More On Building the House Progressive Caucus

by: Paul Rosenberg

Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 09:00


Yesterday, in "Blue dogs decimated, blue dogs triumphant" I called attention to the Blue Dogs losing more than half their seats in Congress, and in "Fighting smart", I endorsed Big Tent Democrat's argument that progressives should start immediately "focus on Dem primaries for House seats."

To flesh out the argument further, yesterday at DKos, Chris compared the Blue Dogs, New Dems & Progressive Caucus, showing how drastically different they fared:

And the resulting swing in makeup of the House, making the Progressive Caucus the new plurality:

Check his post out for a chart with a much finer level of detail.  But here's how Chris concluded:

Losing the House is painful, and will cause lots of problems for two years (or more). However, it does give us an opportunity to reshape the ideological composition of the House Democratic caucus in a positive way. Imagine if we can retake the House with the CPC maintaining this new plurality.

Clearly, the strategy Big Tent Democrat suggests would help us do precisely that.  In 2006 and 2008, progressive activists were the boots on the ground that helped build a new congressional majority for Democrats. But it was a majority hand-picked, for the most part, by Rob Emmanuel, and it produced exactly what you'd expect given this parentage--a great deal of waffling and ambivalence, with a House Progressive Caucus that seldom even tried to assert itself.  I really don't think most people appreciate what a tremendous accomplishment it was for Nancy Pelosi to get so many bills passed, so many of which were relatively good--as can be readily deduced by seeing how many hundred of them died without going anywhere in the Senate.

But what if those members elected with our hard work had all (or at lest mostly) been progressives instead?  True, the Senate would have still been a tremendous obstacle.  But with a more ideologically unified House caucus, we could have had even stronger legislation, held more unified hearings and engaged in other activities to highlight the content of bills and generate enthusiasm and voter support to bring pressure to bear to help move things through the Senate.  It's not a magic bullet, to be sure.  But it's clearly the biggest tool that's readily available for progressives to reach out and grab.  And the way forward to fill those seats with progressives hasn't been this wide open since just after the 1994 elections, when there was nothing remotely close to the level of activist organization that we've got today.

Finally, this is the most effective way I can see to organize a counter-force to Obama's tendency to further compromise with Republicans.  Being old enough to remember Ted Kennedy's primary challenge to Carter in 1980, I know there is simply no comparable liberal figure for progressive activists to rally around.  Equally important, everyone in the party knows that as well.  But an organized effort to recruit dozens of progressive House candidates is something else again.  It's far more credible, given what we've already accomplished in the past.  And it carries with it an implicit threat of splitting the party if Obama goes to far in compromising with implacable enemies.  (The theory here is simple: A credible implicit threat is more credible and meaningful than a non-credible explicit threat.)

How can we not take advantage of this opportunity?

Paul Rosenberg :: More On Building the House Progressive Caucus

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Progressivism Can Sell (4.00 / 1)
How many of the Blue Dog seats were in districts not strongly conservative Republican?

My hunch is that some of those seats could have been won if the candidate had been been an unabashed progressive who talked about jobs, working people, and how to control an out of control business sector. Voters are not stupid even with so much Republican money spent on scaring people. Especially when there continues to be a huge disconnect between what politicians talk about and the reality on the ground for most people. A progressive message is more reality-based.

To implement your idea, it would be useful to break down all House districts to determine the top 50 opportunities where a strong candidate with a strong progressive message would make a difference. You've clearly defined the type of seat (e.g. a Blue Dog lost, a Dem lost in a not 70% Republican district).

Of course, redistricting is another wild card that would have to be factored in.


A 50-State Mentality (4.00 / 2)
I wouldn't limit us to districts where we can most easily win. It's important to build progressive strength everywhere.

Of course it's only natural to put extra effort into where we think we can win, but we should always be thinking about building for the long run.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
According to Progressive Punch (4.00 / 3)
The breakdown of districts for Blue Dogs who lost:
2 lean Democratic (Patrick Murphy PA-8, Charles Wilson OH-6)
7 swing
6 lean Republican
8 strong Republican

The breakdown of districts for Blue Dogs who won:
11 strong Democratic
4 lean Democratic
3 swing
5 lean Republican
2 strong Republican (Dan Boren OK-2, Jim Matheson UT-2)

I'm pessimistic about what the chances would have been for an Alan Grayson-type Democrat in most of those seats.  (Progressive Punch rated Grayson's district as a swing district.)

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
It All Depends (4.00 / 4)
It you think the idea is to just win easy pickups, then you're right.

But if the goal is to build progressive power for the long haul, then that's quite another matter.

There's little doubt that Grayson would have won in anything close to a normal year.  

Also, I should have been clearer on this.  I'm not suggesting we should onlytry to run in and win the lost Blue Dog seats.  We should be taking advantage of all seats without sitting Democrats.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Developing the Apparatus for This (4.00 / 4)
Right now progressive agencies for organizing behind, funding, and advocating for progressive candidates are all over the place. PCCC, moveon, DFA, labor unions, etc. don't have any unifying "grand scheme" of things that unites and coordinates their activities. And building something new isn't a very practical option within the narrow frame of 2010-12. But I agree that the opportunity is there and the Democratic party is not likely the best mechanism for generating a progressive upsurge. It's going to take strong leadership from somewhere (maybe one of the above mentioned groups?) to propose how the apparatus for this gets developed and implemented.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

i have been thinking for a long time that we need to have a progressive (4.00 / 5)
convention or something like that. with all of those groups, the members of the progressive caucus, the progressives that lost, and potential candidates to establish a coordinated effort and to start to frame issues in new ways. ways that are progressive, raise revenues and reduce taxes. when you talk to people about things that make sense to them they agree on the issues and solutions without putting ideological names to it. it could become our version of the tea party inside the dem party.

[ Parent ]
I wouldn't emphasize "inside the party" too much. (4.00 / 3)
IMO, if the goal is to create a bigger power base, then one foot in the party and one foot out is probably best. Otherwise, you lose the Greens and others who've long been disaffected by the Democratic Party. Obviously, we need a lot more people than the Party can offer up by itself. Also, it would be more empowering for people and groups if they felt they had a means of resisting control by the Neo-Liberals that run the Party itself.

Then again, keeping one foot IN also means party-building by bringing in more people. But at least it means people have choices beyond what we're offered at the moment...

I bristle at people wanting to create a Tea Party on the left. After all, that's just a corporate-founded, funded and managed Astroturf group. Chances are we'll see a Democratic astroturf group at some point, so as to maintain the Balance of Absurdity within the polity. It's just all kabuki-style rebranding to confuse people and keep them powerless.

But I agree on a convention completely! Netroots Nation shows that people will show up in numbers and groups will show up too. We just need to keep the Neo-Libs out so we can get some actual work done. I won't go to a pseudo-progressive confab that has Neo-Libs like Clinton or Reid as headliners. It's just a waste of time.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
totally agree, we need to both work witn and outside of (4.00 / 2)
the party. one of the ideas i have been talking to a lot of people about is the mortgage issue. My idea is instead of the govt giving money to banks that won't lend and then insuring them if the mortgage defaults thee gov should make direct loans for those mortgages and use the interest earned to pay for things like schools and infastructure and paying down the debt. people think it is a good idea and i don't present it in an ideological way, just something that seems to make a lot more sense then the current system. govt insurance against losses is not capitalism

[ Parent ]
Well yes, that's a good way of thinking about these things. (4.00 / 1)
Of course ideology is central to most ideas, but it's not necessary to couch our positions in that way. Common sense appeals on numerous issues, mortgages being an easy one. Also, simply enforcing the law isn't a bad idea. It's actually paleo-conservative in a way. The bailouts are hated almost entirely across the board, for myriad reasons.

Ideas like justice, which Neo-Liberals and Neo-Conservatives are directly opposed to, are not opposed by most Americans.

The ruling elites are, in fact, making it much easier to talk about major issues in starkly plain terms.

Advantage: anyone who goes there.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
exactly, last night i was watch some show on msnbc and they (0.00 / 0)
had two tea partiers on who were talking about the ruling class. can you imagine they are even stealing the language of the left but then promoting far right ideas

[ Parent ]
Yes of course, because they have to! (4.00 / 2)
They can't deal with any issue honestly. Period. If they were remotely truthful, 70% of Americans would demand their arrest for Sedition or Treason.

So they appropriate the language, modalities and symbols of the left. They compare themselves to MLK. They appropriate symbols of the Revolution. They talk about Freedom and so on. Of course, what they are is really Neo-Confederates and Fascists who positively hate all  that freedom stuff to death.

But that won't work come election day, so they do the next best thing: Project, smear and obfuscate, while posing as the last bastion of American Values... even though they despise those values with every fiber of their being.

And the media lets them get away with it, because they're in on the gag.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
I'm going to disagree with a few things there (0.00 / 0)
A significant portion of the Greens are already lost.  Not all of them, not even a majority of them, but a decent number are similar to members of the Libertarian in that they are socially dysfunctional people who could never get along with people who disagree with them.  Other disaffected leftists are fertile ground, but the Greens less so.  And, yes, I am trying to be intentionally insulting to some people who support the Green Party.

The Tea Party is not just a corporate-founded, funded and managed Astroturf group.  I don't think some people get that the Tea Party movement includes some genuine populist fervor that can't be controlled by whatever corporate masters you think are behind it all.  It's become a vehicle for disaffected fringe groups to band together and affect the Republican Party more than they could do separately.  If it were a completely managed Astroturf group, it wouldn't have defeated as many Republican establishment candidates in the primaries.

I think confrontation is better than separatism.  I want to put progressives and neoliberals in the same room together with enough tension that some people fear violence might occur.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Well, the insults are clear, five by five, on that. (0.00 / 0)
The TeaBircher "movement" is everything both of us have said about it. It's still essentially phony, no matter how you slice it up. It can't survive on it's own terms, for all those reasons.

In other words, it's not really a "movement" at all, since it's based entirely on falsehoods on every level of it's very existence. It has a very limited shelf-life, as a result.

I don't know what your insistence on using fear as a tactic is. It's odd, to say the least. Threatening violence only works to the advantage of the Righties, since they have all the guns, for starters.

You can recruit a handful of boneheads that way, but you'll never build a Progressive Movement that way.

I'm not particularly attached to Greens or any other group, at the moment. It all depends on a multitude of factors. Some local groups of various stripes have done okay to well. Some haven't. But that's besides the point altogether.

The point is to get as many people involved as possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by separatism. If it means not letting Neo-Liberals who masquerade as "progressives", then yes, I'm done with that crowd. They're a lot more trouble than they're worth.

As for confrontation, it's inherent in politics. Period. It's more a question of how one goes about it than whether it occurs or not. Because if there's one thing the last few years have shown us, it's that when Progressives avoid confrontation, it comes to us anyway. So one might as well take the initiative and shape that process, rather than be victim to it.

But I find your taste for violence distasteful in the extreme.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
I Think The Tea Party Is Largely Corporate-Driven (0.00 / 0)
but that doesn't make it not a movement. And that doesn't mean it can't get out of hand.  The history of fascist and proto-fascist groups looks a lot like this in virtually all cases.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Of course, but that wasn't really my point. (4.00 / 1)
I suppose if we really drill down into it, we might be able to quantify a movement in there somewhere. I guess my question is, "Where is it, who are they and what do they think they're doing?"

So in a case like this, I basically think you and I are both correct, in that the picture is so muddy, it's hard to know where the sausage is. The plebes who dutifully take orders can be considered "movementarians," or something like that, but leadership can't. Nor can the money or the media establishment's involvement in propping it up in the first place. Of course, this is usually the problem with RW Populism. It's certainly REAL when it comes down to the business end of things, such as the violence that is inherent in these "movements." It takes true believers to go that route.

But in this comment, I was mostly taking umbrage Jesus' taste for violence--everything before it was largely lead-in to that, as I'm sure you understand. I emphatically reject that. Oh, and how ironic is it to read the words, "Jesus' taste for violence"?

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
"convention or something" (4.00 / 2)
Hello! Netroots Nation! We should make this event much less about DKos and more about organizing for change in the broader progressive community.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Another point is that: (4.00 / 2)
The House candidates of today are the Senate candidates of tomorrow.  

Sounds like a good idea! (0.00 / 0)
This is, I'm assuming, a targeted campaign in the context of the broader strategy of supporting a more, rather than less, left-leaning candidate in any election.  In that vein, there might be other steps that would be useful:

1) I wonder if there's a complementary place for a 'less shitty Republicans' effort in Republican primaries.  The David Frum / Bloomberg / Lincoln Chafee type, particularly where they run as independents rather than as republicans.  not that progressives should necessarily be involved in this, but turning a blind eye to it at minimum would be useful and considering interventions of a variety of kinds might be useful.  

2) supporting issue-based campaigns that are likely to increase progressive turnout (e.g. the marijuana prohibition repeal campaign in california, the freedom party in new york, etc.)

3) in very few instances, supporting serious general election challenges from the left where the district would support a more progressive democrat than the democratic candidate (or more likely incumbent) is likely to be.

4) The fourth one I'm mentioning not because it needs doing but because I think it's part of it and is already happening.  which is non progressive democrats in general election campaigns against shitty republicans (currently, about 99.9% of them).

This would round it out to a 50 state strategy, while still supporting the broader strategy of a better, powerful major party.  

:D


I Already See This As A 50-Strategy In Essence (4.00 / 1)
It's just a matter of focusing first where the opportunity is greatest.  So regardless of how I might feel about any of your specific suggestions, I'm definitely in tune with your spirit.

Issue campaigns, I think, are especially important.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
couple of quick thoughts (4.00 / 4)
1)  
hand-picked, for the most part, by Rob Emmanuel

Rob?  Or, Rahm?

2)  

effort to recruit dozens of progressive House candidates

There is experience to be tapped.  The Hamsher/Greenwald Accountability Now project has endeavored to find some of these folks.  Glenn has written about how hard it is.  The risks the potential candidates feel.  Hamsher/Greenwald are worth talking to.

3)  Echoing jeffinnc... (a) I've complained before (I know.  Whine, whine, whine...) about the plethora of organizations all hitting my email inbox to sign identical petitions.  Huge duplication of effort (and cost?).  Centralization isn't always bad and will be necessary to recruit funding/donors.  A that to point to, not all those thats. (b) Agree, time frame too short to build something new.  Consolidation of effort - on some level - might afford a temporary fix for the next election cycle, and could be expanded/built upon going forward.  I've (pitifully) pleaded before that we are too fragmented...


Oh, and... (4.00 / 4)
I still believe you need a platform around which to organize and recruit (not just candidates for office, but supporters/members/donors, as well).  Not a huge laundry list of issues, either.  A couple of core positions that would have broad appeal.  I'm thinking 5 or less.

[ Parent ]
Good Point! (0.00 / 0)
I think that's pretty basic.  Folks need to be clear what they're supporting.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Hey, I'm STILL Sleep Deprived! (4.00 / 1)
And you're spell-checking me?  Heck, I'm just damn lucky that I'm not under some damn spell.  Christine O'Donnell says she's not a witch, and you believe her!

(2) The risks are much less when there's no incumbent.  That's one of the main points.

(3) Agreed.  No need to reinvent the wheel.  I would add Progressive Democrats of America to the list.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes indeed, some kind of Progressive Coordination Group would be a stellar idea. (4.00 / 6)
Given the time frame between now and 2012, something fairly ad hoc might have to do. When I worked for the Party, we had Coordinated Campaign Committees, which did a lot of the same things, creating synergies where possible and enhancing efficiency by reducing multiplicitous efforts.

Alan Grayson is unemployed, perhaps he could Chair? Just a thought.

Get progressive groups to send a key person to sit on a board and/or issue steering committees, bring some money and be able to commit labor when needed. Get groups that currently seem disparate to help each other out with their issues and start building a broader coalition capable of focusing more tightly when and where needed. They all have lists... those lists are important, as those represent already established reach.

It'll be like herding cats at first, so some strong people with stronger senses of humor would be essential, methinks.

One caveat: I think the current Party Leadership will be awfully pissed off if they can't control/co-opt this, so there will need to be some spine in doing this, even to the point of being willing to back third party candidates where appropriate. If a working group doesn't put the agenda ahead of Party, they will lose a lot of potential clout.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
I Think Grayson's Leadership Would Be A Stellar Idea (4.00 / 2)
Talk about making lemon out of lemonade!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
One Nation (4.00 / 1)
One Nation is that group of groups. And we need something that will exist after 2012. Ad hoc organizations that get disbanded right after an election can't build a movement.

[ Parent ]
Agreed. But one has to start somewhere. (0.00 / 0)
We're on a tight schedule here. So let's slap something together, based on what's already out there and build on that. If it works, it will become permanent.

I'm just trying to be realistic. I'm not suggesting an ad hoc only thing. An actual movement means a lot of people are deeply committed and organized. It takes a little time to do that.

You're not going to hear me saying we need to limit anything.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Russ Feingold, Howard Dean (4.00 / 1)
let`s do both things, instead of settling for less (not that this strategy isn`t good- I`m all-in on more progressive legislators)

There's an article up on TPMDC (4.00 / 2)
that quotes a GOP pollster who thinks Obama will be challenged by either Dean or Feingold.  

I don't see it happening and, given the amount of resources it would take, think the payoff would be far greater from creating a legislature that fought for an activist liberal agenda.  Transforming the legislature would transform the presidency, while the reverse is certainly untrue, and we do not have 1) a viable liberal presidential candidate 2) the resources to effectively take on both tasks at once.  

It's not about settling for less, it's about recognizing that transforming the ideological makeup of the House and Senate is a massive task with a huge long-term payoff that will require decades of effort and an enormous amount of resources.  Moreover, such a movement would necessarily change the Democratic party as an institution in fundamental ways.  The same cannot be said for taking on an incumbent President who, as much as we correctly point out his many limitations, remains quite popular within key demographics of the Democratic electorate.    


[ Parent ]
did you miss the part where I said "do both"? (4.00 / 2)
also I mentioned two viable liberal candidates who are rumoured to run

[ Parent ]
Hello all (4.00 / 2)
I don't post here much, but read this site religiously. Just wanted to say that I think that this is a fantastic idea.

Just one question. Do you think that a push to ratify fusion voting in more states would have its place in this scheme? Hasn't that worked out well for the Working Families Party in New York?


Fusion Voting Would Be FIne With Me (0.00 / 0)
But just be aware how hard a fight this is. I was a New Party supporter before the Supremes put the kybosh on fusion as a matter of voters' rights.  They've made it really hard to expand it to other states.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yeah, I realize that it will be tough (0.00 / 0)
but I was trying to think of long-term goals. Fusion voting is one way to work "inside" and "outside" of an established political party.

[ Parent ]
Funding (4.00 / 1)
Who got together all the giants of democratic fundraising in 04 after the Kerry loss?  They need to be convinced to invest in this strategy as well as commmit more resources to long term communications infrastructure.  Like $10 million a year. Get Demos involved for starters?

What should a progressive in a conservative district look like (4.00 / 6)
I'm sure many believe straight-up progressives can win in conservative districts, but I'm assuming that isn't quite true.  I do think fairly progressive candidates can win, though, if they come in the correct flavor.

So what are we looking for in a candidate?  I think economic populism can sell sell in conservative districts (from the correct candidate at least) but I'm far less sure about social issues.

At a minimum, however, I suggest the following:

1) Candidate should never attack the Democratic base.

Even if they need to separate themselves from the base on some issues, they should publicly respect the base and never attack it.  "I don't always agree with my colleagues, but they care about others, are passionate in what the believe in and are good people."

2) Candidate may not be a shrill for corporations.  

Duh.  Its us against the corporations.

3) Promote the idea that government can work

You can run against current government, backroom deals, corporate money in government and so on -- reformists are welcome! -- but you can't claim government is the problem.

Anyone agree or disagree with this?  What else?  Who are the best examples out there today?


Very Good (4.00 / 2)
I think it's important to let such candidates emerge organically, rather than try to impose pre-conceptions (it's why I think we need to let progressive Southerners take the lead in shaping their own politics), but at the same time we do need to set some basic standards, which I think you've done a pretty good job of doing here.

I'm not sure what else should be added, just at the moment, but it's certainly worthy of more thought.  If you want to turn this comment into a diary to spur this discussion, I'll be happy to front-page it.  Email me if you decided to (address on my user page).

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Very useful (0.00 / 0)
As Kos now calls for the rehiring of Dean as DNC head, we need a better understanding of the 50-state strategy.  We need a better sense of what a "progressive" actually is.  I cannot be a litmus test of every issue.

And yet every element of the coalition must feel enough to be committed to it.

Are these non-negotiable demands or nice to haves?  Or perhaps a weakened version of same

1.  For immediate implementation of gay marriage and repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell.

2.  For immediate passage of EFCA.

3.  For immediate withdrawal from Iran and Afghanistan.

4.  For immediate end of Bush's War on Terror.

5.  For repeal of Hyde Amendment and complete acceptance of women's right to choose.

6.  Overturn of Citizen's United as a litmus test for Supreme Court.

Etc.  It is obvious that no viable candidate would score even close to 100% at this time.  Yet it has not been uncommon for various elements of the coalition to demand fealty to their issue.

Your less demanding list, though, sounds like a good starting point.

I think it has some consequences that need to be discussed, primarily, respect for other members of the group, which means I think a very low if not zero tolerance for either Rahm Emanuel-like diatribes against the left AND (more controversial here) "Veal Pen" analyses.



sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
This is good (0.00 / 0)
My inclination is jobs (and safety net), peace, and civil liberties.  But I'm going for 3, like bread, land and peace.

For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. -- Dylan

[ Parent ]
#3 is too shallow and short-term (0.00 / 0)
and, as the "withdrawal" from Iraq has shown, easily gamed.

I suggest a more basic approach. Agree to follow the Constitution and demand/write/debate and vote on an actual declaration of war in all future and current uses of US military force. These are all national offices we're talking about.

Does the AUMF passed for Iraq and Afghanistan cover the drones in Pakistan and Yemen?

Or maybe you include all that in #4?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
"3) Promote the idea that government can work" is a must (0.00 / 0)
and in theory, not just for progressives - for Democrats period.

As for the issues, I agree that for the most part social/cultural issues should be de-emphasized.  Not only are they arguably not as important in people's day-to-day lives, but IMO in the long run social/cultural issues tend to take care of themselves, in the sense that the American people always gravitate towards more personal freedoms.  On economic issues though, the power of corporate/special interests has to be fought at every turn.

There might be certain economic issues that we can give progressives in conservative areas some leeway on.  For example, I can understand if a WV liberal is not sold on carbon emission regulation.  As long as their general instincts about the need for action on climate change are right and they're trying to work on changing public opinion in their area, that's good.

I don't know how far this kind of clemency can extend.  For example, in theory progressives in richer areas should be "allowed" to support keeping the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, but I don't feel entirely comfortable about that.


[ Parent ]
A good move! (4.00 / 2)
I find this quite moving.  So let's both set aside Dump Obama for a while.

A few points:

the way forward to fill those seats with progressives hasn't been this wide open since just after the 1994 elections, when there was nothing remotely close to the level of activist organization that we've got today.

The "wide open" part is certainly clear.  I'm not so sure about the "level of activist organization that we've got today" part I'm not so sure about.  The most disturbing part of the healthcare fight was the devastating effect it had on the progressive movement, such as it was.  We were told by "our" progressive leaders, in the final innings, that we couldn't put forward any position that didn't already have a senatorial sponsor, or that wouldn't have the 60 votes.  The terrain of struggle shrank daily if not hourly.

Signs of devastation?  (1) The bill was rammed down our throats, Stupak and all, with a promise that we'd make it better.  So what's the last we've heard on the "make it better" front?  (Yes, I know "better" can't pass, but still, the silence is deafening.)  (2) The next big thing was to be jobs.  No leadership for any kind of direct jobs creation came out of Congress or the White House, and the left had virtually nothing to say.

The point is, do we orient to falling in line behind the best that the Dem establishment offers, or do we begin to put forth demands in our own name?  I find an implication in what you write that you are wanting us to speak in our own name.  You write:

Being old enough to remember Ted Kennedy's primary challenge to Carter in 1980, I know there is simply no comparable liberal figure for progressive activists to rally around.  Equally important, everyone in the party knows that as well.

To me, the most wrenching moment in the whole healthcare debacle was Kucinich's capitulation.  As I understand it, his bottom line was that he was willing to go down in flames personally, on a matter of principle, but he feared that he could become a rallying point for others.

The question then is, if no leader will carry forth our banner, how do we advance it ourselves?  To actually do what you call for, I believe it calls for a brutal wrenching free of the myriad threads tying us to the party establishment.  There's the whole history of fiery young radicals being ground into powder and being spit out as tired old hacks.  There's the whole chorus of "won't it endanger ..." at our every move.  You look to the various progressive organizations, but they all became enmeshed during the healthcare debacle, with very few exceptions (Hamsher stands out as an exception here).

Suppose the progressive establishment doesn't take up your call?  What is the critical mass for moving forward in the absence?

Still, you write:

an organized effort to recruit dozens of progressive House candidates is something else again.  It's far more credible, given what we've already accomplished in the past.  And it carries with it an implicit threat of splitting the party if Obama goes too far in compromising with implacable enemies.  (The theory here is simple: A credible implicit threat is more credible and meaningful than a non-credible explicit threat.)

You give me hope.  I would just add that -- in order to make the "implicit" threat credible -- sometimes it takes carrying out a non-credible explicit threat.

For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. -- Dylan


I Think It's A DIfferent Ballgame (4.00 / 1)
The legislative dynamic was one we were unprepared for, and had no real idea of how to interact with effectively.  This is not the case regarding campaigns.

This is not to dismiss the issues you raise out of hand.  They are serious and need to be treated as such.  But we (fortunately) can't assume that the limitations we faced in that legislative arena will automatically limit us in fighting to elect a new wave of progressive legislators.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
If you can move this forward ... (0.00 / 0)
I'll back you within my meager powers.

Call it the Half-Court Press?

:>)

For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. -- Dylan


[ Parent ]
I thought of you, jeffroby, (4.00 / 2)
when I read this article: http://www.commondreams.org/vi...

You could drop "Dump Obama", which is unnecessarily antagonistic to his supporters, and have a primary too.

Consequently, a key organizing principle of a progressive primary has to be something that many may find at first counterintuitive: it must not be directed against President Obama.

Instead, the primary thrust of a progressive primary should be the need for decisive federal action to boost economic growth and employment.
...
Note that this wouldn't necessarily require progressive organizations to make a candidate endorsement; it would only require them to take seriously the idea of a presidential primary as an organizing, education and mobilization opportunity: a 50-state Town Hall for Democrats.

The idea is to put progressive issues front and center in the 2012 election and could work alongside recruiting progressives to fill house seats, which I agree is a crucial effort.  Problem is, where to find a compelling candidate more interested in pushing a progressive agenda than winning the prize?


[ Parent ]
I don't want to re-ignite the debate at this moment ... (0.00 / 0)
... because I want to see how certain things play out.  I'm not in any way dropping it.

I have no problem supporting Paul's plan.  Personally, I see them as reinforcing each other.  Paul would surely disagree.

But let's agree where we can.

For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. -- Dylan


[ Parent ]
I support both ideas (4.00 / 2)
More strongly in favor of the congressional primaries as an actual plan that could be initiated. Whether and how such an idea gets off the ground is another question.

I think its a good thing that the idea that Obama might face a primary challenge from the left be floated and discussed in a positive way so that it actually registers within the "bubble" that contains him. Whether one actually gels, i.e. finds a viable candidate, is another matter.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
"unnecessarily antagonistic to his supporters" (0.00 / 0)
if you currently support Obama, you deserve nothing but antagonism

[ Parent ]
What they "deserve" is not the point (0.00 / 0)
How to get what you want is.  I think an aggressive anti-Obama campaign would be terribly divisive, which is why I liked the subtlety of Robert Naiman's approach.  Besides, if Obama tacks left in response to public opinion, well and good; if he doesn't, I don't think he'll be electable and it's important to have someone prepared to step in.

[ Parent ]
how about links to a progressive organization in such diaries? perhaps the front-page? (0.00 / 0)
like PCCC?

How can we not take advantage of this opportunity?

... you can donate time/money, attend meeting at the link here


Your idea of a "credible explicit threat" seems too narrow (0.00 / 0)
Also, what is "credible" a year from now depends on what is done now, and, in particular, how bold that something is. IMO, if progressives take a year to create an electoral hit list, they will have failed to seize the moment.

You need a few good villains, and those villains need to have D's after their names, not R's. You already have an abundance of villains with R's after their names. However, the R villains are NOT sufficient - correct?

Here's another variation of ideas put forth in  Recommended Short and Long Term Voting Strategies for the Dump Obama Movement. A D electoral hit list can be deployed via the following strategy: Progressives are urged to abandon Democrats at the state level in the states that are home to the 10% worst Democratic Senators, and the districts of the 10% worst Democratic Representatives.

The explicit, but conditional threat is made to eventually target the bad Dems at the federal level in the above-mentioned states and districts when there is a "sufficient" level of success in organizing the revolt at the state level. I don't believe it's necessary (or even particularly wise) to specify what "sufficient" means, exactly. The American revolution had a Declaration of Independence that preceeded a Constitution by 11 years. Details of a Democratic Party revolution can be worked out later, but there ain't gonna be a DP revolution if there's no DP Declaration of Independence.

Basically, I'm suggesting modifying the proposals in Recommended Short and Long Term Voting Strategies for the Dump Obama Movement such that dumping Dems at the state level is limited to the homes of the worst Dem incumbents.

If progressives are too much of Democratic lemmings, or too afraid of the Big Bad Republicans to manage even that (say, without the Dump Obama element), maybe they should consider emigrating to Canada... I'd say that they're just too pathetically weak, and deserve the weak 'leadership' that the Veal Pen and Democratic Party pros provide them.  

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