Who's Your Daddy??? Questioning vs. Reinforcing CW #2 (The Political Duality of Rep v. Dem Pt 6b)

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 18:33


In my last diary, I drew a distinction between "cultural hegemony" and "conventional wisdom", with reference to how they function in terms of Kegan's model of cognitive development:

Conventional wisdom can be thought of as the rationalization of specifc roles and relationsihps [things which define the Level 3 self], while hegemony is the rationalization of the entire level three subject of realm-the totality of all roles and relationships.  The way that one moves from Level 3 to Level 4 is not by one big jump, but by gradually becoming aware of of specific roles and relationships-at first, only in specific situations, then gradually more generally, and finally as part of a larger structure that eventually encompasses all of Level 3-at which time you have evolved to full Level 4 consciousenss.

I'm now going to turn my attention to something that has a bit of the character of both--that is, the myth of the GOP as the "Daddy Party."  I'm going to start with the more concrete, specific aspects of this, which are more in the way of conventional wisdom--that the GOP is the party of "real men," while the Democrats have nothing but "girly-men."

In one sense, this is a very broad notion, more on the order of hegemony.  But when you see it specifically invoked, enacted or represented in various concrete instances, it is much more like conventional wisdom.  Certainly, the idea that Bush--who ducked out on his National Guard service--was more of a man and more of a warrior than Kerry, who had gone to war and won a number of medals, was a very concrete piece of conventional wisdom.

Because the myth of the "Daddy Party" has this dual character, it is particularly useful to take on.  What's more, it's very much in the news lately, with heightened attention to Hillary Clinton's gender, Obama's play to black homophobia, and increased attention to the military policy, Iraq and the "war on terror."  I'm going to touch on some of these issues in future diaries, but in this diary, I want to focus specifically on the notion of "real men," and just how phony the Republicans are.

Paul Rosenberg :: Who's Your Daddy??? Questioning vs. Reinforcing CW #2 (The Political Duality of Rep v. Dem Pt 6b)
The Chickenhawk Giveaway

Perhaps the most obvious giveaway that Republicans aren't really the "daddy party" is the almost total absence of military experience in their warmongering core.  It's not that war makes you a man, though this is a myth that Republicans obviously embrace.  Rather, it's that using war to define one's manhood, and having other people do it for you is about as far away from real manhood as one could possibly get.  The term "chickenhawk" virtually exploded on the internet after 9/11 in response to the realworld explosion of chickenhawk fever, but the term goes back at least to the 1980s.  In particular, Wikipedia notes:

A notable example of this response [to conservative critics of Clinton in the 1992 campaign] was liberal satirist Al Franken's 1996 book Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot, which included a chapter called "Operation Chickenhawk." The story details the exploits of a fictional Vietnam War squad made up of Quayle, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Phil Gramm, Clarence Thomas, and George Will-all conservative Republicans who were of draft age during the Vietnam era yet did not serve in the conflict. In the story, the cowardly and incompetent squad bungles a surprise attack on a North Vietnamese Army company and ultimately extricates itself from the battle by fragging its gung-ho lieutenant, Oliver North (a conservative Republican veteran of the war).

The chickenhawk syndrome is hardly the only expression of disordered masculinity on the right, however.  It's just one of the shinnier facets.  To really grasp what's going on, we have to pass...

Beyond The Valley of the Chickenhawks

The other side of war and fear of war is fear of peace.  Fear of being still with oneself.  This is particular terrifying for men, Stephen Ducat argues in his book, The Wimp Factor: Gender Gaps, Holy Wars, and the Politics of Anxious Masculinity.  It's a fascinating book, full of insight, but the essence of what's needed for my argument here was laid out in his answers to the first two questions in an Alternet interview :

What is the central thesis of your book?

First let me throw out the term "femiphobia" as a way of naming this anxiety. Femiphobia is the male fear of being feminine. The underlying premise of my book is that the most important thing about being a man is not being a woman. This imperative to be repudiate everything feminine - whether it's external or internal - is played out as much in politics as in personal life.

In politics - where there is an enormous potential for personal gain or ruin - what this leads to is a concerted effort on the part of candidates to disavow the feminine in themselves, and to project it on to their opponents.

That was the central function of the Republican National Convention. Once you got past the moderate sweet talk, the purpose was essentially to make John Kerry their woman. There were a variety of subtle and not-so-subtle code words in this attempt to feminize him. This is a strategy that Republicans have long employed. They've just been more brazen about it lately.

In the book, you argue that this anxiety about the feminine defines not just American politics but has been a part of the history of Western culture.

The problem with our current notion of masculinity is that it's a definition of manhood based on domination. The problem with definition of manhood based on domination is that domination can never be a permanent condition. It's a relational state - it is dependent on having somebody in the subordinate position, which means that you may be manly today, but you're not going to be manly tomorrow, unless you've got somebody to push around and control. This definition goes back to the ancient Greeks, and it makes masculinity a precarious and brittle achievement - which has to be constantly asserted. It has to be proven over and over again. It is the ultimate Sisyphean pursuit.

It has characterized politics going all the way back to the ancient Greeks. They had their own version of the "wimp factor." The worst thing an ancient Greek politician could be accused of is being a binoumenos, which loosely translated means "fucked male." Manhood for the ancient Greeks - just as it is for us - was a difficult and transient achievement. It wasn't the gender that you had sex with that determined your masculinity, but what position you occupied in a relationship of domination. If you were penetrated, you were rendered essentially a woman. If you were the penetrator, then you were the man. In a way, we still hold that definition.

The larger context for this, I would argue, is the emegence of agricultural societies with large surpluses, which corresponds with the emergence of the first signs of war in human pre-history.  As William Ury argues in Getting to Peace, prior to that our competitive urges were generally trumped by our cooperative side.  It was only with the development of large, hierarchical social structures that the balance tipped the other way.  Those who dominate are able to extort and exploit the fruits of continued cooperative behavior of the rest of society, and thus there is an extreme premium on domineering behavior.

However, Ury argues that the pendulum is swinging back toawrd cooperation, and has been doing so for several centuries now-primarily due to the increased role of knowledge and information since the invention of the printing press, since this shifts us toward a cooperative logic, in which advances benefitting the large mass of society tend to predominate over those benefitting only the few.  This is anything but a smooth or easy transition, but Ury argues persuasively that it is well under way, and the major peacefully transitions of recent decades-most notably, the end of the Cold War, and the abolition of apartheid in South Africa-are a good indication that non-violent conflict resolution has indeed come a long way in a seemingly very short time.

But if the flow of information in general is a transforming force moving us in the direction of greater cooperation, and undermining the logic of domination, there is no guarantee that this must always be the case.  Indeed, hierarchical control of information is all the more understandible as a process of social control when we see it as a move directly countering the natural logic of information.  And this offers yet another perspective on the significance of hegemony, conventional and the material structures (tv networks, telecom companies, etc.) that help sustain them.

It's important to note that there is a general congruence of many different sense of "penetration."  It's not just a physical sexual act.  The power to control and dominate is intimately related to means of penetration-insight into how things work is necessary to alter or control them.  Physical penetration into the inner workings is usually necessary to bring this about.  Physical invasion of another's space is needed to establish dominance and control.  And so forth.

Penetration and Analysis

It's worth noting that Bush Sr. was famously fearful of being analyzed, of efforts to penetrate his thinking:  "don't put me on the couch," he said on more than one occassion.  Bush Jr. is similarly fearful, but much more aggressive in his manner of resistence.  When his oppositon to fully funding SCHIP as Governor of Texas was briefly brought up during the 2000 campaign, he struck back hard, saying that no one but God could judge what was in his heart.

This is part of a more general resistence to analysis that pervades the conservative movement, and with it the Republican Party as well.  Several different factors converege here, actually, above and beyond the underlying femiphobic fear of being penetrated..  Most significantly  (1) the disbelief in analysis as a source of useful knowledge is deep-seated on the right (science [bad] asks questions, religion [good] gives answers), (2) analysis is strongly associated with their enemies on the left, (3) analysis for the purpose of maintaining power and dominance is the exception, and there is a strong  desire to control such analysis as thoroughly as possible.

All this serves to reinforce the tendency on the right to develop simple messages and repeat them ad nauseum, which in turn greatly strengthens their hegemonic discourse.  They repeat endlessly that they are the Christian Right, and everyone believes them-despite the fact that there is very little about them that Jesus would recognize as his own teachings.  Similarly, the entire ediface of the "daddy party" is built on repetetive insistence, rather than reality.  Republicans are not particularly competent at any of the male-gendered tasks of government.  They're not great leaders in war, their economc record pales comparted to that of Democrats, and they're generally quite hostile to science.  Yet, they repeatedly insist on their daddy status, and they get away with it because of a lack of penetrating analysis, and a public discourse to match.

Of course, this is changing on the internet, where discourse in general is far more penetrating, where feedback loops are everywhere and feedback times are short.  It's our job to drive that change further.

On the other hand, liberals and Democrats are subject to constant criticism, constant "penetrating" analysis in the sense of analysis intended to poke holes in what Democrats affirm.  It matters not whether what is said is true or not, the point is to attack and dominate.  I will return to these points in future diaries.  But for now it's simply worth noting that when someone like Barack Obama comes along and echoes rightwing criticism of Democrats-attacking unnamed secular liberals as hostile to religion, for example-they are aligning with a truly vast and sweeping dynamic, the full extent of which they almost certainly have no idea.  It would be quite different if left and right played by the same rules, but the difference in the rules is central to the difference between right and left.

The GOP/Authoritarian Daddy Thing

Last August, Sara at Orcimus wrote a very insightful diary that's highly relevant here, Leering Old Men: Another Take.  She was responding to two other diaries, one by Digby, and the other by Orcinus founder David Neiwert.  The diary begins:

As Dave discusses in a post below, Digby thinks the conservatives are a bunch of whining babies who can't take a loss. Dave responds with the observation they're leering old men who can't get it up any more. Both views suggest that our national corps of conservative talking heads, taken as a group, has a very warped relationship with masculinity. But I've got a third take on it, which sort of takes in both their arguments and then goes a little deeper.

Over the years, my online ex-fundie community has spent a lot of time puzzling over the ways in which fundamentalism arrests the moral, social, emotional, intellectual, and sexual development of anyone who embraces it. (And I could argue that, inasmuch as fundamentalism is authoritarian religion, this observation may well hold true for political and social authoritarians as well.) Specifically, we've come to a consensus that the belief system traps people somewhere around the age of five or six -- and keeps them there for as long as they continue to believe.

In fact, that naivete -- deceptively packaged as purity and innocence -- is one of the main things people are seeking when they're drawn into authoritarian systems.

What Sara is talking about here is Kegan's Stage 1.  I haven't talked about it much because it doesn't figure much in the creation of political policy discourse.  Authoritarian followers mostly just regurgitate what is feed to them, and this usually comes from Level 2 regressions from the Level 3 vantage point at which conservatives normally functioned before being subject to the stress of the modern world.  However, this doesn't mean that this level isn't politically significant.  Indeed, the name-calling that runs constantly throughout rightwing political discourse is deeply rooted in this level-as well as the even more primative Level 0, although that's beyond the scope of the present discussion.  Remember that I said before that Level 2 is characterized by durable categories.  Level 1 is not.  It is much more fluid.  And the struggle to maintain order is fierce indeed for those who should have outgrown this stage long ago.

Skipping a little, Sara continues:

Unfortunately, seeking this regression means giving up on quite a few of the most important attributes of adulthood. First, there's the intellectual sacrifice. There's a huge cognitive leap that occurs around the age of seven (it usually comes in right alongside reading fluency) that enables a far greater level of abstraction -- typically, at the expense of magical thinking, which drops off dramatically once kids learn to read. At this age, kids give up fantasy play and Santa Claus in favor of a more empirical approach to life, and more serious pursuits leading to the mastery of adult-world skills. Developmental psychologists call this leap "the age of reason."

Indeed, the transition to Level 2 has been recognized by Catholic and other moral teaching traditions for thousands of years, as was the even more widely recognized transition to Level 3 in the form of initiation rights that mark the transition to adulthood.

The whole diary is incredibly rich with insight, and it just won't do to quote the whole thing.  But what comes next is really crucial, because Sara connects this regression with right-wing authoritarianism (RWA):

Right-wing authoritarian (RWA) followers have little use for reason; but are very invested in their fantasy lives. They take myth and metaphor absolutely literally, because interpreting them requires a level of abstraction they aren't comfortable with. In other words: they are voluntarily choosing to operate at the intellectual processing level of a first-grader.

They also have to give up on adult-level emotional functioning (which, as I mentioned, may be welcomed as something of a relief after adult life has blown up under you a few times). Authoritarian followers crave someone who will keep things ordered and safe, someone who will provide and protect and set firm rules and boundaries; someone all-powerful and all-knowing who can teach you right from wrong and keep the harsh parts of the world at bay. Someone, in short, who looks like Daddy looked when you were about five years old.

RWAs would far rather curl up in Daddy's lap -- even if it means abandoning reason and taking the occasional spanking -- than try to deal with the world by themselves, on adult terms. This is also why RWA family and community relationships (as Lakoff has explained) are necessarily hierarchical.

Oaky, okayu, I've got to stop quoting.  Here's a little synopsis, instead.  This regressed stage of development requires authorities setting the rules and enforcing them.  But it's also at the threashold of oncoming control, it's the age at which kids spend a great deal of time and energy focused on rules.  Sara then notes that this is also the age of "over-the-top behavior around masculine gender roles."  (I got a Davy Crockett costume for Christmas at about this age, for example.)  This is why, she notes, the male Kewl Kids are so gaga over Bush playing out these roles for them:

The fact that so many mainstream and conservative media guys are suckered by this posturing shows that they don't really have a clue about what a Real Man looks like -- though, somewhere deep down inside, they're pretty sure they don't qualify. That's why they're so easily wowed by men who can put on the costume and make it look good.

And now, the KEY point:

But they're even more easily cowed by men who can actually fill the boots. John Kerry. John McCain. Colin Powell. Bill Clinton. (You don't have to agree with their politics; but nobody can say these men haven't comfortably worn the full measure of male power and responsibility for some critical stretch of their lives.) Like little boys, the media guys are so awed by the outward forms of masculinity that they eagerly make a fetish out of them; but they also actively fear and resent men who display the authentic internal goods that make an honest-to-God man. These guys' very presence incites such a strong sense of personal inadequacy that the Boys On The Bus can only resort to attacking them in ways that are openly calculated to feminize them -- that is, to bring them down to their own level. He look French. He's whipped by his powerful wife. He's preoccupied with his hair. Translation: This guy has more balls and more maturity than we do -- and we need to take him down before everybody figures out how inadequate that makes us feel.

This is so profoundly important, that I just want to end my diary here.  The bottom line of all the constant feminizing attacks on Democrats is that they are pre-emptive strikes meant to drive away examples of real male competence, which is endlessly threatening to the Versailles punditocracy and their rightwing masters.

I have only two quick points to add:

(1) This provides another angle on the point of this whole series.  The dynamic that Sara is talking about is directly parallel to the way that the policy competence of liberalism operating at Level 4 drives conservatives into making pre-emptive strikes on "character," "loyalty," etc.  Liberals and Democrats do not respond in kind partly because it just seems too incredibly juvenile to take seriously.  And that's true.  But it's not too juvenile to put a stop to.

(2) There is a general principle here worth naming, so that we can communicate it to others.  When rightwingers and Versailles pundits who are gender insecure pre-emptively attack Democrats to feminize them (or attack Democratic women to both hyper-feminize and de-feminize them), we need to be very clear that they are talking about themselves.  And so, we need to make a label for this. 

My initial suggestion--just to get the ball rolling really--is "counter-talk," as in what they are talking about is directly counter to what is actually going on--specifically with them.

Linguistically the term is similar to "contradiction," which could be good or bad.  But I'd be happy to have someone come up with a better word.  The point is, it is so important that we need something to name it, to nail it down, and to begin holding people accountable with it in a much more economical way than we've been able to do up to now.


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History (0.00 / 0)
From the vantage point of the long sweep of history what we may be seeing now is the last(?) reaction to the emancipation of women. For whatever reason many European countries have been able to make the transition to a more equitable society while the US still lags behind.

All the major Western European countries have had female leaders or credible candidates for high office already. Even some developing countries have done so, even while their domestic arrangements remain male dominated.

The US has been resisting for decades, but the line in the sand has constantly been retreating. Women now exist in substantial numbers in such professions as medicine and law. Even symphony orchestras have adapted (although there is still only one prominent conductor). The clergy is another area where change has been in evidence.

I have a theory which states that women can move into a profession when it is no longer "desirable". The high status professions these days are in finance and big business and the number of women in top positions remains insignificant. Perhaps public office is where the transition is currently taking place. This may make sense if there is a revulsion against the autocratic trend of the past 50 years and the power of congress and the president is limited by new legislation. Without the unbridled power the autocratic men may look for other areas.

Policies not Politics


We Are REALLY Politically Backward (4.00 / 1)
Look how long ago Golda Meir and Indira Ghandi were leading their countries.  That's all you really need to know to realize how backwards we are here in the US.

Of course, the Europeans were aided in part by having much more democratic electoral systems, with the widespread use of proportional representation.  Women candidates have done much better under proportional representation systems than running head-to-head against men.

I have a theory which states that women can move into a profession when it is no longer "desirable".

Actually, I think it works both ways, but that the primary influence is the other way around.  For example, as more and more women became doctors, the power and prestige of the profression declined (rather ironically, since medicine has advanced quite rapidly at the same time, and women doctors of today are able to do a hell of a lot more for their patients than the male doctors of 40 years ago).  It's not just a matter of gender, since the rise of untrammeled corporate power is at the expense of the professions as well as workers, consumers and citizens, and this has taken place at the same time as women have increasingly entered the professions.  But it's certainly part of the mix.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
chasing the men (0.00 / 0)
Another great posting, Paul. Just after reading it I was going through the book chat on Firedoglake.com with Greg Anrig, whose book sounds pretty impressive on the subject on going on the offensive about the radioactivity of "conservative" post-Bush. I was fairly impressed with his energy and optimism (he's a bit more bullish than I am about the money question, pointing to the deeper pockets of the Center for American Progress as a progressive riposte to the right wing think tank proliferation) but came across this passage which piqued my interest after just reading your essay above:

  Greg Anrig wrote (copied from Firedoglake.com): "As I was writing my book, I had in mind every step of the way my father-in-law, who is an old-style Eisenhower Republican. He was a businessman who is annoyingly hostile to labor unions, for example, but also believes in good government. I wanted to make a case like a prosecuter who would convince someone like my father-in-law that the conservative movement, by way of the Republican Party, had done enormous damage to the government and the country in the process. So there's a lot of detail conveyed to really try to build case after case about the damage done, so that people like him would get it."

I feel fairly ambivalent about this idea, even though in some ways it's exactly what needs to happen: outreach, argument, literally a shift of the discourse through changing people's minds, ie the very opposite of preaching to the choir. But there was something about Anrig's assertion of this figure (even if it was based in the reality of his family) of the gruff, older, middle-class, semi-rightwing businessman (presumably, though I'm projecting obviously, white and Christian) as the ultimate audience for the conversation. In other words, we need to convince the Big Daddy in whatever image he's presenting himself. I wonder if this construction gives away the power before even opening the argument by a) inflating the importance of this statistically shrinking demographic while b) reinforcing the paradigm that the real imaginary Father figure IS this guy (white, Christian semi-rightwing businessman etc.) and c) granting this daddy the power of ultimate arbitration: we don't win unless he decides we do.

But to do so is for him to "get it" which immediately is a form of fantasy penetration (ideas penetrating etc.) that immediately do begin this de-pedestalization that is not unlike the feminization you're talking about. Because there is this unrealistic fantasy undergirding the Big Real Man ideal, to undermine the ideas is to replace a fantasy of potency with a fantasy of impotence. It's very dangerous and seems to be playing directly into the old framing via this impossibility.

Ultimately I think the problem is foundational in directing the argument to this 'authority' figure as if they are the arbiter, as if they are the one who needs to be convinced. But this thinking leads to a bit of a pickle, because of course one does need to be opening new dialogues and new conversations.

I remember an earlier dialogue about Lakoff's "Angry Father"/"Nurturant Parent [Mother]" where you argued with a poster who took issue with the oedipal shorthand. I tended to agree with you that it was the concept was more important than the language. But I'm seeing here how the Angry Daddy/Loving Mommy framing can get us into very dangerous ground of just the kind of issues you're talking about here. Real Men, binoumenoi, etc.

PS: regarding "countertalk", speaking of freud & oedipal shorthand, the term I think you might be looking for is projection. Though that does lack a certain punchiness.


Projection is the term (0.00 / 0)
Chris Matthews is the slavering epitome of the kind of thinking Paul describes.

Thinking of Digby's essay at TPM Cafe and the review of Susan Faludi's new book at Kos, there is a racial component in the sense of male inadequacy that has seemingly been with us since the white settlement of what is now the US.

The fact that so much about conservatism goes on at a level below reason makes it very difficult for progressives to counter.  We can't use reason on conservative followers, and the Digby essay I linked to shows why economic self-interest is a losing argument in parts of the country where the dislike of minorities trumps economic self-interest.  Reason and shame may work on the press (you missed the equally obvious example of Al Gore, who was feminized I think because his smarts were threatening), who engage in such damaging story lines, but not on voters.

On another subject, one thing I think made a big difference in the '60s and '70s was the way popular culture reinforced our values rather than their values (which led to the so-called culture wars).  We need more examples on TV and in movies and other forms of popular culture of a positive masculinity, maybe more like the "anti-hero" of the Humphrey Bogart characters.  He was the hero of my generation.  Now popular culture just contributes to the general decline and conversion of people from citizens to consumers that is sucking the life from the civic realm.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
More Than Projection (0.00 / 0)
Sorry not to respond earlier, but I thougt it would take too long too do it right, and I wanted to finish the new diary I've just posted (which I thought I could finish at least an hour earlier).  Returning to it now, I find myself thinking I could have responded a lot more concisely, and hope to do so herewith:

Let me begin at the end.  I'm very familiar with projection, and I've been writing about it for years.  But what I'm trying to capture here is more than just the underlying mechanism, but also the how and why of its political usage.  I clearly need to define this more clearly, and it wouldn't help to think a bit more before I write about it again.

Now, from the top.  First off, I think that what Greg Anrig is doing is valuable, even though I agree with the points you raise.  It's clearly a useful strategy, but not a basket to put all our into.  It helps for an author to have a specific person they are writing for, and it can give focus and power to a work, even in reaching very different people.

This is not to discount the issues that you raise.  But it is to say that I think they are more important in general than they are with this particular book.  Indeed, I would argue that what we need in responding to the phantom construct that is ever-more non-existent, while morphing into its deranged crazy-uncle doppleganger [run-on sentence much?] is a wide-ranging diversiy of discursive strategies, ranging all the way from such sobber, daddy-oriented policy wonk fare to the satire of Stephen Colbert and the subversive rap of "Boots" Riley and The Coup.

Finally, I love your morphing of Lakoff's "Strict Father" into "Angry Father."  It sooooo captures the flavor of all that's happened since Lakoff introduced the term back in 1996.  But the point of all the above really is that real men do do nurturance, and do it in a really big way.  It's precisely the difference between teenage swagger and adult substance that scares the Kewl Kids so.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
At the risk of stating the obvious ... (0.00 / 0)
... but when has that ever stopped me?

Obvious but it just dawned on me.  Your posts like this one have a thin veneer of being framed in terms of the struggle against the Republicans on various issues (Daddy Party, Chickenhawks).  But substantively, they go far beyond the electoral struggle.

On what I consider my better days (and this may or may not be the case with you, I wouldn't presume to guess), my framework begins with Empire and Multitude (I consider Hardt and Negri the best political thinkers out there) and the day-to-day electoral shenanigans fall into place around that.

If OpenLeft stepped out of the Republican/Democrat paradigm completely, of course, there would be a lot of nervous breakdowns.  But I think it could be challenged (not exploded) a bit more explicitly.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


Right! (4.00 / 1)
The Democratic Party is an incredibly important institutional power nexus in the larger battle between authoritarianism and populist autonomy.  But it is a site of struggle, not even remotely wholly on the side of the angels.

While people who start from a position of naive belief may be disillusioned into bitterness and abandon or attack the party, this strikes me as stemming from a persistent failure to realistically assess the nature of the struggle we're engaged in.  Such realism is not the same as accepting the moral legitimacy of the existing order, or agreeing to a compromise of principles, as many seem to think.  Personally, I have spent very little time as a party activist compared to the amount of time I've spent as an issue activist.  I have no problem with people spending zero time as party activists.  But when people step over the line, to actively trying to damage the party, heedless of how this damages the necessary long-term collaboration of issue-centered and party-centered activism, that's when I start to have a problem.

This doesn't mean that I would always condemn third-party activism, particularly on the local level.  But anything the needless divides progressives is bad for us, and that includes attacks on the party that are framed in ways that make progressive Democrats one of the bad guys.  Ralph Nader and Peter Camejo are two prominent exmples of Green/Independent figures who repeatedly do this, sometimes with great venom, despite the fact they also present valid and compelling analyses that I agree with on other scores.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You've laid down the gauntlet (4.00 / 1)
But anything that needlessly divides progressives is bad for us, and that includes attacks on the party that are framed in ways that make progressive Democrats one of the bad guys.

I'm a staunch supporter of independent politics.  But what "independent politics" means isn't as clear as some might think.

My starting point is that we are faced with a corrupt two-party SYSTEM, and that non-affiliated voters (not the same as independents but heavily overlapping) -- the largest bloc in American electoral politics -- have a more (woes of late-stage capitalism, whatever) or less (all politicians are crooks) gut understanding of this.

How to harness this force (or its best elements), and not violate the terms you have outlined, is the key question for progressives both independent and Democrat.  Not just an interesting question.  Not, gee, it would be nice if ...  It has to be answered.

I keep threatening to write a diary on this, maybe it's about time I took another shot at it.  Within a week.  I promise.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
I Disagree (0.00 / 0)
But it really requires a lot more room than a comment allows to do full justice to the reasons why.

The short version is that I think you romantically misconstrue the nature of independent voters and the political possibilities they represent.  But I respect your views enough to think this warrants a serious discussion all on its own.  So I've put that on my to-do list.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Maybe GOP is the Daddy Party ... (0.00 / 0)
because Daddy really was a bullying, ignorant drunk?

Seventies era feminist speaking. :-)

Can it happen here?


That's Not MY Daddy! (0.00 / 0)
is the obvious comeback, one might think.

Sixties era feminist speaking.

(One reason Susan Faludi's Stiffed is so important is that it revives and popularizes the 1960s radical feminist perspective that men are as much--though not equally and in the same ways--victims of patriarchy as women are.)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Wordsmithing... (0.00 / 0)
I'd like to use a more colorful term of art to describe the concept you're calling by the name 'counter-talk' here.  I'd like to see us use something like "codpiece sniffing" for example.

I understand that you want to call attention to the link between deprecating the target's masculinity (whether the target is male or female) and the deprecator's own anxiety about the inadequacy of their masculinity (also, regardless of the deprecator's gender).  I think referring to the tactic as "codpiece sniffing" does this at a sensual level, and it unifies the two forms of this behavior nicely.

When Chris Matthews goes non-linear about George Bush in his flight suit or about John Edwards and his beauty regimen, these are both examples of Matthews' codpiece sniffing.  In the former case, Matthews is intoxicated with delight by what he smells, and in the latter case, he's turned off by it.  The common element is that it's essentially an unsavory and weird activity for a macho straight-guy to be doing- going around sniffing codpieces and comparing the odors in public.

I mean, come on Chris- it's really okay if you want to be codpiece sniffer in the privacy of your own bedroom, but is that really how you want the rest of us to decide who's a better candidate for public office?


I Like It, But... (0.00 / 0)
It's definitely a good suggestion, but I'm not sure it's everything we're after.  Like I said, I think I have to give this some more probing thought.  But I definitely think this is a good contribution to getting us where we want to go.

It certainly deserves a place in the lingo, but it's more about what's going on inside Chris's head I want soemthing that covers the social dynamic it seeks to promote as well.  Or something like that.  Like I said, more cogitation required on my part.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


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