Response to Jamelle Bouie

by: Chris Bowers

Mon May 24, 2010 at 14:35


It is necessary that I response to a charge against Paul Rosenberg made by this morning by Jamelle Bouie, who is subbing for Yglesias while he is in China:

I need help understanding how OpenLeft's Paul Rosenberg can credibly argue that Barack Obama has manically embraced "discredited conservative ideas" and "helped enormously in extended the hegemonic continuity of [the] Nixon-Reagan Eara. [Emphasis his]" More specifically, I need help understanding this strange impulse among liberals of Rosenberg's ilk to understate or dismiss most of the work Congress and President Obama have done over the past sixteen months, especially when - as David Leonhardt noted in yesterday's New York Times - it's been a burst of activity that "rivals any other since the New Deal in scope or ambition."

To help provide that understanding, back in February Matthew Yglesias himself offered a pretty good list of the mainstream progressive / liberal goals for the 111th Congress.  This list is invariably incomplete (in particular, reproductive rights, DC representation and many civil liberties issues come to mind), but still serves as a useful touchstone

It's worth reviewing the mainstream liberal policy agenda for the 111th Senate:

  • A $1.2 trillion stimulus.
  • The forcible breakup of large banks.
  • Universal health care with a public option linked to Medicare rates.
  • An economy-wide cap on carbon emissions, with the permits auctioned.
  • Repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell.
  • A path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
  • An exit strategy from Afghanistan.
  • An end to special exemption of military spending from fiscal discipline.
  • An independent Consumer Financial Protection Agency.
  • The Employee Free Choice Act.

None of these things have happened.  And it's worth emphasizing that the White House hasn't even seriously attempted to do the vast majority of these things.

Three months later, none of these things have still happened.  Further, it seems quite possible that none of them will happen.  As such, hopefully this list helps provides Bouie with the necessary help in understanding the progressive / liberal arguments that their public policy goals for the 111th Congress have gone largely unfulfilled.

Personally, I differ a bit from Paul in that I lean toward the Ed Kilgore analysis that the Obama administration is governing largely from a Third Way ideological perspective distinct from either contemporary progressivism or Nixon / Reagan conservatism.  However, that perspective still renders the approach of the Obama administration distinct from the laundry list of progressive / liberal goals articulated by Matt Yglesias back in February.

Moving on, Bouie also levels a more personal charge that requires response (emphasis mine):

This isn't to say that there haven't been disappointments - Obama's adoption of Bush-era detainee policy has been particularly galling - but on the whole, Obama's presidency has been a success for the idea of liberal, activist government. Right now, liberals (again, of Rosenberg's ilk) ought to spend less time lamenting Obama's aversion to ideological orthodoxy and more time working to defend and improve progressive governance.

Excuse me?  The Open Left community ("Rosenberg's ilk") has collectively engaged in a significant amount of direct action attempting to improve progressive governance over the past sixteen months.  Both in the form of consulting with major established groups and in the form of multiple, direct action campaigns of our own, we have worked on health reform, Wall Street reform, LGBT rights, prominent Democratic primaries, and filibuster reform.  And those links by no means encompass all of our activism campaigns over the past year.

There is no justification to the implication that we are whining without doing anything about it.  Leveling such a charge against Open Left requires lumping us into some pre-set stereotype of do-nothing, left-wing whiners that belies an almost total lack of familiarity with Open Left.  If anything, since early June of 2009, Open Left has been far more skewed toward direct action than toward the analysis-based lamentations that Jamelle Bouie finds annoying.  We are neck deep in these fights, and to imply otherwise is simply inaccurate.

Chris Bowers :: Response to Jamelle Bouie

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Actions Speak Louder than Words (4.00 / 7)
Obama's policies, to date, have overwhelmingly benefited traditional Republican interests at the expense of traditional Democratic interests. Yet Obama and his supporters want to be called Democrats? Because any politician can and will say anything, you have to judge not on words but on actions.

Chris, there may be a Third Way Democrat but it still boils down to who benefits most from the policies the politician pushes. DLC types and Blue Dogs and ConservaDems have almost exclusively pushed policies that hurt Democratic constituencies, working class people and small businesses, while promoting the interests and hegemony of Republican interests, the wealthy and giant corporations.

Third Way, Wrong Way, whatever. They're not Democrats at the policy level. And real Democrats have the responsibility to push back every way we can to get our party back. Obama is welcome to join the Republicans, to make his policies rational and coherent, or he's welcome to change to Democratic policies. But he can't expect to have it both ways uncontested.


The only thing close to an error in this great rebuttal. (0.00 / 0)
to imply otherwise is simply inaccurate.

I would object to simply, as it is really far from simple. Obvious would work well, "purposely" could be substituted or "typically" would do in a pinch.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


What's the difference between (0.00 / 0)
'helped enormously' and 'done little to reduce?'

A Distinction WIthout A Difference? (4.00 / 9)
Thanks, Chris!  I've been busy wearing my Random Lengths News hat this morning, and haven't even had the chance to check in here, much less scour the intertubes for incoming fire.  There's just two things I would want to add:

(1)

Personally, I differ a bit from Paul in that I lean toward the Ed Kilgore analysis that the Obama administration is governing largely from a Third Way ideological perspective distinct from either contemporary progressivism or Nixon / Reagan conservatism.

I think that when Bush took over from Clinton, the trajectory of Tony Blair's response showed just how little difference there is in this distinction when push comes to shove. (See also, "What's wrong with the third 'Third Way'".)

(2) Raising awareness of issues, arguments and points of view that normally get short shrift is also an integral part of getting things done in a pragmatic sense. When we surrender to others the right to determine the shape and substance of the battle, then we surrender the battle itself.

Of course this doesn't apply when it's just an act done in service of a "holier-than-thou" drama.  But anyone who's read me for any time at all knows where I stand when attacked "from the left" with that type of crap.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Alla riscossa (4.00 / 4)
If you are now the anointed leader of the incredible ilk, where do I sign up?

[ Parent ]
Got Ilk? (4.00 / 2)
I do!

Who knew?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You are so much more in touch (4.00 / 2)
with what many of us consider to be true progressive liberalism.   I look forward to your columns always Paul.  
Whoever that person was that was trashing your pov really irritated me, but did not surprise me at all on that site.  IMO, that site has never been particularly open minded, progressive or even liberal.  The sexism there has bothered me for a long time as well as the many anti-public education posters.

I chose not to respond there cause frankly people that close minded to even write such a diary are not worthy of the time of day.


[ Parent ]
weak, very weak argument (4.00 / 2)
to understate or dismiss most of the work Congress and President Obama have done over the past sixteen months,

what have they done? go ahead, tell us

especially when - as David Leonhardt noted in yesterday's New York Times - it's been a burst of activity that "rivals any other since the New Deal in scope or ambition." ... working to defend and improve progressive governance.

activity doesn't equal progressive governance


it's been a burst of activity that "rivals any other since the New Deal in scope or ambition." (4.00 / 4)
Because LBJ never existed.

(rolls eyes)


Though probably #2, after LBJ. (4.00 / 3)
One of the strange things about comparing presidents is the bar is very low.  You don't have to disagree with Paul to rank Obama relatively highly.  Obama only has to compete with Clinton and JFK, after all, or perhaps Eisenhower.

[ Parent ]
Just So (4.00 / 2)
Carter never even really got his footing.

Though, come to think of it, if you want to give Nixon credit for all the stuff that Congress did on his watch that he signed off on, that would be some stiff competition, too.

No question about it, Nixon's environmental record is way ahead of Obama's so far.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
. (0.00 / 0)
To be fair, if you read Rosenberg's blogs (the weekend propaganda pieces), its 90% criticism and arguing about how the left is fundamentally right and how the right is fundamentally wrong. He likes to preach practicality, but its sad to see that all of his posts are ideology. I don't know exactly what he does besides his posts, but judging from the length of his posts, probably not much else. I mean to be fair, compare posts by Adam and Paul. Adam posts relevant topics to today arguing for a repeal of DADT. Paul makes seminars on why Reganism has failed and why Regan is the worst President of all time, complaining why media is biased, why the left is different from the right, etc.  

There is a place for that, though (4.00 / 4)
Given his posts about the Port of LA, it seems his day job fits your definition of practical, anyway.

But don't undervalue theory.  Most here are following someone's theory, whether they know it or not.


[ Parent ]
"All of his posts are ideology." (4.00 / 5)
Using polysyllabic words when you don't know what they mean does not make you look smart, it makes you look dumb.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
To make a comment about the substance of the question (0.00 / 0)
To make a comment about the substance of the question IE why do people like Rosenberg dismiss real accomplishments.

I think there are two main reasons.

1.  They don't care about those issues.

2.  They seek to move the discourse to the left.

Its like how firedoglake repeated shrill opposition to the bill right up until it was threatened.  The opposition was never real and no one took it seriously.  But emotionally it made Obama a moderate.

http://transgendermom.blogspot....


Care to share some of these "real accomplishments?" (4.00 / 6)


Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Obama's policies (4.00 / 6)
How dare someone suggest Obama has embraced Republican ideas, just because his idea of health care reform was Mitt Romney's plan, his idea of energy reform is more offshore drilling, his idea of civil rights mirrors that of Bush, his idea of military policy is endless escalation, his idea of housing reform is privatizing HUD, his idea of education reform is testing-heavy private sector-promotion, and his idea of deficit reduction is a spending freeze and (likely) gutting of Social Security?

The progressive / centrist divide seems to be widening and hardening (4.00 / 6)
I've been arguing these points on Facebook for a week, always against Democratic supporters of Obama.

In many cases the loyalists, rather than just disagreeing, seem to have little idea what the progressive objections are. Often they also advocate an optimistic centrist theory (about strategy, tactics, and how things happen) which isn't grounded on knowledge or experience, but just hope.

They're quick to talk about "lefty ideologues", "ideology", "purists", "purism", etc. -- the same old centrist dismissals. In effect, they agree with Obama's stonewalling progressives, but some of them support Obama's move by denying that he did it.

Always the lesser-evil argument. I've had to explain in three different contexts that yes, I know that Obama is better than McCain. Politics for them consists of the choice you're offered between A and B.

A lot of Obama's appeal seems to have been just the idea that he'd make things OK again, with no particular content except an end to contention. So progressive critics are just as bad as winger critics, because they keep things from being peaceful again. It's close to a cult of personality and pretty scary.

 


My reading of Republican v. Third Way (4.00 / 3)
What I see is that each Democratic President timidly undoes a few of the Republican changes but passively accepts and, in effect, ratifies the others. Nixon, Ragan, and Bush II all were transformational, and Carter, Clinton, and Obama very weakly made a few corrections. Basically it's two steps back, one step forward, with a net of one step back per Prez. (I don't knwo where Bush I fits in this scheme).

This is probably close to Paul's idea. It amounts to saying that the Third Way is just a meaningless label for partial ratification. And maybe I'm wrong.


[ Parent ]
I don't think you're wrong (4.00 / 3)
What I do think is that people accept the idea that the political status quo is a force of nature -- like earthquakes, or volcanos, or tsunamis -- which can't be opposed in even the slightest of ways except at a terrible cost.

It's not so much that they're craven, or -- pace Paul R -- that they've been captured intellectually. It's just that they're so used to thinking of themselves as atomized individuals -- consumers rather than citizens -- that they can no longer see a path that leads from a single disgruntled and unconvinced person to a social movement with real power.

In truth, I might be just as daunted but for my experience during the Viet Nam era. I watched us move the whole country then, and I've never forgotten it. We were actually able to part the Red Sea for a moment, and even though the waters crashed back together soon enough, and drowned a lot of us, there was that brief moment. It was as real as the Military Industrial Complex as long as it lasted, no matter what the revisionists have spent the last forty years denying.


[ Parent ]
It Was More Than A Brief Moment (4.00 / 3)
In truth, I might be just as daunted but for my experience during the Viet Nam era. I watched us move the whole country then, and I've never forgotten it. We were actually able to part the Red Sea for a moment, and even though the waters crashed back together soon enough, and drowned a lot of us, there was that brief moment.

Why do you think that the only country Reagan invaded was Grenada?

Why do you think Bush I didn't go to Baghdad?

Why do you think Bush II had to lie his ass off to invade Iraq?

The anti-war movement changed mainstream America's thinking about war & peace at a very profound, lasting level.

And it came along on top of the Civil Rights Movement. And helped give impetus to the feminist movement and the environmentalist movement.

So, yeah, there's a reason that some of us "lefty ideologues" think that we can change the world.

Because we already have.

Not by ourselves, of course.  But part of what makes us lefty ideologues is that we know in our bones that nothing is ever done by ourselves.

And that goes for maintaining the evil of the world just as much as it goes for fighting against it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You have a point, (4.00 / 2)
but there's another way to look at it, which is that institutions outlive individuals. We put a hitch in their gitalong, true enough, but we didn't take their toys away from them, nor did we manage to reform or replace the institutions which nurtured them and allowed them to come back at us again for a second bite of the apple.

If we'd really been successful, Rumsfeld and Cheney would have disappeared without a trace, along with Poindexter and Wolfowitz, Perle and Feith and Ollie North. (And a partridge in a pear tree, but you get what I mean about all these retreads being back in the high life again.)

We also wouldn't have people shouting nigger at John Lewis, or ruling that corporations are exactly the animals that Orwell warned us were going to be more equal than others.

And yeah.... It's a glass half full or half empty, but either way I suppose it is the same glass after all. When you've seen the Promised Land, at least you can't be deceived into thinking that it doesn't exists.


[ Parent ]
Oh, Absolutely (4.00 / 1)
I don't for a minute pretend that we got the whole job done.  Quite the contrary.  We scared them so badly that they responded by building an ideological monolith the likes of which our country has never seen before.

And now we're trying to fight back.  Us "lefty ideologues" that is.  Those who sneer at us ala JB, not so much.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Your words are true and accurate (0.00 / 0)
I missed the "Viet Nam era" due to extreme youth - all I got was the backlash, none of the unity (such as it was).

Yet, I too, have watched "us" move the whole country and I'll never forget it. Not just the steady march to the right politically amd socially, not just resegregation, not just the new ultra-rich aristocrasy and the oligarchs. It happens every year on the TV and the internet - diminished to a marketing scheme, certainly - but that's the only kind of movement we seem to have left in this nation - lining up at the feeding trough or queing for the latest piece of electronic diversion to spew from the mount.

Meanwhile, I have to look abroad for inspiration.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Circular reasoning (4.00 / 3)
So the very young Jamelle Bouie quotes more senior figures from Versailles.  Quoting Versailles, especially opinion pieces proves nothing.  Bouie does not represent a community nor does he seem to have experience as an actual honest to God reporter just a mild mannered BA whose experience started in 2010.  Give him this, he writes well.

While Bouie connects with a blog that includes mention of avocado along with the political a google of Paul brings a fascinating, if totally imaginary, character to light.  He's the manager of Eminem, a French art dealer who lived from 1861 to 1959, and a Harvard MD/PhD who specializes in neurology and sleep disorder as well as a reporter and a blogger on Open Left.  What a guy.

Remember the days when Open Left was proclaiming "Make Me Do It."  That may have worked for FDR but certainly Versailles is scared, scared, scared of Make Me Do It.  Leave the man behind the curtain alone and go along with your business.  Let us be "responsible" although certainly not representative and slash Social Security and Medicare but leave the two wars alone and don't tax hedge fund loop holes or estate taxes on billionaires.  Not popular outside of Versailles.  Not at all.  But what do they care.

Go get 'em Paul.


You can tell (4.00 / 1)
When someone uses the term "ilk" it's a signal that they don't intend to seriously listen to them.  In fact, "ilk" are the other.  A person who calls others "ilk" only listens to "our sort."

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