Who's Accountable When Kids Don't Learn

by: jeffbinnc

Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 16:01


Last week, President Barak Obama proclaimed that the firing of teachers at a Rhode Island school was a rational and effective solution for low test scores and high dropout rates. He said, "If a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability." The "accountability" that the President is referring to continues the drumbeat of rants against educators and schools that has been ongoing for decades. Only now, the rant has been adopted systemically as policy by the federal government in the form of Race to the Top and other incentives.

Goaded by the prospect of getting a share of the multi-billion-dollar RTT funds offered by Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, state leaders, mayors, and school superintendants are implementing "turnaround models" for school improvement that rely on taking severe measures, measures that make educators primarily bear the full burden of school reform.

All four turnaround options being pushed by Mr. Duncan have profound effects on teachers and how they do their jobs, if they're lucky enough to be left with one. And all four are based on a notion that improvement will happen only through threatening educators.

This whole notion of making increased "accountability" the leverage point to push failing schools toward success is borne from the musings of free-market enthusiasts and corporate leaders like Bill Gates. The rationale, we are told, is that "our students are falling behind those in other countries." The reason for this is that schools lack the "marketplace accountability of schools competing with one another." So therefore, "accountability is sorely needed," but educators so "resist the idea" that they need to be subjected to harsher threats and incentives. Never mind that the record for turnaround approaches used in the private sector has shown no "evidence of boosting performance."

The desire to make schools "more accountable" has been so broadly accepted by politicians and the media that virtually no one outside of the education profession speaks out against it. But the finger pointing solves nothing other than continuing to give life to the notion that education is something other than a shared, community obligation - in short, that we're all accountable for educating children.

jeffbinnc :: Who's Accountable When Kids Don't Learn
The irony that President Obama made his remark in the headquarters of the US Chamber of Commerce seems to have been totally lost on the reporters covering the event. For if there is any sector in the American economy that resists accountability it's big business. Examples of the utter irresponsibility of US corporations abound. A year after investment bankers led the US economy over the cliff into the Great Recession, those very same bankers rewarded themselves with record-high bonuses. Architects of our nation's dilapidated health care system continue to give themselves raises as more and more Americans go without health insurance. And even when business leaders are let go, they're rewarded with unbelievable amounts of largesse.

There's this standard line that businesses are successful because they're accountable to their customers, and educators aren't held to that same standard. But this quaint notion that businesses operate under the tenant that "the customer is always right" was thrown to the financier wolves of Wall Street years ago - if it ever really was true to begin with. If you believe that businesses are successful by pleasing customers then just try to get someone at Google on the phone. Businesses succeed for a variety of reasons, but total abdication to the will of customers isn't one of them.

Free market cheerleaders are always quick to point to "teacher tenure" as particularly evil because of its resistance to marketplace forces that periodically purge employment in private industries. But attempts to fire anyone from the executive echelons of the business world are no less difficult - and are often accompanied with way more in legal fees - than getting rid of incompetent teachers. What critics of teacher tenure are really asking for is not parity with the private sector but the same subjugation that factory and farm workers had before the existence of unions and labor laws.

Some have suggested that parents and school board members need to be more of the focal point for hiring and firing teachers. They point out, as Mary Elizabeth Williams did Friday at Salon.com that "when Obama talks about accountability, he's supposed to be talking about accountability to us" (emphasis not added.) But can you imagine what the results would be if parent-teacher firing boards became the rule in schools? How could I, for instance, make an impartial decision about the statistics teacher who almost flunked my kid in his senior year in high school? How could a school board made up of people who don't believe in evolution make an impartial decision about the biology faculty?

The contention that educators are solely responsible for student achievement is so easily refutable that one wonders why the argument has to be made. Even parents and students in the Rhode Island school district where teachers were threatened with being lined up and summarily fired recognize the fallacy of this argument:

"'It's not fair,' said Angela Perez, who has a daughter at the high school. 'They shouldn't be punished because the students are lazy. The teachers care so much,' said Perez's daughter, Ivannah Perez, a recent Central Falls graduate. 'I've seen them stay after school. I've seen them struggle. It's the students. They don't want to learn.'"

As noted in comments by a teacher responding to this article, the fallacy of holding teachers solely accountable for achievement seems obvious on its face:

"I once read an article where a teacher was talking to a dentist, about a 'new' rating system that would list dentists according to how many cavities their patients had at the ages 4, 8, 12, 18 and so on. The dentist was shocked and argued 'But I have no control over how they care for their teeth! Parents might let their kids eat sweets, not make them regularly brush or floss. They could be genetically pre-disposed to tooth disease. I can only do so much and control a small portion of these kids lives!' The teacher said, 'Exactly why you can't expect a teacher to be the only factor in a child's success in school.'"

There's ample research pointing to a broad array of factors that affect student academic achievement. For sure, teachers are a significant factor but in no way the sole determinant of success. In fact, there's evidence that teachers may be too docile and overly willing to take on the blame of failing schools.

Surveys of teachers show that the vast majority of them feel obligated to "prepare students for more than high school graduation;" in other words, do more than just get kids to graduation. And they don't particularly feel that they need to be paid more to do so. What they would appreciate is, as Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, put it, the "tools, time, trust, and support to do their jobs well."

Even the much-maligned teacher unions are generally falling in line with the dictates of prevailing policies. Despite opposition to Race to the Top from teacher unions in New York and California, most state union chapters support their state's proposals to compete for the funds.

In contrast to the image of lazy teachers and obstinate unions being painted by politicians and the media, the reality for most educators is more like what principal Judy Grace relates in comments to a recent article:

"How do we justify tying promotion, retention, and evaluation for teachers to student growth when we continue to look the other way when it comes to the complete breakdown of the nuclear family and common values in our society? These are the same teachers who spent an entire Sunday the weekend before Christmas this year cleaning the home of one of our family[ies] in order to rid it of the infestation of head lice. If we were afforded the luxury of just addressing our students' academic needs, it would make sense to evaluate teachers on academic growth. I worked with a fourth grade student in my office last evening until 5:30 because his drug addicted mother won't get up in the morning to get him to school. He's a sweet little boy who spent the morning watching a movie instead of coming to school. This is the kind of challenge my staff face everyday."

So what this "blame and shame game" against educators is really all about is a failure of our leadership to speak the truth that when kids don't learn, we're all responsible. Everyone in the community, whether it's in Rhode Island or Long Island, - from parents and politicians to businesses and the school board - needs to be part of the solution and take on the collective burden for educating kids. But instead, our leadership is being complicit in a corporate-backed effort to destroy public education that is spreading across the country.

Tags: , , , , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Running Education "Like A Business" -- They Never Say WHICH Business! (4.00 / 6)
Enron?

Blackwater?

AIG?

GM?

Long Term Capital Management?

Inquiring minds want to know!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Case in point (4.00 / 3)
In the next county over from me in NC, the largest school district in the state has been taken over by a school board of rightwing blowhards who were backed by Jesse Helms era Republicans that used their corporate backing to dominate an election where only a miniscule percentage of the electorate bothered to turn out. Among the new board's first decisions was to end a diversity policy that was the envy of the nation and had achieved great gains in achievement for minority students. When their sweeping, authoritative decisions so alienated the district's renowned superintendent that he resigned, one of their deep-pocketed Republican supporters celebrated the prospect of hiring "someone from business" to replace him. Like maybe someone from Smithfield Foods, which is also located in the same county?

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Why Yes! (0.00 / 0)
That would be perfect!

I'm having a Pink Floyd flashback!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
Animals

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
My mom grew up in the Wake County school system in the 60's. (4.00 / 1)
Her high school was so atrocious then that they literally told her in her junior year that they had no classes left to teach her, so she got her GED and left for college a year early. Now that same school is on USN&WR's list of the nation's best high schools. Post-1970's Wake County schools were a phenomenal success story.

Now that same high school, in what's become a Raleigh suburb, will be incredibly overtaxed as it's forced to accommodate overnight growth as a result of the demise of Wake's busing program. This isn't just about the benevolent preservation of the interests of minority students. This wasn't in the best interests of the crassest, most selfish-minded white suburbanites, either. It's a senseless erosion of what had been a landmark tribute to the efficacy of progressive policies.

As a minor point, I don't believe that Smithfield Foods in located in Wake County, but rather in the significantly less affluent less areas of the state.


[ Parent ]
My bad. (0.00 / 0)
Smithfield Foods is indeed in Bladen county, not Wake. Oh well, it's still a good analogy for what that bunch of crazies on the school board is trying to turn Wake county schools into. Thanks for providing more of the backstory to this thread.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Accountability In The Age of Obama (4.00 / 4)
Listening to Joe Stiglitz on a local Pacifica program is getting me all riled up, so's I just can't help myself:

Are You:

    (A) A Republican? Score 1.

    (B) Responsible for a major national catastrophe? Score 1.

    (C) In the top 1% of income-earners? Score 1.

    (D) Able to write five-figure checks? Score 1.

    (E) Six-figure checks? Score 5.

    (F) Seven-figure checks? Score 25.

Did you score 0?

    (A) Yes: You will be held accountable.

    (B) No: Did you score:
      (B1) 3 or less? Keep up the good work!

      (B2) 4 or more? What can we do for you?

      (B3) 9 or more? We're not worthy!


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

ew, I get a point! (4.00 / 1)
I can write five figure checks!  

You don't have to actually give them to anyone, do you?  Or have them clear?


[ Parent ]
Not If Your Name Is "Bernie Madoff" (4.00 / 1)
Is that you, Bernie?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Unless the pupils tests scores when they entered high school (4.00 / 3)
were equivalent to those in a successful school, firings at the high school level is a strange place to start applying accountability IMO.

The end result of this idea will be that even fewer good teachers will be willing to teach in "at risk" schools. But then again, this by design is probably geared to privatize all education in America.


"fewer good teachers will be willing to teach in 'at risk' schools" (4.00 / 5)
Absolutely! Obama/Duncan policies are so blatantly nonsensical that one almost has to assume that another agenda is at foot. And of course privatizing education is high on the list of possible candidates as it has always been a goal for corporate America.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Yes, they want to kill public education (4.00 / 1)
The rich without kids will pay much less property taxes.  The rich with kids will spend money for them for good schools, insuring they continue in their class.  The poor?  Ah, f*** the poor.  You don't need an education to ask, "Want fries with that?"  The computers don't even need words, they use pictures now.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
One would think... (4.00 / 1)
if the worry is our schools are falling behind the schools of other nations, our first step would be to figure out what other nations are doing; our second step would be to emulate that.

Perhaps I'm not up in the world of international education, but I haven't heard much of mass teacher firings from other nations.


Oh You Poor Fool! (4.00 / 1)
Other nations have far less in the way of private education than we do.

So it was never on the menu to look at how they did things.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Actually (4.00 / 3)
The case for US schools "falling behind the schools of other nations" is extremely shaky. It has been thoroughly dispensed with by the late Gerald Bracey:

"First, comparing nations on average scores is a pretty silly idea. It's like ranking runners based on average shoe size or evaluating the high school football team on the basis of how fast the average senior can run the 40-yard dash. Not much link to reality. What is likely much more important is how many high performers you have. On both TIMSS math and science, the U. S. has a much higher proportion of 'advanced' scorers than the international median although the proportion is much smaller than in Asian nations.

Second, test scores, at least average test scores, don't seem to be related to anything important to a national economy. Japan's kids have always done well, but the economy sank into the Pacific in 1990 and has never recovered.

Third, even if comparisons of average test scores were a meaningful exercise, it only looks at one dimension--the supply side. Predictably, the results gave rise to calls for more spending on science instruction. This ignores the fact that we have more scientists and engineers than we can absorb . . . Schools are doing a great job on the supply side. Business and industry are doing a lousy job on the demand side."



Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
God, I miss Bracey (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
True But (4.00 / 1)
Unless I'm sadly mistaken, there's one thing other countries do about education that far outstrips us:  They refrain from  driving themselves batty chasing phantoms.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Oh yeah (0.00 / 0)
there's that. But hey, there's another shiny object that's caught my attention. Sorry, what were you saying?

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
one thing we could do (0.00 / 0)
is stop teaching thinly-disguised religious claptrap ("intelligent design") as science.

Thing is, conservatives are willing to run for school boards and stack them with ideologues who then determine how the schools are run. Liberals don't understand, and in any case, are unwilling to do the dirty work.

It is a profound paradox of how the world works that authoritarian conservatives, who supposedly embrace a top-down model where leaders command and followers obey, are so effective at the grassroots level, while liberals, who supposedly embrace a decentralized model where decison-making authority is diffused between multiple groups, focus only on top-level offices (at national level and above) and scorn the grassroots where they could make an actual difference.


[ Parent ]
Teachers are incredibly important (4.00 / 1)
When researchers ran the numbers in dozens of different studies, every factor under a school's control produced just a tiny impact, except for one: which teacher the student had been assigned to. Some teachers could regularly lift their students' test scores above the average for children of the same race, class and ability level. Others' students left with below-average results year after year. William Sanders, a statistician studying Tennessee teachers with a colleague, found that a student with a weak teacher for three straight years would score, on average, 50 percentile points behind a similar student with a strong teacher for those years. Teachers working in the same building, teaching the same grade, produced very different outcomes. And the gaps were huge. Eric Hanushek, a Stanford economist, found that while the top 5 percent of teachers were able to impart a year and a half's worth of learning to students in one school year, as judged by standardized tests, the weakest 5 percent advanced their students only half a year of material each year.

The above quote is from an excellent NYT Magazine article focusing on identifying the skills that make for a great teacher and whether those skills can be taught.  This is critical, because there are a tremendous number of teachers who are paid very little for the work they do.  If we were to fire the bottom 25%, we would replace them with... who exactly?  More to the point, how is that going to help the students of the middle 50%?

While testing-heavy approaches can certainly boomerang, quantification is what allows us to understand what is going wrong.  Without that, we're simply groping in the dark.  Let's focus on well-controlled pilot studies examining ways of improving the performance of our existing teachers.  Yes, such an approach would eventually place responsibility on teachers to improve their performance, but would provide a tested path forwards rather than waving the firing stick in a poor imitation of the 'free market'. Considering that right now we offer pay raises for masters degrees that have literally no correlation with performance, I suspect data-driven approaches will improve the situation.

To put it bluntly, our nation's children deserve a better education than they're currently receiving.  I fail to see how those who resist taking steps to improve the quality of instruction are morally different from those who resist properly funding schools.  Both teaching and resources have a tremendous impact on the quality of education; both should be provided.

My question for jeffbinnc and commenters is whether you believe teachers should be accountable for the test results of their students (with proper controls).  Should there be mandatory courses in classroom management for teachers who underperform year after year?  If a teacher is consistently in the bottom 10% for five years running, should they be encouraged to seek another profession?  If you believe this is wrong and unjust, please explain why, especially in light of the data above.  



Nobody denies some teachers are better than others! (4.00 / 1)
...But this is beside the point.  We're talking about comparing student performance across many different schools state- or nationwide, where student backgrounds and demographics will differ substantially and make a huge difference to the results!  When a whole school is labelled as "failing", it doesn't remotely mean all the teachers there are bad at their jobs.  That's the issue we need to address, which the Obama administration is totally ignoring.

[ Parent ]
Sure (4.00 / 5)
I agree that teachers are incredibly important. If you read all the links in my diary you would have learned about a 35 year metaanalysis of research by Robert Marzano that shows that the quality of instruction is the most influential factor affecting student achievement that is under the control of schools. Problem is, the most influential factors affecting student achievement aren't under the control of schools. So making teachers bear the full burden of failing schools is totally unjust and ineffective. Regarding your question about teacher accountability for test results, there's no way that any reputable educator would make drastic decisions about a teacher or a student based on a single test score. Instead, a balance of factors has to be considered. Even Arne Duncan has acknowledged this. And BTW, teachers -- whether they're deemed failing or not -- are already required to take mandatory courses in classroom management and other performance areas just to keep up their certification. So I'm not sure what your point is other than maybe extending the specious argument that there are lots of incompetent teachers being coddled by lazy school administrators. Of course there are bad teacher who have to be dealt with. Just like in any other profession. But what's being proposed by the Obama administration is not a clear cut way to identify the bottom 10% and expeditiously deal with them. Because actually, they don't know how to do that.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Clarification (4.00 / 1)
Evidently I have not made myself entirely clear.  My apologies.

My question for jeffbinnc and commenters is whether you believe teachers should be accountable for the test results of their students (with proper controls).  Should there be mandatory courses in classroom management for teachers who underperform year after year?  If a teacher is consistently in the bottom 10% for five years running, should they be encouraged to seek another profession?

The "with proper controls" bit assumes that student family background, socioeconomics, local neighbourhoods, etc. etc. are properly controlled for.  Was this done with NCLB?  No, of course not, because NCLB was poorly conceived; it focuses on the level of failing schools rather than failing teachers.  If a school is failing, it is due to the factors being controlled for, plus any failings on the part of the teachers.  Punishing all teachers at a school without verifying that they are subpar relative to teachers at similar schools with similar students is foolish.  I believe we are in agreement there.  However, it is one thing to criticize the administration's approach, and it is another to offer constructive solutions.  I am suggesting that identifying and remedying teacher failures on an individual level is part of that solution.  You appear to disagree, presumably

Because actually, they don't know how to do that.

And here's the crux of the matter.  You don't think it is possible to evaluate whether or not a teacher is doing a good job.  Why is this?  Presumably Marzano had some method of quantifying the effects of teacher performance on student learning.  If not, no conclusions could possibly be drawn on the comparative effects of factors within the school's control.

Forgive me for coming across as frustrated, but I view this as a complete institutional failure on the part of schools of education.  Most universities have them, but evidently they shun the use of real-world data.  Coming from a hard-sciences background, this seems an egregious waste of time and resources on the part of the "social sciences" simply because "oh, the subject is too complex; we couldn't possibly attempt to quantify it!" which has led to rather ineffectual teacher education.  Yes, there are exceptions, but we are discussing the systemic failures of education schools as a group.

In the spring of 1986, a group of university deans sat in an apartment near the University of Illinois at Chicago, tossing bets into a hat. They had come together to put the final touches on a manifesto that would denounce their own institutions - the more than 1,200 schools of education - for failing to adequately train the country's teachers.

The Holmes Group's report was almost twenty-five years ago.  Nearly every dean signed on.  And yet "reform proved difficult to implement."

Now, you are an expert on this subject; I am not.  What am I missing here?  Statistics is a rather advanced field these days; tests are clearly nowhere close to a perfect measure of achievement, but they are one measure and they mean we have lots of data.  Why haven't the schools of education bothered to analyze the performance of their graduates relative to other teachers?  Can they not request the test data?

Step 1)  Develop a number of different approaches to teacher education emphasizing different skills.  
Step 2)  Evaluate graduate performance on the job after program completion relative to teachers at the schools they went on to join.
Step 3)  Determine which programs proved the most effective.
Step 4)  Create new programs that are variations on the most effective ones, recombining points of emphasis.
Step 5)  Repeat steps 1-4 every 5-10 years.

Diversification, selection, amplification.  It's the evolutionary algorithm, and it works.  Yes, the difficult part is the selection; you get what you select for, which is not necessarily what you want.  But the data exists.  If they were willing to look themselves in the mirror twenty-five years ago, why haven't they even tried?

If I have come across as "extending the specious argument that there are lots of incompetent teachers being coddled by lazy school administrators," I apologize.  But please extend the courtesy of acknowledging that teachers do matter and consequently we should investigate methods of improving their performance.  If we are ruling that out because we don't have effective metrics for teacher performance, then we're acknowledging that we have no metrics for educational achievement.  Maybe that's so, but I will need to be convinced.

Again, I apologize for any offense and look forward to your response.  

 


[ Parent ]
Good grief, no need to apologize. (4.00 / 1)
We're all just hashing things out here and none of us owns the label of "expert." There happen to be a number of approaches to teacher evaluation that are research based and focused on the qualities and practices of teachers that tend to yield higher student achievement. Here's one and another. (Full disclosure, the publisher is a client of mine.)

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Thanks, but (0.00 / 0)
... that's not exactly what I had in mind; I was more interested in your thoughts on effective teacher education or the utter lack thereof.  As for apologies, I find they keep a debate from getting too heated to remain productive.  Social science types tend to be sensitive when the hard sciences accuse them of flailing about without any numbers, and especially so when biologists purport to explain how things work.  

[ Parent ]
Both texts I referenced (4.00 / 1)
are used in teacher education programs. Makes sense that the standards that teachers are being evaluated on are also the standards they are educated on. Scapegoating teacher education programs is another common theme in the Obama administration's dialogue about school reform. And again, despite the potential merits of the argument, it tends not to be facts-based in any way whatsoever. For instance, research shows that a teacher's grasp of subject matter has had little influence on whether they improve student achievement. Yet, a lot of the standards for assessing teacher quality tend to be based on levels of teacher knowledge of subject matter. No one is really confronting the issues at hand.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
The problem is using standardized tests to evaluate students (4.00 / 6)
because these tests are designed to have failing students.  They are designed on a curve system to find the average score and the average  of the distributions of the scores and then change the actual score, using these findings, into standard scores.  With standard scores half of all respondents will be below average.  A sizable group will always be failing.

This is true even if the raw scores could be 0 to 1000 and every respondent got over 900 out of 1000.

Furthermore, as a mental health counselor who works with students in the schools, I have seen the horrid results of this way of using tests like these.  It HURTS education because teachers end up with deadening curriculums designed to "teach to the test."  The goal isn't for kids to learn to think and understand the world around them.  It's for them to be able to get the right answer on a standardized test.  The more we do this, the more kids hate learning and see it as totally irrelevant to their real lives.  Schools under pressure feel compelled to spend more and more time on endless drills and cut out the enrichment programs of music, art, and behavioral health that have been proven to increase children and youth's interest in learning and ability to learn.

Educate, Agitate, Organize, Mobilize, Act!


[ Parent ]
Bingo! (0.00 / 0)
Thanks so much for this contribution, which is right in every single way.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Well said. Oh, great post, BTW. (4.00 / 2)
In my own amateurish perspective, this whole "accountability" thing is increasingly phony. IMO, any person, in any locality, can come up with a pretty long list of factors to place blame on. So while teachers obviously figure prominently in any discussion of education, it's just one cog in the machine and it's already a more accountable cog than any of the others, IMO.

Community issues are almost completely ignored by the whingers on the right. People don't want to pay taxes--so schools are underfunded. Hardly anyone wants to deal with the funding inequalities among different SES strata. Some people don't care one whit about what their kids are learning or not. Textbooks. Jeebus, the textbooks--and that's an industry, not a community.

So I don't see how this "blame the teachers" thing amounts to anything other than providing political cover for a broader, more overarching agenda, in which teachers actually represent political opposition. In other words, they're in the way of those who seek to destroy liberal education and liberal democracy along with it.

Every time I see a fact-based argument about education, it seems the neo-libs always lose unless they can just go nuts on propaganda. But in the end, they will win, because this isn't about facts, logic and actually educating children. It's about who controls the system and how children are indoctrinated into the neo-liberal paradigm of "Markets über alles."

No one understands the importance, to a functioning democracy, of sound pedagogical methods better than teachers, yes? That's why they have to be brought to heel and their unions have to be destroyed.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
"Community issues are almost completely ignored by the whingers on the right." (4.00 / 1)
Because they don't believe in community. You know, every man for himself. And this insight on your part is truly award winning (Oscar night reference):
"So I don't see how this 'blame the teachers' thing amounts to anything other than providing political cover for a broader, more overarching agenda, in which teachers actually represent political opposition. In other words, they're in the way of those who seek to destroy liberal education and liberal democracy along with it."

Other than total delusion (which is not out of the question), what could be the rationale?

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
privatize education (0.00 / 0)
privatize roads, privatize forests and parks, privatize water, privatize electricity, privatize the post office, privatize firefighters and police, privatize health care, privatize the goddamn air we breathe.

It's the 'Merikan way!  


Great work, and thank you, Jeffbinnc (4.00 / 1)
I just wanted to make a post thanking you for your fantastic posts on this topic, and your thoughtful polite responses to the comments.

I'm humbled. (4.00 / 1)
Thanks for extending your kind thoughts.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Comments on Marzano? (0.00 / 0)
The link you cite on teacher effectiveness indicates that Marzano 1) believes that schools can overcome the effects of student backgrounds, and 2) that charter schools are the way to force implementation of research-based reform.

The first point tends to be supported by the results of the KIPP schools, and is incredibly encouraging: it may be possible to overcome many of the negative effects of family breakdown, lack of parental involvement, lack of respect for education, etc.  Indeed, it seems that schools with sufficiently talented, motivated, and trained teachers can almost completely compensate for socioeconomic and cultural disadvantages when they are given enough resources.  If society is failing our children, teachers plus tax dollars could conceivably fix it.  That's not very fair to the teachers, but it's probably easier to raise taxes and improve teacher training than it is to fix socioeconomic disparities and cultural anti-education biases.

How do we get there?  Do we understand what it takes to train KIPP-quality teachers?  Can we leverage the successes of this sort of investment to obtain additional funding?  And finally, linking to the second point, is there a way to do this without going all-in for charter schools and vouchers as Marzano apparently favors?

Furthermore, have you read Marzano's book?  I inquire because he claims that 84.7% of students attending the 99th percentile of schools will pass a test which one would normally expect half of them to fail.  In other words, the mean of students at the excellent school is shifted by exactly one standard deviation relative to a normal school.  This seems... suspicious.  Highly, highly suspicious.  As though he defined the normal distribution of schools such that the 99th percentile would do exactly this.  Of course, the statistician doesn't get to do that; the shape of the normal distribution is defined by its mean and standard deviation - in other words, actual school performance of the schools.  Furthermore, there's no reason that school performance is inherently normally distributed; sure it almost certainly is, but it doesn't have to be.  He claims the explanation is presented in technical note 3 on p 190, but since I don't have access to the book, I was wondering if you could explain or simply give your impression of Marzano; this makes it sound a bit fishy.  Your thoughts?


I think you misread Marzano. (0.00 / 0)
He clearly points to academic background knowledge as a target for remediation but doesn't discount the strong effects that other student-based factors have on academic achievement. In other words, schools have their work cut out for them and they have to focus on what is most apt to yield results. Such as intensive instruction in academic background knowledge. Because they can't change the nature of students given to them, they need to focus on what is under their control in terms of curriculum and instruction. The endorsement you read into this for charter schools is simply lost on me. Sorry. Regarding your contention that "84.7% of students attending the 99th percentile of schools will pass a test which one would normally expect half of them to fail" is highly suspicious, I see the rejoinder to this played out every year when low socio-economic, minority students in my highly-rated school district (which is in the 99th percentile of districts) achieve graduation rates that are significantly higher than those of low socio-economic, minority students in other districts. I don't have the book close at hand but I don't find Marzano's conclusion to be far fetched at all.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Not quite it (0.00 / 0)
I'm not objecting to the reasonableness of an improvement of one standard deviation, I am suggesting that to have the 99th percentile of schools (roughly 3 standard devs up) display exactly one standard deviation improvement looks like doctored data (or at least an arbitrarily defined normal distribution rather than one based on empirical results).  Were I to see that in a scientific paper I was reviewing I would definitely ask a statistician friend to look it over very closely with a skeptical eye.

As for Marzano,

Assertion 3: The schools that are highly effective produce results that almost entirely overcome the effects of student background.

Specifically, these schools provide interventions that are designed to overcome student background characteristics that might impede learning. These interventions are detailed in Section III of this book. For now, it is sufficient to say that this is a remarkable possibility-one that provides great hope for public education.

No, he doesn't discount the role of other student-based factors, but his entire premise is that the very best schools can almost completely overcome them.  These sorts of statements make me hopeful that we might be able to do something without draconian cultural intervention measures.  We might need to actually come up with decent funding, but we could conceivably provide some real opportunities for these kids to succeed without outright taking them away from their dysfunctional families (clearly not an option).

As for charter schools, Marzano states his belief that public educators can do it (reform), but expresses some awfully strong support for Chubb and Moe, who assert precisely the opposite:

Although this book asserts that public educators are up to the challenge of implementing what we know about effective schooling, Chubb and Moe assert that bureaucratic underpinnings of public schools doom to failure any attempts at school reform:

Although this book asserts that public educators are up to the challenge of implementing what we know about effective schooling, Chubb and Moe assert that bureaucratic underpinnings of public schools doom to failure any attempts at school reform:

. . . we can only believe that the current "revolution" in American public education will prove a disappointment. It might have succeeded had it actually been a revolution, but it was not and was never intended to be, despite the lofty rhetoric. (p. 228)

They ultimately conclude that school choice (presumably in the form of vouchers) is the only viable way to implement the findings from the research.

Chubb and Moe offer compelling evidence. In brief, they demonstrate that the more district-level control or constraints put on a school, the lower the chances of the school being organized in an effective manner. According to Chubb and Moe, centralized control over personnel can be particularly debilitating to a school's effectiveness...

... It is a small step from here to the necessity of vouchers and charter schools. Much of Chubb and Moe's argument has been criticized as "ideologically driven" (Berliner & Biddle, 1995, p. 75) as opposed to objectively driven by research results, but I believe their point is well taken.

Hence my comment regarding Marzano's apparent support for charter schools.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the clarification. (0.00 / 0)
I'm not a statistician or a scientist so I just don't share your suspicions regarding Marzano's presentation of the data. Regarding your reading of Marzano's endorsement of the Chubb, Moe work, you've made a good point, but I just know from following Marzano's writings and work for well over a decade that he works almost exclusively with public educators so I'd be hesitant to read as much into this passage as you have.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Fair enough, thanks (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Great discussion! n/t (0.00 / 0)


Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
My lament on the big picture of education reform (4.00 / 1)
I think these "teacher accountability" moves are desperate attempts by the government to squeeze more value out of already oversqueezed and underpaid teachers, and I don't think it will work. I like to rant at length about this issue, but I'll compress the rant to one good question:

How will these reforms make highly qualified people want to go into teaching?

I mean, that's what we want, right? So why are we not even asking this question? Don't we see that any reform is doomed to fail if it's based on just trying to squeeze more blood out of the teachers we already have? The reason why we don't ask this basic question is because the answer will involve a new culture in teaching, where it becomes a highly paid and highly respected profession. And that's just not on the table for Obama or anyone else who's realistic about US politics.

Instead, teacher salaries will at best stay the same, and the disrespect with which we treat teachers will actually grow thanks to the proposed reforms. We are infantilizing their profession by setting up these insulting carrot-and-stick incentive structures. It's like we're forcing the teachers themselves to regress into childhood, by taking away their autonomy, making them take standardized tests and issuing them report cards. Now some want to put them in detention for naughty behavior? How could they expect that any competent person with career options and a shred of self-respect would want to enter such a system? Can you imagine doing something this rude and paternalistic to doctors? Or (for fuck's sake!) bankers? They'd say "Haha! But seriously, fuck off and let us do our jobs." We don't see teachers as people with a right to respond this way to insulting meddling, which shows just how much we disrespect their profession.

And we all know that we disrespect teaching. Our government rubs this in like no one else could. Because of this, teaching is a profession relegated to altruistic idealists (of whom there are too few, and they burn out quickly) and jaded people who had to accept a fallback job. No one else aspires to be a teacher, and why would they? None of these reforms do a single thing to change that, and in many cases make the incentives for entering the profession even worse.

I'm not saying I have a better plan, because there is no way that anything I would propose could pass with our government. It would just be too expensive, and the improvement in the results would only be clear when seen on a generational scale.

What we do now it shockingly counterproductive. The whole "teachers are heroes" recruiting campaign is ass backwards. Any smart person who is good at stuff looks at that and rightly says: "Fuck that, I don't want to be a hero. I just want a good job. I guess that means I'll just stick with programming/management/engineering/accounting/etc."

But at least that campaign is truthful: Teachers are really expected to be heroes, ready to sacrifice their very lives and dignity. That's the problem. How is someone expected to lay down their comfortable lives for something like this - to be humiliated by some nitwit principals and schoolboards? Teaching will start getting the sort of blood they need when they can truly say: "Come teach! It's an easy job that pays well, nobody fucks with you, you don't have to work too many hours and you don't need to be a hero. You just need to be very competent." But we are so far from this that it's just sad.


"desperate attempts by the government to squeeze more value out of already oversqueezed and underpaid teachers" (0.00 / 0)
I think its rather more insidious than this. I think this is a deliberate attempt to brake the backs of teachers unions and dismantle public education so it can be given over piece-by-piece to corporations.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox