Will The Real Culture War Please Stand Up???

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 07:54


Note: This is not a candidate diary.  It is a critical article--one that engages in critical analysis.  It uses a key narrative of the Obama campaign as a jumping-off point, but that is merely a point of departure for illuminating what none of the campaigns are really facing up to.  I have not endorsed anyone.  None seem to grasp what is really going on here.  Obama simply provides the most promising opening to begin the discussion.  He misunderstands it--or at least appears to--in the most deep and fundamental way.

It's the grand premise of the Obama campaign that he can bring us together, slay the dragon of partisan divisiveness and end the culture wars which he lays at the feet of the Baby Boom generation.  It's a nice, appealing narrative, in a way, it all turns on the question of what you mean by "culture war."  The commonsense meaning of "culture war" over the past few decades is a war over social mores between hierarchical "traditional values" and the post-1950s emergence of egalitarian values, especially with respect to race and gender, more closely aligned with the traditional values at the core of our Constitution.

But there's a deeper meaning, which is clearly understood by rightwing culture warriors, and virtually unknown to everyone else.  This meaning comes, ironically, from a leading Marxist theorist, the highly independent Italian leader, Antonio Gramsci, who described culture war as a struggle for ideological control of the broad range of institutions in society.  And in this deeper sense, Obama's analysis is completely upside-down--the problem is not that both sides are equally to blame, but that only the right is actually fighting a coordinated culture war as Gramsci defined it.  It's not a case of bringing a knife to a gunfight, it's a case of brining a plastic yogurt spoon to a nuclear war.

Gramsci was grappling with the question of why Marxist predictions had not come to pass, why the rise of working class power had not lead to a communist revolution, or even the dominance of socialist political parties.  The reason, he believed, was that workers aspired to become their class enemy--they wanted to join the bourgeoisie, not destroy it, and the reason for that was the hegemony of bourgeois ideology, expressed through a whole range of political institutions.

Gramsci's argument is based on an analysis that can clearly be transposed onto other forms of ideological struggle, such as the one that grips America today.  Whether or not Gramsci was entirely right in his specific analysis (not being a communist, I obviously think he wasn't), he clearly was onto something, and America's post-1960s New Right has followed his prescription quite faithfully, even if they did not cite him specifically until Rush Limbaugh did so in the 1990s.  By engaging in a Gramscian culture war, the right has positioned itself to define the terms of the "culture war" as commonly understood.  While there may be hopes of diminishing, if not ending the "culture war" in the latter sense it is not clear how this is possible, except temporarily, without countering the rightwing's Gramscian culture war.  And countering that culture war is not possible without first grasping the full nature and extent of it. 

This diary represents a small beginning, a thumbnail sketch overview of what that would entail.  I intend to follow it up with some diaries that look at how the right has moved in on various different cultural institutions-possible examples include think tanks, the media, K-12 and higher education, churches, state governments, the courts and civil society institutions such as the Boy Scouts.  I have one about the intrusion of "homeland security" on academia that's ready to go.  I plan to do one or two others this weekend or next.  Two other forms of follow-up are planned-first, more scrutiny of Barack Obama in light of this analysis and his failure to grasp what's going on, and second, a step back to discuss what the two sides are all about.  Broadly conceived, I will characterize them as hierarchy, authority and coercion on the right, versus equality, autonomy, and voluntary cooperation on the left.  These encompass a wide range of specific forms and culture expressions on both sides that have their differences with one another, but that all express similar fundamentals.

Paul Rosenberg :: Will The Real Culture War Please Stand Up???
A prelude paragraph in Wikipedia's discussion  of Gramsci's theory of hegemony states:
The analysis of hegemony (or "rule") was formulated by Antonio Gramsci to explain why predicted communist revolutions had not occurred where they were most expected, in industrialized Europe. Marx and his followers had advanced the theory that the rise of industrial capitalism would create a huge working class and cyclical economic recessions. These recessions and other contradictions of capitalism would lead the overwhelming masses of people, the workers, to develop organizations for self-defense, including labor unions and political parties. Further recessions and contradictions would then spark the working class to overthrow capitalism in a revolution, restructure the economic, political, and social institutions on rational socialist models, and begin the transition towards an eventual communist society. In Marxian terms, the dialectically changing economic base of society would determine the cultural and political superstructure. Although Marx and Engels had famously predicted this eschatological scenario in 1848, many decades later the workers of the industrialized core still had not carried out the mission.

Looking backwards, there is an obvious flaw in Marx's thinking, and that is the capacity of capitalism to adapt, including its adaptation to the class challenge.  This was perhaps most starkly demonstrated by the arch conservative Otto von Bismark seizing on the institution of universal health care in 1880 as a grand cooptation of the Social Democratic Party's powerful appeal to the German working class.  But cooptation is only one strategy.  Gramsci developed a more comprehensive analysis of the full range of measures involved, many of which were much less direct, but instead went to fundamental underlying attitudes.

Wikipedia continues:

Gramsci argued that the failure of the workers to make an anti-capitalist revolution was due to the successful capture of the workers' ideology, self-understanding, and organizations by the hegemonic (ruling) culture. In other words, the perspective of the ruling class had been absorbed by the masses of workers. In "advanced" industrial societies hegemonic cultural innovations such as compulsory schooling, mass media, and popular culture had indoctrinated workers to a false consciousness. Instead of working towards a revolution that would truly serve their collective needs, workers in "advanced" societies were listening to the rhetoric of nationalist leaders, seeking consumer opportunities and middle-class status, embracing an individualist ethos of success through competition, and/or accepting the guidance of bourgeois religious leaders.

One need not swallow the notion of "false consciousness" whole.  It's quite possible, for example, to see some of what attracted workers as realistic and possible for them individually, even if it were not possible for all workers, and even if everything promised did not really serve their interests.  The Marxist insistence on seeing things "objectively" from the point of view of class interests is not necessary to agree with the broader point that the whole package being sold to workers was at least partially, if not wholly, illusory.  Furthermore, two other points need noting here.  First, the benefits being offered were partly, if not largely, a result of the political pressures being brought to bear (as with Bismark's offer of universal health care).  Second, the logic of capitalism would eventually entail enormous unsuspected costs, as almost entire generations of men would be sacrificed on the battlefields of World War I.  Thus, while the pure Marxist viewpoint might overstate how much people were being fooled, other considerations would preserve the sense in which the bargain being offered to workers was not quite the deal it might superficial seem to be--a point that workers might grasp decisively if supported by an array of critical counter-institutions:

Gramsci therefore argued for a strategic distinction between a "war of position" and a "war of manoeuvre". The war of position is a culture war in which anti-capitalist elements seek to gain a dominant voice in mass media, mass organizations, and educational institutions to heighten class consciousness, teach revolutionary analysis and theory, and inspire revolutionary organization. Following the success of the war of position, communist leaders would be empowered to begin the war of manoeuvre, the actual insurrection against capitalism, with mass support.

Whether or not such a revolution would ever be possible, or desirable, it's much harder to deny the potential benefits of a much stronger set of counter-institutions that could have tempered the capitalist/imperialist influences dominating Europe from Marx's time to the end of WWII, a period in which European imperialism reached its peak, and then turned fratricidally destructive in two World Wars, costing tens of millions of lives, with a worldwide depression sandwiched in between.

More to the point for our immediate purposes, however, is the more general applicability of Gramsci's ideas, as Wikipedia goes on to note:

Although the analysis of cultural domination was first advanced in terms of economic classes, it can be applied more broadly. Gramsci's analysis suggested that prevailing cultural norms should not be viewed as "natural" or "inevitable". Rather, cultural norms - including institutions, practices, beliefs - should be investigated for their roots in domination and their implications for liberation.

It is precisely these more general categories--domination vs. liberation--that I submit still have applicability for us, and this is reflected in strong correlations between conservatism and authoritarianism on the one hand, and liberalism and liberation on the other.  In particular, one can think of conservatism as being fundamentally concerned to maintain and preserve the general structure of hierarchical society, as described by Social Dominance Theory (SDT), encapsulated in the following diagram:

SDT recognizes the existence of countervailing, "hierarchy attenuating" forces, including the legitimating myths listed, at the same time as it posits the general predominance of hierarchy enhancing forces.

Continuing:

Gramsci did not contend that hegemony was either monolithic or unified. Instead, hegemony was portrayed as a complex layering of social structures. Each of these structures have their own "mission" and internal logic that allows its members to behave in a way that is different from those in different structures. Yet, as with an army, each of these structures assumes the existence of other structures and by virtue of their differing missions, is able to coalesce and produce a larger structure that has a larger overall mission.

Thus, the diagram above is misleading to the extent that it suggests a single monolithic structure, when in fact different legitimating myths hold sway in different institutional settings.  Clearly the diagram is meant to describe the social system as a whole, but we should not, therefore, take it to deny the great diversity that actually exists, and that Gramsci's theory highlights. .

Continuing:

This larger mission usually is not exactly the same as the mission for each smaller structure, but it assumes and subsumes them. Hegemony works in the same manner. Each person lives their life in a way that is meaningful in their immediate setting, and, to this person the different parts of society may seem to have little in common with him. Yet taken as a whole, each person's life also contributes to the larger hegemony of the society. Diversity, variation, and free will seem to exist since most people see what they believe to be a plethora of different circumstances, but they miss the larger pattern of hegemony created by the coalescing of these circumstances. Through the existence of small and different circumstances, a larger and layered hegemony is maintained yet not fully recognized by many of the people who live within it. (See Prison Notebooks, pp. 233-38.)

In such a layered hegemony, individual common sense, which is fragmented, is effective in helping people deal with small, everyday activities. But common sense also inhibits their ability to grasp the larger systemic nature of exploitation and hegemony. People focus on immediate concerns and problems rather than focusing upon more fundamental sources of social oppression.[1]

The sort of hegemonic struggle we need to engage in means first of all recognizing how hegemony works, how micro-level common sense can thwart a larger understanding, and thus cannot simply be accepted as the foundation for all else.  Indeed, analyzing and understanding the micro-level "common-sense" assumptions people bring to the table is one of the most fundamental things we can do.  A simplistic failure to do this can be fatal to the larger enterprise.  A forthcoming diary will provide an example from Obama's MLK Day speech.  But the next diary will look at an example of hegemony in action--the ongoing "homeland security" takeover of academia.


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Paul, do you ever sleep (0.00 / 0)
or are the timestamps on this system out of whack?

Whatever, it's all good stuff.

Limbaugh used to quote Gramsci?  Since I rarely listen to him, I never knew that.  Amazing.  what did he say?

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


Yes! Yes! Yes! (0.00 / 0)
Yes, I sleep.

Yes, the timestamps are out of whack. (Though I was up ridiculously early this morning).

Yes, Liumbaugh discussed and quoted Gramsci, but I don't know if he did on air.  He did it in his second book, See, I Told You So.  You can read about it here.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Very interesting. (0.00 / 0)
I look forward to reading your future installments.

Interesting stuff, as usual, and thanks for.... (0.00 / 0)

.........continuing in the face of the willful ignorance of the 'Children's Crusade...'

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Curious where this goes (0.00 / 0)
If I understand you, the real fight seems not to be at the macro level, but at the micro.  This isn't nuclear warfare quite as much as it is viral warfare. 

I'm curious to see where this goes.

BTW, the progressive takeover of the Girl Scouts is almost as complete as the authoritarian take over of the Boy Scouts. 


At Last, The War of The Sexes Has REAL Resonance! (0.00 / 0)
And to think of all those Girl Scout cookies that I didn't buy!

But, seriously, I think it's pretty much total warfare.  Nuclear, viral, you name it.

Just don't bring a yogurt spoon to a nuclear war.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
But do bring a bunch of flowers to a nuclear war (0.00 / 0)
Where were you in the '60s, or did you actually miss it all?

I really think the way to win a culture war is to lead by example.  Become what you strive for.  And then make your side the hip, cool one, the side that is having all the fun.  Make their side the grumpy, old, selfish one.  Never lose your sense of humor or take yourself too seriously.

Really.  It isn't by passing out guns not knives, or nuclear bombs.  Real change is about defusing the bombs, not building bigger and better ones.  I can't see your culture war as transformative, just more of the same old culture war.

That's what depresses me so about all this wasted talent.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
You Bring Flowers To A Nuclear War, You've Got Ashes On Your Hands (0.00 / 0)
I can't believe you are playing with metaphors while totally ignoring the main thrust of this diary (you don't have to agree with it, just engage with it, at least a wee bit).

This is not about the content of discourse.  I am a charter member of the Lakoff school, all about nurturant parenting and all that good stuff.  But Lakoff is crystal clear about the need for institution building, and that's what I'm talking about here.

In terms of institution building, they've got the nuclear weapons, and we've got wooden sticks.  We're doing pretty well with our wooden sticks, but we've got to improve. And along comes Obama, saying we need yogurt spoons.

Sorry, but, no.

And as for bringing flowers to a nuclear war.  No, we don't need that either.

We need to bring rainforests to a global warming. That would work.  Or at least be a start.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes and no. (0.00 / 0)
My response to your diary is below. Why do you think Obama doesn;t support progressive institutions?  Here I'm responding to your yogurt spoon/nuclear war comment and your constant exhortations to bring guns not knives and now nuclear bombs to the culture war. I'm more the jujitsu school.  And I'm telling you that the culture war from our side was about fun and freedom and self-expression.  Gtanted, there was a bit too much irresponsibility, but war wasn't lost; too many on our side abandoned it, or got tired, and decided to buy in to consumerism, leaving the field to the backlashers.  Transformation is most certainly about fighting the same old war with bigger and better nukes.

I've read Lakoff, and I think he goes only so far.  There is a generational element he misses.  Many younger people are not so much father/mother as what someone called "islanders" who don't see themselves as integrally connected to the larger culture as older folks.  The 18-29 year olds do seem more team types, though, more like the GI generation.  Obama speaks to both.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Transformation is NOT (0.00 / 0)
NOT about fighting the same old war but with nuclear weapons.  Transformation is about changing the battlefield, changing the dimension, the paradigm, the metaphor, changing society.  People need to undergo at least some degree of personal transformation where they do not see politics as  a zero sum game or a means of ego gratification to be able to transform society.  Otherwise it is just more of the same, as I think we are seeing in this campaign.  More's the pity.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Again, You Misunderstand Lakoff (4.00 / 1)
This is precisely the difference between Strict Father and Nurturant Parent models, or paradigms, if you will.  And it's the difference between conservative hegemony going back to the time of the pyramids and beyond, and liberal counter-hegemony, which has its original roots in our evolution as small-band hunter-gatherers whose cooperative ethos was key to our survival.

Liberals have always been in a bind because their conservatives relentlessly take advantage of their generosity and non-adversarial attitude.  The solution is to fight back within a principled moral framework.  Just as nurturant parents discipline their children, but neither arbitrarily, nor violently, so too, liberals can fight back against conservatives quite forcefully, but without resorting to their utter immorality.  And that is what I am advocating.

The target is not helpless individuals, but the structures of hegemonic dominance.  You fight back by building and defending your institutions, and by using your language, your memes, your frames, your narratives.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Wrong Culture War (0.00 / 0)
I'm more the jujitsu school.  And I'm telling you that the culture war from our side was about fun and freedom and self-expression.

That's the wrong culture war.  That's the whole point of my diary--the "culture war" defined in terms of tie-dye vs. tractors is just smoke and mirrors.  The real culture war is for control of hegemonic institutions.  And jujitsu only comes into the picture once the war of position gives way to the war of movement.

I've read Lakoff, and I think he goes only so far.  There is a generational element he misses.  Many younger people are not so much father/mother as what someone called "islanders" who don't see themselves as integrally connected to the larger culture as older folks.  The 18-29 year olds do seem more team types, though, more like the GI generation.  Obama speaks to both.

I'm afraid that you've totally misconstrued Lakoff.  He's not writing about personal psychology.  He's writing about basic cognitive linguistic structures.  Two entirely different things.

And besides, when have Americans ever seen themselves as "integrally connected to the larger culture"?  If we were, we would have all stayed in the old country.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Fouth Generational Warfare (0.00 / 0)
Actually, if you really want to push the analogy to the point of almost being correct, this fight is a form of fourth generational warfare.

[ Parent ]
Link When You Say That, Partner! (0.00 / 0)
Ya hear? Here?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Link (0.00 / 0)
Good point.  I'm not sure what single link or description is best.  There is a blog on it here, though I haven't read it much, recently.  Not exactly leftist in any traditional sense, but important to understand nonetheless.

One of the important points is to separate the guerrillas (terrorists) themselves from the support they get from the surrounding community.  If the support dries up, the guerrillas just don't have the freedom to operate.  Conversely, there is only so much you can do to fight the guerrillas directly and often killing them directly can lead to them gathering more support, not less.  This is the talk we often have of winning the "hearts and minds" of potentially moderate supporters.

This is one reason I have some trouble with the war analogy, particularly when comparing bombs to spoons.  I just don't think it is that kind of war, even via analogy.


[ Parent ]
All Metaphors Are Partial (0.00 / 0)
Don't expect them to do everything.

A lot of folks in this conversation seem to be getting hung up on the metaphors' source domain, rather than the target domain they are meant to map onto and describe.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Metaphors (0.00 / 0)
Of course metaphors are only partial and imperfect, but when used correctly can help illuminate and clarify.  I dislike the war metaphors (sans the 4th gen stuff) because I think it leads us in the wrong direction.  War itself is a conservative frame, so it should surprise anyone it doesn't apply well to what we need to do.  You do a great job describing the actual job at hand here:

Liberals have always been in a bind because their conservatives relentlessly take advantage of their generosity and non-adversarial attitude.  The solution is to fight back within a principled moral framework.  Just as nurturant parents discipline their children, but neither arbitrarily, nor violently, so too, liberals can fight back against conservatives quite forcefully, but without resorting to their utter immorality.  And that is what I am advocating.

I think this is 100% correct.  But this does not map to the traditional war analogy well.

What you are describing is Tough Love.  There is an analogy I can go with.


[ Parent ]
Like It Or Not (0.00 / 0)
The war metaphor is quite appropriate, and ain't going away anytime soon.  Lakoff and Johnson wrote about this in Metaphors We Live By all the way back in 1980.  The metaphor "War IS Argument" has various entailments people use all the time without thinking:
      Your claims are indefensible.
      He attacked every weak point in my arguments.
      His criticisms were right on target.
      I demolished his argument.
      I've never won an argument with him.
      You disagree? Okay, shoot!
      If you use that strategy, he'll wipe you out.
      He shot down all of my arguments.

Cognitive metaphors work because they illuminate and organize our world.  They describe the more abstract and less known in terms of the more concrete and more familiar. Gramsci was simply expanding on that deeply ingrained cognitive metaphor.  Abandoing the metaphor, and/or arbitrarily trying to substitute another will only deprive us of the conceptual benefits inherent in cognitive metaphor--benefits hardwired into how our nervous systems work--and get in the way of the work we need to do.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes, or at least it should be. (0.00 / 0)


John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
I think you are wrong (0.00 / 0)
That Obama does not get this. He believes that the only solution to it is activism. You mention the left including "voluntary" cooperation. The problem is that you believe that that activism needs to be the organization of "progressives" where as Obama understands that one must awaken those that have been "indoctrinated into false consciousness", which includes people on who vote for Republicans (either Independents, Republicans, or Conservative Democrats). That's why when the Clintons attempt to supplant one false consciousness with another it is an issue (remember the hegemony is complexly layered). Remember the Clintons are part of this hegemony (I am not sure they always were, but they are now) and realize how through the help of new technologies how close Obama is to overthrowing them. Of course he must then wage a war against the larger Conservative beast, but even if he loses, if we see Dean, then Obama as a progression we may be getting closer to achieving success in the War of Position. Remember that what Obama promises with his success is "Light not Heat", with the idea of throwing the doors open on this structure so that the masses can hold "the system" accountable. Your basic premise that Obama is arguing against the "War of Culture" that you describe is wrong. He is actually against the "War of Culture" that hegemony have used to create the "false consciousness".

This Is The Strangest Comment (4.00 / 2)
Is like a puree--no, it is a puree of Obama-speak and my diary.  I can see perfectly clearly how you think you have answered me, but you have not cited a single specific fact in doing so.

I'm in awe!

Not only that, but you make unsupported claims that are, in fact, totally false:

The problem is that you believe that that activism needs to be the organization of "progressives" where as Obama understands that one must awaken those that have been "indoctrinated into false consciousness", which includes people on who vote for Republicans (either Independents, Republicans, or Conservative Democrats).

Strawman much???

This is just more of the hwegemonic centrist narrative I'm criticizing in the first place!

The whole point of the argument I am making is that Obama is not  doing what you claim he is, by showing how he echoes rather than challenges hegemonic assumptions, narratives, etc.

Everyone recognizes the need to reach out, the question is "How?"

It's my thesis that Obama's answer is "by selling out the base, or at least confusing the issue so much that no one is really sure of where I stand."

And that's simply not the kind of reaching out that I see any future in.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I thought you wanted a conversation (4.00 / 1)
I did not insult you (and therefore I would prefer not to be insulted). I just chose to disagree with you. You have also cited no Obama quotes to substantiate your argument. I apologize for extraploting your conversation to the conversation as a whole.

It seemed to me that you equated "culture war" of the past 50 years, with the Gramsci's version of "culture war" and extrapolated that you therefore equate conservatives and with "conservatives" and the left with "progressives". As I point out I think that equating the two is where you are wrong. If equating the "Culture War" was not your intent than just say so.

You seem to believe he selling out his base, but that is only true if what I have described above is your premise. Otherwise his base according to your analysis is those that have "false consciousness", this includes not only progressives, but could include Ron Paul followers and even some Huckabee followers that are disillusioned with the "The Establishment" that I would perceive as being much more analogous to  "conservatives".

And that "Establishment" may be equally to blame on both sides. As we watch the Democrats cave on FISA this becomes ever more apparent. Also in a "War of Position" policy positions would seem to not be necessary, it is a war about structure and process, precisely as Obama describes.

I understand that you do not see Obama in this light, but take a look from the eyes of an Obama supporter who has been volunteered and the following statement rings true:


"I am asking you to believe, not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I am asking you to believe in yours."


[ Parent ]
Much Better! (4.00 / 1)
I'm sorry if I insulted you.  But I was genuinely totally flummoxed by your first comment.  Now that you are laying both your presuppositions, and your understanding of mine, we have a real basis for communiction, if not agreement, and consequently your original comment makes a lot more sense to me.  (I honestly had no idea what you were driving at at all.)

You write:

It seemed to me that you equated "culture war" of the past 50 years, with the Gramsci's version of "culture war" and extrapolated that you therefore equate conservatives and with "conservatives" and the left with "progressives". As I point out I think that equating the two is where you are wrong. If equating the "Culture War" was not your intent than just say so.

You seem to believe he selling out his base, but that is only true if what I have described above is your premise. Otherwise his base according to your analysis is those that have "false consciousness", this includes not only progressives, but could include Ron Paul followers and even some Huckabee followers that are disillusioned with the "The Establishment" that I would perceive as being much more analogous to  "conservatives".

There are several problems with this, but I'll just highlight two:

(1) I have repeatedly argued that a clear majority of conservatives support the welfare state, while significant numbers of them support various other progressive policies as well.  Therefore, I do not automatically see conservatives--much less moderates or independents as the enemy.  To the contrary, my point is precisely that the greatest divide in American politics is between movement conservatism and garden variety conservatives.  And one of the main purposes behind demonizing liberals is to paper over this fact.  (I've been saying this since well before anyone ever heard of Barack Obama.)

Relatedly....

(2) The whole purpose of the Gramscian perspective is that it is not about the individuals.  It is all about the institutions, and the relatively small group of people responsible for creating and maintaining them within the larger hegemonic framework.  But these are precisely the folks who Obama wants to get all kissy face with, when they are the very last people we can sit down and make common cause with.

Finally, there is nothing abstract about him selling off his base.  He has trash-talked peace activists on several occassions.  He has consorted with outrageous homophobes.  And he has repeatedly denigrated or misrepresented secular humanists.  This is well-documented, and not the least bit abstract.  No amount of theorizing can make it disappear.

[a] And that "Establishment" may be equally to blame on both sides. As we watch the Democrats cave on FISA this becomes ever more apparent. [b] Also in a "War of Position" policy positions would seem to not be necessary, it is a war about structure and process, precisely as Obama describes.

This is rather jumbled from where I stand. 

[a] From my perspective, the Versailles Dems are wholly subservient to the movement conservatives.  They're like the old Washington Generals, who job it was to loose to the Harlem Globetrotters on a nightly basis.  They are not the counter-hegemonic opposition, and Barack Obama is not distinguishably different from any of them.  (Supporting Lieberman, opposing Murtha, voting to continue war funding, recycling rightwing narratives, etc., etc., etc.)

[b] I don't care what Barack describes.  I care what he does.  And he has done virtually nothing to support existing counter-hegemonic institutions or candidates associated with netroots--siding with Duckworth vs. Cegalis and Lieberman vs. Lamont, for example.  Nor has he challenged the sorts of narratives that come from hegemonic institutions--a fact that has periodically thrown the netroots into an uproar.

I understand that you do not see Obama in this light, but take a look from the eyes of an Obama supporter who has been volunteered and the following statement rings true:
"I am asking you to believe, not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I am asking you to believe in yours."

I'm sorry, but Ron Paul says that, too.  Everyone says that nowadays.  It's standard issue rhetoric, like fries at a burger joint.  I know that folks who love McDonalds swear its fries are like no others, but the folks who like Burger King say just the same thing.

So, we still may not agree.  But I think we can at least understand one another better.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Speeches and Rhetoric Will Not Change Hegemonic Institutions (4.00 / 1)
Obama is attempting to make people believe that if they vote for him he is going to involve them in saving themselves from the hegemonic institutions Paul describes that are working against them.

It is an electoral ploy, nothing else.

Not only is it unlikely that his campaign and possible election will change hegemonic institutions, but his speeches and rhetoric have the negative effect of co-opting the people who should be challenging the hegemonic institutions and interests with which Obama appears to be in complicity.


[ Parent ]
You have got to be kidding. (0.00 / 0)
Conservatives may be ignorant, but they sure as hell aren't stupid.  Paul lays out a critical analysis on the depth of their determination, and you respond with believe?  You can believe in god, good, and bad, but a politician?  This is exactly what is wrong with Obama and his campaign.  The whole thing is a cult.

[ Parent ]
Further thoughts (4.00 / 1)
Gramsci's answer to the question why workers never brought about the Marxist paradise is interesting and in many ways translatable to the US.  It squares with one of my favorite quotes about America, by Stephen Potter from "People of Plenty," publsihed in the early '50s:
"Few Americans feel entirely at ease with the slogan "Soak the rich," but the phrase "Deal me in" springs spontaneously and joyously to their lips."

And who can blame folks for wanting to be part of the middle class, or better if possible?  Who wants to identify with the losers?

But the US followed a different trajectory from Europe, and not just in the area of Bismarck's innovation of social insurance.  The US was influenced for so long by the frontier and the idea of the self-made man, and even after the closing of the frontier, entrepreneurship and innovation flourished and made that expansion of the middle class in the post-WWII years possible.  Of course, the fact that we had the only intact economy among industrialized nations helped too, more than most people realize.  Roosevelt is rightly seen as the man who saved capitalism, at least in the US, by putting a floor under most of the country, employing vast numbers of people first in public works projects and then in the war industries, achieving labor peace through collective bargaining, and creating a safety net through unemployment insurance, social security etc.

After the war, when Communism asserted, or reasserted, depending on ones point of view, its status as an enemy, the shared sacrifice of the war years broke down, along with the notion that "politics ends at the water's edge."  Still, there was a shared consensus about cultural norms among the elite, and it included internationalism, social mobility through publicly supported education, unionism and the safety net, and then steps toward racial equality.  When businesses were decentralized, there was a sense of responsibility towards workers, borrowers etc.  The watchword of the 1950's, as I remember it, was "togetherness," whether family, community, or nation.  And even if it didn't originally extend to other races, when the civil rights movement began, the idea grew among the elite that this was an injustice that had to be remedied, not the least because of the damage it did to us abroad, but alsdo because it was inconsistent with American ideals.

Then came the '60s, when the Boomers wanted to end all that stultifying conformity, increase self-expression and remedy every injustice.

Then came the backlash, which, as Rick Perlstein (and you) have so painstakingly pointed out, was very well thought out and carefully planned, including a vicious onslaught on cultural norms and the popular understanding of economics.  Workers who hated the ungrateful college students voted for Reagan the union buster, as did people fearful that the pace of social change was taking away their status to the extent it was based on race and gender, and confused or appalled by sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll.  Out of the chaos came the new mantras--greed is good, you are what you make of yourself, screw everyone else I want mine.  Communitarianism got confused with Communism, making it easier for the reassertive GOP to divide and conquer.

I do think Obama thinks the fundamental problem is that we have lost our sense of community, that selfishness and narrow self-interest is celebrated and that 95% of us are
left out of the new prosperity or barely hanging on, and that we've exchanged our citizenship for consumerism.  But I think his diagnosis of what's wrong and how to overcome it is much deeper than you give him credit for.  He wants to restore a sense of shared purpose so that "the people" can outflank or overcome the entrenched interests and become an engine for change.  True, he isn't so interested in changing the cultural symbols (we have Hollywood for that, except that they as much or more than anyone worship at the altar of the dollar) or building new think tanks.  But he is certainly behind reforms that strengthen unions, increase transparency, disseminate more information, make voting more fair and secure, strengthen the safety net and increase opportunities for advancement.  I don't know where you get the idea he thinks we can all just "get along" without serious work or institutional reforms.

He jsut doesn't believe in demonizing anyone who is a poltntial member of the coalition.  As several people have pointed out in other threads, progressivism, succeeds only when it is as inclusive as possible, when the bosses really fear the people, as happened in 1932 with all the strikes and Hoovervilles and the Bonus Army marching on Washington. That's when they give up at least enough power to forestall revolution.  Without a visionary leader, we are left with small-bore initiatives that in the end just shore up a corrupt system, and people see nothing more to life than cheap Chinese goods from Wal-Mart and rooting for the local sports franshise. 

Some people see what is and ask why.  Others see what could be and ask why not?  We need both.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


I Mostly Agree, But... (0.00 / 0)
You do leave some folks out of the picture back in the 1940s--NAM, the Taft Republicans, Nixon and McCarthy, just a few little details.  (Sure, Nixon thought the entire establishment was against him, but surely by now we know how flawed his judgment was where his own person was concerned.)  And you overgeneralize in other ways I'd normally object to.  But I can go along for the ride for purposes of your argument, as indeed, I take to be the spirit in which it was made.

Where I run into trouble, however, is that Obama's reforms are good, they are necessary, but not sufficient.  Without building counter-hegemonic power, all those openings won't amount to very much.

And where we really start to diverge is here:

He jsut doesn't believe in demonizing anyone who is a poltntial member of the coalition.

Actually, he doesn't have much trouble demonizing those on the left (cheap shots at peace activists, bogey men secularists, second-class citizenship for gays).

As several people have pointed out in other threads, progressivism, succeeds only when it is as inclusive as possible,

Actually, the Progressives were not all that comfy with the working class, didn't trust unions, and the immigrant working class!  They were all about blocking the socialists and keeping them out of power.

when the bosses really fear the people, as happened in 1932 with all the strikes and Hoovervilles and the Bonus Army marching on Washington.

But that wasn't the doing of progressives!  That was the very people that the progressives see as an unruly mob.

That's when they give up at least enough power to forestall revolution.  Without a visionary leader, we are left with small-bore initiatives that in the end just shore up a corrupt system, and people see nothing more to life than cheap Chinese goods from Wal-Mart and rooting for the local sports franshise.

Some people see what is and ask why.  Others see what could be and ask why not?  We need both.

Well, we both knew Bobby Kennedy, at least from his speeches.  And I think it's transparently obvious that Obama is no Bobby Kennedy.  He is, however, somewhat similar to John.  But Bobby was the one who actually broke away.  John only gestured.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Mixing terms (0.00 / 0)
I try not to put everything I know into each post. Thus, I generalize a bit for brevity's sake.  I do remember Nixon and Taft and McCarthy, and Vandenberg and Marshall and MacArthur, and lots, lots more. There just wasn't room for it all.

Your response mixes "Progressive" in the historical sense (a movement in the early part of the 20th Century identified with reforms like direct election of Senators and something very different demographically and geographically from Populism, especially Prairie populism) with progressive as we use it today (a replacement for "liberalism" and a movement to expand equality and participation in society and aganst entrenched interests).  That's the way I meant it, and why I didn't capitalize it.  I do think that progress (is that clearer?) comes easier if there are more people pushing for it; thus inclusiveness is good.  As you pointed out last weekend, it took King and the civil rights movement, as well as a shift in elite consensus that racism was bad for the US, and LBJ taking a stand for what was right, to get the civil rights legislation passed. 

Obama is neither JFK nor Bobby Kennedy.  He probably does not have their ruthlessness, certainly not their womanizing, or Jack's constant illness and pain. He is bright and charismatic, and I agree more cool (JFK) than hot (RFK). JFK was a remarkably inspiring President for the college classes of '63-65 (my cohort).  And Bobby K did embody a kind of passion that really resonated in 1968.  But in 40 years the world has changed, as well as you and I.  Obama is now.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Demonizing (0.00 / 0)
And where we really start to diverge is here:

He jsut doesn't believe in demonizing anyone who is a poltntial member of the coalition.

Actually, he doesn't have much trouble demonizing those on the left (cheap shots at peace activists, bogey men secularists, second-class citizenship for gays).

Perhaps I have missed some quote or another, but I haven't seen much demonization from Obama.  What, exactly, are you referring to?


[ Parent ]
A Prime Example (0.00 / 0)
Here's the sort of thing I have in mind, from a diary I wrote in late 2006, "Obama vs. ISG: Yes Blood For Oil!":

Cross-posted from Patterns That Connect

On Dec 04, Chris Bowers post, "The Two Obamas and Me, Part One" contrasted the principle-driven Obama who first inspired tremendous netroots support with the compromise-driven Obama who now seems intent on demonizing the very people who helped get him his start. Chris cited this example:

In town-hall meetings, when those who opposed the war get shrill, Obama makes a point of noting that while he, too, opposed the war, he's "not one of those people who cynically believes Bush went in only for the oil."

Chis followed up:

Did anyone with any power every say that? Did any leading Democrats ever say that? Did any progressive or liberal of any public stature ever say that? If they did, I'd love to see the quote.

Well, now it appears that someone has come quite close to saying that: The Baker/Hamilton Iraq Study Group (ISG).

Privatizing Iraq's oil is one of their fundamental recommendations—regardless of what the Iraqis want.  Democracy—well, that was always an afterthought.

You can follow the links from this diary, and see Obama both depricating and betraying the anti-war activists whose support was crucial to making him a viable Senate candidate in the first place, and doing so in a way that is palpably foolish.  The very arguments he mocks by recasting them in trivial form turn out to be highly salient--and most uncomfortable for defenders of empire, which just so happens to include Obama in their number.

Not a pretty picture.

But you asked.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
An alternative strategy for winning the "culture war" (4.00 / 1)
My understanding, which I think is consistent with Paul's explanation of the Gramscian view, is that the right-win cultural hegemony is strongly supported by a web of institutions. But, as I try to explain below, I think its fueled by other important elements, which I believe Obama's strategy is designed to address.

First a brief overview on how I see the key institutional elements.

Some key hegemony-enforcing institutions function mainly in terms of directing dollar flows.  While these include large corporations and private, public and hybrid financial institutions, they also include a political system that is largely controlled by dollar flows and therefore has a strong bias toward serving the interests of those with the most dollars.

Other related institutions function mainly in the sphere of "media" and "messaging" (e.g., TV, advertising and the more subtle "follow-up" personal communications they engender, such as celebrity obsession/gossip; as well as well-funded "experts," think tanks and academics). 

Our courts comprise a related set of hegemony-supporting institutions, since, over time, they've been "packed" (particularly in key jurisdictions, such as those that review federal regulations) with right-wing ideologues who have intepreted the laws passed by politically corrupted legislatures from within staunch (and sometimes quite irrational) right-wing legal perspectives. 

Assuming this overview is in the same general ballpark as Paul's analysis regarding what we face (and implicitly, what we need to displace), I'll shift my focus to one area in which I'm inclined to see things differently than Paul, which relates to the meaning and value of what Obama is saying and offering.

This difference is tied to our perceptions of what are the most effective strategies and tactics for winning the "war of position" and then the "war of manoeuvre," which Paul cites in his post. 

If I'm understanding him correctly, Paul sees a failure of strategic perception in statements such as the following from Obama's MLK Day speech, which he quoted.

"The believer condemns the non-believer as immoral, and the non-believer chides the believer as intolerant."

Paul inteprets Obama's statement a particular way and, if I'm understanding him correctly, sees it as a fundamental failure to make a vital distinction and therefore to "echo rightwing narratives and rightwing-friendly Versaille narratives, rather than challenging them."

Well, sorry, but the believer and the unbeliever aren't equivilent in this exchange.  They're assymetrical, even in Obama's formulation, but Obama just can't see it.  His presuppositions blind him to the plain facts right in front of his face.  And it's his presuppositions that I am criticizing, and trying to draw out into the open, in order to examine and understand.

While I don't see Obama really drawing the equivalence Paul sees in his statement, the most significant element of Obama's speech--and his overall messaging and positioning--does not, in my view, depend on how near the mark Paul's critique is with regard to parsing of language.  More important to me is that Obama seems to be trying to promote a "polical communication environment" that is amenable to truly effective challenges to right-wing cultural and political hegemony. 

Let me try to explain...

While the institutions cited above (and probably others) are key structural and functional elements of cultural hegemony, I believe its important to also understand that the "psychological fuel" they feed, and which feeds their continued hegemonic influence, is what I might describe as "aggravated and midirected fear and anger." 

This mass-scale psychologically-debilitated and lizard-brain-triggering state of consciousness, fed on a daily basis by heavy MSM-consumption is, in my view, a pivotal human symptom with regard to the maintenance of right-wing cultural hegemony.

In a discussion with Matt in a recent thread I referenced this key dynamic:

"[Rightwing hegemony strategists and their foot soldiers] love the fog of political war, because it neutralizes everything, and keeps citizens from focusing on and understanding what's important and beneficial for them, and who is really saying and doing what.  And it feeds nicely into the MSM he-said-she-said narrative, which only makes the fog more dense..


From my (and perhaps Obama's) perspective, the highest-leverage and most pivotal factor in turning the tide of the war we've been losing for a number of decades is not at the level of parsing and intepreting statements with regard to their support or lack thereof for various political narratives. 

That's not to say that such efforts cannot be very useful in trying to understand and influence candidates, especially with regard to the details of their messaging strategy.  But I believe this focus on parsing and intepreting statements in relation to political narratives largely ignores--and may very well aggravate in today's environment--what I believe is a more important factor and challenge in turning the tide of the culture war.

What I think Obama is trying to do (with only modest and probably insufficient success at this point), is to stop fueling the "fear-anger" mechanism that turns the external fog of political war into an internal fog of misdirected negative emotion and confused thinking for too many Americans.

Since this "fear-anger" mechanism is already in a "high-alert hair-trigger" state for many Americans (as reflected in a growing number of campaign-focused blog threads, media converage and polls), I (and Obama?) see benefits in actions and words that shift the mix of that fuel. 

Obama describes this as "more light not more heat."  I might use a gasoline metaphor in which emotional passion, including anger, outrage and other change-focused emotions are the petrol, and mental clarity is the oxygen.  If the mix is too heavy on the petrol--and especially if its main ingredient is chronically-manipulated primal fear--there won't be enough oxygen to generate a strong- and reliable-enough ignition, which in turn is needed to keep the engine running and the vehicle moving forward. 

And, to extend the metaphor even further, a noisy, failing engine is likely to distract the driver from the essential tasks of steering, reading the map and other things necessary to get to the desired destination.  Not to mention that valves and other "engine parts" are likely to run poorly after becoming coated with fuel that isn't ignited due to lack of oxygen. 

I'd argue that a similar dynamic applies to communication channels and mental capacities that become coated with negative-emotion-laden and hegemony-supporting perceptions and beliefs, due to insufficient inputs of relevant information, logical explanations, and less-fear-based emotional states that allow these inputs to be more fully digested and, thereby, to support increased mental clarity and more rational decisionmaking and behaviors.

Of course, if there's no petrol (i.e., passion) there also won't be any ignition or forward movement.  The balance is key.  And my (and, I think, Obama's) point is that rightwing Republicans and all good political hegemony strategists and tacticians understand that all they have to do is to keep the mix sufficiently skewed toward fear and, if there's a potentially healthy source of oxygen flow in the area, make sure its negated by the carbon-dioxide-filled hot air of sophistic and/or hateful punditry.

I respect Obama's strategy because I believe it couples the goal of reducing the fear-drenched fog of political war with an apparent appreciation for the value of systemic and institutional change, including the role of technology.  This latter element of his strategy is exemplified by his tech policies, which include support for an open and technically evolving Internet, coupled with innovative--and potentially very potent--steps to open up citizen-government communication channels, and to make these channels more symmetrical, in terms of both information flows and influence.

I believe Obama has been trying to remain true to this strategy but has been thrown off by the Clinton strategy, which I see as a clever and seemingly (and unfortunately) effective strategy for adding more layers of fog to the current political communication environment, an environment that remains largely controlled by the dominant institutions and dynamics cited earlier in my post, and which do not support progressive change.

I see the Clintons and their team using a variation of the "statement parsing analysis" used by Paul and others, but doing so for reasons and in ways that are fundamentally dishonest and destructive.  Because their goal is to intensify and exploit the fog of political war, they lose some respect in my book, at least for the "sin" of seriously disconnecting means from ends, which makes folks like me doubt their ability to pursue the ends with sufficient commitment, focus and integrity.

In contrast, my differences with Paul relate mainly to questions of strategic priority and effectiveness and, secondarily, to questions of interpeting meaning, intent and context. 

My sense is that Paul believes Obama's fundamentally missing key elements of strategy and that he very likely fails to understand the nature and meaning of the "culture war" and, at the very least, how to win it.

My view is that, under the circumstances, Obama is prioritizing strategic elements more or less correctly, with mixed execution, and that he's an adequate, mainly sincere, smart-enough--but certainly not perfect-- candidate to serve as a president that can (and wants to) help turn the tide in the "culture war" in a fundamentally more progressive direction. 

If I could clone an ideal candidate by blending their DNA, I'd probably go with a mix of something like 40% Obama, 40% Edwards, 10% Clinton, and leave 10% to make sure we included the most valuable characteristics of the others that were in the race.  Since the technology's not yet there for this solution, my preference would be for an Obama/Edwards ticket (with the latter having a Bond-like "license to fight" in the service of his fellow-citizens), with Clinton continuing to "work hard" to help get things done in the Senate. 


Some really good points here (0.00 / 0)
You have really advanced the discussion here.

I do think Obama is trying to ratchet down the temperature so everyone isn't so knee-jerk reactivce and we can actually try to start to solve problems.  Your analysis here is very good.  Good point to bring up obama's tech and transparency stuff.  His voting rights work also shows an interest in institutional change.  But one person can't do everything, and right now he's trying to change the terms of the political discussion/campaign.  Your metaphors explain that well.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
And I say (4.00 / 1)
that "meeting our opponents halfway" down a path that has already done enormous damage to the nation concedes too much.

You can't win without a fight.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Clearing a path for more to join us (0.00 / 0)
Its not really about "meeting our opponents halfway," though I think that is sometimes necessary, especially when non-strategic things are at stake (i.e., what you want isn't that important to me and vice versa).

What it is about is doing our best to avoid escalating the "fog infestation" process I describe, by using language that's less likely to trigger bias, fear and other rationality-reducing responses from the folks you want and/or have to work with--especially citizens and leaders that are not overly steeped in an oppositional mentality and/or desperate to retain their positions of power.

So, instead of "meeting our opponents halfway," what I'm talking about is calmly and confidently holding our ground, and using communication to clear a path for some of the opposition to walk over and join us.

I see this as a valuable aspect of Obama's comments regarding religion and "believers."  As Zack Exley has been chronicling on his RevolutioninJesusland site (and was discussed on NOW last night), there's a growing generational gap in the evangelical community in which younger pastors and churchmembers are rejecting the "thou shalt harshly judge thy neighbor, especially if they're gay" message of older and more political pastors, and shifting, to varying degrees, to a perspective that focuses on the teachings of Jesus related to "loving thy neighbor," "helping the poor," etc.

While issues like abortion and gay rights remain a significant point of disagreement between political progressives and these evangelicals, my sense is that some (perhap a significant) portion of them will be able to shift their priorities enough to embrace a candidate (yes, even a Democrat) that does not agree with them that the government should stop abortions or restrict the rights of gay citizens.

To me, these folks, and the prospect for mutually respectful political dialogs with them (and for having some choose to walk over to join us, at least on some issues), are a very good example of the potential value of Obama's strategy.

How would Jesus vote?  Its a good question, and one I'd like to encourage Christian "believers" to consider.  I believe some are willing to sincerely do so, especially if they feel that those inviting them to take that step have respect and appreciation for their point of view. 


[ Parent ]
Are you sure it's dishonest? (4.00 / 1)
I see the Clintons and their team using a variation of the "statement parsing analysis" used by Paul and others, but doing so for reasons and in ways that are fundamentally dishonest and destructive.  Because their goal is to intensify and exploit the fog of political war, they lose some respect in my book, at least for the "sin" of seriously disconnecting means from ends, which makes folks like me doubt their ability to pursue the ends with sufficient commitment, focus and integrity.

I'm not sure why you see the Clintons here being fundamentally  dishonest and destructive.  Obama brought Reagan into the Democratic campaign for no good reason that I can see and HRC's attack on same is fair game.  Yes, I  know that Reagan was the most successful at transforming the landscape, as Obama says.  But as one who sees one of the most important goals of a new Democratic administration as reversing as much of Reagan-Bushonomics as possible, why be coy about this?  Why couch this as Obama did in seeming GOP-speak - Republicans the party of ideas, etc.  Yes, they were ideas, yes, Reagan was successful in implementing them but they were terrible ideas.  And they haven't been discredited on the plane of ideas yet, not by a long shot.  In 1980, George H. W. Bush called Reagan's policies "Voodoo Economics".  Today, not one Republican candidate dissents from the idiocy that cutting taxes increases government revenue, and not one member of the MSM other than Paul Krugman will call them on it.  We don't need to pander to this idiocy, we need to fight it!

While the Clintons DO have the baggage of having had and failed some kind of chance to reverse this, it's not completely clear to me that they don't still have the desire to do so.  So I can't say they're being dishonest when they make these claims.  Of course I can't prove they do have this desire, either.  But by maintaining the stance of opposition to Reaganism, it seems to me that at the very least they avoid giving themselves a fifteen yard penalty at the start.  Obama's rhetoric moves himself and us further from the goal line.

To give Obama the maximum credit I can, he seems to want to charm the holders of this lunacy with gentle persuasion and somehow lead them to the light, which he believes he can do. I don't believe he can.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Maybe he can charm the followers, and they press the leaders (0.00 / 0)
It's kind of hard to talk about modern political history, and about the whole concept of transformation without mentioning Reagan.  Obama's comments were part of a very long discussion.

This is really good from a comment 1-2 above.

But I believe this focus on parsing and intepreting statements in relation to political narratives largely ignores--and may very well aggravate in today's environment--what I believe is a more important factor and challenge in turning the tide of the culture war.

What I think Obama is trying to do (with only modest and probably insufficient success at this point), is to stop fueling the "fear-anger" mechanism that turns the external fog of political war into an internal fog of misdirected negative emotion and confused thinking for too many Americans.

Worth repeating.  And go see Matt's new post.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
How about actual transformation? (0.00 / 0)
t's kind of hard to talk about modern political history, and about the whole concept of transformation without mentioning Reagan.

I'm not interested in talking about the concept of transformation.  I'm interested in seeing an actual transformation -- away from Reagan-Bushism.

If that is Obama's goal, and I sure hope it is, why inflict a penalty on himself at the start that moves him further from the goal?

I'm with Paul Krugman on this one, who thinks Obama was merely pandering to a conservative Nevada newspaper editor.  I hope he's learned a lesson from this.

I'd have more respect for your position if you viewed this as an insignificant mistake, rather than a profound strategic insight, because I don't see the strategy here.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Maybe "hypocritical" is a better description. (0.00 / 0)
As others have pointed out (I don't have links, but can dig them up), both Clintons have praised Reagan in ways that, in my view, go significantly beyond what Obama said, and more in relation to the substance of his policies.  That tells me that their critique is born not of substance, but because it gives them political advantage. 

And, as I read them, their prior "praise" of Reagan indicates they don't really disagree with Obama's point, which then makes their current statements not only politically expedient (which is fine), but dishonest.

That being said, I do believe that the Clintons want to learn from their past mistakes and do bring positive experience to the table.  That's just not decisive for me at this point.


[ Parent ]
Here's a link (0.00 / 0)
that shows the possible upside of a Clinton admin, the reason for hope.  Nothing I've heard from Obama on these subjects pleases me as much, and nothing would make me happier than hearing something from him that does.

I imagine the Times will have an "If Elected" on Obama soon.  They've had them on McCain, Edwards and Clinton so far.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the link. (0.00 / 0)
Given the likelihood she's going to get the nomination, I'd love to feel more positive and hopeful about Clinton.

[ Parent ]
Big Picture, Yes On Both Counts, Fine Tuning, Not So Much (0.00 / 0)
You've got the culture war part about the various institutions down cold. In fact, I may quote from this comment in a future diary.  And I agree with your general point that there is validity to Obama's approach in trying to defuse the anger/confusion/fear factor.

However, the agreement ends when we look at the overall package that Obama presents and how he delivers it.

There are several problems here, and I throw them out in no particular order:

(1) The American public has turned against the GOP, "big time" as their #2 war criminal would say.  Therefore the need to mitigate the anger/confusion/fear factor has a much lower priority than it would have had in the last presidential cycle.  This doesn't mean it's not still important, and you better your booties that the GOP will do its best to ratchet it up to 11 again this time around.  But it does mean that there's a considerable opening to talk about and do other things as well, and Obama has largely squandered this opportunity.

(1a) In particular, there were many progressives like me who were eager to support him, but got all kinds of mixed messages that turned us off.  If he had had us--and not just the high-info folks like me, but the folks being polled in the entrance or exit polls--then he might well have ended the primary already, and would at least be positioned to do so on Super-Duper Tuesday.  Instead, he's struggling to stay in the game.

(2) There are some very popular positions that Obama could have taken quite clearly, and boldly staked out as his own.  He has the vast majority of the more progressive Democratic foreign policy establishment with him, for example.  He could have crafted a clear alternative to the "war on terror" framework, and made it a centerpiece of his campaign.  There is virtually no downside with this in terms of losing potential independents and even Republicans, as PIPA (the Project on International Policy Alternatives) found that most Bush supporters mistakenly believed that he was far more multi-lateralist, diplomacy- and rule-of-law-oriented than he actuall was.  Hence, an approach built on that foundation would be inherently quite acceptable to a broad majority of the American people, including a majority of Bush-supporters.  (Even the 30%!)

(3) He could be pushing other explicitly liberal (in the Lakoff Nurturant Parent mode) policy frameworks that have broad inherent appeal across partisan boundaries.  Huckabee, for example, has clearly raised the salience of economic populist issues.  A policy frame that fits this hand-in-glove is Jaob Hacker's argument in The Great Risk Shift that risk inequality is an even more threatening reality that wealth or income inequality, and that ameliorating it can be addressed by arguing that risk reduction creates opporunity by enhancing basic security--it's not just about taking care of folks on the down and out, it's about providing security so that folks can invest in new enterprises--their own education and training, starting a new business, whatever.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  It doesn't have to be either/or.  There was a lot of both/and potential that Obama simply ignored.  And had he not, he could well have already wound up the nomination--and how much more formidable would that have made him?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Squandered opportunities (4.00 / 1)
Good points.

Obama started to lose me when he wouldn't let one bit of daylight (other than the 2002 speech) between himself and Clinton's position.  Or when he retreated at the first sign of media fire from the few tentative steps he'd taken in opposing Bush' foreign policy.  What has he done for me lately, I have to ask.

Economic populist issues are another.  You're right about Huckabee, I think Huckabee played a role in destroying Romney with his ("he doesn't just look like the guy who outsourced your job, he is the guy who outsourced your job") comment.  Not that I can stand Huckabee in general, but it galls me that Obama runs away from anything close to this.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
I don't disagree (0.00 / 0)
On first read I don't think I disagree with anything you said in this comment.  I hope Obama and his staff read it as well, and that their response is "This is a great critique of our shortcomings so far.  We should immediately integrate it into our strategy."

Perhaps we don't disagree on too much here, except my focus is "I'm glad Obama's trying to do what he seems to be trying to do," while yours--as this comment nicely lays out--is that he could be doing it a lot more effectively.

You may also be saying that the extent of Obama's  "execution" failures thus far put into question not only his ability to execute, but also his intent and underlying beliefs.  I'm not inclined to share those doubts very much (assuming you do harbor them), but I don't totally discount them. 

Perhaps you see more clearly than I do how full the "Obama candidacy" glass potentially could be.  I'm mainly saying it seems to contain some relatively clean and drinkable water and that, if that continues to be the case, we can collectively keep filling it up (e.g., Obama's perceived "pandering" and his open-govt proposals are indications that he's influenceable, including by progressives). 

To continue my latest overstretched metaphor, my concern is that the powers that be on the right know better than anyone else how to make sure all the water glasses have been pissed in, with everyone too grossed out to drink or keep filling.


[ Parent ]
I Do Harbor Those Doubts (0.00 / 0)
But I'd be pleased as punch to have them laid to rest.

I'd be very happy to see these ideas picked up.

And I'm very glad to hear you respond like this.  This is precisely what I'm trying to accomplish--establish a dialogue that uses Obama's candidacy to discuss some very important meta-issues, without needing to agree on his candidacy itself.

It's inherently highly likely that such a conversation will produce insights that will never come from conversations that only include supporters or non-supporters.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Paul, do you ever sleep (0.00 / 0)
or are the timestamps on this system out of whack?

Whatever, it's all good stuff.

Limbaugh used to quote Gramsci?  Since I rarely listen to him, I never knew that.  Amazing.  what did he say?

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


sorry for the double post (0.00 / 0)


sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

[ Parent ]
For Some Reason, I Feel Like Asking You A Steely Dan Question In Retaliation (0.00 / 0)
[Yes, sleep deprivation is setting in.]

but the first one that pops into my head is, "Where did you get those shoes?"

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Organic Intellectuals (0.00 / 0)
Great stuff as usual, as is the dialogue.

I hope you'll include some thoughts on Gramsci's vision of "organic intellectuals."  One of the key points he made, as I understand him, was that organic intellectuals for particular groups had to be people who were deeply immersed in the culture of those groups, one way or another.  Not that a president can be an organic intellectual for everyone.  Obama is an organic intellectual of the elite educated class, with some connection, largely through his Alinsky organizing, to other groups.  Of course, so is Clinton and Edwards, in different ways. 

How does this idea of organic intellectuals, and the need for them relate to your argument.  And to be clear, Gramsci was talking about LEADERS when he said intellectuals.  Anyone who provided a framework for understanding of the larger world and strategies for action would be one of these.  So a great union leader like John L. Lewis of the CIO early in the century would have counted, as would Frederick Douglass. 

Not that you should answer now.  But I wanted to put this bug in your ear, so to speak. 

Thanks for keeping this dialogue going.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


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