Cleanup Hitters Needed! ("Can't Anyone Here Play This Game?" Edition)

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 10:16


Encarta:
Known as the Old Professor, Stengel became a favorite of the fans for his colorful language, called "Stengelese," and his sense of humor. His colorful remarks include his famous lament to the unsuccessful 1962 Mets: "Can't anybody here play this game?"

The Democratic Party is like the 1962 New York Mets.  Winning is not an option.  Facing the worst, and most unpopular President of all time (save only Nixon as he circled the drain), with as many crimes as failures, all the Democrats can seem to do is find more ways to prop him up, and continue his failed policies.

Not only that, but facing political opponents who have built their entire movement on mass and individual character assasination, they have repeatedly turned on each other and their allies when Republicans have taunted them to do so in periodic hissy-fits of manufactured outrage.

This is not simply a matter of adding insult to injury.  These attacks on our own most commonly come at opportune times when we should be focusing all our fire on the Republicans.  And the person or group that's attacked is invariably someone who's advancing the argument into enemy territory.  Rather than supporting them in putting the enemy on the defensive, Democrats turn on them, and support Republican counter-attacks.

The latest example is Pete Stark attacking the GOP for opposing SCHIP.  Before that it was Moveon.org for criticizing His Holiness General Petraeus, using language his colleagues and troops had used for years.  Back in 2006, there was Kerry flubbing a joke about Bush's inept leadership in sending troops to Iraq.  (Bush, of course, never mis-speaks.) In 2005, Senator Durbin was attacked for comparing Guantanamo to Nazi or Soviet prison camps.  And in 2004, there was Edwards daring to mention that Cheney's daughter was gay--which was appreciated--followed by Kerry mentioning it, which was attacked.  And, of course, there was also Moveon.org letting someone's proposed ad comparing Bush to Hitler on their site. These are just a few of the examples that come readily to mind.

All these cases can be likened to a leadoff hitter getting to second base, perhaps a bit recklessly, and then, instead of the team bringing him home with a cleanup hitter, they join the other side in arguing with the umpire that he was out, since he didn't tag first base.

With the runner declared out, the pressure is off, and no one's under the spotlight to bring him home.  Which is good.  Because we have no cleanup hitters.  We have no front office, either. So there's no one to sign them. No scouts, so there's no one looking for them. No manager, and no batting coaches to bring them along.  All we've got is a third base couch, and he's Bob Shrum, whose only job to wave runners off of running home--even when the bases are loaded on a 3-2 count.

But the problem, we are told, is that damn Pete Stark. That damn Moveon.org.  That damn Dick Durbin.  What were they thinking?

Paul Rosenberg :: Cleanup Hitters Needed! ("Can't Anyone Here Play This Game?" Edition)
Yesterday, I wrote a diary "Reid Betrays Dodd On Telco Immunity Hold--The Political Duality of Rep and Dem, Part 4".  In it, I wrote:

the argument of this series is that just as liberals are more reality-based in their policies, while conservatives cling to inadequate formulations, the reverse is true when one looks at politics--at the art of positioning and maneuver, be it in running elections, or in translating policy ideas into reality.

More precisely, my argument is rooted in a model of cognitive development, in which level 3 corresponds with the stage of normal adulthood in a traditional society, a stage in which the self's subject is defined by the roles and relationships of the social surround, and level 4 corresponds to the next highest level, that of the modern self, which takes those roles and relationships as objects to be consciously and intentionally acted on:

Kegan's Subject/Object Schema of Cognitive Development
StageWe Are:
Subject
(structure of knowing)
We Have:
Object
(content of knowing)
Underlying Structure
1Perceptions

SOCIAL PERCEPTIONS

Impulses
Movement


Sensation
2Concrete

POINT OF VIEW

Enduring Dispositions
Perceptions

SOCIAL PERCEPTIONS

Impulses
3
Traditionalism
Abstractions

MUTUALITY/
INTERPERSONALISM
Relationship


Inner states
Concrete

POINT OF VIEW

Enduring Dispositions
Needs, Peferences
4
Modernism
Abstract Systems

INSTITUTION
Relationship-Regulating Forms

Self-authorship
Abstractions

MUTUALITY/
INTERPERSONALISM
Relationship

Inner states
Subjectivity
Self-consciousness
5
Post-
Modernism
Dialectical

INTER-
INSTITUTIONAL

Self-transformation
Abstract Systems
Ideology

INSTITUTION
Relationship-Regulating Forms

Self-authorship
Self-regulation
Self-formation

My argument is that conservative/GOP policies are stuck at level 3--sometimes devolving to level 2--in a level 4 or even level 5 world, while liberal/Democratic political practice (campaigning, legislative manuevering, making arguments in the media, etc.) is every bit as backwards as conservative/GOP policies are.

And more often than not, when some Democrat does step up their game to question the level 3 assumtions of Versailles (implicitly or explicitly, intentionally or not) they will be shot down--not so much by the Republicans, but by other Democrats (even many in the blogosphere) who will either leave them stranded at second base, or else join with the Republicans in persuading the umpires to call him out, for failing to tag first.

This diary was inspired in part by this exchange in comments yesterday.  There is a fundamental disconnect here: progressivesouls just can't seem to understand the point I'm making--you don't attack your own guy when he's advancing the argument, even if he does so imperfectly.  You take advantage of the gains he's made and put them on a firmer foundation.  Maybe afterwards you take him aside in private.  But not in public.  That is simply giving aid and comfort to the GOP, which is, of course, the enemy of normal Americans (Katrina, Iraq, SCHIP, etc.).

At one point in this exchange, progressivesouls writes:

I swear every time I read a post that starts out by saying I am buying into righty talking points I know that post is not going to make much of an argument. Suggesting that a fellow progressive is a righty is the action of a desperate person with no real argument IMO.

While this may very well often be the case, it most certainly is not the case here.  In fact, my entire argument has been about how the Democrats act from a place of being embedded in the level 3 assumptions that the GOP continually manipulates from a level 4 position.  This is not at all the same as saying "that a fellow progressive is a righty."  Rather, it is saying that even a fellow progressive (and not just a DLC clone) is going to be shooting themselves in the foot so long as they remain stuck in level 3 thinking, while the GOP runs level 4 rings around them.

We have to get smarter, people.  We are already much smarter when it comes to policy.  We know this without doubt.  But we need to apply that same intelligence at the same level of cognitive development in the realm of political gamesmanship, or we will continue to defeat ourselves over and over and over again.


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Is this a fair re-statement: (4.00 / 4)
Conservatives play -within- the existing rules of society, while liberals play -with- the rules. That is,  the right maintains that social mores (and economic roles, etc.) must be strictly enforced, while the left seeks dynaic change and reorganization.

However, conservatives play _with_ the existing  rules of politics, while liberals play _within_ those rules.

So conservatives engage in some creative use of political rules, and we go berserk. And when we engage in some creative act of -society- (think: New Deal), they go berserk.

Which explains the hostility one sometimes sees on the blogs to liberal gamesmanship, and the fear of becoming  'just like them' if we try to bring a grenade-launcher to a gunfight.


Precisely! (0.00 / 0)
Brilliantly and succinctly summarized!  Don't be surprised if I quote yoour comment in a future post.

This also anticipates where I intend to go next (or at least one of the "wheres")--a discussion of how to manipulate the political rules without becoming just like them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Thanks--take the comment (0.00 / 0)
and make it your own! I'm loving this series, and hope there's a book in the works ...

I'll be interested in seeing your discussion about manipulating political rules without becoming 'just like them.' That argument always seemed fairly week to me, but I've not been able to articulate an effective rejoinder.


[ Parent ]
Ah, but who is making the rules? (0.00 / 0)
In terms of laying out the dynamic, this is a good start. But if we're going to go all theoretical on this, there's a lot left to discuss:

1) The role of class in this. Ruling class vs. The Proles, etc.
2) Socio-political culture outside standard partisan labeling. In other words, this isn't just about conservatives and progs. It's about the organizational ethos of the DC Ruling Class itself, which I think we all know often crosses party lines whenever necessary.
3) The way Media Power is perceived by said ruling class. Simply put, it's vastly overstated in real terms (look at their ratings, circ numbers and polls!), but the Dem Leadership are more scared of them than the voting public in their own districts. IE: High Broderism is deeply retarded and no one outside DC gives a rat's patoot about it, but our Reps and Sens in DC care about it more than anything, it seems.

The rules these idiots are playing by were written during the Reagan era. Between the media establishment acting as proxy enforcers for these rules and Dem gullibility to these "rules," it pretty much guarantees failure in the long run. Failure is a relative term in this sense, however.

For the last 26 years, Dems have been treated very differently by the media and this has only gotten progressively worse over time. Dem gets a parking ticket, it becomes evidence of moral turpitude. Rep is serial rapist, pedophile or whatever, it will be ignored as long as possible and then downplayed when it does come out.

To me, all this boils down to whom the Dem leadership are actually trying to make points with. One look at the polls answers this question for us: the public simply doesn't figure into their end game, assuming they have one beyond avoiding taking crap from Tweety, Russert and Broderella.

Sadly, we live in a country in which inside baseball matters more than anything. It even matters more than policy for the Dems, as is indicated by their relentless self-immolation when it comes to getting anything done. Witness the RESTORE bill. Sure it sucked on some levels, but it was vastly better than what the Senate is going to do to us. Yet, it was allowed an ignominious death.

Nancy Pelosi famously said that if they pursued impeachment, they would be accused of engaging in "petty politics." At this point, I think most Americans outside DC would agree with the proposition that NOT impeaching HalliBushCO is engaging in petty politics. In other words, the political realities that our vaunted "leadership" see each day have little or nothing to do with what we see. They see defending the constitution and our rights as citizens as being "petty", while we see that issue as a matter of our own personal and national survival.

Our interests and theirs have little or nothing in common. I personally think the reasons for this have more to do with class than faulty gamesmanship. One doesn't get to be Speaker of the House or Majority Leader of the Senate without being good at playing the game. The problem is what game they are playing and who is judging the match.

If we assume that we (as in the body politik in general) are the judges, then all our common perceptions (not excluding any differences of opinion on Stark or whatever) make sense. If, however, we assume that WE are not the judges in this match, then the nature of the game itself is vastly different.

Consider Socio-Economic-Status. Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and many others in the Dem caucuses are wealthy people with strong links to corporate leadership. The CEO-class, if you will. They like their corporate money. They like the private planes. Their children go to the same private schools. They have more in common with each other, on a personal level, than they do with their so-called "base."

The media establishment, in these terms, is basically their public institution. Members of the Punditburo all make a lot of money, they were mostly born into rich families and sent to the "right" schools. They summer in the Hamptons, The Vineyard, Nantucket, etc. They send their kids to the same private schools. Etc.

So we shouldn't bristle too much when it turns out Broderella, Timmeh Russert et al have a lot more pull than we do. It also turns out these folks are largely Republican, but it's not so much about ideology as it is about power.

That is why Nancy Pelosi refers to people who write her emails demanding this and that are "advocates" and "special interests," while their corporate lobbyist friends are "real people." They are, after all, the people that they actually know and see quite often down at the lawn club or the marina.

I would suggest the one thing the Dems have learned from the Republicrooks is their Straussian playbook. The difference, in my mind, is that Dems aren't as good or prolific as liars than the Crooks. It only took about 10 months for the Dem leadership to basically throw up their hands and start insulting the base, whereas the Crooks just keep on throwing out ever greater lies.

I think if you go through the Dem roster in both houses and look at who are the most cozy with the CEO-class, that's where you'll find the ones that flip us a bird every time something really important comes up.

This isn't, IMO, really about liberals vs. conservatives. This is really about the members of the ruling class that don't have any respect or committment to our institutions or democratic traditions, vs. everyone else. In the House, those people make up a distinct minority of Dems and yet Pelosi is only too happy to accomodate them. In the Senate, they are a majority of the caucus.

These people simply aren't playing for our team. They have their own game and it doesn't include us. Perhaps that's where the cognitive problem really is.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Sure Class Is Important (0.00 / 0)
But there's nothing new in that.  FDR was a for-real 8th generation member of the aristocracy, for cryin' out loud!

So, of course one needs to be conscious of class issues.  But that's only part of the mix, and it needs to be studied as such, not as a reason to ignore or downplay all else.

Significantly enough, despite the current situtation, no less an expert on class power in America than William Domhoff has argued that the Democratic Party is more open to a progressive takeover in Congress than ever before in its history.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agreed on all counts... (0.00 / 0)
I wouldn't suggest anything be ignored. Your thread of posts have been a pleasure to read and quite thought provoking.

I do agree with Domhoff's assessment. We could very well be on the verge of another great Progressive Era, ala Teddy and FDR's handiwork. It's not going to be easy, however, as we are now learning the hard way that entrenched, undemocratic power lies at the heart our own party. At some point, that power will have to be challenged and subverted. Otherwise, we'll be stuck in this vicious cycle of wondering why Dems are so spineless and all that rot.

Still, it's important to remember the circumstances under which the last two progressive periods were born, with huge majorities of Americans living in terrible poverty. As our economy starts resembling ever more the banana republics elsewhere around the globe, class will become a big issue once again. Poverty and homelessness have a way of doing that to people.

With the grand neo-liberal/neo-conservative experiment of the last 26 years coming to a disastrous conclusion in the form of endless war and ever greater poverty for Americans (and most other nations, of course!), Domhoff's prediction will become reality. But we'll have to depose most of our own current leadership at some point, since they are mostly neo-liberals. It seems quite doable in the House.

http://en.wikipedia....

I gotta figure out this hot-link stuff....

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Agreed! (0.00 / 0)
And linking is easy.  Just substitute pointy brackets--less than and greater than, for the respective square brackets, and specific urls and link text for their generic standins:

[a href="URL"]Link Text[/a]

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
well said (0.00 / 0)
I am emailing this post to info@dccc.org and info@dscc.org

Me too (0.00 / 0)

  I wrote a rant on the Pete Stark thing and sent it to my local listserv. This post is the PERFECT followup.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
OMG Paul (0.00 / 1)
In your opinion Stark's saying on the House Chamber Floor while being videoed that Bush liked to see US soldiers heads being blown up for his amusement is getting to second base recklessly? You gotta be kidding? Is that the way we should raise our children also - to say things like that? Frigging Starks "Struck Out" with that comment as plain as the sun rose this morning.

We Don't Need Cleanup Hitters.

That's the bottomline. Mothers cleanup for their children's mistakes. Pelosi is not Stark's mother. In fact he is as old as her and should have known better.

The effort to shift Stark's mistake onto Pelosi is laughable at best. Quit supporting the stupidity of Stark's remark. We are not and should not act like the party of Tom DeLay and condone outrageous actions. But yet that is what meny are doing.

The blame is not Pelosi's for Stark's indiscretion. He is a man and is responsible for his own actions and words.

I simply cannot believe that so many intelligent people are trying to mollify Stark's words that he chose and hoist the blame on Pelosi. What the hell kind of party do we have here where a loose cannon's actions are white washed and the blame is hoisted on a person who had nothing to do with that mans words? Did our mothers always blame the friend who was not even around when we screwed up? Is that why the progressive blogosphere is acting like this? Or is this all just a big excuse to bash Pelosi even though it was Stark who put her and others in a bad position?

Is no one ever responsible for their own actions?

If a frigging republican would have said what Stark did about a Democratic President we would be all over him and laughing our asses off if the GOP was trying to blame their leader for not throwing themselves under the bus for him. And you know it!


Respectfully, (4.00 / 2)
If a frigging republican would have said what Stark did about a Democratic President we would be all over him and laughing our asses off if the GOP was trying to blame their leader for not throwing themselves under the bus for him. And you know it!

I know no such thing.  And, further, for all of the opportunities we've witnessed of the Democrats being delivered the chance to ridicule a Republican for 'similar' remarks the Democrats have been mute.


[ Parent ]
A quick stroll thru Free Left Blogistan shows you are in... (4.00 / 1)
....the minority with this opinion. Nothing wrong with that. But I think what people are saying, perhaps not with the decorum and 'rationality' that you would prefer, that....well....

Enough is enough!

Ever hear the expressin 'fight fire with fire.' Politics is a rough, contact sport and sometimes a fist in the mouth is required to get folks attention.

For myself I usually don't get to angry about the jabbering or 'Pills' Limbaugh and his ilk but....

I'm more than angry at Pelosi, as you see in my post, 'Sellout' Reid and others in the 'Democrat' Party.

Further, if you can't see in your minds eye Mr. Decider chuckling about the genocide he's visited on Iraqi's then....

You haven't been watching any of his press conferences.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
If holding someone (0.00 / 0)
responsible for what they said and that has contributed to the story of the last few days being about unnecessary words instead of being about what Democrats and republicans alike want to continue to push for - healthcare for children - is being in the minority then I'm fine with that.

The fact is that in 90% of the media the story is about Stark's ill spoken words. That is what the general public is reading and hearing. personally I can't see that as a good thing.

This unfair transfer of responsibility from Stark's to Pelosi is a blog thing and the general public could care less about it. But more importantly it does absolutely nothing to advance healthcare for children.

S-Chip is a popular program to the average Joe on the street. I think there is little question what their answer would be if asked about what they would rather have the news conversation be about the last few days - Stark's comments or pressing Bush to sign S-Chip. To most of the public that answer is a no brainer.

Bottomline the opponents of S-Chip are loving Stark today as he has taken S-Chip out of the news for the last few days.


[ Parent ]
Focus, Dude, Focus! (4.00 / 1)
The fact is that in 90% of the media the story is about Stark's ill spoken words. That is what the general public is reading and hearing. personally I can't see that as a good thing.

That's not because of what Stark said, you doofus!  Why do you think I listed all those other examples of manufactured outrage?  They all generated tons of GOP-scripted press, too.  If you blame Stark for this latest avalanche of GOP propaganda, then you have to blame all those other folks, too.

And then, of course, you have to explain just why we shouldn't view you as a concern troll, at best.

Since you've only been here four days or so, that's not a good first impression to make.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yeah of course (0.00 / 0)
the media isn't writing about what Stark said because he said it. They manufactured the entire thing and Stark never said such a thing even though there is manufactured video that says he did and he responded on a radio talk show admitting he did which of course was all manufactured also. I thought you were a serious guy.

Just who is the the one with the doofus argument here living in an alternative universe? You.

I got news for you. You can bring up everything you want to from the past but it doesn't change a thing. You are a Pelosi hater as you helped point out in another post plain and simple. That is what everything you have written points up to. And no that is not a personal slam because you are proud of being a Pelosi hater.

Onward. Hate away.


[ Parent ]
Hmmm. (4.00 / 2)
Progressivesouls, you're sounding less and less progressive to me all the time.  I've not traced out your earlier conversations with Paul Rosenberg, so I'm working exclusively with what you've said here.

(1)Yeah of course the media isn't writing about what Stark said because he said it....  No.  Stark said it, and the media is reporting it.  No one here said the media reported something Stark didn't say.  However, there is a real difference in how the media reports the 'Starks,' and how the media reports equivalent right wing meltdowns (eg, Stalkin' Malkin).  I'm surprised at your 'handle,' because I would expect someone who called themselves progressivesouls might have a casual awareness of bloggers such as Digby, Glenn Greenwald, Sadly No, and even some folks with a conservative bent (who now sound like leftist liberals to themselves) such as John Cole, as well as an array of others who've done an exceptional job documenting the difference between how the media deals with the right versus how the media deals with the left.  You seem totally unaware of that ongoing meme.  I have to wonder why.  Is this the only progressive site you visit?

(2) Dog whistle.  One of the meanings of 'dog whistle,' is the sound that only a dog can hear.  Reagan's appeal during his campaign in the south to states' rights was a dog whistle for those who wanted to hear him signal what he could only say in code; ie, a stance against affirmative action policies and a hat tip to white supremacy.

I detect two dog whistles in what you've written so far.  The kinds of  catch phrases that folks on the right are likely to use.

a.) Is no one ever responsible for their own actions?  Ah, yes.  The personal responsibility theme that is used to justify attacking the families that stood up for SCHIP.  Heard that one a lot.  It's the favorite right wing trump card that gets slapped on the table every time a progressive program to help a disadvantaged individual gets mentioned.

b.) Hate away.  It's curious to me that progressives rarely use hate quite that way.  A progressive might hate a thing or a person, but they'll always, in my experience, name the target for their ire.  It's a discrete event.  Your allusion to hate as a way of going, mode of behavior, of general attitudinal characteristic is distinctly evident in right wing screeds to folks on the left.  Curious, no?

I'm guessing if I went back into your other conversations with Paul, I could find other examples.  There is a long, honored tradition of conservatives who are quite liberal.  And, they used to be the dominant arm of conservatism in the US before the uglier Authoritarian (extreme right) took control of the party.  Could be you're one of those folks and having trouble adapting.  I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt - but not for too much longer


[ Parent ]
An Absurd Strawman Argument (4.00 / 1)
Your continued use of dishonest arguments is another thing that discredits you.

No one is saying they manufactured the whole thing.  That's not the argument at all.

What we are saying is that conservatives and Republicans say much worst things all the time and (a) no one says "boo!" and (b) Republican leaders certainly don't attack them for it.

Thus, when Mark Udall (D-CO) introduced a resolution condemding Rush Limbaugh for his "phony soldiers," Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA) introduced one praising him.

That's what the real argument is.  But you can't respond to it.  So of course you go after a straw man.

There's a name for people like you, who rely on fallacious arguments:  Republicans.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Do you agree (4.00 / 1)
that the following is the current dynamic:

Republican says something outrageous. Conservative narrative pushed. Response: Crickets.

Republican says something outrageous. Right-wing Overton window shifted. Response: Crickets.

Republican says something outrageous. Republicans score points with base. Response: Democrats make a fuss. Republicans make an even -bigger- fuss about the Democratic fuss. Second response: Republicans score -more- points, and Democrats learn to fear Republican outrageousness.

Republican says something insane. Conservatives cheer. Response: Crickets.

Republican says something outrageous. Conservative narrative pushed. Response: Crickets.

Democrat says something outrageous. Liberal Overton window shifted. Response: Republicans engage Crybaby Hyperdrive, lead the media into a frenzy of pearl-clutching and horrified outrage. Second response: Democratic leadership joins the pearl-clutching parade, scolds the outrageous Democrats, tearfully hopes this never happens again. Liberal narrative undermined.

Republican says something outrageous. Conservative narrative pushed. Response: Crickets.


[ Parent ]
Pretty Much. But You Forgot... (4.00 / 1)
Republicans destroy 800 years of Anglo-American law.
Response: Crickets.

American people vote for Democrats.
Response: Crickets.

I know they belong in there somewhere.  Maybe the extended ["democracy ghost"] dance mix.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You have different standards for Democrats (0.00 / 0)
and Republicans, I think.

Which is the bigger problem - Stark making those comments, or Bush shrugging his way through another press conference while claiming victory in Iraq?

And which one are you focused on?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
An example (4.00 / 1)
The most recent example I could find of Ridiculous Ramped-up Republican Rhetoric deserving of a jeering Democratic shout down was this SCHIP interpretation:  Socialized Clinton-style Hillarycare for Illegals and their Parents.  From Think Progress http://tinyurl.com/2...

I don't recall any hue and cry for censure of Steve King for that remark which he also accompanied with visual aids.  Nor, have I heard any hue or cry over  Tom Feeney's version: Socialized, Cuba-style Health care for Illegals and their Parents.  What I've heard was ... [crickets].  Perhaps you heard/read something different and can direct me?


[ Parent ]
With All Due Respect... Go Cheney Yourself! (4.00 / 1)
When the GOP stole the 2000 election, there were no "loose cannons" in the Senate, and so the House Black Caucus members who rose to object to the pseudo-election were denied the chance to speak.

Moral: We need more loose cannons, not fewer of them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
dog whistle (0.00 / 0)
I'm going to jump up a level on you, Paul.  What I think we're missing is a Stengel. 

I'd begun a different response to your piece suggesting that it was time for a different metaphor.  Indeed, Stengle's lament was the very first thought I voiced here and elsewhere when I learned the Democrats had decided to condemn the MoveOn ad.  And, the metaphor I thought we needed to shift towards was a help wanted ad for a couple of level four thinking Border Collies who could herd cats.  Fortunately, my computer locked up and the piece I'd written was lost.  Fortunately, because, about the time my system dumped I realized that even Border Collies - as brilliant as they are as herders, and as independently as they can work - still need a handler.

Reid and Pelosi clearly need handlers.  They're very much like inexperienced herding dogs.  Rather than punish the ewe that has found a better way to the pen, they need to turn the flock and point them in the direction of that, apparently, wayward ewe.  That happens sometimes.  Flocks can have their own leaders.  A good dog doesn't fight the leader within the flock, but sometimes it takes a handler's whistle to help them recognize it and capitalize on it.

So, where is Casey Stengle with a whistle?  If I fall back on your metaphor about the clean up hitters, we'd still need a Casey Stengle to recognize that he didn't have anyone who could hit clean up and do something about it. 


A Yup! (0.00 / 0)
Amen to all that!

I had given some thought to going into more detail with the metaphor, especially since the lead-off hitter is generally followed by someone (usually even two) who is not a cleanup hitter, but rather a dependable contact hitter, who is good at moving runners along, and doesn't strike out or pop up as often as cleanup hitters tend to.

We need all that, and more.  And of course management is the key.  Without management, none of the pieces will fit together properly.

My opinion of Pelosi is that she's a very good manager for a political context that simply doesn't exist.  She comes from a top political family in Baltimore, so politics is deep in her blood.  But it's not the sort of politics that we are experiencing today at the national level, and that is a politics that turns certain traditional political strengths into weaknesses.

One might well say that what Pelosi needs is a front-office GM to set her straight on what the big picture is.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'd like to see how the corruption factor plays (0.00 / 0)
with this paradigm.

There is no doubt in my mind that Pelosi's position on Telcomm immunization is influenced, if not dictated, by their actual or promised financial support for her and her caucus.

Would this be merely an adoption of Republican rule making?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
I Think It's More Complex (0.00 / 0)
There are a number of different aspects of this.  But, basically, the limits of what lobbyists might hope to acheive have been significantly expanded with the GOP in power, so in that sense the answer would be "yes."

See Glenn Greenwald's post "Robert Kennedy speaks out against Retroactive Immunity" for a sharp historical contrast in how Democratic leaders responded to such lobbying efforts in 1965 vs. today.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Saw your post at FDL and... (0.00 / 0)
'poked' Jane about corruption as a driver in this. Her fault in the first place since I could not see why Reid, only $22k, and Pelosi, none I could find, would 'sell out' for such chump change....heh...

Her finding the Verizon employee contributions to Rockefeller showed me just how unsophisticated in these techniques I am.

Hopefully someone will dig into this to see if it is true or just appears to be so.

I am of the very definite opinion that the MIC has done tremendous damage to our political process through the rivers of, in may cases untraceable, cash it's sent flooding through every corner of the nation.

And so I tend, where motivation is obscure or even seems counterproductive to achieving stated goals, to ask:

'Who's getting paid...And for what?'

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
A General Manager (0.00 / 0)
As much as I know about politics, or baseball, but I'm learning...

Would that be John Dean under normal circumstances?


[ Parent ]
Whoops! (0.00 / 0)
I meant Howard Dean.  I have John Dean on the brain from the book salon at FDL.

[ Parent ]
Dean Baker, Dusty Baker, Cook County And A Candlestick Maker (0.00 / 0)
It's like the man says, you can't tell the players without a program.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Kinda, Sorta, Not Really... (0.00 / 0)
The DNC chair is usually not expected to be that sort of a strategist (although far too many GMs don't seem to get what their job is about, either), but Dean certainly sees that as his role.  However, Reid and Pelosi in their infinite wisdom have seen fit to ignore him as much as possible, so his mostly just focused on farm team development.  In contrast, a good GM is concerned with the whole big picture.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I can see you've been busy with this new post Paul... (0.00 / 0)
but as per your request I did post this:

http://www.openleft....

And am happily awaiting my 'credit where it is due....'

Is support of my claim I give you this:

http://takeaction.wo...

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Credit Given... Belatedly! (0.00 / 0)
Actually, you were a bit too subtle in taking credit, and it went right past me.

I was expecting something more like, "Hey, that was me you doofus!" with a link to the original comment.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I thought that might be it... (0.00 / 0)
....which is pretty funny, because in person I'm anything but subtle.

Thanks.

Did you view the Leave it to Beaver clip I left the htttp for?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Yes, I Viewed It (0.00 / 0)
That's what I did, instead of getting your (not so) attention-grabbing point.

Pretty good.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
An example of what viral video (0.00 / 0)
can do....

And 'The Beave' has more cross generational appeal than one might think.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Do we need to get smarter ... (0.00 / 0)
... for at times I think we're too damn smart for our own good.  Our/your brilliance is met with a lead pipe to the head, and we try to figure out a smart response.

I am still inspired by the words of the Incredible Hulk:  All I know is that you try to kill me, and for that you must pay!

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


Being Smart Means Knowing How To Strike Back (0.00 / 0)
Re being "too damn smart for our own good," see my MyDD diary from back in the day, "Terri Schiavo: We're Too Smart!".

This series is all about understanding that we're not so smart when it comes to the political battlefield side of things.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sometimes it means knowing TO strike back (4.00 / 2)
I don't think we're on different pages, but I'm probably holding the book upside down.  I think it's the difference between propaganda and agitation.

The smart I despise is, for instance, the Reid/Pelosi smart that says that we should hope that the war in Iraq keeps going, because then we can score better in 2008.  The smart I despise is the smart that says you can't just SIMPLY cut the funding for the war.

The stupid I advocate is to agree on a few (3) principles (Bread Land Peace, Liberty Equality Fraternity, maybe for us Peace Healthcare Privacy), and hammer them hammer them hammer them.  I'm aware that you'd have gotten my sense if I'd said "hammer them" just once.  A whisper would have done it.  But to say HAMMER THEM HAMMER THEM HAMMER THEM in fact conveys a slightly different meaning.  Agitational.

The smart required is to agree on a simple framework, to agree to fight, and to create the organizational structure for conducting that fight, the torpedoes be damned.  OpenLeft is a brilliant forum, and I have a deep respect but the question I pose is, how does it translate into mass agitation every day and night to hammer them hammer them hammer them?

Now to digress a bit.  I'm not advocating everyone dump the Democratic Party, but I think that we have to have an anchor among independents.  I think there's some sentiment that we can use independents, for which I'm humbly grateful, but I think that independents can provide the anchor for progressives in general.  Their gut sense that we are all getting fucked by a two-party system creates an anger and, in its stunning simplicity, a conceptual framework from which we can ... well, you know.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
Too smart (4.00 / 1)
The classic baseball manager who was "too smart" was, of course, Gene Mauch.  Mauch devised an incredible number of short term strategies that were innovative as hell but frankly cut his team's potential.  It was Mauch who invented the multiple substitution (changing out the pitcher and the last hitter who made an out at the same time in order to get an extra few outs potentially from his pitcher.  Of course, Mauch teams blew through their benches, had weak lineups on the field at crunch time, and stretched relief pitchers when they were only ineffective.  Mauch was a big advocate of the bunt. 

Meanwhile, Mauch was terrible at things like manah ging his pitching staff as he chronically threw starters out of turn down the stretch, overpitched relievers, etc.

Mauch never made it to the world series despite being a very smart man (and so smart that he feuded with reporters about how smart he was).

Earl Weaver, on the other hand, managed by such verities as establishing a starting rotation and sticking with it.  If you manage for one run, that's all you'll get.  Weaver, like Stengel, was a little fractured on the syntax.  Like Stengel, he employed a mix of situational platooning and a core of key regular players.  He kept everything on 3 by 5 cards and years before anybody else had situational stats, Weaver had them and managed by them.

So, smart managers don't panic.  Don't make a lot of short term moves, keep the long term in mind.  It's a different game, but John Wooden was so calm he appeared damn near comatose at times and Wooden always knew exactly what was going on.  Nancy and Harry could learn a few zillion things from Weaver or Wooden (or Stengel) about making a plan and sticking to it.  Make every day your masterpiece.  The star of the team is the team.  Avoid confrontation with your own players (Stengel warned them not to drink at the hotel bar because he was there). 


[ Parent ]
mutations and innovations (0.00 / 0)
S'okay, Paul.  Trying to say within the boundaries of the discussion.  If I understand you when you say, My opinion of Pelosi is that she's a very good manager for a political context that simply doesn't exist.

Then, Pelosi (and, Reid) need help understanding that the game they're playing is no longer baseball but Cricket.  The Republicans introduced a game within a game; they've innovated.  The Democrats think they're still playing good old fashioned baseball, not recognizing that they baseball game they know, now has some added elements which weren't there before.  And, they don't recognize those new elements, or the innovated game which evolved from that addition.

If we're not going to be like them then, I suspect, we're going to need to add an innovation (or, two or three) of our own.  Innovations that soothe the soul of the progressivesouls among us.  That's going to be a tall order, I think.


Well It's NOT Cricket! (0.00 / 0)
Which is a British colloquialism for saying something's not fair.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Well, I don't know if ... (0.00 / 0)
... it's cricket or not.  I'd like to argue that the Republican innovation wasn't kosher, but we don't need a game of metaphors on top of every other game we're playing.

Although.

I suppose, if I press the recognition piece a little further, then part of your argument is the Democratic Leadership's (read: Pelosi and Reid's) inability (1) to recognize the change in the pattern, (2) to figure out how this new pattern is different from the old, and (3) to transfer old skills from the previous pattern, into applications which effectively respond to this new pattern.  Identify, discriminate, associate?

I have to admit, I'm dubious.  What we've seen is their desire, and folks like progressivesouls, to force this new pattern back into the old paradigm.  That's not going to happen of course.  Makes me think of how folks respond to software upgrades, or software innovation.  Maybe, the better analogy is moving from one operating system platform (eg, PC) to a real different one (eg, UNIX).


[ Parent ]
Three Card Monte (0.00 / 0)
That's the game.

Me, I hate most software upgrades.  I long for the 80s when I had Write Now on my Mac, and it outperformed Word by 2 or 3-1 or better on everything that mattered.  (New apps, sure.  But most upgrades beyond 2.1 are sheer bunk.)

But I think such changes are too clear-cut to use as a guide for what were dealing with now, although they may illuminate some aspects of it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
A progressive healthcare media initiative (4.00 / 1)
I read the discussions of Stark's comments and Lakoff's views of healthcare policy perspectives late last night after a rare day away from the computer. I was blown away by the clarity and significance of the Lakoff excerpts, and frustrated by what struck me as Democratic and media dysfunction related to Stark's comments.

In some respects, progressivesouls is correct that Stark's comments ARE the issue.  But only because they have been made the issue by and are now being obsessively chewed on by the MSM.

Taken together, these two threads scream out a message to me--that the netroots and its progressive allies would be wise to begin planning and building a web-centric media strategy and infrastructure to fight and win the coming battle over healthcare policies.

The Lakoff excerpts clearly and poignantly highlight what is at stake on this issue, and how it can serve as a "lead issue" in defining and pursuing a progressive political agenda for the Democratic party and this country.  This central role for healthcare is also suggested by the "dignity for all" and "dignity and security for all" progressive political foundational themes proposed by Robert Fuller and Paul R. in earlier posts.

When this issue comes to the forefront in a post-08-election political environment (one in which we'll hopefully have a Democratic president and stronger control of both houses), we want to have in place media strategies and infrastructures that can attract the attention of and communicate clearly and strongly to the hearts and minds of American citizens the progressive message on healthcare policy, the foundation of which Lakoff eloquently explains in the excerpts provided in Paul's earlier post.

The healthcare issue impacts most Americans on very core levels--getting sick or having sick relatives is a very powerful experience that can quickly and profoundly refocus virtually everyone's perspective when they're forced to face it.  I recently experienced that in my own family.  All of a sudden, all of our very busy and otherwise-focused lives became intensely focused on the failing health of one family member, and what was needed to deal with it (and this person had very good insurance coverage, which tragically isn't the case for many Americans).

Given its fairly universal and primal potency, and the clear distinctions suggested by Lakoff between progressive, conservative and neoliberal perspectives on the healthcare issue, I think it provides an ideal issue for taking the progressive netroots media strategy to another level of potency.

As I see it, a core component of this would be a web-based multimedia portal/community that included and combined video, audio, text, blogs, community-building, various forms of policy proposals (from short and easy to digest to deep, detailed and well-documented), political action planning and mobilization, rapid response to right-wing lies and MSM distortions, etc.  It would also incorporate the best of progressive communication-strategy thinking, including the "framing," "cognitive level" and "cleanup hitter" elements discussed here by Paul.

Among the goals of this web-based initiative would be to bring together the best progressive thinking on the healthcare issue and present it in a powerful way that could provide an alternative and antidote to what people are likely to find in the MSM--both so-called "news and public affairs" programming and the inevitable barrage of advertising this issue will trigger as it gets closer to legislative action.

As this issue gets rolling (in '09?), a significant majority of American homes will have broadband connectivity to the Internet.  Given the emotional power and controversy that the healthcare issue engenders, and the clear distinctions between progressive, conservative and neoliberal approaches to it (and the values that underly these different approaches), my sense is that a well-put-together web-based multimedia communication strategy & platform could play a big role in winning the battle for hearts and minds that this issue will trigger. 

And, importantly, this battle (particularly if we fight it well and especially if we win it) will help create a much more solid and potent foundation for other battles that we, as progressives, also hope to win.


I Agree With All The Above (0.00 / 0)
Now, the question I have--and only because I don't have any answers just screaming inside me at the moment--is what can we do here and now to start laying some groundwork for what's going to be needed?

Aside from thrashing out ideas, that is, which we are already doing.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Initial thoughts on getting a ball rolling (0.00 / 0)
I'm too tired to give a good response right now, but will try to do so later. 

My initial thought is that, if I didn't already have an overly full plate and a need to generate income, and could volunteer for the job of "facilitator" or "instigator," I might start with the following:

1) Work with a few others (e.g., you) to pull together a draft document describing the need, the vision and a basic strategy for achieving it.  This would probably include a "long" version as well as a short "executive summary" document.

2) Begin a focused outreach to the "talent" (e.g., our best progressive communicators and communication strategists), the leading blogs and online communities, progressive organizations, some online tech platform/tool developers, potential funding sources, among others.

The initial goal of this phase would be to achieve a critical mass of support and involvement, and input for refining the original draft plan. 

This would be followed by creation of a set of electronically-linked working groups to get things in motion.  These would be comprised of volunteers from these various "stakeholder" populations and organizations.

Ideally, most of these working groups would include a healthy mix of "insiders" and "outsiders" and maybe also of "generations."  And they'd each be represented in an overall steering committee that would help coordinate and guide the development process.

Of course, getting all these parties to work together could be challenging.  But I do think there'd be a pretty strong shared interest in the goals, and in creating something that could help us achieve them. 

It's also possible that varying degrees and modes of cooperation and collaboration could be accommodated by incorporating a flexible technical and organizational structure.  That's part of the beauty of a software- and web-based platform, if it's well designed and with this flexibility as one of the design goals.

One element I appreciate about Open Left is that it was founded by Chris and Matt--two "outside agitators"--and Mike, an "inside" agitator.  I think that could be a key element that, while adding some challenging aspects to such a project, could also make it much more formidable as an agent of change.

If you have any response to these initial thoughts, I'm all ears. 


[ Parent ]
Are you familiar with Jerome a Paris of dKos... (0.00 / 0)
...and his creation of 'Energize America' using the distributed 'computing' power of the the dKos blog?

There are some things to learn from the process he used....I do believe.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
I'll check it out.

[ Parent ]
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