The Obama Rorschach Test

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 19:00


One of the difficulties of basing candidate selection on campaign rhetoric is that such rhetoric is wide open to subjective interpretation. In the current campaign, Barack Obama is probably the best example of this difficulty. For example, first consider Paul Krugman on Barack Obama:
Chris Bowers :: The Obama Rorschach Test
PK: Yet on health care Obama is behaving as kind of, "Let's make a deal." The idea that he would be talking even in the primary campaign about the big table is suggesting that he is not all that committed to taking on special interests.

On the big problems there's a fundamental, deep-seated difference between the parties. I've always just felt that his tone was one suggesting that his inclination is to believe that we can somehow resolve these thing through a kind of outbreak of good feeling.(…)

EC: But should his conciliatory tone really be the basis to this extent of our evaluation of him? Some, including Matthew Yglesias, have argued that this focus on Obama's conciliatory rhetoric obscures the fact that Obama would still more likely prove a genuinely progressive president than Hillary would be.

PK: When Obama used the word "crisis" about Social Security it gave me a little bit of a sense of, "Hmmm -- I'm a little worried that my initial concerns were more right than I knew."(…)

It's a tone thing. I find it a little bit worrisome if we have a candidate who basically starts compromising before the struggle has even begun.

It is indeed a tone thing, but it is also, as Kevin Drum notes, a Rorschach test. When I hear Obama's rhetoric, to me it comes off as distancing himself from DFHs, appeasing the Washington Elite Bi-Partisan Consensus, and compromising before negotiations even begin. To others, like Frank Rich, it sounds like Obama is opposing himself from conservatives who have long worked to divide the nation along various cultural lines:

For those Americans looking for the most unambiguous way to repudiate politicians who are trying to divide the country by faith, ethnicity, sexuality and race, Mr. Obama is nothing if not the most direct shot. After hearing someone like Mitt Romney preach his narrow, exclusionist idea of "Faith in America," some Americans may simply see a vote for Mr. Obama as a vote for faith in America itself.

I'm pretty sure that both interpretations are correct. Obama both symbolizes and has repeated exhorted that the country should no longer be divided by faith, ethnicity, sexuality and race (although his campaign has made many mistakes on this front). At the same time, he is also distancing himself from the DFHs. The key is that he is trying to come across as a uniting figure on all fronts, ideological, partisan and cultural. This means both no long being divided in the ways that Frank Rich listed, but also no longer being divided on ideological or partisan grounds. And it also means repudiating and distancing oneself from perceived polarizers on both sides.

To be blunt, it feels like a fundamentally absurd vision. Ideological and partisan division will not melt away, and nor should they in any republic. Republicans will continue to prove far more intransigent and unwilling to compromise than Democrats. Conservatives will continue their battle of civilizations against all who are perceived to threaten white Christianity in America, no matter who the next President is and no matter what overtures progressives make to them. Progressives will continue to be unjustifiably blamed for equally causing polarization in America. The Washington Elite Consensus will continue to hate progressive strawmen, and continue their establishment rebellion against relatively powerless DFHs. Conciliatory rhetoric won't change any of this. Fortunately, the progressive pluralist coalition also continues to grow in size, and by 2012 it should become the natural governing coalition in America. Very soon, as long as we continue to cultivate that coalition, we won't need any these divisions to be healed in order to govern effectively.

The rhetoric Obama uses clearly can be interpreted in different ways by different people. For me, it is the single biggest turnoff of his entire campaign. On its ideological and partisan implications, I don't believe, trust, or even want what Obama describes on unity. For many others, it seems to be the strongest selling point for his candidacy, at least on the multicultural pluralism it promises. It doesn't seem like it is possible to have one without the other when it comes to Obama, but figuring out which part of Obama's rhetoric one favors more does indeed seem like a progressive Rorschach test.

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Frank Rich (4.00 / 4)
Frank Rich has his own problems with DFHs.

Americans are looking for leadership, somewhere, anywhere. At least one of the Democratic presidential contenders might have shown the guts to soundly slap the "General Betray-Us" headline on the ad placed by MoveOn.org in The Times, if only to deflate a counterproductive distraction. This left-wing brand of juvenile name-calling is as witless as the "Defeatocrats" and "cut and run" McCarthyism from the right; it at once undermined the serious charges against the data in the Petraeus progress report (including those charges in the same MoveOn ad) and allowed the war's cheerleaders to hyperventilate about a sideshow.


And To Think (4.00 / 1)
Rich was a theatre critic!  And by all accounts, a pretty good one.

How can someone with that background get the political theatre so wrong?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Rich (0.00 / 0)
is a baby boomer. 58 years old. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.

[ Parent ]
Oh Please! That Is Soooo Lame! (4.00 / 1)
Bob Dylan is 66 (still sings "Masters of War").  Neil Young is 62 ("Let's Impeach the President"). Bruce Springsteen is 58 ("Magic," "Last To Die").

And they're all young pups.  Noam Chomsky is 79.  Howard Zinn is  85. Studs Terkel is 95.

Enough with the ageist crap.

Give it up!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
He's also (0.00 / 0)
a baby boomer with ties to the establishment. That kinda baby boomer.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.

[ Parent ]
Some people (0.00 / 0)
just don't like to think of politics as theater.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Campaign rhetoric literalism (0.00 / 0)
what i call campaign rhetoric literalism is the choice by analysts to take candidates at their word literally.

I think Obama may know exactly what you know re: the partisan divide (he's not dumb, and he is in the US Senate), but he also knows how seductive and persuasive the "post partisan" thing is for regular people. So this may be entirely strategic.  He could drop this when elected if he wants to.

Yes, that may be dispiriting to those who need to "believe" in politicians and the honesty of campaign discourse, and leaves you/us with little to analyze.  It's easier to take candidates at their word.  Without this, bloggers and junkies would have little to write or talk about.

But really, the candidates look roughly equal in sincerity to me. Really, my favorite candidate (aside from public funding issue) is Edwards.  Yet I really have no clue how sincere he is/was about his change on the war vote.  I don't care.  I don't care about Bill Clinton's Presidency and the HRC team (aside from Penn, whom I loathe), because it was in the past, and he would be a different Prez today.  I don't care that Obama has achieved little of real substance in the Senate and is relatively inexperienced.  (The Lincoln comparison is apt in defusing the years of experience issue).

Chris, you professed your love for Feingold.  Good guy IMO, but really, I would have no real confidence that he'd be any better of a President than any of the 3 above.  Yes, I really believe that.  He might...but I can imagine a Feingold presidency where he runs into trouble because he doesn't excel in the silly and superficial aspects of politics or communication.  Or for other reasons.

Why don't we all stop this "all or nothing" devotion to single candidates.  I'd say the vast majority of regular voters don't feel this way - and belittling their preferences is not right.

 


Well said. (4.00 / 3)
I can't imagine Obama doesn't know exactly what he's up against on the other side. Perhaps his strategy is a grand-scale version of what has been called the "Obama Trick"... smile at your enemies, give signs of respect, even state their positions and the value of them. Then do exactly what you were going to do in the first place, patting them on the shoulder with the right hand and stabbing them in the back with left while they're still smiling about what a remarkably reasonable person you are. Personally his remarks on social security etc. don't bother me so long as his actions are in line with his consistent liberal record... I don't care if the other side goes down smiling or fighting, so long as they're beaten.

[ Parent ]
Bill Clinton was supposedly pretty good at this too. (4.00 / 1)
You'd come into the room and he'd throw on the charm and the respect and the reasonableness and the "look let's just work this out" and before they knew it the GOP House members he was meeting with had given away the farm.

Gingrich at some point banned all personal meetings with Clinton because he was causing GOP reps to compromise too much.

It is possible through your personality to make your politics easier or harder to oppose.  That's a meaningful consideration.  If Obama through his personality makes his politics harder to oppose and obstruct, that counts for something real.


[ Parent ]
But how'd that work out with Clinton I, (4.00 / 3)
in the long term? (And by 'long term', I mean ... pretty damn short term.)

[ Parent ]
ROFL (0.00 / 0)
"Gingrich at some point banned all personal meetings with Clinton because he was causing GOP reps to compromise too much."

Didn't know that.


[ Parent ]
He Also Gave Away The Farm, But Who's Farming Now, Anyway? (4.00 / 6)
NAFTA, ending welfare, balancing the budget rather then pushing social programs so Bush could plunder it for his cronies, and selling the party's soul to Wall Street.

Like the man said, "Best Republican President of the 20th Century."

Not exactly an inspiring model, IMHO.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well, I think that's choosing to miss the point. (4.00 / 1)
Yes, Clinton ALSO passed some bad stuff.  But I don't believe that follows only and necessarily from the fact that he's a smooth negotiator.

For starters, Clinton was a pro-corporate DLC guy from the day he started his third campaign for Arkansas governor -- the one after he was thrown out by Tyson Foods and co.  Clinton simply did not have the progressive principles that I think we can fairly assume Obama has had all his life.

Second, after 1994 Clinton faced a huge GOP Congress at a time when the GOP was ascending nationally (Fox News rollout, talk radio crossing the threshold).  Obama would not be likely to ever face either situation.  Clinton was in an extremely weak position after 1994 whereas Obama will not be in 2008.

More to the point, one's ability to be a smooth negotiator has no direct bearing on one's willingness to sell out the base.  Unless you take an extremely and categorically dim view of negotiating, which would be completely silly.  So we should negotiate with Iran but not with Republicans, I guess?

Dumping all of Clinton's bullshit on Obama because both men have the personal ability to negotiate is uncharacteristically lame.  Sorry.


[ Parent ]
Two points as a rejoinder ot CN... (4.00 / 1)
As to this two-headed assertion:

I don't care that Obama has achieved little of real substance in the Senate and is relatively inexperienced.  (The Lincoln comparison is apt in defusing the years of experience issue).

I have serious problems with the inexperience aspect of Obama's public service. It's past glib to point out Bush's disasterous example but this 'modern' idea that the President can be ignorant about much of his job because he will have 'good advisors' is simply insane. Hasn't worked with inexperienced executives, that's why Governors generally do better than Senators, in recent years. No reason for it to work for Senator Waffle.

I also would point out that Obama is no Lincoln and it's more than tiresome to here folks comparing the two. And barring outright civil war Obama will never get to show if he could be another Lincoln either. Which is a good thing.

Obama's campaign is based to a large degree on his personality and his ability to get folks to trust him and believe in him.

I view such a  political approach as not only suspect but no longer effective in creating solutions. You simply must have the correct policy as part of your policy if you expect to govern well.

Obama has not shown that he understands or cares about this. He seems to feel that any policy will work if he is implementing it.

I'm sure at the beginning Bush felt the same.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


but (0.00 / 0)
Sure, you're right, he probably is no Lincoln. Probably.  But the example is instructive because we just do not know. We also had no idea FDR would be who he was.  JFK was a decent President, and he was also derided as inexperienced and too slick, too smooth, too shallow. 

And you are making inferences as to how he feels.  You just don't know. 

What is wrong with Obama basing a campaign on his personality if that is his most saleable asset?  He should use maximize the utility of the assets he has to persuade voters, not all of whom judge candidates with a  literal policy-centric approach.

Edwards is a gifted communicator, as good as Obama, IMO.  What is wrong with him using his smile, his charm?  I don't trust him any less. I met Edwards once, he is seriously charming.  So what?

I understand your choices.  I'm just saying I think it's just one way of looking at things, that it's not nearly so cut and dried.
 


[ Parent ]
History Says: Not So Much... (4.00 / 2)
We also had no idea FDR would be who he was.

FDR had been the governor of the largest state in the union in the midst of the worst depression the nation had ever seen, and he had been extremely active, in sharp contrast to Hoover.  So, we had a pretty darned good idea of what he was going to be like.

Not a perfect idea, to be sure.  He started out quite willing to work with everyone, wanted to work with big business leaders as well as everyone else.  But the big business leaders thought they could roll him, and walked off in a huff when they couldn't.

Big mistake. He was not made of jello.  And anyone with their head on straight knew that at the time.

You cannot say that about Obama.

OTOH, the comparison to JFK is a fair one.  I say that not least of all because it's a comparison I've made myself.  They are both young, charismatic figures who are fast on their feet, but seem to lack gravitas.  This can mean being better under fire than they are at avoiding fire.  It means, they would make a lot better leaders with another 10-20 years of experience under their belts.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Fast on his feet? .. (0.00 / 0)
If there is one thing Obama hasn't excelled at .. it has been the debates .. granted he got off a good line in the last one .. but it took him how long to get going(meaning .. what .. 5 or 6 debates)?

[ Parent ]
I Was Thinking Metaphorically (4.00 / 1)
Or, rather, more in terms of actions, rather than words.  He is much better at moving around on issues, positioning himself for the moment than he is taking really deep, solid stands.

Thanks for making me explain myself better.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
i think i disagree (0.00 / 0)
i don't think you're right that "everybody knew" - from my admittedly cursory readings of biography/history of th e 32 election

but i think it's a good historical point to debate here.  i should research more.

sara from the next hurrah has blogged much and well on FDR.


[ Parent ]
All good points.... (4.00 / 1)

.....I tend to see Obama in black and white because in my many discussions about him online his supporters seemingly cannot see the man any other way.

So I tend to be a little aggressive in my discussions of him.

I've heard him speak by the way, in Oakland CA, and while he's a gifted public speaker conversant with all the devices and conventions of such.

He cannot hold his own with JFK who was the sort of speaker who could bring the crowd to it's feet at will with either rhetorical flourish or substantial assertions. Never have heard the like.

So....

Obama is a very good politician and one of the best speakers out there today. I would put JRE ahead of him on both counts particularly after viewing the most recent YouTubes of Edwards on the stump.

Here's what I'm talkin' about:

http://takeaction.wo...


Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Sorry, But For Me JFK Was A Lightweight (0.00 / 0)
Even in his own family. By the time he ran for President, his little brother Robert far surpassed him.

And just look at who else was around in the 1960s: Malcolm. King.  The young John Lewis.  I was a teenager back then, and JFK was simply not in their league. Not even close.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Confusing Red And White (4.00 / 1)
Obama's problem is simple: He doesn't realize when he waves the white flag that it just makes conservatives see red.

One more reason to be true blue.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I Had To Laugh (2.67 / 3)
at Obama's nativity the first time I heard him sing Kumbaya. Talk about unrealistic. Buy yet this site and many other people support such a naive person. What happens if he wins the WH and his bubble bursts? He will have no real direction to turn to and will be totally unprepared for what faces him both mentally and substantively. Will he cave to the Right in hopes of reciprocation? Yet people support him? People who claim to be realists when it comes to politics?

Obama's rhetoric aside as a subjective discussion one should really look at his votes - his overall votes.

This data is from progressivepunch.yvod.com who are one of many who rate the Progressiveness of candidates:

Here is the '07-'08 Progressive Ranking for both Obama and Clinton:

Obama (ranked 43 overall) - 81.82 progressive rating

Clinton (ranked 29) Overall - 90.83 progressive rating

Clinton excels over Obama by 9 points

Here is the '07-'08 Progressive Ranking for both Obama and Clinton "When the chips are down":

Obama - 77.11

Clinton 87.93

Again Clinton is more progressive by more than 10 points.

So if history in black and white is any indicator of who is more liberal/progressive in regards to their voting record, and it is, then Clinton is clearly more progressive than Obama. And as I pointed out in a post a few days ago Clinton earlier in the year introduced a bill to suspend Big oils tax breaks and then to actually raise their taxes to promote clean energy. A double whammy tax increase is what it was. So much for the canard that Clinton is 100% pro business.

And as for Edwards - his overall rating back in 2004 was around 77%. well below both Clinton and Obama.

Now will those hard facts change any minds? Not anymore than the Theocons will change their minds on Huckabee. You see this election on the Progressive side is TOTALLY subjective - facts be damned - just as the Theocons are subjective. Just flip sides of the same coin - but the same coin none the less.

No, you reading this will not change your mind - but you will at least know that facts may not be the most important thing that matters to you. Personal prejudices weigh far more than who actually has the goods.

Bowers endorsed Obama - but the record clearly shows he is supporting the least Progressive of the viable candidates. How can you say you support promoting Progressivism when you support the least Progressive of the candidates? Earlier in a post today he made a case for just about every other candidate based on one thing or the other but totally excluded Clinton. Where was the objectivity on that one? Nowhere to be found. Subjectivity Lives!


it's the bubble factor (4.00 / 3)
Obama is speaking to ordinary Americans -- the ones who vote in the elections that will determine the nominee. Those people, by huge margins according to the available polling, want someone who will work with others to solve problems. If Obama spoke to Chris Bowers, or anyone else in the Open Left bubble, he would not be in the position he is in. Which is that he is about to be elected the first Black President of the United States.

Part of what doesn't bother me about Obama's message of healing divides is that I do not take it to mean triangulation or conciliation with Republicans the way that Paul and others here do. He's talking about leading the country, uniting the country, around progressive values. That is what he did in Illinois. He did not capitulate to what the Republicans wanted. He has a talent in *leading* people to solutions that are rooted in progressive values. He has ALWAYS talked about it in that way. But you guys (just like the mainstream media pundits) always miss that point.

Politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards.


??? (0.00 / 0)
"He did not capitulate to what the Republicans wanted".

He had one vote! He was not governor or even the Leader of the State Senate. How could he capitulate?

Like I said above - Subjectivity Lives. Too many on the Left are living in a day dream instead of reality.

Romney, Rudy, or even Huckabee with his populist/religious message will probably rip Obama to shreds. Earlier Bowers mentioned 'who could win the WH' but didn't expand on that too much if at all. I wonder why?

But hey - if it is more important to most of you to subjectively choose the least progressive candidate to run based on your biases then have at it. But you will be second guessing yourselves when we have eight more years of Republican rule. Second thinking yourselves big time.

But then it will be to late and you will be a decade older next time you get your chance. The question is will you have learned anything over a period of 8 more years...

Or will you once again choose idealism over practicality and common sense?


[ Parent ]
I Want To Belive That Jennifer, I Really Do (4.00 / 1)
But you are still his only surrogate I have met who is the least bit convincing to me.  Not a very impressive average.

And against that, he has a long history of taking pot shots at those to his left that are completely gratuitous--a factor I simply can't square with the picture you paint.

Still, if he does become the nominee, I pray to God that I'm 100% wrong about him.

I've been that badly wrong before.  I was wrong about John Lennon. I thought he was just a glib pretty boy until he hooked up with Yoko Ono.

But, then again, I was comparing him to Bob Dylan and Phil Ochs, so I actually had a point.

One thing I'm sure of: Obama is no Phil Ochs.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
John Sebastian (0.00 / 0)
The right words for these ageist put downs are from John Sebastian's song "Younger Generation", "All are greatest worries are your cartoons."  Don't trivialize us.

[ Parent ]
It is interesting (0.00 / 0)
To me I think the divide is based on how political you are.  Political operatives who have spent years and years fighting for some cause don't trust unity because they think that such talk signals corruption.

Whereas most people are turned off to politics because they don't want to become like those political operatives and be so cynical and untrusting. 


Actually the real divide is (4.00 / 2)
between Obama supporters who are on average younger voters or young to politics who don't remember Obama's campaign the first time around-- 1992 when Bill Clinton ran the same race. I was enamoured then too as someone who confused what I wanted to believe with the realities of life. Hopefully many of you won't get the same harsh wake up call that I did by 1993. But if Obama is elected I suspect you will have the same realizations that the more experienced have- namely -- it takes two to tango. You talk ad nauseum about how it's the left who is preventing this country from coming together. But, that's delusional at best, and more likely self serving of your candidate this cycle at worse.

[ Parent ]
huh (0.00 / 0)
You talk ad nauseum about how it's the left who is preventing this country from coming together.

I wouldn't really say that.  I don't really care at all whether the country comes together or not.

I want someone who has a record of winning on progressive issues.  Obama has the best record in that regard and thats why I prefer him.  "coming together" is a tool.  It isn't the desired end result.


[ Parent ]
Your post is a perfect example of how this is a Rorshach test (4.00 / 1)
Hint: this isn't about you and what you think. It's about Obama and what he thinks.

[ Parent ]
DFH (0.00 / 0)
I must have missed an important meeting. What's a DFH? Democrat For Hire? Detroit Fire Hose? Dark Freeking Horse?

More Like You Missed The Last 6 Years! (Lucky You!) (4.00 / 1)
Dirty
Fucking
Hippy

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Fascinating (4.00 / 1)
I hear that there's this new form of music called "rap" in which instead of singing, you just talk. Is this true?

[ Parent ]
Why, yes (0.00 / 0)
You can read about it on this wonderful invention called the internet, which...

I guess you already know about that one.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
It's Called "Talking Blues" (4.00 / 2)
Check out Woody Guthrie's new album!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Why are you so rude? (0.00 / 0)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
How I wish I had four hands and.... (4.00 / 2)

..............two keyboards. I'm just really tired of seeing the unsubstantiated assertion that the citizens of this still great nation are not going to support a progeressive candidate.

Again and again we see this comment made.

Listen up you low-info folk.

The American people are far, far to the left of Versailles. They are even to the left of Edwards or Clinton.

Not true you assert again?

Go to the blackboard and write:

Why I am an Idiot!

ten thousand times. I wrote that post just for you so go read it and do clik thru the link to the actual poll. It's over a hundred pages long and it proves my assertion totally and without any doubt.

Go ahead, educate yourselves. Maybe we will see a little more reality here in the 'reality-based' community.

I sure hope so.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Can You See Yourself in Obama? (0.00 / 0)
Above all, the basic heuristic that many people use in picking a candidate is "who is most like me".  We're not talking about scoring candidates on a checklist of issues; we're talking about which candidate maximizes a sense of cultural continuity, the candidate whose reasons stem from the most similar fundamentals and worldview.

Hillary Clinton? She's your buddy's frowning wife who you suspect doesn't really like her husband hanging out too much with his friends.  John Edwards? I suspect that some on the left have a knee-jerk negative initial reaction to southerners.  Barack Obama? No one wants to admit to not feeling cultural continuity with a black man because that would be "racist."  Out of all the front-runners (and perhaps the entire Democratic field), I think that Barack Obama appears to many to be the candidate who could most organically integrate into one's social circle.

Republicans have it easy.  They have a communal vision of American culture that they all share.  Their disparate wings have cultural continuity.  The Democrats, alas, have been fractured by identity politics.  Our choices are pretty clear.  We can look at the Democratic coalition through the eyes of the counterculture New Left.  We can return to the emphasis on economics and labor that we had with the New Deal.  Or we can forge something even newer that synthesizes the best parts of the New Deal and the concerns of the New Left while diminishing the divisiveness of identity politics by denying any absoluteness of identity.

In the Obama Rorschach test, I don't see a slam-dunk vehicle for the creation of the new sort of progressivism that I envision (and it's a vision that I am still struggling with as a work in progress), but I do see Obama as probably the best chance at starting down that road.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


I think that forming an opinion... (0.00 / 0)
... of a candidate based simply on their rhetoric and not on their record of success, is misguided.

Obama has demonstrated success with his approach, throughout his entire career -- even before his political career.

Edwards, with his current combative populist rhetoric, has little to show for it.

What's the Point?


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