The Clinton Campaign's Contradiction On Media and Electability

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 16:59


Hillary Clinton on beating the Republican Noise Machine:

Well, I don't think Karl Rove's going to endorse me. That becomes more and more obvious. But I find it interesting he's so obsessed with me. And I think the reason is because...  (LAUGHTER) ...we know how to win. I mean, you know, I have been fighting against these people for longer than anybody else up here. I've taken them on and we've beaten them.

So, Hillary Clinton can beat the Republican attack machine in the media. However, if Hillary Clinton can beat back Republican attacks in the media and win, then why is her campaign complaining that the press has been so favorable to Barack Obama? Greg Sargent:

The sight of Hillary advisers attacking the press is suddenly everywhere -- and there's been a shift in the tone of the attacks that is striking. The suggestion is no longer merely that the coverage of Hillary is unfair and that the treatment of Obama is glowing, something that Hillaryland insiders have complained of for a long time.

Rather, the new suggestion is that the press is reveling in Hillary's downfall, and that this lust to see Hillary lose is driving coverage.

Yesterday, for instance, top Hillary adviser Howard Wolfson opined that "every time" the Obama campaign has leveled personal attacks against HIllary, "the press has largely applauded him." Another key Hillary surrogate, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, echoed this line, saying that the media has "relished" Hillary's "fall" with "glee."

Tensions between the Hillary campaign and the media boiled over yesterday. After news outlets began asking questions about Matt Drudge's "scoop" that unnamed Hillary staffers "circulated" a photo of Obama in Somali garb, Hillary spokesperson Phil Singer hit back at the media during a breakfast with reporters, suggesting they were happily allowing themselves to be led around on a leash by Drudge when he offered the chance to write negative stories about her.

"I find it interesting that in a room of such esteemed journalists that Mr. Drudge has become your respected assignment editor," Singer said.

Wasn't Clinton's ability to beat back these attacks supposed to be a big selling point for her on the electability front? In fact, wasn't it also supposed to be a big problem for Barack Obama, who the media supposedly favors? Clinton campaign memo from mid-February:

The GOP Attack Machine Will Redefine the Democratic Candidate; Hillary Has Withstood That Process. As soon as the Democratic nominee is selected, the entire force of the GOP attack machine will bear down on that nominee. This attack machine has been built and honed over decades; it is formidable, and employs all forms of media, from talk radio to major newspaper columns to television, email, blogs, websites, direct mail, and extensive ground networks. It was able to skew public perceptions of two well-respected Democrats, Al Gore and John Kerry, creating impressions about them that were wildly out of step with reality. Hillary Clinton has withstood the full brunt of that machine and actually emerged stronger.(...)

So far, the Republicans have been laying low. Sen. Obama has never faced a credible Republican opponent or the Republican attack machine, so voters are taking a chance that his current poll numbers will hold up after the Republicans get going. With Hillary, the GOP has already tried just about every attack and has failed.  Those attacks are already factored in her ratings, where she remains competitive against Sen. McCain.  But when it comes to Sen. Obama this is a big unknown, and the likelihood is that his negatives will rise.

Now, pardon me for asking, but if Clinton is so well prepared to handle media attacks, and Obama is so poor at it, then why is Clinton's campaign complaining about unfavorable media coverage titling the election to Obama? Am I the only one who thinks those lines of thought are contradictory? More from John Aravosis:

Hillary's campaign had made the topic of the day "what will the Republicans throw at Barack Obama in the fall?" They're talking about Rezko today, they've race-baited Obama repeatedly in the past, and we've had reports that they've recently been sending reporters information branding Obama a Muslim.(...)

Hillary's campaign has already said that they are throwing the kitchen sink at Obama. They will discuss, are discussing, all the bad things that the GOP will throw at Obama in the fall.

So, what will the Republicans throw at Hillary in the fall?

Lots... But I'm not going to be discussing the details of those stories today because I don't want to make our candidate damaged goods in the fall. You will notice that neither Obama's campaign nor Obama's official, or unofficial, surrogates are talking about the Clintons' past or present scandals, the Clintons' negatives, what a Clinton run for the presidency will to Democratic congressional races and governor races across the country.

It does not make any sense to argue, on the one hand, that you are more electable because you are better at handling media attacks, but then, on the other hand, to argue that you are losing the campaign because of media attacks. It also does not make sense to argue on the one hand, that Obama is winning the campaign because of favorable media coverage, but then, on the other hand, to argue that Obama is not electable because he can't handle media attacks. Further, it does not make sense to argue that Obama is untested against Republican attacks, even though during the primary he has faced attacks on his experience, on Rezko, on his past drug use, on the possibility that he is a Muslim, and general race-baiting either directly from the Clinton campaign or from pro-Clinton surrogates. Not only are those exactly the same attacks he will face in the general election, but when both Democrats and Republicans are attacking along those lines, shouldn't the attacks be more effective? So far, being attacked on these fronts by both Clinton and McCain has barely damaged Obama at all.

This doesn't add up. Either Obama is not as strong as Clinton in handling media attacks, or he is not. You can't start complaining about media coverage and still expect people to believe that you are more electable because you are better than handling media attacks. However, right now that seems to be exactly what the Clinton campaign is doing. Unless the Clinton campaign is arguing that some sort of media conspiracy to build Obama up during the primary, only to later knock him down in the general, this doesn't add up. The irony of holding the latter position is that it is exactly the sort of crazy conspiracy that wingnuts and pundits alike have accused the Clintons of engaging in for the past twenty years.  

Chris Bowers :: The Clinton Campaign's Contradiction On Media and Electability

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Is It Tuesday yet? (0.00 / 0)
If she doesn't win at least 65% of the vote on Tuesday -- I'm looking at the Party to sock it to her to leave and leave now -- else many of us will be leaving - leaving the Democratic Party.

I don't get that (4.00 / 2)
I get being upset if the superdelegates overturn the popular vote, or seat the Michigan delegation as is, or whatever. What I don't get is being upset with the party for not trying to kick a candidate out of the primary. Especailly given that Obama would still be the overwhelming favorite for the nomination.

You are going to leave the Democratic Party because its leaders  didn't try to end the primary early, even though your favorite candidate is still on track to victory in that primary? That doesn't make any sense.  


[ Parent ]
the thing is (4.00 / 1)
I don't think folks would mind if they were confident that Sen. Clinton would conduct the next six weeks in an honorable and dignified, positive way.  They just don't want six more weeks of kitchen sink tactics against the guy who's going to win anyway.

Also, I don't want to have to draft a "Intro to Phila-Area Democratic Politics" diary for people ... explaining the First Senatorial District's politics alone will take up more space than I'd prefer.


[ Parent ]
Wasn't that sarcastic? (0.00 / 0)


John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
* yawn * (0.00 / 0)

The anwser to your question is simple. A PRIMARY and a GENERAL election have different rules and different voting constituencies.

The Obama campaign argues that Clinton will do anything it takes to win and its seen as a negative in a primary. In a general election we'd see that as a postive attribute. I doubt anyone is going to complain about Clinton hitting McCain too hard, going too negative or delievering a low blow.

The analogy isn't perfect, but its like sparring versus a real fight. When you sparr you try to go game speed but both parties pull punches. In a real fight you hit as hard as you can.

Primaries are a matter of finesee (sp) and generals are oriented more towards heavy hitting.

Also, while the press as a whole is allegedly pro McCain, I don't think a lot of these prominent reporters who are in Obama's pocket are going to swoon over to McCain. Even if they did, McCain in his wildest imagination doesn't have the carte blanche from the press Obama has.


[ Parent ]
Because they should have 'pulled rank' with some of her (0.00 / 0)
stunts against the Party -- against the rank and file...

I'm tired...

I've gone into a long-winded reason why i've had enough of her over @ TPM...   I want today to be over, and for us to get on track against the republicans -- Obama is way our best candidate.

Plus with the party,,, I'm sick with the cave in's too... All coming at once -- my head is ready to explode.


[ Parent ]
65% pulls her even with Obama, right? (0.00 / 0)
I'm supposing your reference to 65% is Chuck Todd's analysis ( (MSNBC) as of Super-Tuesday that Hillary would need 65% of the toss-up states just to pull even with Obama. At the same time, if Obama got 65%, he would clinch the nomination.  

I haven't see the numbers updated but if they're still valid, if Hillary gets < 65%, then no way can she catch up to Obama.  Then what is the point of continuing anyway?

Speaking of Chuck Todd, in his most recent column on the website (2/20/2008), he says,

Still, there's one piece of media bias that's working in Clinton's favor---it's not dictating the terms of her surrender.

She's being allowed to decide her finish line. With even a one-vote victory in both Ohio and Texas, and she'll get to move the goal posts to April 22nd.

If she wins in Pennsylvania (even if she trails in the delegate count), the goal posts get moved to May 3. You get my point.

I expect Todd's comment and your comment will comprise the focus of post-March 5th discussions: Should Hillary continue or not?  What can she hope to gain...and what might she lose in the process?
 


[ Parent ]
But Chris, (0.00 / 0)
Obama hasn't been attacked in any real way by the media yet, so there is no way to compare.  Look, I think most people can agree that Obama gets favorable treatment because 1) the media dislikes Hillary and 2) Obama has a habit of telling everyone what they want to hear, and that includes the media.   But, what would happen when 1) there is no Hillary for the media to beat up on and 2) when Obama would be forced into actually taking a position on something that the is against high broderism?  The answer, of course, is that we don't know for sure.  But I think Hillary's arugments that we don't want to take a chance on that and that, despite the hits she has taken over the years she is still alive and kicking, are legitimate ones.

those are not quite her campaign;s arguments (4.00 / 1)
her arguments are that she is better at handling these attacks.  So why is she complaining about media coverage?

It may be an unknown as to what will happen in the general election, but that isn't the way the Clinton campaign is portraying it. They are saying that Obama will definitely fare worse against these attacks than Clinton. And yet, it is Clinton who is complaining about media coverage.  


[ Parent ]
Fair enough, but I think you might be conflating issues here (4.00 / 1)
I don't think Hillary is, or has ever, argued that she won't get attacked by the media.  I think her argument is that despite being attacked by the media, she can achieve some actual successes.  

One way of succeding despite the media being against you is to convince enough people that the media is biased against you.  That seemed to work, for example, during the Bill Clinton impeachment days, when Bill reached the height of popularity with the people despite the media war against him.  That, it seems to me, is what she is trying to do now.  And given that her argument has at least some merit, and given the results it seems to be achieving (look at the poll numbers over the last few days), maybe she's right.


[ Parent ]
Would you not.... (4.00 / 1)
......complain point out that the media was giving your current opponent a free ride in the primary?

The Obama campaign can say anything they want...anything and be supported by the corporatist press. That in and of itself should give any progressive pause.

She's merely doing now to a presumed Democrat what she's saying she's done in the past to Republicans. This, were I come from, is called 'fighting your corner against all comers' and frankly Chris.

I think she's right.

The 'conservative' noise machine will gut Obama in the GE like the new fish his is.

We can already see the signs of this, can't find the link, but I read this morning an interview with a working class male voter in Ohio who was deeply worried, deeplu worried, about Obama's 'muslim ties'.

I also find fascinating that after almost two years we are only now hearing of Rezko...Farrakan...'present'...shady backroom deals as a way of life in IL....

Took a while did it not for this to come out? And the timing.....

Interesting.

Do not make the mistake that the citizenry is as well informed on Republican smear technique as we in the 'sphere.

They aren't.

In conclusion, I don't see anything wrong in The Hill protesting the Obama campaign's smear tactics. I just think she left it a little late.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Took awhile?? (0.00 / 0)
All this crap that you mentioned has been going on throughout the primary season.

If anything, Clinton has been getting it easy, recently. Barely heard a peep about Whitewater, for instance, and all that stuff would definitely be coming back in the general election.


[ Parent ]
Clinton survived attacks? (0.00 / 0)
In what universe has Senator Clinton "survived" and "beaten back" Republican attacks?  What is the standard for this?
How can anyone with such high negatives be said to have "beaten back" Republican attacks?
Senator Clinton is a beloved figure, that is true, though we must qualify that statement.  She is a beloved figure within the Democratic party.
Her respect and esteem, again, within the Democratic party, has been well earned, fair and square.  
But fully half the country, it seems, irrationally and reflexively cringes at the thought of a Hillary Clinton presidency.  But that irrational revulsion is there, is queer, and isn't going anywhere.
I just don't get where the whole "experience" and "able to fight the Republicans" stuff comes from.
Her husband got impeached, for god's sake!  They couldn't beat back a nakedly partisan impeachment.  And we're supposed to believe she and her campaign know how to fight the Republicans?
Someone.  Anyone.  Please convince me.  Make an argument.  A valid argument with, you know, evidence?

[ Parent ]
Obama has been attacked (0.00 / 0)
Fox and CNN and the WaPo went with the "he's a Muslim" atory, probably the most insidious attack against him.

The media has repeated all of Hillary's attacks--he's untested, he's inexperienced, he's just a pretty face, he's got no substance, Rezko, you name it.

Hillary isn't quite candid--she's been the subject of numerous right wing and right-wing media attacks, and although she's stood up to them, she's also been seriously wounded by them, especially with people in the middle.  That's why her negatoves are so high.  The people who see her as calculating do so in part because of media coverage.  The people who think she's too centrist or too cautious or too corporate don't see her as such because of media attacks, however.  She did that on her own.

If Hillary is the nominee, we will hear all of the '90s scandals over again, plus everything Bill has done since Jan 2001.  And she will stnad up to them, but she'll be whining all the way about the unfair coverage.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Defining "knowing how to fight back" (0.00 / 0)
Hear, hear, Mimikatz:
and although she's stood up to them, she's also been seriously wounded by them, especially with people in the middle.  That's why her negatoves are so high.  The people who see her as calculating do so in part because of media coverage.  The people who think she's too centrist or too cautious or too corporate don't see her as such because of media attacks, however.  She did that on her own.

Her negatives are high because of the media.  Bob Somerby has convinced me of that.  Evidence convinces.
But that's the point, isn't it?  The media and Republicans went after her and Bill and they were unable to fully counter the attacks.  Their success was mixed.  Bill Clinton could have won a third term but a lot of independents ended up mistrusting her.
If someone tries to paint you as craven, fake, or untrustworthy, and you fight back but your image remains tarnished, then by definition you lost the fight, right?  So how can you say you know how to fight back?


[ Parent ]
You are ABSOLUTELY right (as usual) (4.00 / 1)
The ironic part is that the ability to maintain and actually win (well, we''ll see tomorrow) with this contradictory argument may actually be the first time that Clinton really provides some evidence for the "I can beat back the media" part of the argument. If she does well tomorrow, it is up to Obama to fiercly point out how full of shit the "media is biased against me" half of her argument is. Because if she wins tomorrow, it will largely be because the media got bullied into throwing her a bone.  

it's called working the refs (4.00 / 1)
I don't disagree with anything you say, Chris, but what she's really doing is what is called "working the refs" in basketball. Basically by complaining about the media constantly, she is hoping to make the press feel guilty and go look for something bad about Obama they can blow out of proportion in compensation.

The idea that Clinton has gotten bad press is completely laughable in reality. She's gotten almost a total free pass from the media on her claims of superior experience and foreign policy credentials and has been treated as an equally viable candidate as Obama despite losing 11 straight contests. But ultimately it's not the press' job to attack the opposing candidate. If there's something about Obama the press isn't covering as well as it should, it's Clinton's job to bring it to the voters' attention and vise versa.


It is (0.00 / 0)
part of the process to complain and push back agressively on media narratives. This is what Al Gore and John Kerry did not do and it cost them dearly.

I always say, 'if you can not fight for yourself how can I depend on you to fight for me'. Playing rope-a-dope hoping the public will see your side when you don't take the initiative for yourself won't cut it.


Spot on... (0.00 / 0)
The thing is, if one of her biggest strengths is her ability to deal with a negative media, then she should be the one with a 160+ pledged delegate lead now (assuming she's right about the media bias against her).

In a general election, is this what she's going to do as well?  Just complain about media bias against her and hope that that somehow gets people to vote for her?


oh come on (0.00 / 0)
I just saw Chris Matthews on Hard Ball go on and on pressing about what is is.    On and on, reemphasizing some words to try to put on Hillary, the hate group generated email campaign that Obama is a Muslim, which she has nothing to do with and denounced.  

Absolutely the media is biased and I feel certain to say that there is no one more who has been put through the nasty machine than Hillary Clinton.  

One of the ways of handling attacks is to confront those attacks, that's all that is going on here.  

On a different note, this is just plain funny, it's a Jack Nicholson endorsement for Hillary Clinton but I post it because the last line is a riot.



NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


Chris (0.00 / 0)
Do you agree with the last paragraph in Aravosis's post?

Well, come Wednesday, if Hillary doesn't win 65% of the delegates in Ohio and Texas, and still insists on staying in the race and ripping our party in two, it will be time to start treating candidate Clinton with the same golden rule she is using for candidate Obama. Why? Not for revenge, but for the sake of our party and the fall election. Hillary and her campaign are in the process of turning Obama into damaged goods in the fall. They didn't have to go there, but beating Obama became more important to them than beating John McCain. So, the first question for Hillary come Wednesday, should she decide to continue risking our chances of winning in the fall even though the math says it's over, will be the question she's asking Obama today: What negatives will the Republicans throw against you in the fall? And as I've noted repeatedly, there are some negatives out there that most of you don't even know about - but everyone in Washington knows about them, in detail. That's because even Democrats who don't love Hillary, don't go there, for the good of the party. On Wednesday, the good of the party may dictate that we do.

For me... Emotion says yes but my head hasn't quite figured it out yet.


and the thing is ... (0.00 / 0)
... one can criticize Sen. Clinton for past and present decisions she has made which would not in any way further right-wing memes or framing, and just focus on universal issues like honest, trust, ethics and not having as a senior foreign policy advisor a guy who pled guilty to stealing confidential documents relating to terrorism.  Just sayin', is all.

[ Parent ]
Ethics and Transparency are two (0.00 / 0)
of Obama's strong suits and I don't know why he doesn't hit her more on that.  Especially involving Berger, as you alluded to.

There's a stark contrast between the two on these issues.


[ Parent ]
I don't think Clinton's memo (4.00 / 1)
is about arguing that she's more  more electable because she's better at handling media attacks. She's arguing that the GOP Attack machine will have it easy skewing "public perceptions" of Barack Obama.

Here's how Bob Somerby has put it:

"If the RNC gets its way, Obama is going to get "Dukakised" in the coming months. Our guess: In the main, he will not be treated as a liar/flip-flopper/reinventer, as Clinton, Gore and Kerry were treated. Instead, he'll be treated as an unsettling alien presence, much as Dukakis was played (except more so). The Democratic Party has never nominated a more decent person than Michael Dukakis. But by the time the RNC got through, he was a person with a funny name and olive skin who: 1) "had a problem with the pledge of allegiance"; 2) looked funny riding around in a tank; 3) may have had some sort of mental illness (that was voiced by Reagan himself); 4) was "a card-carrying member of the ACLU"; and 5) had released Willie Horton. Almost surely, similar themes will be voiced against Obama -- and yes, there's material to work with.

She's another story. After 15+ years in the public spotlight, and all she and her husband have been publicly through, she will be very tough to redefine. What we've seen is what we'll get. We already KNOW what'll get thrown at her and what will and won't stick, despite what Aravosis is trying to peddle. The GOP has already turned the Clintons into monsters, yet she's still running neck and neck (well, kindo of neck and neck) with a very attractive and charismatic nominee.


Chris, Chris, Chris (0.00 / 0)
You don't get it at all!  There is no contradiction.

The Clintons are best fighting off attacks from the press because they are good at blaming the press!  That is what they do well and it works.  So what you are seeing isn't a contradiction but an example of the Clintons at work.

You know, I started typing this as a snarky reply, but the more I think about it I think it is actually correct.  Now I'm confused...


Define "good at fighting off attacks", please (0.00 / 0)
This is my third post on this today and I fear I'm going to annoy everyone, but would someone please- please!- tell me why the Clintons are considered so good at fighting off attacks.
He got impeached!  The saner two-thirds of the country knew the Republicans were full of it and he still got impeached!  Why didn't he fight that off?
Why are her negatives so high?  If she really were good at fighting off attacks she'd have a commanding delegate lead right now.  She'd be coasting.  If she really were that good at managing her image and the media, she wouldn't be polling almost fifty-fifty against McCain.
I think people believe she's good at fighting off attacks just because she managed to get elected to the Senate.  She didn't slink away into obscurity.  This is considered success in fighting off attacks.  I see it as surviving.  Barely.
Half the country still hates her.

[ Parent ]
Vote for the Victim (4.00 / 1)
is one of her campaign themes.

John McCain doesn't care about Vets.



Crazy as Digby. (0.00 / 0)
Unless the Clinton campaign is arguing that some sort of media conspiracy to build Obama up during the primary, only to later knock him down in the general, this doesn't add up. The irony of holding the latter position is that it is exactly the sort of crazy conspiracy that wingnuts and pundits alike have accused the Clintons of engaging in for the past twenty years.  

Chris, sad to say, that's exactly what Digby has been alleging for the past two months.  And it is crazy and unconvincing.  She quotes Brian Williams (going all the way back to 2000):

Brian Williams: "[I]t does seem true over the years that the news media almost reserve the right to build up and tear down and change their minds and like an underdog." [9/21/00]

And then uses this same quote, in many posts, to argue that Obama is being built up by the media for the purpose of later tearing him down.

By the way, I found that Digby post by googling "Digby build up tear down."

http://www.google.com/search?h...


Blah Blah Blah Blah!!! (0.00 / 0)
This is just drivel! What a mess. The press loves Obama until it finds out that Obama is the nominee and BOOM the press all of sudden starts to examine Obama...Who is Obama really???? Something alot of democrats have failed to ask. I wonder how many Obamabots know his voting record in the Senate? They know he didn't support the Iraq war vote but i wonder if they even know he wasn't a senator then?

The fact is, Hillary does know how to beat a republican and can play very nasty. You can not run that kind of campaign in a primary. You know that! So this is just a silly pointless post.

Are their "progressives" who really think Obama is just going to float through the GE? That the press wont all of sudden start to ask tough questions??? I don't see Obama up to the challenge...i have seen him stutter quite a bit. Oh well.


The negatives of the campaign (0.00 / 0)
Clinton's negatives are not the product of the media.  They are the results of years of experiencing how she comports herself and the doubles-speak of her public comments/policies.  She and Bill raided the White House when they left--a stink had to be made in the media to force them to return the 'peoples' property to the White House.  Her approach in 1993 to a health-care plan was heavy-handed and dictatorial--she kept all the information/data close and wouldn't allow participation by representatives of the people.  She only wanted to include people who believed as she did.  Her and Bill's photo with Tony Rezko, an opportunity for the Clinton's to gain from Rezko's fundraising acumen and the necessary payment of a personal photo (reserved for only the best fundraisers!).  Clinton's sparse--VERY SPARSE--legislative success record.  Most of her successes are feel-good legislation--you know, naming a building or other such nonsense.  Clinton even portrays herself as a victim of the very machine she claims she has the experience to deal with during a general election--the media.  Even the Iraq issue is filled with opportunities to show Clinton's lack of integrity.  She refuses to acknowledge her mistake with her votes.  Early in her campaign she insisted we will have a presence in Iraq for at least 10 years, but now she says she has always said she would begin withdrawal within 60 days.  She says we need to get out of Iraq, but a quick review of her history--based on her experiences--suggest a very different and very conflicted story.

Obama also has many negatives, and these can be listed just like for Clinton.

However, Obama isn't the one throwing the kitchen sink and then complaining about being victimized.  He seems to want to always take the high road, even when he fails to stay on the high road.  


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