Setting the bar on language then violating it

by: Adam Bink

Fri Feb 19, 2010 at 19:30


I wrote a piece last week about the polling results and use of the term "homosexual" and how it is both offensive and detrimental to the gay cause. Of course, sometimes the problem is when gay people use it themselves. I was reading this week's NYTimes magazine and came across this passage, from a piece about Broadway play director David Cromer:

The goal that day was for Cromer to live it up and buy a suit for his Broadway opening. Two openings, actually. "Broadway Bound," the sequel to "Brighton Beach Memoirs," was to open seven weeks later; together, they were marketed as "The Neil Simon Plays." Joining us was Cromer's old friend David Korins, a tall, trim scenic designer wearing jeans and a Paul Smith jacket. Offhandedly stylish, he had been recruited to exert an encouraging influence on someone who was not born to shop.

"This is just another way in which I'm a terrible homosexual," Cromer fretted in advance of our outing. "I should have nice clothes, I should be in better shape, I should cook, I should have a nice apartment. I live like a college student. I always have. It's a very arrested thing. It's hard to grow out of that."

Two issues here. The first is all of the "should" stereotypes, which keeps the stereotypes coming about what gays "should" wear, do, eat, etc. As someone who is a rapid sports fan, including football, hockey and college basketball, and who isn't gaga over Lady Gaga, I tend to find these stereotypes both wrong and limiting. On the flip side, when I was in high school, I was an excellent clarinet player, and then learned to play the tenor saxophone. I looked at picking up flute in part because I loved performing in musical pit orchestras, and you often need to be adept at all of those instruments to handle woodwind parts. But a member of my own family told me flutes weren't for boys, they were for girls, and that was that. So I never learned to play the flute because of gender expectations, a.k.a. a bad case of the "shoulds" that Cromer is promoting here.

On the second issue, a lot of my friends who refer to themselves as "homos" or "homosexuals", usually in jest as Cromer does, are the same ones who complain about the media's or general public's use of the term. There's even a widely-attended regular happy hour here in DC called "Homo Hotel". If folks are wondering where their friends, family, the media and the general public gets that it's okay to use the term, those are two likely sources. I've heard the same issue around the word "nigger" used by African-Americans as a friendly term in pop culture while it's considered offensive otherwise. I can't speak to the issue around that term, but to my fellow gays, it's something to think about in our own actions.

Adam Bink :: Setting the bar on language then violating it

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As long as people (4.00 / 1)
stereotype themselves, others will do it as well. What would happen if gays didn't go to Homo Hotel because of the stereotype and name? The thinking behind that happy hour would change. It should be a place where men with a preference gather to let loose with no expectations. I also hate that some AA use the words nigger/nigga as if it's ok because they are black. Just like perez hilton thought it was ok to call Will.i.am a faggot because he is gay. You can't use those words and expect others not to. When people stop playing into the stereotype, stereotyping will start to die. Actors also need to refuse playing roles that stereotype them in real life.

Extraordinary progressive star in the making

Actually Jesse Jackson in a documentary advocated using the n word. (0.00 / 0)
I think all this letter stuff is silly, childish, and I imagine making us the laughing stock since we got rid of Bush and decided to focus on this crap.

I mean what's the matter with the word retarded?

Tarde comes from the Latin and so does its prefix; re means again and again, over and over.  You are tardy when you are late for school (in my day).

The only reason retarded has become a no-no word is that retard was used as an epithet to insult. Miss used to signal Old Maid also an insult. Pig is used to insult a cop or a fat person.

How far is all this ridiculous garbage going to go? Why feed into it at all at any level with any word. Just stop.


[ Parent ]
Jesse Jackson (0.00 / 0)
is a loser and Tiger Woods apology was not sincere, he will continue to cheat.

Extraordinary progressive star in the making

[ Parent ]
Slight difference... (4.00 / 1)
...between the words "homosexual" and "nigger." Unlike the ever-popular n-word, "homosexual" is actually just a literal description of behavior. Saying that the word homosexual is inherently derogatory is like saying it would be inherently derogatory to refer to people of African descent as "dark skinned." The fact that people seem to be put off by the word indicates that there's still a level of primal discomfort about the existence of gay sexual activity, a discomfort that only goes away with the use of innocuous euphemisms like "gay." Assuming this polling trend is correct, you need to still work on changing minds, not just language.

Keven - It's all in the intent of the speaker... (0.00 / 0)
especially when the speaker is being self-effacing.

But my thinking is it's not self-effacing at all to call yourself by a derogatory term that you would proclaim off limits to others.

Falsely self-effacing = just plain arrogant and conceited.

They only call it class war when we fight back.


[ Parent ]
Between us girls... (0.00 / 0)
We Jews laconically refer to ourselves as "Arabs" - figure that one out!


They only call it class war when we fight back.

I don't think the tone is quite right (4.00 / 2)
I wouldn't equate 'homosexual' to the n-word.  'Homosexual' is more an outdated term that has picked up a negative connotation from the right-wing's attempt to put homosexuality back into the DSM.  If we were to make a parallel to race, I would say that 'homosexual' is much closer to 'Negro', another outdated term that was once considered 'scientific'.  

The only word that evokes the same sort of force that the n-word does is 'fa__ot', which is one that I really only hear gay men throw around under some sort of duress.    


hmm (0.00 / 0)
the equivalent of the n* word is the f* word.  

but more to the point, if you're going to have a post about language and LGBT rights, at least use a more inclusive term than 'gay.'

Now, in your annoyance at what I've just said, consider the effects of language policing.


Actually (0.00 / 0)
I didn't say they were "equivalent" at all. I said I've heard similar complaints in a different community around self-policing or lack thereof.


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[ Parent ]
i know you didn't (0.00 / 0)
it's what i think.  it was a bit of an aside.  but everyone responds differently to different words.  I think the equivalent of 'homosexual' is more like 'colored person' or 'colored.'  Or something.  But an LGBT black person would be in a better position than me to say ;)

[ Parent ]
also my second point was that (0.00 / 0)
there's a tension between choosing the 'right' language and asking for language discipline in a strand movement that NEEDS to be about individual autonomy perhaps more so than many others.  I agree that casually employing self-hating terms is probably not useful, but then people might have said that about 'queer' at some point.  So it's the purpose or function for which it's used that's more relevant to me.

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Please, why are you writing about serious stuff? (0.00 / 0)
I want to ponder on whether Tiger Woods was really sincere in his apology. I am torn as to whether he really meant it or not and I want to read everything people have written about his apology. That is the big big story today. Enough of this Wash DC trivia!

Oh god, do people really think this way? Our media is hopeless.


Allen Ginsburg:I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel America (0.00 / 0)


re: use (4.00 / 1)
from the 'Parsing Don't Ask, Don't Tell polling' diary on the same subject:

Please stop using the term if you do, and correct others if you hear it.

if I hear a regular joe, not a progressive/liberal and not a right-winger either, using the homo word and ask them not to use it, and they reply 'why not?' what's the appropriate response?


Well (0.00 / 0)
A simple answer is that people have a right to be called what they would like to be called. I'd like to be called gay, thanks, the same way a Benjamin may prefer to be called Benjamin instead of Ben or Benny.

On a deeper level, maybe, it comes across to me as a scientific term that makes me feel like I'm in a lab study, but that's just me. I think a simple answer about names is good in that case.


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[ Parent ]
i guess i don't really care (0.00 / 0)
purity of language wars remind me of my undergrad days, or of right now at some places, when the trans/inter/multi/3rd/cis/trans gendered people are busy arguing among themselves which of those labels they would most like to be dominant.

my basic rule: reclaim, that's our goal. faggot, homo, lezzie, muff diver, fruit, fluffer, breeder... have i offended everyone yet? words don't hurt me, actions can. you want to call me "queer?" or anything else? go for it, and watch me embrace that, make jokes about it, give you a dissertation's worth of data about the positive ways my community has embraced that language.

this is a fine discussion to have, Adam, but it doesn't motivate me terribly much, right now. illegal war, continual bailout of banksters, even something as 'minor' as DADT, motivate me much more. you have your preference, so does everyone else. when it comes to words, that will never, ever change, even in Utopia World.  


[ Parent ]
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