Three Waves And A Wall: 2008 And The American Future-Pt. 2

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 20:27


The notion that history moves in cycles, or waves is an ancient one.  In this diary set, I'm looking at the coinciding impact of two waves that are part of longterm cycles, as well as a third one indicative of global transformation that's been under way for several decades now  These three waves all converge on this November's election, and in doing so, they confront a wall--the intensely fortified network of rightwing organizations and their "moderate" and "centrist" enablers.

The first part dealt with the roughly 32-40 year cycle of American Party Systems, the next part will deal with the recent wave of "post-materialist" values.  This part deals with the rise and fall of successive world powers--Spain, Holland, Britain, and now us--described by former GOP uber-guru Kevin Phillips in Wealth and Democracy: A Political History of the American Rich.

Discussion begins on the flip...

Paul Rosenberg :: Three Waves And A Wall: 2008 And The American Future-Pt. 2
The Cycles of World Powers

The cyclic rise and fall of civilizations in an ancient story, as mentioned in my introduction.  In the early 20th Century, Arnold Toynbee made the first attempt at a modern historica approach to this story, freed from the assumptions of deterministic decline, and open to the possibility of regeneration and renewal.  The wave of criticism he encountered from historical specialists brought out a small band of defenders as well, perhaps the most prominent of whom was William H. McNeill, whose efforts in trying to bring greater consistency and systematicity to bear lead to some of the earliest work on environmental history.  In 1987, naval historian Paul Kennedy published The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000, a book which-unlike Toynbee and others who followed him-made no attempt to describe the broad range of historical development, but instead focused narrowly on issues related to military power.

As Wikepedia summarized:

Kennedy argues that the strength of a Great Power can only be properly measured relative to other powers and he provides a straightforward and persuasively argued thesis: Great Power ascendency (over the long-term or in specific conflicts) correlates strongly to available resources and economic durability; military "over-stretch" and a concomitant relative decline is the consistent threat facing powers whose ambitions and security requirements are greater than their resource base can provide for (summarized on pages 438-439).

In 2002, Kevin Phillips published a book, Wealth and Democracy: A Political History of the American Rich, which included a comparison of America's trajectory as a world power with its three immediate predecessors as leading world power: Spain, Holland and Britain.  

Some relevant passages of his book are online here, where he observes:

Leading economic powers are not made or unmade overnight. Each of the three that preceded the United States gained that status over roughly a half century, always amid a powerful convergence of commercial, political, geographic, and cultural forces.

Although the specifics of each were unique, the broad patterns of rise and fall had striking similarities. He writes successively about Spain:

Greater Spain became the world's most important political and economic force by the 1540s and 1550s. Shipments of gold and silver from the New World, only a trickle in the decades following Columbus's explorations, now arrived on a large enough scale to help bring on what scholars have called the "sixteenth-century price revolution." ....

Greater Spain was not displaced as Europe's leading power until the drain of the Thirty Years' War (1618-48) and the full-fledged emergence of an independent Holland.

Holland:

The United Provinces of the Netherlands, born of a late-sixteenth century revolt against Hapsburg authority, started their own extraordinary climb to commercial leadership while Spain's might was still in place. The engines of Dutch advance were maritime, commercial, and even religious. The expulsion of Protestants in 1585 from the Spanish Netherlands (later Belgium) sent so many bankers, merchants, and artisans fleeing to the Protestant north that in the words of one refugee, "Antwerp became Amsterdam." Mushrooming from 30,000 residents in 1580 to 105,000 in 1622 and 201,000 by 1662, Amsterdam replaced Antwerp as Europe's commercial capital.

.... By the 1700s, although Amsterdam remained Europe's great lending center, the Dutch elite had begun to shift their own investments to the next great economic power: Britain.

And Britain:

The precise timing of Britain's own emergence is a continuing debate. Defeat of the French in 1763 gave the British a huge global empire, to say nothing of diplomatic precedence over the representatives of King Louis. Besides launching the Industrial Revolution, Britain also controlled the world's largest navy and verged on replacing Holland as Europe's principal pool of investment capital. Defeat of Napoleon in 1815 made British industry, capital, and empire paramount. But after a mid-Victorian heyday, large portions of British manufacturing were becoming obsolescent by the early twentieth century even while finance and national wealth were still reaching a zenith. Two world wars completed Britain's decline and transferred global economic leadership to the United States.

And then reflects on the common patterns:

Even these short capsules preview some striking recurrences. The early decades of each emerging economic primacy-Greater Spain in the 1520s and 1530s, Holland in 1600 or 1615, late Georgian and regency Britain-were fat years for each nation's economic elite. But it was the subsequent heydays, the golden ages, that brought the flood tide of commercial opportunity, new markets, and wealth that produced the broadest benefit for the largest number. Thereafter, each nation's relative distribution of wealth and income would narrow. Stratification would set in.

....

Let us underscore this next point: What all three "golden ages" involved, first and foremost, was a wave of success that brought broad enough status and prosperity to set the generality of Spaniards, then Dutch and Britons, ahead of their peers elsewhere. At first God was Spanish, which the banners of the sixteenth-century galleons more or less proclaimed. To Holland's favored brede middenstand, the Almighty must have been a Dutch burgomaster. And on Delderfield's bustling mid-nineteenth-century Kentish plain southeast of London, God was an Englishman.

The equivalent heyday in the United States, as we have seen, spans the years from World War II to some point in the 1960s or the early 1970s- the "good years" following the Good War, the era of the Great Compression, when income growth was high and the distance between bottom and upper wage levels was at its narrowest.

The next stage for each leading power began to erode this relatively.

Furthermore, Phillips goes on to make three further points that are extremely important for us:  

  1. Each power experiences an unexpected shock at the height of it's powers that lets it know it is not invulnerable, after all.  Vietnam was not an anomaly.
  2. Each power reacts the same way--a reactionary politics of denial sets in for a period of several decades, during which the elites do better than ever, while the larger masses see their fortunes either stagnate, or decline.
  3. Finallty, in each case, after several decades, an egalitarian reversal sets in.

Phillips writes:

... the popular reactions in mid-eighteenth-century Holland and early-twentieth-century Britain against opulent aristocratic and financial elites raise a different possibility: the emergence during the first third of the twenty-first century of a U.S. radicalism seeded by economic and political pessimism. We have seen how a portion of the Dutch people, seeking a return to lost values, mounted a "Patriot Revolution." Major elements of the British population, seething against wealth and unfairness, used the new Labor Party to build a British welfare state-worker and lower-middle-income circumstances improved markedly-around the much higher tax rates imposed by war and politics on the upper and upper middle classes.

In Globalization and History, economists Kevin O'Rourke and Jeffrey Williamson make the point that pre-1914 globalization came to an end when "a political backlash developed in response to the actual or perceived distributional effects of globalization." A gathering trend toward capital controls, immigration restraints, tariffs, and abandonment of the gold standard, together with democratic enfranchisement and the rise of the welfare state, operated to tilt economics toward "deglobalization" and increased emphasis on equality for some three to four decades after 1918. Inequality did reverse in the rich nations, and the two men suggest that such forces may be building again: "The record suggests that unless politicians worry about who gains and who loses, they may be forced by the electorate to stop efforts to strengthen global economy links, and perhaps even to dismantle them."

This last point stands in stark contrast with Obama's vapid echoing of the free trade conventional wisdom, "We can't stop globalization in its tracks." -- Cited in the very much worth reading survey comparison of Obama and Clinton on trade by OpenLeft commentator Robert Oak here.

History--as Phillips points out--not only says that we can stop globalization, we can reverse it.  But even more to the point, we can intelligently reshape it to conform with humane, democratic, egalitarian values.  But right now, the most vociferous advocate of "change" has surprisingly little to say about any of that.

Indeed, Obama's chief economic advisor, Ausan Goolsbee-a self-proclaimed "market centrist", would appear to be one who would regard Phillips as some kind of Marxist.

In an admiring column, conservative liar and thief George Will wrote:

Is Goolsbee dismayed about widening income inequality? Yes, but with a nuanced understanding. The stagnation of middle- and working-class incomes, and the anxiety that has generated, is, he says, a most pressing problem, but policymakers must be mindful about trying to address its root cause, which Goolsbee says is "radically increased returns to skill."

In 1980, people with college degrees made on average 30 percent more than those with only high school diplomas. That disparity has widened to 70 percent. In the same year, the average earnings of people with advanced degrees were 50 percent more than those with only high school diplomas; today, it is more than 100 percent.

In Goolsbee's world, apparently, there are no CEO's making four or five hundred times the wage of line workers-there are only more and less-skilled workers.  And anything so vaguely macro as the sort of world-historical cycles Phillips discusses?  They can only be Marxism in some kind of cheap disquise.

An article on Goolsbee in the Yale Daily News

Goolsbee's outlook on America's economic future reflects Obama's idealism and emphasis on bridging the two-party divide. Goolsbee said the policies he recommends address both the short- and long-term rejuvenation of the economy, in the hopes of providing a safety net while the country's economy rebuilds.

"If this income structure remains in place for 20 years, it implies a very different America and a very different American dream," he said.

For the first time in almost 100 years, Goolsbee said, productivity growth is not translating into wage increases for the majority of Americans.

"The top income levels have blown off the chart, but that's not the issue," he said. "The bottom 95 to 98 percent of income have been stagnant for the last six years. ... That is extremely disturbing."

The solution to this problem will ultimately be a new education plan that sends more Americans to college, he said.

Now, it's certainly true George Bush's economy has been terrible for all but the very top, with falling wages for the bottom 60 percent of households, and barely climbing income for the top 20%.  However, this is merely an intensification of the dominant economic trends since 1974.

Indeed, from 1974 to 1992-the year before Bill Clinton took office, the GDP rose 70%, from $4,319 billion (in 2000 dollars) to $7,336 billion.  Yet, over the same period of time, houshold incomes (CPS-based Table H-1) lagged dramatically for those at the 20th percintile (up 2%), 40th percentile (up 1%), 60th percentile (up 8%) and even 80th percentile (up 14%).  A 14% increase is 1/5 the 70% growth in GDP.

There's no doubt that things were worse for those with less education, but touting education as the key is clearly just a distraction from the larger political and historical forces at work-forces that Phillips describes quite candidly, while Goolsbee baptizes Obama in denial.


Part 1, Cycles of American Political Systems, here.  

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If the idiot Ghoolsbee were to come here I'd take him... (4.00 / 2)
........on a tour of my favorite bars and restaurants, Oakland, CA, and I could introduce him to the numerous upper-degree holding bartenders and servers I know. What passes for 'education' today means nothing in the face of the stampede to the bottom Obama and his 'free trade' backers have engineered.

Recently I discussed his return to India with a server I know. He informed me that he was going back as there were 'no longer any good jobs here for him....' in the IT industry. Mind you I was talking to this guy less than 30 miles from Silicon Valley.

This Ghoolsbee is, like his boss Senator 'Dope', essentially clueless.

Or....

Pretends to be.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Hey ACitizen... (0.00 / 0)
can you name 3 good bars and restaurants in Oakland within a few blocks of BART...is Jack London Square worth checking out?

Oh, yes, by the way Barack Obama did not exactly invent globalization.  Bill Clinton, on the other hand, sure has a record on that subject.  Of all the isms around, it seems to me that nationalism has caused the most unnecessary blood to be spilled.  


[ Parent ]
Her ya go... (4.00 / 1)
Luka's Taproom & Lounge is real close to a BART and where we of the OakTown  Chapter of Drinking Liberally meet.

In Jack London I'm not so good....mostly rip off corporate bars. If you want to get hip try: Arsimona's Bar and Lounge 561 11th st.

In Old Oakland Lavende East is cool, upscale with DJ.

Last two are not 'close' to BART...I don't think. I drive a car...my bad.

You are correct Barrack didn't invent globalization but more worrisome.....

He don't seem to understand it.

If you wander to Emeryville...

Kitty's be the place! My bar and it's da Bomb. Outside deck, cool bartenders and hoppin' DJ's ever night of the week.

Watch out for the drunk girls on Monday night!

Dat be 'Reggae Night.....' Ja help you if you go there after 10 on a Monday.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
over 35 (4.00 / 1)
What bothers me most is the incredible talent, the education, the abilities the years of expertise, laid waste due to outright age discrimination and labor arbitrage in the United States today.  You're right, there are so many talented, experienced people who are underemployed and it's like the shadow people that no one mentions.

It used to be that corporations not only paid for Masters and PhDs of bright people in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics, but the older professional workers mentored, trained the young ones.  Careers were lifetime, not guaranteed but assumed as one delivered they would be employed.  Now instead, over 35 is a deadly age and people are discarded like used shoes, regardless often of their technical accomplishments.

Can you imagine what would happen if all of those people were given the educational support, career support to work in alternative energies...what we could do?  It's easy to move from one subject area to another in these science areas, requires basically another 6 months to a year of school and on the job work and many could easily make the adjustment.  On top of it, the US might have something to actually export and even more..the US might actually reduce it's trade deficit due to decreased use of oil.

Why is it I can see this clearly yet some world renowned economists cannot even utter acknowledgment that this is occurring and one can see it by digging through the BLS statistics...well, it's beyond me.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
H1B Visa program (4.00 / 3)
is all about replacing older IT workers and keeping IT wages down.

[ Parent ]
sure is! (4.00 / 1)
I write extensively on H-1B, L1 and offshore outsourcing and we have a real problem in Presidential politics, all 3 have promised NASSCOM and Silicon valley, lobbyists,  to give de facto unlimited H-1Bs plus a new F-4 which gives anyone anywhere with anything that could remotely be called a "Bachelors" in anything remotely related to STEM an employment (any employer) based green card.  Then anyone majoring in anything from any "US) university (and does not define that the degree actually be earned on US soil) an employment based green card.

This is massive, huge and will wipe out Professional workers through labor arbitrage and also looks good to deny even more Americans even the opportunity to study (get in) to US universities and graduate school.

That's all 3, Hillary, McCain and Obama.  In my view, even worse, Obama writes back  constituents and claims they are "immigrant bashing" when they point out the well documented use of these Visas for insourcing (labor arbitrage through immigration and guest worker Visas).  Obama even had the gall to write FET (Fictional Employment Theory) claiming by enabling labor arbitrage that will create a job for the person who just lost their job, their home, their health care and is now teetering on the brink of financial disaster with top educational background and skills in hand.  (total fiction, maybe a Wal-Mart job is created).  

There is a bill in congress to close some of the legal loopholes by which employers legally displace US workers and hire cheaper foreign labor with these visas and not a single one will even co-sponsor the bill (S.1035).  Not a single one.

Even worse these Visas enable technology transfer outside of the US for offshore outsourcing.  The L-1 (intra company transfer) is most notorious.  

Working Professionals are not organized but I cannot go to any technical group where people do not know and are greatly concerned on this issue.  It's key to speak up, write your representatives because global labor arbitrage, insourcing, guest worker Visas is an obsession with corporate lobbyists right now, especially India who uses 54% of these Visas and they are arm twisting, threatening, doing whatever they can to get this trading of people agenda through any bill.  They hide it behind pathway to citizenship.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
implications (4.00 / 1)
The obvious question implied by this post is: how do we engineer the gradual deflation of American supremacy?

If we look like Britain in fifty years - not hegemonic, but an importantish, middling sort of country, with a considerably higher than average standard of living, and continuing commitment to liberal values - then I will be thrilled. But there clearly are, and will continue to be, strong forces clinging to the mirage of military hegemony and capitalist expansionism.

I don't have an answer to this question. And honestly, I don't think it's possible to answer it, or to plan for the unforeseeable consequences that will be entailed by a dramatic shift in global power structures. Also, I really don't see any political leaders even close to thinking about considering the hypothetical possibility of imagining this question. (Which makes it seem a little odd to pick on Obama in this context - is he any different from Clinton or McCain on questions of this scale? Is any politician?)

However, it does seem of the utmost importance to fight hardest for liberal values in the broad sense. The greatest threat is a reactionary response to these changing conditions of national power - a response which, it seems clear, has already begun. But I don't think the fulfillment of the reactionary (fascist) course is at all inevitable. Controlling this tendency should be the central value of contemporary liberal politics. (I might also ask - as a genuinely open question - in this context, who do you trust more: Clinton or Obama?)


The Good News (4.00 / 2)
The good news is that Phillips strongly sugests we're actually near the end of the reactionaries being on top.  That doesn't mean they'll go away, and obviously we don't have the leadership in place to change direction.

But therein lies the answer to why I'm talking about Obama--since he's the one who's talking about change, change and more change.

Well, this is the sort of change that history demands.  So if he's for real, this is where to step up.

Now, as for the how of getting from A to B, I think that a good portion of that lies in recognizing a wide range of other challenges.  For example, if we were to adjust our levels of concern and commitment to match the actual risks, we'd take a lot of moneyh out of the DOD and fighting terrorism, and put it into fighting global warming, instead.  So, look at a wide range of issues like that, a lot of incrimental change, and slowly--at least at first--the overall big picture starts to change.  The reactionaries have been totally blocking all such changes for a long time now--really intensely since the GOP took over Congress in 1994.  So I think there's a lot of pent up potential for change, and we just have to see how good a job we can do of actualizing that potential.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Slightly off topic, but (4.00 / 1)

"If this income structure remains in place for 20 years, it implies a very different America and a very different American dream," he said.

For the first time in almost 100 years, Goolsbee said, productivity growth is not translating into wage increases for the majority of Americans.

"The top income levels have blown off the chart, but that's not the issue," he said. "The bottom 95 to 98 percent of income have been stagnant for the last six years. ... That is extremely disturbing."

The solution to this problem will ultimately be a new education plan that sends more Americans to college, he said.


Gives me an idea of a great talking point for discussing tax policy--rather than saying that a democratic tax increase will affect only the top 2% (when 20% of people think that they are in the top 2% of income), you can make it much simpler:

Ask the voter if they are better off now than they were eight years ago.  If the answer is no, then we're not going to raise your taxes.  


That's A Great CONCEPT, But... (4.00 / 1)
the reality is that millions of people are better off, even though the aggregates they are part of are not.  That's just how it is in a nation of over 300 million people.  This is particularly true of people who are just getting into the job market.

Lots of young folks who are in low income groups are only there because they haven't started earning representative salaries yet.  Whether it's college students working part-time, professional students interning, or whatever, there are lots of folks like that.  So 8 year later, they'll be better off than they were 8 years ago, even though they won't be as well off as somone in the same position was 8 years ago.

Make sense?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I don't follow your Obama/Goolsbee critique (0.00 / 0)
I thought your historical review made a lot of sense, but you then seemed to segue into vague critiques of Obama and Goolsbee (including quotations from George Will, of all people) whose logic I can't follow.

You cited Obama's comment that "we can't stop globalization in its tracks."  You may see this statement as "vapid."  I'd argue that it is obviously true, and a fundamental point worth making, though there are many interpretations and assumptions as to what that word really means.

My reading of Obama's trade policies on his web site is that his goal is to "intelligently reshape it to conform with human, democratic, egalitarian values" as you suggest.  You may disagree with this and/or some of his specific proposals, or see important ones you think are lacking, but rather than discuss these, your post only cites the high value Goolsbee places on education, accompanied by vaguely provocative comments about how "Goolsbee would regard Phillips as some kind of Marxist".  Your logic doesn't track at all for me, except to suggest you don't like Goolsbee and enjoy taking digs at him.

To add a little balance to your comments on Goolsbee from some other sources not known for being easy on mainstream politicans and their advisors:

From Matt Stoller posting on Alternet:
http://www.alternet.org/blogge...

I learned during [my chat with Goolsbee at an NAF conference] that the Chicago school economist Goolsbee is friendly with David Sirota. In an argument about free trade, Sirota actually encouraged Goolsbee to read a trade agreement, who was then horrified at what he found.

From David Sirota's recent Huffpo column (worth a read for those who haven't) in which he discussed a recent Obama speech and his views on trade:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

With the departure of John Edwards, Obama is a candidate whose top economic adviser, Austan Goolsbee, is the only remaining top presidential economic guru who acknowledges that our current trade deals are horrifying - rather than wonderful.


Goolsbee (4.00 / 2)
That's great that Sirota got him to read a trade agreement, but Goolsbee clearly is not of the strategic trade camp.

It is Clinton who is paying attention to Samuelson, Blinder and Gomory who are strategically analyzing the state of trade and could certain craft a strategic trade policy that curtails global labor arbitrage as well as assists in investment supports to grow new innovative markets.  That requires of course getting short term thinking multinational corporations like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs from not writing these agreements and having an objective trade group, focused on the long term and national interest dominate the policy.

For example, it might be objectionable to say let something like clothing manufacturing go, but really makes sense in terms of maximizing total workforce energies in other areas,  but steel is not so wise.  Of course one can obtain steel more cheaply in China, but steel is a national security issue a defense industry really and the US needs to be able to make it's own.

Take just something as simple as giving additional tax incentives to enable manufacturing to retool for more advanced techniques that we want to dominate in manufacturing.  Say a new VLSI process or thin film battery manufacturing.  None of this exists currently...it's all
"let's offshore outsource as fast as we can" with no regard to the US national interest in any policy (that I am aware of!).

Another example might be R&D in alternative energies.  The Japanese for instance have invested billions, government in partnership with things like advanced laser technologies, high end manufacturing technologies and if one notices they have a surplus in trade with China.

That is the difference but Goolsbee (and good to Sirota for getting him to actually look at one of these agreements)
just isn't presenting any of this economic thought to do this.  

Public Citizen has exceptional policy suggests as well on what needs to be modified by US trade policy....

I've looked high and low and I see nothing even remotely like that from Obama or his economic advisers.

The church of free trade has a real hard time seemingly looking at the statistical results and even harder considering new advances in trade economic theory to turn those results around.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
It's Really Strightforward, Mitch (4.00 / 3)
Kevin Phillips has been writing about cycles in history, and he points to how an earlier cycle of globalizing came to be reversed in the paragraph that begins like this:

In Globalization and History, economists Kevin O'Rourke and Jeffrey Williamson make the point that pre-1914 globalization came to an end when "a political backlash developed in response to the actual or perceived distributional effects of globalization."

The critiques of Obama and Goolsbee flow directly from the fact that they are totally oblivious to this history, and totally in sync with the Versailles CW that what's happening now with globalization is both historically unique and inevitable. "There is no alterative." as Maggie Thatcher would say.  Obama's "we can't stop globalization in its tracks" is more of the same. It's historically ignorant, and just plain false.

I quoted George Will (while identifying him as the criminal he is) quite deliberately, because it ought to alarm anyone to be praised by George Will.  It should worry you that Will has nice things to say about Obama's top economics advisor.  And what he said was that Goolsbee worries about inequality, like the liberals do, but he blames the victim like a good conservative.

Thus, the logic here is quite simple: Phillips argues that financialization, globalization and income polarization are functions of a cyclically repeatative historical process--a process whose beneficiaries always is uniquely about them and how wonderful they are.  That's what this entire diary is about.  But Obama and his top economic advisor are operating in total denial and/or utter ignorance of everything Phillips has written.

As for your own take on Obama's trade positions, I refer you again to the comparative analysis by Robert Oak.  Among points he cites from Clinton's policy include:

   * I will oppose the pending trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia, and Panama
   * Ensure that trade policies work for average Americans. Trade policy must raise our standard of living, and they must have strong protections for workers and the environment
   * I will appoint a trade enforcement officer and double the enforcement staff at the office of the United States Trade Representative
   * I will also systematically review every trade agreement to ensure that it is delivering benefits to American workers
   * I will also expand the Trade Adjustment Assistance program so that workers negatively affected by the global economy get the help they need.
   * In my first months in office, I will take a time out from new trade deals to assess their impact before going forward
   * Reevaluate free trade deals every five years to ensure that they are still meeting our national and agricultural interests

This is considerably more crisp, concise, and specific than what he quotes from Obama.  By expressing herself this way, Clinton is setting herself up to be held accountable in a way that Obama is not. That's significant, particularly since Obama's vague promises are not really distinguishable from the vague promises we've heard from so many other politicians in the past.

Now, I'm very glad that Obama's started sounding more like a populist of late, and I hope to hear a whole lot more of it.  I'm also pleased that Goolsbee's actually read a trade agreement.  To my knowledge, no member of Congress who has ever read a complete trade agreement has ever voted for one.  So this is definitely a step in the right direction.

I just find it, how shall we say... irksome? ironic? farcical?  surreal? that the top economic advisor to the supposedly "most progressive" Democratic candidate is a gung-ho free trader U of Chicago professor who has never read a trade document before, and is now doing an Emily Litella routine.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Why? (0.00 / 0)
You use Clinton's talking points... however with your knowlege - neglecting other important facts which are far more important when keeping a candidate accountable?

For example when she voted (and Obama) for the:

Oman Free Trade Agreement
http://www.tompaine.com/articl...

"...A trade deal like this that rewards worker oppression, undermines Americans' job security, promotes environmental degradation, encourages health industry price gouging and weakens America's post-9/11 security...

Did you read the Oman Free Trade Agreement?  If so, how do you reconcile her vote with her talking points and rhetoric?

Also, neglecting to include the many occasions (mostly behind closed doors) or not included on her Senate website Clinton speeches fervently supporting of 'free-trade,' outsourcing of good paying American jobs, and admonishing those who foolishly question it?

Hillary clears outsourcing air
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/S...


[ Parent ]
You Have NO Comprehension of Context WHATSOEVER (0.00 / 0)
And, frankly, I'm getting damn tired of pointing this out over and over and over again.

Go read Robert's whole post for yourself.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Globalization (4.00 / 1)
You seem to be using, and assuming, a definition of globalization different than one I think of.  For one, I think of globalization as being a world wide phenomena, yet you seem to be treating it as a U.S. phenomena.  You are treating it as something that has happened many times with powerful countries in the past and I see new technologies that have no counterpart historically.  History can be useful, but what is new is actually new.

I work from home, my nearest coworker lives about 1000 miles away and routinely talk to people from China, Germany and England.  When I hear Obama say he can't stop globalization, my response is "duh, why do you bother say something so obvious."  When you hear it you say he is being vapid.

Perhaps this is all buzzword centric, much like when Rice says the Middle East is suffering labor pains or Bush mentions the Dred Scott ruling (both subtle callouts to the religious right).  Perhaps "globalization" means something very specific among those who deal with trade agreements.

Hmm... let me go read Wikipedia's entry on Globlization...

Excuse my while I type out loud...

The term "globalization," like most terms of public discourse, has two meanings: its literal meaning, and a technical sense used for doctrinal purposes. In its literal sense, "globalization" means international integration. Its strongest proponents since its origins have been the workers movements and the left (which is why unions are called "internationals"), and the strongest proponents today are those who meet annually in the World Social Forum and its many regional offshoots. In the technical sense defined by the powerful, they are described as "anti-globalization," which means that they favor globalization directed to the needs and concerns of people, not investors, financial institutions and other sectors of power, with the interests of people incidental. That's "globalization" in the technical doctrinal sense.

I'm thinking of the former sense and you are using the latter sense, I assume.

But to me, the real point is pro or con globalization -- if it is, sign me up for pro -- but the usage and details: "globalization directed to the needs and concerns of people, not investors, financial institutions and other sectors of power."

It is unclear to me how politicians can and should use words that seem to have multiple definitions and usages.  I agree that this is where details in the plans help clear this up.


type out loud (0.00 / 0)
hmm, "type out loud" doesn't make any sense, does it?  So much for the typing version of "think out loud".  How about "think with the keyboard" or "think out on pixels" or...  oh, never mind.

[ Parent ]
Not US Phenomena, Not So Unique (0.00 / 0)
First, let's not forget where I'm going with all this:

History--as Phillips points out--not only says that we can stop globalization, we can reverse it.  But even more to the point, we can intelligently reshape it to conform with humane, democratic, egalitarian values.

Now to some specifics:

(1) Each of the leading powers was the leader, in turn, of globalizing forces during its era of dominance.  This didn't mean it was confined to them, but they were the dominant players.

(2) Sure, we have new, unique technologies.  But they are just the latest in a long string of new, unique technologies.  You want a revolutionary, barrier-breaking communication technology?  How about the telegraph?  How about when they laid the trans-Atlantic cable?

(3) It's a simple matter of history that levels of trade can go up or down.  They don't always have to go up.  But globalization is much more than just trade, as you point out.  It's not just people around the globe working with each other, though.  It's also very much about investments, and the terms of international intellectual property rights.  And about un-accountable, non-transparent, corporate-controlled governing bodies making and enforcing the rules.  And democratizing this system, both by reasserting more democratic processes at the national level, and by democratizing the international process itself, is something I'm very much in favor of.

(4) But, as someone who lives right next to the largest container port complex in the country, and breathes it's poisonous air, I can also say that the very level of trade we have today is heavily subsidized by externalities to public health and other factors, and is probably not compatible with a more efficient, zero-carbon future.  Relocalization of economies for environmental reasons would not mean an end to trade, but it could mean a reduction in volume from current level--whether or not it means a reduction in value.

These sorts of funamental changes are hard to imagine in a linear-developmental framework (and yeah, it's linear, no matter how many buzzwords claim otherwise), but they're not unthinkable, once one considers the nature of cyclic change, and the interaction different sorts of cyclic change with one another.  


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Noam Chomsky quotes (4.00 / 1)
The previous Wikipedia quote was from Noam Chomsky.  The same article has two more I find interesting and fits in well with my own view of globalization:

The term "globalization" has been appropriated by the powerful to refer to a specific form of international economic integration, one based on investor rights, with the interests of people incidental. That is why the business press, in its more honest moments, refers to the "free trade agreements" as "free investment agreements" (Wall St. Journal). Accordingly, advocates of other forms of globalization are described as "anti-globalization"; and some, unfortunately, even accept this term, though it is a term of propaganda that should be dismissed with ridicule. No sane person is opposed to globalization, that is, international integration. Surely not the left and the workers movements, which were founded on the principle of international solidarity - that is, globalization in a form that attends to the rights of people, not private power systems.

"The dominant propaganda systems have appropriated the term "globalization" to refer to the specific version of international economic integration that they favor, which privileges the rights of investors and lenders, those of people being incidental. In accord with this usage, those who favor a different form of international integration, which privileges the rights of human beings, become "anti-globalist." This is simply vulgar propaganda, like the term "anti-Soviet" used by the most disgusting commissars to refer to dissidents. It is not only vulgar, but idiotic. Take the World Social Forum, called "anti-globalization" in the propaganda system -- which happens to include the media, the educated classes, etc., with rare exceptions. The WSF is a paradigm example of globalization. It is a gathering of huge numbers of people from all over the world, from just about every corner of life one can think of, apart from the extremely narrow highly privileged elites who meet at the competing World Economic Forum, and are called "pro-globalization" by the propaganda system. An observer watching this farce from Mars would collapse in hysterical laughter at the antics of the educated classes.


Cyclical? (0.00 / 0)
Fry: So, while you're on the Probulator, tell me what brings you to the future.

Man: Oh, well, I wanted to meet Shakespeare and I figured that time was cyclical.

Fry: Nope. Straight line.


Cyclical =/= Circular (0.00 / 0)
As Yogi Berra said, "You could look it up!"

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
actually, that is the definition of cyclical. (0.00 / 0)
But I was stealing a joke from Futurama.  

"cycle" derives from the greek word meaning circle.  A cycle is "any complete round or series of occurrences that repeats or is repeated."

You know, like a circle.  If time were circular, it would by definition be cyclical, and the reverse as well.  In this context, the terms are interchangeable.

I meant it as a throw away comment--just a fun bit that incidentally related to your post.  You seemed to have missed that point though.  In any case, the joke is about time, not politics.  In politics, we can actually find patterns that appear to repeat, but not in time.  

And, yes, you could have looked it up.  


[ Parent ]
Globalization is not just about economics (4.00 / 1)
I'll give yet another quote from Wikipedia on globalization in a prior incarnation of that page. It's from a set of my research notes from July '07.  Personally I think it's the best definition, but the ever eager Wiki hounds keep changing reality over there.

Globalization (or globalisation) refers to increasing global connectivity, integration and interdependence in the economic, social, technological, cultural, political, and ecological spheres. Globalization is an umbrella term and is perhaps best understood as a unitary process inclusive of many sub-processes (such as enhanced economic interdependence, increased cultural influence, rapid advances of information technology, and novel governance and geopolitical challenges) that are increasingly binding people and the biosphere more tightly into one global system.
[Wikipedia July'07]

I think it's BIG mistake for folks to focus so much on the economic aspects as I think it's the cultural, social, political and ecological/environmental that are the real keys to the process.  The economic aspects of globalization can be addressed through the setting of economic policies and trade agreements, so you can slow down or temporarily stop certain aspects of economic globalization, but I don't see how you can stop it in general... not as long as the internet, global media, and human urges to travel and trade exist.  

What's interesting to me are the new trends in economics which seem to come directly out of realizations of the problems caused by the the current economic policies of globalization. I know that policy is terribly unglamorous and it's alot easier to blame globalization for all kinds of things.  Globalization is the new "bogy man."

Some interesting economic views (academic) on globalization can be found at:
http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani...

My favorite book on globalization is:
All Connected Now: Life in the First Global Civilization, by Walter Truett Anderson

Another fascinating book on globalization as a historic process, but I've only started it....
Bound Together: How Traders, Preachers, Adventurers, and Warriors Shaped Globalization, by Nayan Chanda

Let me throw out a historical tidbit here.  A couple of years ago I got caught up in studying about the transition from hunter-gatherer to farmer, and there is evidence that some groups tried out farming, didn't like the effect on their culture and then went back to their hunter-gatherer ways.  Eventually, however, they transitioned to farming as that is where their world was going.

Thanks Paul for another great essay.  Looking forward for Part 3.    


This Is A Very Good Point, But... (0.00 / 0)
We shouldn't forget that the economic aspects are what most political folks are talking about most of the time.  And that very ambiguity is part of what they use to make a whole galaxy of outrageous claims.

Personally, as a kid raised on world music back in the 1950s (yes, it existed back then, there are Pete Seegar, Folkways, and Miriam Miriam Makeba records to prove it), I am 100% for cultural globalization in every fibre of my being.  But it's precisely because I treasure such diversity that I don't want to see it all homogonized into one big grey glop of Brittany Spears music videos.  Which means that I favor intentionally-designed limits on globalization as well.  And limiting trade intelligently--as well as investment--is one part of doing that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Not possible for me to forget the economic aspects (0.00 / 0)
as on my personally configured GoogleNews page I have both "globalization" and "globalisation" as news categories.  Why I keep trying to say is that just because the economics aspect is what "most political folks are talking about" doesn't mean it's the most useful discussion point for solving its problems.  It's not the ROOT issue in globalization it's a symptom or side effect that points in certain directions.

However, in regards to the economic stuff, did you check out Dani Rodrik's blog?  He's one of a new breed of economist who are trying to avoid the globalization vs. anti-globalization polarity (which is too political IMO) to get to the bottom of how to better handle economic policy.

Rodrik recently published a book on his ideas.  I recommend going over to Amazon and reading some of the stuff in the "inside this book" preview Amazon offers on some books and read the "front flap" to get the short version of his point of view.

One Economics, Many Recipes: Globalization, Institutions, and Economic Growth by Dani Rodrik

I haven't ordered it yet as my book queue is already toooooo long.  I did order Wealth and Democracy used cheap, though.


[ Parent ]
Dichotomy-Busting Is So Old And Tired (0.00 / 0)
I'm sorry, but in all too many cases--this one among many--dichotomy-busting is at best a cheap marketing ploy.  There is, indeed, a pro-globalization orthodoxy.  But there is no such orthodoxy on the anti-globalization side.

Thus someone who proposes to "transcend" a non-existent duality between waring orthodoxies is at best a cheap marketing huckster (or client thereof) and at worst an cheap intellectual huckster.  He may still have some useful ideas, but the initial dishonesty is something that takes some getting past.

Unless, of course, it's all a clever way of getting a hearing where the globalization mafia would otherwise deny one.  If that's the game he's playing, then the necessity plea is one I'm quite sympathetic to.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (0.00 / 0)
so we obviously have very different frames going on. In my mind I was supporting your point about the importance of diversity and that there were folks out there who recognized that.  Oh well.  Never mind.

[ Parent ]
Sorry To Be Unclear--I'm Not Responding To You (0.00 / 0)
This wasn't directed at you personally.

I was simply responding to the presentation of Rodrik's work from the publishers description.  I did skim a bit of his blog, which didn't give me strong feelings one way or another.

But I should have made it clearer that I was not intending to lump you in with him.  As I tried to indicate, that was my initial reaction to how his work was presented.

It was meant as a way of saying, "Okay, but don't expect me to be jumping in to start reading him as the next big thing.  I'm not chucking Naomi Klein just yet."

I hope this clarifies things.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
It does a bit (0.00 / 0)
except I also don't understand what reading one economists ideas would have to do with chucking another.  I think Naomi Klein is great, btw, and think her work has alot of merit. I don't read alot of economics, just a bit here and there so I am no expert or even serious amateur. Does one have to be a follower of one economist over another? There are so many different fields and sub-fields within economics, so many persepectives one can come from. I just seek knowledge and ideas and enjoy batting them around to try and make sense of the world.

Once again, thanks again for posting your series Three Waves and a Wall, and I look forward to part 3.  
 


[ Parent ]
No, Of Course It's Not Either/Or (0.00 / 0)
That's just it.  The way his work was presented was in terms of either/or.  At least that's how it struck me.

Now, of course I know that authors don't have final say on how their work is presented.  So I'm not writing him off.  I'm just not putting him at the top of my "to read" list.

But, if you find something of his that's particularly relevant to anything I'm discussing, please feel free paste an excerpt and post a link.  One well-connected entry point is worth a thousand-word blurb.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
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