Representing Where No President Has Represented Before

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 15:56


I am not offended by Jeremiah Wright. In fact, Wright is actually one of the reasons I have always liked Obama. And no, that is not because I am religious (I'm not) or that I actually liked the comments that have caused a controversy about Wright (I don't). Instead, Obama's upbringing, including the church he attends, provides him with a perspective on a large segment of America that is rarely represented either in popular American culture or in the executive branches of state and federal governments. If you live in a large American city, but not in one of the expensive / gentrified areas of those cities, you know that there is absolutely nothing shocking or even unusual about Jeremiah Wright. For example, in West Philly, where I live, anarachists are still common, Republicans receive less than 10% of the vote, the median annual income is only $24,000, and whites are only 20% of the population. Wright would fit in perfectly with my neighborhood.

Before the media and Republicans get themselves all in a tizzy over someone like Jeremiah Wright, maybe they should actually learn about places such as the South Side or West Philly. Quite frankly to be "shocked" or "offended" by Wright is to be shocked or offended by places like West Philadelphia. It is all perfectly normal here:

Rev. Wright has not said anything that has not been said or is not being said in bars, poolrooms, barber shops, hair salons or anywhere else more than three black people gather.

And don't fool yourself. It's not just the black urban poor, those without jobs, education or hope, who express these comments. Many members of the black middle class have the same sense of history; the same sense of anger.

And it ain't illegal to be angry.

Since the beginning of time, large numbers of poor people and cultural minorities have been angry at their governments. One of the reasons of this is that they are compartively shut out of the national power structure. Rarely, if ever, does someone from a poor neighborhood and / or from a cultural minority group rise to become a head of state. While Obama's rhetoric marginalizing progressives ("anti-military, 70's love-in"), that he comes from a, urban, community organizing, African-American religious left background is a clear indication that he understands areas of the country like West Philly better than any other major Presidential candidate in history.

Some of our past presidents have come from modest backgrounds, but places like the South Side and West Philly have never produced Presidents. In fact, David Paterson is one of very few Governors who represent a comparable area (Harlem). While clearly it is not helping Obama on the electoral front all that much, that perspective is a huge net positive for how he will perform as President, not a negative. There is, after all, a reason why people who live in the South Side, or Harlem, or West Philly sometimes get pretty pissed off at their country. One of those reasons is that the people who have always led the country have not governed in a way that includes places like the South Side, Harlem or West Philly. Personally, I think it would be a big step forward to finally have a President who does understand those parts of the country, which might in turn lead to the future generations in those neighborhoods being a lot less angry at America.

Obama's "major speech" on race in America tomorrow morning should be worht a listen.

Chris Bowers :: Representing Where No President Has Represented Before

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Thanks Chris (4.00 / 6)
Your post provide some DESPERATELY needed perspective. Now if only MSNBC had a "Morning Bowers" instead of "Morning Joe" show, I wouldn't be so fucking depressed.

Fantastic. (4.00 / 1)
I'd also point out Paul's post from this weekend (Black America) Invisible Nation which makes the empirical case for how minorities definitely get left behind.

"Racism without racists." was a key phrase I took from it.



That's Where Jesus Came From, Too (4.00 / 4)
It's also worth noting that both Jesus and the Old Testament prophets whose words he echoed and amplified came from similar backgrounds, and that Christianity was, for its first few centuries, the religion of the underclass of the Roman Empire.

If anyone has a legitimate claim to be in tune with the "original intent" of the Bible, it is folks like Wright and his congregation.

(Note: I, too, have lived in West Philly.  I was less than 2 blocks from the MOVE house that Rizzo attacked with a small army in August, 1978.)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


MOVE (0.00 / 0)
Actually,  MOVE was attacked by the African American, presumably liberal, Democratic Mayor Wilson Goode, a fact which might worth taking into account in considering the likely policies to be enacted by an Obama administration.

Or perhaps not.


[ Parent ]
That Happened Years Afterwards (0.00 / 0)
And I had left Philly by then.

Make no mistake, Philly's racial and political problems were centuries in the making, and MOVE was not exactly a beloved outfit in the neighborhood at the time I lived there.  They had been, years before, but they'd alienated most of their community support by the time I moved there.

So without defending Goode for a minute (the folks I thought better of then, such as John Street, had seriously failings when their turn came) I think it's fair to think that (a) Goode was in a tight place (it was still Rizzo's police force) and MOVE helped bring out the worst in him and (b) there are far more political openings in the US today than there were in Philly in the mid-80s.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Speech (0.00 / 0)
Obama needs a home run tommorrow.  He needs something as inspirational as the convention speech was.  That's the level of play needed.  This could make or break him.

Of course the conspiracy theorist in me thinks the Clinton camp released this... given some of their statements in the past, I think its a real possibility.  This is a major test and if Obama can head it off now, he will make a very good argument for November.


He needs to not become defensive about this part of his life (4.00 / 1)
I agree with Chris that this is a part of who he is. Not the specific controversy as to what Wright said, but the idea of the black community and from where he choose to live. It would go a long way to making me like him better if I thought he could "be black" without everyone running from the hills for doing so. That he's not been a loud to do so and suceed electorally is one of my principle issues with why he's a flawed candidate. Its all well and good for him to have these connections, but its not good if he isn't allowed to discuss unless its to refutiate it or return to happy talk.

[ Parent ]
Similar to what needs to be said tomorrow... (0.00 / 0)
We'll see what Obama has to say... I think this hits the nail on the head for sort of a "theme" that Obama should go for tomorrow.

I grew up as a kid (2.50 / 8)
in South Central Los Angeles. For those who know the area 111th Street and Main. I could sit out in my front yard and hear the preachers who held services in the old theater a block down on Main.

And I tell you what - from time to time you could listen to their anger that they would preach to their flock.

Luckily we moved from there before the Watts Riots but I still stayed in touch with my mostly Black friends who I grew up with since grade school. And during those riots they told me of stories of the Black Ministers who were preaching rebellion and chaos at that time. Sure not all of them were but there were the Rev. Wright's if you will.

To defend anyone like that is ludicrous. It has no place in our society. And to honor Obama for having this man as a friend and mentor not to mention as a spiritual adviser is appalling. Wright didn't turn into what he showed recently during his final days. He has preached that type of hate on and off for many years just like the maverick preachers in South Central did. And that is who Obama chose to listen to and to have baptize his children and to marry him.

That those actions and choices that Obama made don't upset people but instead gets praised is a sad commentary.


I disagree , but don't think you deserve be down rated (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
It's pretty sad that people take license here to trash Clinton on conspiracy theories but take offense to people mentioning something about Obama.

My experiences in South Central are true and there are preachers like that all over the country. Some have even run for President.

I'm not quite sure why people disagree with my opinion on why Obama choosing Wright as Obama did is not a noble thing. If I listened to Al Sharpton spread his Jewish hate it that noble? If I listened to the radical Jesse Jackson of the '70's is that noble?

Then why would listening and embracing Wright for all those years be noble? That type of talk has no place in society. That type of talk is not bridging the racial divide, yet that is who Obama listened to for many years.


[ Parent ]
Problem Is, There Were Far Too FEW Such Preachers (0.00 / 0)
Though I find your description "preaching rebellion and chaos" to be ludicrous on its face (How does one "preach chaos"?  Were they doing a Crazy World of Arthur Brown routine?) the actual history of the black church in the 1950s and 60s was that of tremendous caution, and in many cases downright obstruction, even collaboration with the oppressive white power structure.

You don't have to take my word for it, just look into the history of the SCLC.  It was founded for one simple reason: the organized Black Baptist church would not support the civil rights movement.  Many individual preachers and congregations would, of course.  But the national organization would not.  And so it was necessary to form an independent organization of religious leaders to carry on the work.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
A Few (0.00 / 0)
are too many.

I don't have statistics. I just know what I heard with my own ears and what my old friends were saying what was going on in some churches during the riots.

Additionally Donna Brazile said on This Week: "I've known Jeremiah Wright and actually Jeremiah Wright is one of the more moderate black preachers".

Moderate?

She also said: "Just go to the church down the street from my house and I see women coming with their hats on the other side of their head [as Donna demonstrates in the screencap] because they have been lifted up."

Meaning of course there was some hate filled Fire and Brimstone being preached from those Black pulpits.

More Brizile: "And that [Wright] generation wanted to basically talk about recrimination. And I think that's the strong thing that Barack has to navigate."

So much for the '80'ss, '90's, and 2000's. Perhaps there was moderation and caution in the '50's and 60's but we are not talking about the '50's and 60's. This kind of goes to your post yesterday of bringing up the past when the past has nothing to do with today.

More Brizile: "I'm sure he sat in church when the preacher said something that would make white people uncomfortable. I've sat in church when I've been uncomfortable."

Amen sister! Exactly what I have been saying. Obama choose to sit through this type of sermon. And so did Brazile - an Obama supporter.

Now all that is not going to go away. And Obama opened himself up to it. Not only is it going to offend people who are borderline racially sensitive, it is going to go against his judgment and values and whether people want him as President.

An analogy would be that Romney's Mormonism was a factor in him not doing so well and Obama's radical preacher may do the same to him.

This election is all about getting a Democrat in the WH. This is not about Obama win or lose. There are attacks on Obama both fair and unfair that can be used against him that can't be used against Clinton.

And for those who say he has long down ticket coattails - well those coattails are getting pretty short and ragged.

Say what you want Paul but I talk from experience not from history books. I just got back from the store and I have a Black friend who works there who told me he is hearing the same stuff in his San Bernardino church as what Wright was saying and I'm certain it is happening all over the country. You can bet the GOP has the cell cams busy at work on Sundays all over the nation.


[ Parent ]
You Keep Veering Farther And Farther From The Subject (0.00 / 0)
in a typical right-wing way.  Forget about Obama, let's talk about his preacher, and see what we can take out of all historical, cultural, social and economic context.  No, forget about that.  Let's talk about all the other Black preachers in the country, now that one of their own has been dissed, and see if we can catch them getting angry about that!

Hence I cry, "Better trolls, please!"

p.s.

You:

This kind of goes to your post yesterday of bringing up the past when the past has nothing to do with today.

William Faulkner:

The past isn't dead.  It isn't even past.

143 years after the end of slavery, and we're still obsessing over, and lying about race.

Faulkner wins, hands down.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well if you really said (0.00 / 0)
anything worth responding to I would.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, what the hell? (4.00 / 2)
You may not agree with the sentiment but this comment was hardly worthy of a troll-rating.  

[ Parent ]
It absolutely has a place in our society (4.00 / 1)
I uprated you too, but I also disagree.

While I vehemently disagree with the things Wright said, there isnt anything you can say in the United States (short of intentionally inciting violence)that does not belong in the United States. That's one of the freedoms that we all cherish.

He's allowed to believe whatever idiotic things he wants to. We are allowed to disagree and call him a fool and a bigot.

But all of us are allowed to say it out loud.


[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
And You are right. The problem is what you listen to when you are running for President.

I can look at porn online legally. Can someone running for President do the same and get elected?

Can anyone who runs for President do a lot of the things the regular guy can do?


[ Parent ]
I see your point. (0.00 / 0)
I wish they could. Not because I want my President to own the Debbie Does Dallas box set, but because I'd like, for once, to feel like my president is a real person, not someone who we all assume is above it all and above reproach.

I think that is ultimately what led to the nonsense at the end of the Clinton Administration. Clinton had a very human failing, but it was viewed as unforgivable, to some people, because he was The President, and the President is assumed to be above such human failings.


[ Parent ]
I don't think you desrve a zero either (4.00 / 1)
Giving you a zero is the same as putting one's finger in one's ears.  

Refusing to listen to how people who aren't partisans of his are taking this is a recipe for losing in November.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Yes, But (4.00 / 1)
This guy's a troll.  He's not representative.  Look at his patterns of argumentation. Just keep that in mind when you read him.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
If you say so I trust your opinion (0.00 / 0)


"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Please Don't! (0.00 / 0)
Don't trust my opinion!  Look and see for yourself, and make your own decision.

I actually hope I'm wrong and someone can get through to him.  But I sincerely doubt it, and feel compelled to share my perspective.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
As long as you refuse to see, you won't see. (4.00 / 2)
shortfuse, your white flight from SCLA is very telling.  Many blacks don't have the luxury of escaping poverty, and that's where the bitterness comes from.  Rather than judging these pasters, why didn't you go inside the church and fellowship with them?  Who knows--perhaps if more whites had done that instead of looking at blacks like they're fish in a bowl, we would be further along in racial reconciliation.

Obama is not going to save this nation from its history of racial brutality.  But I fear that if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination, at least, we will have a whole new generation of disaffected black youth (i.e., a whole new generation of Rev. Wrights).


[ Parent ]
Actually I did (0.00 / 0)
go to Black churches with Black neighbors because my mother wanted me to see worship other than the Catholic church. I loved the Back churches with the singing and the energy and the active participation. But I don't agree with preaching hate and railing against the White man because that has no place in any church just as railing against Blacks in the '60's White churches had no place. It works both ways.

Electing a President is not about lifting up the Black youth or any color youth. Electing a President is about doing what is right for the country as a whole. And in this case that means electing a Democrat and day by day Obama is looking less electable that the day before.


[ Parent ]
This is our moment (0.00 / 0)
Electing a President is not about lifting up the Black youth or any color youth.

Like I said in my earlier post--Obama is not some savior who will rescue us from our racist past, and present.  But if blacks perceive that MSM, the Clintons, and Republicans have systematically derailed the viable candidacy of an African American, then they may sit out the GE this fall, or God forbid, vote for McCain (BTW, I have heard the McCain thing uttered by many blacks).  If this happens, then that democrat that you want elected into office will never be.

It's to the Democratic party's benefit to try to reconcile racial tensions stirred during this election.  Part of the reconciliation requires understanding and empathizing with the frustration many blacks feel.  By merely condemning Rev. Wright, without seeking to understand why people are drawn to him, we miss an opportunity as a nation to deal with race.  The only time our nation talks about race is when there is some disaster, Katrina, LA Riots, James Byrd's murder, etc.


[ Parent ]
Just because (0.00 / 0)
Obama is Black does not give him special privileges or make him off limits to the normal political process.

Sure he has a "viable" candidacy. But that alone does not mean he will get elected just because of who it piss of if he isn't.

I don't buy your argument at all.


[ Parent ]
Still missing the point (4.00 / 1)
I don't buy your argument at all.

I'm not saying Obama should have special privileges from MSM because he's black. Although it is interesting that we never heard any of Huckabee's sermons, and no one demanded that Romney apologize and/or denounce and reject his Mormon faith, even though that church has had a very recent history of racism and sexism. So one has to wonder if Obama is being held to a different set of standards.  

But I digress--you don't have to buy my argument.  When Hillary Clinton loses to John McCain in the GE in part because millions of blacks stayed at home, you will have all the proof you need.  We can deal with racial tensions now, or we can deal with racial tensions later.  It's America's choice.


[ Parent ]
Well if Clinton get the nomination (0.00 / 0)
and Blacks stay home because a Black guy didn't, then what would that say about their patriotism and dedication to the Democratic Party?

And frankly I think you are wrong and are guessing at best and using the race card at worst to make a case for Obama. I don't think a lot of Blacks will stay away because they know Clinton, who the majority of who backed her heavily in the beginning, is much better than McCain. They aren't going to cutoff their nose to spite their face.

FYI - I mentioned Romney in an earlier post and likened his Mormonism to the big problem Obama now has with his church affiliation.

And this may get you attention:

In a recent poll 56% of voters said "Wright's comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats".

"White voters, by a 46% to 33% margin, say that Obama should leave the Church."

"The poll also finds that Obama's favorability rating fell to 47%, down five points from last Thursday".

You see there is another problem besides Black voters, who are outnumbered in the percentages of who votes, and it is White voters who represent the majority of the vote.


[ Parent ]
School yourself before you speak for black folk. (0.00 / 0)
First, you need to visit a few black blogs--I would suggest Jack and Jill Politics--and school yourself on how blacks are feeling about this issue before you make claims about them going to the polls like sheep to vote for any Democratic candidate.  

Second, in a close election, every vote counts.  Al Gore lost FL by 500+ votes.  Don't tell me the black vote doesn't count.

And don't lecture me about patriotism.  What is patriotic about letting thousands of people die in New Orleans because they were black and poor?  What have blacks got to be patriotic about?


[ Parent ]
Blogs (0.00 / 0)
Back or White don't necessarily speak for the masses. Just because some angry Black bloggers may advocate staying home if Obama does not win does not mean that the majority of Blacks will. They won't stay home anymore that the majority of them agree with Wright.

You have a very narrow argument which I don't agree with and it is based solely on racial politics which is going backward not forward. You are embracing the politics of Wright which is Black against White. And it sounds like that is what the angry Black bloggers are embracing. If that is the case I want nothing to do with them.

But if you want to play that game then remember White voters may not vote for Obama now as the poll numbers I showed say.

If you want to make this about 'race' which is what you are definitely doing then that argument works both ways. The question would then be which color of people represents the most votes - Black or White? The answer to that is simple.

That said you are going down the wrong path and so are those who argue the same as you do.


[ Parent ]
He has your vote (4.00 / 1)
In a general election he will need the vote of people who are not like you at all.  And Rasmussen has a very disturbing statistic.. Revernd Wright has a favorable rating of 8% (Dick Cheney does better) 56% ....yes 56% of those polled say the Reverend's comments on video make them less likely to vote for Obama.  That's a really big number....

And while "... it ain't illegal to be angry." that is exactly antithetical to how Barack Obama presents himself and his appeal to white voters.  

Explaining it doesn't help him win those voters in a general election.  Defending them doesn't help him win those votes either....nor does demanding that America understand it better help him win those voters in November....

The more time,enrgy and attention he and his campaign have to spend paying attention to the anger in the black community...as justified as that anger is... and it is justified...the less it helps his election prospects in November.  Barack Obama is supposed to represent transcending race to white Americans not making them look at it hard in the face.

Frankly I am despondent about his November prospects.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


Depends... (4.00 / 4)
So far, Obama has navigated the minefield of race, history, and class brilliantly. If he doesn't chicken out now he can turn all this into a positive by making it the springboard for a discussion of American realities. His supporters say they really want change. If that's more than a pose, they will thank him for transcending the racial divisions that have kept the kleptocracy in power for so many generations, and focusing on just what it is that arouses such deep and lasting anger, and how we -- yes we can -- finally begin to heal it through economic justice and simple fairness for every American.

It's not his style to rant against the incredible hypocrisy of the Right, much as I'd like to hear him do it. So it's up to the rest of us to shift attention back to the hate spewed 24/7 by the likes of Limbaugh, OReally, Dobson, Robertson, Hagee, and the neocons against America and all but a tiny minority of its people. Their psycho god regularly brings down plague and disaster on America for its sins, and the obsessive goal of the neocons is to drown the government -- the American Government -- in a bathtub. So let's not yet again cede the "patriotism" mantle to the raving loonie right that has been out to destroy this nation for generations. Back Obama as he attempts to repair the wounds that are bleeding this country dry.


[ Parent ]
I Agree 100% (4.00 / 2)
This is actually a golden opportunity for Obama to put some meat on the bones of his promises, as far as I'm concerned.

And, no, I am not rooting for him to fail.  I hope he succeeds brilliantly.

But folks have got to understand that being tested like this is a good thing.  Real, deep, significant change is not going to be accomplished by--or even tangetially with the likes of someone who can't pass such a test.

What was so utterly galling about John Kerry in 2004 was that 30 years earlier he had clearly been such a person--heck, even his first decade in the Senate he was such a person--and it was so pathetic just seeing him wimper and equivocate.

Obama, OTOH, seems to be miles ahead of Kerry, just by standing up to give this speech.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The old Kerry... (4.00 / 2)
... would have been a much better candidate. I remember in 2004 watching the documentary about Kerry, Going Upriver, and seeing him speak stridently and passionately against the Vietnam war, and thinking to myself: if voters saw THIS guy, I bet they'd like him a whole lot more.

Unfortunately, that guy never made an appearance.


[ Parent ]
Avoidng the subject isn't handling it brilliantly. (4.00 / 1)
Briilaintly would be to talk about it in such a way that engages people to chang their minds rather than reinforce there is something that needs to be hidden away. This is where fundamentally many who support him don't seem to get someone like me who doesn't. I don't believe hidding produces a better result other than electoral victory. But that to me is a pyrrihic win if the result is that race and other issues are discussed less and dealt with less because "you know, we got to get him in there." Uh, not if he ain't going to do anything to help my community out we don't.

[ Parent ]
sure, but..... (0.00 / 0)
This is all great stuff and I agree wholeheartedly.

But it has nothing to do with whether or not the Wright association seriously hurts Obama's chances of being elected in the fall. I know that's not the point of this post, but as someone who's given up on trying to choose between Obama and Clinton on policy/personality, electability is really the only thing I care about.

My hunch is it hurts him, badly, perhaps fatally, but I guess there's no way to know until it happens. And, for the most part, it's apparently not really something that people want to discuss around here.

I look forward to Obama's speech tomorrow. I hope he knocks it out of the park. But if he's the nominee, we're still going to have to contend with those videos in the fall, and I just don't see how they're not going to be a big, big problem.


Yup (0.00 / 0)
What looked like an un-losable election a few months ago is now looking virtually unwinnable. Obama is in free fall, and this Wright stuff, along with Michelle Obama's remarks and the Farrakhan connection, will doom him. He's not capable of leading a ticket. He can't win.

However, if Hillary manages to pull it out, we exchange one set of problems for another. The perception among a significant number of black voters will be that she stole the nomination from Obama; they probably won't defect to McCain en masse, but turnout may be depressed. Plus, if she wins, that means we probably don't have a nominee until August.

There are only two ways that I can see out of this. One is a Hillary-Obama ticket, but let's just say the chances of that look slim. Another: a brokered convention nominating someone else entirely, probably Al Gore. Also unlikely, I would imagine.

We should probably start preparing ourselves psychologically for President McCain.


[ Parent ]
Oh bullshit (4.00 / 1)
If the Dems can't handle this they don't deserve to win. This is nothing compared to Bush/McCain's negatives. But if we get enough handwringing and propaganda (there is no "Farrakhan conncection", for example), like this from supposed leftists, whining could indeed become reality. It's how the special liberal genius for losing functions.

[ Parent ]
Not quite (0.00 / 0)
The liberal genius for losing is in nominating terrible candidates. Look for Obama to join the club with Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry.

And there IS a connection between Obama's church and Farrakhan, that's a matter of fact. If McCain went to a church that had honored David Duke, we'd be raising holy hell and rightly so.


[ Parent ]
McCain's new best friends (4.00 / 1)
on the radical right certainly were on the same side as David Duke, and good folks like Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympics and abortion clinic bomber, among others. The "connection" there is just as valid as the tortured twisting you do to make one between Obama and Farrakhan. Unfortunately, we would not be raising holy hell. If we did raise holy hell, Bush would not be president.

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
Maybe we should indeed be raising more hell about the violent extremists on the right and their ties to mainstream GOP politicians. But the point is: when John Ashcroft's ties to neo-confederates and white supremacists are made known, we (if not the Democratic Party or the corporate press) view it as morally atrocious.

I am NOT saying that Rev. Wright is the equivalent of the Council of Conservative Citizens. BUT his church did in fact choose to honor - in preposterously laudatory terms ("truly epitomized greatness") - a notorious anti-Semite and all around religious whackjob extremist.

If the term "connection" is problematic, fine, I withdraw it. Is Obama friends with Farrakhan? No. Does he agree with Farrakhan's prejudiced views? No. But Wright and Wright's church have been a major part of Obama's life, one assumes because he liked what they had to say. And Wright and his church were driven by their beliefs and principles to bestow an honor on Louis Farrakhan. So the relevant "connection" isn't between Obama and Farrakhan, it's between Obama and Wright, and part of the reason that is problematic is because Wright is the kind of person who thinks Louis Farrakhan is a great man.  


[ Parent ]
Pastor Wright (0.00 / 0)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Here's a link to a couple of videos of members at Obama's church.  One is actally another Pastor who belongs there, and the other is the new leader at the church, Rev. Otis Moss.   These are something we aren't likely to see in the mainstream media...


I'm Not Offended (0.00 / 0)
by Wright, either.  There probably is a lot of truth in what he says.  But the point is that Obama's close association with him gives Republican Swift Boaters grounds to turn Obama into a closet Malcolm X in the publics' mind by November.  What you or I think about Wright is irrelevant.

Exactly (0.00 / 0)
I can't believe more people aren't understanding this. The nomination isn't settled yet. If and when Obama does become the nominee, that's when our attention should be turned toward a full-throated defense of him. Right now, it would behoove the party to seriously reflect on Obama's weaknesses and consider the possibility that he's not the guy.

I'm not holding my breath, though. The party activists, especially the netroots, have not been well-acquitted during this campaign.


[ Parent ]
Also (0.00 / 0)
The only possible way Obama can survive this is to DISTANCE himself from Rev. Wright. The absolute worst way to defend Obama on this front is for liberals to defend Rev. "God Damn the USA" Wright. Obama himself obviously knows this: notice that he didn't defend the comments, and explicitly condemned them.

His problem is going to be that selective condemnation of Wright's remarks isn't likely to be enough. He either repudiates the man wholesale or has him as a virtual running mate. It's an unpleasant reality but reality usually is.


[ Parent ]
What you're telling us (4.00 / 2)
is, First, that the swiftboating of Kerry happened because the wingnuts found something real? If that's what you think, I have to wonder what you're doing on this board.

Second, you're suggesting that if Obama is not nominated, the wingnuts will just shut up and play nice. Ever hear of Vince Foster? The Blue Dress? Even if the Dems panicked and chose somebody else, be it Gore or Edwards or Clark or anybody else, the swiftboating would go on undeterred by reality. That you would suggest otherwise makes me wonder about your real agenda.


[ Parent ]
I think you're missing the point (0.00 / 0)
Obviously, the GOP is going to sling mud no matter who we nominate. I can't imagine anyone would deny that. But some attacks work better than others. In my opinion, smears about Whitewater or Al Gore inventing the internet or whatever would be minimally harmful this election cycle.

But if they can successfully paint Obama as a black nationalist radical, they WILL win; America will not elect somebody who is generally perceived that way. We tend to think the economy issue will bail us out no matter what, but look for the GOP to use Affirmative Action as a club on that front, and play off white working-class resentment of blacks (which is by no means present only among Republican voters).

That the GOP was able to Swift-boat Kerry out of whole cloth does not bode well for Obama, because their smears this time out will have the advantage of being true in a strict sense. They had to make up lies about Kerry. With Obama, all they will have to do is run commercials quoting Rev. Wright - "God Damn America" - and Michelle Obama ("for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country").  


[ Parent ]
You really don't see the ludicrousness (0.00 / 0)
of Obama being the helpless victim of being painted as a "black nationalist radical"? If this crap had started a few days before the election it might have had an effect. As it is, it presents an opportunity for him to exercise his exceptional campaigning powers to go deeper into what "change" really has to mean. If he's as good a politician as I think he is, he'll neutralize this at worst or turn it into gold at best.

Stop already with the bogus concern trolling.


[ Parent ]
No subject (0.00 / 0)
For one thing, could you please cut the silly accusations of being a "concern troll"? I've been signed up at this blog for some time; you can read through my comments to see that I am not some idiot pretending to be a Democrat, or if I am, boy am I deep cover.

I'm not a big fan of Obama, but I want desperately for a Democrat to take the White House in the fall. Part of the reason I support Obama's opponent is simply because I don't think he's likely to do so. I oppose Obama now, during the primaries, for the same reason I opposed the nomination of John Kerry.

Why is it so hard for Obama supporters to wrap their heads around the possibility that someone might have a good-faith critique of Obama? Why does anyone who questions Obama have to be a "concern troll"? The nominating process is for vetting candidates.

You have faith that Obama will somehow be able to turn this thing into an advantage. Fine. You'll have to excuse those of us who don't have this blind faith.


[ Parent ]
Here's the way I look at it (4.00 / 1)
  If the Republicans were really all that confident about facing Obama in the general, they would have held their fire on the Wright tapes until after he'd sewn up the nomination, and there was no turning back for the Democrats.

But instead, they brought them out NOW. At a point of time when there's still residual doubt about who's going to get the Democratic nomination. Combine this with Rush Limbaugh urging Republicans to vote for Hillary in the primaries, and it's pretty obvious that the Republicans (through their front group, Fox News) are trying to influence the Dem primary with all their might -- and not in a way that leaves Obama as the nominee.

Actions speak louder than words. Wright or no Wright, it's pretty clear the Republicans are desperately trying to avoid an Obama-McCain matchup.

 If they really preferred to face Obama, they'd sit quietly by and let him clinch the nomination before revving up the slime machine. But that's not what they're doing.

 And I'm unconvinced anyway that Hillary's going to be so great against McCain. She's fawned over him too much to be credible if/when she "attacks" him in the general. It'll be the ultimate DLC "I'm not QUITE as bad the Republican" campaign -- and a sure recipe for defeat.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
Offended? Representing? (0.00 / 0)
I think it is important to hear all points of view and all speech including hate speech should be protected and aired publicly. That said, it doesn't mean you can say something and then run away and have no responsibility to it.

What i gathered from this post is that what Wright said wasn't at all wrong or bad. Seems like a slippery position.

Do any Obama supporters feeling slightly uncomfortable with the pastors speech? If one was to use the same standards that have been applied to other people, there should be some concern...somewhere.

I could never imagine myself being a part of a church with a pastor that was so angry, but maybe people like going to church and getting mad as hell. Seems contrary to the point...but who am i to judge.

Why, every election cycle rolls around and some right wing nut rolls out a new ANTI GAY something or other to get out the wing nuts to vote republican. Gays are THE whipping boy in every election. So, I guess its not a huge jump to race...might as well bring things down even lower then they can go.

I guess for me, i don't care how angry or vicious or nasty or racist or whatever you want to call the pastor is or if he retires etc. etc. He can say what he wants and if people want to listen to that screaming it is their choice.

It is disturbing that Obama thinks nothing of his connection with this pastor, but it does show he is in deep with the church and lost sense of how this can be perceived outside of the church.

I don't think Obama has run such a positive campaign. I think alot of people have not really challenged his claims on that, but apparently we all see things differently.

Apparently, sexism is no big deal to some people...

The thing is, discrimination of any kind is plain bad and wrong. The oppression game is losing argument. If you are a member of any oppressed or discriminated group you understand the difficulties and the pain of experiencing hate first hand.

I long to go an election cycle where i didn't have to fight for the itty bitty civil rights i was lucky enough to have been granted by the powers that be.

It would be nice not to be fired for being gay, to be able to adopt children, share insurance, and yes, get married.

I guess i should also ignore the ANTI GAY/Former Gay singer that toured for OBAMA.  


What church? (0.00 / 0)
I could never imagine myself being a part of a church with a pastor that was so angry, but maybe people like going to church and getting mad as hell. Seems contrary to the point...but who am i to judge.

Unitarian, apparently.


[ Parent ]
"Angry" (4.00 / 7)
Maybe it's years of living in a mostly black neighborhood in Brooklyn, but Wright doesn't seem particularly "angry" to me, at least not to the degree that a lot of people seem to take it. I mean, obviously he's not happy with the state of the world in many ways, and he has some less than palatable ideas on AIDS and 9/11, but I don't think he's not engaging in "hate speech" or blaming the white devil.

I can't help wondering if most people are reacting primarily to his (distinctly African-American) rhetorical style. I wonder if it was a white man, delivering the same message in measured, "serious" tones, if he'd still be accused of being hateful and dangerous, or just a little off. (Obviously, I suspect not).

I also suspect that inside most white people, there is a deep fear of black revolt, a kind of archetypal Nat Turner fear, that Wright reminds them of. Part of Obama's appeal for white folks is that he's a black man who is not overtly angry or scary, and so validates their desperate desire for a "post-racial"/color-blind/guilt-free America.

Which is why I think the Wright issue is potentially very difficult for Obama. A lot of people were secretly hoping that despite his dark skin, he agreed with white people that black people generally shouldn't be too upset about racial issues in America.


BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! (0.00 / 0)

We Have A Winner!

Which is why I think the Wright issue is potentially very difficult for Obama. A lot of people were secretly hoping that despite his dark skin, he agreed with white people that black people generally shouldn't be too upset about racial issues in America.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
as Paul says, bingo! (0.00 / 0)
One thing that this whole episode makes clear is how (almost) impossible it is to speak truth to power, and be taken seriously. This is particularly true if one wants to get elected to high office.

There's quite a bit in what Wright says that is ludicrous and over the top, and verging a bit too close to tin-foil hat territory. Yet there's an awful lot there that is unobjectionable - and true, or at least partly true. Attacks on 9/11 are the chickens coming home to roost? What's so horrible or unamerican about that? Of course the actual terrorists are to blame for the events of that day, but it's hardly a stretch to say that unjust US policies have not had the effect of radicalizing a generation or two of Muslims around the world. There's a reason they attacked the US and not Norway.

The comparisons drawn between the Israelites under Rome and the Black experience in the US is also hardly shocking. In fact, they're old hat. Really, that people would find the comparisons objectionable is itself objectionable. Negro spirituals anyone? Let my people go? I was raised in the Catholic Church, and even the Gospel I got growing up stressed Jesus' concern for justice, for the downtrodden, for the leper and Pharisee (the outcasts). The "Prosperity Gospel" it was not.

As the MSM has fully accommodated itself to right-wing memes, any genuine, truthful criticism of the US its many unjust, rapacious, truly evil policies and practices is lambasted as as unAmerican. Americans have a pathological need to see themselves and their country as "good."

And as you indicate, the problem is exponentially trickier for an African American running for office. Chalmers Johnson, a white professor (emeritus?) at UC San Diego and formerly Berkeley, could write a book called "Blowback" detailing how US policies have come back to bite us on the ass. If an African American makes the same points, he or she is an angry black fomenting an uprising.

Which makes this such a dire and delicate situation for Obama. I support Hillary, and voted for her, but I want a DEM in the White House come next January.

 


[ Parent ]
Sorry, but . . . (0.00 / 0)
. . . it becomes racist when you blacks do/are . . ., whites do/are . . ., Asians, etc . . .  Exploitation and oppression occurs against some people of all races, colors, ages, etc., and it is insidious and destructive.  While it is understandable that people might react as Wright has, it does not make it any less racist.

My ancestry is Jewish, Isish Catholic, Quaker, Huguenot, etc. all of which have been oppressed and disadvantaged at times and places in this country and around the world.  But they were oppressed by all, X, Y, or Z's!

It is embarassingly un-progressive to try to justify racist attitudes or behaviors.  With a Harvard (Obama), Yale (Clinton), or Princeton (me) degree and the accesses to opportunities that they represent, it would be much harder to justify the perpetuation of racist values.


Dropped a word (0.00 / 0)
". . . it becomes racist when you" + say . . .

USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox