And it's on to the Senate

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 12:55


As Joe Biden so artfully put it:


And, at the same time, it is still only one step along the way.  The Senate will take up the reconciliation bill at 2:15 p.m.  Roll call votes are expected throughout the day, so it is time to watch C-SPAN-2.

And, even beyond the reconciliation bill, this is not the first health care bill President Obama has signed into law.  Back in February of 2009, he signed a bill expanding CHIP, for example, which will result in 4 million additional young Americans receiving public health insurance. There are going to be a lot more steps like that in the future, too.

As dramatic as today's signing was, it is still just one step.  Now, its onto the Senate.

Chris Bowers :: And it's on to the Senate

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And it's on to the Senate | 29 comments
This is just one step. (4.00 / 2)
It is a step, it coukld have been better, a lot better, and conservadems are completely, completely responsible for preventing the things that could have been done, completely responsible for what should NOT have been added. And that therefor is wher we need to press, that is where we need to act.

This is a huge fucking deal, in itself, and also because it points so clearly to what needs doing next.

Removing conservadems from office.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

re: conservadems (4.00 / 2)
conservadems are completely, completely responsible

is obama a conservadem?

[ Parent ]
No. (4.00 / 1)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
[ Parent ]
re: no (4.00 / 4)
then saying:

conservadems are completely, completely responsible

...is not accurate. if obama had fought for a po, we'd have one now

[ Parent ]
No we wouldnt (4.00 / 1)
But thats your belief, and its pretty popular here. Pressure is primarying congress, thats where power is, thats where our focus is and thats what we need to do.

It is anti progressive, against our common goals, to ignore our need to primary, successfully, several to many, members of the House, and the Senate.

It is either a criticism or mere knowledge, to understand that we have to, as FDR so famously put it, "force him to do it" when ever we want soemthing done.

That means we have to organize better, and more.

I am unimpressed with the efforts of progressives to push legislation by attacking Obama's efforts.

It didnt work, threatening Stupak did work, threatening Spector does, and removing Lincoln is a moral imperative.

I am bored with the discussion of Obama's intent, we have to force him, we always have.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
So, the progressives are at least partially responsible (4.00 / 2)
That means we have to organize better, and more.

had "we" fulfilled your vision, perhaps the conservodems could have been more soundly defeated.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

[ Parent ]
Yes, America is not as good as it could be, (4.00 / 1)
has not been as good as it could be, thousands have died, millions, and suffering continues were it can be alleviated because all of us are distracted, self involved and despondent. All of us.

Even me, and even you.

And yes from the civil war to this very day, none of us and none of our parents have done enough.

But we can do better, with our eyes on the prize.

Yes we can.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
At least you admit it (4.00 / 1)
I was worried when you tried to put the blame solely on the conservodems.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
What we need to, is two comment's up. (4.00 / 1)
I am sure you read that on your way here.

Work hard is good, working smart good too.

We need both.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
Self reflection and admiting mistakes (4.00 / 1)
is essential to making progress.

Without self-appraisal work, no matter how hard or smart, will be in vain.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

[ Parent ]
As you can see . . . (4.00 / 1)
I liked this conversation.
[ Parent ]
I am grateful for your mark-up and comment. (0.00 / 0)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
[ Parent ]
re: po (0.00 / 0)
But thats your belief,

if he did want it he would've supported a vote on a po/buy-in amendment. a failed amendment doesn't doom the legislation.

but obama knew if a vote was held, a po would probably pass. and that would displease the corporations.

to ignore our need to primary

did I said the opposite?

[ Parent ]
Yes I saw he didn't vote for any of that. (0.00 / 0)
But then I didnt expect him to.

As I said I am bored with the useless effort to affect legislation by attacking Obama's efforts. It is a waste of time. We have to force him, still, just like before.

The way to force him is to send Bills to his desk that hard to sign. Lets get on it.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
I don't know what you expected it (4.00 / 1)
but I expected him to fight for me as I fought for him

tell me, is that unreasonable? I fought for him. why am I not supposed to expect him to fight for me?

[ Parent ]
And your father gave you insecurities, (4.00 / 1)
but I am not sure that the path to health is through your father.

The path to getting done what we need done, what keeps us from wasting our time, is making the Senate a democratic body without bought-off members and pretend democrats, the path to reform, as in it can be done, and should be done, and was always what we needed to do, is make our houses, ours again.

Of this I am insistent.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
wtf? (0.00 / 0)
And your father gave you insecurities, ... but I am not sure that the path to health is through your father.

how did my father entered the conversation? what are you talking about?

[ Parent ]
It is a metaphor (0.00 / 0)
It is an example, without basis in evidence, of the kind of thing that keeps us working away at "the problem" without any path to resolution, without any hope of response, where the fact might be true, but the data doesnt help.


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
[ Parent ]
I think it's unreasonable (0.00 / 0)
because I think it assumes that the office of the Presidency exists to serve or represent our needs.  It doesn't.  The President is the head of Establishment DC, and Establishment DC isn't particularly interested in the needs or priorities of ordinary people.

None of that has anything to do with Obama as a person.  It has to do with the office.  The White House is on the other side of the barricades from us.

[ Parent ]
Could you elaborate? (4.00 / 1)
None of that has anything to do with Obama as a person.  It has to do with the office.

Why is this the case? What is constraining Obama (or any President) from behaving as he wishes, supporting what he chooses?  I think there are institutional issues, but don't believe that no President has ever placed a high priority on the needs of ordinary people (I would list Lincoln, FDR, and LBJ at least as counterexamples), and completely reject that their priorities have nothing to do with them as people.

[ Parent ]
The Federal Gov't has evolved a lot over the years (0.00 / 0)
I think that since WWII the main job of institutional DC has been to maintain and expand American military and economic hegemony overseas, and to manage and maintain the national security state.  There's a good deal of room to operate within those constraints -- e.g., an elected's position on abortion -- but those basic priorities are non-negotiable, and happen unfortunately to be inimical to the interests of ordinary people.

As far as FDR and LBJ were concerned, they were managing grassroots uprisings.  FDR got the New Deal in place to prevent a President Huey Long, at least, or an all-out workers' revolt against Capital, at worst.  The civil rights movement made Jim Crow fundamentally unworkable -- African-Americans in the South simply weren't going to live that way any more, and LBJ's civil rights laws were a less frightening prospect to most of the country than waiting and seeing what would happen next.

Not that FDR and LBJ hated the FLSA or the Great Society, not at all.  But they were in the end defending social stability from threats on the Left.  We haven't posed that kind of threat to institutional power in this country, so they're not moving to placate us.

[ Parent ]
Yes I saw he didn't vote for any of that. (0.00 / 0)
But then I didnt expect him to.

As I said I am bored with the useless effort to affect legislation by attacking Obama's efforts. It is a waste of time. We have to force him, still, just like before.

The way to force him is to send Bills to his desk that hard to sign. Lets get on it.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
Unclear, and why does it matter? (4.00 / 1)
but obama knew if a vote was held, a po would probably pass. and that would displease the corporations.

Where would the votes have come from?  The final bill passed with three votes to spare.  A bunch of the ayes were from conservadems who would have voted no on a public option.  Of the noes, possibly Lynch votes yes on PO, don't see any of the others.  Maybe some of the Repubs would have voted yes as a poison pill.

And if it had passed, it might well have killed the whole thing, as it could have collapsed the whole delicately balanced House/Senate deal, which requires trust on the House's part anyway.

But ultimately, who knows, and who knows what Obama really wants?  I agree with HousesofProgress that he is at least somewhat malleable in a left direction, as was FDR, and we need to "make him do it."  I don't see the state of his heart as all that important except to those who feel a need to either love him or hate him.

[ Parent ]
re: votes (0.00 / 0)
Where would the votes have come from?

that's why I said 'amendment.' I think the votes would be there (the house passed a po in november) but I could very well be wrong. but an amendment that doesn't pass won't sink the whole bill.

And if it had passed, it might well have killed the whole thing

you mean there could be someone who would vote yes on the po and no on hcr?

and hcr has already passed now. a po/buy-in amendment in reconciliation won't derail anything now.

[ Parent ]
that dude (0.00 / 0)
is a gaffe machine and there's no "off" switch.
I don't think that counts as a gaffe. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
I am trying to find the video and would love a link (0.00 / 0)
before they all disappear from the internets

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
[ Parent ]
found it (4.00 / 1)
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpoin...



--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

[ Parent ]
More than a step, but many steps to follow (4.00 / 1)
Huge, comprehensive bills like this are very rare, making this much more than a step.  This is like buying the cart and horse before beginning the journey, or something.

But smaller steps are much more common.  As pointed out, Obama has already signed one smaller health care bill.  Many more should follow over the years.  Now there is a framework in place to improve our health care system instead of just relying on the ad hoc system that was in place before.

Even a big step like Medicare Buy-in doesn't really work without this kind of change already in place.  But now that we have this, those kinds of steps are easier to sell and implement.

And it's on to the Senate | 29 comments
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