This doesn't matter (0.00 / 0)

She didn't push for impeachment, and she didn't spend every waking hour trying to end the war. So partisan liberals (other than me, and I'm sure a few others) will never see her as anything other than a compromising, centrist sell-out.
God forbid anyone take note of the fact that she has a majority to protect. Or the fact that all the pushing and shoving in the world would never make it past Bush's veto pen. Apparently, if you are a high-profile politician and you don't purposely destroy your own career and take everyone down with you, then you aren't worthy of praise or respect.

She is my representative, I've voted for her before and I will continue to vote for her.

(Also, I work on the torch route here in SF, so I may post a diary later today if I witness anything noteworthy going down)

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:58:53 AM CDT

this is nice as are the protests, but lets get real (0.00 / 0)

protesting the torch relay or protesting the Olympics has some short term symbolic value, but no real meaning or persistent value unless people like Pelosi and protest leaders expand the protests from the streets to legislative action in Congress. The only thing that will change internal Chinese policy is to close down commerce with that country. Pelosi and Hillary wants to boycott the opening ceremonies? who cares! How about Pelosi and HRC propose incremental year on year tariffs on imports in China until we reach 100% tariffs or until China hold open elections and dismantle the great internet firewall.

I'd like to also address a point some critics of these protests make, which is the US has a lot of nerve criticizing China while we are in Iraq. Not only is this line of argument dumb, since the people who speak out against Chinese abuses also speak out against American abuses of power, it is not serious in purpose. If such critics are serious they should call for boycotts of US products and tourism. Which I'm pretty sure anti-war advocates would happily accept as support in the fight to end the Iraq debacle. In short I wish Chinese sympathizers would shut up, and politicians who support the Olympic protests would walk the walk instead of just talk the talk.

Of course HRC Pelosi et al actually don't give a crap about the very serious problem that is China. So just shut up.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:12:01 AM CDT

Closing down commerce with China? (0.00 / 0)

Get real.  The US doesn't manufacture anything any more, and even goods labeled "made in USA" are filled with Chinese parts.  That 10% tariff would correspond to a nearly 10% price increase for everything Americans buy.  There isn't another country large enough to build all our cheap crap for us if we cut off China.  Our leverage is limited, they have us by the balls.

And the hypocrisy is amazing.  Like you, I'm appalled by Chinese treatment of Tibetans, but we're the country of Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, raining down bombs on Iraqi children, and paying for Israel to rain down bombs on Palestinian children.  Isn't the rest of the world justified in imposing tariffs on our goods until we submit?

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by: Joe Buck @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:27:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

They Certainly Are! (0.00 / 0)

Isn't the rest of the world justified in imposing tariffs on our goods until we submit?

Economic sanctions do make a lot of sense all around in the abstract.  The problem is that the proper implementation to make them truly effetive is vastly under-developed.

But, then, war hasn't exactly proved itself very effective, either, now has it?

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:08:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Isn't the rest of the world justified in imposing tariffs on our goods until we submit? (0.00 / 0)

Yeah, I said as much, what's the problem?

and just because we have a weak hand doesn't mean we should play a weaker one. silly statements of support for protests like this is just weakness.

also, let me add, I spoke of phasing in tariffs, that would create incentive and time for manufacturing to come back to the US. did you even read my comment?

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 16:37:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe... (0.00 / 0)

Maybe if we nicely ask them to give us our $1.5 trillion dollars back and stop aiming warheads at Taiwan we can all go have tea and crumpets with the Dalia Lama?

China is a nuclear armed superpower - and it is the most dangerous kind of superpower, a rising superpower. Historically, no nation or empire has risen to global prominence without fighting a major war. And China is currently involved in territorial disputes with India, Russia, Taiwan (thus the US), and Japan, giving it ample opportunities to flex is rapidly growing military might. So, maybe a nuanced and cautious policy towards China isn't entirely unwarranted.

Or we could do as you suggest: just hike up tariffs and stifle trade. That worked great in the 1930's. Good timing, too, since we are on the verge of a major economic slowdown. Nothing speeds up the economy like dampening trade with one of our most significant trading partners. And I'm sure the Chinese people and government would be thrilled by the damage that would do to their economy - thereby speeding up reform and enhancing human rights. Or not.  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:34:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

oh no the great trade gods are going to kill us (0.00 / 0)

fear fear, everyone run in fear, we can't limit trade.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 16:46:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fear? (0.00 / 0)

Common sense.  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 17:25:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

In Case You Hadn't Noticed (0.00 / 0)

They are all flawed.  But your claim

Of course HRC Pelosi et al actually don't give a crap about the very serious problem that is China. So just shut up.

is not supported by facts.  Nor is the claim that she is a "centrist."  Her Progressive Punch score is  94.24-- 48 out of 431.

Pelosi has a long history of human righs advocacy, far beyond what is called for by outside forces.  I agree that taking impeachment off the table was a terrible move.  I have written about how I think this should have been handled, given the uniform, and one can only imagine, vitriolic oppositon that would follow from the media--and that is basically to engage in an impeachment inquiry, but with no threat of removal from office--unless there is obstruction. So, I clearly think that much more could have and should have been done.

Now, I certainly agree that the tariff action you suggest would be a good idea.  But it involves complications--such as the charges of US hypocrisy (which is certainly valid vis-a-vis the Bush Hegemony)--that have to be addressed first if it is to have a net positive effect.  So what we really need to be addressing is the need to devlop a long-term, integrated progressive agenda and strategy to get it implemented.  THAT is where I would focus my critical attention.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:04:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sure - no disagreement (0.00 / 0)

my point is going on tv to support protests like this is silly and pointless. and HRC score card doesn't mean anything. I've seen lots of various "score cards" around that are constantly giving undeserving dems favorable scores. basically HRC going on TV calling on the president to boycott the opening is just silly pander to sunday after noon democrats.

I'm not saying fiscal punishment of China is easy, i know its hard, which is why even discussing it would be courage. but the topic is totally taboo right now. amazing - you can't even suggest tariffing china without howls from the gallery.  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 16:43:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe I am out of line thinking this .. (0.00 / 0)

but as the other comment stated .. her "Impeachment is off the table" remark was really stupid .. remember when Feingold wanted to introduce the censure resolution(back when the Rethugs still controlled things I believe)? .. and there was a poll out around that time .. and even then .. 33% of those polled favored impeachment ... imagine how much higher those numbers would have gone had she let Conyers hold hearings?  but ... my main point is .. as Speaker(and maybe this is taboo because we aren't Republicans) .. sometimes I feel that she needs to act a little like a dictator .. to keep the caucus in line on certain votes .. to present a more unified front against the Rethugs .. she lets Hoyer & Rahm get away with undermining her(especially on that immigration stuff)

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:13:05 AM CDT

Christine Pelosi (0.00 / 0)

is not the CDP chair.  She's the chair of the Platform Committee.  While the platform did include some very progressive planks, it's not clear what that means in the long-term (the Rules Committee is trying to put some teeth into it, by trying to force candidates under the CDP banner to actually read it).  

Just for the record.

Insert shameless blog promotion here.

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by: dday @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:36:17 PM CDT

Sorry, Yes... (0.00 / 0)

I'm writting hurredly under duress today. Or, not really duress, it's just that I'm at work using computers from the late Jurriasic.  One computer takes forever to load Open Left.  The other has a screen that goes black whenever it's least convenient.

So, thought gets fragmented. And brain-farts that would otherwise be caught before "preview" turns to "save" are instead immortalized.

In fact, this comment almost got added to a comment in a completely different diary.  That's just how it is this week.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 15:26:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]