"Any suggestions for HOW?"

by: John Emerson

Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 16:00


( - promoted by Paul Rosenberg)

    Most of what I've written here at Open Left has been historical and critical, with a special emphasis on how the Democratic Party got to be the way it is. One reader asked "Any suggestions for HOW?"  in the comments to my most recent post, and I started to sketch an actual strategy for change, though what I said wasn't very concrete. So, while I don't regard myself either as a strategist or a tactician and doubt that anyone else does, here's what I think.

 Chris Bowers has given his answer to that question. In his recent "Theory of Change: How I Stopped Being a Radical" Chris Bowers argued that third-party efforts and leftist agitation tend to be futile, so that working for incremental change within the existing structures, including the Democratic Party, is the best option we have. At this point I mostly agree about the futility of the third parties and fringe movements but have my doubts about the long term possibilities of incremental change. At the moment the US is following the Chomsky-Klein schedule and careening toward becoming an authoritarian neoliberal empire. Without a long term strategy for reversing the direction of change, short term incremental successes will be of limited value and probably won't even be very durable.  

 

I'm going to assume the following points:  

  • Obama has proven to be exactly what we feared that Hillary would be: an authoritarian neoliberal militarist.
  • This is intentional and from conviction; he's not a secret liberal or progressive. He has nothing but contempt for progressives and has no intention of giving us anything at all. Obama is a neoliberal neocon. (Alterman disagrees with me on this.)
  • At the present moment, only about 10% of the electorate agrees with us politically enough to oppose Obama. The most significant anti-Obama forces are on the right, and they are far worse than he is. Most non-rightists are just so glad to have Bush out of office that they're more than happy to "give Obama a chance". The revolt of the Democratic base didn't happen.  
  • The present commercial media are hopeless shallow and rightwing. Along with the Republican Party and the Democratic Party leadership they're at the top of our list of adversaries.  They're unlikely to improve much.
  • For progressives, the world Obama wants to see will be intolerable. If we can't stop him, we're probably defeated for good.  

These are strong assumptions but, with the possible exception of #5, I think that most Open Left readers accept them. (#3 I learned from Chris himself.)  

So what would progressives have to do to fight neoliberalism effectively?

John Emerson :: "Any suggestions for HOW?"

We need more progressives.

The first and most obvious thing: 5-10% of the electorate isn't enough. The Democrats need us but they don't fear us.  

Progressives have to work harder.

This is the nagging part. If a million progressives each donated $50 a year to  progressive movement, that would be a respectable war chest. If five million progressives donated $100 a year that would be half a billion dollars. It's much the same with volunteer time. My general impression is that some progressives are discouraged and resigned, some are complacently waiting for the problem to fix itself, some hope for non-political politics and are unwilling to soil their hands or make enemies, some are obsessed with their own independence, and some are having too much fun to be able to budget much time or money toward politics.  

Progressives have to commit and focus.

No one should ever give a dime to any national Democratic Party committee, and most  state party committees should also be boycotted. We can't let our enemies in the Democratic Party channel our money any longer -- while it's true that they do have a grand national strategy, defeating us is part of the strategy. We should give to primary candidates, good candidates in the general elections, and progressive media. (One lesson of the Halter near-miss in Arkansas is that every dollar we spend on primaries helps twice. It helps first by getting the word out, sending a message to the Democrats, and possibly electing our candidate, but it also helps by taking money away from Rahm Emannuel. The Democrats could have used the $10,000,000 they threw away by going all in for Lincoln.)  

Furthermore (and this part is more controversial), progressives should quit giving to apolitical, non-partisan single-issue groups. Most progressive issues can only be won either by a third party victory (unlikely) or by taking over the Democratic Party and winning elections with it -- you need a change of regime. There are a few issues which might be winnable within a world dominated by neoliberals / neocons, but in my opinion to accept that world is to give up.   Single-issue groups are good for lobbying on smallish issues where support can be found in both parties. On the big environmental, military, civil liberties, and equality issues you need to be in charge.

The progressive slide to single issue groups had many causes. First, a few issues are actually nonpartisan and can be won without major political changes: this is centrist bipartisanship, and it works when you're aiming at small victories within a generally grim overall situation. Second, there are many issues upon which both parties are wrong and single issue advocacy is the only option: this is left non-partisanship. And third, many progressives who have an aversion to partisan politics, and to public commitment, and want to find a less messy, less embarrassing  way of being active which makes fewer enemies: call this timid non-partisanship.In my opinion all of these strategies are futile except the first, but that one  is essentially anti-progressive since it involves winning a few issues while surrendering all the others.  

Progressives need a group identity superseding all their other political identities, especially but not only "Democrat", Only when the political effects of progressive group action become clearly perceivable will progressives get any respect, and to a degree this means that progressives hurt the party leadership before they can be players. "Don't worry about the progressives, they'll come along" said Rahm, and so far he's been right.  

New media  

With a very few exceptions the commercial media are inane and effectively right-wing. As a result, ambient political opinion in the U.S. is either center-right or hard right. "Low-information voters"  pick their opinions out of the air based on TV, radio, and the scuttlebutt they hear, whereas disengaged non-voters have few opinions and don't think that voting is worth it. These are the voters we'll have to reach in order to accomplish anything, but we really have no way of doing that at present. Our adversaries have reached these people: confusing the voters and discouraging them from voting is central to the Republican strategy. If they can't recruit a voter to the Republican side, they try to convince him to stay home. (Cynicism works for the Republicans; it's neither neutral nor "transgressive".)

The answers to this are first, person-to-person outreach (see below), and second, new media: print, TV, or radio (probably not-for-profit). A very large proportion of the electorate never hears a progressive message. I've been pushing the new media idea for five years and have received almost no response of any kind. No one seems to be interested -- why, I don't know.  Laziness, lack of imagination, defeatism, and blindness to the need come to mind, but I also suspect that a snobbish disdain for the low-information voters and non-voters we need to reach is a major factor. (Liberals tended to sneer at Air America and delight in its problems, and when it failed, no one seemed to understand what a disaster that was).

  Our message won't deliver itself.  The internet is what has kept us alive, but it's far from enough, and I'm not sure that with the present media anything at all is possible. Maybe creating a new media is impossible. If so, maybe we're doomed.  

The Democrats interest-group strategy  

The Democratic Party defines itself as a coalition of minorities. For the last year or so I've been explaining how that came to be and describing the consequences. Historically it traces back to urban boss politics -- if Boss Tweed could play the Italians against the Irish against the Jews against the Poles, he wouldn't be completely dependent on any single group and could keep all of them on a string while he decided how to pass out the goodies. Likewise, if upstate New York was controlled by Republicans, the two parties could engineer a situation of rough equality where neither side got everything it wanted, allowing the leadership to cut back room deals and claim that no better was possilble. Likewise, both parties could use horror stories about the other party to scare voters into their own net.  

After WWII this system was revised as the urban machines became less important and the federal government more important, but a lot of factors remained the same, and the Democratic Party intelligentsia (Schlesinger, Hofstadter, Bell, Galbraith, and Niebuhr) developed a double rationale for it. First, the pluralists claimed that The People" was impossible to define, and that there could be no such thing as majoritarian politics. because there was no majority but just a myriad of overlapping groups. The second anti-populist argument was probably more important, however. Based in the European experience, the pluralist liberals claimed that, because of original sin and mass stupidity, majoritarian politics is a bad thing which tends strongly toward racism, nativism, fascism, communism, and so on. Finally, the anti-majoritarians claimed that class was no longer important in American life, since everyone was more or less middle class, and that the real divisions were between styles of consumption -- highbrow, middlebrow, lowbrow, U, non-U, etc. (These same intellectuals yearned for elitist rule by U, highbrow intellectuals such as themselves, and thought that Kennedy would bring them that.)  

This new philosophy rationalized the divide-and-conquer tactics of the party leadership and their determination to make majoritarian politics impossible, and since American society is supposedly classless, it also justified the Democrats' willingness to cut deals with big business. Beyond that it pointed the way to the kind of fragmented minority cultural politics that dominates America and the Democratic Party today, where the Democrats end up arbitrating feuds between Hispanics and blacks, transsexuals and lesbians, etc., and can't even think of majoritarianism, and where liberalism sometimes seems to an aspect of a superior lifestyle, like good food and nice shoes.     

A New Demographic  

Demographic analysis of the electorate has its uses and can't be neglected, but it locks in the anti-majoritarian interest-group strategy of the Democratic Party and allows the Democrats to ignore the common interest and repress majoritarianism. In particular, they ignore the interests of the ordinary 90% when they conflict with the interests of the top 10%, the top 1%, and the corporations. ("Ignore" might be too strong a word, but the Democratic target on this issue is minimal -- they only need to be perceptibly better than the Republicans.) And worse yet, the Democrats present mix of voting demographics has locked the Democrats into a permanent #2 "me too" status.  

I do not see how the Democrats can win with the present demographic mix, and it's even less likely that they will become more progressive with this mix. My reading of the Democratic demographic is something like: racial minorities, Jews, single women, union labor, HS teachers, old New Dealers (almost extinct), and people in the arts, the universities, and the non-profits. (I'm sure I've missed a couple.) Campaigning consists of mobilizing these groups while trying to steal a few moderates from the increasingly-insane Republicans, at the cost of angering and disappointing the loyal Democrats. *  

While what I really propose is majoritarian politics, but in practice it  will be translated into finding new demographics to court. The usual nominees are moderates, centrists, independents, and Southerners, but these demographics pull the Democrats in an anti-progressive direction and, in fact, are proposed for that purpose. Angry, alienated Republicans (Pat Buchanan's following and the teabaggers) are also not an option even if they do end up rejecting the Republican Party. The demographics I have in mind, which overlap extensively, are the unemployed, infrequent voters, non-voters, and low information voters. (To these could be added everyone anywhere hurt by the long, deep recession).  

However, at this point we butt up against several problems. One is that the teabaggers and racists are already out there recruiting. A second is that, as I have said, the media do not give these people any way to understand what's happening; we're starting from zero. A third is that most of these groups are hard to reach and  hard to mobilize -- in the nature of things the outreach would have to be labor-intensive and to a considerable degree face-to- face, and we don't seem to have the horses.  

We also butt up against my pet problem: Democratic elitism. The demographics I just named as potentially progressive are mostly boring, moderately-educated ordinary folk with unsophisticated tastes, and there are even some hillbillies and trailer trash. The domination of the Democratic Party (including its progressive faction, to be fair) by what I've called the"wonk demographic" -- a domination which is not numerical but institutional -- is a severe handicap even when strategizing an approach to low information voters, etc., much less when directly contacting them. (I am reminded here of  what I saw during the 2008 election --  OFA parachuting in cheerful, freshly scrubbed college students who essentially were between jobs or taking a year off school.)

The first problem is that it causes people to misunderstand the American right wing, which is generally more prosperous and better-educated than the average American -- the better-educated tend toward either of the two extremes, whereas less educated and less engaged people tend toward cautiousness and moderation.)** But the second problem may be more important: the wonk's scorn for uneducated voters, a scorn which is nothing more than the aggressive affirmation of wonk identity at the expense of accurate perception, and which cuts off Democrats and progressives from the very voter groups which would make it possible for progressive Democrats to become the dominant party.

 Conclusion  

I actually don't have a conclusion. The economic downturn gives us an opportunity against both major parties. Rather than just fight for the same old voting demographics, we need to get the word out, reach new people, and change people's minds. We need to develop a group identity and a group strategy separate from that of the Democratic Party. We need to play a complicated inside-outside game with the Democrats, supporting them some of the time and opposing them some of the time. We have to gain their respect by showing some strength and beating them a few times in the primaries. Until we hurt them, they'll always despise us.      

NOTES

* I'll just throw this one out. I multiplied everything out and as far as I can tell, white heterosexual Christians make up about 50% of the electorate. Even if you slice four ways, white heterosexual middle class Christians make up more than 25% of the electorate. Minority rights and inclusiveness are good things, but minority-based strategies are intrinsically weak. If you use the OR instead of the AND on the four sl;ices, something like 99% of the population belongs to one of the groups defined as Republican -- everyone but poor nonwhite non-Christian sexual minorities. And minorities have strong incentives to identify with the majority when they are allowed to.  

** As for Republican stupidity, while some of it is genuine stupidity, it can also be manipulative rhetoric by smart people who know that what they're saying is not true, obfuscation by smart people who do not want to reveal their true agenda, or the defiant perversity of a student deliberately giving wrong answers -- for the Democrats do represent the teacher class.  

MORE GOOD STUFF

Jon Walker at Firedoglake has put up a series of posts about the North Dakota Nonpartisan League's Inside/outside strategy. The Nonpartisan League around 1915-1940 was The US's most successful left movement / party ever: Part One, Part Two, Part Three, Part Four, Part Five. I've had the NPL in mind in much of what I've written here.

 

 


Tags: (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email

this is awesome (4.00 / 4)
and a great counterpoint/counterbalance to the polyanna "working slowwwwwwwwwwly within the system (even though everyone in the system fucking hates us)" approach some inexplicably favor

A Couple of Comments (4.00 / 3)
First off, this is a really excellent post, and everything I'm about to say is relatively small potatoes compared to the main thrust here, which largely reflects my own thinking: we need to control our own destiny as much as possible, particularly the terms on which we will strategically and tactically choose to work with others against a common foe.  My own way of thinking about this is in terms of what I call "para-party organizing".  It'd party-like in that it's multi-issue and multi-constituent organizing, intended to gain and exercise political power, but it's not constrained by being carried out entirely within the party structure, to keep it free from party control.  And while we differ on a few points here and there, I think were largely on the same page.

That said, there are some disagreements.  For example, I think that single-issue organizing had some validity in the past that's simply been lost by the way that the political universe has changed.  This has virtually no practical consequences within the scope of this diary, but it can be important in terms of more theoretical discussion.  Since history matters to me as source of insight, I find it important to distingquish things that may make no sense now from similar things that may have made sense in the past, otherwise, by misapprehending the past, I make it more difficult to understand the present and possible future.

Something similar applies to your interest group analysis, which is very well and concisely put: I would only argue that it didn't always work out as neatly as those in charge might have wanted.  While I agree entirely that it was fixed game that progressive populists could never really win, I would argue that there times when much more could be gained simply because of the balances of forces than is possible today.

While I don't have any grand strategic conclusion, either, I do think that pushing towards more independent institution building is absolutely vital.  With it, new possibilities can be created.  Without it, even the most fortunate opportunities will never fully be taken advantage of.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Single issue groups necessitate minority strategies (4.00 / 2)
While you're absolutely right about the historical benefits of single-issue groups and what they accomplished back in the day, the problem always was going to be in the proliferation of groups that make broader consensus building extremely difficult. This is worsened by the simple fact that a lot of these groups are in competition with each other for membership and money.

If these groups had started to coalesce into larger groups with broader constituencies over time, this wouldn't be an issue now. But instead, if you're running a campaign, you've got all these various groups to deal with, many of which have very narrow agendas... and you've got to try to find a way to get them all on board. In this sense, it weakens the whole effort, by focusing so much on narrow interests. I lamented this problem 20 years ago and it hasn't really improved much since. The bottom line is with single-issue groups, it's all too easy for cynical people and groups to use these as foils against each other.

This, of course, is why I like the idea of "para-party" organizing, as you put it. It's not something that requires wholesale institutional regime change, but it's a pretty simple way of banding together constituencies into larger blocs. Even if it's somewhat informal. In the end, it might help propel people towards achieving regime change in the larger party. Or, alternatively, it might mature into a party of it's own at some point. But in any case, such organizing could lead to a genuine "swing vote" demographic that isn't a pollster driven fabrication, like the current ones mostly are. That would represent a significant growth in influence.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Slavery was a single issue, as was civil rights and women's suffrage (0.00 / 0)
. At certain historical moments, your argument has been used to support the status quo. Furthermore, the right has used single issues to form the group of Republicans in office. The single issues add up. Together, they were used to transform the Republican party.

[ Parent ]
I think you miss my point. (4.00 / 3)
Single issues do add up, as you say. But they also make it really easy to manipulate people. Let's take the GOP example, since you brought it up. Their biggest of these is abortion. By developing that litmus test, they did transform the party. The party has also always used that issue as a dog whistle to control their voter base. Their craven use of single issues to distract their polity from all their hypocrisy, criminality and outright corruption worked beautifully and still does. But did the GOP ever end abortion?

Of course not. Why? Because then you lose that audience when the job's done, because that's all they care about. This also works for Democrats as well. Choice, environment, the right to organize, food quality, energy... list goes on. The result is that people listen for that one sentence in a 25 minute speech that speaks to them. And that's it.

In this sense, both parties have been transformed by single-issues, but I would argue not in a good way as time passes on, since it encourages people to think too narrowly and forget the larger picture. These groups, aside from competing with their ideological opposites, also have to compete with each other. Now, I'm fine with righties competing with each other, but for liberal groups, I'd like to see a lot more bridge building.


"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
The 1860 Republicans were not a single issue party (4.00 / 1)
They had strong positions on a lot of issues, and after the Civil War they developed these. The 1860 was a very atypical election, in any case.

[ Parent ]
I meant the modern Republican party. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Would a more aggressive Progressive Democrats of America be a suitable vehicle? (0.00 / 0)
PDA has a very good record for sticking to their guns, which I have to respect. Two beefs that I have with them are:

1) they're not aggressive enough. While they're relatively good at "speaking truth to power", they don't seem to be willing to throw any Democrat under the bus. (Baucus is an exception, that they've stated they will try to primary. AFAIK, though, they don't have enough nerve to go after Baucus' collaborator in the healthcare farce, one Barack Obama).

2) some of their actions seems wasteful, because they're pointless. I only have one example of this in mind, so maybe 2) is a nit-pick. I participated in a conference call for their healthcare effort, and one description of an action was apparently trying to embarrass an insurance company into doing the right thing. Problem is, the "right thing" to the board of directors of a publicly traded company has everything to do with make ever greater profits, and little or nothing to do with social responsibility. There was basically no chance that this expenditure of time (and a little bit of cash) would make a difference, long term.

My question to you, though, is what problems you have with the PDA as a vehicle for progressives within the Democratic Party to start making more of a difference.

TheRealNews.com: Progressives and Obama, with PDA'er Norman Solomon


More at The Real News


More at The Real News

As far as growing membership rapidly, all I'll say on that, for now, is to check out this.

The media is a huge problem. I've also suggested a replacement media. But, I've lately rethought this, and suggested instead getting started via a scaled down proposal, which is mostly about distributing the standard fare, but uses creative "un-commercials" to educate the public and provide hooks for digging deeper. (See here and here.) Some people watch the Superbowl for the commercials just as much as the football game. If you make un-commercials which really grab people's attention, you should be able to peddle the standard fare ("fluff") through that same channel, thus a) paying your bills, by offering something that people will pay for, anyway and b) getting corporate-unfriendly messages out.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


Emerson calls for specific types of activism for progressive Dems... (0.00 / 0)
the Progressive Democrats of America is a progressive group of Dems that already exists, that meets some of Emerson's criteria...

and nobody (except me) deems it worthy to comment on this!

Amazing!

I can't help wonder if the people who read OpenLeft, while they may be sharp, don't really have the sort of life energy needed to spark real change. Real change will not come about from arguing fine points of ideas, endlessly, but by implementing new (and sometimes not-so-new) ideas, even if those ideas are untested, and some democratic experimentation will inevitably fail.

THE PDA HAS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED SOME OF THE IDEAS MENTIONED IN THIS DIARY! THEY ARE:

* Progressive
* Democrats only
* Have an inside-outside strategy
* are populist

Gee whiz, folks, does that ring any bells? Maybe it's worth starting a similar group from scratch, but it sure does seem to me that the PDA is worth at least discussing before any such start-from-scratch discussion.

From July 2010: Are PDA's vision, goals and strategy sufficient to deal with the challenges of 2010 and 2012?

After just six years, Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) has established itself as the predominant grassroots organizations affiliated with the Democratic Party. It has done this by advocating and working for progressive principles, adhering to a clear strategy and building a grassroots base. As a result PDA has become one of the few progressive organizations, according to John Nichols of The Nation, "that gets it", that doesn't just fold its principles and its base on command into the Democratic Party's tent. Our leaders and membership have much to be proud of.
...
Unfortunately, after a year and a half in office, President Obama and the ruling Democratic Party have shown no interest in creating the progressive majority that we seek. They have opposed most attempts to create a "government controlled by citizens rather than corporate elites." We've seen Obama and the Party leaders embrace corporate agendas in foreign policy, the economy, health care, energy, and trade. Labor has received little reward for its massive support in 2008. There's been a disturbing tendency to continue Bush era policies with regard to military spending, spying and torture.

Especially discouraging to PDA, we've seen our allies in Congress, the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) exercise little influence with Party leaders and refuse to act in unison on issues of principle or even on issues they have supported. Most galling PDA advisory board member and CPC co-chair, Lynn Woolsey, declined to support the courageous congressional campaign of PDA member Marcy Winograd. Instead, Woolsey conducted a brazen fund raising effort for Blue Dog incumbent, Jane Harmon. How can we challenge the Party's corporate embrace when one of our board members, the co-chair of the CPC, works for the corporate Democrats?

WAKE UP, EGGHEADS!!

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Actually, this author is proposing that the PDA consider supporting independents (0.00 / 0)
Just read the following in this same article:

1) Expand our strategic vision. Let's discuss making PDA the political arm of the progressive movement inside and outside the Party. Continue to work inside the Democratic Party and demand accountability. As Amy Dean said in her book, The New New Deal, accountability starts by making clear that merely promising to support our issues once in office is not enough. We need champions at the local, state and national levels who will carry the progressive flag during elections and into office.

But where no progressive Democrats are running or where they refuse to run on a progressive agenda, we should recruit progressive independents to run. Let the Party leaders know that they can not take progressive support for granted, that they will have to earn it. That's key to gaining accountability from Party candidates and office holders.

Well, good for them! IMO, a progressive vote bloc which is not constrained by a 'Democrats only' strategic policy is not just more flexible, but more powerful. I hope the PDA goes this route.  This is worth a quick hit.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
I disagree with a lot of the analysis here. (0.00 / 0)
The first is the idea that the Dem party uses a strategy of targeting minority groups. While this might be the case for local races, on the national level, the rhetoric and the policy are targeted toward that phantom group, white moderates. Secondly, just because a coalition is not the majority today doesn't mean that it won't be the majority tomorrow.

My problem with the analysis here is that it looks at factors in isolation and makes unwarranted conclusions. Let's take one by looking at the Obama/McCain exit polls. It is true that McCain did better among college grads, but he got absolutely creamed in the group with advanced degrees. Washington wonks are not representative of wonks around the country. Let's look at race and education: a college degree works differently for whites and non-whites. A college degree makes a non-white person more likely to vote Republican. But strangely, it makes a white person less likely to vote Republican. The factor of income, not surprisingly, works like education: being poor and white and being poor and non-white are radical positions, but they tend to produce opposed political positions.

Age, race, and geographical position are the three great determining factors. And if we don't take these things into account, we are lost. I also disagree with the idea that single-issue causes are distractions. Looking at single issues and organizing around them brings a clarity that is often lost in partisan debates.

I do understand why there is some great need to see poor, uneducated whites as the salvation of our political system, but the whole idea seems pretty far-fetched at this point in time.


I assume when you mean "majoritarian," (0.00 / 0)
you mean white. That is the only way that targeting the lowest rungs on the ladder could be called "majoritarian," especially with your closing "note" that argues that we are all white heterosexual Christians in one or another. So targeting poor black communities is divisive and a bad strategy, but targeting poor white communities is the way to the future?

[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 5)
Let me say what I mean.

One way of campaigning with the Hispanic and black communities is to focus on issues specific to Hispanics and blacks. This includes symbolic things like MLK Day and Cesar Chavez Day as well as more substantive things like racial profiling.

Another way to campaign in the Hispanic and black communities is to put full employment and an increase in the minimum wage at the top of your list of goals. This appeals to those communities, but not only to them. The people opposed to this would be businesses and freemarket ideologues, who are mostly Republicans already anyway. This would be a majority inclusive of ethnic minorities.

The majoritarianism I was talking about was specifically big business and finance against everyone else. This has what has been taboo in the Democratic Party since approximately the 50s, and which one branch of the Democratic Party has always opposed.

I was not saying that Democrats should only target the largest of the mutually exclusive groups (i.e. whites, heterosexuals, and Christians). My point was, first, that a strategy of patching together minorities is intrinsically fragile and has not been very successful; second, that that way of trying to reach a majority produced a disunited party made up of competing and often unfriendly subgroups; and third, that this way of putting together a party makes economic majoritarianism difficult or impossible and probably is popular with party leadership for that very reason.

I wasn't proposing appealing to the racial, religious, and gender-identification majorities, but proposing defining another majority on different grounds.



[ Parent ]
Advanced degrees == school teachers (0.00 / 0)
but he got absolutely creamed in the group with advanced degrees.

Remember that the bulk of people with advanced degrees are school teachers.


[ Parent ]
possibly, but i like to think that the search for knowledge (0.00 / 0)
has something to do with it. Those who work for the U of Calif. formed the single largest group (by dollar amount) among Obama's campaign contributors.

[ Parent ]
We do have a clear and substantial disagreement on almost everything (4.00 / 3)
You disagree with almost all of my points, though I can't be sure that you've heard them.

You certainly don't understand what I said about "targeting minority groups". What I said is that Democrats nail these down and rely on them ("the base") and then try to add enough moderates to get 51%. Yes, national appeals do target moderate whites. I said that And because this does often require betraying the core constituency, or seeming to, it produces a weak and fragile coalition and by and large makes economic majoritarianism difficult or impossible (because "moderates" tend to be economically conservative).

Age, race, and geographical position are the three great determining factor. This is a truism of the social science behind the present Democratic strategy. It's my premise that this strategy has been a weak one in practice (the Democrats have not been very successful since 1968) and from a progressive point of view it has been disastrous. Since this strategy has been as bad as it is, I'm looking for a new one. I'm saying that we better look for a new determining factor, because using the old truths hasn't worked. (In general, I think that the Democratic reliance on social science has been more an impediment than a tool. What I just cited above is really just the strategy itself put in the form of scientific description. New politics and a new strategy, if successful, can also be translated in social-science form after the fact.)

I've gone into the education part elsewhere at length. In conservative areas the poor and uneducated whites are conservative, but they are less conservative than the rich and educated in those areas (Gellman.) The most educated 10% and the least educated 10% tend strongly Democratic, the 80% in between tend Republican. There's no way that youcan make the meme "Republicans are the way they are because they're stupid" work unless you propose limiting voting to the most educated 10%, which is impossible and undesirable. And the frequent Democratic focus on the stupidest conservatives is itself stupid.

I do understand why there is some great need to see poor, uneducated whites as the salvation of our political system, but the whole idea seems pretty far-fetched at this point in time.

First of all, I didn't say that. I said unemployed, infrequent voters, non-voters, and low information voters. I did not propose trying to shoehorn an ethnic appeal to poor whites into the mix.

Second, my main point was that we need a new demographic. I doubt that Democrats can do better with the demographic mix that we have now. You did not contest that; you just translated what I said into language you're familiar with and rejected my proposal. You also misstate my position in a stupidly sarcastic form ("I do understand why there is some great need to see poor, uneducated whites...") which makes me suspect that you're not worth bothering worth, and function is this argument as  type case of the kind of thing I'm arguing against.


[ Parent ]
If you talk about the the need to mobilize (4.00 / 1)
"unemployed, infrequent voters, non-voters, and low information voters," I will agree that there is such a need. But when you talk about winning them over to progressive causes, you are only really talking about white low-information voters, since low-information voters of color are overwhelmingly on the left. I just question how this group, incredibly difficult to get, is going to determine our future. It seems to me with the changing demographics in this country, placing resources into winning this group is the wrong way to go.

Despite your protests, the group you are talking about is white. Why else would you say that we are in competition with the teabaggers ("...the teabaggers and racists are already out there recruiting.") Are teabaggers and racists going after uninformed blacks and hispanics? This an argument about lower-class whites. It would be more honest to acknowledge it. I think it is a perfectly relevant topic to discuss.  


[ Parent ]
BTW, the kind of America we all envision would be very good (0.00 / 0)
to those "hillbillies and trailer trash" (as you describe them). Outreach to low-information voters and to the poor are good things. But then who would disagree? Certainly not many on this site. I just disagree with your terms. I don't think that these terms are the way to see many of our political struggles. I'm not sure the reason why there are so many poor whites on the right is because of the Dem's "minority" politics. What the Dems promise (and don't deliver) to the urban ghetto is precisely what will help "hillbillies and trailer trash."

[ Parent ]
Well it isn't just appalachians that never voted for (4.00 / 1)
the democrats that are moving away. It is also northeastern labor whites that did vote for Obummer in 2008.  Having said that, the so called trailor trash are not voting republican.  They simply don't vote.  The teabaggers are middle to upper middle class.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Do you have a better suggestion? (4.00 / 3)
And yes, in a country which is 70% white, a successful voting strategy is going to have to go for white votes. Thank you for proving that your point of view really exists. You've saved me some straw man accusations. This is really cultural politics run wild.

Let me just explain that going after the votes of people who are white is not the same thing as making a racial appeal to white people. I'm am trying to get away from the demographic chopping up which defines the unsuccessful Democratic politics of the last several decades, and find ways of approaching the electorate which have an appeal across demographics.

My thesis is that the present Democratic core constituency s too small to win elections, dooming the Democrats to grovelling for "moderate" votes which are really conservative (Blue Dogs and less-crazy Republicans), thus pulling the party to the right. This has been going on for 42 years now.

I proposed that we need a new strategy and have to find a new demographic. I ruled out the teabaggers and Southern whites, and "moderates' are the constituency I'm trying to get away from. That leaves one enormous group (not exactly a demographic): discouraged voters. 43.2% of the electorate did not vote in the 2008 Presidential election. If we could recruit five points out of the 43 into the Democratic Party, we wouldn't need the moderates. And in fact this is a truism: the higher the turnout the better Democrats do. Between 1960 and 1996 turnout declined from 63.1% to 49.1%, and it's risen slightly since. My plan is to increase the turnout, even if that means that more white people end up voting for the Democrats.

I didn't describe the low-information voters as hillbillies and trailer trash. I protested the wonk Democrat's tendency to jump to the conclusion that teabaggers and conservative Republicans are hillbillies and trailer trash. (Incidentally, low-information voters isn't just poor people. It's anyone who doesn't pay attention or as far as that goes, anyone who watches Fox News).

And yes, one reason why discouraged voters are discouraged is that Democrats haven't really offered them much, and that's part of what I'm proposing that Democrats do, and in fact that's my goal. One thing I suggested was full employment and an increased minimum wage, something which would help young people, the unemployed, and poor people across racial boundaries. (But as I understand, you want me to package it racially, just so that I can't avoid the charge that I'm trying to appeal to white people.)


[ Parent ]
You already packaged it racially. (0.00 / 0)
From the beginning, when you speak of Dems as a "coalition of minorities," to this sentence,

"The demographics I just named as potentially progressive are mostly boring, moderately-educated ordinary folk with unsophisticated tastes, and there are even some hillbillies and trailer trash,"

to the ending, when you say that most have some majority characteristics (white Christian heterosexual), your entire diary frames the debate in terms of culture tied to race. Again, I have no problem with with this, even if I disagree with how productive it is. I have a problem with your denials.  


[ Parent ]
Oh, go fuck yourself (4.00 / 2)
"Minority" does not mean racial minority. It's any subgroup smaller than half. Wonks, single women, blacks, Hispanics, and sexual minorities are all minorities.

The minority strategy I've been talking about is how the Democratic Party has actually worked for decades. Nail down a set of subgroups and then patch together a majority, hopefully, by appealing to moderates or whoever.

I oppose this strategy. The whole point of almost everything I've written at OL for the last year is to oppose this strategy. I think that the Democrats should put together an economic-populist general-interest campaign instead.


[ Parent ]
BTW, this is a response to your diary, so I have used the terms (0.00 / 0)
that you offer. Personally, I don't really do cultural politics, and I tend to distrust the appeal to them. Therefore, I have a skeptical response to your argument.

[ Parent ]
WTF? (4.00 / 1)
I am arguing against cultural politics.

What I see you doing is repeating back to me the Democratic orthodoxies I'm arguing against, while ignoring the arguments I made against these points.  


[ Parent ]
You are not arguing against cultural politics. You are just (0.00 / 0)
arguing against a particular kind of strategy. Your terms are very much within the realm of cultural politics. But thanks for the diary in any case, and you have to be pleased with the dialogue it elicited, which is why we are here in the first place.

[ Parent ]
Oh for Christ's goddamn sake (4.00 / 1)
I have to mention cultural politics because it's the status quo I'm proposing to replace.

I said that we should go after discouraged voters, not a cultural category. You pointed out that among the discouraged voters there are many whites, and that that meant that I was doing cultural politics but pretending not to. But then, one of my notes at the end did say that, in fact, most Americans are white and/or heterosexual and/or Christian and that we would therefore have to include those groups among the people we'd be addressing. So I guess that means -- what? That I'm plunging into cultural politics? That I was failing to conceal my culturalism? Jesus.  


[ Parent ]
John, let me help you out here (0.00 / 0)
What you are opposing was just last week packaged up with ribbons as our reason for hope.

I refer to Ruy Teixeira's latest paper attempting to prove that Democrats cannot lose in the long run because of demographic trends.  Though Teixeira hedges his bets a little, his basic message is that in the long term the GOP is toast, because the US is or will soon be majority minority.  

This content-less analysis is basically feel-good pabulum designed to buck up liberals' hopes and keep them within the fold, convincing them that the leaders know what they are doing and want to do the right thing.

Alterman's piece, despite its rose-colored hope conclusions at least talks about real problems.  Teixeira tells us it's all demographics.  It's clear to me, at least, that the former is preferable.

But neither one is adequate.  We need an economic-populist politics that keeps the glare focused on the real enemy.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Deja vu all over again (4.00 / 2)
From time to time I mention Chester Bowles' 1959 "The Coming Political Breakthrough", which was sort of a Kennedy strategy piece. Bowles projected demographics and showed that things would get better and better for the Democrats.

By 1968 the argument was kaput. Things change, and the Republicans were smart enough to dodge the bullet.

I swear that the Democrats' Science is what kills them. Because Bowles' argument was rock-solid, like many Democratic arguments. As long as nothing changed.  


[ Parent ]
"what we feared that Hillary would be"? "we"? (4.00 / 1)
Well, let's not forget that most Hillary supporters didn't agree with that. And it somewhat looks as if they (we) had a point. Would Hillary have continued the Bush policies to such a degree as Obama did? Doubtful.

Really? Based on what Hillary did and said during her Senate (4.00 / 4)
career, and based on what she said during the election, I think the view of Hillary as a DLC neo-con is the correct one.  

[ Parent ]
Oh please. (4.00 / 6)
The Clintons fingerprints are all over the Obama WH.  Rahm, Geithner, Summers, Goldman Sachs, - nothing is any different from the old Clinton neoliberal cabal.  ... Obama is exactly what I feared Hillary would be.  If I had known they were two peas in a pod, I would have voted for the woman!  

[ Parent ]
I believe she would (4.00 / 1)
This dilemma we face with Obummer is a result of neocons gaming both parties, what makes you assume they didn't game the likely winners of the dem primary as well?

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Nobody has to be gamed (4.00 / 3)
Few Democrats are anti-neocons or anti-neoliberals. Thier resistance is slight.

[ Parent ]
most dems are actually low info voters (0.00 / 0)
and there is little that can be done to change this given the state of the media.  I don't favor majoritarian approaches in the near term.  I favor monkey wrenching.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Sorry (4.00 / 2)
That's too easy an answer, and too lazy, and too defeatist. And it only really works in Presidential contests.

Centrists can win by boycotting because they're situated between the two parties and their threat is plausible.  

The right wing didn't take over the Republicans by boycotting and threatening, they took over starting at the precinct level. There was a lot of money behind it, and a lot of time.


[ Parent ]
It is documented that the religious right stayed home in droves (4.00 / 2)
in the 92 and 96 elections.  They stayed home again in in 2006 and 2008.  They lead the republican because they aren't scared of letting them lose a term or two.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
The teabaggers are challenging the Religious Right (4.00 / 1)
The religious right is not too happy. With or without the religious, the Republicans are going to be right wing.

They can boycott because they are a single issue group (sex politics) and don't care as much about the rest of the Republican program. Huckabee is their leader and if he runs, the Republican money people might sit out because they are pretty happy with Obama. His primary campaigns died for lack of financing.  


[ Parent ]
I don't see any law that says mulitissue groups can't do this too (0.00 / 0)
accept the one in your head.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
We'll have to agree to disagree (4.00 / 2)
There are very few who are willing to concede the federal government to the Republicans in order to gain control of the Democrats one or two cycles down the road. And doing it in 2000 accomplished less than nothing. I was willing to gamble then, but I doubt that I'd do it again.

I just don't think there's a way to do this on the cheap. If we can't get the word out to more people and if we can't put together a large committed movement, I can't see us accomplishing anything.

For the record, there already exists a considerable disengaged left population which either doesn't vote or votes for minor parties. They are ignored.  


[ Parent ]
that is not what was done in 2000 (0.00 / 0)
In 2000 the majority of greens denied that they had spoiled Gore, and delusionally thought Nader could win.  I was Gore supporter and fought with them so I know this for a fact.  This is a deliberate embrace of spoiler effect as a strategy.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Whatever you call it, that's what it was (4.00 / 2)
I knew that the spoiler effect was a possible outcome. I am willing for Democrats to be spoilers on a case-by-case basis, and to risk being spoilers. For example, maybe the Halter challenge weakened Lincoln. That's OK with me, though it wasn't the goal. (It's probably not true; Lincoln was weak already).

But as a main or sole strategy I can't see it working. When the electorate is something like 10% progressive, 30% hard right, 40% Obamabots, and 20% confused, you don't have much leverage.


[ Parent ]
that is what you say (0.00 / 0)
it doesn't make it the case.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Go ahead with your plan (0.00 / 0)
I have no interest in it, but nobody's stopping you.  

[ Parent ]
I don't think she would have been this bad... (4.00 / 4)
across the board. I think she would have changed the rhetoric...she would have challenged head-on much of the Republican rhetoric...something Obama has not done at all, in fact quite the opposite.  She would not have made this fetish out of bipartisanship. I am not sure she would have escalated the war in Afghanistan to this extent...probably would have taken her time getting out of Iraq...Obama is too. Having said that, she would have been pretty bad as well. For the record I supported Obama taking a risk on the unknown against the known. The fact is we have very limited choices in impacting our  politics in the short term (which is implied in Emerson's  post). The following quote is from Eli at firedoglake. I think it is quite good and summarizes the predicament:

"We like to think that we live in a democracy, but the sad reality is that the US is a democracy in much the same way that the UK is a monarchy. The American voter has become a figurehead who controls very little, if anything."

http://firedoglake.com/2010/07...


[ Parent ]
Obama's passivity bothers me (4.00 / 2)
Clinton doesn't have that. On substance I don't see much difference, though.  

[ Parent ]
women (4.00 / 3)
well, for 51% of the population there would have been SOME difference.  I doubt Clinton would have compromised away women's rights -- and if you're in doubt of that, go listen to her SOS confirmation hearings in which she explained why supporting women's rights and women's right to choose is a necessary part of foreign policy.  Then there's her support for HOLC -- it might have made a difference to homeowners if the mortgage meltdown was alleviated at the homeowner level rather than the bank level.  On foreign policy there was very little difference between the two, but on domestic policy she was to the left of Obama in small ways that would have made some difference now.  As for bipartisanship -- she's the one who named the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy -- so I doubt she holds any naivete around bipartisanship.    

[ Parent ]
And I don't think she'd have sold out Social Security. (4.00 / 4)


[ Parent ]
I think you are quite right here. (4.00 / 2)
When there was a surplus during Clinton's terms, the Republicans thought they could use it to steamroll a very big tax cut. Clinton (he) raised the slogan (yes the slogan) "save social security first" which was effective and which also effectively raised the issues of meaningful priorities. I don't know if Hillary wuld do the same, but I think she would. What is clear is Obama never has.

[ Parent ]
The Differences Appeared Slight (4.00 / 4)
And Clinton's embeddedness in the neo-liberal matrix was clear.  So it seemed a pretty good bet that Obama would govern farther to the left--if only modestly so--particularly once his fantasy of bipartisanship proved illusory.

Little did we know (a) how far to the left of his actual positions Obama was running, and (b) how rigidly doctrinaire he would turn out to be.

In short, I never did buy what Obama was selling, but like Mike Lux, I thought that once he got into office political reality would force him somewhat to the left, simply in order to get anything meaningful done.  Little did I know how much easier he would find it to simply call stuff meaningful when it mostly was not--at least on the scale of ambition & audacity that he articulated beforehand.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Speaking of Hillary (0.00 / 0)
what is she up to NOW?

Shameless plug for my Quick Hit on the subject: Hillary On Taxes.

She's venturing an opinion that low taxes on wealth are the cause of our rotten economy and bolstering that claim with examples both from history and from current international reality.  The countries that do tax wealth heavily such as Brazil, are the ones doing relatively well today.

I'll just tell you frankly that I DON'T know how to fit these remarks into anything I believe about Hillary (or Bill) Clinton.

I don't trust her but this sounds like economic populism to me.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Music ==>> Ears (4.00 / 4)
A superb example of Strategic Thinking. You've weaved the micro into the macro in a way that makes perfect sense, while always staying true to the Big Picture.

There's so much to like in this that I'll just leave it at that. There's a manifesto in there and would love to see it become broadly circulated. (I know that word is pretty dated, but I don't mind it.)


"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


Neocon? (4.00 / 4)
I agree he's a neoliberal but he's not a neocon if that word has any meaning.  My main objection is not to protect Obama from deserved criticism here, but to keep the label of neoconservative as soiled and contemptible as possible.  If Obama is a neocon, a lot of people are neocons and it just becomes a description of the general Washington foreign policy consensus.  Neocons are much worse even than that.  There's a level of preposterous mendacity and viciousness, nay malice in the neocons that I don't detect in Obama.  

this is a good point though (4.00 / 3)

(Cynicism works for the Republicans; it's neither neutral nor "transgressive".)

Cynicism breeds "take what you can and fuck the rest" thinking, which of course the Republicans present a menu of such policies every election.  At least get that $50 tax cut in your hands now.  Your kids won't go to college, but if you're convinced everything is going to hell anyway, $50 is better than nothing.


[ Parent ]
I tend to think of neo-cons are merely jacobin neo-libs. (4.00 / 4)
If that's any help. In any case, they are both two sides of the same ideological coin, the focus of which is on the prefix "neo." They are both anti-democratic, anti-human rights, anti-constitution, anti-liberal, corporatist crony-capitalists. They both share the Friedman/Rand economic ideology. They were both a reaction to communism, with the neo-cons being largely former Trotskyites and Stalinists...

"Neo" refers to the way in which they seek to change the relation between citizen and state to one of "subject to the state." This is why they both support the misadventure in imperial overreach. This is why they both support the Patriot Act, mass surveillance. kidnapping, torture and extra-judicial murder and so on. This is why they can join hands and sing Kumbayaa every time the shredder receives another piece of the Bill of Rights.

This is also why the Obama foreign policy is largely neo-con. These are two labels which have more in common than not. They are very much fellow travelers, in most senses of the word.

So they are both despicable.


"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
hmm (4.00 / 4)
Maybe the difference is more in how we think of neoliberals.  My take on them is more of the Yglesias/Nate Silver sort who think government should at least build roads, educate children and provide public goods like vaccination or broadcast frequency regulation, but shouldn't do much active redistribution, and should be as small as possible with as many functions farmed out to the private sector as possible.

They're not as crazy as the Randroids or Milton Friedman set because at least neoliberals acknowledge the possibility of such things as market failures and essential government services, but they still put far too much faith in markets and choose them as the default solution to things.

I don't find them as bad as neocons because for one thing they're a lot more open about what they advocate, and seem to sincerely believe in what they're saying, even if they're wrong that isn't like neocons where you really can't sort out between the crazy, stupid, lying and plain old evil.  

Tom Friedman did just occur to me as a great example of a neoliberal who possibly qualifies as a neocon, so I can see there being some overlap.  Your point about their views on the relation to the state is an interesting one and might be their shared dynamic.

But overlap they might, they are distinct sets and I'm not ready to throw Yglesias on the same pile as Kristol.  


[ Parent ]
After a long time of watching the two, I think the main difference (0.00 / 0)
between neoliberalism and neoconservatism is purely cultural. The neolibs are far more internationalist, and their economic libertarianism extends to the cultural politics of the day. The neocons may dream of wars far away, but in their gut their nationalists to a fault, and regardless of what their personal views on cultural issues are, they take conservative positions and dress them up in traditional language.

In terms of economic belief, there really isn't much daylight...

...which is underlined by the fact that you had to cite "vaccinations" as something neoliberals might approve of the government doing itself.

They are really just two different subcultures among the establishment.


[ Parent ]
We do think differently about them. (4.00 / 2)
Silver I'm not sure about, but Yglesias is almost certainly neo-lib. His take on education is pure neo-lib. Ditto for econ and to some extent foreign policy.

But I would classify him not as a doctrinaire neo-lib but rather a somewhat moderate neo. Capt. Obvious (Tommy Friedman), is more extreme in his utter disregard for human beings that aren't rich. But they are both still neo-libs on a doctrinal level. Both Clintons are also neo-libs, as are the rest of the leadership, including Nancy Pelosi.

But that doesn't mean they're necessarily all identical. When push comes to shove, their priorities are the same. They only vary on a stylistic level.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Actually, I think neocons are closer to Girondins than Jacobins (0.00 / 0)
It was the Girondins, after all, who were the hawks.

[ Parent ]
Hmm. Well, they were considered moderates at the time. (4.00 / 1)
They were kind of stuck in the middle of the revolution, since they possessed legislative offices and were ultimately deposed from any power. They also opposed the September massacres, which were fomented largely by the jacobins. They didn't like a lot of the extremism and violence.

I use the jacobins because they possessed two important qualities the neo-cons also have: 1) a lust for extreme violence, coupled with, 2) a genuine hubris that made them quite successful for a time. Successful, that is, until they were shown to the guillotine themselves, when other groups realized just how dangerous they were.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Girondins were moderates at home but espoused a (0.00 / 0)
militant foreign policy. The Jacobins waged war better, but the wars were truly foisted upon them. I know you were using "jacobins" as a general adjectives.

[ Parent ]
Isn't the DC foreign policy consensus neocon by now? (4.00 / 2)
On the Iraq War, the Afghan war, Gaza, and Iran Obama isn't far from the neocons.

He isn't as adventurist as the neocons of 2003, but a lot of them are lying low themselves at the moment. It's not a good time for proposing new adventures, but even so, war with Iran is being talked about.

I'm not sure whether the neocons really expected anything better than what we got in Iraq and Afghanistan. They may just have been willing to say anything in order to get the war started, in the secure knowledge that once we were in we'd stay in ofrever.  


[ Parent ]
there's the rub (4.00 / 4)
The defining feature of neocons, as I understand them, is the shameless willingness, even eagerness to lie to the public in service of their schemes.  They're ideological used car salesmen.  It's difficult to even find a neocon who admits he is a neocon.

It all comes back to that infamous Irving Kristol quote:


There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn't work.

They believe they're the adults who rule us children by noble lies for our own good.  It's a whole different kind of despicable than the kind of despicable that we have seen from the Obama administration.  


[ Parent ]
Kristol is a moron (4.00 / 2)
As a neocon he shouldn't have said that. He was giving the general public inappropriate information.

Young Kristol and young Podhoretz (and probably young Bellow) contribute to my relative lack of respect for the "New York Intellectuals" of the 1950s. They really seem like a bunch of second-raters.  


[ Parent ]
Despicable he? (4.00 / 1)
If you look more closely at what President Obama says in the context of what he does, I'm not sure that this is true. IMO, he has a magisterial streak in him a yard wide.

[ Parent ]
I believe it does describe (0.00 / 0)
the entire washington foreign policy consensus!  Most all support the war, and they need to go.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Should not a bona fide progressive movement within the DP require reciprocity of support from elected candidates? (0.00 / 0)
Why don't so-called progressive Democrats in Congress help build up the PDA, or other Democrat-leaning progressive groups? Why not require candidates who want support from progressives to return the favor by joining rallies after they're elected?

I suggested that here and here.

If a candidate refuses to sign a written pledge that they will help build up some progressive group, by attending X rallies per year, then why take that candidate seriously? They may indeed have progressive inclinations, individually, but they probably don't really care all that much about the larger picture. If they did, they would be eager to build up a progressive movement.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


Incrementally changing WHAT? (0.00 / 0)
I think incremental change can work, but only if the right thing is being changed.  Imagine you are on a ship and want to go further to the left:

1) Change the angle of a ship's rudder just a bit to the left and you'll see huge change in direction over time.  

2) Steer the ship a degree to the left, but keep the rudder straight after the course change.  This will make a smaller change over time, but still make a large difference.  

3) Rearranging the deck chairs to point a bit to the left accomplishes nothing of importance, even if the view is nicer for a few days.

So where is our rudder?  Is it the elites of the Democratic Party?  Is it progressive media, framing and infrastructure?  

Where do we already have leverage we can exploit and where can we add leverage?


The unions represent the demographic (0.00 / 0)
of which you speak.   Can we get the unions to dump the Democrats on their ass?  

Single issue voters are also usually single issue people.  They are too busy with their own cause to help another cause; and if their cause wins, they tend to leave because they already did their share.


The unions aren't enough people any more (4.00 / 3)
They also usually have fairly specific, limited demands. But majoritarian politics would have to include labor (unionized or not) as a key component.  

[ Parent ]
Depends on where you are talking about (4.00 / 1)
There are locales where unions make broad progressive demands, take a more social movement approach, and are willing both to find their own candidates and make them, and take out people who oppose them.  The LA County Board is a great example.  

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
I don't think the world can wait for either yours or Chris's approach (4.00 / 1)
Nader proved 4% is enough to spoil, since it is the margin of error in many races, and I favor doing that on a regular bases to bad dems.   Just make them scared they will lose us.  The greens are a superior way to spoil than kos's non voting stategy since the demmies can't pretend the lost because they are too wibwal!

My blog  

I'm not sure about any approach (4.00 / 2)
Writing my piece did not make me more optimistic. My strategy requires a lot of very, very committed people working together in a way that they haven't in recent decades.

[ Parent ]
forcing them to choose between winning and losing won't take (4.00 / 1)
as long.  It just requires spine! Most people don't have time for your level of committment.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
I don't see a spoiler strategy accomplishing anything (4.00 / 1)
Without a lot of committed people I don't think that there's any hope. The machine now runs automatically without any voluntary input, and it will be hard to stop. In various ways, whether from genuine acceptance, defeatism, laziness, or ignorance, most people seem not to be resisting.  

[ Parent ]
Sure it will accomplish alot (0.00 / 0)
if they know they will lose the margin of error by being pricks, they'll cut it out!

My blog  

[ Parent ]
You can win a small issue that way (4.00 / 2)
You can't get someone to change their whole domestic and foreign policy.

[ Parent ]
if it is those issues that are losing (0.00 / 0)
it sure as heck will.  Over the coarse of two are three terms they change the type of people they nominate to satisfy public tastes.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Sorry, no (4.00 / 4)
In other diaries I've talked about the way that party leaders are willing to accept defeat rather than give up control of the party. (For example, Democratic leaders sabotaged Bryan every time he ran, and they sabotaged McGovern). All the party decision makers have other interests than just winning elections. Almost all of them get paid one way or the other.

You need positive input into the party. Boycotting alone won't do it.


[ Parent ]
come on (0.00 / 0)
we're talking them never having control again if they keep it up.  They change or make room for a new party!  It is that simple.  They haven't been presented with such starkness since the republican replaced the whigs.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
What are the chances that a wrecking group will stay united, active, and effective for even ten years? (4.00 / 2)
Look what happened to the Greens, or as far as that goes, the Libertarians. The alternative will always be a Republican who will almost always be worse than the Democrat. The Republicans aren't standing still while we figure out what to do.

You're basically saying "Do Gore-Bush-Nader over and over again", and that idea appeals to almost no one.  


[ Parent ]
The beauty of being a wrecker is that it embraces rather than fights (0.00 / 0)
chaos.  The only unity involved is on election day!

My blog  

[ Parent ]
This argument has been greatly discredited (0.00 / 0)
We can thank Obama for that. Would McCain really have been significantly worse?

In any event, a more interesting debate between you and Dameocrat would be one with a finer, and I would say, much more clever, granularity.

Meaning: What are the pros and cons of targetting the worst 5% of Democratic Congress critters for electoral elimination? The worst 10%? Your position makes sense if the subject of disputation is a sort of open-ended, uncontrolled, ill-conceived "Throw any Democrat under the bus who is not progressive" strategy.

But what, exactly, is wrong with doing a stepped down version of what the "pros" do, that you have written about? The pros may throw any and all Democrats under the bus who threaten their control. As progressives don't have their level of resources, nor the same cost-benefit factors, they can't imitate that strategy, exactly. But what, pray tell, is the problem with imitating it on a smaller scale? Unlike the "pros", the differences would be 1) I'd be quite upfront and just tell people to actively vote for the Republican to double the electoral punishment that the progressives are doling out and 2) tell people that they need to adopt a long-term strategy, and keep repeating this process of throwing Democrats under the bus. Again, not ALL of them, just the X% who are working against their interests, anyway. (With the exact value of X hopefully chosen by a political game theorist who knows what he's doing.)

I think most all people who read this blog are not interested in throwing ALL Democrats who are not progressive under the bus, in each and every election. However, at least this reader finds it both amazing and de-moralizing that progressives would not use every weapon available to them.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Oops (0.00 / 0)
"Again, not ALL of them, just the X% who are working against their interests, anyway."

should have been

"Again, not ALL of them, just the X% who are most working against their interests, anyway."

(A more clever strategy would also take into account the positions of the Republican opponent, as well as the demographics of the district or state.)

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Metamars, I'm thinking of the Club for G rowth approach (4.00 / 1)
They defeat one or two moderate incumbents every cycle, and by doing that they terrify the rest. I'm pretty sure that Grassley and Snow were told by the CFG that if they worked with Obama on healthcare they'd be destroyed.

[ Parent ]
"I think most all people who read this blog are not interested in throwing ALL Democrats who are not progressive under the bus, in each and every election." (4.00 / 1)
Why not? If the majority of the Democrats are diametrically opposed to progressive policies and even carrying out what they purport to be their platform (claiming to defend women's right to choose while clinging to Hyde, claiming to oppose the war while extending it, having a White House unabashedly demeaning the role of labor in society), why on Earth should those bad actors be preserved?  During the Bush years it was argued that Democrats would do things very differently- in the past year and a half that has been proven to be a flat-out lie.

People around here throw around the phrase "purity test" pejoratively but I'd argue that in a country where you have two very conservative parties to choose from, "pure" candidates are not only desirable, they're desperately needed.  


[ Parent ]
I think you know why (0.00 / 0)
Because they're AFRAID. Afraid that this will backfire, and lead to massive Republican gains. Afraid that will then lead to them being demonized by other Dem-leaners. Some of the "throw them under the bus" progressives will then also become afraid, and come the next election, they will abandon the strategy. If enough abandon the strategy, then the losses endured by the Dems will be seen to be for nought.

The strategy I propose is not really radical*, though it can become more radical as the progressives grow as a voting bloc and learn to throw their weight around. (Essentially, X will get larger with subsequent election cycles.)

This consideration also shows why you have to pick "X" (as in X%) partly considering psychological factors. I'm not a game theorist, but I think if I was, I'd want to do some research and ask prospective voters of the "throw X% of Dems under the bus" strategy whether they are willing to persevere in their strategy through subsequent elections cycles, even if they are demonized by other Dems.

You're assumption that X should be 100 may reflect a belief that progressives would embrace a strategy where the cure becomes perceived to be worse than the disease, indefinitely. I don't think that's realistic, at all. However, rather than quibble about dueling hypothetical scenarios, I have a much better idea. Why not simply ask progressive voters what value of X they would support through multiple election cycles, no matter how much of a howl the other Dems raised?

* As a mathematician might say "you can pick X as small as you please", though if it's too small, that is also bad, as people will perceive it as having to take too long a period of time to work.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Don't vote for the republican (4.00 / 1)
that justifies a move the right on the part of the remaining centrist.  Voting green tells them they are too damned conservative.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
The main point is to use the vote to accomplish your main end (0.00 / 0)
If the voting bloc decides to throw a Democrat under the bus, they should do their utmost to accomplish that goal. In the above scenario, if the race is close between R's and D's, then 98 out of 100 times (say), that will mean throwing the race to a Republican. A vote for a 3rd party will mean that you merely subtract 1 from the D column, but don't alter the R column. Such a vote will only have 'half' of the effect of voting for the R. Doing so means, under these circumstances, risking failing in your strategy.

If such a progressive Democratic voting bloc could determine, ahead of time, that regardless of how he/she voted, the likely result will be unaffected (either the D or R wins), then it's fine to vote for the 3rd party. But if a voting bloc decides to throw a Democrat that they don't respect under the bus, they should vote to make sure that that happens. In a close race, that means voting for the Republican.

What an optimal strategy for a 3rd party that is trying to get going is harder to figure out. It's not like political game theory is my field, either. However, I'll guess that you'd want to form a voting bloc that will vote with progressive Democrats 9 out of 10 times (meaning, voting for the Democrat), but demand, in return, that progressive Democrats support your Green candidate instead of the Democrat in the X districts where you have built up the Green party the most, relative to progressive Democrats. (Which, I assume in this example, will be only in about 1/10th the districts where progressive Democrats get their way). If the progressive Democrats don't respect your demand, you'd then retaliate by throwing one of the 9 progressive Democrats that they otherwise would have supported, under the bus. (Note that I'm assuming that the progressive Democrats vote as a coherent, disciplined voting bloc across state and district lines. )

The Green-leaning progressive voting bloc would have to keep their demands in line with their numbers, if they want to be taken seriously.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
A similar argument for Greens voting for R's holds (0.00 / 0)
In a close race, if the Greens are targeting a progressive Dem in a general election, 98 out of 100 times that means that they should vote for the Republican.

What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander...

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
I think alot of them just don't have the time or money (4.00 / 1)
to be party activists!  It is that simple!  kossack meets are allways in cities too far away and I can't afford the travel or hotel bills nor the time off.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Priorities (4.00 / 2)
People would have to put politics higher on their priority list. People tend to do politics with their spare time and pocket change.

That's the nagging part. Without a lot of committed people, I don't think there's any hope. Some people have more time than money, and some more money than time, and some don't have either.

I'm not pointing the finger at single mothers, people working two jobs, people below the poverty line, people with several young children, etc. But even in those groups I've known people who could find time. (Cutting into the TV would free up a lot of time for a lot of people.)


[ Parent ]
well if it requires all this committment that you know isn't there (0.00 / 0)
why bring it up.  My strategy only requires a minority to make changes, and they don't have to work ten times as hard as the elites to do things.  They simply vote third party in enough numbers to spoil conservadems.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
I don't think a spoiler approach by itself will produce good results (4.00 / 1)
You have to be uncompromising on basic policies and be for things that are important. And you have to be willing to let the Democratic Party fail if they will not support basic progressive policies. But I think it becomes problematic if you go into  elections with the intention of making them fail. Withhold support until they prove progressive (not promise to be), and focus on our basic vision and our answer to pressing problems. Whatever you do, you will be CALLED a spoiler unless you do what they want. But the charge can be proved false, if you make clear the basis on which Democrats forfeited our support.

[ Parent ]
We also need to disavow the possibility of a "quick" victory (4.00 / 3)
The progressive ascendancy is going to have to take just as long the conservative ascendancy took. We just don't have the infrastructure to pull it off any time soon.

How do we fix it?

We have to start organizing on a local level. Movement conservatives cared deeply about very local elections.  School boards, county/city councils, state legislatures, etc. all need to be priorities. Starting locally has three major advantages, we build a progressive bench, we build a progressive infrastructure that derives power from the local community not from the top down, and last but not least we make our communities better places.

This isn't to say that we also don't fight on the national/state-wide stage, but that deep down we are in this for the long-haul, building not just for a victory in 4-8 years but a more lasting victory in 15-25 years down the line.

Conservatives have been getting their hands on to the levers of power for 35 plus years now.  We can't delude ourselves into thinking that we can just take back the country in one or two election cycles.    


I propose concentrating on the Midwest (0.00 / 0)
The political system favors groups with geographic bases of support.  The Midwest has historically been fertile ground for progressive populist politics.  If there is a difference, favor Midwestern cultural sensitivities over those of the Northeast or the West Coast.

B uilding a populist political base in the Midwest, geographically isolated from elites on either coast, may work.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


That makes sense (0.00 / 0)
People like Feingold, Harkin, and Wellstone are/were part way there.  

[ Parent ]
Some Quick Thoughts (4.00 / 1)
First, thank you John for another great post. Your summary of the history of the Democratic party has become even more concise. Enough to warrant debate as you've gotten with all your posts.

I'd make these fairly quick points:

1. As Paul Rosenberg has pointed out awhile back, the General Social Survey (?) proves that for decades the American public has wanted most or all of the progressive agenda while rejecting most or all of the Republican agenda. At the least, there is an inherent sympathy between the average American and the goals of progressives. Republicans have to rely on fear to win. Progressive Democrats have only to find their voice, it would seem.

2. As I think Paul and others are getting at, single issue groups can be positive if they act like affiliates and cross selling in the business world. They get their message out but they also get out your message, directly and indirectly.

3. The door to door contact might be less of a challenge than you think given the results of Howard Dean's 50 state strategy. He proved that money and time and passion could make a huge difference. It should be the model and/or inspiration for any progressive takeover of the state and national Democratic parties. It is do-able.

4. Notice anything about the differences between the wealthy and, say, people who make less than $500,000 a year? The latter have jobs that, if they lose them, they likely have little or no money to tide them over. Fat cat CEOs have golden parachutes. Trust fund babies have Mommy or Daddy's money. The other 99% of us work for a living and have little or no job security. A progressive Democratic platform built around the needs of working people would be a guaranteed success across all incomes and groups in this country. You would not attract everyone, of course, but you would build a positive brand among far more voters than a single group message or the typical Democratic messages. I can't find the Quick Hit link now, but one of the union presidents recently gave a brilliant speech that compared illegal immigrants to the Irish, Italians, and Poles that immigrated to the US and how they were exploited by businesses then and now. That's precisely the kind of connections that progressives should make as they court voters and politicians to represent our interests. Almost everybody works in this country. Yet neither of the political parties explicitly acts on our behalf in any meaningful way. A focus on working people also would help define the difference between the wealthy and everyone else; today many people think making $200k/year is wealthy. It's not. Wealthy is somewhere north of $5 million in a year.

5. In terms of party models, here in NY we have the Working Family Party (if I have the name right!) that explicitly pushes policies that benefit working people and their families. Like the 50 state strategy, this also would be a good model and/or inspiration.

I, too, would like to see your ideas and others debated and discussed into something more actionable. For example, I think we should take over state Democratic parties as the Republicans did in the 1980s, starting with the states most amenable to a takeover and working from there. At the least, it would be a great way to work out progressive messages, get exposure, and all the rest.


The working families party endorsed the candidacies of (0.00 / 0)
Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer and Barak Obama.  All war supporters.  They also ensorsed the health care bailout bill.  They aren't progressive at all and do not represent a replacement for the green party who actually have different political positions from mainstream dems.  The wfp cross endorses conservadem candidates and their ideas.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
WFP unfortunately is currently engaged in a lot of power brokering (0.00 / 0)
much of which doesn't lend itself to supporting exclusively progressive candidates

they've done some muscling of conserva-dems in a few primaries but then they turn around and pool their votes with Schumer et al (to consolidate power)- from what I understand the WFP leadership are guilty of Bowers-ish abandonment of "radical" thinking (i.e. opposing bad Democrats in the general election)

Sirota (remember when he used to post here?) has a whole chapter on WFP in "the Uprising", I highly recommend checking it out


[ Parent ]
What does it mean? (4.00 / 1)
As Paul Rosenberg has pointed out awhile back, the General Social Survey (?) proves that for decades the American public has wanted most or all of the progressive agenda while rejecting most or all of the Republican agenda.

At crunch time, either voting for Congressmen or voting for President, that doesn't come through. I have no real explanation. Many voters are misinformed, and many voters prioritize Republican social issues over everything else, and the Republicans gain votes on various sorts of fear that override "issues", and the Republican machine is more efficient, and people vote for personalities.

It does represent a potential, but it involves, first, a stronger and more believable Democratic committment to this issues, second, much more and better outreach and public education, and third, knocking down some of the Republican cliches like "low taxes" and "get the government off my back".  


[ Parent ]
I would say we must de-emphasize elections and (0.00 / 0)
emphasize organizing outside of the electoral focus. At present, almost all the time we lose (whether our candidate wins or loses). At present, we seem better off trying to pull together the disparate progressive groups and left unions into a progressive movement as such. Vote as best you can but keep the focus (for now) on the organizing outside of elections, outside of the Democratic Party. Sorry for repeating...I have been on this for a while now.

[ Parent ]
A Failure to Contest/Compete (0.00 / 0)
I agree John that some significant number of voters vote against their innate preferences, as measured by the GSS. I would say, over the past three decades at least, it is mostly due to the failure of Democrats to offer an alternative to Republican ideas. Voters have not seen and heard consistent progressive messages and policies from the Democratic party. And I don't mean the Democratic party has to become progressive. Only that the party has to adopt progressive words and policies at key moments to keep the country moving and to survive over time. Part of the frustration with Obama is that he correctly tapped into the country's need for progressive messages in 2008 (after decades if conservatism) but Obama then exclusively went for conservative policies. If the media more accurately reported this disconnect between rhetoric and policy, discontent might be even higher.

Instead for decades the Democratic party has played "me too!" with the Republicans and their policies. People vote for the real thing when there is no alternative. Add in Republican fear mongering and you can account for most of the reasons people have voted against their interests, especially as workers who don't have much if they lose their job or their home equity and/or 401k go south because of preventable depradations by Wall Street and other elites.

As to points about the candidates pushed by the Working Family Pary, I agree in practice they are less than perfect, even destructive. My point simply was that they're a good example of how a local party can work within one state, possibly nearby states, to represent local interests and augment a national party. I did not mean progressives should follow their policies. Only that we also should think in terms of activating or creating local parties and possibly regional parties as a way to connect with voters, find and groom progressive politicians, try out and refine progressive messages, wave the progressive flag at the local level where it has a personal impact on voters, and all the rest. Sorry I was unclear.


[ Parent ]
There's another explanation . . . (0.00 / 0)
that majorities do in fact vote for more progressive candidates, in alignment with their positions on the issues. And then 1) the candidates they believe support their favored approach don't implement it, and 2) the unrepresentative nature of our system prevents things from happening even when a majority of representatives want change.

In other words, why should we be surprised that 60% of the public can't get what they want when 55% of U.S. Senators can't get what they want, either?

Democracy in America suffers from multi-system failure.  


[ Parent ]
Agree & Disagree, and what we really need (4.00 / 3)
In light of a beautiful weekend here in the PACNW, I would like to very briefly touch on several points:

AGREE: with your point (that every one here seems to have missed) that if Obama and his handlers had their way, the progressive-populist wing of the Democratic party would have been completely neutered, and the last vestiges of the New Deal itself would be legislated out of existence. Thank God for Republican instransigence! In one of history's ironies, it is their stonewalling that has so far saved Social Security and Medicare from the hands of the New Democrats.

DISAGREE: That "we're only 10% of the population". If that were true, then why does polling on progressive-populist positions consistently show either favorable majorities, or strong minority support? Besides, many of the underlying values of the Left run in threads across a patchwork quilt of subcultures...there are people out there who would have common cause with us...

EMPHATICALLY AGREE: Which brings me to your post mid-thread on the need to stop trying to paste together a weak, temporary coalition based on identity politics and single issue politics, and instead build a new majority based on universal themes. An excellent write-up! I could write my own book on this, but in short my belief is that 1)the 60s and 70s, and what we thought in terms of "cultural issues" during that era, have all but run their course, 2) the language that that was used in those days to promote civil rights & civil liberties started out populist but switched to libertarian, which created a frame that was then appropriated to steadily prune the social democratic infrastructure of the New Deal/Great Society down to the nub, and 3)that at this point neither the issues nor language of that era really resonate anymore with the general public. It was an era we had to go through as a country, with the exception of gay rights most of that work is complete, and this presents a real opportunity for us to build majorities that A) have a fairly coherent philosophy, and B) appeal to ever larger numbers of people on the patchwork quilt.

So if this is such an opportunity, why haven't we reaped the benefits?

I would submit that
1)on the Left vs. Right level: the conservative message machine still dominates,

2)  on the intra-Dem fight: while I believe that the great majority of the base sees themselves as the Democratic wing of the Democratic party, and is ready to throw out the "DLC Dems"...the problem is that everyone else's politician is the "DLC Dem". In other words, the base is roughly in agreement on where the party needs to go, but each incumbent has built up such a strong brand during their many years in office, that the base rarely makes the connection between the state of the national party, and their representative in their district. I can't overstress this...it's amazing to listen to people share the same frustrations we do here, hear them demand that we go after the "Republicrats", and then watch them go out and happily vote for some multi-decade incumbent whose little known voting record is often somewhere to the right of the old Rockefeller Republicans.

3) also on the intra-Dem fight: progressive-populists don't have a national leader or leaders. Nader and Dean were defeated, and the bet on Obama went sour. All it will take is a handful of leaders to step forward and definitively take on the mantle of the movement, and this whole thing could catch fire overnight. Now I don't mean to say that some god-like figure will come in and save the day, while we all watch it happen on the evening news. Not at all! I'm just pointing out that every movement has to have a vehicle, it has to have people who are in positions of power, who are able to deliver. Otherwise it's likely to be a "tree in the forest". Remember how the movement wasn't even acknowledged until Dean came along? While his campaign was defeated, it temporarily became a vehicle that forced the rest of the candidates to radically alter their pitch, not only in '04, but in '08 as well.

Most successful revolutions that I am aware of were amply aided by significant sections of the establishment that became "traitors to their own class" in the minds of their contemporaries. That's why-populist that I am-I focus not on the opinion of the man in the street, but what might be happening amongst leaders in academia, industry, even the biz blogs and the broader educated/consulting class. Because if pieces of the professional class start demanding progressive-populist political leadership, some in the political class will respond.

Stay positive! Things could change practically overnight...



Those who oppose Obama from the left are 10% (4.00 / 1)
If that were true, then why does polling on progressive-populist positions consistently show either favorable majorities, or strong minority support?

As I said above, I don't know the answer to this one, but Democrats haven't succeeded in cashing this one out since 1964.  


[ Parent ]
If so that is an enormous number. (0.00 / 0)
A 10% minority is enormous. We are vocal and intelligent. We can influence another 10% strongly. That is a number that can impact politics in the US and even elections...if we don't piss it away supporting the usual suspects who treat our serious concerns and needs in the usual ways.

[ Parent ]
That was my second point (4.00 / 1)
Progressives don't seem very well mobilized, very well organized, or very energetic. As I said, if 5 million people (about 4% of those who voted for President in 2008) each gave $100 each per year (2 or 3 days of work at minimum wage), or put in a comparable amount of time, we'd be a powerful force.

There are very poor people who give $100 / year to their churches or to various charities. But the tendency (fostered by antidemocratic leaders) is for political involvement to be limited to showing up to vote.  


[ Parent ]
The Alan Graysons of the World (4.00 / 1)
To focus on your point about progressive leaders like Dean. One of the great things about Open Left and other communities is that truly progressive politicians have been surfaced, supported, and even elected. And at key moments in national debates they've been heard from. For example, Alan Grayson's accurate portrayal of the Republican plan for health insurance reform.

This piece of the puzzle is fairly healthy and, over time, should deliver a solid group of progressive leaders, not just one great man or woman. Grayson, in particular, is an interesting model because he should be Republican given his history and education. He is a traitor to his class, as you put it. Yet he is able to mirror the public mood with words that force the media to pay attention.

As to what has made voters vote against their interests, I've noted some reasons right above in response to John's comment. For me, it's mostly the failure of the Democratic party to act in progressive ways over the past decade in response to the worst Republican policies, the failure to offer a viable alternative that resonates. Instead, the Dems have played "me too" and appear as bought as the Republicans. Who would vote for that option? Instead they vote for the local multi-decade pol with the mostly played down voting record.


[ Parent ]
Trailer trash? (4.00 / 2)
Wow.  Just wow.  I don't even know how to discuss politics with someone who calls a large group of people in this country trash, although it does explain why so much of the Democratic Party and its "activists" seem to consider them disposable.

Or maybe you're just upset that the "trailer trash" and "hillbillies" managed to at least suss out that Obama - who ran to the right of every other Democrat in the 2008 primary on economic issues - didn't have their interests at heart while so many of the brilliant "wonks" who make up progressive blogs hailed him as some sort of liberal savior who would change politics forever (even as he ran on an economic platform of tax cuts, praised Reagan, and got caught lying about NAFTA (remember Goolsbee going to reassure the Canadians?)).   Yet, a lot of them - despite being, obviously racist for failing to love Obama as much as the "progressives" - still turned up and voted for him in November.  And they are now are being predictably crushed (by the guy who whipped for TARP, but had no time for HOLC) under his anti-union, pro-Wall Street, neoliberal economic policies.  

And here you are, still calling them trash?  

Next, no doubt, will be a post wondering why so many working class and poor Americans think progressives and Democrats are elitists.  

Yes, it is a wonder.


You're new around here. (4.00 / 6)
Emerson is FOR us. It's the wonks who see us as "trash" he is criticizing when he uses that word. Read some more of his work if you didn't pick that up from this piece.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Like Sadie said (4.00 / 3)
One of my main points all along (over the past year) has been that Democrats tend to be wonky types who write off uncool, boring white people as hopeless. It's a double problem. First, Democrats assume that teabaggers are poor illiterate whites, which they are not; they're more prosperous than average and more educated than average. Second. Democrats tend to be invested in their wonk superiority and to write of - poor whites as hopeless. - not only poor whites, but moderately successful whites who are sort of tacky and have bad taste.  

[ Parent ]
Until we hurt them, they'll always despise us. (0.00 / 0)
To me this is the summmary of the progressive movement.  

The only real goal is to hurt.  The only way accomplishment can occur if someone has been hurt.


http://transgendermom.blogspot....


cool story (4.00 / 1)
enjoy your corporate government

[ Parent ]
You're a moron, transgender mom (4.00 / 2)
We're in a highly competitive situation and we're getting whipped. We'll keep on getting whipped until we hit back. If you can't figure that out, go away.

[ Parent ]
Many good points, one little problem (4.00 / 1)
Which you kind of addressed, though perhaps it need re-emphaizing: in the end it be all about money, and progressives have way too little of it. You suggested each progressive give $100. - that'd be a start, but even were that to happen it' still not enough.  Because even $.5B does not buy enough clout nowadays, as sad as it is.

An example: I just read that Robert kagan, neocon supreme, has accepted a job at the Brookline Institution. Which once upon a time was more progressive in outlook, but not any longer, and not for quite a while, and getting worse by the day. Just how much will Kagan be paid, I wonder - and how does that compare to the pay of "our" thinkers?

And, come to think of it - anyone can point to a progressive Think Tank? one with actual money behind it and paid representatives to flood the CSPANs of this country? where is the progressive equivalent of just one Haim Saban? and don't say Soros - who has his own pet issues and agendas and does not seem to have the courage and the single issue dedication of Saban anyways. And don't say Bill Gates who also has pitched his tent somewhat rather askew to what progressives may really want. Go through all the wealthy names you know and at the end, there'll be just a motley crew of not-always-wealthy-enough Hollywood types, who cannot be relied upon for either consistency or stamina.

So there it is - the crux of the matter is that you Emerson, or Paul Rosenberg or any of the other excellent commenters here - and elsewhere on the left - are not, in fact, paid particularly well to do what you do. Just imagine what could be done were it otherwise.

And without wealth funding political PACs and media outreach, all progressives got is masses producing good noise. Unfortunately, we  have not been able to turn out enough of these either - nothing close to the tea partites. So where do we go from here is my  question.

Though everything else you suggest - creating majorities, focusing donations, etc are all good. To end on a somewhat more positive note,  perhaps if a real movement could be put together that has some mojo behind it and does not degenerate into issue bickering ( DK- style), there would be some wealthy (ie, really wealthy) who'd care to join in. It's just that wealth likes winners - by definition, almost - and progressives have not been able to project winning hands in ways that count. But far be it from me to throw cold water on action plans as some here seem to do. I can only hope that Bowers and Lux etc listen with care.

Where do I send my $100.?


You need a combination of time and money (4.00 / 3)
I also assume, maybe wrongly,  that it's cheaper to tell the truth than it is to fool people.  

[ Parent ]
Wealth and the things it buys are a substitute (4.00 / 3)
for personal commitment and engagement. That isn't to say that one can run a movement without any money - it is to say that their wealth advantage is more powerful if we choose to contest them on their grounds, and many powerful things cannot be bought.

There are numerous examples in history where people used person-to-person contact, especially targeting those politically disengaged people you are talking about, to win big. Each time, political observers were shocked and promptly forgot the lesson.

In order for that to work, you need to be able to talk to people in an non-hierarchical way that is foreign to the wonk demographic, as you have put it. It is personally risky, and involves going out of your comfort zone to coax others out of their comfort zone.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Exactly, David (4.00 / 2)
I find myself reluctant to be forward with my politics in unfamiliar situations just because I don't want to get in a shouting match. Even in some familiar situations -- there are people I know through family and neighborhood who are hard core wingers.

[ Parent ]
The best advice I've heard (4.00 / 2)
from organizers both famous and not, is to begin by telling our story. How did you become interested in an issue? What personal connections made it real?  How did you get involved in the cause?  

I think telling someone 'here's how I got here' suggests it could have been otherwise, which makes it far less threatening than just saying 'this is what I believe' which conveys a judgmental finality (whether intended or not).

Obviously, there is no magic bullet - a hard core winger is unlikely to be willing to listen. But there are plenty of people that sound like that, who if you talk to them a while you see that such rhetoric doesn't really get at their true values. It may well be a product of only hearing one side, or of unfocused (and righteous) anger that they don't have the words to make sense of just yet.  

I tend to think it's easier to get through to those people than to neoliberal Democrats, who on the surface may seem more conducive allies.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
Money IS speech, the ONLY speech (4.00 / 2)
At least that's the principle that we've had relentlessly beaten into us by the economic and political changes set in motion initially by the Bretton Woods agreement, and confirmed most recently in the atrocities of the G-20 meeting last month in Toronto.

A complicated subject this, I realize, but here's a little koan-like conundrum to meditate on: We've got the Internet now, but we've also got Citizens United v. Federal Elections Commission. Which of the two is likely to have more influence over our political future?


[ Parent ]
Well, I wish I could be optimistic (4.00 / 1)
about internet vs corporate. But you just know that when corporate will feel really threatened by internet, that's exactly what they'll try to "regulate".

[ Parent ]
Everything you say sounds great (0.00 / 0)
but it is a bit naive to asssume that person-to-person contact is enough to make up for lack of enough bully pulpits. Even were that effective, it'd take way too long to create an avalanche.

The problem is that you are asking for the kind of commitment that relatively few are willing to make. The rest will continue to sit in front of the boob tube. And I suspect we'll need to reach some of the zombies to get real awakening. That's where the money is needed - to get those few more millions that you'll never be able to reach with mere truth and sincerity.  


[ Parent ]
You are essentially adopting the position (4.00 / 2)
of elite political consultants - money and bid media are all powerful. Is it naive to suggest that they may be self-interested in their counsel?

Beyond that, I'm not positing some as yet unseen utopia - merely drawing on history.  It has worked before and can work again.  See Randy Shaw and Marshall Ganz. Hard work - yes. Impossible - no.

As for whether people would rather "it in front of the boob tube," I'm not sure what your basis for this claim is. But what I am suggesting has proven to work, yet has rarely been done on large scale (at least recently). But naysayers said the same thing you are saying here in response to the labor movement of the 30s, the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, and the Farmers Movement and on and on.  History shows a big barrier is people thinking it cannot happen.  

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
What is the alternative? (4.00 / 2)
As I said elsewhere, working out my plan did not make me more optimistic. It's what I think needs to be done, not what I think will be done. I don't really need someone telling me that it's a tough row to hoe; I know that. The only thing I'm really willing to listen to is a superior course of action. I do have a plan B. Plan B is for an imperialist neocon neoliberal USA to go on fighting pointless wars while the lot of the average American gets worse and worse. Not very cheerful, but it's really the most likely outcome if nothing changes. So if you have an optimistic plan B, out with it! Just telling me about your doubts about my plan doesn't get me anywhere.  

[ Parent ]
But doubts do have their place (0.00 / 0)
Knowing where the obstacles are is the first step to overcoming them. Also, I am into 5 year, not 1 year plans (and I do like a good plan, especially if it's practical).

My doubts are the most benign in any case - you'll get much worse from those far more cynical than myself. But I do think it'd be useful to flush out the organization you have in mind just a bit more. I aalso agree that the emphasis on so many single issues had the effect of defocusing the progressive movement ssplintering it among so many special interests.

case in point: Illegal Immigration - why is so much energy spent on something that in the end will not net proportional number of voters and/or funds to fundamental progressive causes? there's this underlying assumption that everyone on the left automatically supports open borders and/or is against any kind of meaningful enforcement of the law against illegal immigration. Maybe that's not entirely true and one wonders whether we are not losing more than gaining by making this issue a lithmus case. I can mention a couple others in the same vein.

The important thing is to come up with a platform that people can rally around. With the understanding that it may not include all issues that are important to some people. That being said I wouldn't be willing to leave the I/P issue aside because that effectively means giving up on foreign policy altogether. Just like it has, IMO for way too many on the left.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, you do have to work out the details (4.00 / 1)
What I've proposed is the only thing that I can think of that might work. And there are details to fill in.

To me, the context is that progressivism is at death's door. Anti-progressives have a solid lock on the Democratic Party, the Republicans are far stronger than they deserve to be, and something has to be done. I actually tried to give up and quit a few months ago but I couldn't stick with it. At that time I thought that the situation was hopeless.

So when I came back, I asked something like, "If we are to respond effectively  to this [Obama], what should we do? Because if we don't do anything the game is lost for good."

What I proposed is my best shot at it. I'm willing to listen to improvements or superior alternatives. I really don't want to hear "Oh, that won't work", because that's the conclsuion I'm trying to escape from.  


[ Parent ]
Alas, when truth is often more complicated (0.00 / 0)
than a series of readily digestible sound bites, so it can be rather expensive to put forth, if the goal is to actually convince people. Maybe I know too many people who'd rather do anything than learn a different way of thinking. Or may be I know too many people who'd rather do anything than think ( I was often told thinking causes major head aches).

May be the problem is that people would rather be fooled, especially if the message is one they are pre-disposed to believe in already. Such as "trickle down economics", or "lower taxes on the rich put more money in your pocket". It's kind of the "military solution" to all problems -  "just shoot 'em up, and if that does not do the trick, shoot some more". There's something all too human - if stupid - in that approach.

Unfortunately, the progressive solutions to problems seems to take a lot more explaining than people are naturally inclined to listen to. I think that's partly because there's no way of tackling complex problems without going in depth to the nature of the problems. Or may be progressivism just does not allow people to take themselves off the hook, as readily as simple neo approaches do.

So, unfortunately, I still think it'll take a lot more money to get the messages across. But, I see no harm in starting somewhere with some money - as long as we realize that it'll take a lot more, ultimately. Maybe it can be multiplied with more voices, so it'll not be necessary to throw at it quite as much as the neos have had to.


[ Parent ]
Events like 9% unemployment make certain kinds of arguments easier (4.00 / 4)
Populist ideas are not abstruse. And the audience I proposed, discouraged voters, probably do not believe in trickle down economics or much of anything else. the thing that they need to be persuaded of is that their lives can be improved by poltiical action.

Wonk liberals, on the other hand, need a lot of complex convincing and are difficult indeed to talk into anything.

Note also that my hypothetical and rather fantastic dream of 5 million progressives donating $100 each brings with it, before a dollar is spent, 5 million votes and also 5 million unpaid spokespersons. This is different than a conglomerate of corporations coughing up the same amount of money in order to pay for spokespersons and buy votes.


[ Parent ]
As I said, I'm all for it (4.00 / 1)
So suppose you have your 5M progressives ready to hell out some serious dough (that's not so crazy to imagine, seeing the contributions halter got).  who will they end the $100. to?

OH yes, just to be a gadfly - one more question - must we still all avoid I/P like the plague? ie, be PEPs? if so, my contribution is down to $50.


[ Parent ]
Good post (0.00 / 0)
I really appreciate you pulling together all these ideas and proposing a focus  more on majoritarian economic goals.

G. William Domhoff (Leftists, Liberals - and Losers? How and why progressives must unite for real change, In These Times, December 21, 2009) argued for something similar: An alliance between Democratic liberals and leftist progressives that unites electoral and non-electoral strategies, bypasses the structural impossibilities of third parties and non-market centralized planning, reaffirms the importance of social movements, and provides an "us" vs. "them" framing that allows people to change their minds and thereby join what could become a new majority.

I have two quibbles with your statements:

* I doubt that Obama is truly a "neoliberal" or a "neoconservative". I say he is a very skilled politician who has learned very well how to adapt to whatever situation he is presented with. If he needs to espouse liberal viewpoints to get elected, he does that. If he needs to cut deals with Big Pharma to get a healthcare insurance reform billed through Congress, he does that. I disagree with his assessment of situations and how best to further his goals, but I admire his skill in playing the Washington power game -- clearly he has gone far by playing it the way he has. By the nature of the game, politicians must be skilled at lying and manipulating in order to acquire money and influence and in order to get elected. Some politicians still maintain a lot of integrity (Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown, etc.) but most don't have much and some have none. I thought Obama might have a bit more and I am disappointed that he doesn't seem to have much. But the point is that we can never depend on the integrity of politicians -- by the nature of the political game politicians will always be unreliable (or get defeated). We can only depend on our own integrity and fight as best we can for our own progressive ideals.

* Some single-issue groups are not at all progressive except for their one issue, but others are broadly progressive. For example, Emily's List is more interested in getting corporate women elected to office than feminist progressive men -- see for example how they endorsed Steve Cohen's opponent. Some labor unions care nothing about the environment or LGBT or even labor beyond their members, but others are broadly progressive. Some environmental groups and LGBT groups care nothing about labor or poor people, but others do. There was a time when these splits were much worse, but there is now much better understanding among groups. But in tight times, there is also competition for limited funding and a push by wealthy corporate funders to move to the right. I agree with you that we need to be more judicious in who we support -- I would say only issue organizations that are broadly progressive and that are also doing good work (research, education, lobbying) and who can help us to elect more progressives.

I agree that getting 5 million progressives to donate $100, speak out, and work for progressive candidates would give a giant boost to our efforts. As I understand it, that is exactly what MoveOn, CredoAction, TrueMajority, Progressive Democrats for America, FireDogLake, DailyKos Orange-to-Blue program, etc. are trying to do. They haven't done it quite the way I would like and they have been only partly successful, but they do seem to be trying to go that direction.


If I can channel my inner Pollyanna (4.00 / 4)
there is one cause for hope that I can see, and that is that many Americans who honestly thought they were part of the elite are learning they are in fact rabble, and that they can expect no mercy from the true elite.

The economically insecure are the fastest growing demographic there is, when and if the progressive movement learns to talk to them it will be unstoppable.

Montani semper liberi


That's our best hope (4.00 / 1)
I don't want to say "the worse, the better", but this downturn is going to stay bad for awhile, and a lot of people have had or will have their lives disrupted.  

[ Parent ]
The second part (4.00 / 3)
is more important than the first- because the reality is that practically all Americans are insecure whether they know it or not, and public policies, through both inaction and action, continue to make it worse.

The economically insecure are the fastest growing demographic there is, when and if the progressive movement learns to talk to them it will be unstoppable.

The irony of course is that it's the ideas of 1) government commitment to full employment and 2) social insurance that would help us speak to this issue, yet these are two areas where the split between progressives and elite Democrats is greatest.

Also, anyone who is interested in this issue should read The Great Risk Shift by Jacob Hacker.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.


[ Parent ]
And the most important two words in that sentence are "and if". (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
important post and comments (4.00 / 2)
One thing only touched on, but actually central to any substantial progress (like what is proposed here), is the accelerating decline of lifestyle of the vast majority.

Imho, as the leisure class adds holdings and income created by the workers, at the workers expense, the real producers (workers) gradually get more angry. This has been ongoing for about four decades, and the simmer is begining to boil. More and more understand that the current system is unsustainable and has failed. When the pressure reaches some uncontainable level, radical change will happen quickly. Explosive changes in a short period of time is why populism is feared and downplayed in both parties.

The exploiters of "disaster capitalism" are prepared for the comming survival struggle/real class war/caos and will roll out their think tank created and group tested propaganda, intent on creating offical facism. At that point, our chances will be slim, unless we also prepare, now.  

I agree with the general assumption, one on one "bottom up" organizing is mostly all we have available... but it can work, and has worked in the past. And the number of approachable people continues to grow with the recession/depression. Also think that it is the correct frame to refer to those we intend to convert as (some version of) "everyone else" versus the wealthy. It will be difficult, but this conflict cannot be avoided if we wish to remaine free, in the country our forfathers died for.

P.S. Maby we should view this situation as an opportunity, because we have been unable to achieve change in recent decades, regardless our efforts. And our painfull and disheartening decline will be ended when this comes to a head.

Government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob..... FDR


One mistake that should not be made (0.00 / 0)
(and I'm definitely not accusing you, but rather agreeing with you) is to assume that the situation in 2008 or 2009 has tremendous relevance for 2010 and 2011, especially in a time of great churn like this.  

We can't afford to be dogmatic about anything, but instead must keep ourselves open to any possibility which may become live.

We should not assume that our experience over the last few years tells us everything we'll need to know next year.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox