Is Clinton a Weak General Election Candidate?

by: Matt Stoller

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 12:18


I know that it's popular to consider Hillary Clinton the victim of the right-wing smear machine, and that explains her high disapproval ratings.  Anyone who goes through that smear machine will have high disapproval ratings, or so goes the theory.  In at least three polls, that theory just does not check out. 

According to USA Today/Gallup polling data, her approval disapproval in late 2000 was 56-39.  In 2/2007, it was 58-40.  Today it is 47-50.  Clinton is less popular today than she was throughout the 1990s, and much more hated today than she was as First Lady.  In CBS Polling data, Clinton had a positive rating throughout 1999, throughout 2007 she has an average net negative rating.  Pew and NBC are closer, but they also show that she either the same or slightly less popular today than she was from 1998-2000 than she is today.

There are two possible explanations for this.  One, the right-wing smear machine is more effective today than it ever was, or two, Clinton has created more problems for herself than she had in the 1990s.  I suspect that both explanations are true, but it really doesn't matter when thinking about who is a good candidate.  A chunk of voters who liked her have decided they don't like her as she is running for President.  While Edwards and Obama have seen their disapprovals rise, neither has had their favorabilities drop.  Basically Republicans are getting to know them, and as they do they decide they disapprove of them.  This is natural; Republican voters disapprove of Democrats.  It is different with Clinton; she is turning off voters who previously liked her in the late 1990s and even earlier this year.

Why?  I don't know, and I don't have the data to do anything more than speculate.  But I will make a few observations about why I find her quite problematic.

Matt Stoller :: Is Clinton a Weak General Election Candidate?
One, she is just like Bush on foreign policy.

"She is probably more assertive and willing to use force than her husband," says Richard Holbrooke, the former envoy for Bill Clinton. "Hillary Clinton is a classic national-security Democrat. She is better at framing national-security issues for the current era than her husband was at a common point in his career."

People hate this war.  Removing all or some troops gets in the high sixties, and adopting a hawkish posture could be turning off voters.

Two, Clinton tends to surround herself with lobbyists and wealthy special interests.  I have noted this in the telecom realm, and I think it could bite her, but it's true in all areas of policy.  She has been outspoken about how lobbyists are people too, and this is not an appealing message.

Three, the Clinton's have, how to put it, real character issues.  I haven't written this before, because I don't believe in going after family members unless they make themselves an issue, but Chelsea Clinton, despite the opportunity to do anything she wants, chose to be a hedge fund manager.  What does that say about the Clinton family commitment to public service?  I write this because Clinton is using her daughter in an ad that says 'My Mom taught me to stand up for myself, and to stand up for those who can't do it on their own', and then express pride at passing those values on to her daughter.  What kind of value system is that?  And what does it say that Clinton is bringing her daughter into the contest bragging about her daughter's greed?  This is one small example (Mark Penn is another), but it's pretty clear that the Clinton's have become in some ways Bourbon-esque aristocrats.

Four, there's crap like this, from Bill Clinton, that is intended as an elitist smear against fellow Democrats.

Later he said that his friends in the Republican party had indicated that they felt his wife would be the strongest candidate, partly because she had already been "vetted" -- another subtle slap at Obama.

Also: He said the most important thing to judge was who would be "the best agent for change" not merely a "symbol for change....symbol is not as important as substance."

He also hit back at the charge that experienced politicians had helped get us into the Iraq war, saying that this was "like saying that because 100 percent of the malpractice cases are committed by doctors, the next time I need surgery I'll get a chef or a plumber to do it."

One more dig at Obama? He said that Edwards had first run for president after just a few years in the Senate, but then completed his term and went out and conducted a serious study of poverty.

"I guess I'm old fashioned," he said, in wanting a president who had actually done things for people. He said some people could "risk" taking someone who had served just a year in the Senate if they chose.

When Rose said that all this seemed to add up to Clinton hinting that people would be "rolling the dice" if they picked Obama, the former president replied: "It's less predictable, isn't it?"

There's so much wrong with this it's hard to know where to start.  The notion that his Republican friends, who are of course political elites, should matter, and that he has Republican elite friends from whom he accepts electoral advice, is weird.  And the idea that voting for the war is some mark of expertise is just horrible.

More to the point, Bill Clinton lied to all of us, and he will do it again.  In 2006, he promised to endorse Ned Lamont, and then on Larry King he said that it didn't matter if Lieberman or Lamont won since the Democrats would control the Senate either way.  It does matter, as we're seeing today, doesn't it?

This contempt for good decision-making around the issue of war and peace, her problematic personal value system, and this elitist attitude are all part of a toxic stew.  It's impossible to know what is driving up Clinton's negatives; maybe it's just the bad press, or maybe she has few external validators, few people willing to speak up for her who are not paid by the Clinton machine.  And it's possible that establishment voters, those who still constitute a strong plurality or even majority of Democratic voters, will drag her across the finish line.  I actually still think she's got the edge in the primary, though my prediction-meter is not great these days. 

The real problem, though, is that Hillary Clinton is a more hated figure today than she was in the 1990s.  While I used to think she hated the right as much as I do, I think I was probably wrong about that.  I got a direct mail piece from her discussing the need to make decisions based on 'evidence and facts, not politics and ideology'.  I don't know how long it is going to take the Democratic elites to realize that politics and ideology are necessary to both win and govern, but Clinton just doesn't agree.  They are children of the antipartisan new Left.  In many ways, they are like the exiled Bourbons, about whom it is said they have "forgotten nothing and learned nothing". 


Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
One bad choice you made here (4.00 / 2)
Absurd for you to assail the job choice of Chelsea Clinton.  Children often grow up and do things their parents didn't want them to do - regardless of whether the parents approve or not. Who knows what Bill and Hill told her to do. 

And given the tilt of power now in society, I do not begrudge anyone the choice to achieve some wealth (which I read as, "financial security") - as long as the choice is not an negative externality-maximizing choice like working for a timber company - if the door is open to that.  And being a President's kid, that door is wide open, and would shut later if she waited until she was 40 or 50 to earn some money. 



values (4.00 / 2)
Clinton made a choice to bring her daughter into the Presidential contest.  Why?  I don't know.  But if she's going to do that, then it makes sense to look at those values.  And they don't show a commitment to public service, unless you think hedge fund work is public service.

[ Parent ]
You are reaching. (4.00 / 4)
I just read the script of the spot.  She is just be showing off that she has a healthy and (you might infer) self-supporting child.  That's something all parents hope for.  The spot is strictly about this. 

I think inferring approval of her daughters career choice is a stretch.  Again, you need to know what the motivations are, and you can't, because you aren't in her head.  I think its about base parental emotions. 

Look, I don't want her to be the nominee. But you are reaching here in a big way.



[ Parent ]
Just didn't see it that way, Matt (0.00 / 0)
I don't see it as a character issue for Hillary to express pride in her daughter and her values generally.  Hedge funds are not public services but it's not like she's selling tobacco to kids or something.

[ Parent ]
Hedge fund (2.67 / 3)
Attacking the child of a candidate is loathsome.  Screw you and the horse you rode in on!

[ Parent ]
She's not 13 years old (0.00 / 0)
When you say "child", it infers a non-adult.

Romney's adult sons have been attacked for not considering military service.  How is this any different?  Adult children of politicians making career choices that aren't exactly public or national service.


[ Parent ]
I was surprised (0.00 / 0)
It surprised me to see that Hilary had brought Chelsea into the campaign.  They were so protective of her when Bill was president that, my first thought was that they must be really desperate to bring Chelsea front and center like that.  One big difference is that she is now certainly old enough to make her own choices about it and to handle it better.

I do think that if a candidate uses their children as a prop, they have already brought them into the campaign.  If they stop there, then critiquing the child is off limits.  Once they hold up their children as examples of their own ability or virtue they invite critique.

Romney did when he said that his kids were serving their country by helping with his campaign.  Sara Carter opened herself up by blogging for her father's Senatorial race.  I think that when Hilary said that Chelsea had dedicated herself to public service it is not unfair to ask ourselves if it is true or if we agree with the candidates assessment.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


[ Parent ]
I think you're missing something (4.00 / 3)
There are two possible explanations for this.  One, the right-wing smear machine is more effective today than it ever was, or two, Clinton has created more problems for herself than she had in the 1990s.

Well, there's a third explanation, too. In the 1990's she was the president's wife. Since then, she's been a senatorial candidate, senator, and presidential candidate. As her public role changes, political smears against her are likely to 1) become more virulent, and 2) get more traction.

Put another way, the more threatening to right-wing interests she becomes, the more energetically and persistently they will focus their attacks on her. Also, the more powerful and prominent a political figure she becomes, the more seriously people will take those attacks, and (perhaps most importantly) the more willing they will be to think ill of her.

Attacks against her as "first lady" were often seen as unfair or mean; as a result, I think many people shrugged them off or even sympathized with her. Now that she's a powerful (ambitious (calculating (castrating (help! a woman)))) political actor in her own right, she's become fair game for such attacks, and people of all political persuasions take them more seriously.

I share many of your reservations about her and her policies, but I'm not entirely convinced that her increasing negatives are the result of lots of other people sharing them with us.


sure (0.00 / 0)
That's also reasonable.

[ Parent ]
Hmm. Top of my head? (4.00 / 2)
Because the Clintons were under constant attacks during the 1990s, Dems were afraid to voice their own disapproval of them.  "Enemy of my enemies" and all.  Now that we're not defending the White House and against impeachment, Dems feel freer to speak out about the Clinton's character flaws.

[ Parent ]
That's similar to where I'm at actually. (0.00 / 0)
I defended the Clintons in the 90s and still do....to Republicans.

But, looking back on the Clinton record I must say I am not a fan.  I even resent him for all the opportunities he wasted (that's assuming these 'wasted opportunities' weren't on purpose).

For some reason, it seems that Obama has some pathological and deep-seated psychological need for Republicans to like him.  Seriously.  It's weird.


[ Parent ]
Should we wait (0.00 / 0)
to figure until after we are in the general the nature of the negatives? Seriously- who cares why- we know they are long term- isn't that enough

[ Parent ]
I was gonna say that, (4.00 / 1)
but the facts counter-indicate it.

My immediate thought was "well, in the 90s she was First Lady, the family member of a politician.  Now she's a politician herself.  If Laura Bush decided to run for the NY Senate seat that Hillary is vacating, then her approval ratings would crash right back to earth too, cause right now she's being judged on her performance in one occupation, and if she became a politician herself she'd be switching occupations and would be judged on completely different parameters."  There's really no way to compare Clinton's First Lady numbers with Clinton's politician numbers.  They're two different animals.

But, check out the February 2007 numbers: 58 approve 40 disapprove.  That was after she was already a politician running for president.  Those aren't first lady numbers anymore.  So what happened between February and now to kill those numbers?

I'd guess it was just moderate Republicans "coming home", and liberals disillusioned by the Democratic Congress's dismal war efforts.  So still probably nothing real big.  But, if Edwards' numbers haven't gone through a similar decline (I use Edwards cause he was a known figure back in 2004, while Obama was not), and it's only Hillary's numbers going down this way, then yeah there's a story here.  Going from +18 to -3, when that isn't happening to opponents who were also well-known at the outset, is a big deal.


[ Parent ]
addition (0.00 / 0)
Need to add:  I agree with your general criticism of HRC.  I always thought she would be 3rd most electable - at best.

I'd add that were I in Chelsea's position, I would make the exact same choice - with a goal of later using wealth to affect change, like a junior-league Soros. Who knows, maybe that's her goal as well.  Unless the balance of power in societies across the globe changes, we will need do-gooder rich folks out there.  And besides, it's bad branding for the Left to be against ambition.


As 'left winger' I am not.... (0.00 / 0)

....let me repeat, not, against ambition.

Greed...uh, yeah I'm not in favor of that.

Hedge fund manager is right in there with heroin dealer as far as value to society. To maintain anything else is to buy into, yet again, ReichWing framing.

Sadly, 'lil' Chelsea has now grown up and we can, and are entitled too, judge her family, including her, as a whole. Or would you prefer to exclude Junior when considering the Bush Family opus. Not that that would make much difference but I'm sure you take my point.

Clintons always have been and always will be about what's best for Clinton's, which is okay as far as it goes, to the exclusion of everyone  else, which is not.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Chelsea (4.00 / 2)
Clinton's running an ad on Chelsea.  That's the reason to look at these choices.

[ Parent ]
about Chelsea? (4.00 / 1)
I didn't see that.  Is the ad "about" her, or is she just in it?  That would be an important distinction to me.

[ Parent ]
You don't judge the entire life of a young person (4.00 / 2)
No, I disagree with you.  Chelsea Clinton has only begun adulthood.  And she has joined a hedge fund, she is not "the manager."  Big difference.  Maybe she'll learn what they're really about.  We don't know what's in her head.

You seem to have access to the headspace and motivations of the entire Clinton family.  To me, Bill Clinton is self-centered like ANY politician, your favorite and mine JRE included.

I suppose you think he's Satanic.  Clinton bashers to me have always had incomplete, imaginary, or nonexistant arguments.  They never acknowledge what Bill Clinton was up against re: the electorate, demographics, and the issue landscape (i.e. how horrible the welfare and crime issues were for Democrats). 

ReichWing framing? I think it's nearly impossible to have a conversation with you.  I really wonder why you bother coming online.  Have you thought of getting your own blog? Do you really think you persuade people?  I'm genuinely curious. 


[ Parent ]
Bill Drayton and George Soros (0.00 / 0)
A Mckinsely consultant and a hedge fund manager.  Awful people, those two. 

[ Parent ]
Day late, dollar short (4.00 / 1)
People have been making these arguments for most of this year- and you come to this in Dec 2007? Day late, dollar short.

yes (0.00 / 0)
I have been making these arguments since 2005.

[ Parent ]
I haven't seen any posts by an A list blogger specifically (0.00 / 0)
focused solely on her long term favorable/unfavorables by you or anyone else. If I missed them, I apologize.

  I post a lot over at mydd, I lurk a lot here and places like Daily Kos, etc, and I've been making this argument for a very long time. That her central problem is that her favorables/unfavorables long term are quite bad and they are long term. That her numbers are not like any other candidate running this cyle because they are structural rather than temporary blips.

My essential point is this.  This isssue is not something that she may be able to overcome in a short term campaign cycle. That this would place us at a deficit going into the general because rather than getting to know our candidate (however much we might have to face the GOP machine while doing this) we would be facing an uphill battle because part of the GOP's job is already done for them in the form of her incumbency-like favorable/unfavorables.

I think she can still win given where the GOP is, but I haven't understood why many of you have not been discussing how much harder it makes it for the Democrats (and in an unnecessary way) to have Clinton's favorable/unfavorables. It simply is a fact that this is a liability. It doesn't matter why the liability exists because it is long term, and therefore, more entrenched belief than a fleeting heat of the moment perception.

I expect to read any number of posts trying to justify it, but the fact is- it's a liability- period. It goes to her electability and how much effort the party will have to place behind her race for the WH versus consolidating victories won in 2006 in the Congress and at the state level. We will have to play greater defense because she is a defined quantity in the American people's minds.

This isn't to say that she isn't the right candidate. It's to say choose her with eyes open rather than the whole "bring in new voter" model of the hope and prayer politics.


[ Parent ]
Re: Is Clinton a Weak General Election Candidate? (4.00 / 3)
Answer: E.) None of the above.

Hillary Clinton's approval-disapproval spread has been remarkably stable since she took office in 2001. (Graphs can be found here.)

It is not a complicated set of numbers to read. She entered the White House with a 60% approval rating, not uncommon for first ladies, especially those whose husbands have been recently elected. Her popularity eroded throughout the mid-1990s for reasons well-known to us all. Monica proved a major shot in the arm, the public overwhelmingly supporting the quiet, "stand by your man" role played during the scandal. Her support cratered in 1999 as she moved towards a run for the U.S. Senate. Since her election, her support has, as said, remained remarkably stable, the late-2006 surge likely the result of the overwhelmingly positive coverage of her landslide reelect.

Now, in 2007, her disapproval has seen a small uptick, resulting in a net negative rating. This is similar to her first two forays into politics and government, as head of the health care task force and her senatorial bid. I would speculate that this has nothing to do with Iraq, lobbyists or Bill Clinton, but with discomfort in gender roles being broken. I can see no other reason for her sky-high approval ratings during her more traditional first lady ladies of early-1993 and 1997-1998, and her rock bottom numbers during the health care debate and first senatorial run.


good points (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for the graph, I was looking around pollster.com but I couldn't find that.

I would speculate that this has nothing to do with Iraq, lobbyists or Bill Clinton, but with discomfort in gender roles being broken. I can see no other reason for her sky-high approval ratings during her more traditional first lady ladies of early-1993 and 1997-1998, and her rock bottom numbers during the health care debate and first senatorial run.

As speculation of the general electorate goes, that makes sense.  In terms of the primary, the polling that I've seen indicates Clinton is getting rock solid support from the more establishment voting blocks, people comfortable with the status quo in the Democratic party. 

It's not clear to me what kind of effect her Iraq vote has had or her positive statements towards lobbyists, and there's probably no way to measure it.  I do tend to think that it causes a good number of newer elite actors distrust her, and that the split is generational.  Attitudes about Iraq also roughly split on generational/establishment lines, so there's not necessary a conflict there.


[ Parent ]
I actually don't think it has to do with gender roles. (0.00 / 0)
As I said above, Clinton has effectively switched occupations a few times here.  She has gone from being a First Lady to being a politician in 1993 to being a First Lady again to being a politician in 1999.  First Ladies, just like actors or any public celebrity, are judged on pretty lax standards: as long as they're classy and civilized, people on both sides of the political divide are willing to rate them generously.  Once you become a politician, you immediately lose the half of the electorate that is loyal to the other party. 

I bet Jay Leno has pretty good approval ratings right now, but if he ran for Governor of California, they'd probably crash to around 55%.  Doesn't matter what party he chose, he'd lose everyone in the other party to the "disapprove" column.

Laura Bush would have the same approvals crash as Hillary did if she declared for office, and not for any reason of her character or even her gender.  Rather, being a politician is just a different beast than being a public celebrity.  You choose your constituency groups and the opposing constituency groups stop liking you.  I don't follow these numbers closely, but I'd be surprised if any regularly opposed politician broke the 60/40 mark on a regular basis, while I bet First Ladies and other non-political celebrities routinely hover in 75/25 territory.


[ Parent ]
Crab Nebula is correct (2.00 / 4)
I often agree with many things that you say, Matt.  And then you say something that shows just appalling judgment that I wonder what the hell I was thinking to agree with anything you said.

Leave Chelsea alone.

Your rationalizations are absurd.


This is not a troll post (0.00 / 0)
ACitizen, you gave this a zero, I'm guessing because this person cited my post.  This is ratings abuse. This is not what the ratings are for.  As I've said before in a variety of ways, ACitizen is not behaving in a mature or communicative way.  This blog will only be hampered in its aspirations if these kinds of voices are allowed to treat people in this way. 

It should be about debate, not name calling.

 


[ Parent ]
Crab Nebula is correct (0.00 / 0)
Just about the time I think get this blog it goes on a inexplicable rant. 

Hedge fund managers. (4.00 / 1)
I don't know enough about how hedge funds are structured to understand why they are so much more evil than other kinds of finance or investment banking, so someone should educate me on that. But in general, I know a lot of folks with progressive values, John Edwards and Soros among them, who have been involved in different ways with hedge funds and high finance in general. Going after Chelsea, who has always seemed like a fine young woman to me, does seem wrong to me. 

once again (4.00 / 2)
Mike,

I'm not 'going after' Chelsea Clinton, and once again, as you often do, you take what I write and misinterpret it.  I'm pointing out that if Clinton is making the values she handed down to her daughter an issue, which she is, then it's worth looking at the values her daughter pursues in her career.  And in her career, given a huge number of options open to her, she chose helping financiers get wealthier instead of actually doing what her mother said she does, which is stand for those who can't help themselves.

Please, Mike, try to read what I write.


[ Parent ]
Character. (4.00 / 1)
I always read what you write. I have misinterpreted it sometimes in the past, but sometimes we just disagree. I think this is one of those cases.
You started your paragraph where you referenced Chelsea by saying "...the Clintons have, how to put it, real character issues." You then say, "I haven't written this before, because I don't believe in going after family members unless they make themselves an issue." I not only read what you said, I practically quoted from it: you are the one who said you were "going after" Chelsea, and on character issues. I don't see how I could be misinterpreting that.
While I would prefer Chelsea had started in a career in progressive politics, I don't think the values she has pursued in her career, as you put it, are automatically bad because she has gone into the financial industry. That is my point, and I think that is an area of legit disagreement between us.

[ Parent ]
Some people think any comment on a family member, (0.00 / 0)
unless there are really extreme circumstances like an indictment, is "going after."  Family members are supposed to be completely and utterly off limits, and any move in that direction even if explicitly and circumstantially justified, is still "going after."

I don't agree with that, but it is a legitimate stance.  Mike can think that you are "going after" Chelsea even if he read and understood your justification perfectly.  It's a difference of opinion, not an error in comprehension or due diligence.  And it's a completely legitimate opinion on his part, albeit one I don't share.


[ Parent ]
Hedge Funds are speculators (4.00 / 1)
They are just the modern incarnation of the second oldest profession.  They buy something (usually shares of stock) and sell it for a higher price.  If this is successful they take a piece of it.  They can make bets that prices of things (like stocks) are going down and if they are right, they take a nice piece of the winnings as well. 

Bankers and private equity guys can at least say they provide a service and value to society by putting together (or taking apart, or helping fund) more efficient business structures.  Consultants and Lawyers basically do the same thing, but get paid less. 


[ Parent ]
How's that different from a mutual fund? (0.00 / 0)
No sarcasm, I really don't get it.

[ Parent ]
What's the deal about Hillary? (0.00 / 0)
If you're trying to make an aristocracy argument, it's important to remember that Hillary's upbringing was as a Goldwater Republican. Anyone watching what occurred in '64 would have to wonder about the rare kid who'd consider Goldwater in light of the nuclear fears of the time. And after Kennedy's Peace Corps, his Appalachia visits, the Civil Rights movement, etc, it becomes clear that Hillary's values were out of synch with the majority and populism in general.

So yeah, there might be something to the value system that Chelsea's career adds some evidence to.

Bill, on the other hand, parlayed an exceptional intellect into something his path displays. There's a little bit of insecurity there. He wanted to be a Kennedy not just because of JFK's achievements, but because of the money and power behind him. So Bill's always pandered a bit to power and has been a studious social climber as a result. He needs to be liked.

Setting all that aside, though, because amateur psychology doesn't win many arguments, I think it's important to choose words well. I have no 'hate' for Hillary. 'Dislike' is closer but it's really not personal at all.

It's her policies I dislike. Bush favors the top 2% and Hillary favors the top 20%. I'm part of the 4 out of 5 majority that scratches its head and says: there's nothing there that adds a thing to my life, most of my family's lives, etc.

There's no vision thing going, either. No high ideal to lead the country to. Even her husband knew to play up the Man From Hope angle, (though in the end, few hopes beyond his own were realized)

Edwards feels our pain, he doesn't mouth the words. Obama seems a bit naive but uniting the nation with blind (and only blind) partisanship cast aside really would be a positive if it can be done. And what do I get from Hillary?

1) not a single legislative achievement that stands out.
2) a 14 year (and counting) delay in healthcare reform because she naively believed when you compromise with devils they won't burn you in the end.
3) the refusal to apologize for error that so typifies ALL power abusers.
4) status quo politicking, sans vision or innovation.
5) the sense that she'll kiss and make up with Scaife Mellon and Murdoch before being caught dead around the likes of me.

Ambition is fine when it's pulling for the team, but when it's only about winning for yourself, or for a select group or three, it doesn't play in my Peoria.

Not because I hate her. But because I like the notion of actual community building, not a village that will only take time to raise a select few children while the rest are abandoned.


easy on the elitism, easy on Chelsea (0.00 / 0)
First, I think flailing against political elites in general isn't helpful.  Anyone who runs for office and is operating in the public sphere at the national level is an elite.  Elites can be good or bad, but its just a shorthand word that means the people in any society who have wealth, power, fame or any combination thereof. 

Second, I have to agree with the first poster about Chelsea.  She worked at McKinsey and now works at a Hedge Fund.  Both of those jobs are about as demanding as possible and neither suffer fools.  Having worked in both the public (non political) and private sector since Bush came to power, I can say its really no fun being in the public sphere right now.  Its nasty and Bush has poisoned the atmosphere to an incredible degree.  there's nothing wrong with getting some great experience and knowledge at places like mckinsey and avenue capital and then doing more philanthropic stuff down the road.  Bill Drayton (founder of ashoka) worked at McKinsey  and it gave him the know how to change the world. 

Overall I agree with your analysis.  Its all a round about way of saying Hillary profoundly disagrees with us about the current institutional arrangement.  We say its broken, she says its fine as long as Bush is no longer at the head of it all.  The CLintons have a lot of power, the netroots have some, and its frustrating to watch it all play out, especially when her support comes from a lot of groups that are currently suffering the most under current institutional arrangements.  I think it would be very informative to understand why that is, to deconstruct the way that the Clintons maintain support with a lot of these groups. 


"electability" (0.00 / 0)
I am very skeptical of "electability" arguments in general. They seem to me to be a variation of the personality-based narratives that are sold through the corporate media in order to get the masses to vote for the elite-approved candidates. Whoever ends up the Democratic nominee will be painted by the corporate-media with some character-driven narrative that will raise their disapproval numbers. I don't believe in letting establishment elites pick our nominee.

The corporate media psyched Democrats out of nominating Dean because he was "angry." But the reality was that if you weren't angry, you weren't paying attention, and if you weren't angry, you'd probably make a pathetic candidate against George Bush in 2004.

I think all "electability" speculations should be subjected to a gut test. Is it valid or is it bullshit? Making people uncomfortable regarding gender roles? That's bullshit. If we want Hillary as our nominee, we should proudly take the fight to the Republicans and challenge such sexist thinking. A potentially valid electability argument that I see is her positions on Iraq and Iran. Having voted for the Iraq war and Kyl-Lieberman, she will be in an inherently weak position trying to make either situation an effective campaign issue in the general (just like Kerry in '04. Can anyone say "flip-flopper"?). And which of us will not feel some partially repressed embarrassment and resentment trying to defend such nonsense if she becomes the nominee (just like we all did with Kerry.)

To summarize/clarify: I think that if the rationale underlying a particular electability argument is substantively valid, it's a good reason to reject a candidate. If it is based on some bullshit like "anger" or "uppity woman" we should ignore it and be prepared to fight the bullshit that may eventually come. There is no candidate who is immune to having ridiculous bullshit narratives concocted and regurgitated by the corporate media (earth tones, swift boaters, expensive haircuts, drug dealer/secret muslim.)

miasmo.com


USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox