Sedition

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Apr 25, 2010 at 10:30


The last two weeks have been quite a dynamic period of time.  The GOP determination to make financial reform an endless fight ala health care reform seems to have suddenly crumpled, a sudden rise in media scrutiny, along with chilling reminders of the 15th Anniversary of the Oklahoma Bombing seems to have suddenly taken the wind out of the Tea Party Movement--though for how long no one can say, and the passage of a deeply racist anti-immigrant law in Arizona has produced a wave of violent threats against Representative Grijalva.  This only describes part of the complex dynamics of political shifts over the past two weeks, but it's still far too much for most of us to get a handle on, partly because the dominant terms of political discourse--even in progressive online circles--is simply too impoverished to adequately describe what is happening.  I'd like to focus attention on a few highlightable incidents in order to draw out what is difficult for us to deal with conceptually, and then bring in a recent blog post by Sara Robinson at the Campaign for America's Future, "None Dare Call It Sedition", that I think is enormously clarifying.

Actually, I'd like to focus primarily on Bill Clinton's remarks about the Oklahoma City Bombing on April 16, and the reactions it drew from Rush Limbaugh, Michele Bachmann, and others.  And I'd like to flank that with Glenn Beck's claim about supposed similarities between "our side" and Martin Luther King, and Arizona Governor Jan Brewer's signing of Arizona's racist anti-immigrant law, justifying it with the claim that it didn't involve racial profiling because that would be illegal.  

Sara's diary began thus:

Sedition: Crime of creating a revolt, disturbance, or violence against lawful civil authority with the intent to cause its overthrow or destruction

Well, finally. It's high time somebody had the guts to say the S-word -- sedition -- right out loud.

When the indictments against the Hutaree were unsealed last week, the S-word was right there, front and center, in Count One. The Justice Department accused them of "seditious conspiracy," charging that the defendants "did knowingly conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and other persons known and unknown...to levy war against the United States, and to prevent, hinder, and delay by force the execution of any United States law."
This is very serious stuff. But the Hutaree are getting nailed for sedition only because they crossed the line with inches to spare. They're by no means the only ones. Advocating, encouraging, and sanctioning sedition is the new norm on the conservative side.

My simple explanation of what's been going on here is that Clinton set out to distinguish between dissent and sedition, and Limbaugh lashed back, because he's all about sedition.  As Sara said, sedition is the new norm on the conservative side.  

Paul Rosenberg :: Sedition
Similarly, Beck's claim that his followers, those on "our side" are just like Martin Luther King, was breathtakingly absurd on many levels, perhaps its deepest absurdity is that King was profoundly patriotic--in the spirit of Langston Hughes's declaration that "America was never America to me" and yet "America shall be"--while Beck and his minions are profoundly seditious in their intent, just like the segregationist power structure King battled against.

Also similarly with Brewer, King's legacy has become too deeply embedded in America today for conservatives to deny it ("racial profiling is against the law")--and so they must resort to trying to capture that legacy for themselves, subvert that legacy against itself, a move that is one with their broader project of subverting America--by turning it into a police state when they are in charge, and by waging seditious warfare against it when they are not.

This is what I think has been going on--not just over the past two weeks, but for decades, really.  But it is what the last two weeks have put on particularly clear display, if we avail ourselves of the perspective that Sara's diary provides.

First, Sara cites another example:

We saw it again last Thursday, when the Guardians of the Free Republics -- a Sovereign Citizen group that believes that the oath of office taken by state governors is invalid under their twisted Bizarroland interpretation of the Constitution -- sent letters to most or all sitting state governors telling them to either a) take what they consider to be a legitimate oath of office; b) stand down; or c) or be removed "non-violently" within three days. The FBI, rightly, regards this as a potentially seditious threat against the governors.

Then she explains the significance:

These two events are a wake-up call for progressives. They're telling us that it's time to openly confront the fact that conservatives have spent the past 40 years systematically delegitimizing the very idea of constitutional democracy in America. When they're in power, they mismanage it and defund it. When they're out of power, they refuse to participate in running the country at all -- indeed, they throw all their energy into thwarting the democratic process any way they can. When they need to win an election, they use violent, polarizing, eliminationist language against their opponents to motivate their base. This is sedition in slow motion, a gradual corrosive undermining of the government's authority and capacity to run the country. And it's been at the core of their politics going all the way back to Goldwater.

This long assault has gone into overdrive since Obama's inauguration, as the rhetoric has ratcheted up from overheated to perfervid. We've reached the point where you can't go a week without hearing some prominent right wing leader calling for outright sedition -- an immediate and defiant populist uprising against some legitimate form of government authority....

Progressives need to realize that the right began defiantly dancing back and forth over the legal line, daring us to do something about it, quite some time ago. And it's high time we called it out -- and, where appropriate, start prosecuting it -- for exactly what it is.

She goes on to define exactly what sedition is -- and is not, how that difference is spotted:

Here's the defining line we need to hold on to. People who promote subversive ideas, no matter how dangerous those ideas might seem, are completely protected under the First Amendment. Even calling for the overthrow of the government is protected (though not benign, as we'll see later, because it creates justification, permission, and incitement to seditious acts). That's why the conservatives have been safe -- so far.

It's only when those people start actively planning and implementing a government rebellion that it turns into criminal sedition. In this case: the weird rantings on the Hutaree website -- not seditious. The group's allegedly operational plans to assassinate a police officer, ambush the resulting funeral, and thus bring on a national militia uprising -- absolutely seditious, if the charges stick.

This bright-line distinction, which has been part of American sedition law for the past 50 years, parallels closely the line drawn by terrorism analysts in sussing out which groups are benign and which ones are headed for trouble. As I've noted before, one of the cardinal signs these experts watch and listen for is a fundamental shift in rhetoric. In the early stages of dissent, groups establish the lines of conflict by obsessively focusing on their enemies and loudly denouncing their essential evilness. You hear this kind of talk in politics all the time these days. It's always ugly, but not inherently dangerous.

But in the latter stage, the talk turns overtly eliminationist, and the group starts expressing its clear desire and intention to eradicate specific enemies. When they shift to that second stage, it's a sign that they've made the mental commitment to violent action -- and are more likely to be acquiring arms, selecting targets, and getting ready to act in the near future. When a group starts actively planning an attack on government offices or officials, it's officially crossed the line into sedition.


Understanding the technical line-crossing definition is vitally important--and I don't use the word "technical" to denigrate its importance.  Our adherence to technical distinctions is one of our most precious means of preserving our liberty.  But once one is clear about the meaning of sedition, one can also be clear about the meaning of advocating sedition.  And even though advocating sedition is perfectly legal, as Sarah says, it is nonetheless quite different from other types of political speech, and we are well advised to understand it for what it is, to attack it for what it is, to educate others about what it is, and to make advocates of sedition pay a political price for their hatred of America, and their advocacy of making war against her.

Openly advocating acts of sedition has become the conservatives' main political stock in trade over the past year. (The SPLC offers a strong summary here.) You hear it everywhere from Rush to Glenn to Michelle Malkin to Michelle Bachman. Everybody on the right is now roundly convinced that the fairly-elected President of the United States isn't even a citizen. He's a Muslim, and thus in treasonous league with terrorists. The main goal of his administration is to turn the country over to the One World Government. He's a socialist. He's a fascist. All of these are direct attacks on Obama's fundamental legitimacy and authority to lead the country -- and thus a deliberate incitement to revolt against his administration.

She then goes on to describe a range of different ways in which the right is arming itself, training and organizing for actual acts of sedition.  For example:
For the past five years, armed Minutemen have been usurping the job of the U.S. Border Patrol. And within the past year, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the number of right-wing militias has more than doubled to over 500, many of which present themselves as alternative law-enforcement posses that are adjunct to the ones staffed by the county sheriffs.

It's not just militias, though their dramatic resurgence is a good indicator for how widespread a seditious mentality has become.  Others are much more explicitly planning for seditious action:
And some of these groups have already effectively crossed the line, in spirit if not in prosecutable fact. When the Christian dominionists train up "Joel's Army" by sending their sons to the US armed services so they can get the combat experience they'll need to set up a worldwide theocracy, that's evidence of an active plan to effect an armed government takeover. When senior US military officers put their commitment to Jesus ahead of their commitment to uphold the Constitution and regard the military as God's force in the world, we should be very afraid.

This is the on-the-ground but under-the-radar background reality we need to have in mind when viewing the behavior of Republican politicians, operatives and enablers:

It's time to confront the sobering fact that the entire right wing -- including the GOP establishment, which encourages, endorses, and echoes these sentiments almost every time its officials appear in public -- is now issuing nearly constant invitations to criminal sedition. They're creating a climate and using language that lowers their base's inhibitions around violence -- and irresponsibly eggs on the handful of sociopaths in their midst who are already primed to kill. They've given their newly-expanded corps of flying monkeys permission to brandish their guns in public, empowered their militias, promised them glory, and are now telling them explicitly which targets to hit.

We'd be idiots not to regard this as an overt threat. Especially when they keep telling us, very explicitly, that they mean it to be. When somebody says they're going to shoot you, believe them.


Believe it or not, there's plenty more from this excellent essay that I haven't quoted.  But I've quoted enough to provide the necessary context for understanding the three incidents from the part two weeks that I want to now focus on.

Clinton & Limbaugh

First--and most importantly--is Clinton's speech reflecting on the  Oklahoma City Bombing and Limbaugh's response, which Media Matters has devoted a very long page to here.  Clinton's speech was a very thoughtful, historically informed speech, in which he drew a clear distinction between political disagreement and dissent on the one hand and political violence and incitement thereto on the other.  Here' the excerpts that Media Matters highlighted:

The second lesson we have to learn is that we can't let the debate veer so far into hatred that we lose focus of our common humanity. It's really important. We can't ever fudge the fact that there is a basic line dividing criticism from violence or its advocacy. And the closer you get to the line, and the more responsibility you have, the more you have to think about the echo chamber in which your words resonate.

Look, criticism is part of the lifeblood of democracy. Nobody's right all the time. But Oklahoma City proved once again that, beyond the law, there is no freedom. And there is a difference between criticizing a policy or a politician and demonizing the government that guarantees our freedom and the public servants who implement them. And the more prominence you have in politics or media or some other pillar of life, the more you have to keep that in mind.

And:

But what we learned from Oklahoma City is not that we should gag each other or that we should reduce our passion for the positions we hold, but that the words we use really do matter because there are -- there's this vast echo chamber. And they go across space and they fall on the serious and the delirious, alike; they fall on the connected and the unhinged, alike. And I am not trying to muzzle anybody.

But one of the things that the conservatives have always brought to the table in America is a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility. And the more power you have, and the more influence you have, the more responsibility you have. Look, I'm glad they're fighting over health care and everything else; let them have at it.

But I think that all you have to do is read the paper every day to see how many people there are who are deeply, deeply troubled. We know, now, that there are people involved in groups -- these "hatriot" groups, the Oath Keepers, the Three Percenters, the others -- 99 percent of them will never do anything they shouldn't do. But there are people who advocate violence and anticipate violence.

And,finally:

When George Washington served his two terms and went home to Mount Vernon to retire and John Adams became president, he was called out of retirement one time. You know what it was? He was called out of retirement to command the Armed Forces sent to Pennsylvania to put down the Whiskey Rebellion, because good Americans who had fought for this country crossed the line from advocating a different policy and opposing the current one to taking the law into their own hands in a violent manner.

Once in a while, over the last 200 years, we've crossed the line again. But by and large, that bright line has held, and that's why this is the longest-lasting democracy in human history. That's why there is so much free speech. That's why people can organize their groups. It may seem like fringe groups that advocate whatever the livin' Sam Hill they want to advocate. That's why. But we have to keep the bright line alive. So that's the second lesson.

Clearly, the entire theme of this section is both the need not to cross the line into violence and incitement to violence and the importance of vigorous, passionate disagreements on the proper side of that line.  He does not use the term "sedition", but his thinking is very much in line with the distinction, and with the significance of it that Sara has drawn--although with his patented desire to please, Clinton doesn't dwell on the dark side too long, and actually significantly understates how much and how frequently conservatives have flirted with crossing the line.

Indeed, in a passage Media Matters did not quote here, Clinton said:

Now, I have to tell you that I had a great time fighting with Newt Gingrich and Tom Delay and Dick Armey. I loved seeing that picture of him in the Post today - the outline - Armey with his cowboy hat on. I remember when he called Hillary a socialist. (Laughter.) I remember when Newt Gingrich, shortly after becoming speaker-elect, said that Hillary and I were the enemies of normal Americans. It didn't bother me a bit. I was glad to get in and mix it up.

How did Limbaugh respond to all this?  Simple: by lying, just as he always does.  Despite Clinton's repeated statements that dissent was good, that he even enjoyed political fights in which the other side used slanderous attacks, and even that some who had resorted to violence in the past had been "good Americans", Limbaugh falsely attacked Clinton for trying to silence him and others like him:

You have President Clinton here simply lying about a terrible tragedy to try to chill free speech and libeling me and the tea party at the same time. It does not get more despicable than this."

Of course, the passages quoted from Clinton's speech clearly show he was not trying to chill free speech.  But what about his other claims here?  And how are they related? The answer is quite straightforward, and clearly evident from the other excerpts Media Matters has on the same page.  Limbaugh asks what words, exactly influenced McVeigh towards violence, and then uncritically accepts McVeigh's own justification of his mass murder as uncontestable fact (thereby endorsing McVeigh's sedition worldview and implicitly adopting it as his own):

Limbaugh asks Clinton, "What words caused Timothy McVeigh to act," says McVeigh was "outraged over the government invasion" in Waco. Responding to Clinton's statement that "the words we use do really matter," Limbaugh asked of Clinton: "What words caused Timothy McVeigh to act? Name one. I want to know what words and who spoke them. What are the words that Timothy McVeigh heard? What are the words he admitted that he heard that prompted him to act?" Limbaugh went on to say: "All I've ever heard is that Timothy McVeigh was outraged over the government invasion led by Janet Reno of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. And the Murrah building was blown up on that exact date two years later. ... Somebody show me the words, Mr. President, that McVeigh heard and caused him to act."

Media Matters further quotes:

Limbaugh: "McVeigh was not inspired by anybody's words, he was inspired by Mr. Clinton's deeds." Limbaugh said that "McVeigh was not inspired by anybody's words, he was inspired by Mr. Clinton's deeds. And this is what they're trying to wash over; this is what they're trying to erase from the historical record."

Limbaugh: Clinton has "ties to the domestic terrorism of Oklahoma City." Limbaugh said that Clinton, the Obama  administration, and the press can "try to make Oklahoma City the result of a modern tea party movement," but "President Clinton's ties to the domestic terrorism of Oklahoma City are tangible; talk radio's ties are nonexistent. We had nothing to do with it."

Of course, as MSNBC's broadcast of "The McVeigh Tapes" reminds all of us, McVeigh spent a long period of time absorbing a paranoid, conspiratorial,  rightwing militia worldview.  He spent months traveling the gunshow circuit, soaking up the words of countless rightwing conspiracies and ideologues. The role of rightwing talk radio--a much less developed presence at the time, was not a part of MSNBC's account, nor was it specified by Clinton, either.  It was Limbaugh's guilty conscience alone (or, more likely,  in tandem with his hyper-inflated ego) that inserted himself into that discussion.

But how does one accurately, historically make sense of the violence of Oklahoma City and the political culture that it came out of?  And how does one distinguish that which is toxic from that which simply--even positively--invigorates our democracy?  "The McVeigh Tapes", for all it's focus on specific details does not even begin to try to answer that.  This is why Robinson's diary, "None Dare Call It Sedition" is so important for understanding where McVeigh came from, where many more potential McVeighs today are coming from, and what people like Limbaugh are up to when they continue to incite sedition.   This is why everyone here should not just take my word for it, go read the entire essay for yourselves.

Beck & Brewer

But first, consider the other two examples I cited.  Here's Beck:

As I said before, Beck's claim that his followers, those on "our side" are just like Martin Luther King, is breathtakingly absurd on many levels.  Above I stressed the contrast between King's deeply critical, but profoundly patriotic view of America (echoing Langston Hughes's declaration that "America was never America to me" and yet "America shall be") and Beck's  seditious hatred of America. But equally absurd is the contrast between King's profound dedication to nonviolence and the gun-nut fanaticism of Beck's side, which is inextricable interwoven into every aspect of their seditious worldview.  Tacitly, if not explicitly, Beck endorses and stands for everything that Robinson wrote about in her essay.  And none of that has anything at all to do with Martin Luther King, except to oppose everything he stood for 100%.

Finally, we turn to Arizona Governor Jan Brewer's signing and incoherent defense of the racist anti-immigration law.  This belongs in the matrix of sedition-related actions for a number of reasons, of which I'll cite just three:  First, because of the long-standing role that militias and militia-like groups have played in stoking anti-immigrant hysteria in Arizona for decades now.  The desire to displace standard law enforcement, and to usurp the government's monopoly on the use of force has been central to this movement from the very beginning, and those desires are inherently seditious. Second, the law passed is clearly an affront to federal power, an assertion of state power in a realm that's clearly a federal jurisdiction, and thus a rallying point in the spreading calls for asserting states rights over the federal government, even to the point of calling for secession. Third, the lack of any objective basis for stopping people and asking to see their papers is a de facto license for every law enforcement officer to act as a law unto themselves--the very antithesis of what our government under law, enshrined in the Bill of Rights, is all about.

Conclusion

This is just a snapshot of three incidents from a two-week time period.  But as Sara states, this is really about a core characteristic of the conservative movement dating back at least as far as Goldwater.  One thing we need to be very clear about: The desire to overthrow the established order of the American government may be many things.  But one thing it most definitely is not is "conservative" in the reassuring sense of striving to maintain continuity, respect tradition and legitimate authority,  and avoid violent upheavals.

Conservatives aren't just at war with America.  They are at war with everything they say about themselves.


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Sedition | 21 comments
At the end of the election period which elected President Barack Hussein Obama (4.00 / 4)
the right wing commentators started calling down democracy started seeding the waters for sedition, started their attack on the basis of America, Democracy itself.

There were comments noting the anti democratic nature of these commentators here on openleft, and by P.R. as I remember, about their efforts to encourage tricks to stop voters, about tricks to prevent voting etc. -were not just ok, but necessary, because the "wrong people" were voting. Not people who weren't citizens, they didnt mention that, just people who would vote "wrong," because democracy is flawed, they cried, it allows voting by citizens.

The drive is assisted by the purposeful efforts to redefine America not as a democratic nation but as a "Christian nation" and the parallel track drive to redefine America, not as a democracy but as a "republic."

They know what they are doing. They know their time is passing, and democracy is barely in the tool kit, let alone in the design, of the new society they want to replace America.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


They Got Started Early, All Right (4.00 / 3)
In fact, the attacks on Obama during the campaign as a terrorist sympathizer were laying the groundwork for a continuous campaign against him, with an alleged shadowy cabal surrounding him.  It was pretty shadowy, all right, since it was composed entirely of specters in their own heads.  Hence we had conservative gospel of ACORN magically "stealing" the election without them ever pointing to a single fraudulent vote--quite a trick!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yes they attacked the person Obama, but the substance of some of their attacks (4.00 / 3)
were based not on Obama, but on democracy itself. This is a qualitative difference from "he's a crook" "hes a bad person" "he's a muslin" "he's a terererist" and the like, to "democracy doesn't work" -"we have to prevent voting" - "America was founded to create a Christian nation, not a democracy"

If they can't control the (remaining)* vast power of America through elections....

* What hasn't been transferred from the democracy to them already: schools, mercenaries, elections . . . .

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
I Don't Think It Was Either/Or (4.00 / 2)
They threw everything they had at him.  And they used attacks on him to attack democracy, plus attacks on democracy to attack him.

Talk about polymorphous perversity!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
It's the scary, dehumanized "other" (4.00 / 3)
that is the trope for all these various attacks, and the flip side of the virtuous, unique non-other (I'm sure there is a better term for non-other.)  They move so easily between these narratives because the basic structure is the same.  

Which is why it must be opposed with the basic progressive idea that we are 'all in this together' or my personal take on that, 'we are all full and equal persons.' It won't do for example, to call for punishing migrants while defending against the AZ law (I'm looking at you Gov Richardson), or to concede the necessity to protect against non-existing voter fraud to respond to talk of ACORN, stolen elections, etc.  

It also won't do to fight on the basis of un-contextualized facts. This narrative must be undermined by another value-laden narrative.  That doesn't mean facts are irrelevant (your diary on the AZ law is a good example of how these can work together.)

From what I can tell, the grassroots, which seems (I hope) to be stirring at the moment, gets this.  And if people start to see their similar struggles, the connections between these different narratives and the different ways government treats people in a dehumanized fashion, then we'll really see some change we can believe in.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 4)
There's a deeper place I'd like to take your last comment to, and that's this: We all dehumanize the other despite our best intentions not to.  That's why it's always necessary to keep listening to one another.  The process of combating dehuminzation of each other in our own minds is a never process of listening, and engaging with one another.

It is out of the process of continual conversation and engagement with each other that foundations of all other freedom struggles are continually re-formed.

This ties into the theme of bottom-up pragmatism and social learning from my two-part diary (part 2 up next), "A REALLY big picture look at at what works--pragmatism vs. ideology in economic development".

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I would add the aggressively manufactured census paranoia here (4.00 / 6)
to the discussion. It's just phenomenal that the right would argue against representation of their very own selves just for the goal of eliminating reasonable access to social services for the homeless and the undocumented. There's an apparent desire to define one's self against an other at any cost. I tend to believe that the lack of sufficient safety net is a self-perpetuating cycle, that the fear engendered by social and economic instability feeds into the act of othering those that fall victim or just plain are more vulnerable to the lack of a safety net.

And clearly there's a strongly seditious element to the attempt to destabilize the census and hence the effective workings of democratic government. Erick Erickson's call for taking arms against census workers baldly lays this out, but even if one doesn't carry it to such an extreme, there's clearly an attempt to throw a wrench into American democracy here. That it's inherently self-destructive just shows how fervid that wish is.


[ Parent ]
Definitely (4.00 / 3)
I tend to believe that the lack of sufficient safety net is a self-perpetuating cycle, that the fear engendered by social and economic instability feeds into the act of othering those that fall victim or just plain are more vulnerable to the lack of a safety net.

Fear and hierarchy perpetuate this mindset.  Addressing these directly (i.e. improving the social safety net through universal programs) is one of the best ways to do that. Of course, fear of the "other" was a powerful tool to prevent the creation of the social safety net, and continues to be a powerful tool in the hands of those who work to dismantle it.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
The consequences of political petulance (4.00 / 6)
This brings back vivid memories of fights with some of my fellow New Leftists years ago. These were the more excitable ones, the ones who'd read about revolution, and thought that it was their job to hasten it along by any means necessary, including violence. These, by and large, were folks who's come to the party late, and for largely emotional reasons unconnected with actual politics. You know, the ones who found Bakunin refreshing, but had never bothered to look at John Stuart Mill. They argued that the Black Panthers were the model of how to get things done, but they were talking about the Panthers' attitude of defiance, and the fact that they'd actually carried guns into the state capitol. They were profoundly uninterested in the Panthers' Ten Point Program, or their Free Breakfast Program for Children.

We don't want to sit around and talk all the time like you intellectual-types, we want to DO something. Yeah, preferably something that went BANG, or scared the police. Cooking breakfast every morning for a roomful of children, and doing even when the cameres weren't rolling, had absolutely no appeal.

Well, my friends and I lost that battle, thanks to idiots like Bill Ayers, Mark Rudd, and Bernardine Dohrn, and the police provocateurs and yellow journalist who profited from their idiocy. Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that the Republicans lost the battle with their own idiots. There's something about politics as phallic ritual that makes it appear exactly at the moment when it's least helpful. Fear may lead to rage, but both can auto-induced by the bored and indolent for their own titttilation. I suspect that it was always thus.

Paul, your earlier diary, which disentangles -- in a most magisterial way, I have to say -- the twisted skeins of meaning surrounding ideas of pragmatism and ideology, should be read by every would-be American politician. So should this diary, particularly by those who believe that they can -- and should -- let slip the dogs of war, and yet somehow think that when the beasts' work is done, they will meekly allow their original owners to put the leash back on them.


With All Due Respect, William (4.00 / 6)
I agree with almost everything you say here, but I don't think that our crazies did nearly as well as theirs

It's important to remember them, and the lessons bitterly learned, and for that reason, I'm grateful for this comment. But they never really gained a mass following.  They grabbed the momentum precisely because we were stymied in trying to gain a broader mass following, they came to the fore as SDS had passed its peak, and the country as a whole had turned away from the war, but not away from its underlying jingoism.

Our side has always had the harder fight, for any number of reasons, and therefore a handful of crazies can do more damage to our side.  But the fundamental reason we have the harder fight is that we are trying to build something new, something never seen before.  And the other side is trying to tear down, destroy what has been built so far, and return us to an earlier darkness.

In that sense, our crazies are actually on their side.

Their crazies are the essence of their side.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Word! (4.00 / 5)
Our side has always had the harder fight, for any number of reasons, and therefore a handful of crazies can do more damage to our side.  But the fundamental reason we have the harder fight is that we are trying to build something new, something never seen before.  And the other side is trying to tear down, destroy what has been built so far, and return us to an earlier darkness.

Yes, absolutely. We are weavers. The shuttle is our emblem, not the sword. Our heads are always down, but our hands are always busy. If human history is any guide, we'll be able to hold our own -- if we persist -- even with horrors like nuclear weapons and Fox News arrayed against us.


[ Parent ]
Dang, William! (4.00 / 1)
You remind me that I actually was a weaver for a while. Not exclusively.  But I had a small hand loom right around the timeframe of the Weatherman/SDS split.  A number of folks I knew became artisans in a sort of William Morris way.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Republicans and the War on Terror (0.00 / 0)
Porous borders are not good for any nation. People are standing up and doing something about it. The War on Terror has morphed into the War on Common Sense. Most people would like to forget what was happening before 9-11. How could anyone forget watching 2 jet airliners crash into the World Trade Center Towers and then watch the Towers collapse into mountains of toxic rubble? Where was the US Air Force? Where are the towers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Where are $2.3 trillion dollars? This missing money and the coincidence with
9-11 are proof the government can't be trusted with national security.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Al-Qaeda is not a threat to us. There is an incubating underground network that poses a much graver danger. The Republicans created it, released it and now it is out of control.

http://www.youtube.com/results...

Domestic terrorism coming from a seditionist movement is not the problem.


Your Internal Contradictions (4.00 / 1)
This:

Al-Qaeda is not a threat to us. There is an incubating underground network that poses a much graver danger. The Republicans created it, released it and now it is out of control.

Directly contradicts this:

Domestic terrorism coming from a seditionist movement is not the problem.

Not your only contradiction. Just the one most relevant to this diary.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Seditionist Movement (0.00 / 0)
Believing the vigilante border patrols in the southwestern US and the Oklahoma City bombing are linked to 9-11 attack takes an enormous imagination. The complete "system failures" that allowed the 9-11 attacks implicate the highest levels of US government according to documentation like 9-11 Commission Report, Loose Change.  There are contradictions between the Loose Change documentaries and the 9-11 Commission Report.

http://911review.com/means/nos...

There are many asking for a new investigation. How can there be a seditionist conspiracy in controll of all three branches of government, if the definition of sedition is overthrowing the government?

Experts say 9/11 attacks can happen again.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/loca...

I don't picture volunteer border patrol militia are in the same league as Federal Air Marshals.  Neither group could take over the government.  This terrorism alert status is exactly the same logic that brought 2004 RNC to NYC. It explains how the Pentagon lost $2.3 trillion. Another contradiction between Republicans wanting smaller government and the need to raise an army of accountants to oversee the finances of the Pentagon.

Imagine that the goal of overthrowing the government was not to occupy the White House indefinitely, but rather loot the US Treasury under the cover of the War on Terror and leave the US Tax Payer with a thank you note.


[ Parent ]
This Is Still All Jumbled (0.00 / 0)
The 9/11 investigation was certainly inadequate & questions about the virtually non-existent air defense response are right up there.  But the "Loose Change" crowd goes way beyond that, and what that's got to do with looting the government is quite beyond me.  Why not talk about the much more obvious and straightforward stealing of the presidency in plain sight in 2000?

Still, they've been stealing elections for some time now (1968, 1980), but that's not quite the same thing as inciting sedition on a mass scale.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
el rushbo (4.00 / 1)
"President Clinton's ties to the domestic terrorism of Oklahoma City are tangible; talk radio's ties are nonexistent. We had nothing to do with it."

this is up there with mccain saying I never considered myself a maverick...

ps. thanks for the diary Paul
good, very good stuff


Clear example (4.00 / 4)
The clear example of what happens when one side will not accept the legitimate election of another political party is not the Whiskey Rebellion' it's the Civil War.  

The groups fronting the Civil War were not ragtag militias but leading politicians at the national and state level and long time polemicists.  Jefferson Davis was educated at West Point and was a US Senator and former Secretary of War.  His first wife was the daughter of a President of the United States.  John Breckinridge served as the Vice President of the United States under Buchanan before finishing as the runner up to Lincoln in the electoral college and becoming a Confederate general.  John Tyler, once President of the United States served in the Confederate congress.

Decades of newspaper editorials and speeches drove the future confederates to insist on more and more extreme positions and to allow no compromise and no room for the voice of the people (if it disagreed) to be expressed in elections (see Bloody Kansas, the election of Lincoln).  Limbaugh and Company would have felt right at home with the way these groups functioned.

This isn't to say that Limbaugh and friends are driving us towards a Civil War.  It is to say that some of the same dynamic is now in play.


Quite True (4.00 / 3)
It's no accident that "out of nowhere" people started talking about secession last year.  This is what they always do.  They wrap themselves in the flag when they're in power, and they're ready to burn it when they're not.

And don't forget, they had God on their side!  As abolitionism spread in the North, defenses of slavery increasing relied on the Bible. And those by Northern clergymen were among the most popular.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
MY FATHER THE TEA-BAGGER AND WHAT HE THINKS! (4.00 / 4)
My own father is a Tea-bagger who listens to Rush & Glenn Beck all day. I wasn't paying really close attention about 5 years ago when he started lamenting about how terrible it was that in the future this won't be a white person's country any more (culturally, linguistically). But it's really important to see EXACTLY what people like him are REALLY thinking.

He gets violently angry with anybody who considers him a racist BTW -- in his own mind he's not, he's just lamenting the "death of White European Civilization."

I dismissed his sentiments as simply those of an old reactionary. But, today these sentiments are widely echoed all over the media and it's well past time to examine them seriously.

It was "our" country until "they" (the Muslims, the immigrants, the lazy blacks who all want to be on government welfare with my tax dollars (forget about all the ways that I'M on "government welfare" with THEIR tax dollars), the "fags" and the "femi-Nazi woman's libbers" and the "tree-hugger environmental-extremists" took it over.

Now "we" have to take it back.

Except they are really pessimistic that they ever CAN "take it back." They might roll back taxes and end "government subsidies" for groups they hate (like poor brown and black people), but CULTURALLY and ETHNICALLY they are losing and they know it. It's no longer an 80% white country with whites dominating politically and never will be again.

Hence "immigration reform."

But, they are secretly aware that nothing they do will ever REALLY solve the problem, which is simply there are TOO MANY of the wrong kind of people in America and they are increasingly refusing to sit at the back of the bus.

And when these angry whites look into the future it has a brown face, not their own. They are lashing out in anger, but they don't really believe in their heart of hearts they will win.

NOT IF DEMOCRACY IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE!

They have to re-institute some kind of Jim Crow and CALL it "democracy" -- to prevent the "wrong" type of people from voting or exercising political power so that "they" can't "betray America" (i.e. do things that benefit people they don't like). (Hence the campaign against ACORN -- the symbol of empowering the "wrong type" of people.)

Or better yet, simply eliminate the power of elections altogether if possible. I.e. they are just as much blanket fascists as the Germans of the 1930s who couldn't see a way to prevent those terrible trade unionists and Social Democrats from running things unless they eliminated democracy altogether and put a "real German" in charge.

Limbaugh and Beck would be right at home in the Nazi party of the 30's alright!

The right-wing with the election of Obama had a wake up call that America was slipping out of their control. My father for long just couldn't believe it would happen and then was profoundly depressed for months afterward about how terrible it all was and the hopeless state of the nation now that we actually had a BLACK president (although he would NEVER say it like that or even admit it to himself). Now he's out there "organizing" and attending tea-bag events in a hopeless effort to turn back time.

All the wrong people had, in short, after so many decades finally banded together to TAKE OVER! And now "we need to take our country back."

It's just that there's no viable long-term political strategy for them -- except to get rid of democracy altogether and institute a police state, hence the increasing calls for secession and violence.  


Sounds REALLY Familiar (0.00 / 0)
But I KNOW it's more painful at close range.  My dad went through something like that over 40 years ago.  Voted for LBJ in '64 and Nixon in '68.  Meanwhile my mom voted for Dick Gregory on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket.  (Some folks been waiting a looooong time for a black president!)

My dad never did recover, though he did mellow a bit.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sedition | 21 comments
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