52,000 square miles of land is not one gigantic neighborhood

by: Adam Bink

Mon Feb 15, 2010 at 11:30


Okay, I know I'm going against years of political normalcy here, but let me give a free piece of advice to New York State elected officials: using the term "upstate New York" to refer to one region as a political whole is a little imprecise and very dismissive.

The latest example, from Gov. Paterson last night, while introducing Sen. Gillibrand:

Senator Gillibrand represents a region of this state that contains 40 percent of its population, but often is ignored.

Nothing against Gillibrand, but no, not quite. Sen. Gillibrand is from the Hudson Valley. What's that got to do with people in Elmira, Rochester, Niagara Falls, or Chautauqua County? Would Gov. Paterson walk up to any residents of those places and tell them "Guess what? I appointed Sen. Gillibrand to the Senate! She's one of you, since you're all from outside New York City!"? I sure hope not. So why do folks insist on referring to a region that big as one blanket term- "upstate"- and pretending people from "upstate" are all the same? I'm always happy to have elected officials from outside NYC, and she's Senator for the entire state, but Gillibrand grew up in, and represented a House district that is five hours from where I grew up. So what?

Here's another example, from a Marist Poll press release:

How does the hypothetical race shape up by region?  In Gillibrand's backyard - upstate New York - she garners 50% compared with 23% for Ford.

Her "backyard"? If you take off Long Island and New York City- including water area- upstate New York is over 52,000 square miles. That's kind of a big "backyard", one that's roughly bigger than nearly half the states in the entire Union, including Alabama, Pennsylvania and Ohio. I was born and raised in suburban Buffalo, lived for four years in Rochester where I did my undergrad, my boyfriend teaches at Syracuse University, and my grandparents lived in a tiny village called Franklinville in the rural Southern Tier near the Pennsylvania border. In all of these places, some issues are the same, but lots are different. I'm pretty sure folks in those places wouldn't tell you they live in "Gillibrand County" or whatever. The culture and demographics are also different from place to place. The City of Buffalo is much more blue-collar Democratic, impoverished, and African-American than an Ithaca or a Plattsburgh or Cattaraugus County, and those places are all different from each other, so I don't know why all get lumped into ridiculous statements like "Hillary needs to score huge margins in NYC and hold upstate" as if "upstate" was all demographically the same and cared about the exact same issues.

Specifics matter. If you're talking about the Finger Lakes region, or Western New York, or the North County, or Elmira, or Westchester, or anywhere else, then say so. The sooner New York politicians- and pollsters- learn to stop speaking like 52,000 square miles' worth of people all live in one gigantic neighborhood, the better off they'll be.

Adam Bink :: 52,000 square miles of land is not one gigantic neighborhood

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By The Same Token (4.00 / 1)
What's with "Southern California"?  You could say the same sorts of things.  The coastline is nothing like the inland deserts--be they rural or exurban, to say nothing of the suburban and exurban expanses midway between.  And all those regions have significant differences within them as well.

Ultimately, it's not the use of such broad geographical terms.  It's just one more object for brain-dead discourse to congeal around.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I'm not from "Upstate NY", I am from WESTERN NY (4.00 / 3)
That whole "Upstate NY" stuff is a crock of arrogant BS.  I grew up outside of Buffalo, and we considered ourselves as being from Western NY.  My brother now lives in Potsdam, which is referred to as Northern NY by most of the state.

Sadly, folks from "The City" (as if there is only one in the whole damn world) insist that there is their part of the state, and "upstate", waving us off with a slight of their hand.  Even folks I went to college with (in Rochester, still in WNY, although I imagine some may try to group it with Syracuse as part of Central NY) laughed off the insult.

I like visiting the NYC and Long Island area, and family members there have been very kind in showing the wonders of that area.  But the general arrogance and downright laziness of some folks who throw off anything not in their backyard as being some homogeneous rural area is very, very aggravating, as well as being a huge level of frustration politically.


Clusters (4.00 / 2)
I used to work for (and live in)Westchester County, NY.  The natural offset was with the two Long Island Counties, Nassau and Suffolk but the people from Monroe (Rochester) and Syracuse were actually a closer match than say folks from Albany. Buffalo and Erie County were indeed a world unto themselves.

The problem is that the smaller the data set, the more likely to get extreme pictures or lumping. I saw a lot of Buffalo area people in Florida in the early and mid 80s who had moved out to the blizzards of 1977-78.  NY state hired a woman from Buffalo to direct one of their programs and she was chock full of tude.  Thought the state had two cities (roughly equal) and nothing else.  Based on her, and not the larger sample, I'd think that it was Buffalo and not NY City that had the attitude problem (btw, I got to root against the Buffalo Bills entirely because I couldn't stand Tim Russert, who had a lot of the same problems).

Coming from NJ. I've seen a lifetime of NY City attitudes.  They do exist.  There is a reason we have a chip on our shoulder.  We are tired of being treated as inferior, irrelevant chemical dumps.  We are tired of hearing how everything is wonderful and meaningful in the City.  I understand the frustration.


[ Parent ]
It' a habit (0.00 / 0)
Stupid I know, but people from NYC and LI do this all the time. Anywhere north of Westchester County is "upstate." And they refer to anything between New Jersey and California as "one of the M states." And to the south? Fuhgedabouit!

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

Paterson's arrogance. (4.00 / 1)
If I were Gillibrand, I would shrink from his endorsement.

I hope that Paterson will recede from public life after his miserable tenure is over. He decimated the network of hospitals in Queens County closing three, unnecessarily endangering the lives of 1/3 of this city. The only people in New York State who really count for him are 100,000 wealthy people in Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs.

They only call it class war when we fight back.


Back in the 70s (4.00 / 2)
My intended and me took a cross country trip that lasted most of one summer.  One of us is from North Creek, NY.  The other from Westernville, NY.  We camped our way down the eastern seaboard, across the midwest, up the rocky mountains, down the west coast, back to Boulder, CO.  My SO stayed and I returned to Heuvelton, NY to teach school for one more year.  I came away with one insight that has stuck with me for 30 years.  It is nothing short of extraordinary that this country elects one president.  There may be broad threads that bind us as a country, but there are enormous geographic differences, and disparate regional concerns which follow them.  That observation is equally true for most of the states we visited.

True story.  My brother hosted an Eagle Scout group from "the City" one summer.  When they got north of the Thruway they wanted to know if they were in Canada yet.

Upstate, Downstate, Western NY, St. Lawrence valley, Adirondack Region, Mohawk valley... All these areas have "their own shoes."


I Think Everyone Should Cross Country When Young (4.00 / 1)
Me, I hitch-hiked back and forth dozens of times.  At least back then this meant that I met all sorts of people.  A fair number of older folks (old enough to be my parents, that is) in most of the rural areas, and that meant that I heard all sorts of stories about all sorts of things.

There were also a lot of Vietnam Vets just a few years older then me, who desperately needed to talk to someone about the things they'd seen that no one back home could deal with--or at least that's how they felt.  So, when I hear right-wingers saying that the Winter Soldier investigations were all just made-up stories told by folks who didn't really serve, I have hours and hours and hours of personal experience listening to harrowed souls spilling their guts out to me in the middle of night driving down some desolate highway in Idaho, Nebraska, Iowa, or wherever, that completely contradicts their paranoid fantasy.

So you get both sides.  You get the terribly specific, geographically, culturally, socially.  And you get the broadly general, the universal.  And more often than not, you get them both at the very same time.  One way or another, however you get it, it's an experience I think that everyone should have before they're 25 at the latest.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
upstaters (0.00 / 0)
At least they don't still refer to us as "appleknockers"

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