Ron Paul At The End Of Perotism

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 14:00


Pat Buchanan on the need to impeach Bush over immigration policy:

Author Pat Buchanan says President Bush should be impeached for failing to stop the invasion of illegal aliens across the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I think he's committed an impeachable offense in refusing to enforce the immigration laws and in failing to uphold the Constitution by defending the states against this invasion," Buchanan told radio talk-show host Curt Smith this weekend on National Public Radio stations in upstate New York.

"When you have 6 million people apprehended on the border and several million got in on your watch ? and you have the ability to stop it ? I think you're derelict in your duty," he said. "And if the president says 'I can't do it,' you need a new president who will do it."

"This is not Ellis Island," said Buchanan. "This is an invasion."

John McCain on our national imperative to spread Americanism worldwide, by force if necessary:

Theodore Roosevelt is one of my greatest political heroes. The "strenuous life" was T.R.'s definition of Americanism, a celebration of America's pioneer ethos, the virtues that had won the West and inspired our belief in ourselves as the New Jerusalem, bound by sacred duty to suffer hardship and risk danger to protect the values of our civilization and impart them to humanity. "We cannot sit huddled within our borders," he warned, "and avow ourselves merely an assemblage of well-to-do hucksters who care nothing for what happens beyond."(...)

And for Roosevelt that common destiny surpassed material gain and self-interest. Our freedom and our industry must aspire to more than acquisition and luxury. We must live out the true meaning of freedom, and accept "that we have duties to others and duties to ourselves; and we can shirk neither."

Some critics, in his day and ours, saw in Roosevelt's patriotism only flag-waving chauvinism, not all that dissimilar to Old World ancestral allegiances that incited one people to subjugate another and plunged whole continents into war. But they did not see the universality of the ideals that formed his creed.

The last major conservative split took place in the early 1990's, when Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot were able to exploit conservative dissatisfaction with Bush Sr. over trade, immigration, the first Iraq war, and multilateral cooperation abroad. A McCain nomination has the potential re-open this exact same rift. It is ultimately a split between neoconservative imperialism and paleoconservative American exceptionalism. While McCain is a strong believer in the inherent superiority of American civilization, he draws many of the same internationalist conclusions from that belief that we have seen from the Bushes: spread American influence through foreign wars, free trade, religious evangelizing, and immigration policies that are relatively open when compared to those favored by other conservatives. This draws the ire of paleocons like Buchanan who are mainly interested in preserving what they see as the exceptionalism of American cultural identity through closed borders, closed trade, and a general disdain for involvement overseas.

With McCain as the nominee, a conservative split of this nature is almost inevitable. Like Bush, Iraq and immigration are two of the few areas where he simply refuses to pander to certain sections of his base. What is less inevitable is that this split will blow up into a full-scale primary and third party challenge ala 1992. In fact, that appears extremely unlikely, given what appears to be a remarkable decline in the political influence of paleoconservatives.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: Ron Paul At The End Of Perotism
Ron Paul carried the paleoconservative banner for Republicans in 2008, and despite his tens of millions of dollars he never once reached double-digits outside of a caucus. Buchannan, by contrast, regularly scored over 20% of the vote in 1992 and 1996 primaries. For all the talk of Ron Paul's activists as a rising force in the Republican Party or conservative politics, the influence of his supporters is actually in severe decline. Now, Republican candidates are winning primaries as a result of their internationalist (if imperialist) approach, while anti-immigration Republicans are getting crushed. The paleocons that led to the massive conservative split of 1992 have seen their coalition reduced to a rump of noisy, active, and increasingly alienated supporters. Even Bush, who bows to his base on just about everything, won't bow to paleoconservatives on issues like immigration.

The lack of influence of the paleoconservatives also arose in yesterday's flap over the picture of Obama in traditional Kenyan attire. The course of that argument was not about Obama wearing the attire, something that might offend American exceptionalists like Buchanan, but rather about whether the Clinton campaign was being sleazy in attacking Obama over wearing the garb. For the record, I don't think the Clinton campaign was behind the attack, and that Drudge just made that up whole cloth, so to speak. Anyway, the point is that when an attack like that itself becomes offensive, then paleocons have become utterly irrelevant in American politics. Consider further that while Ron Paul's crowds seem impressive, on Saturday his supporters held a GOTV rally in Austin that attracted 4,000 people, of whom only 54 actually voted. It is in this way that his campaign can be viewed as the last, desperate convulsion of a once powerful force in American politics that seems to be heading in the direction of the Dodo. That such a platform can't even succeed during a time when unpopular free trade, unpopular immigration, and an unpopular foreign war are all partially blamed for a poor economy is particularly telling.  


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Hmmmm.... (4.00 / 6)
I think it's a bit more complicated than this makes out. Consider: Bush I was not a neocon.  He hated them.

So the paleocons carried the banner for all the xenophobic (and come to think of it, Zena-phobic) GOP masses.  Now, however, there are two brands of GOP xenophibia, and the kick-their-ass-and-take-their-gas wing is holding all the aces.  But I don't think that the paleocons are dead and gone.  In fact, they probably still have greater demographic strength.  They just don't have the organizational infrastructure.

Ron Paul is a lone nut.  Pat Buchanan was a powerful establishment nut.  Big difference.  And there's still a potential for them to reinvent themselves. Don't forget, Buchanan ran with a black woman as his running mate in 2000.  That lost him a lot of racist right support.  But, as Martin Lee documented in The Beast Reawakens, the European neo-Nazis reinvented themselves with their own rightwing version of multi-culturalism, based on a separatist/essentialist model, and it's been remarkably successful for them.

It's not inconceivable that something parallel could eventually happen here as well.  And eventually could come rather quickly if McCain loses "big time," as our #2 war criminal would say.

Finally, Perot wasn't really cut from the same cloth.  Somewhat similar, but not the same.  His supporters were much more from the disaffected middle than from the right, and the "Contract with America" was designed to pull them in two years after his high-water mark, with it's total lack of Buchanan's culture war issues.

Of course the GOP couldn't help itself once in power, but most of the Perotistas never did seem to wise up to it, at least not till 2006.  Anyway, bottom line--there is certainly some Perot/Buchanan cross-over, but the cores are different.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I know it isn't perfect (0.00 / 0)
And that it is more complicated. the truth is, this is a mish mash of three poots I worked on over the past 24 hours, and I didn't know how to make any of them work. But I also didn't want the work to be wasted.

There is some truth here: I just don't think the Perot vision really carries anymore. Even with a better delivery mechanism than Ron Paul, I still think it would not have been very popular even in 2008, a year when such a message seems tailor made.  


[ Parent ]
I Know the Feeling (0.00 / 0)
And I think you're right about the moment and all.  I'm just saying we shouldn't expect this to last.  It's a moment in history, but we should expect the tides to turn again.

It remains remarkable, however, that such a moment should come. That I won't dispute for a minute.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Obama's role (4.00 / 2)
Part of Perotism was a desire to forge a more "effective" coalition that would fix government.  They fixated on the deficit in part as a proxy for broken government.  Obama's appeal taps into some of these feelings in a more sophisticated, updated way.  To the extent he gets pocket-protector guys (look at his share of the white male vote), he's capturing some of this dissatisfaction.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
"it is more complicated" (4.00 / 2)
Let me say up front that I voted for Perot. Let me explain my rationale and you decide if I qualify as a paleocon by any stretch of the imagination. As someone who is personally frugal, the huge and growing deficit bothered me. The fact that neither major party would even address it gave me the feeling that both parties were full of shit and not to be trusted and the whole system was dysfunctional. (Although I hated the two-party system, there was never a doubt in my mind which party was worse. I used to say "The only good thing about Democrats is that they're not Republicans.") Anyway, when Ross Perot started talking about a subject that I cared about that no other political figure ever mentioned, he had me at "pie chart." But I would dispute that he was conservative at all. Modern conservatives feign giving a shit about deficits as an excuse to cut social programs. Perot's solution to a perceived long-term social security solvency issue was to eliminate the cap on SS taxes. In fact my recollection is that he was liberal on almost every issue including abortion. I think he appealed to a lot of conservatives because of his folksy manner and his missions to Vietnam to try to rescue POW/MIAs. But a lot of his support came from liberals and his policies were mostly liberal.

As for Ron Paul, I am sure that a big part of his support is his stance against the war and imperialism in general. I share that view and consider myself a solid leftist. I think a huge amount of his appeal is that we invaded a country to steal their oil, and he's the only one willing to say it. For a lot of people, especially young people, that equates to "He's the only one who's not full of shit." I don't think conservatism has much to do with it.

Pat Buchanon, on the other hand, is clearly a paleocon. But I don't think it follows to equate Paul to Buchanon and read into that a decline in paleocon numbers. As I said, I think a big part of Paul's support has nothing to do with conservatism. Second, a lot of Republicans would probably swallow Paul's message if it was coming out of the mouth of Glorious Leader Bush. But since he's opposing Glorious Leader on the war, he's an evil doer. It's more about the authoritarian psychology of conservatism than it is about any differences between paleo and neocons. Another factor is that Huckabee is probably getting most of the cultural conservatives that Buchanon got. So, I'm not sure if that indicates any kind of decline in paleocon mentality.

As Paul Rosenberg said above, "Now, however, there are two brands of GOP xenophibia, and the kick-their-ass-and-take-their-gas wing is holding all the aces." I don't even think these are distinct wings. The same people who thought Clinton should never have gotten us mixed up in the Balkans and dismissed bombing Al Queda as a wag-the-dog distraction from blow-job-gate, are the most virulent Iraq war boosters. The only difference is the party of the President in office at the time. I think that all you can draw from this is that conservatives in general are intellectually dishonest authoritarians.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Ron Paul (0.00 / 0)
Ron Paul is for more guest worker Visas.  People don't understand that movement or the details of the paleo-conservatives, but I would claim they are not Ron Paul's libertarian philosophy generally.    I can guarantee that paleo-conservatives (the real ones) are not for more guest worker Visas.  So, I think this categorization isn't right here.  

The ones shouting from the rooftops "no amnesty" who are for guest worker Visas are more the corporate cheap labor lobby plus the sprinkling of nasty that everyone wants to blanket categorize this issue with.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Ron Paul's A Wierd Agglomeration (4.00 / 1)
The Stormfront crowd certainly isn't down for guest worker visas.  And that's where a lot of his initial internet juice came from.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
stormfront? (4.00 / 2)
I didn't know who that was and just looked it up, eek.  Needless to say I sure don't want to link.   Well, these wackos may have jumped on this issue for their agenda but it sure isn't the majority, let's just get that out there.

I wrote a hit piece on Ron Paul, early on because so many engineers were attracted to his libertarian views and also his focus on the federal reserve.  Diane Arbus image used to describe the overall incongruity of positions.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Silly Boy! (4.00 / 1)
It's all the Bavarian Illuminati's doing!

The market worked just fine before they started the French Revolutuion.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
let them eat cake (4.00 / 2)
but with a modern caveat, they can charge it on their new Visa or Mastercard.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Guest workers (4.00 / 3)
High tech business managers and owners in CA would much rather import skilled workers from abroad than pay the taxes to educate our own workforce here at home.  The cyberselfish.  Pretty much sums up libertarianism as a whole IMHO.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
yeah and I've got ammo (4.00 / 1)
Milton Friedman, Mr. unfettered capitalism, Mr. "privatize the world" and especially use crisis strategy to do so called guest worker Visas a business subsidy.   So, you can come at this one from all angles and I sure try!  

Bear in mind that all 3 Presidential candidates, that's Hillary, Obama and McCain have promised those corporate lobbyists and other (gotta love this how foreign business manages to demand US legislation) business entities their guest worker Visas, especially targeted are the Professional workers.  That's all 3, especially Obama.

You should see what is going on with our taxpayer money by our universities these days.  They are not expanding funding, scholarships, fellowships, seats, inclusion into our US universities....nope they are busy opening campuses abroad.  Yup,Dubai, India, China....and they are accepting 3 yr (90 credit hours), Bologna BSc degrees directly into PhD programs as well.

I couldn't figure it out until I read that higher education is a 2.5 trillion market, revals the financial sector in potential profits.  Gotta love our University system, there they are with public federal and especially state financing pushing the globalization agenda versus increasing inclusion for US students.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
9/11 effect (4.00 / 1)
Foreign students are very lucrative, especially for state schools which have to keep fees low for in-state students.  But after 9/11 hysteria made getting and renewing student visas much harder, and we have become much less hospitable as a country in many places.  So it would stand to reason that the Universities would just transplant their campuses rather than lose the revenue.  Offshoring, I believe it is called.

But it also, at least in CA, has to do with rich people wanting to keep taxes low and not adequaltely funding education.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
false, extremely (0.00 / 0)
Firstly, it has been proven that guest worker Visas are directly related to the acceleration of offshore outsourcing.  The Visas are needed for technology transfer out of the United States.  A good piece of evidence in this is India uses 54% of the H-1B Visas and by body shops, which specialize in wage arbitrage of US workers and technology transfer offshore.  NASSCOM often calls the H-1B the outsourcing Visa for good reason and it is a major component in their business models.  They continually attempt to get unlimited H-1Bs and believe it is a trade issue and that we must trade people (services) via trade agreements.  Outsourcing now accounts for ~7.5% of India GDP.  That's our jobs, out money and they are now using those profits to buy US assets.

Secondly, Academia, students, universities, non-profits have no limits on any guest worker Visas, they are exempt from any cap.  

Thirdly, STEM enrollment has dropped 40% by US students due to costs and the fact the career is vulnerable to labor arbitrage and is especially notorious for age discrimination.  The stipends to study at most STEM schools are below the poverty line as well.  

There has been  dramatic increase in the number of foreigners since 2001 in US graduate/undergraduate schools and it has to do with all of these factors as well as universities themselves engaging in labor arbitrage.  A case in point is the wage repression of Post Doc research positions and there is a well documented glut of PhDs available for these purposes.

There are also increasing reports that the bar for obtaining a PhD has lowered, creating quality issues.  

So, this claim that somehow the US iis "inhospitable" to foreigners, there is no evidence to that claim and the numbers imply the opposite.  

To claim that if one does not enable insourcing then one will get outsourcing is a corporate lobbyist talking point.  The two are complete duals of each other and in many cases insourcing is required for without it they cannot offshore outsource the complex technology.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Hi Robert! Long time no talk! (0.00 / 0)
Hillary Clinton is no better in this regard... There's a reason why Obama called her Senator Punjab.  She'd open the floodgates as well... from my research, her instinct is to eliminate H1B caps alltogether, whereas Obama's inclinations are temporary increases, with employee free choice (making it harder for employers to lowball them), and require more permanent residency so that the workers will not go back to India or wherever after they've been trained here.

Very few democrats and almost no republicans are for intellectual workers' rights, but considering how much money Indian interests have funneled into Hillary's campaign, I'd rather take my chances with Barack.

Unless you have some info that I'm not aware of, and if you do, please enlighten me!  This is an important issue.  I presumed that Hillary was on the wrong side of this from the beginning, but you seem to have some info that I don't...  I  greatly value your opinion in this matter.

Thanks,

Mike

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Obama is worse (0.00 / 0)
You've got it completely wrong on Obama.  Not only has he promised SKIL/STRIV in essence, unlimited H-1Bs (in effect i.e. exceed total possible # of jobs plus F-4),  he is also pushing for the F-4, which will make the H-1B look like kindergarten on global labor arbitrage.  

and in terms of follow the money, he actually managed to outdo Hillary in the great candidate buy out of Silicon valley.  Especially Google.  

Go to NoSlaves.com blog
and look in the archives election '08.  Read front page and read deep, you'll see it.  There are internal corporate videos that are way to long to reference but I've watched them and that also gives you some very good insight, but you have to know your corporate lobbyist buzz words, talking points and it's not all in one nice little youtube spot unfortunately.  

There are various statements that are buzz words for global labor arbitrage he is saying but they all point to unlimited F-4 and believing in this global migration corporate agenda claiming it's all just about "immigrants" versus labor economics.  

Voting record, amendments, lack of co-sponsorship of other bills, all lead to this conclusion as well.  

What happened was I thought they were both equal and after he surged I started doing deep research and also moved onto other economic areas like fiscal, markets, regulation, hedge funds and obviously trade but on just the insourcing issue alone, he's looking good to take Hillary's crown as the poster boy for global labor arbitrage.  that's one of the reasons (too late really) I started piping up, but you have to dig really deep to figure this out actually and go into internal corporate videos, talks, documents.  Lord knows I  was not going to go out and volunteer for Hillary because of insourcing, hence I waited too long to do the deep research to realize out of the frying pan and into the fire.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
That tells us nothing. (0.00 / 0)
Ron Paul is for more guest worker Visas.

I for one don't really care what his policy stance is; since Paul is more a media animal than an effective legislator, and since the reasoning behind most of Paul's policy stances is so convoluted, I don't think his policy stance really conveys to us much information anyway.

The point is, you send out mailers like this, you're campaigning on xenophobia.


[ Parent ]
You've Got To Be Kidding (4.00 / 2)
Of all the shit Bush has pulled over the last seven years, THIS is what Buchanan sees as an impeachable offense?

That was my first reaction. (0.00 / 0)
I guess letting some Mexicans in to keep our agribiz and restaurants going is impeachable, while ordering the slaughter of a million Iraqis who never did anything to us is just business as usual. I'm getting really sick of all these nut cases being given free megaphones.

[ Parent ]
Uh, Yeah! (0.00 / 0)
Hello!  This is Nixon stallwart Pat Buchanan we're talking about.

He probably thinks Bush should get a medal for all the other stuff.  The Richard Nixon/Jefferson Davis Medal of Freedom or some such.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Paleoconservative? (0.00 / 0)
I don't quite see how Paul fits the paleoconservative mold. He's liberal on sex stuff, opposes the Iraq crime, opposes the Drugwar, and supports the good guys on most civil liberties issues. He doesn't really fit into any Republican culture unless you go back 50 years or so. I don't think his views work, taken as a whole, but they could improve the thinking of some Nanny State liberals and make for a stronger progressive movement, IMO.

"Nanny State liberal," Eh? Got Anymore Rightwing Memes? (0.00 / 0)
Just asking, don'cha know!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I tend to associate (0.00 / 0)
The phrase "nanny state" with the drug legalization crowd more than I do with paleoconservatives.  Then again, I find both groups equally repugnant.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
He's liberal on sex stuff?!? HUH?? (4.00 / 1)
He is anti-choice.  Sure, in his stump speeches he'll talk about states' rights, but we know he'll finish making the Supreme Court a wing of the conservative party and I am sure he won't shed a tear when they drop Roe v. Wade and then go down the line to allow the red states to institute Biblical Law which is what I am sure he really wants.  

[ Parent ]
more than that (0.00 / 0)
Ron Paul has specifically said one of his main target areas is to overturn Roe v. Wade.  so freedom and liberty and personal privacy for all....except for women of course.  

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
Some Similarities, But . . . (4.00 / 1)
It's never easy to try to take present situations and apply the same divides from the past, especially since I find politics to rarely be a simple binary debate with only two sides.

Ron Paul is obviously running a campaign that is blatantly pandering to xenophobies.

For a brief period of time in the 1990s, I think there was a strange alignment of various factions in conservative politics.  You had Congressional Republicans rabidly attacking everything that the Clinton Administration did.  You had Perot and Buchanan activists upset over NAFTA.  You had various militia movements that had been spawned by the 1980s Posse Comitatus movement.  Y2K contributed to this too.  For a while, the most racist, xenophobia, homophobic elements of American society were not only afraid of the UN, foreigners, and black helicopters, they were afraid of the United States government, controlled by Bill Clinton and Janet Reno.

Under George W. Bush and post-911, the new threat is obviously the Muslim world.  The same racist, xenophobia, homophobic crowd has picked up rhetoric about "Eurabia" and how Europe is entering a demographic winter.  They are afraid of Mexicans somehow cooperating with fundamentalist Muslims.  The once total fear and paranoia about the US government has vanished almost overnight, leaving Ron Paul pandering to the few militia nuts left who still do worry about the Patriot Act and the like.

I think the conservative split (Buchanan in 1992 vs. Paul in 2008) is less significant today because of how amazingly malleable the opinions and views of the conservative base are.  Once the conservative movement decided to love Big Brother, the sheep very quickly fell in line.  It clearly didn't allow for the nomination of Mitt Romney and prevent a Huckabee surge, but it did minimize the impact of Ron Paul.

The Bush-Buchanan split was also more obvious because Bush Sr. was never seen as a conservative, a member of the insider's club, by the movement.  While it's possible to see parallels between his ideology and today's neoconservatism, I think he drew more inspiration from his New England background and the tradition of the internationalists Republicans who twice stole the Republican nomination from isolationist Robert Taft, the Ron Paul of the 1940s and 1950s, and handed it to Republicans like Wilkie and Eisenhower.  Given the Cold War interventionism and coups backed by Eisenhower, this isn't exactly a benign foreign policy either.  It still has little respect for democracy in other nations, but at least showed a greater respect for international institutions (NATO, UN, etc.) than today's neo-cons.


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