You need people who can say this credibly (4.00 / 2)

At first least for the first few years, as your project is years in the making.

What I mean is you need a think tank that will train liberals/progressives who come from my background (low economic background who have in some way made it in our society due to public programs and community involvement) but also willing to go for the jugular in conversations.

I think the lines above are okay. but it is a matter of who says it- because the right biographies can be aimed at the conservatives making such arguments  like heat seeking missiles.

I keep returning to my own experiences- conservatives when I argue with them in person don't know what to say or do with me. The best they can come up with when they can't win on the biographical grounds or argument lines is to try to inject race. So you need people from a multitude of ethnic backgrounds to make repeat the same talking points but using their own biography to illustrate the commonly stated talking points.

You must also attack them personally as in questioning their character rather than name calling. Make it about the conservative character generally. I don't mean as in the way liberals see it. But in the way that moderate independents do. I will try to think of some examples.

This is really not an online enterprise. Not to me at least. It is one that needs to be a part of the mainstream of press coverage to work.  It must be repeated over and over again. It would require a lot of discipline.

It is worth while to do. Indeed, it is necessary to malign the conservative myth machine if you want to win in the long term. It is just a question of whether you have the resources to do it properly.  

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by: bruhrabbit @ Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 23:48:50 PM UTC

Modesty (0.00 / 0)

Your reply to my entry was even stronger.  

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 00:00:34 AM UTC

Solely for accuracy and to make sure no Village reporter testifies that he has proof that (0.00 / 0)

RandomNonviolence and HousesofProgress are in fact the same person (Jerome is that you?), I wouild like to say that in the first post on this subject last Saturday, my second suggested line was you have typed it above.

1. Republicans lie to their voters, lies make them feel stupid.

2. Its isnt elitist to tell to the truth.

3. When your plans fail, it must be someones else' fault.

http://www.openleft.com/viewRating.do?rateCommentId=217429

I also have a hard time keeping spelling, sentence structure and infinitives combined with their more committed cousins, passion, intent and speed. RandomNonviolence has no such foibles that I have noticed, and should not be confused with me, to be fair.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 00:35:19 AM UTC

Tis true (4.00 / 1)

HouseofProgress said it first and I just expressed by support for that statement.

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by: RandomNonviolence @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 00:59:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

When all else fails (0.00 / 0)

put it on a t-shirt.

I'll buy one.

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by: Michael Harold @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 00:45:06 AM UTC

Some suggestions (0.00 / 0)

There are folks who try to think strategically about progressive messaging. It might be useful to pass these suggestions on to them:

George Lakoff

The Metaphor Project (Susan Strong)

Also, we should just try to inject them into all of our discourse -- as bloggers, etc.

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by: RandomNonviolence @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 01:03:55 AM UTC

Grafitti (0.00 / 0)

Not that I am advocating vandalism.  I just note that it might be an effective way to spread a message that can be distilled into a slogan of five words or less.

I'm also assuming no one wants to commit suicide in a flashy manner and leave a manifesto behind like Joe Stack (something I also do not advocate, but note for completeness would probably be an effective way of spreading ideas).

I mention this because, while I don't think that we should necessarily violate laws, we should think outside the box and be willing to violate social norms, even those which most liberals would accept.  For example, if there were a way to use children to spread a message, why shouldn't progressives contemplate that?  The civil rights movement tossed out kids as targets for racists to use water hoses and dogs against, knowing that those images would ultimate further the cause.

I regularly drive by a billboard that says "Impeach Obama".  If I had the money, to make a splash, I would have billboard ready to go that would spread a message.  And I would it in a provocative way, if they would let me.  Let's say Dick Cheney dies of a heart attack tomorrow.  I'd love to put up a billboard that depicts a piece of paper headed with the title "America's enemies list" and have Dick Cheney's name crossed out, with George W. Bush and a few others names below it.  Now, I don't think any billboard company would let me do that and the guy who I referred to is paying $1,000/month for six months.  But I'd consider tying in a message to being excessively cruel in comments about someone recently dead, because the media will consider it so outrageous and beyond decorum that they will have to cover it if it is sufficiently high-profile.

The key, I think, is to engage emotions and not intellect, to spur anger and hatred and not try to reason or to be clever.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 01:10:09 AM UTC

Democrats are the new Conservatives. (0.00 / 0)

Republicans are just kRaZy.

They only call it class war when we fight back.

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by: ezdidit @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 03:16:13 AM UTC

I'm so glad we're following up with this. (4.00 / 1)

I'm in favor of fine-tuning some of the excellent ideas we have (and welcoming new ones from anyone who's late to the party) in the next week or so to keep the momentum going.

I'm guessing the way this will play out as a practical matter is that we'll have one or two really good one-liners, and then one or two short and powerful ideas/themes to follow-up and support those - in the perhaps unlikely event that the person delivering the one-liner is allowed the opportunity to elaborate.

I doubt there will be any shortage of ideas about how to get these out once we're ready for launch. It will be more a matter of strategic organizing, probably on multiple fronts.

I'm happy to help in any way needed with the internal process.
Thanks again, Paul.

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by: Oaktown Girl @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 03:50:54 AM UTC

Well, I'm Not Going To Stop (0.00 / 0)

But I am sort of fumbling around right now.  But that's why it's good to be part of a community.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 03:54:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's a cheeky idea, perhaps (4.00 / 1)

Your post reminded me of a link I found the other day going through email newsletters:

http://www.textsfromlastnight....

Perhaps you could set up a site, automate the technology (e.g. voting), only let people post (if you do) if they identify themselves on the back end (at least).

If this is a stupid idea, I at least heartily recommend the link regardless of your marital or relationship status. People do say the stupidest, most gross things. In a fun way. I found the link in a story about an iPhone app, Tiger Text, that lets you text rude impertinent messages to your friends and loved ones with confidence those messages will disappear magically.

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by: TSlavin @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 14:44:23 PM UTC

I also had a suggestion in that thread that was fairly popular (4.00 / 1)

and how it differed from the others was that it refused to play defense.

It doesn't try to play the other side's game by "responding" to the bogus "charge" of "elitism".  It doesn't try to disprove it, because the people you are talking aren't looking to play that game and will just run roughshod over your proof.

The only way to play that game is not to let yourself be run roughshod over.  It is to get up in their face and not back down.  It is Rove-esque in that it hits them at what is supposed to be their strong point, something we do all too infrequently.

Taxes are the price of living in a civilized society .  Just pay your damned taxes - and above all spare us your damned whining!

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

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by: sTiVo @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 17:40:37 PM UTC

Street Theater (0.00 / 0)

and video posts

Like "Billionaires for Bush" - only directed at the plutocrats, personally.

Why not ambush bank execs that got huge bonuses and ask them what they did to earn them. Take a page from the anti-choice folks. Get some placards made up of our homeless citizens and those suffering from lack of healthcare and fill up the manicured lawns of the banksters with images of those their bonuses and practices have hurt.

Or, use that billboard approach - paste their pictures up and make it look like "Americas Most Wanted". Hell, parody Americas Most Wanted targeting whomever one chooses.

Of course - do all of this with corporate sponsorship, so that when the shit hits the fan you can hide behind the USSC.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Sun Feb 28, 2010 at 18:12:22 PM UTC

Re: The Project (4.00 / 1)

Hey Paul,

    I think it's more helpful to make this an ongoing process. The trouble with Liberals and our biggest downfall is our propensity to give up readily. We try to make up for it by overengrossing ourselves in new concepts or technical jargon when what is required is tenacity, agility, and adaptability. I would be more than willing to take part in the internal process, but this should definitely emphasize dialogue as much as possible so that we are constantly mulling options and forcing ourselves to adapt our message. As for suggestions, one thing I think has not happened enough is just a constant refrain that the economic crisis follows precisely from Reaganomics, not in spite of it. This is why you see Know-Nothing Teabaggers parading around like idiots and the media giving them a semblance of credibility. They advocate more of the same that caused the mess, yet no one is pointing that out and worse, people seem to have forgotten it only because we allowed them to. The crux of Repug power is the belief that their delusional economics works. It is also the cancerous belief that has prevented our Public Option from taking form. The crisis is proof positive that Repugonomics doesn't work. This absolutely must be consistently and constantly pointed out. It undercuts anything they say and anything the cursed Blue Dogs try to hide behind.

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by: smcclurk @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 02:58:42 AM UTC

I'd be happy to help with any internal stuff (0.00 / 0)

I think it's a great idea.

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by: sophoebe @ Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 17:43:44 PM UTC

I love "telling the truth isn't elitist" (4.00 / 1)

"It isn't elitist to tell the truth" would make a great bumper-sticker, and its contrast to the conservative MO couldn't be starker. Here's my stab at an "elevator speech" based on it:

Many conservatives would prefer to hide their activities behind a "You can't handle the truth!" façade, telling, "noble lies" (see Plato's Republic) to those who they view as the common rabble. (Scary stories about Kenyan socialists, Czarist bureaucrats, and "death panels" are just a few examples of conservative condescension disguised as concern.)

We liberals believe in speaking truth to power, and in trusting Americans to make their own decisions. Putting facts in the hands of the people is the exact opposite of elitism: an informed electorate and an empowered citizenry are the foundation of democracy.

They believe that you must be manipulated, and need to have your choices restricted by coerced ignorance or by media misinformation; we believe that you can think for yourself if given half a chance.

think differently.

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by: cognitive dissident @ Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 03:17:04 AM UTC