Progressive Distractions: Dennis Kucinich

by: Matt Stoller

Thu Dec 06, 2007 at 18:37


I admit that I don't really understand why Kucinich is running for President.  He's certainly not banking on winning.

Dennis Kucinich may be traveling around the country campaigning for president, but the six-term congressman is planning for his re-election at home.

Kucinich, who was in Iowa Tuesday for an NPR-sponsored debate among Democratic presidential candidates, has already told the Cuyahoga County Democratic Party that he will seek another term and wants its endorsement, says party boss Jimmy Dimora.

Kucinich faces several primary opponents, though it's unlikely he'll lose.  What I'm interested in is how Kucinich, through his Presidential run and his work in Congress, builds or does not build progressive power.

The dirty secret of Democratic politics is that loyalty is rewarded unless you are a progressive.  New Democrats give to future New Democrats, and Blue Dogs give to future Blue Dogs.  Yet, with a few small exceptions, progressive caucus members don't give to future progressive caucus members.  Often, they give to front-line conservatives, or party institutions, but there are extremely limited channels for ideological money within Congress itself to go to liberals. 

This is the case with Kucinich as much as anyone; I went through his FEC reports, and in 2006, he gave $125K to the DCCC and zero to any other candidates.  For someone who calls Democratic leadership a 'total fraud', he's certainly willing to help party leaders build up their power while doing nothing to build up any alternative centers of progressive power within the caucus to challenge them.

And in his Presidential race, I don't see him building institutions of power to challenge a party leadership; in fact he came out for the Presidential debate on Fox News and called the rest of the Democrats cowards for fighting against a Republican organ of power, which shows how distant he really is from our movement.  Perhaps I'm missing something, and I'm honestly trying to understand his strategy.  He voted against SCHIP because it didn't go far enough, though he voted for the veto override.  And he was a hold-out on the supplemental because it was insufficient.  These were both cases where he tried to exert leverage.  What I don't understand is why you wouldn't use these positions as a way of framing a position and then trying to get others elected who share your values.

I admit, I think he shouldn't be on stage in the Presidential race.  He is more a distraction than a serious participant, even if what he says is often correct.  It's time to figure out how to distinguish between those with sterling voting records, like Kucinich, and those insiders willing to do the hard fundraising and political work necessary to build a functioning political machine.

Any ideas how to identify them?

Matt Stoller :: Progressive Distractions: Dennis Kucinich

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Do you see any contradictions in this statement by Matt Stoller? (4.00 / 2)
"...I think he (Kucinich) shouldn't be on stage in the Presidential race..
even if what he says is often correct."

I think it is valuable to hear someone who is a democrat speak about what is right. I think impeachment is morally right. The others won't go near the subject. Biden recently made a move in that direction, but he has yet to mention it during one of these joint appearances.

I think it is valuable for a candidate to make people aware that there should be a fight for a not-for-profit health care system. It's simple and it works. What the other candidates are offering goes nowhere near meeting the needs of the American people.

I think it is valuable to hear a candidate not go along with the "Iran is a danger" mantra. Kucinich was right about the bogus claims about Iran's "nuclear weapons program". The rest were accepting the premise at face value - a dangerous premise to accept without being presented with iron-clad proof.

When he talks, he gets my attention. Although he has his own catch phrase, "strength through peace", he speaks more spontaneously than the rest.

I would much rather hear a candidate expressing something that is "often correct" rather than the nuanced b.s. I hear from the anointed "frontrunners".

I think people who consider themselves "progressive" should be sounding the alarm at the undemocratic treatment he has received from those sponsoring the debates. I get sick when I keep hearing "Obama, Clinton, Edwards" over and over again. We should be up in arms about this, not going after Kucinich.


The president's job (0.00 / 0)
The president does more than pull a lever or push a button. He has to be a leader. That's an essential job qualification. Giving speeches and making policy decisions are only one piece  of building a movement.

I you want health care, work hard. If you want universal health care, vote for liberals.

[ Parent ]
Speaking Truth to Power (4.00 / 2)
I agree with Matt's overall assessment, but I will say that I spoke to some folks who attended the recent Heartland Forum, and the consensus was that Kucinich deserves the praise her received, and his candidacy is valuable precisely because he says VERY progressive things and doesn't care what people think about him.

Now, I agree with Matt that he doesn't do this in a smart or strategic way.  He doesn't really build power for progressives, and by adhering to an impossible purity standard, actually can sabatoge progressive change.  But for a lot of people, words matter, and Kucinich is one of only a few who is willing to say the things that they think need to be said.

Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority


[ Parent ]
How could Dennis improve? (0.00 / 0)
I don't like that he turns real issues into fringe.  How can he fix this?

[ Parent ]
Being reasonable (0.00 / 0)
Kucnich is temperamentally unwilling to compromise or negotiate in order to accomplish his policy goals.  It seems to me that he values his own purity more than he values improving our nation.  I admired his attempts at purity but do not admire his stubbornness.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


[ Parent ]
that's the question (0.00 / 0)
That's really the question and I don't know how to make it happen, or that he even can improve.

Most significantly, he could stop talking about UFOs and other batshit crazy things that he says.  That alone kills his credibility and makes the really progressive (and sane) ideas he has seem, as you say, fringe.  Even if they're not.  On the other hand, the damage here is probably done and I tend to think that the ability of DK to ever be a serious figure in Washington again is pretty much nil.  And someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that he's having a significantly harder time raising money this time around than in 2004 - so he's losing even his hardcore supporters.

Josh had an interesting idea further down thread.  If DK was actually putting people on the ground and running a REAL campaign, he would likely attract a lot of folks who have similar values. Their experience working on a Presidential would be valuable.  They'd learn a lot about how to run for office, build resumes and experience.  More progressive voices would be working within the campaign system locally.  That would be a value-added. 

Beyond that, you've already laid out some good ideas.  Get him raising and giving money and participating in political infrastructure beyond the Dtrip.  Of all people Kucinich should be about something more than himself.  While I highly respect the opinions of those who applauded him at the Heartland Forum, I always get a sense from DK that he's grandstanding and that his performances are as much about himself as they are the ideas he puts forward.  It's why he's never held any attraction for me.

Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority


[ Parent ]
Interesting (0.00 / 0)
I responded below with a more pessimistic take.

Another interesting thing I remembered, in the '04 cycle, DK raised more money and invested a fair amount of it in hiring young, idealistic, inexperienced staffers. This was arguably good from a nuts and bolts movement-building perspective.

I don't think that's happening this time around. Indeed, overall it doesn't feel like there's as much new energy coming into the system this cycle. Some of this is the bland nature of the campaign, but some of it really has to do with how these people spend their money too.

Me | My Work | Future Majority


[ Parent ]
Earning your place (4.00 / 2)
I do think that presidential candidates have to earn their position on the podium.  At the very least they need to have a strategy to win and be putting forth the effort to do so in the early states.  I think that Kucnich does add something to the debates, but wish he would add more by campaigning for president.

On the money issue, I think that part of the problem is the progressives do not in general raise as much money as more mainstream candidates.  It does not seem to me that they are hoarding lots of cash and not spending what they have.  They are not taking the time to raise it in the first place.  In part this is a good thing, they have to compromise less and have more time to spend governing.  It does lead to the problems you talk about though.

Speaking of supporting Democrats.  Obama for America is taking time away from its presidential campaign less than a month before the Iowa caucus to support Robin Weirauch for Congress in OH-05.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


Separate from the Presidential issue (4.00 / 2)
but going directly to the larger point...

If, as Pew said in 2005, liberals are the largest ideological block in the country,

and, if...

the progressive caucus is the largest caucus within the Democratic US House delegation

then, why...

isn't there a strong progressive/liberal funding and support mechanism in Congress to counter and, indeed, surpass the Blue Dog or DLC fund raising and candidate support operations?

The progressive caucus needs to organize better. Create a strategic plan. Seek and out and support progressive candidates to get elected in strongly democratic districts working your down to less likely districts.

They need a plan, an leader, and an organization.

Highlighting issues on the Presidential trail is all well and good. Getting the word out is all well and good.

But it ain't good enough.


Feingold (4.00 / 1)
Feingold has the Progressive Patriots Fund. Judging by the website, it's not very well-funded, but this seems like a noble goal:

Supporting Democrats Who Stood With Russ

In October, with your help, we identified 20 freshman House Democrats who joined Russ in his efforts to use Congress's 'power of the purse' to safely redeploy our troops out of Iraq - and who will likely face stiff challenges next year.  We asked for your help to support these candidates and the Progressive Patriots Community responded and we were able to donate $20,000 to these freshman Representatives.

In 2008, we want to continue to reward those Representatives who take the tough position on important issues and today we need your help to do that.  We must be ready to back the candidates that show the courage and conviction to end the war in Iraq, protect the Constitution and provide quality health care for all Americans.  I'm ready to stand with them if you are.

Many members of Congress typically behave in a way that seeks to avoid blame, because they perceive that there is more electoral risk in pissing people off than there is reward in doing the right thing. I guess maybe one way to prevent that would be to send cash to Reps. and Senators when they do the right thing--kind of like running a reverse Bush Dog Campaign, though I think it's good to create that negative incentive from the left as well. Maybe the two campaigns would be more effective if they were executed in tandem. It might also be useful to refine the Bush Dog campaign a little. IIRC, isn't it based off of two votes, FISA and the Iraq supplemental? Those were bad votes, but if we narrowed our focus and concentrated our resources on either pressuring the worst of the Bush Dogs/Blue Dogs/Boll Weevils, or at least the ones who are worst for their district, maybe that would start turning some more heads.


What do you consider not well funded? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Production value (0.00 / 0)
The website could have looked a little cleaner

[ Parent ]
re: The Debates (4.00 / 1)
I have long thought that Dennis is doing harm at the debates.  By constantly running as a fringe candidate, he turns everything he talks about into a fringe issue.  Impeachment a case in point.  He brings it up which is good, but it immediately is dismissed as just Dennis being Dennis, which is very bad.  He has a role to play but it is not President. 

I don't understand what you're saying. (0.00 / 0)
If the issues that Dennis raises are important, as I believe they are, it is the fact that what he says is dismissed that is bad. You seem to fault Dennis for raising these issues rather than the obnoxious elitists who "moderate" these joint appearances and pay no attention to what he is saying. These "moderators" should all lose their jobs based on the way that they do not give equal time to all of the participants. Who elected them? If Kucinich were given equal time to speak he would not only not be "fringe", he would wipe the floor with the likes of Obama, Clinton and Edwards.

The only reason he is considered "fringe" is that he is the only one bringing up substantive issues. For this he has been rewarded by being suppressed by practically all of the media - including blogs such as this one.

The other candidates are, to varying degrees, staying well within the limits imposed by the leaders of the national democratic party. They do not want to confront Bush. So they get all the money. Then they become "mainstream" and "frontrunners" - not "fringe". They stand for little and we are supposed to choose the least worst among them and be happy about it.

I"m glad Dennis is there to lend notes of reality to these undemocratic and largely uninformative displays.


[ Parent ]
Messenger (0.00 / 0)
I kind of agree with the initial comment here. If you print out the text of DK's statements, it seems great. These debates and the overall campaign have been terrible, and it feels important for someone to talk about single-payer, dismantling the war machine, impeachment, etc. However, when I watch the actual dynamic of Kucinich as he presents these, he more often than not comes off as a holier-than-thou prick.

This arguably has a detrimental effect.

I think the contrast w/Dean in the last presidential is illuminating here, in terms of how a candidate presents important ideas and what his/her campaign does in advancing them. There's a reason Dean got traction on an anti-war message and Kucinich didn't, and it wasn't about how they were treated by the media.

Me | My Work | Future Majority


[ Parent ]
A "holier-than-thou prick"? (0.00 / 0)
I can't believe you said that that is how you perceive Kucinich when he speaks truth to power in the few seconds he is allotted to do so.

He is the only one talking about a not-for-profit health care system.
He is the only one who didn't fall in line with the "Iran is building a bomb" b.s.
He is the only one who has talked about impeaching those in government who have lied to us, caused so many to be killed and trampled on the Constitution.

And you don't like his "dynamic" and call him a prick?

Let me out of here.


[ Parent ]
I'm not being mean (0.00 / 0)
I'm being honest. Different people see different things and maybe I'm wrong.

To be clear, I agree with almost all of DKs statements, but I find his presentation to be often (not always) condescending and passive-aggressive rather than positive and aspirational. Similar to Nader in many ways. This is the crux of what distinguished him and Dean in 2004.

It's a relatively common dynamic, though, and plays into a steriotypical characiture of liberals/progressives. This is why it's bad. Saying the right things in the wrong way makes the right things less popular.

As Eddy Izzard says, getting people on board with your speesh 80% how you look, 15% percent how you sound, and 5% what you say. I wish Kucinich would get some vocal coaching or something.

Me | My Work | Future Majority


[ Parent ]
Disagree (0.00 / 0)
I disagree wholeheartedly with the line of thinking that Dennis is only fringe b/c of moderators. 

Dennis, IMO, is considered "fringe" because he ostracizes himself by virtue of his own laziness.

He could be doing what Ron Paul is doing.  Yes, Paul is still being discredited as "fringe", but his ideas are getting serious discussion, he's in the debate to an extent DK is not.  And DK's ideas have for more idealogical support than Paul's.


[ Parent ]
Why is Kucinich "fringe"??? (0.00 / 0)
That's what I still don't understand. 

a) The media paint him that way

b) The party paints him that way

c) He puts himself there


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
I really, really iked the interview with some.... (0.00 / 0)
....corporatist clown talking head and Dennis's wife where they, all three, discussed the wife's tongue stud.

Yeah, that was informative as all hell.

My nickname for Rep. Kucinich is 'Dennis the Menace' I leave it to others to decide just what or who he's actually....

....menacing.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


sterling voting records? (0.00 / 0)
Considering how good Kucinich's progressive punch score is, why is his chips-are-down score so awful? He's worse than two thirds of the caucus. Often he votes against good legislation because it's not perfect -- sounds like somebody cares more about being right than doing right.

He's so ideological it's disgusting. I'm an ideological liberal, but I'll take some non-liberal legislation if it's a) better than what we've got, and b) going to make the world a better place. What about coalition building? Kucinich is a coalition of one.

Me, me, me. I'd say the way you spot the counter-productive types is by comparing them to Kucinich -- but I guess that doesn't help you much.

Progressive Change Campaign Committee


I'm with Matt on this one. (4.00 / 1)
I don't think Dennis should be on-stage at the debates either, for one simple reason.

He's not actually running for president.  He doesn't have a staff on the ground in Iowa that should be organizing people.  I'm guessing that's true in other states as well.  He's not asking people for their votes or support. 

He's "in the race" to raise what he feels are important ideological points.  I like that idea in concept, but if you're not willing to put in the time (visits) or effort (organizing on the ground), you're not advancing that set of ideological points - you're inadvertantly being a gadfly in the debates.

If you're not actually running for the office, why would you be included in the debates?  If someone can show that he's actually actively seeking votes and will play a role in the actual voting on a state-by-state basis, I'll reconsider.  But until then, I say Dennis should not be part of our party's presidential debates.


sterling voting record?? (0.00 / 0)
to claim a sterling voting record, you have to totally ignore everything he's ever done with respect to choice/abortion. 

At best, he's gone from ardent "pro-lifer" who never met a parental-notification bill he didn't like to mushy-but-useless centrist who is nominally pro-choice but continues to spout conservative talking points and keeps falling for all of the wedge issues.


well (0.00 / 0)
Good point.  And then there's his race-baiting early on in his career.

[ Parent ]
You have to have someone on stage saying extremely progressive things. (0.00 / 0)
Kucinich seems to have some personality quirks that rub lots of people the wrong way, and of course he's "not really running to win" (though no one that far left can ever get on stage, say things that are to the left of 95% of the electorate, and pretend that they're "running to win."  You can't do both of those things.)

But it's vital to have a very progressive person who isn't "running to win" and speaking in cautious code as a result, up there on stage.  Because if the far left wing of the Democratic electorate looks at our candidate field and sees absolutely no one that is speaking what they're thinking, they're going to drop out (or go Green, same thing).  If every candidate on stage is saying things like "all options on the table" that keep Tim Russert happy and keep them "electable", then these people are gonna say "The Dems are all warmongers" and become alienated and stay home.  Someone has to get up there and say "I'm a Democrat, I'm running for president, and I'm articulating your beliefs up here."  That's the only thing keeping these voters in our party.

Every time I see a Kucinich sticker on a car, I think that without Kucinich or someone else like him, that would be a Green Party sticker.  Kucinich defines the leftward edge of our Big Tent, and if we don't have that up on stage somehow then our Tent has shrunk, and that would be a huge problem.

This is worth any other costs that pertain to having a hyper-liberal on stage with our eventual nominee.


He is only 95% to the left of the candidates (0.00 / 0)
I actually think most of what Kucinich proposes is not 95% to the left of the electorate.  He  presents ideas that are supported by a majority in a lot of cases.  He is 95% to the left of the other candidates.  They all avoid many of the most publicly popular progressive positions because they are economically populist and we all know the most important people in our country are the corporations and our candidates can't do anything that might harm their BFFs in the corporate world.

Kucinich's problem is that he comes off in the media like a wacko to 95% of Americans.  The media ignores him unless he talking about UFOs or his wife's tongue stud.  The media is going lean towards portraying a true progressive as out of touch because a true progressive IS out of touch with what the media values.  That said if Hillary were really to push a true broad-based progressive agenda I really doubt the media could change America's perception of her on the policy front.  They already call her a 'liberal', so if she actually took liberal positions it would matter little and would likely help in the minds of the voting public.


[ Parent ]
The only complaint I share with you (0.00 / 0)
is his weird support of faux news.  That is why I have strayed from the myleftwing crowd.  I don't care whether he is serious the serious candidates won't bring up impeachment at all.

My blog  

Kucinich is in for the same reason Keyes is in (0.00 / 0)
This is just a guess, but it is widely held that Alan Keyes only entered the race because one can use funds raised in this campaign to pay off debts from previous ones.

Would it be surprising to think that Kucinich is in debt also from previous campaigns and needs to pay it off somehow? 

WonkoKevin


Kucinich is NOT a distraction! (4.00 / 1)
Name another presidential candidate who supports Medicare For All.  Who has been as consistent and vocal against war funding.  Who bashes "free trade" as regularly or who speaks about getting out of NAFTA and the WTO.  Who says anything about impeachment.  Of course you can't.

I will grant all the complaints about Kucinich that have been written by Matt and the commenters.  He is not perfect.  But somebody has to articulate the positions he does.  Until there is somebody better, I will vocally support him.  Come February 5 and the California primary, I will probably vote for him.


Open Left? (4.00 / 1)
Reading this blog - and especially many of the comments - I think the name of the blog should be changed to "Open Centrist" or "Open Moderate".

Missing the point (4.00 / 1)
This applies to countless other posts in this thread as well.

Nobody's problem with Kucinich is what he says are important causes.

People are upset with:
1) How he says it
2) What he _does_ to advance those causes

With (1), his form of message-delivery is often counter-productive, and with (2), well, he's just lazy.  It takes work to change policy.  Congress and our gov't writ large has a status quo bias.  He could choose one cause (say, the death penalty), and start working on it big time.  Go after politicians from states that have already abolished the death penalty. Try to rope in bigger-name politicians (Feingold, Obama come to mind) who have previously done work on the death penalty.  Give money to the politicians who support his bill; give money to the primary challengers of politicians who work against it.  Campaign on it.  Work with the ACLU on it.  Etc etc etc.

Instead, he'll introduce some showy bill he knows is going to get voted down, watch it get voted down, and then get on his soap box.

Even if I agree with everything he says, he's still a grand-stander who's not doing anything tangible to improve the problems he highlights, so why should I care?  I' m more interested in a politicians who's goals might be more modest, but who is much more likely to deliver on those goals and move us in the right direction.

He's not taken seriously because from the outside, we have no reason to believe he takes his own campaign or the task of spreading his message seriously.


[ Parent ]
Thank you! (0.00 / 0)
It FINALLY makes sense!

"He's not taken seriously because from the outside, we have no reason to believe he takes his own campaign or the task of spreading his message seriously."


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
My head is spinning. (0.00 / 0)
We have one person who is representing progressive ideas.
He is doing it on national television and radio.

And people who are claiming that they agree with what he says and that he is the only one representing their views are posting that he lacks tactical savvy, that he doesn't know how to compromise, they don't like his voice, and he comes off like a prick.

No wonder we can't get anywhere.


[ Parent ]
I have it! (0.00 / 0)
Fuck Kucinich!

Let's rally behind the candidates who voted for the war, who voted to fund the war, who join in the scare mongering about Iran, who voted for the Patriot Act, who supported Lieberman's re-election, who campaign with homophobes, and who sponsor legislation to increase pollution.


[ Parent ]
This is a good idea (0.00 / 0)
Kucinich clearly likes the whole 'voice crying out in the wilderness' schtick. He did it fairly well in the run up to the war. But he seems to lack any tactical or strategic sense, so he can be a hindrance when the campaign gets rolling.

So when he drops out of the race, he should go back to Ohio, win his primary and pick a long-term issue. Not impeachment - he's right, but you can't accomplish anything substantive in a year (or really make much forward progress at all) and he already made his point. Something else - fair trade, the death penalty, universal healthcare. Whatever. Concentrate on that, and only that. Stop taking questions about his wife, stop allowing himself to be pigeon-holed as some strange hippie, just sincere and substantive polemic in the service of his cause.

Then stop concentrating on getting on TV. That will come if he does the job well. If he's serious about producing change, he'd be better off reaching out to the blogosphere, which is pretty sympathetic to his proposals, then leveraging that into TV coverage, for which he should be as brilliantly uncompromising as he can possibly be.

DK could stretch the Overton window and help to improve the quality of the Democratic party as a whole, but he needs to do it in an organised and utterly unself-aggrandising way.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
Kucinich is a lone ranger... (0.00 / 0)
who often take strong progressive stands. But you hit the nail on the head that he seems oblivious or incapable of building a progressive majority. I haven't seen him reaching out much to others. He just does what he wants and any coalition-building be damned. This is often how some progressives are (particularly Greens).

This is why he would make a lousy president. And is probably in the best political position in the House and should stay there. It is notable that many of his former supporters who are now at PDA are lukewarm about his candidacy this time.


Kucinich can serve an important purpose... (0.00 / 0)
.... by raising the issues that most others are afraid to. But he's all tactic, at best, but no strategy. I find that the local people I know who support Kucinich -- and I know a lot of them -- have lots of energy and put in the hard work, but they mostly don't have a clue regarding strategy. Much of their effort seems to be devoted to preaching to the choir and alienating plenty of others. They'd rather be right in their own minds than successful. If some candidate for any office "says the right things" they're far too inclined to flock over, regardless of how awful the candidate may actually be as a candidate.

The people I know who might agree with Kucinich on policy 99% of the time -- but those who also understand strategy -- aligned early on with either Edwards or Obama.

I think the solution is to continue building the progressive infrastructure and then invite Kucinich and his followers to join, rather than expecting him to lead on the issue. But the secret to making it a successful marriage is to make him think that it was his idea.


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