Kucinich to vote yes

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 10:21


Just now, Representative Dennis Kucinich announced he would vote yes on the Senate health bill and the reconciliation fix to that bill.  Greg Sargent:

"In the past week it's become clear that the vote on the final bill will be very close," Kucinich, who voted No last time because of the lack of the public option, said at a presser moments ago, adding that he would have to vote "not on the bill as I would like to see it, but as it is."

"However, after careful discussions with President Obama, Speaker Pelosi" and others, Kucinich said, "I've decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation."

It is unclear at this time if he won any concessions.  If he didn't win them yesterday, he isn't ever going to win them during this fight, because the text of the bill was scheduled to be finished yesterday.

This brings the total "yes" and "lean yes" supporters of the bill up to 208.  Eight away from passage.

Update: More from Greg Sragent. Kucinich switched out of "compassion," didn't receive any specific promises:

"I left it with a real sense of compassion for our president and what he's going through," he said. "We have to be compassionate towards those who are called upon to make decisions for this nation. It's not an easy burden that he's taken up.

Kucinich said Obama didn't make any promises to take up the public option later.

"What he committed to was to continue to work with me on the broad concerns that I have," he said. "He didn't make any specific commitment."

Donna Brazile flags an interesting quote from Kucinich:

"I have taken a detour in supporting this bill, but I know the destination."
Chris Bowers :: Kucinich to vote yes

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Kucinich to vote yes | 53 comments
Now we know (4.00 / 3)
why we are where we are.
"this bill sucks, but I'm voting for it anyway" (4.00 / 2)
well at least I can add another item to my "glad I don't live in Ohio" list
ERISA (4.00 / 1)
Kucinish carefully answered a broad question about concessions to him for his vote in a way that did not close the door to him having asked for and gotten a deal on ERISA.  He answered in terms of denying anything particular to him or his district.  And, it seems that both he and the WH are aware of the blowback on the Louisana Purchase and had gamed out what would be said to avoid stepping in a similar pile on ERISA.
the chess has now entered the 13th dimension, I see (4.00 / 8)
it's all a secret plan to do progressive things!
[ Parent ]
Yes, the Secret Pony Plan! (4.00 / 2)
We just have to wait a liiiiittle bit longer, and it'll all be revealed to be a HUGE progressive victory!

Join the fight to give students a real voice on campus: Forstudentpower.org.
[ Parent ]
Obama's fooled us all (4.00 / 3)
this giveaway to corporations is secretly the US National Health Service

he's crafty!

[ Parent ]
I thought that too going in to the press conference (4.00 / 1)
If he got a concession, it would need to be on the down low because the bill needs conservadems for passage. Passage requires Kucinich to look beaten.

off topic: Senate just passed final jobs bill 68 ayes.

John McCain won't insure children

[ Parent ]
Exactly (4.00 / 2)
We are never allowed to win.  Never ever.  That's how they keep things the way they are so damn tenaciously.

Figuring out how to be a progressive college graduate transplant to Ohio:  http://citizenobie.wordpress.com/
[ Parent ]
I really hope you're right about that (4.00 / 1)
and something like an ERISA waiver comes into attention after the bill passes.

I also really hope that liberals can actually slip things into the bill without anyone (i.e. conservatives) noticing.  If we can do that we might as well put in fuckin single payer while we're at it.

[ Parent ]
Something as opposed to nothing… (4.00 / 1)
It was clearly spun as a bone to the President, like Kucinich is helping out someone who is taking a beating. I think the fear is that once things go horribly in the November midterms, the President needs to have at least one legislative victory under his belt because post-election gridlock is gonna be 1000 times more grim. The fact that it's a compromised victory doesn't seem to matter much.  

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams
[ Parent ]
Louisiana Purchase = ERISA? (4.00 / 1)
Seriously?
[ Parent ]
Of Course Not (0.00 / 0)
Only McConnell, Boehner, Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, the Tea Party, etc. would think so.  It is just another false-issue fight that would be better avoided.

Reconciliation and deem-pass are false issues because Republicans used the same means often when they ran the show.  That has not prevented the Republicans from using those issues now to frighten weak-kneed Conservadems.  They would do the same with a Kucinich-ERISA-Vote-Buying Deal.  Why give them that ammunition?

[ Parent ]
Why would we be afraid of them criticizing us? (4.00 / 3)
Other than cowardice.  Like Roosevelt said, "I welcome their hatred."  Anyone who won't for a bill or provision because the GOP doesn't like or might criticize it should not be voted for.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
How about if I wrote it this way? (0.00 / 0)
Other than cowardice.  Like Roosevelt said, "I welcome their hatred."  Any politician who won't vote for a bill or provision because the GOP doesn't like or might criticize it should not be voted for.


"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
Yeah, that's some killer ammunition right there (0.00 / 0)
I'd love to see these Republicans campaign against an ERISA waiver.

"Boo this language that would make it easier for states to create their own health care systems as the people of those states see fit... that also passed out of committee with significant Republican support... wait, what?"

[ Parent ]
Let's see if Pelosi brought some wavering ladies (4.00 / 1)
to the yes side:

Markey
Herseth-Sandlin
Kosmus
Kilpatrick

John McCain won't insure children

Is John Boccieri of OH included in the whip count? (4.00 / 2)
I ask because he was previously a no vote and he made some comments on CNN last night that makes me think that he will probably vote YES for the bill in the end. If he is not in the whip count that could bring it up to 209 lean yes or yes.
D Day has him lean yes as of yesterday (4.00 / 2)


John McCain won't insure children
[ Parent ]
Greg Sargent's Timing Issue (4.00 / 2)
This is just a guess...

If Obama and Kucinich agreed on the ERISA waiver, it would have been on Obama's trip to Ohio.  Then, the langauge goes into the mark-up yesterday and Kucinich announces today.  He would not have given his vote until the waiver was put in the reconciliation fix.

If that is the case, we will see it when the bill is released.

I repeat...just a guess.

Alright, everyone look for the waiver when the bill comes out! (4.00 / 3)
It'll be like Where's Waldo?
[ Parent ]
It won't be in there (4.00 / 1)
I think this was a "big picture" vote on Democrats getting a little momentum heading into November - enough to keep a legislative majority.

By voting no and making Obama a lamer duck than he already is isn't going to lead to any positive changes before 2012.

John McCain won't insure children

[ Parent ]
Kucinich is a Democrat (4.00 / 2)
He takes Democratic money to win.  He relies upon Democratic strength to get what he wants.  He may have significant differences with the President's wing of the party, but the end is here.  There is no more to be gained by continuing to defy the leadership of the party.  Kucinich is saying to his supporters that their is no victory if being part of those forces who would hand this president a career ending defeat.  With that in mind, he is saying this is, for him, a detour, not a destination.  As Ted Kennedy once said in similar circumstances, the dream lives on.  

I believe that unchanged this bill will chain Americans to a ruthless and enslaving system bent upon indenturing the American workers.  But this battle is over.  To gain more we have to change the party or build a new one.  We have to be more careful about who we support to lead our nation.  The big tent has proven to be a big failure.  We may have to endure periods of GOP rule in order to convince the center that there is a reason every other nation has eliminated the for profit health insurance industry.   If Barack Obama is the best progressives can hope for, we might as well not vote.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...

[ Parent ]
Enduring periods of GOP rule (4.00 / 1)
But this battle is over.

Correct.  It's not the war, it's a battle.

We may have to endure periods of GOP rule in order to convince the center that there is a reason every other nation has eliminated the for profit health insurance industry.

Let's not be too cavalier about this.  There is value in not starting all over again ten years down the road.  Let's not by Sisyphus and have the ball roll all the way to the bottom of the mountain.  

The problem here is that "the center" doesn't mind periods of GOP rule as much as we do.  In fact, it's what they always threaten us with:  "STFU or we'll feed you to the Republicans."  GOP rule will hurt us more than it will hurt them.  If it happens, it happens, and we need to be ready for it, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking this will teach "the center" any lessons.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
GOP rule is looking pretty good right now compared to this charade of selling horse shit as sweet chocolate (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
the next period of GOP rule will be the end of the tattered Republic (0.00 / 0)
The next Republican will be even more extreme than Bush and Cheney.

Keep in mind that Bush and Cheney instituted unilateral, "preemptive" war, unlimited spying on their own citizens, warrantless search-and-seizure, arbitrary detention, and torture.

Just take a minute to ponder the question: what's more extreme than that?

As for our problems, it's not a question of parties, but of changing the very structure of our political process. We have to figure out how to lobby Congress as effectively as the industries, because once the system breaks down, we will have only a very short window to push for reform, before some demagogue comes in with easy scapegoats and populist sweet talk to take us somewhere we really don't want to go.

[ Parent ]
Wow... this sucks. (4.00 / 2)

No concession = EPIC FAIL (4.00 / 3)
If Kucinich changed his vote...out of pity...

To borrow from Aliens, "Game over, man.  Game over."

This battle is over (4.00 / 1)
Progressives lost.  DK lost.  It is better to live to fight another day.  There have been many times in the past the left has come up short.  Perhaps you are too young to remember 1968 or 1980.  But the battle can continue.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
If only an iota of the energy spent to roll Kucinich (4.00 / 2)
had been spent early on to roll the Blue Dogs and conservadems.  Of course, that would've required Obama rolling himself, but still this just shows they can twist arms when they want to.  When it came to the coservadems, they didn't want to.
[ Parent ]
another rotating villain. (4.00 / 3)
the dems are so predictable and boring at this point.  progressive dems are useless, and don't in reality differ from centrists.   Got I can't wait for progressive regular people to start acting like greeks. The blogs aren't accomplishing anything!

My blog  
Dame, let's don't give up (4.00 / 1)
We've got next Nov and 2012 to extract a little revenge.  This party has to change it and I'm not hopeful the young people are up to it.  You know, the insurance mafia wouldn't have let it go this far if we didn't have them scared shitless.

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
another rotating villain. (4.00 / 1)
the dems are so predictable and boring at this point.  progressive dems are useless, and don't in reality differ from centrists.   Got I can't wait for progressive regular people to start acting like greeks. The blogs aren't accomplishing anything!

My blog  
They do differ from centrists… (0.00 / 0)
...problem is, they're strategically unsophisticated and clueless about when/how to apply pressure. "Tragic" is the word that comes to mind.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams
[ Parent ]
Better be a pay off (4.00 / 1)
People like Ben Nelson got bags of money so Dennis better get something too.

To many times the progressive reps get beat up by the WH while the blue dogs get the cash.

I kind of figured Dennis would switch at some point just because in the end he saw it as a party thing.

Do you really think Kucinich does this for bags of money? (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Clearly he had a price. (0.00 / 0)
Only he and the president know what it was.

It might have been as simple as a promise of federal money for his district, with the veiled threat to punish his district by withholding said federal money for the foreseeable future if he dared to vote against the bill.

No congressman can really afford to spurn federal largesse; you can't get reelected if you can't bring home any bacon for your constituents.  

[ Parent ]
As John Kerry pointed out a long time ago (0.00 / 0)
There comes a time when no one wants to be the last soldier to die in a failed war.  If surrendering against insurmountable odds is to be deemed a fault, then your cynicism is warranted.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
yes, no need to stand up for a just cause (4.00 / 2)
ah, America
[ Parent ]
Bags of money wasn't my point (4.00 / 1)
The point I was making was it seems the progressives get kicked in the nards while blue dogs get paid off to tow the party line.

I read where Kucinich got the plane ride so President Obama acknowledges Kucinich's importance enough to strong arm him during the flight from DC. That sparked my thought that Dennis would change his mind and vote yes.

[ Parent ]
That's all it takes, a plane ride on Air Force One? (0.00 / 0)
Fuck, I'll shuttle the Blue Dogs back and forth on AF1 for the rest of my Presidency if they'd vote for Medicare for All.
[ Parent ]
I saw John Shadegg (R-AZ) on Shuster's show (4.00 / 2)
ranting about the bill.

The GOP's talking points are already extremely well prepared. Shadegg said that the bill was "corrupt", and that it was a giveaway to the private insurers which were squeezing the people. Both of which are true.

Shuster then tried to trap him by asking him if he supported single-payer health care. Shadegg dodged the question and started offering the GOP's fake solutions--high risk pools, etc.--that actually serve to entrench private insurers and make things worse.

Very clever. They know the Democrats will never call them on their bluff by pointing out the fakeness of their fake solutions. That will allow them to pose as populists while still getting the money and support of the insurance companies.

They're kicking our asses on this already. Come November it'll be a bloodbath.

so he got nothing as expected (4.00 / 2)
i hope the above theory is correct but if it isn't then it is just one more nail in the coffin on the character of what passes for progressive character.
Only 3% of liberals oppose HCR bill (0.00 / 1)
Only three percent of liberals oppose passing the plan - down 16 points. That illustrates pretty clearly that those arguing that the bill shouldn't be passed because it's irrevocably flawed have lost the argument. -
Plum Line http://theplumline.whorunsgov....

So basically something like 99.5% of Americans think the HCR being voted on this weekend is too right wing or too much of a sellout to support

Echo chambers like FDL and to some extent...here...are causing delusions of grandeur, read that and realize how out of touch you are


Since when is reality (4.00 / 5)
a popularity contest? Just wait, when this "rally 'round the flag" moment passes, there's going to be a hell of a hangover.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
I don't think people get it (0.00 / 0)
It may be time, as DK says, to take a detour.  But in the end the people will have choose between indentured servitude and refighting this war.  I'm hoping it's sooner rather than later while we can still have rational change.  People like Chris Hedges who understand the dynamics of violent and uncontrolled social change are sounding the alarm bell louder and louder.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
the detour takes us off the path to Affordable Healthcare Heights (4.00 / 3)
and through the shady part of Letting For-Profit Corporations Decide What is Medically Necessary Village

I think we're lost, bro

[ Parent ]
Only for now friend. (4.00 / 1)
Because of my profession I've had to wage this war against these ruthless bastards for most of my life.  They'll eventually lose because they are unnecessary parasites.  Unfortunately, their tentacles have spread even to the liberal leadership. This will be a nasty and painful war before it is over.  That is why I feel no compassion to tolerate the likes of some of the mindless capitulators on this board.   If camaraderie with the likes of them or the neolib leadership of this party is the price of writing on this board or being a Democrat, I would willingly give up either.  My only hope is that we can stop them before we end up in revolution and totalitarianism.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
yeah, and at one point Bush had approval ratings of over 90% (4.00 / 4)
just after 9/11. Look how that ended up.

The poll numbers can change in the blink of an eye--and they will too, within about fifteen minutes of this bill's passage.

[ Parent ]
The funny thing is (0.00 / 0)
that those who support the bill are, um, in the MINORITY.

Out of touch... hahaha.  Hey, why don't you sail out to a state with a competitive Senate race this year and tell everyone there to support this wonderful health care bill!  Might want to bring a riot shield!

[ Parent ]
I, for one, had a tear in my eye.... (0.00 / 0)
...when I read his comments.  It was a reminder of why Dennis had been a personal hero of mine for so many years.  

Thank you, congressman... that was incredibly classy!  I greatly appreciate it!

It was a good reminder of how we are all in this together... a message that apparently didn't get through, reading the comments.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

we're *all* investors in Blue Shield now (4.00 / 3)
:Eagle lands on an American flag gently flapping in the wind, church bells ring:
[ Parent ]
I think you are reading some meaning into his statement (4.00 / 1)
That DK didn't say or mean.  Much like Ted Kennedy, he said the dream lives on.  DK was classy enough to not point out the weaknesses of those who capitulated because when they realize their error, down the road, he hopes to be among their leaders.  I think he believes in America and the American people.  Even in their weakest moments.  This is the end of the battle, not the war.  DK chose not to commit suicide.  We may all be in this together, but some are doing more of the rowing.  

"Oh. My. God. .... We're doomed." -- Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c...
[ Parent ]
We are all in this together... as we jump off the cliff like so many lemmings into the waiting jaws of the for-profit insurance companies? (0.00 / 0)
No thanks, I'll stay back here...

Btw, lemmings do not deliberately jump off cliffs as the urban legend suggests.  Maybe some day that urban legend will be updated to replace "lemmings" with "liberal supporters of the public option", and then it'll actually be true.

[ Parent ]
Kucinich to vote yes | 53 comments
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