Vote on the rule passes the House, 224-206; harbinger of final vote

by: Chris Bowers

Sun Mar 21, 2010 at 18:34


Update 8:38 p.m.: Nate Silver has the differences between how folks were committed, and how they voted on the rule:

Among those Democrats projected to vote NO on final passage, five voted YES on the procedural vote: Jason Altmire, Marion Berry, Larry Kissell, Collin Peterson, and Harry Teague.

Among the four Democrats that the Times listed as undecided, Jerry Costello voted YES, but Rick Boucher, Dan Lipinski and Lincoln Davis (whom other sources regard as a solid no) voted NO. Bobby Rush, who was technically undecided as of this morning but was not listed by the Times that way, voted YES.

Harry Mitchell, projected to vote yes on final package, voted NO on the rules bill.

That projects to 218-220.

Update 2: Pelosi says Senate bill vote after 10 pm. Reconciliation after 11 pm.  All times eastern.

Update: At least three Dems who have announced they will oppose the bill--Tanner, Teague, Altmire--voted for the rule.  Final vote on Senate bill will get 221 or fewer supporters.

****

The House just passed the rules of debate on the reconciliation bill, 224-206, with one member not voting.  The final vote will be very similar.  A couple of Dems might drop off in the belief that it will somehow help them win re-election.

(Update--The roll call has now been posted on line, and can be found here.)

The debate will last for two hours.  Vote on the reconciliation bill will happen no earlier than 8:30 p.m., eastern.

If there are 224 votes in favor of the bill now, then either they didn't need the Stupak bloc, or the bloc was larger than the 6 reported yesterday.

This is an open thread for the ongoing debate.  Watch it live online at C-SPAN.

Chris Bowers :: Vote on the rule passes the House, 224-206; harbinger of final vote

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The polls will be interesting (4.00 / 5)

 Once this bill passes, the media will have to start talking about the actual contents of the bill rather than echoing the Republicans' chronic lies about it, and it will be instructive to see if this is reflected in a strong poll bounce for Democrats.

 And if that does in fact happen, maybe the Democrats might finally understand that succumbing to right-wing concern trolling and avoiding "controversial" votes gains them nothing in the real world.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Have to? (4.00 / 1)
There is no reason to think the media will be forced to do this.  Republicans will still be saying the same thing, as they work in the states to file lawsuits to challenge this legislation and ensure that its implementation is frustrated. My guess is that they will be using the same old talking points for that process that they used in this process.

If Democrats were unable to mount effective sustained arguments for this legislation before it was passed, why think that they will be able to do it after it passes.  If they couldn't learn the lesson that no one likes weakness in politics before, why now?

On the other hand, if there can be real grassroots mobilization at the state level to counteract Republican efforts, that might inject more powerful progressive arguments into the debate.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Well, yes and no (4.00 / 2)

  To be honest, I fully expected the bill to go down in flames -- mainly because of the Democrats' chronic fecklessness in the face of Republican sustained attacks. A last-minute fold would have been true to form.

  But, somehow, almost incredibly, the Democrats managed to make this happen. Despite the media onslaught, despite the concern trolling, despite the bad poll numbers for the bill. As Chris has pointed out here many times, Congress very rarely passes unpopular legislation.

 So whether this is an aberration or a sea change in Democratic political culture remains to be seen. But it IS a difference. And this is THE most controversial issue of the session -- if the Dems could pull HEALTH CARE off, stuff like DADT should be a walk in the park.

 Or not. We'll find out.

   

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
I have a feeling that once this bill passes and the Republican Attack Machine is in full force (0.00 / 0)
many of the Democrats who voted Yes will be sorely regretting it.  And they won't be around for much longer to take similarly "bold" stances in the future.

[ Parent ]
Its in full bore now, and its boring. (4.00 / 1)
and its divisive, and its wrong, and its ugly, and they are divided, and winning (anything at all) is adictive, and the polls have already started to bounce.

There will be advise programs on tv telling people how to take advantage, and it has an education borrowing plan that's a damn good start to reform there.

They can only harm themselves more.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Yup (4.00 / 1)
On to reporting about how the bill may be illegal and unconstitutional...

...and if the GOP can stop their repeal, how the Dems are responsible for all the Cornhusker-type payoffs remaining law.

The media moving on to actual, good reporting? That's a knee-slapper...

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


[ Parent ]
No, but look at the stories that just came out today... (0.00 / 0)
Obama and Pelosi, the "comeback kids"... the team that stood tall int he face of certain defeat... blah blah...

The media gobbles up this kind of shit...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Take a shot (4.00 / 2)
every time you see the word "sweeping" used to describe the bill. You'll be drunk by noon. That's how unoriginal reporting has become these days.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Which is more damning? (4.00 / 3)
the lies or the truth?

[ Parent ]
Heh (4.00 / 3)

 Yes, I have seriously mixed feelings about this bill. But if the passage of this piece of legislation, against all odds, emboldens Democrats to actually stand up for themselves in the future, then that's a BIG benefit. If they can see that (a) they didn't cave to the Republicans, and (b) the world didn't end, then that's a major, major breakthrough.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Totally Disagree With That (4.00 / 2)
because it's based on the wrong understanding of the Dems. They didn't work all year to defeat real reform because they were afraid of Republicans, it was because they don't believe in real reform...not ideologically, and not from the practical standpoint of pay for pay politics.

I'm not trying to get into a contest of who can out-cynical who, it just seems to me that this is the big take-away from this year: we can finally say definitively that the vast sweep of federal-level Democrats don't stand for the party's historic values. It's not that they "cave", it's that they don't really believe in the first place...


[ Parent ]
No, that's not true.... (4.00 / 2)
About 150 Congressional Dems believe in real reform, but 150 is simply not enough.

Don't tar the whole party 'cos of many worthless Rahm blue dogs...  They are still the minority...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
They're more likely to cover (0.00 / 0)
the Democrats' lies about the bill.

[ Parent ]
Regarding The Numbers & Needing the Stupak Block (4.00 / 1)
It does make sense that some folks in close districts were worried about being targeted as the person whose vote passed the bill.  At 216 for, this could probably scare off a couple of folks who would feel a whole lot more comfortable as part of a double-digit margin.

I know it's stupid.  But stupid rules in Versailles.

And thus, the Stupak block is needed only to make it irrelevant.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I looked at the Roll Call... (0.00 / 0)
At least one rep, Mr. Tanner, who have formally opposed the bill DID vote for the rule to move the bill forward.

I'm not sure if we should read too much into this vote...

I also bet there will be a higher tally for the reconciliation bill than there will be for the Senate bill.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


TPM says GOP tactic is... (4.00 / 2)
To basically delay the vote until it's late so they can protest that the bill was passed "in the middle of the night".  Does that really resonate with anyone?

It'll resonate with the teabaggers (4.00 / 2)

 All dumb arguments do.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Well.. (4.00 / 1)
I mean, who cares about them?  They're not voting for Dems/Progressives anyway.

[ Parent ]
Right, because Medicare Part D (4.00 / 1)
was passed on a bright beautiful sunny morning...

Well, it was passed in the morning, but it was not bright, beautiful, or sunny.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, well you know it's already the middle of the night... (4.00 / 2)
in France!

[ Parent ]
My guess is 218-213 (4.00 / 1)
Or 219-212 if Cao changes his vote.

Given room to change, never underestimate the cowardice of the conservadems to switch at the last minute.

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans


Cao will be a no (4.00 / 1)
JeffreyYoung_HC:

GOP Rep. Joseph Cao (LA), who voted for #hcr in Nov., tells our @mollyhooper that he will definitely no tonight.


Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans

[ Parent ]
Well, his career is done... (4.00 / 1)
Sorry dude... you tried last time... that was nice, I guess...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Socialists Win Big In France (0.00 / 0)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...

There is also a little commentary on the European Tribune. It look's like the tenacity of Martine Aubry, who I think is the daughter of DSK, is starting to pay dividends.

BTW: anyone else having trouble with this page loading? Is it because of the twitter feed?


Another link, and a correction (0.00 / 0)
she's the daughter of Jacques Delors, which is even better (he was a strong progressive force guiding the EU in the late '90s).

Here's a good write-up: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm...


[ Parent ]
Harry Mithcel supposed to be a yes vote.... (0.00 / 0)
...for the bill, yet voted against the rule... what's up with that?  According to DDay's count, that puts us only at 216, with no buffer....

Worrisome?  It is to me...  Any insight?

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


meh (4.00 / 1)
Loretta Sanchez voted against the rule in November then for the bill.


[ Parent ]
McMahon (4.00 / 1)
 McMahon of New York voted Yes on the rule   but was supposed to be a NO on the bill - another question of intent  

call the guiness book of world records (0.00 / 0)
I think John Boehner's speech must have broken the record for number of eyeballs rolled at once.  

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


The only bright point I can muster about passing this bill (4.00 / 1)
is that when the Dems take a drubbing in the fall, it will be blamed on the party leadership. If the bill were to be defeated, and the Dems take a drubbing in the fall for being incompetent, the Dem establishment would scapegoat Progressives. At least with passage, Progressives remain in a position to fight for real reform in the future instead of being sacrificed on the altar of beltway bullshit.

Good point (0.00 / 0)
The other silver lining is that if conservatives successfully challenge the individual mandate in court or in state legislatures or at the ballot box (and I'm generally supportive of those efforts) it'll tear down this bill's framework and require lawmakers to either accept a return to the current status quo or start thinking beyond "market-based" solutions.

[ Parent ]
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