Making Democratic Delegates More Democratic

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 14:51


In a truly geeky, political junkie way, I am finding this discussion over how democratic super delegates actually are to be quite interesting. So, in the extended entry, I have placed a long post describing first how pledged delegates are less democratic than people think, second how the delegate selection system can be made a lot more democratic, and third listing the many benefits of my proposals. If you are a political junkie who loves process, I think you will really like this post.
Chris Bowers :: Making Democratic Delegates More Democratic
First, here are the many ways that pledged delegates really are not all that democratic themselves:

  1. Caucuses. For numerous reasons, caucuses are less than a perfect example of democracy. First, there is no secret ballot. Second, there is no absentee voting. Third, caucuses are only open for an hour or two, far less than the twelve hours or more than polls are usually open. Fourth, there isn't even a popular vote count in most caucuses, only a delegate count. Fifth, in many caucus systems, at county and state conventions, precinct delegates don't even have to caucus for the candidate for whom they were "elected" to caucus for at the next level. In short, caucuses are pretty heinously undemocratic, at least at the level of Super Delegates. Yet, 447 pledged delegates will be determined via caucuses, not even counting Texas which is a primary / caucus hybrid. Further, the important, momentum-giving results from Iowa and Nevada were determined via caucuses, as well.

  2. The 15% rule. Across the entire nation, no congressional district or statewide delegates are awarded to candidates who fail to reach a 15% "viability" threshold. This means that large percentages of Democrats don't have their votes counted at all. For example, according to the Iowa entrance poll, 16% of caucus-goers went in with the intention of caucusing for someone other than Clinton, Edwards or Obama. Cumulatively, those 16% of Democratic Iowa caucus goers scored zero delegates. Four years ago, in New Hampshire, 30.25% of Democrats voted for someone other than John Kerry or Howard Dean, and yet they received zero delegates (including Edwards and Wesley Clark supporters, each of whom saw their candidates top 12%, and yet receive no delegates). The 15% viability threshold is not particularly democratic, and yet all 3,253 pledged delegates are allocated according to this rule.

  3. Different Voting Rules In Different States. Depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to vote in a Democratic primary or caucus. In some states, primaries are "closed," and only registered Democrats can vote. In other states, primaries are "semi-open," where only registered Independents and Democrats can vote. In still other states, anyone can vote in any primary she wishes. While I know there are different positions on this issue (I favor closed primaries with same day registration, personally), the lack of consistency is not particularly democratic.

  4. Geography determines delegates, not population. About 65% of pledged delegates are dished out at the congressional district level, with about 35% are allocated at the statewide level. Not only is that division completely arbitrary, it also leads to a situation where, in a relatively close election, a candidate who did not win the popular vote can win the most pledged delegates. This has already happened so far this cycle, since it appears that Obama has won more pledged delegates in Nevada despite apparently having less popular support among caucus-goers than Hillary Clinton. Yeah, that's super democratic.

  5. Primary Calendar. One of the least democratic aspects of the pledged delegate system is the primary calendar itself. While super delegates can make up their mind at their leisure, pledged delegates are doled out on 19 unevenly spaced dates from January 3rd through June 3rd. How the hell is that democratic, especially given that different candidates are on the ballot at different times, and when prior knowledge of the vote in other states will inexorably have an impact on future votes? Further, two states, Florida and Michigan, saw their pledged delegates stripped entirely because they violated primary calendar rules. I'm pretty sure New Hampshire violated primary calendar rules as well, but did not receive a similar punishment. Again, not very democratic.

  6. Delegates themselves. At the convention, so-called pledged delegates are only "pledged" to a candidate on the first ballot. After that point, they become exactly like Super Delegates, and can vote for whomever they please during subsequent ballots. Further, most candidates "release" their delegates before the convention, making them in no way different from super delegates. Yet further, the entire concept of a delegate system isn't democratic at all-it is clearly a republican form of government (although, I admit, that might simply be a semantic point).

So, even after the first five caveats are factored in, pledged delegates are only functionally different from super delegates for one ballot at the convention (some aren't different at all, if they are "released" by a candidate who drops out). And, as I noted in my first post on this subject, all super delegates are elected by other Democrats in either Democratic primaries or at state party committee meetings. Granted, during those elections, no one knows whom those super delegates will support in an upcoming nomination campaign, and that isn't very democratic, either. However, that is only one caveat (two if you include the Super Delegates determined at state committee meetings), and it is worth considering how that caveat measures up against the first five caveats against pledged delegates listed here. At that point, when determining whether the election of pledged delegates or super delegates is more democratic, such a debate is clearly comparing degrees of democracy. Neither the election of pledged delegates nor the election of super delegates occupying a position anywhere near one extreme or the other.

Now, I'm not just being contrary for the sake of contrary in this post. By pointing out that super delegates are more democratic than people think, and that pledged delegates are less democratic than people think, I'm not simply reliving my days as a critical theory instructor. Rather, even though pledged delegates are probably a bit more democratic than super delegates, an important question arises: what can and should be done to make our system of nominating a candidate for President more democratic? Here are some suggestions:

  1. Eliminate caucuses as a means of determining pledged delegates. For al of the reasons I listed above, caucuses are simply too much of an affront to democratic and Democratic principles to be used as a means of deciding delegates. Caucuses are so bad that I simply can't take any of the claims of "voter suppression" in the Nevada caucuses seriously. I mean, the entire caucus system is voter suppression, for crying out loud. Picking out certain parts of the caucus system that campaigns thought were particularly suppressive of the vote strikes me as cherry-picking. If state parties want to continue to use caucuses to determine, say ballot placement, that is fine. However, otherwise the DNC should start denying pledged delegates to all caucuses.

  2. Give out all pledged delegates on a statewide basis. The arbitrary split of pledged delegates between congressional districts (65%) and entire states (35%) does not make any sense. Not only is it not arbitrary, but it is entirely non-transparent: how many people actually know that 65% of pledged delegates are given out at the congressional district level? Probably less than 5% of all primary voters, and that is a bad sign for democracy. Further, congressional districts are not all the same size (Montana At-Large, for example, is about 50% larger than most), and there is no roll-call by congressional district. As such, pledged delegates should be determined only at the statewide level, which would make it impossible for a state to give more pledged delegates to a second-place candidate. States should receive pledged delegates based on the number of Democrats in that state who voted for the nominee in the previous election.

  3. Lower the viability threshold. While I understand the need to come to some sort of consensus in the party, and while I understand the need to keep lunatic candidates from securing delegates and making a ruckus at the convention, the 15% viability threshold is ludicrous. A 5% viability threshold would perform the latter two tasks, while not unfairly denying candidates with reasonably large bases of support a place in the party at the convention. I am actually less sold on this reform proposal than the other three I list here, but if it ever came to a vote at the Pennsylvania State Democratic Committee, I would still back in none the less.

  4. Don't allow Super Delegates To Vote On The First Ballot. It just isn't good for the party to have two different kinds of delegates at the convention. Also, as I am willing to admit, super delegates are less democratic than pledged delegates (right now, however, the democracy gap between the two is not very large). However, after the first ballot, there isn't any difference between pledged delegates and super delegates. So, I would say that super delegates should not be allowed to vote on the first ballot, but I don't see any problem with them voting on subsequent ballots, if they are necessary.

All together, these four reforms would make the nominating campaign a lot more democratic, and a lot easier for the average voter to understand. They would not, however, solve the problems surrounding the different composition of the electorate in different states or, most importantly, solve the major problems associated with the primary calendar.

Now the DNC itself can't do anything about the legal composition of the electorate in states, especially given that some states don't even have partisan voter registration. Also, as this year's struggles indicated, there does not appear to be a primary calendar solution that the DNC can enforce without simply stripping all pledged delegates from a state, which is not a very democratic solution to say the least. So, all of the states need to sit down and agree on a primary calendar that works for everyone (not bloody likely, but I love the California plan), or the party just needs to start holding the nominating convention a lot earlier. And by earlier, I mean start holding the convention in mid-May or early June, either during or right at the end of sweeps.

There would be several benefits to an earlier convention:

  1. First, if more campaigns are forced to run all the way through the convention (as they probably would be with the system I described above), the eventual winner will start the general election with a fifty state apparatus already in place. This was actually a serious problem for Kerry in 2004, since he emerged as the nominee with staff in basically two states: Iowa and New Hampshire, which caused him to come slow out of the gate during the late winter and early spring.

  2. Second, more people would watch. If more candidates were involved, if the convention actually meant something and / or took place far closer to the nominating primaries, then the conventions would simply generate much higher audiences. Simply put, seven Democratic candidates can generate more supporters than one, and the more candidates who make it to the convention, the more Democrats we will make. Further, by the middle of summer, people have long fallen out of the habit of watching television, something that has not happened by mid-May or early June. Yet further, the build-up to, and ratings, for a meaningful convention would be astronomical. An earlier convention, especially one that incorporates the reforms I laid out above, would draw more interest by several orders of magnitude. If the convention meant something, as many as five times as many people would watch the acceptance speech.

  3. Third, in the event of a campaign that is not decided until the convention, the party would have a lot more time to become unified afterward. A contentious, brokered convention in late August would be a catastrophic disaster this year, since the party would have only ten and a half weeks to reunify during the general election. An earlier convention avoids this problem entirely.

  4. Fourth, seize the advantage on Republicans. If the Democratic nominating process if more open and easier to understand than the Republican process, as it would be in this system, then it will make the Democratic Party look good. On Christmas, when I tried to explain the Democratic system to a major political junkie cousin of mine who also happens to be an independent, he just dismissively said "leave it to Democrats to make something so needlessly complicated." The image is not a good one.  Further, even if Republicans react and adopt a similar nominating process of their own, a brokered Republican convention would be a disaster. Think of the 1992 convention for an example here. When Republicans can't choreograph everything to make sure that the 2% of minorities at their convention receive 30% of the camera time, and when they can't make sure that the 10% of moderates in their party receive 75% of the speaking time, then they will look like the homogeneous extremists they are to fifty million people. In other words, Republicans simply can't adapt to an early convention, or a brokered convention, as well as Democrats could

So, those are my ideas on the nomination process. Originally, I had intended this post to be about 600 words in length, but now it seems to have gone on about four times longer than this. I guess after watching this for the past year, I had a lot of pent up ideas on the process that had to come out at some point. I hope you enjoyed it, and I will be glad to hear your thoughts in the comments. 


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Best idea: (0.00 / 0)
"States should receive pledged delegates based on the number of Democrats in that state who voted for the nominee in the previous election."

I like the idea of states competing over who can get the most popular participation.

I think some of your argument for the early convention was based on questionable premises (ie, where do you get the summer-tv-habit data, and how does having more candidates necessarily lead to greater participation), but I think the brokered convention point was a good enough reason on its own.



Lots of Good Ideas But... (4.00 / 1)
I agree with about 90% of what is in Chris's post especially about eliminating the Caucus system, something that the great Robert LaFollette of Wisconsin advocated about 90 years ago.  The notion that Super Delegates should not vote on the first ballot is OK but really, what would be the sense of that while still sending them to the Convention.  Calling someone a "delegate" but not allowing them to vote in the only vote that has mattered since the last second ballot convention which was in 1932 (in the Dem Party) is sort of lame.

Conventions are fun.  I've been to five of them.  Lots of old things that have outlived thier usefulness are fun. I suppose some think the Electorial College is fun.  It was outmoded more than 140 years ago! 

Conventions need to be rethought entirely.  I'm all for open bars, a big party every four years, shrimp, crab cakes, lots of signs & funny hats & buttons and everything else.  Let's have Conventions where we debate issues, have workshops, get drunk and preen for the media and blog.

But the thought that the nomination would be decided in anything less than a one person, one vote process is truly horrifying.  The thought that a Convention might actually matter is really, really awful -- disgusting in fact.  It's the gone world.  The world when pretty much only white men mattered.  It's the world that a lot of people in the Dem. party still miss.  The Conventions should have ended in about 1968.  I propose a proxy convention where delegates vote ONLY according to votes case in one person, one vote primaries.  "The great state of ________ home of _________ and _________ casts 2,655,862 votes for _________ and 1,456,879 votes for ________".  And yes, lots of parties.


Bad for the movement (0.00 / 0)
An issue completely separate from how democratic super delegates:

My problem with super delegates is not that they're any less democratic; it's that they are bad for the progressive movement.  Regardless of if they are elected, they are undeniably part of the party establishment.  This isn't in and of itself a problem, but because members of the party establishment have something to gain by protecting the status quo, they are an impediment to grassroots change.  Additionally, these people may actually personally profit by signing on with the winner ahead of time.  Because they are plugged in to the party establishment, often get their information from DC punditry, and have something to gain by going with the winner, they are more likely to pick the candidate that the establishment picks early on to seal the deal.

In short, my issue with super delegates is that they are part of the machinery that creates the environment which can lead to a successful "inevitability" campaign a la Mondale 1984, Gore 2000, and Clinton 2008.


[ Parent ]
Not pledged on the first ballot (4.00 / 1)
There is nothing in the DNC or convention rules that requires delegates to vote for their candidate on the first ballot. The rules state:

All delegates to the National Convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.

That's it. Nothing about first ballot commitment. (That rule was repealed in 1982).

AndreWalker in a diary at MyDD mentioned that Georgia state law has a 2-ballot requirement, although I questioned how that would be enforced. And this means that other states may have similar requirements. But there is nothing at the DNC level which requires that delegates MUST vote for their candidate.

DemConWatch


Wow, good to know (0.00 / 0)
Which actually means, in the end, that there is no difference between pledged and super delegates, at the final by-law level.

Which would have helped the first part of this argument, had I know it beforehand. thanks!

[ Parent ]
Practice Vs. Theory (0.00 / 0)
In practice, the pledge that binds delegates on the first ballot has never been broken, never, not once.  In the end it is a moral, not a legal commitment.  There have been rumbles in the past about delegates who tried to change thier vote but the delegation Chair refused to record thier vote.  The system is about show.

[ Parent ]
Early convention money effect (0.00 / 0)
Note that an early convention would kill the FEC matching funds for the general election. A candidate who did take matching funds for the General would have to spread it out over an extra 2 months.

At first, this process caused conventions to move earlier - remember Bob Dole in '96 was broke until he got his matching funds in mid-July. Then, the theory was, you could raise enough money in the spring time to get you through, but you want the General Election money to cover as little time as possible. So conventions moved later. Remember, both Kerry and Bush took matching funds for the General in 2004. This was a big reason Dean scheduled the Democratic convention so late this year, to concentrate the matching funds for the General over as short a time as possible. I don't think its clear yet what Clinton or Obama will do in the fall. There may be pressure for both sides to take matching funds in the General to keep the spending within reason.

DemConWatch


Increasing turnout (0.00 / 0)
I know the netroots is mostly opposed to open primaries, but I'd like to point out one positive aspect to them:  the emotional investment and buy-in that happens when a voter (whether democratic, independent or republican) shows up to vote in the Democratic primary.

I would like to see if there is research into the voting habits of primary voters in the general.  If you showed up fot vote for Obama in the Democratic primary, does that mean you are more likely to vote Democratic in the general (as an independent or Republican)?

I'm not sure I'm stating this well because obviously there is a high percentage of primary voters vote in the general too.  I guess I'm just seeing open primaries as a good way to build party affiliation.

So here's something different:  Hold open primaries, and count the Democratic and independent votes seperately.  Allocate the majority (60-80%) of delegates based solely on the Dem vote, but leave a few for the Independents.  This would decrease the ability for cross-over votes to fuck with the primary, and still preserve Democrats deciding their nominee, while also allowing for outreach and party building.


The Pledge is Not A Legal One... (0.00 / 0)
and I'll defend Open Primaries till the last bredth I ever take.  One person, one vote.  Period.  Read Justice Douglas's decision in Baker v. Carr.  There is only one consistant standard.  One person, one vote.  I'd die for it.  The rest is just bull****.

Same day registration (0.00 / 0)
Same day registration in combination with closed primaries would grant that. Basically, all it would require is someone to declare that they are a Democrat before they vote. Since we are determining a Democratic nominee, I think that is a fair bar to set.

[ Parent ]
OK, now on the the State Leggies (0.00 / 0)
OK, but try getting 99 state legislatures and 50 Governors to sign same day voter registration.  I have no problem with asking voters to declare they are a Democrat to vote in the Primary.

[ Parent ]
We have a limited "absentee ballot" (0.00 / 0)
in our caucus in Nebraska this year.

It's an absentee voter preference card.

We've never done a caucus before and it's just harrowing thinking about it. But we do allow some people to caucus absentee.

phat


no 15% rule in Washington precinct caucuses (0.00 / 0)
Actually, here in Washington state, we eliminated the 15% rule for our precinct caucuses, which will now award delegates strictly proportionately (though the threshould still applies at the higher level caucuses).  I'm guessing there will be a contingent of long-time party people who will try to bring it back in 2012, but I'm hoping if people see that the world doesn't end without it, it'll be a dead letter by then.

There's a lot of mythology out there about the 15% percent rule.  If you look at what the DNC rules say about it, it's really only supposed to apply at the Congressional District level (where it makes sense to try to limit the number of candidates showing up at the national convention).

At the precinct level it does absolutely nothing to weed out fringe candidates because precincts are way too small to be representative of what's fringe and what's not. In 2004, more than a few Seattle precincts went 85%+ for Kucinich, thus dismissing Kerry and Dean as "fringe" candidates.  This time around, there were Iowa precincts freezing out Hillary. 

(actually Iowa's rules are even stricter for precincts with small numbers of delegates, the threshold can go up to 25% or even 33%.  Minnesota, I'm told is even more pathological, having delegates pledged for multiple races simultaneously and requiring 15% for every possible combination...) 

I think the general principle is that if there are enough delegates available to represent a particular faction that should be enough -- i.e., your precinct gets N delegates and your faction has something like 1/N of the vote, you should get a delegate -- there's no need of a threshold beyond that.

Let the higher levels sort out who's fringe and who's not.


what does this mean? (0.00 / 0)
"States should receive pledged delegates based on the number of Democrats in that state who voted for the nominee in the previous election."

This seems to me that it says you assign delegates based only the number of registered Democrats who cast votes for the Democratic candidate. 

The problem with that is that we know how many votes the Democrat got, and how many Democrats went to the polls, but we do NOT know how they voted.  There are exit polls, but they are conducted by independent entities and have errors.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


on #2/#3 (4.00 / 1)
Reducing the viability statewide is fine, but makes getting a winner somewhat less likely.  It is impossible as long as there are districts which only have 3 or 4 delegates.  [I know, you'd get rid of them.]  Anyway, I'm not sure it makes much difference:  if Richardson had a few more delegates, would it matter?  All eliminating viability would do is ensure there are delegates who are representing a candidate who withdrew.  Why would they be a good choice for a delegate?

I am concerned about #2.  Admittedly, I never realized there were districts until earlier this year, so getting rid of them won't keep me up at night.  But in large states, there is often significant divisions between different regions (Upstate NY vs. Metro NYC, South Jersey vs. North Jersey, Northern Cal vs. Southern Cal, etc.)  Now you might say, as long as everyone counts equally, it doesn't matter, but there should at least be a requirement that the delegates themselves come from different regions of the state.  Otherwise, you can see that (to make up an example) the powerful NYC Democratic party could shut out upstate.  And if the delegates come from different regions, then the easiest way to select them is to elect them by districts.

I don't see the geography argument as compelling -- what are the states if not geography? 

[Incidentally, if you really like confusion, New Jersey's delegate districts are not Congressional, they are each two adjoining State Legislative districts. In fact, Montana is divided into two districts, so it is not by Congressional district either.]

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


I should add (4.00 / 1)
that the districts should be larger than they presently are.  Having districts that are just 3 or 4 delegates is an invitation to get weird results when they are added up, since they can only be split in a very limited number of ways (3-0-0, 2-1-0, 1-1-1), or (4-0,3-1,2-1-1,1-1-1-1).



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
California plan (0.00 / 0)
I like your ideas here.  For the primary schedule itself, the plan you linked to looks really good as well, but I don't like the strange mixup at the end just to help California.  A better California compromise would be to split the state for primary purposes into northern and southern halves, each with about the population of Florida.  Californians already think of themselves this way, so it would be no hardship.






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