Adding On To Delegate Math

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:30


Add-on delegates are the latest revelation in delegate math for the Democratic campaign. It turns out that there are only 719 superdelegates, and 76 add-on delegates (neither total includes Florida or Michigan). The schedule for the selection of add-on delegates can be found here. While I am currently under the impression that add-on delegates will be winner take all in every state, I will continue to learn more about the subject. With current projections of add-on delegates included, here is the new delegate math:

Democratic Nomination Campaign Delegate Projection
Delegate Type Obama Clinton Other Remaining 50%+1
Pledged 1,389.5 1,238.5 26 599 1,627
Super 206 243 0 270 NA
Projected Add-ons 36 27 0 13 NA
Total 1 1,631.5 1,508.5 26 882 2,024.5
Florida 71 116 13 10 NA
Total 2 1,702.5 1,624.5 39 892 2,129.5
Michigan 1 82 55 18 NA
Total 3 1,703.5 1,706.5 94 910 2,208

Notes on the table can be found in the extended entry. Before the detail of the numbers obscures all else, I wish to make a couple of observations on the table.

First, according to Total 1, Barack Obama has already essentially wrapped up the nomination. First, he requires only 40% of the remaining pledged delegates to reach 50%+1 in that category, which is virtually guaranteed. Second, According to Total 1, he would need only 395 more delegates to win, or 44.64% of the remaining delegates. He has at least a 95% chance of accomplishing that goal, given that even on March 4th he won 49.19% of the pledged delegates available that day. If that is the biggest defeat he can suffer, 44.64% should be a shoe-in.

According to Total 2, Obama has a decent lead, but the nomination is not out of Clinton's reach. Obama would need 47.94% of the remaining delegates in order to clinch the nomination. While the odds would be in favor of Obama pulling that off, it is unlikely that he would supercede his magic number of 429 by very much. There is a real chance that Clinton delegates plus Edwards delegates plus undecided superdelegates would be a majority heading into July and August.

According to Total 3, neither candidate has any realistic chance to have the nomination sealed by July. Both candidates would require 55% or more of the remaining delegates in order to reach the magic number, a virtually impossible task. In this scenario, the 55 unallocated delegates from Michigan, along with Edwards delegates and undecided superdelegates, would either decided the nomination behind closed doors / at the credentials committee in July and August, or on the floor of the convention in late August.

Total 3 is what we must all work against, and also why a revote in Michigan is absolutely imperative. In that scenario, an obscenely unbalanced Michigan delegates of Clinton 82, Obama 1 would force the nomination campaign at least into July, and also guarantee that it is settled behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms instead of by the voters. It guarantees that large swaths of Obama and Clinton supporters will be extremely upset at the outcome of the nomination, no matter who ends up winning. In short, it leaves the Democratic Party pretty much screwed. A revote in Michigan is essential to ending the nomination in June and producing a winner widely accepted as legitimate. That is what is necessary to unify the party, win in November and maintain a positive image for the party. It has to be done.

I honestly don't care if there is a revote in Florida or not. Simply put, I don't think a revote will change the results all that much, although Obama probably gain a handful of delegates compared to current projections. Mainly, I just want a quick resolution to the Florida situation that both the Obama and Clinton campaigns accept, so that we can focus on other matters as all this process talk doesn't help the party much. By contrast, a revote in Michigan is absolutely essential in order to avoid a gigantic mess once the voting is over in June. Without a revote in Michigan, we are headed to smoke-filled rooms behind closed doors, then to the credentials committee, and then to the floor of the convention in late August. And whatever happens, people will leave the party in droves once it is all over. That simply cannot be allowed to happen. There absolutely must be a revote in Michigan. The progress on this front is hopeful, but there is not much time left and a deal needs to be completed soon.

Now, given that Hillary Clinton is talking about pledged not delegates not being fixed either (which is technically true, but most of them are heavily vetted activists for one candidate or another), we are probably going to the convention no matter what happens. However, there is a difference between going all the way to the convention without a presumptive nominee, and going all the way to the convention with a presumptive nominee. The latter is easily acceptable, every candidate's right, and something that happens almost every cycle anyway. However, for all of the reasons stated here, the former is a serious problem for the party, and needs to be avoided. We need a presumptive nominee by the end of June who is viewed as legitimate by virtually everyone who participated in the nomination campaign. There is a chance that won't happen, even without any smoke-filled arm-twisting rooms or credentials committee disputes, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Chris Bowers :: Adding On To Delegate Math
Notes the table:
  • Pledged delegate totals are more own, and more detail on my projections can be found here. In states where all pledged delegates have not yet been chosen, I have projected the final pledged delegate count. In cases where my projections disagree with other sources, I stand by my numbers until proven otherwise.
  • Superdelegates totals are taken from Democratic Convention Watch, minus the two add-on delegates already allocated to Clinton and the one add-on delegate already allocated to Obama.
  • Projected add-on delegates are derived from this chart. For now, all add-on delegates are assumed to be allocated to the popular winner of the state in question, which means Nevada and Texas are projected for Clinton. I will work on finding more information on these delegates and update projections according to that new information.
  • Numbers for Florida and Michigan are based on the disputed primaries held in those states back in January. Totals for those states include pledged delegates, superdelegates, and projected add-on delegates.

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Thanks! (0.00 / 0)
Chris, how does the math look if they took the RNC path and just agreed to seat 50% of both delegations as is?  I think the Florida delegation should be seated this way any way and while I would prefer that Michigan have a re-vote, I could live with seating their corrupt delegation at 50% if it didn't tip the balance.  Both states need to be punished for their rule breaking and seating 50% of their delegations, re-vote or not, seems like the best option.

Revote (0.00 / 0)
Listening to Obama surrogates they just talk about the "rules" to make the entire process illegitimate and Clinton unethical.   Seems even though a revote would give them more delegates, they are more concerned about another "big" contest loss and prefer the above meme.

Number change? (0.00 / 0)
Does Foster's election change anything (however small)? Does it add another super-delegate on changing the 50+1 numbers or does he replace one of the add-on delegates or does his super-delegate status not go into effect for this primary? He obviously has come out for Obama.

Nevada and Texas (0.00 / 0)
Who exactly is choosing the add-on delegates in Nevada and Texas? Aren't they the same ones choosing the at-large pledged delegates? (Also, it looks like Obama won the popular vote in Texas if you add the people participating in the primary and the caucus -- we don't ignore the caucus in other states.)

EricV, Chris's numbers include Foster. See DemConWatch for more.


Based on the spreadsheet projections... (0.00 / 0)
Obama needs about 60 more superdelegate endorsements to put himself in a position to get 2,025 after South Dakota and Montana. That's definitely doable.  

Further Reading

Both Florida and Michigan must revote (0.00 / 0)
There will be no legitimacy to the winner of the nomination at this point, if these 2 absolutely pivotal and crucial general election states don't both get to have their votes count.

And both campaigns need the validity of new votes in order not to have their supporters feel cheated and enormously angry.

The voters in both states have the right to decide who the nominee of the party should be...They should be respected.  They didn't vote to send delegates to just be seated in order to go to fancy parties,  but to represent them in choosing the nominee of their party.  That has to be respected.

And if the Obama campaign through surrogates like Donna Brazille want to deny the Democratic voters of this state the right to vote...they are being enormously selfisn and foolish.  Selfish.   because the only reason to say no is to make sure they are the nominee.....and foolish because that would make him the nominee of a party that has disrespected the right of the VOTERS to VOTE for the
nominee.

You don't succeed as a Democrat telling other Democrats I don't want you to get the right to vote.  

Donna Brazille....after contradiction her own words spoken on CNN on Jan 29th urging Florida and Michigan to have a "party process"  to get their delegates to count.....she said

Don't even think of a do-over by Donna Brazille
http://www.middlesborodailynew...

Anybody who has ever complained of Begala and Carville being Clinton supporters....might have the sense of fairness to have Donna Brazille declared a undeclared Obama supporter.

This article came just after the Obama people said no to Michigan...despite literally being exactly the opposite of what she said on the night of the Floridia primary.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
May 20th Is an Important Day (0.00 / 0)
Obama will almost certainly cross the threshold of winning the majority of pledged delegates when the Kentucky results come in on May 20th. We could see a stampede of superdelegates after that day.

Absolutely imperative? (0.00 / 0)
I don't understand this delegate stuff very well, but if I'm reading this correctly, isn't it 'absolutely imperative' either that a) there's a Michigan re-vote or b) the Michigan delegates aren't seated?

Doesn't 'b' fix the problem? At least the one identified in this post?


Don't know if this helps (0.00 / 0)
But here is an article from last week telling us the mayor of KC's quest for a remaining super-delegate spot:

http://www.kansascity.com/news...


If I allocate (4.00 / 1)
delegates in Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania giving Clinton 55% and Obama 45%, this is what I get:

Obama still has over a 100 pledged delegate lead.    


In that case (0.00 / 0)
Obama would only need 39.5% of remaining delegates to clinch the nomination.

In fact, he could do it with 56.4% of the remaining pledged delegates (not impossible to reach, with PA off the board) and not one additional superdelegate.


[ Parent ]
Edwards (0.00 / 0)
clearly aligned himself with Obama during the debates. Recall the "When people start talking about change, the status quo attacks."

questions:

does Edwards control the edwards delegates?

if not then is each edwards delegate voting independently? and if so then we can probably expect as a worse case scenario for Barack is a 50/50 split.

I think any projection/speculation should reflect the unlikely hood that Hillary can anything better than a split among Edwards delegates.


Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


Bill Foster... (0.00 / 0)
Chris,

With the election of Bill Foster, Obama has received yet another superdelegate endorsement.  Since this was a formerly Republican seat, this means the number of superdelegates has increased by one, correct?  Which means the overall number of delegates has risen by one, and the total needed for the nomination now really should be 2,025.  


Foster (0.00 / 0)
Chris is using the superdelegate numbers from DemConWatch, which already include Foster. The total needed is 2,024.5, up from 2,024 it was before Foster's election.

[ Parent ]
Ahh... (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, I forgot that the number dropped when it was discovered Ken Curtis was registered in Florida and thus stripped of his SD status.  

[ Parent ]
add-on delegate explanation (0.00 / 0)
Chris: add-on delegates are determined by a special election held by the pledged delegates of each state. Basically, the Clinton team will nominate a Clinton supporter, the Obama campaign will nominate an Obama supporter, and the winner of the vote becomes the add-on delegate (and another superdelegate in favor of that candidate). Since the candidates are picked for their loyalty to their candidate, they are about as loyal as a pledged delegate - in other words, they aren't likely to flip their allegiance like the other traditional superdelegates could do.

Clearly, in most cases, the candidate with the most delegates in a particular state will have more voters in this special election, and will thus almost always win the election. However, note that I did say "almost". For example, in a state like Nevada, where Clinton holds a lot of institutional influence but Obama won two more pledged delegates, there may be some backroom deals or other shenanigans to get Obama delegates to flip their support to Clinton. More often than not, it doesn't work, since we can be fairly certain of their loyalties, but it's enough incentive to get both campaign to contest every one of these special elections and do whatever they can to steal an add-on from the other guy.

Trusting that your numbers are right, this of course makes Clinton's task of coming back to win the nomination that much harder.


I agree with a caveat to how seating should be done (4.00 / 1)
First, good work on your projections.

I do agree that the Florida pledged delegates should be seated as is and that Michigan should get a revote. The one concession the candidates and states should make is that they be stripped of SD's and add-on delegates. In both states the add-on delegates are selected by the party elite and some of that party elite are also SD's. Let the rank and file have a say, but Michigan party leadership screwed the Dems. Florida leadership was given the option last year (according to Howard Dean) to have a separate Presidential preference election paid for by the DNC, which they turned down. So Florida being stripped of SD's and add-ons does seems reasonable as well.

Punish the leadership, not the rank and file. Florida and Michigan voters can decide next time these folks come up of election if they want to keep them around.


Great Idea (0.00 / 0)
One of the best hypothetical solutions I've heard to the problem.

[ Parent ]
Excellent idea (0.00 / 0)
This needs to become a DNC rule.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
Michigan and Florida (0.00 / 0)
Chris, the Obama camp has been way too slow to make a simple point that could/should be repeated over and over again to the media narrative:

If Hillary Clinton were winning, should wouldn't care less about Michigan or Florida. In other words, her interest in these states being seated is entirely disingenuous.

Also, isn't there video of Clinton in the fall -- when she thought she'd win easily -- saying that Michigan and Florida don't count? The Obama camp, again, needs to get this video into the argument. In a sense, it shuts a lot of it down.


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