it's continued existence.

Most people operate by picking a desired outcome and coming up with reasoning to lead to that outcome.  This often leads to inconsistency in reasoning for different cases.

Yes, people do this a lot.  But how much they do it versus being guided by other norms is something that varies considerably.

As the social norms change over time, the outcomes change, too.  Not that long ago, the norms somewhat constrained this sort of behavior.  Now they enthusiastically encourage it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Ain't that the point? (0.00 / 0)
It's not the masses being brainwashed by propaganda.  These are people who are predisposed to think that way.

As I understand it, the purpose of brain washing is to predispose the targets to think in particular ways, no?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
"They think about their family being safe." (4.00 / 7)
That is the crux of it right there, folks. The result of the last 35 years or so of intensive propagandizing and fear mongering means that Americans are absolutely in favor of trading away their rights, not for safety, but for the illusion of safety. And a willingness to throw away your freedom for (the illusion of) safety not only makes you patriotic, not wanting to do so makes you an America-hating asshole. Constitution be damned.

It's a key part of the larger picture of the Infantilization of America. Politicians, even when they know the truth, can't actually speak it because Americans have been infantilized to a degree that they can't even bear hear it, and will demonize the pol who spoke it. This goes for even the most basic and seemingly innocuous of issues if it entails any criticism of the way we (that is, the Hegemony) do things or, American Exceptionalism.  


[ Parent ]
I think you are right but it may have been happening for longer than 35 yearss (4.00 / 1)
If you look at the history of America you will find from the time of colonization the harsh treatment of those who threaten us, especially when they are of a different heritage.  The illegal treatment and slaughter of Native-Americans is the best example. The internment of Japanese-Americans is another, more recent example.  The issue of slavery seems to fit well within this type of behavior.  It is hardly surprising that we would react harshly when brown skinned Middle Eastern muslins attack and kill Americans.  

I think all of the comments above are meritorious, and certainly the right-wing elitist leadership of this country is the strongest proponents of military reaction to any threat.  I believe the need to retaliate vigorously against a  perceived threat is deeply ingrained into the American psyche.  It seems that the U.S. has a long history of forgetting the idealistic tenets of our constitution when dealing with an enemy.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
Of course you're correct it's been going on forever. (4.00 / 1)
I was being specific to the Post-Carter era and the propaganda that's happened in conjunction with the New Deal rollbacks, deregulation, and the so-called Reagan revolution. Apologies if I was not more clear about that.

[ Parent ]
I understood that and was in complete agreement. (0.00 / 0)
I just wanted to take your thoughts even further.  My point was that it goes beyond elitism or modern conservative greed.  Perhaps resorting to abusive treatment of our adversaries is deeply ingrained into our culture.   However, before the more recent period, we didn't have a segment of our society who were so blatant.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...


[ Parent ]
I like to think that I'd reserve retribution (0.00 / 0)
for those that abuse human rights.

Pogo said it best, year ago.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Illusion (0.00 / 0)
Is it an illusion of "safety", or an illusion that "the government/military/elites can provide safety"?

Who, or what determines your "safety" and from whom?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
The ultimate irony, of course (4.00 / 3)
That people on the right who keep claiming to revere the constitution are absolutely defiling it with their anti-constitutional utterances and calls to action. Sort of a burn down the village in order to save it mentality. I'm sure that most of them aren't even aware of this blatant irony (thus the infantilization). And, of course, when we point this out, we're condescending elitists.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Most of America (0.00 / 0)
hates Chris Matthews!

[ Parent ]
What's a concern about Chris (4.00 / 1)
should be a deep fear about everyone who was born after 1990.

Try to find a curriculum in any school district, charter school or private school in USA that continues to teach Civics. Betcha ya can't.

It has been enfolded into Social Studies and, like pretty much everything enfolded for efficiency's sake, has been given far too short a shrift.

Chris doesn't have that excuse, but I'd be willing to agree with Anthony that a substantial majority of Americans agree with Chris. Constitutional and legal protections for prosecuted individuals have come to a point where the majority perceives them as being "loopholes" for the benefit of "criminals."



Oh Paul, you poor clueless literalist (4.00 / 2)
As everyone who knows how the world ACTUALLY works knows, the framers didn't intend for the constitution to be taken LITERALLY, and silently and secretly inserted an implied rider that stipulated that when the WRITTEN constitution conflicted with our ACTUAL needs (as perceived, of course, by the power elite, "our needs" being defined as THEIR needs), it could and should be ignored and superceded.

And, since this was done both silently and secretly, you can't disprove that this was in fact done, therefore it must have been done, therefore we're allowed to put it to use when we see fit. And unlike poor literalist saps like you, wise men of the world like Tweety know this in their deepest souls, to the point where it overflows and runs down their legs like a thrill.

Sigh. Why must this always be explained to you?

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


Maybe Nicholas Cage Can Get To The Bottom Of It (0.00 / 0)
Ya think?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I don't really get the reference (0.00 / 0)
But I'm sure that it's quite funny.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Just A-Musing On "National Treasure" (0.00 / 0)
Mildly funny at best, I'm sure.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
What exactly (4.00 / 1)
do they teach in those prep schools?

Montani semper liberi

For that you'd need to read Ian's post from yesterday, (4.00 / 1)
[ Parent ]
Project (4.00 / 2)
don't reflect.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Indeed! n/t (0.00 / 0)


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yup (0.00 / 0)
Now try it.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
n/t = now try (0.00 / 0)
?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
n/t = No Text (0.00 / 0)
So if someone sees the subject line, they know there's no need to look for additional text.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
JAJ (0.00 / 0)
Just A Joke

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
HTTA (0.00 / 0)
Hard to tell anymore.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
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