Democrats Should Not Argue Over Experience

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 18:30


This is a dangerous path for Democrats to follow:

Barack Obama has long argued that he has shown better foreign policy judgment than his remaining presidential rivals, specifically in opposing the Iraq war.

But at a fund-raiser in San Francisco over the weekend, he reportedly made the case that he has more foreign policy knowledge and understanding as well -- a claim getting a lot of blowback from presumptive Republican nominee John McCain and Democratic contender Hillary Clinton.

According to an account posted online on The Huffington Post, Obama was answering a question about what he would look for in a running mate if he wins the nomination. "I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on," he replied. "I think a lot of people assume that might be some kind of military thing to make me look more commander-in-chief-like. Ironically, this is an area -- foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."

Clinton took exception when asked about the comment while making the rounds of the morning TV shows in advance of the long-awaited testimony today by General David Petraeus, the top US commander in Iraq, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the top US diplomat.

She laughed, actually, before responding on Fox News. "Well I'm somewhat shocked by that since I don't see any evidence of it," she said. "This is kind of hard to square with his failure to ever have a single policy hearing on the only responsibility he was given, chairing the European and NATO subcommittee the foreign relations committee.

"I don't know," she continued. "I'm speechless. Making an assertion like that belies the facts and the record."

I won't engage this debate on its merits, because quite frankly I don't think it has any merits. Democrats should not engage in value-neutral and non-ideological arguments over qualifications to be President, including foreign policy experience, foreign policy knowledge, and the number of times someone has held a committee hearing. Obama in particular needs to avoid this line of argumentation, because for a long time he had it right when he emphasized foreign policy judgment. This is because the amount of time someone has spent dealing with or studying foreign policy does not, in and of itself, make someone better at foreign policy.

During the two Supreme Court nomination fights under Bush, Roberts and Alito, the Republican / conservative strategy was the same: emphasize how the extensive experience of Roberts and Alito made them qualified to serve on the Supreme Court, in and of itself, rather than any views they might actually hold on interpreting the Constitution. They put forth non-ideological arguments over Supreme Court qualifications, and two conservative judges breezed through the nomination process as a result.

If Democrats openly engage in the same sort of non-ideological arguments over qualifications to become President, then we could see another conservative, John McCain, breeze through an election to become President no matter what extreme foreign policy positions he may hold. The point of Presidential "qualifications" should not be how long someone has spent on a topic such as foreign policy, but rather the views that candidate holds on foreign policy. If experience was the criterion, then people like Dick Cheney should be considered eminently "qualified" to be President, no matter how bad he would continue to screw up the country.

In a political environment that strongly favors progressive and center-left viewpoints, when Democrats make arguments about who would be a better President, those arguments should be based in terms of policy and ideology, not the number of lines on a resume. Otherwise, we will fail to capitalize on the highly favorable electoral situation we face, as we fail to draw clear distinctions between ourselves and our Republican opponents.  

Chris Bowers :: Democrats Should Not Argue Over Experience

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that would be great... (0.00 / 0)
it would also be great if Hillary would stop attacking Obama from the right.

I doubt the candidates will head your advice. Obama might. But Hillary won't. Not considering that her attacks on Obama's experience have been said to be some of her only effective ones. I don't think we'll see a stop to this any time soon.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


No, it wouldn't be great (0.00 / 0)
Qualifications count.  They're far from the be-all and the end-all, but to ban talk of qualifications just strikes me as arbitrary to the point of being downright bizarre.  It's something people talk about and not infrequently vote on, partially because it's more or less quantifiable.

[ Parent ]
Something that people talk about... (0.00 / 0)
is not the same as something people vote on.  When it comes to Republicans and Democrats, so called qualifications tend to matter when your candidate has lots of time in Washington, and tend not to matter when your candidate is a governor or relatively new to Washington or politics.  The same dynamics hold within parties during primaries.  Have large swaths of either party refused to support their own candidate based on qualifications?  Not once in history, that I can recall.  
That's why we never elected President Byrd, Thurmond or Cheney, it's why Biden, Dodd and Richardson didn't make much headway in the Democratic nomination process, and why Bush ran the tables on McCain in 2000. Sometimes the person with the best resume wins, but that doesn't mean that its ever for that reason.

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
Edwards (0.00 / 0)
didn't have much of a resume and the general public didn't support him. Of course he talked straight instead of being a double talker who whenever possible avoids answering tough questions so as to not reveal themselves.

[ Parent ]
I'd agree... (0.00 / 0)
if you were talking about real qualifications. In McCain's case the qualification is being old and having been consistently wrong about dozens of foreign policy blunders over the past few decades.

In Clinton's case, the 'experience' she is bragging about is having been the first lady and having lived in the White House. Beyond that, it's not clear that she' been actively making decisions much longer than Obama.

So if the 'qualifications' are real, go ahead and tout them. If they are just a conservative talking point being used to harm the Democratic front-runner (or being used to get a nut-case on the SCOTUS), then keep them to yourself.

Like Chris said its about proven "judgement," not just about "how long someone has been around Washington."

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
I Agree (0.00 / 0)
Qualifications do count.

And to say something that is 'subjective' as in judgment is OK to talk about but that to not hold meetings in an important committee is not OK to talk about strikes me as a bit bizarre. The topic of to hold or not to hold meetings is completely objective and quantifiable and voters will take that into consideration.

It's a bit odd to hold someone like Clinton politically accountable for a vote and ignore the purpose of that vote backed by a speech as to the purpose of that vote and then say that being a committee chairman who avoids their duty is not accountable. It just does not add up.


[ Parent ]
There is a minimal threshhold of experience (0.00 / 0)
Zero is not good--witness Jesse Ventura.  Any candidate for Pres has to be able to reassure the voters that s/he has the minimal knowledge and experience needed to be the leader of a country the size and scope of the US.  That does need to be talked about.

But beyond that, Obama's initial take is right--it isn't experience but the ability to learn from the experiences you have had.  It is more importantly judgment and temperament.  Colin Powell and others are right to argue that the best evidence of Obama's leadership qualities is the campaign he has put together and headed.  It is tight and well organized, particularly as compared to Hillary's.  They figured out the landscape and what, given Obama's strengths, they needed to do to win, and then executed.  He has shown very good judgment, equanimity and the ability to learn quickly and to adapt.  These qualities show that he has real leadership abilities.  Put them together with his rhetorical abilities and he is a once-in-a-generation figure.  

Just focusing on ideology and policy is NOT the way to win elections; but experience isn't the sum total of leadership, and that's what he has to emphasize.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
No, I don' t agree (0.00 / 0)
And I'll give you a couple of reasons I don't.

The first, is that unless you have some good evidence that being a high-level politician (Rep., Governor, Cabinet member or higher) is unlike virtually every other form of human endeavor, the starting assumption should be that experience counts very much.

The second is from recent history: look at the way Bill Clinton was running the federal government and the White House in 1993, and then compare that to the way he was running it in 1999-2000.  He had that baby spinning like a top by the time he left, but there were quite a few stumbles getting there.

Just for clarification, I'm specifically arguing against your theory that the only part that counts is the part that gets you up to a minimal level, and asserting that more experience than minimal is better experience.  I'm not by any means arguing that experience is the be-all and end-all.  If one candidate shows clearly superior leadership, then "experience" gets left in the dust.

But it's somewhat quantifiable, and one good place to start from in evaluation.  I always ultimately choose based on my personal assessment of the candidates, but I have to watch and observe them a great deal before I feel that such an assessment is accurate.  Experience, and how the candidate appears to be able to use that experience, is ultimately just one of many submerged factors in that overall judgment, but it goes a fair bit to inform my initial stance, and it's something that's always in the back of my head when evaluating.  


[ Parent ]
Have read this several times (4.00 / 1)
"I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on," he replied. "I think a lot of people assume that might be some kind of military thing to make me look more commander-in-chief-like. Ironically, this is an area -- foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."

Seems to me he IS making the judgment argument. Now you can argue what he means by 'I know more' but he has to know 'something' to base his judgment on. Hillary's claims that she has seen no evidence of his superior judgment, Iraq cough Iraq, is laughable.


And the context, Chris, is exactly what you have been calling for... (0.00 / 0)
...a re-inforcing VP.

[ Parent ]
I was going to post the same quote (0.00 / 0)
Obama does not say he has more experience, he says  he understands the world better:

"I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain"
Seems like he's doing exactly what you say to do Chris. There is no experience claim in that.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
"Long-haired hippy people, (0.00 / 0)
no need apply"

Well the idea that someone must have presidential experience in order to be qualified to be president reminds me of the song lyrics that suggest that proper qualifications for the position are determined arbitrarily and with a great amount of bias.

Experience?!  NONE of the current candidates have the experience to be president----IF we are to take presidential experience as the measure.  Anyone who claims they have such experience loses a small measure of my respect with each admonition.

The fact is, those individuals who can bring to bear their life experiences on the national, political stage and translate these experiences into relevant and meaningful policy statements deserve my respect.  Neither Clinton nor McCain have demonstrated that ability; Obama has.  This is an experiential reality that really matters.


Oops... the proper quote is: (0.00 / 0)
"Long-haired hippy people need not apply"


[ Parent ]
Sorry (0.00 / 0)
That would be "long-haired freaky people."  Thank you.

[ Parent ]
LOL...You are right. Thanks! (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Earned Respect (0.00 / 1)
Which of these contributed to your respect for Obama?

association with Exelon -- elect. util. & nuke waste;
association with Rezko -- 11 dilapidated properties in district;
association with Auchi -- food for oil scams;
wife's pay raise after his election;
supported Bush's energy plan;
voted for Bush's Class Action Fairness (deprives legal recourse against large corps.);
denial of taking money from oil companies;
correction for Bush's tax relief still favors upper incomes;
neglect of European Subcommittee;
repeatedly voted for Patriot Act;
skipped out on Iran resolution vote;
encourage lenders to restructure mortgages (not government regulation);
"present" and "oops, wrong button."


[ Parent ]
Chris, I can not believe you said (0.00 / 0)
that Cheney could be dangerous as president.

1. Hasn't he been the acting president for the last 7 years, or at least the one making all of the Important decisions?

2. I agree entirely with old guy who listed Obama's achievements above, take off the blinkers folks, how can you say this guy is a vision of hope..., while ignoring his record, based upon 1 speech and coming out against Iraq in 2002, I want to know what he is going to do if elected, and S.Powers said he will say what he needs to say on Iraq, in order to get elected, then decide what to really do..., if he wins. (sorry I did not get exact quote)

3. I was for Edwards, but think the media picked the 2 corporatist candidates for us, how did that happen Chris?


Come the Presidential Election: (0.00 / 0)
Though, I support Hillary Clinton, I will be voting for whichever Democratic Candidate we nominate.

I despise the notion of denying residents of Florida and Michigan their vote in the primary.

I despise the attempt to cut this primary short.

I have developed a great distaste for the likes of Dean, Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Leahy, et al. for their involvement in the debacles.

Aside:  Four Friedman Units ago (May 2006), Pelosi took impeachment off the table.  Since then, through March 2008, there have been 1,700 U.S. and U.K. casualties (and tens of thousands of Iraqis).  Aw heck, whose counting anyway?
http://icasualties.org/oif/ is.

"War has no winners -- just survivors." -- motto at Bullis


[ Parent ]
You are conflating experience and capability (0.00 / 0)
Do you really think the ability to do a good job is irrelevant?  You can't be..it must be admitted that some people would do X better than other people.

And while I am as much an ideolgue as anyone ....I do think that having the right ideology makes for better outcomes...but the actual ability to execute something...legislation, a deal etc is a trait to be highly prized.

Looked at from that perspepctive...both ideology and execution Obama is wrong about himself.

Look at how he kept retreating on the Exelon legislation until there was nothing left...laughable voluntary enforcement...the very same laughable voluntary measures he's pushing in terms of mortgage refi's.  This kind of measure is doomed to failure and if anything is the kind of solution a DLC candiate would come up with. Which everyone in the left blogosphere seems to have put on the back shelf...that he's the more conservative one in the race.

The same with healthcare...something he's already compromised on...look at how badly he handled the meeting with John Edwards...his arrogance ( and he's got a lot of it) about himself got in the way.....but he's just as likely after he's invited the Republicans to help set the table...compromising on what else...the amount of the subsidies needed in his healthcare plan.  Well then there's nothing left to his plan and it's a failure upon signature.

Abilty to execute the right ideas and the right policies does matter...and in my estimation he doesn't meet that.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


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