Second March 4th Results Thread

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 22:10


Third results thread here. States with winners are in bold. Updates will appear below the tables. New threads will be created when the comment load becomes too high. First results thread here. Entering the night, my count shows Obama with 1,194.5 pledged delegates, and Clinton with 1,033.5

March 4th Primary and Caucus Results
State Reporting Obama % Clinton % Delegates Obama Del Clinton Del
Ohio 79% 42% 56% 141 35 50
Rhode Island 98% 40% 58% 21 8 12
Texas Primary 57% 48% 51% 126 64 62
Texas Caucus 0% -- -- 67 0 0
Vermont 84% 60% 38% 15 9 6
Total NA NA NA 370 124 128

Update 10: Third results thread here.

Update 9--maybe Clinton can win the Texas primary: Austin and Dallas have reported a majority of their precincts now, and yet Clinton's lead continues to slowly eek forward. Maybe she can win the primary popular vote after all.

Update 8--Axelrod channels Mark Penn: Looks like the Obama campaign thought Clinton's strategy of saying that states don't count was such a good idea, that they would try it themselves. Axelrod:

On losing Ohio, he said it doesn't matter if the campaign didn't win since a Democrat will win Ohio regardless -- due to the economic situation there.

Bleh.

Update 7--Rhode Island Delegate Projection: Since none of the media outlets seem to be doing it, I went ahead and projected Rhode Island's delegates myself. It isn't hard. She won the at-large 3-2, the PLEOs 2-1, the seven-delegate district 4-3, and the six delegate district is either 4-2 Clinton or a 3-3 tie. I guess I should be frustrated that I had to do it myself, but that is one of the main reasons for the progressive blogosphere: we started doing what we were doing because no one else was. DIY rules!

Update 6--Texas Primary Delegate Projection: Burnt Orange Report is currently projecting the Texas primary to break 69 delegates for Obama, and 57 for Clinton. That could change, but it would be huge for Obama if it sticks.

Update 5--Clinton declares victory: Clinton declares victory. Pennsylvania, here we come. Oh wait--I'm already here. This is going to be crazy.

Update 4--on to Pennsylvania?: I have to think that with her decently sized wins in Ohio and Rhode Island tonight, Clinton will stay in no matter what happens in Texas. Rumors are swirling that some Clinton advisors want her to stop if he loses Texas, but I don't buy it. Or, at least I don't buy that as the majority opinion of the Clinton camp. Still, this is all speculation on my part, too.

Update--Clinton Wins Ohio: Took 'em long enough to finally call it. The margins in Cuyahoga just weren't there for Obama. Also, Clinton has edged ahead in the Texas primary popular vote. However, I do not expect it to last.

Update 2--Ohio delegate count explanation: Why is Obama ahead in Ohio delegates despite being down by double digits in the popular vote? First, it is because Clinton's strongest congressional districts tend to be four-delegate districts. In order to take a 3-1 advantage in those districts, she would need 62.5001% of the two-candidate vote. Generally speaking, she is instead coming in at 57%-61%. That results in a 2-2 delegate split, even in her best areas. Second, Obama's best areas, Hamilton and Cayahoga, have yet to report many votes. So, the popular vote will narrow. the still fluctuating popular vote means none of the statewide delegates can be counted yet. So, Clinton's statewide lead is not factored into the delegate count yet. Third, Obama's best districts tend to have six or more delegates in them. In order to win a six-delegate district 4-2, he only needs 58.34% of the vote. So, his bar is lower.

Update--Most cities yet to report: CNN has some great maps of Ohio and Texas that show which counties have yet to report. Generally speaking, the major cities are the places with the most outstanding votes. Cayuhuga (Cleveland) and Hamilton (Cincinnati) have 0% reporting. Dallas (where Obama lead by 30%) is at 4% reporting, Houston (where Obama leads by 24%) is at 1% reporting, and Austin (where Obama leads by 30%) is at 9% reporting. Obama also holds large leads in the counties directly surrounding those cities, and those counties have also reported few votes so far. Clinton is up by 9% in San Antonio, which is at 3% reporting.

Overall, I think Clinton looks set to win Ohio, while Obama looks set to win Texas.  

Chris Bowers :: Second March 4th Results Thread

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Fist (0.00 / 0)
in the air hoping for victory.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

I knew they'd get closer (4.00 / 2)
Obama's lead in Texas has disappeared, though it may reappear once the big cities come in.

Ohio will certainly get closer. If Clinton were to actually win the state by 16%, the networks would have already called it.  


Texas is freaking me out... (0.00 / 0)
She is catching up way too fast.  I WANT the PV.

Ohio delgate counts? (0.00 / 0)
how are you calculating the delegate count in OH? How can Obama still be projected to be even close in delegates with the punishment he is taking?  

Its complicated (0.00 / 0)
But there are several factors:

1--Clinton's strongest congressional districts tend to be four-delegate districts. In order to take a 3-1 advantage in those districts, she would need 62.5001% of the two-candidate vote. Generally speaking, she is instead coming in at 57%-61%. That results in a 2-2 delegate split, even in her best areas.

2--Obama's best areas, Hamilton and Cayahoga, have yet to report many votes. So, the popular vote will narrow. the still fluctuating popular vote means none of the statewide delegates can be counted yet.

3--Obama's best districts tend to have six or more delegates in them. In order to win those districts 4-2, he only needs 58.34% of the vote. So, his bar is lower.

Overall, it basically is because the delegate math is not good for Clinton, and because no at-large, statewide delegates have yet been added into the totals.  


[ Parent ]
Cuyahoga (4.00 / 3)
Cuyahoga, not Cayahoga... it's a native American word for 'combustible river'.

[ Parent ]
Wait... (0.00 / 0)
No city would EVER be so irresponsible as to let a river get so bad that it might get set on fire.  Surely you Jest!

[ Parent ]
Oh for crying out loud (4.00 / 1)
I'm trying to update 12 things at once, and I get corrected for my spelling of a county in a comment thread.

You knew what I meant. I apologize for the typo.


[ Parent ]
yeah (0.00 / 0)
But you have to admit... his joke was funny.

[ Parent ]
Cayahoga (0.00 / 0)
Hey, that's not nice! That was 40 years ago! FWIW, Cayahoga is native American for "crooked river". And it is a long river that doesn't go very far.

[ Parent ]
Wasn't HRC ahead by tons in both ... (0.00 / 0)
just like two weeks ago?

It's so confusing when we count as depressing close races where a candidate makes up huge margins in a short time.


Houston (Harris County) (0.00 / 0)
Chuck Todd just said that the EARLY vote in Harris county is still unreported.  

Why is Cleveland going for Clinton so far? (0.00 / 0)
With 2% reporting, Cleveland is slightly favoring Clinton.

I think we can say that if Clinton wins here, Obama is going to get destroyed in OH.


You answered your own question (0.00 / 0)
Only 2% reporting. Obama will take Cleveland, trust me.

[ Parent ]
Voting Issues in Cuyahoga County (0.00 / 0)
A judge ordered the polls to stay open late in Cuyahoga County because there were problems at the polls.  This always seems to happen in Cuyahoga County in heavily urban areas, which are have a high percentage of African Americans and simply don't provide enough resources to permit everyone to vote in a timely manner.  My guess is the 2% that CNN is showing as reported are Republican areas (white suburban enclaves), where there were no problems at the polls.  So, the 2% is not indicative of the results in Cuyahoga County.  

[ Parent ]
Hamilton and Cuyahoga counties (0.00 / 0)
May say 0% or 1% or 2% for some reason but believe me they are not. Cuyahoga on CNN is at 2% and says Clinton has recieved 32,000 and Obama 28,000. Simple arithmetic will tell you they will not receive 1,600,000 and 1,400,000 respectively in Cuyahoga county. Same applies to Hamilton.

early votes (0.00 / 0)
I assume those higher numbers are from early voting.

After all, there were 1,000,000 votes in Texas when 2% were reporting there. Obviously, Texas wasn't going to get 50,000,000 votes. The descrepency is early voting.

Still, I'm surprised Ohio hasn't been called for Clinton yet.  


[ Parent ]
Which must mean... (0.00 / 0)
That they are seeing something in the Exits.

[ Parent ]
Remember Missouri (0.00 / 0)
The rural count in Missouri showed Clinton ahead by 20+ points. Then the urban areas came in and gave Obama the (eventual) win.

We're seeing a similar dynamic here in Ohio.  


[ Parent ]
Look to Franklin county (0.00 / 0)
as a guide. 80% reporting and Obama with a 17,000 vote lead. I know Columbus is the largest city by population and I believe Franklin to be the largest county in my state. It's over. imo

[ Parent ]
Hey! (0.00 / 0)
Isn't this supposed to be about 'The Will of the People'? Is anybody here charging either campaign with voter fraud, suppression or other dastardly doings?

I heard some rumors about caucus goers being locked out in Texas but recall that there may be some acceptable reasons for that. Not registered, too late etc.

Me?

I think if you can walk up to the door and make your mark you should be able to vote. Period.

I just find it rather discouraging that even here we have that form of primitive behaviour which says,

My candidate is great yours sucks!

This little pithiness used to circulate at CheetoLand as a slight attempt at humor.

No more.

It's been purged.

In the name of 'free speech' one supposes.

Perhaps folks could take a step back and get a perspective on this that doesn't remind one so much of cannibals arguing over the choice bits.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Who are you yelling at? (4.00 / 1)
And really, who are you ever yelling at?  

[ Parent ]
If I had to guess, I think his point is the process is kind of fucked up (0.00 / 0)
 I think you have to admit your matter of fact stating above that Obama has the same delegates as Clinton while she is in the lead by over 200,000 votes in OH is- well- fucked up. There's no way to spin that considering you are a big believer in little 'd' democracy. Again, this is a guess so don't ban me for pointing it out.

Especially after the diary in which you said you would leave the party over the super delegates (that was you right?) but now it appears Obama can't win without them either , can  he? So, how is this democracy where neither candidate will win out right, and either way we are left with either a candidate representing 50 percent plus one of Democratic voters, and one of whom s a little ln 50 percent plus one of Democratic and non Democratic registered voters. Basically, both choices seem kind of off.

But that's our process.

I also think he maybe talking about the crapiness of our choices in general. Coke or Coke with the new formula is still Coke. Gender and/or race doesn't really do much to cover up the fact its Coke.  Thus, I think that's why he mentions how we get in a partisan bother (we the voters) over gradiations of gray rather than any real color differences if you prefer a metaphor.

Or he could be talking about the electorate, and how we fall for this. I am not sure, but those would be my guess.

I am not sure which of these he's referring to, but I can understand the frustration.

Honestly, given all of the above I can understand how half the country really doesn't think politics matters. But, this is all just guessing.  


[ Parent ]
Sorry about this.... (0.00 / 0)
........wrong thread!

As to who am I ever yelling at.....

Generally folks who think:

My candidate is great yours sucks and therefore...you do too!

The lever of disgusting behavior here is pretty low. But it does exist and if you review the smoking ruins of dKos and MyDD you can see where this sort of attitude gets you.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Yeah... (0.00 / 0)
Hillary is bitching as usual about the caucus.  Boo hoo hoo.

[ Parent ]
Ok Hillary its been fun (0.00 / 0)
So, this is a joke. Hillary maybe wins Ohio by 15% - congratulations to her if she does, thats exactly what she needs to do. But she needs to do that too in Texas, and its not going to be anywhere near that. If she's lucky maybe she wins by 1-2% and if she's unlucky Ohio collapses to under 10%. Obama could take Texas outright. Under these circumstances there is no reason for her to stay in. She can't win by the margins she needs in the states most favorable to her. HRC didn't make the big margins to win back delegates like she needed to, and she's not going to. So her only strategy can been to steal away delegates at the convention and get supers to overturn the popular results. Doing so does no-one any good. It's over, time to concede.  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

I'd be surprised... (0.00 / 0)
If a 15% margin held up there.  My guess is that this will come down to 10% or less.

[ Parent ]
Clinton wins Ohio (0.00 / 0)
According to MSNBC. I guess the Urban centers won't be enough to close the gap for Obama.

MSNBC says the margin will shrink, but not enough to change the outcome.


Thats fine... (0.00 / 0)
Its about Delegate Counts.  

Obama needs to hold on and take MS and Wyoming next week and then fight to keep it close in PA.  If he does so, then there is no WAY Hillary can catch him.  And if Florida and Michigan vote again, she's even more screwed.  He should start throwing some ads on in MI and FL.... Bio ads that's all.  If he is the nominee then it works for the GE.  If they revote, then it helps him.


[ Parent ]
I just (4.00 / 1)
want to thank you for the cogent, intelligent analysis of this.  It is the best I have found anywhere.

Caucus (0.00 / 0)
Any idea when the Cacus reports from texas come in?

Probably pretty soon (0.00 / 0)
Started at 9:15 pm in some places. I would actually start expecting reports in a few places right about now.  

[ Parent ]
the CNN.com Live stream (0.00 / 0)
has been showing one.  It ended up Clinton 32% and Obama 67%.  I didn't catch the decimal places; over 700 people signed in.  Now they have split into seperate groups, not sure why.  Maybe to select the actual delegates?

Not that a sample of one proves anything.  

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
I just caucused (0.00 / 0)
started about an hour and a half late. The crowd was maybe 55/35/10 hispanic/white/black, and it looked like Hillary had a small advantage (less than 60-40, based on just eyeballin' it).

Very very anecdotal, but extrapolating from this, I would expect an overall Obama win in the Maine range, rather than Washington or Idaho.


[ Parent ]
If Obama can win Texas (0.00 / 0)
I think the spin will look very different Thursday morning.

The idea of holding re-votes in JUNE would mean this goes on 3 more months.

I think the super-delegates will revolt, and Bills statement earlier about Hillary needing both will provide the cover.  


Hillary declares victory (0.00 / 0)
she says "no nominee has won the presidency without winning Ohio". Well duh.

her supporters chat "Yes we will". its just so sadly unoriginal.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


Actually... (0.00 / 0)
I heard "Yes she will" which is just sad.

Further Reading

[ Parent ]
with the sheer amount (0.00 / 0)
of arrogant mockery that comes not only out of her campaign, but out of HER, I really don't understand how so many people want to vote for her.

that and the whole "a republican is better than Obama" bit


[ Parent ]
3am and substantive debate with McCain (0.00 / 0)
"When its 3am there is no time for speeches or learning on the job."

so she's sticking with the fear mongering. great. real high point.

on McCain, "I congratulate him, and I look forward to having a SPIRITED (emphasis HERS) debate with him."

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
Really?? (0.00 / 0)
That's your comment?  Good lord.  I know it's late but have another cup of coffee and come up with something a little more relevant.  The beauty of this site is that 9 out of 10 people do better than that.  Join THAT majority...

[ Parent ]
playing to women (0.00 / 0)
this is strategy that makes sense. she has women to thank for her Ohio victory, without them she would be lost. she tells an story about a $10 donation from a woman and two daughters who say they cheer for her with every speech. this is nice positive visionary type stuff.

She is now leading the chant on "Yes We Will". Jesus H! My God, she really is trying to steal Obama's tag line. That is just beyond hilarious. I have long accused her of being a parrot, this does not surprise me at all.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
Dodd! (4.00 / 1)
Dodd is ahead in Brooks with only %10 reporting. Go Dodd!  

I guess VA, MD, and WI were outliers? (0.00 / 0)
There is a real divide here between the two candidates, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens to try and bring these two coalitions together. Hillary is thrashing Barack in the Latino vote -- I mean absolutely wiping the floor with him. Same with rural and working class whites.

It looked in VA, MD, and WI that Barack had made inroads in this area -- but I guess not.

Watching the yipping blow-dried poodles on CNN is giving me a major headache, but the narrative about Hillary's major comeback is already starting -- which is so silly. I mean, Barack never really caught up in states where he was starting from way behind, and then the last week was not good for him. The Goolsbee/NAFTA flap really took the wind out of his sails and, as Chris (I believe) made the point earlier this week, he also never really responded all that forcefully to the 3am ad.

It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out -- Barack might lose 3/4 states and come out AHEAD in pledged delegates for the day. I think the rest of the states are geared majorly for one candidate versus the other, except for maybe Penna and Indiana. Are we going all the way to the convention, or do the Supers pull the plug next week?

Intriguing stuff.


They weren't outliers (0.00 / 0)
Post-Super tuesday february was just a very favorable schedule for Obama, and Clinton was caught unprepared for those contests. Good demographics and superior organizing can go a long way. Clinton demonstrated the same thin in Ohio and Rhode Island tonight.  

[ Parent ]
I've been saying this everywhere- but (0.00 / 0)
Doesn't this point to the fact they need each other for either to have a serious chance of winning on Nov?

[ Parent ]
Possibly (0.00 / 0)
At this point, vice-presidential speculation might be moot, on both sides.  

[ Parent ]
Just because someone prefers Clinton over Obama (0.00 / 0)
...doesn't mean that they won't vote for Obama in November.

We preferred Dean in 2004, but we still voted for Kerry.  


[ Parent ]
Maybe so but I am looking at intensity of behavior (0.00 / 0)
coming out of both camps. Also, looking at how people view McCain. The appeal of CLinton versus Obama or vice versa, etc. It just seems to me they are more a natural fit than either side would like to admit.

[ Parent ]
The problem is the flip side... (4.00 / 1)
The youth vote which has turned out in droves for Obama will completely dissipate if Obama is not on the ballot, especially given Hillary's sharp descent into deep negativity. This, above all else, is the main reason I prefer Dr. Hope over the Great Triangulator.

I think that, together, they would be an amazing ticket. It would be hilarious watching the wingnuts slobber all over themselves in a futile orgy of hate: Muslim! Lesbian! Muslim! Lesbian!... and, boy, would that ticket have resources.


[ Parent ]
Texas (0.00 / 0)
Not sure where Burnt Orange is getting their numbers..I'm a bit freaked about Texas right now... A PV win would be big for him right now.

Burnt Orange (0.00 / 0)
Not sure if there numbers are right... their numbers only add up to 2.8 million.  They are 800 to 1 mill short.  Her lead is growing... this sucks.

[ Parent ]
Obama turns the table on the McCain comparison (0.00 / 0)
In his speech he is lumping the two together. "Hillary and John McCain should know...".

It was a mistake for Hillary to put herself in company with McCain against Obama. It will be worth watching if Obama can tie the knot between them.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


Obama numbers don't add up. (0.00 / 0)
35+8+64+0+9 = 116  not 124.

Cunha for Congress (FL-06)

P.S. I'm not a big fan of John McCain


tonite (4.00 / 1)
From what I can see, Hillary is the beneficiary of a whole lot of positive spin that isn't supported by the facts.  Texas is going to be super close no matter who wins, and Obama will likely gain some delegates in that state even if he loses the popular vote.  Vermont and RI are a wash, which leaves Clinton with some measure of victory in OH, which won't be finalized until the wee hours.  Delegate-wise, she may in fact lose ground tonite.  In what universe is that regarded as a win for Hillary?  The goalposts have been moved so fucking many times for her that I'm not sure they are still in the stadium.

McCain keeps saying my friends (4.00 / 1)
I wish he would stop it. just stop it you wacko. you sound pathological!

ugh. good gracious, please America, I beg you, do not elect this douche bag.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


Late night speculation on Texas (0.00 / 0)
With 2,064,000- votes counted, Hillary has a lead of 60,000+.
With another 750,000 to 900,000 votes to go, many of them in Harris County and Dallas County, I'd guesstimate that Obama will gain up to 125,000 net votes from the urban strongholds before the count is finished.

Comments from other observers?

On Ohio, sure took the pollsters a long time to adjust the exit poll numbers upward by 4% for both men and women voters, to push Clinton's votes up from 51% to about 55.5%.

Worst thing about the numbers in Ohio is that the result will reinforce the Clintonistas in attack ads on Obama.  On the other hand, if Obama can develop effective responses, he may become almost bullet-proof by the time the Republican slime machine kicks into high gear....


You're Not Counting the Pro-Clinton Areas (0.00 / 0)
Clinton will pick up net votes in other areas of the state, where they are not done counting votes.  That will eat into the 125,000 vote gain you've identified.  It's easier to identify that vote gain that Obama will muster because its concentrated in a few urban areas.  If you begin to look at the other counties, you'll find many Clinton counties where there is 100% reported, but you'll stumble into Clinton counties where votes are yet to be counted.  Still looks like Texas is up for grabs to me.  

[ Parent ]
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