A List of 50 Top Pundits Illustrates Conservative Hegemony In Action

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat May 10, 2008 at 14:50


For some time now, I've been writing about the Gramscian concept of "hegemony" and a "war of position"/"culture war" to control the cultural institutions that in turn shape our "common sense" understanding of things.  It's my contention that for the 30-40 years, extreme cultural conservatives have been waging a one-sided culture war of precisely this sort-a culture war to control cultural institutions.  And in response, moderates, liberals, even progrerssives have basically been asleep at the switch.  I've also argued that while all the extreme conservatives' plans have produced impressive institutional successes, the realworld results have been utterly disasterous, which puts us on the cusp of a potentially historic realigning election.

A large part of my disappointment with Barack Obama stems from his unwillingness to confront the conservative establishment.  But it's more than that: Obama is genuinely hostile to the notion of others engaging in such confrontation.  He insists that the problem is partisanship per se-on both sides. This simply is not so.  Logically, of course, it could be so, if the left had been fighting the same sort of well-coordinated culture war that the right is figthing.  But historically, this simply did not happen.

Comes now the British newspaper, The Telegraph to provide dramatic truth that the culture war has been one-sided-and to remind us of why Obama dares not tell the truth about this. The Telegraph has produced a list of  "the 50 most influential political pundits" who "help drive the national conversation and shape public opinion."

It is not a perfect list, by any means.  Any number of influential people have been left off the list, while some who are on it seem rather over-rated, even from the perspective of simply having influence for whatever reason.  Still, it seems generally accurate in terms of the distribution of influence across the political spectrum, and in that regard, it is quite telling.  Here is the list, without the accompanying explanations:

1. Karl Rove
2. Chris Matthews
3. Sean Hannity
4. Rush Limbaugh
5. John Harris And Jim Vandehei
6. Matt Drudge
7. Tim Russert
8. Jon Stewart
9. David Brooks
10. Mark Halperin
11. Stephen Colbert
12. Bill O'Reilly
13. Keith Olbermann
14. Chuck Todd
15. Bill Maher
16. Glenn Beck
17. Andrew Sullivan
18. Frank Luntz
19. Donna Brazile
20. Joe Klein
21. David Gergen
22. Dick Morris
23. Mike Allen
24. Laura Ingraham
25. Michael Savage
26. Arianna Huffington
27. Pat Buchanan
28. James Carville
29. Ron Fournier
30. Peggy Noonan
31. Juan Williams
32. William Kristol
33. Roland Martin
34. Howard Kurtz
35. Joe Trippi
36. Newt Gingrich
37. Eugene Robinson
38. Michael Barone
39. Dee Dee Myers
40. Tony Snow
41. Mark Shields
42. Bill Bennett
43. Paul Begala
44. Jeffrey Toobin
45. Fred Barnes
46. Mark Levin
47. JC Watts
48. Paul Krugman
49. Mary Matalin
50. Rachel Maddow

It's worth noting that three of the top four voices from the left side of the spectrum are comedians.  The fourth is a career sports commentator, whose show includes a fair amount of what can only be called "cultural fluff." Then again, perhaps that's all to the good, since the only other entries from the Democratic side of things in the top 20 are Donna Brazile and Joe Klein, taking up the last two slots.  This is indicative of how thoroughly liberal and progressive voices are excluded from positions of media influence.

Paul Rosenberg :: A List of 50 Top Pundits Illustrates Conservative Hegemony In Action
 
It's not till the second half of the list, at #26, that we get our first actual left-side intellectual-Arianna Huffington.  Huffington, of course, would not even be on the list, were it not for her rise to prominance on the conservative side, before the shock of seeing the actual fruits of Newt's revolution helped open her eyes.

There is not another left-side intellectual until Paul Krugman at #48, and Krugman, too, is only accidentally on the list: the Times hired him primarily to write about globalized, neoliberal economic matters from less of a starry-eyed fannish perspective than Tom Friedman.  But then a band of pathological liars took over the government, and Krugman's professorial attention to stuborn facts swiftly re-sorted him to the extreme left of the nation's op-ed pages.  (See, for example, his book, Fuzzy Math: The Essential Guide to the Bush Tax Plan, about the outrageous snow job of Bush's massive, budget-busting 2001 tax cut.)

Close behind Huffington, at #28, we get James Carville, who plays a caricature of himself.  (His more sober side-kick, Paul Begala clocks in at #43.)

In short, it's almost as if the Telegraph were preparing my lecture notes for me.

To get a more detailed feel for what I'm arguing, let's take a closer look at the top of their list, and see where these people came from, and how they got where they are:

1. Karl Rove.  Not just a career partisan operative, but a known criminal, whose fancy footwork allowed him to escape prosecution in Plamegate.  How many perjurers get a timely heads up to change their stories-and are allowed to by supposedly "relentless" prosecutors?

2. Chris Matthews.  The epitome of the Versailles Dem, whose only purpose in life is to praise Republicans in a vain attempt to become their friend so as to not appear "partisan."

3. Sean Hannity. Raised from obscurity and groomed assiduously by Fox News.  He was directly hired by long-time top GOP operative, Roger Ailes.

4. Rush Limbaugh. The most direct and immediate beneficiary of Reagan FCC's repeal of the Fairness Doctrine.  With the Fairness Doctrine repealed, the way was opened for the rapid expansion of one-sided talk radio, completely unhinged from the reality principle.  And Rush was the poster boy.  Extensive documentation of his lying about a wide range of issues by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting served to blunt his early 1990s attempt to penetrate the highest levels of TV influence at the time, and his foray into sports broadcasting proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's no Keith Olberman, but somehow, here he is!

5. John Harris And Jim Vandehei. Co-founders of Politico.com, which, as Glenn Greenwald clearly documents in Great American Hypocrites is almost entirely dependent on The Drudge Report for driving its traffic, and thus making Harris and Vanderhei Top 5 material.  They came from the Washington Post, but their funding comes from Robert L. Allbritton, scion of a wealthy rightwing banking and media family. Harris co-authored The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008, which included the claim, "Matt Drudge rules our world."

6. Matt Drudge.  Speak of the Devil!  As if Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh weren't proof enough that peddling lies is no impediment to making the Top 10!  Drudge's early rise to prominance and influence was heavily dependent on repeated promotion by Rush Limbaugh.

7. Tim Russert.  More than anything, Russert seems to be a weathervane, clearly indicating how totally conservative forces dominate the elite Versailles media landscape.

8. Jon Stewart. Coming from Comedy Central, Stewart richly illustrates the continued relevance of the Court Jester tradition-the truth can only be spoken in jest.  The Jester, in turn, is an example of the Trickster archetype.  He is the exception that proves [tests the limits of] the rule.

9. David Brooks. A classic example of the ulta-partisan rightwing noise machine alumnus (Washington Times, Weekly Standard) given the highest profile platform in the supposedly "liberal" New York Times. Note the sharp contrast--#9 vs #48-between the rightwing hack, Brooks, and the Princeton economist Krugman, an isolated liberal voice also from the Times.

10. Mark Halperin.  Co-author, with John Harris, of The Way to Win, which included the claim, "Matt Drudge rules our world."  Halperin does not appear to be rightwing himself, but rather another weather-vane indicator of how the Versailles media is slanted.

One could go on through the entire list of 50, but the vast majority of them would be only minor variants of the categories already identified.  Krugman, at 48, stands out as that rare exception-someone who comes out of an academic discipline where ones ideas and assertions are vigorously challenged, and there are professional structures for mediating such challenges.  Almost everyone else seems to come from the circus/carney world, one way or another.

It's thus perfectly appropriate that comedians should so dominate the upper ranks of the liberal side. They are, as is fitting, open and direct about what they do.


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Rewrite (4.00 / 3)
You are correct, but I don't understand why you keep fixating on Obama with this argument. You could have said instead:

A large part of my disappointment with the Democrats stems from their unwillingness to confront the conservative establishment.  But it's more than that: the Democrats are genuinely hostile to the notion of others engaging in such confrontation.

Your focus on Obama makes it sound like he's the only person doing it (and you keep doing this over and over and over again). The truth is that almost every single Democrat agrees with him. Howard Dean showed up on Fox News recently, and other than brief comments, played nice with them and justified his appearance there.

It is true that we need to get full-throated progressive Democrats on the air to openly challenge the conservative ideology. But please stop this incessant focus on Obama.


Obama is running for the Presidency of the country and leadership of the party (do you understand?) (4.00 / 3)
He will lead both the country and the party. He is the face of the party. This is true , if for no othe reason, than he will set the agenda for both country and party

You write a very long post, but in essense, it reflects my fear over many of you- not only don't you require responsibility on the part of Obama, but you also have no understanding of from where such responsibility derives or grows.

Resorting to "other Democrats do it" isn't taking responsibility or leadership. The reason why Paul is focused on Obama is because Obama will set the agenda for the rest of the party. This is just fact and reality.  


[ Parent ]
I believe you are missing the point... (0.00 / 0)
He isn't saying Obama has done no wrong. His point is that by specifying an individual you are missing the larger trend. It isn't just Obama. Nothing is wrong with identifying Obama as one of the guilty, but it serves no purpose (and maybe hurts our dialog) to sit back and pretend the problem is solely Obama and that all we need to do to fix it is convince Obama to agree with us otherwise. By taking this approach we are failing to properly diagnose the problem and also failing to treat it properly. The problem is systematic, Obama in this instance represents a larger systematic problem. Fixing him doesn't fix the problem. He just happens to be in a high enough position to trick someone into thinking the problem is individual as opposed to systematic.  

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.

[ Parent ]
This Is Muddled! (0.00 / 0)
While it's certainly true that the Dems in general do a poor job of standing up to the Reps, and an even poorer job of standing up to the conservative media, they do not, in general, make it a matter of first principles to make kissy face with those who attack them.

Obama does.

And he does so based on the absurd premise that Dems have been too confrontational in the past.

I don't know any way to characterize this except as a significant departure in the wrong direction.

Before, they were wimpy.  Now, they are sworn wimps.

What once was an accidental condition has now become their very essence of being.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Nothing annoys myself more than wimpy Democrats, but I do not see Obama as one of them... (0.00 / 0)
Obviously the Clintons aren't wimpy either, but all too often they forsake their personaly beliefs or whats right in the interests of political "triangulation" and power consolidation. Obama is guilty of this to an extent as well.

John Kerry in my opinion opitimized a wimpy Democrats. I had to hold my nose as I voted for him. My first choice was Howard Dean, and Kerry wasn't even my 2nd or 3rd. Watching him sit back and take the Republican smears absolutely repulsed me. He allowed a bunch of chickenhawks who have never volunteered for any type of service in their entire lives, much less serving in the military. In fact, this is the elite class who looks down upon the military. This is part of the reason Bush thought Rummy and Wolfowitz et al knew better than our impartial Westpoint educated military commanders about the best way to address the Iraq problem. A problem so tangentional and insignificant that by attempting to address it Bush as practically neutered our nation both military and diplomatically in addressing the real foreign policy problems we face.

This is part of the reason I originally chose to support Obama over Edwards. I agreed much more with Edwards policy-wise, but I thought him too weak and uncharismatic to get his message across effectively. When I looked at Obama, I saw a progressive liberal Democrat who not only was a great orator, but extremely charismatic, intelligent, and most importantly different. This isn't my first election to vote for a Democrat, but it's the first election I've been inspired enough to Donate money for one (I've done internships on the local level in the past, for an incredibly candidate who will soon, probably futilely,  be challenging Saxby Chambliss (R, GA) for his senate seat.) I've suggested he attack Chambliss on his support for the Real ID act, which the GA legislature and most even Republican Georgians are vehemently opposed to.

I realize giving examples of other weak Democrats isn't a good argument that Obama is different, but I truly believe he is. He challenges them in a different way than we are used to, and so far it has appeared effective. Obviously, Obama buys into some of the old Washington ways of thinking, but as you so eloquently pointed out in your diary, this very well might be neccessary for us to move forward much in the way of the Newton/Einstein comparison.

The main reason I like Obama so much isn't because I agree with im on all positions. Its because he actually seems honest and with integrity. I really like the idea of dignitarianism, because I've often felt that way in my personal life. The worst thing is watching someone lose dignity. I've always felt personally that this is one of the most important things. I also believe a lot of our foreign policy "quagmires" we are currently facing could be alleviated if we were able to alleviate the indignity felt by many throughout the world, rightly or wrongly blamed on the U.S. and the West (globalization, ect.)

I've had a few drinks tonight so sorry for the tangents. Don't judge me too harshly on this post I prolly would have changed a few things were I thinking a bit more clearly ;)

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
My thoughts on electability... elaboration... (0.00 / 0)
ever since the jump I've thought Obama was the most electable Democrat. Conversely, I always thought Huckabee would have been the most electable GOP. I never bought into the idea that McCain would be our toughest opponent in Nov. True, the media loves him, but he simply isn't likable, charismatic, or good looking.

I wish elections didn't work that way but these things matter. In that sense, had Romney not been such an empty suit, I'd have given him better odds than McCain. Hillary's electibility I've had doubts about because of so much hate an vitriol for her from the right.

Edwards I saw as weak because he already lost, and despite his good looks, he lacks charisma. People want to vote for people who they like their personalities. Thats the reason Bush was elected, and its also the reason Kennedy defeated Nixon after everyone saw him on TV. He was just so much more handsome and likable.

I don't mean to sound vain, personally I don't think attractiveness tells you anything about how good a leader would be. But I do think charisma matters.

I know McCain and Obama are close in the polls now but I personally don't think McCain has a chance in hell. He isn't attractive, likable, smart, and all his positions are completely wrong. If Obama loses to McCain, I will be absolutely astounded. (Just for the record I believe Hillary or Edwards could have defeated him as well, I think McCain is a terribly weak candidate despite his media man-love)

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
I Think The Clintons Are Petulant (0.00 / 0)
They're not wimpy when they decide to fight.  But they're petulance is their bottom line, and you cn never tell which way they'll jump.  Bill, for example, should have sued ABC/Disney over "The Path to 9/11" for every last penny they own--and triple damages on top of that.

Kerry is particularly frustrating, because I think he has good instincts, it's just that he learned to deny them during the Clinton years.  He did really courageous stuff when he first got to the Senate in the 1980s, and he never even breathed a word of any of that in his campaign, when he could have made it a focal point, since much of it involved investigating terrorists and their assoicates--drug runners, money-launderers, etc.

You're right about Obama in one sense, and at one level.  He does stand his gound, and that is good.  But he doesn't fight for others--particularly progressives--and he does not fight back against general patterns of attack, instead inveighing against "partisanship," in much the same sort of diffuse way that Bush talks about fighting "terror."  Even as frustrating a figure as Harry Reid doesn't emasculate himself like that.  Which is not to say I think Reid would have been a better presidential candidate.

That's not my point at all.  I'm thinking way beyond winning this election.  I'm thinking about winning the culture war.  And Obama is a no-show for that.  He thinks he can be like Switzerland in WWI.  But he's so, so wrong. What he can be is Belgium.  If you know your WWI history, you'll know what I mean.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Culture War (0.00 / 0)
I'm thinking about winning the culture war.  And Obama is a no-show for that.

Actually, long before Obama began running for the president I'd become convinced the best way to win the culture war was simply to end it.  Diffusing the conflict is, for our side, the same as winning it.  (Largely this comes from reading David Brin.)

We'll see how this plays out, hopefully, but I don't think you are actually correct on this point.  Obama is all about promoting tolerance.  The fact he uses the Right as the primary example of those that need tolerance confuses, but I think is reasonable and is similar to my own thinking of how to approach the subject.  You can't start with hypocrisy, and those on the right often feel the lack of our tolerance as an example of hypocrisy.

I've said it many times before, but it is worth repeating: intolerance of intolerance has an obvious internal conflict that is tricky to negotiate.  Those that don't recognize the conflict can often do more harm than good.


[ Parent ]
You Can't Just End It (4.00 / 1)
You're interpreting "culture war" on the content/effects level, not the contextual/causal Gramscian level of control of cultural institutions.

If there were no Gramsian level, then a straightforward conflict resolution approach would be feasible, but it's not.

You can't diffuse conflict that's generated from authoritarian elites without rendering them powerless.  They simply will not stop otherwise.  That's why we need to build up counter-institutions to render them powerless. Then and only then will conflict resolution/dissipation become possible.

This is not to say that no work can be done on resolution/dissipation until then.  But it can't be completed.

The kinds of things we need are think tanks that communicate basic truths, and practical solutions as effectively as the rightwing think tanks communicate lies and fantasies.  It's not mirror image propaganda we're talking about.  Our institutions need to be functionally competetive, not morally equivilent.  We also need progressive media that does the same.  There is simply not going to be a cessation of hostilities so long as Fox News continues with no effective counter-weight.

If you're not familiar with it, I would suggest you read Getting To Peace by William Ury.  He writes form a very broad knowledge base, drawing on techniques used in different cultures around the world. Balancing out the power of aggressors is a vital component in conflict resolution.  And this is simply an instance of that larger principle.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Both of you guys are right. This site is very lucky to have such intelligent commenters. (4.00 / 1)
that help bring clarity and cohesion to these topics. We are all on the same side here, we are just trying to combine our collective cognitive surpluses to figure out the best way to advance the progressive movement. There exist nothing like this on the Right, within their blogosphere or anywhere else. This is a huge advantage for progressives.

The kinds of things we need are think tanks that communicate basic truths, and practical solutions as effectively as the rightwing think tanks communicate lies and fantasies.

This is exactly what I was thinking about reading you guys posts. In some ways blogs function as think tanks. Even more effective at some things which require larger scale collective input (helps avoid groupthink).

Absolutely we also need more traditional style brick-and-mortar think tanks and, more importantly, we need   a better, faster, and more efficient media apparatus to get our message injected into the 'mainstream' dialog. We've done an incredibly job on the internet (the inherently more Democratic medium) but we need to still work the traditional mediums as well.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
Role of the President (4.00 / 2)
I understand this (finally) but believe the war must be fought on multiple fronts.  The bully pulpit of the presidency is better situated for the disarmament I'm describing than the Gramsian battle you describe.

Now it is true that Obama sometimes undermines this battle, and that is obviously bad.  But I don't think he does this as often as we think.  We in the liberal blogosphere tend to notice every single time he utters statements that go against liberalism; kind of like noticing all the missing white girls from watching Fox News.  If you asked the random person on the street about Obama's undermining of the liberal message they would probably laugh at you.  Most consider Obama to be the most openly liberal candidate we've nominated since Mondale.

(And yes, I understand that the last sentence is a good example of the problem you are trying to fix.)


[ Parent ]
Fixing him shifts the trend because of his position in the (4.00 / 1)
party and the style of leadrship he engenders. As I said below and now here, the fact is, if he truly wanted to 'emulate' Reagan he would remember the 11th command. I am once again forced to ask about many of you and your understanding of what preceed Obama.

[ Parent ]
I don't see Obama as another Reagan... (0.00 / 0)
too me his talk of post-partisanship and "working together" is more rhetoric than strategy. I don't think he will compromise nearly as much as Reagan or even Bill Clinton. His rhetoric is saying to rational Republicans: "come on over, the water is fine, we don't hate you." Obama realizes that the GOP is so far behind on the times that they have made themselves vulnerable with all their anti-science anti-intellectualism. He is offering Republicans a chance to switch sides without having to admit that they were totally clueless in the past. It is very hard on the ego for a person to admit that nearly everything they thought politically was in fact wrong and most likely contrary to their self interests. Nobody wants to believe they are that stupid.  

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.

[ Parent ]
THe 11th Commandment has nothing to do with (0.00 / 0)
post partisan. Your post also has nothing do with what Obama has said and done.  

[ Parent ]
However... (0.00 / 0)
This sort of wish-fulfillment reading into Obama is so widespread that it seems to be a key feature of his organizing strategy, to say as little as possible, so as to leave as much room as possible for people to construct their images/explanations to suit themselves.

This can be a very good strategy for an artist.  I was just watching the video for "Man In The Moon" yesterday, and was struck yet again by how deeply ambiguous both the song and the video are--it's utterly impossible for anyone to say concretely what either of them "mean"--if, indeed, "meaning" has any meaning here in a conventional sense.  But they are highly evocative, literally sucking the projections out of you.

That same sort of strategy by a politician, though, is extremely risky for a democracy.  You are participating in the creation of a "mandate"--a mandate that is, in effect, a blank check.  That's coming frighteningly close to being a dictatorship in democracy's clothes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I agreed with everything up to the "blank check" and "dictatorship" part. (0.00 / 0)
So far, hasn't done anything horrible yet. Nothing to make me want to disown him. Should he do something like that to let me down, believe that I will become disillusioned with him very quickly. Obama supporters are not sheeple. We happen to be inspired by someone, maybe in an irrational groupie kind of way. Maybe we are giving him the benefit of the doubt. Should he do something to betray his, I would become uninspired very quickly. I just don't consider him doing an interview with Chris Wallace to be the ultimate betrayal. Obamaphiles are not Bush supporters, there wont be 25% of us still approving of him if he becomes total objective failure.

Obama will inevitably eventually do something that I will be very dissipointed with and I feel let down, but I'll still be pretty sure I made the right decision with my vote considering the options. Until that happens, allow us to feel inspired by a politician for once in our lives. I was born during the Carter administration. People want somebody to believe in and look up to. Obama is by no means perfect but to a lot of people he seems honest and genuine and refreshingly different from what we're used to seeing in our nominees.  

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
It's Not About Something So Horrible You'd Want To Disown Him (4.00 / 1)
It's more about simply never getting the right focus on the enormous problems we face, in part because the language always remains too vague.  This would, in effect, be a rerun of the Clinton Era, but with more at stake.

There are dangers of much worse than that, of course.  But that's not realistically what I expect.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I am convinced that either they simply either (4.00 / 1)
don't understand the points being made, or willfully don't want to get them because it requires self examination about their own role in any eventual failure. It's been said too many times, and proven in too many ways for me to conclude that it's some other possibility. Think about it- all the things you are saying requires self examination, and not just how one feels. It requires one to realize that each of us has a responsibility outside of saying "I support candidate x" In essense, when you say hold Obama accountable becuase you are projecting, you are saying something about the voters that they don't want to hear.  You are telling them to change their own behaviors. If there is a 12th Commandment of politics - its that the voters want to believe they always right even when they are just making stuff up to fill in the blanks in order to justfiy their choices. No one is suppose to point that out to them.

[ Parent ]
This comment is confusing, to put it mildly. (0.00 / 0)
I'm not even sure we are having the same conversation, at least not the conversation I thought we were having.

In essense, when you say hold Obama accountable becuase you are projecting, you are saying something about the voters that they don't want to hear.

Having trouble making sense of this.

I thought I "got it" but after reading this post I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to get.

Is your argument that by "saying you support candidate x" then de facto you are not holding that candidate accountable?

Obama supporters don't necessarily agree with everything he does. Being an Obama supporter doesn't mean that you think everything he does is right and everything he touches turns to gold. It just means you want to see him elected President.

I feel like we are arguing within completely different contexts. Maybe I'm just stupid and I don't "get the point."

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
Maybe so but I fear that "fixing him" might make him unelectable. It shouldn't, but that is the reality of our media right now. n/t (0.00 / 0)


End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.

[ Parent ]
Additional point (0.00 / 0)
Your post really saddens me as a person with a degree in political science. I thought it was well understood why Obama, the man who is trying to be President, would be the central focus on such crticism. That you don't understand why, says you don't understand the nature of the role he's taking on. There is no way you can wrote what you have written and understand the nature of the Presidency.

[ Parent ]
Wow (4.00 / 2)
You crammed a lot of insults into a few words. Bravo!

My objection is that Paul writes as if Obama is the sole Democrat who behaves this way, and that Obama is somehow responsible for the behavior of the entire party. Obama isn't even the nominee yet!

We've all rightly criticized Obama for this behavior, but the one candidate who moved in our direction, John Edwards, didn't win any states. Why would any politician in Obama's position suddenly change strategy when he's winning?

The truth is that our inability to get a hard-core progressive at the top of the ticket tells us something about the weakness of our movement (although we are growing). And a number of front-page posters here at Open Left have taken that (valid) frustration and unfairly focused it on Obama, as if he is the cause of it all. Obama is a symptom, not a cause.

Given that, if he takes the White House, we'll have to work hard to push his administration towards attacking the core of the conservative ideology.


[ Parent ]
The buck stops with Obama (4.00 / 1)
If you don't understand why Paul is focused on the man who wants to lead the country and our party, then the problem is with your appreciation of Presidential leadership. If you find that insulting, good. I am not trying to make you feel better about your attempts to deny accountability.

"The buck stops with Obama." Until that becomes your mantra rather than setting up excuses for him, you will continue to read posts that you consider to be insults.  


[ Parent ]
I agree completely... (0.00 / 0)
We need to do all we can to hold Obama accountable and move him in the right direction. That is, so long as what we are doing doesn't damage his chances of defeating John McCain, in which case all of our efforts would have been in vain.  

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.

[ Parent ]
My Point Here Is That It's STUPID Politics (4.00 / 1)
This is not about progressives vs. centrists or any of that, except as a consequence of something more basic--political effectiveness.

Sure, I'm a raving progressive.  But I also believe in getting things done.  And the simple fact is that everyone to the left of Attila the Hun is politically ineffective if they don't stand up to this.

The fact that progressives are more likely to realize this is significant, of course.  But it does not established a causal correlation.  It's not about being progressive--it's about being realistic.

Finally, it's not even about attacking conservative ideology.  This post says nothing about ideology.  It is about institutionalized power.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Getting things done (0.00 / 0)
Sure, I'm a raving progressive.  But I also believe in getting things done.  And the simple fact is that everyone to the left of Attila the Hun is politically ineffective if they don't stand up to this.

But it is also true that if a politician tries to change too much too fast they will be outcasted from the mainstream and that will severely limit their effectiveness. Look at Dennis Kucinich.

The fact that progressives are more likely to realize this is significant, of course.  But it does not established a causal correlation.  It's not about being progressive--it's about being realistic.

And part of being realistic is realizing that although our "world view" might be the best, most accurate, and correct, if we were to run a campaign completely based on it where we honestly articulated our (correct) view on the world the vast majority of the electorate would be completely turned off because of too rapid change and our campaign would either backfire or prove far left effective than one like Obama's where he sorta allows people to acccept "change" without having to admit that they were completely and utterly wrong about how to run a social society/government for their entire life, which few people would be able to come to grips with.  

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
True, But... (0.00 / 0)
Unlike other Dems, who are simply parroting one another, Obama is declaring a "new direction", which explicitly excludes challenging conservative hegemony.

Now, Dean would be the closest parallel to Obama here, except that he explicitly eschewed setting his own policy direction, and putting making his face the face of the Democratic Party, in favor of grassroots party-building.

That was not necessarily the best deal in the world, but given how well his 50-state strategy has meshed with the across-the-board collapse of the GOP, so that nose-picking party activists in Mississippi may be on the verge of handing us our third consecutive Congressmember from a solid red district in just a few month's time, I'm willing to live with it.

Obama, however, has no such larger bargain to rationalize what he's doing.

Then there's the minor fact that he's the frikken party's leader--and it's his job to lead.

So, of course I'm critical of just about all Dems in this regard.

All the more reason that Obama should be leading a major about face.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Failed Conservaitve Values (4.00 / 3)
I have heard Barack Obama criticizing the failed policies of the administration in several of his speeches, so he does do it.  But I've not heard a criticism of the conservative movement which is the source of the problems.
 
I've been working on a tact of criticizing the Conservative Values. I have written several posts on Failed Conservative Values and continue to do more..
http://progressivespirit.com/I...

and have many interviews of Progressives talking about Failed Conservative Values on Youtube. 
http://youtube.com/group/Progr...

Progressives are split on this approach. Some just want everyone to get along.. However, not defending Progressive Values and not criticizing the Failed Conservative Values is a long term recipe for disaster. The conservative infrastructure is intact and they will be back.

I feel that an attack on Conservatives should be on their failed  values, not at Conservatives personally, but at the Failed Conservative Values  of:  Authoritarians, fear,  secrecy, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, dogmatism, etc.   I lay out this project here.
http://progressivespirit.com/P...

Unfortunately, progressives are not good at a fight in the realm of values and don't understand this fight very well. Would be interested in any thoughts on this.  


Thanks! I Will Check This Out! (0.00 / 0)
The way things work around here, I can't dive deeply into something new during the weekends, as I'm writing a lot, pulling stuff together that I'm already familiar with.

But this looks like a very promising approach, so I'm definitely going to look more deeply at what you've done.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
your thoughts (0.00 / 0)
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this project when you get a chance. would be helpfull..

[ Parent ]
Count On It! (0.00 / 0)
And bug me, if I'm slow in following up.  My email's on my user page.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Real World (4.00 / 1)
The reason for the difference is straight forward.  Conservatism is largely about the fear of other while liberalism is about trying to understand the other.  Put these two against each other and they spend all their time demonizing us and we try to understand them.  Put that through the spin cycle a few times and end up where we are.


[ Parent ]
not telling the truth (4.00 / 1)
I ask the progressives that don't want to criticize conservative values what they really think about conservative values. They say they have failed, but they don't want to tell the truth directly to conservative faces, because they are trying for harmony. But it doesn't work.. It's like a codependent relationship. Plus it is not a truthful position.

[ Parent ]
Agreed (0.00 / 0)
But our first instinct, and it is a good one, is to go  for cooperation.  Codependent describes the relationship well.

But this is tricky.  We can't win the same way the conservatives can win.  It is easy for the side that believes all is black and white to compete on that field.  Those of use that believe things are far more complex must walk a more difficult path.


[ Parent ]
BTW, looks really good (4.00 / 1)
Just looking over your links, it looks interesting.

I have a theory about values and conservatism that leads to a different list than you write.  Some conservative values, particularly dealing with sexuality, are very different.  But I think that all sane people have basically the same core values, but have them in a different priority.  For example, I believe in personal responsibility much like a conservative does, but I also believe in community and helping one another.  Conservatives would claim the same values, but put personal responsibility higher.  When the two values appear to be in conflict, one takes priority over the other.

Ultimately, the prioritizing comes out in our fears.  Conservatives fear someone taking advantage of our help and community.  We fear someone being abandoned and blamed for not taking personal responsibility.

Add to that the old aristocratic wealth taking over conservative values and perverting them to their own means, and you have what we have today.


[ Parent ]
Lakoff Makes The Same Argument At A Deeper Level (0.00 / 0)
Lakoff stresses that the Strict Father and Nurturant Parent models both involve the same pair of core values--strength and nurtarance.

But the Strict Parent values nurturance in order to build and maintain strength, while the Nurturant Parent values strength, because it takes strength to be fully nurturant.

I think the moral here is that it's true on multiple levels.

It's fractal thing, y'all.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
progressive emapthy and conservative ?? (0.00 / 0)
from my reading of lakoff, he say's empathy is the core progressive value.  
I'm not clear on what he says is the one core conservative value.

Here is an interview of Joe Brewer, one of the exRockridge fellows talking about progressive value of empathy.

Progressive Values? Joe Brewer - Empathy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Edwin Rutsch
What Are Progressive Values? Documentary Project
http://ProgressiveSpirit.com
and Study Group
http://www.dfalink.com/group.p...


[ Parent ]
A Different Framework (0.00 / 0)
I was referring to the models he advaned in Moral Politics in 1996.

He has focused more on empathy since then, for at least two reasons that I can infer.  One is the research on the mirror neurons that's been done, and the implications it has for human cognition on multiple levels.  The other is that he's focusing on helping liberals develop their own capacity to discuss and articulate values.  This is a sort of applied research that necessarily has a different focus.

But as I understand it, empathy and nurturance are closely related.  Nurturance is simply a natural expression of empathy.  It's not the only expression, and empathy is arguably more fundamental, but the two are closely related. So it's plausible that if pressed, Lakoff might somehow revise what he wrote in 1996.  But I'm not aware that he has, and even if he has, it still strikes me as a good enough Newtonian model--meaning one that explains a great deal, even if its foundations may be shown to be too simple to account for more sophisticated phenomena.

Now, I would suggest we could connect these back to the Kleinian positions I discussed a couple of weeks ago.  The conservative valuing of strength relfects the felt need to fight against the perceived "bad" objects in the paranoid-schizoid position, while the liberal valuing of empathy reflects the less defensive functioning of projective identification in the depressive position.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Hmm? (0.00 / 0)
I thought it was the Strict Parent (likened to a father figure) who valued strength and the Nurturant Parent (likened to a mother figure) who valued nurturance.

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
Both value both.  The difference is which is primary and which is in service to the other.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
a values model (0.00 / 0)
here is a model I created for conservative and progressive values.
http://progressivespirit.com/P...

it's still in development, but a good start. the progressives values are the ones mentioned in the 200 interviews I've done so far. I used Lakoff's list of principles.

what's your list of conservative values then? you only mentioned fear and responsibility  


[ Parent ]
Conservative values (0.00 / 0)
The problem I have with the list of conservative values is conservatives wouldn't agree with it.  I'd rather start with lists both sides agree on and then dig deeper into the pitfalls of those values and ideals, and how easily perverted they can become.

The point about "born good" and "born bad" is very important, though.  In fact, it may be the key.  My only quibble is liberals don't really think people are born good quite as much as born a black slate.  Science, of course, is showing this to be more complex than either side claims (though we can deal with it, they cannot.)


[ Parent ]
There Are Lists of Values and Orientations (0.00 / 0)
That researchers compiled back in the 60s and 70s, based on literature searches.  I think that more recent work would probably show more of a shift among conservatives than liberals, as the conservatives have become somewhat erratic of late.  But it's definitely a preferred approach to start with what each side professes, and then to proceed from there.

It's not so much that the right embraces hypocrisy as a value--they don't.  But they accept it willingly when it's their leaders' hypocrisy that's in question, and Altemeyer's analysis of Rightwing Authoritarianism helps explain why.  And this, in turn, proceeds from what they do value--tradition, authority, comformity, obedience, etc.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Obedience (0.00 / 0)
Now there is value I don't share; just saying the word makes me quiver.  Conservatives really can't understand that I would honestly be embarrassed if my own daughter were obedient, even to me.  I want her to understand why some things are right and wrong and in certain situations trust my judgment based on her past experience with me.  That just isn't the same thing as obedience.

[ Parent ]
I Think Aretha Has The Answer To That One... (0.00 / 0)
It's R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

It's not just that she trusts your judgment--although she does.  But even more fundamentally, it's that there's a dynamic of respect that goes both ways.  It's the dynamic of respect, IMHO, that allows the trust in judgement to occupy center stage.

I think that respect is a very important liberal value, and it's quite evident in your example.  What you want from your daughter is respect.  There are situations in which she should do what you say not out of obedience--implying that she has no right to question you--but simply out of respect, meaning that there is a complex web of reasons, and in part because you respect her, and would not demand her obedience, she respects your desire that she do a certain thing.  For the most part, I don't think most conservatives are capable of grasping what's going on in such a situation, they simply lack the vocabularly, or the modelled experience, or some other key component.

They also tend to confuse respect with fear--not necessarily fear of punishment, though that's sometimes present, but fear of loss... of approval, of love, of acceptance, etc.

Their concept of respect is a highly conditional one, which comes out of a basic existential anxiety, which in turn comes from an experience of being cut off from basic empathic connection.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
conservative values have failed, now let's talk. (0.00 / 0)
On the Model, I have a category of conservative values I call, Failed Conservative Values. They are the mirror of the stated conservative values and the actualized values. I'm not so interested in idealized values, but what is actually manifest. The Failed Conservative Values are what I see as the "Achilles Heal" of Conservativism. These are the values they actually manifest and that need to be unmasked in the larger culture.

I think the conversation starter with conservatives is not,

"What do we have in common?" (hasn't worked in 30 years why will it work now?) but rather,

"Your conservative values have failed, now let's talk."  


[ Parent ]
Well, For Exaple (0.00 / 0)
My diary earlier today showed quite clearly that conservatives don't value our men and women in uniform.

You can see it in their votes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
what is that value? (0.00 / 0)
Value our men and women in uniform.
what is the actual value you are saying conservatives are manifesting toward the military?

What is the actualized Failed Conservative Value? indifference? selfishness?  


[ Parent ]
Their SUPPOSED "Support" For the Troops Has Failed (0.00 / 0)
Which is not the same angle of attack you're taking.  But it's quite demonstrably true.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Failed Conservative Value of Hypocrisy (0.00 / 0)
I think your trying to say the Failed Conservative Value of Hypocrisy?

[ Parent ]
Failed Conservative Value of Hypocrisy perhaps? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
I don't get it .. (0.00 / 0)
how do you come to the conclusion that Joe Klein is a Democrat?  He obviously has a severe distaste for DFH's.  Is it because he once wrote a Woody Guthrie bio?  I am not trying to be snarky.  I am just curious for your justification.  I surf over to Swampland.  I have read Klein's columns in Time.  The other thing I don't get it Tweety and Teh Big Punkinhead(Mattews and Russert).  Tweety once worked for Tip O'Neill and Russert for Moynihan and yet both suck up to Republicans so much it is sickening.  I don't expect them to be Stewart and Colbert but I would figure they'd be a little more fair and not engage in their Republican man crushes.  Or are they just no conscience idiots who used working in Congress as a stepping stone to their true intentions?

Klein Identifies As A Democrat (0.00 / 0)
So, too, does Matthews.

And, given that I've seen some pretty sucky Dmeocrats in my time, why shouldn't I believe them?

But the point is, really, with Democrats like these, who needs Republicans?

They are perfectly willing to follow the pack, yowling at the top of their lungs to convey the false impression that they are leading it.

But none of these on-air jokers runs anything.  It's all about the institutional framework behind them.  They're just 12-foot gargoyles.  The building's frikken 40 stories high.

Network, anyone?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Network, anyone? (4.00 / 2)
It is the international system of currency which determines the vitality of life on this planet. THAT is the natural order of things today. THAT is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today. And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature. And YOU WILL ATONE. Am I getting through to you, Mr. Rosenberg?

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

[ Parent ]
The cultural context (4.00 / 1)
I still believe there is a contradiction in your analysis with regard to how much a successful presidential campaign can get done within the cultural context you have been describing.

Kucinich recently, Fred Harris, maybe Jerry Brown, George McGovern, etc. all took on the cultural domination you describe. But they couldn't defeat it on their own -- in a campaign setting.

It will take power to overcome the Right's advantage. And power accrues to a president, not a candidate.

I do, however, believe we have to keep pushing, and your criticism serves that purpose, and I respect it for that.


Approach to the Right and approach to the Left (4.00 / 2)
Personally, I think Obama's approach to the Right is basically correct.  My problem is with is approach to the Left.  He needs to defend people on the Left, even when he disagrees with a specific, the same way he defends those on the Right.

[ Parent ]
You are right about that (0.00 / 0)
I completely agree. To the extent that's not being done, criticism of the campaign along these lines is well taken.

It may take elected office and power to get the necessary job done, but in a campaign context that mission should at the least not be undermined.


[ Parent ]
Build your brand (4.00 / 2)
If he wants to emulate Reagan- that was the lesson from him. Not policy, but how to approach your own. People say what can Obama do to help - first step would be to realize that the Presidency is the bullypulpit. His influence on that level if huge as to the cultural shifts. He can't do it alone, but he must show leadership with it or else it also won't happen because there is no leadership for it.

[ Parent ]
Reagan never (4.00 / 1)
trashed his own. That is simply not how you build power.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I personally think that several people are too dense (0.00 / 0)
to get this point. They keep wrting these long ass excuses apologizing for Obama as if the man isn't going to be the leader of the party and country. The excuses need to stop and so does the whining about people holding him accountable for what he says and does in that role.

[ Parent ]
It Ain't All Or Nothing (0.00 / 0)
I may have given a false impression--since I'm stressing what I see as missing--as to how much I think can be done.  I am not expecting Obama to devote himself to destroying the vast rightwing conspiracy on the way to the White House.  That would not be a realistic expectation.  It would not help him to do so.

But the same cannot be said about what I am in favor of--which is actually rather close to how Reagan ran from the right (as opposed to how Obama thinks he ran).  And that is to take recurrent, strategically directed pot-shots that are specifically intended to soften up entrenched opposition, and pre-emptively defeat the sorts of attacks one can see coming from a mile away.

This can often take the form of very minor difference in how one responds.  For example, with the National Journal labelling him the most "liberal" Senator, he didn't have to disavow the label.  He could just as well have said, "Well, these are just common sense things I voted for.  And if that makes me a liberal, well, fine.  Franklin D. Roosevelt was a liberal. John F. Kennedy was a liberal.  Martin Luther King was a liberal, so I'm in fine company.  But an aweful lot of conservatives would agree with me on those votes, because they're just plain common sense--just as a lot of conservatives agreed with Roosevelt, Kennedy and King."

Now, sure that would have provided the right with additonal snippets they could use against him.  But he has an easy comeback--which is simply to restate the full argument again, verbatim, an argument for which they simply have no response.

"Oh, please Mr. Rove! Don't throw me back into that 'liberal' briar patch!"

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
In fact, because they have no response (4.00 / 1)
they try to usurp the imagery when it suits them. ie, McCain with MLK was funny.

[ Parent ]
only one-sided if you ignore non-symmetrical warfare (0.00 / 0)
Yes, the right wins on the punditry front, but that's not the only front.  Putting aside the question of who's winning (a tough one in non-symmetrical situations) ...

Put yourself in the shoes of Joe (Sixpak) Reagandem.  You can say shit and damn and ass and piss on network.  On cable, you can even say fuck.  Your kids are more tech-savvy than you, and the parental controls are too much trouble.

Blacks and whites and latinos, boy and girl alike, mingle freely on the morning cartoons.  Your trampy daughter doesn't have to get shipped to New York for "mono" like in the 60s when she may already have a supply of abortion pills from her little friends.  And the Pill?  Don't get Joe started.

A Black man may be your next president.

Check out "So You Think You Can Dance"!  Black white Asian Latino gay, couples totally mixed and not an eyebrow raised, in scanty dancing costumes.

The internet, a radical cesspool.

Watch 24 closely.  Fox, mind you.  And every other episode it looks like a different faction has won that week's battle, yay torture, a criminal president, a Black president, yay pre-emptive strike, yay stopping right-wing war-mongers.  If you can't trust Fox ...

Hollywood pushes its liberal agenda virtually unchallenged.

Women!  One might be your boss, and she might be a real bitch, but saying so to the wrong person could get you canned.  And if your wife (1st, 2nd, 3rd?) gets pissed off, you can divorce you.

Your son is dating a Black/Asian/Latino girl.  You can't prove it, but you know he's on drugs.

Women announcers for the NBA playoffs.  And the stuff they get to see in the locker room ...

Oh, and dwarves are all over TV.

This isn't just Joe's paranoia -- this is a real force.  What has happened to the natural order of things?

************

So yes, this is all under assault.  We took a lot of ground in the 60s, and they try to roll it back even as they get old and die.  But we are defending the high ground.  Even when they are overtly racist, they have to pretend otherwise.  No "whites only" signs allowed.  Even when they are overtly sexist, they have to pretend otherwise or they'll get sued.  Nor I am I in any way suggesting complacency over the viciousness of sexism which has turned into a tsunami in response to Hillary, or the overt (disguised as cold analysis) racism directed at Obama.  But there is the dynamic of this decade within the context of the dynamic of the past century.

So I completely support your call for building our counter-institutions.  I don't deny the threat we face, such as "Who lost Saudi Arabia?" hysteria coming up, as we fight to avoid a Weimar Republic situation.

But by over-focusing on the punditry to charge that we aren't fighting back, that the right is unchallenged, you underestimate our assets.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


You Make A Very Good Point (0.00 / 0)
In fact, I make a very similar argument myself--that the culture is moving in a progressive direction, even as the political elites have moved sharply to the right.

I tried to discuss the collision of these two tendencies--along with a few other complicating factors--in my series "Three Waves And A Wall:2008 And The American Future".

I think that the overall balance is clearly in our favor, but given the need for really smart--no, make that wise policy decisions to solve mega-problems such as global warming, and worldwide economic justice, I think it's clear that we need to retake the punditocracy as well, or else we really could end up in a brain-dead "war of civilizations" rather than pulling together to solve problems that all the people of the world share in common.

So, that's the most salient argument I can present as to why the punditocracy matters, even if other forces favor us:  it's  not enough for us to win the election.  We have to be able to govern--and do so with such a high level of success that we avoid some of the most difficult problems the human race has faced since the beginning of recorded history.

I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Indeed (0.00 / 0)
We are in unstable times, and we cannot afford complacency on any front.  See further, Cabaret.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
Cabaret, Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)
Isn't like, time for a remake?

BTW, in light of Mark's post below, here's a little set theory formula for ya:

Cabaret |^| Buffy = Joel Grey

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Uhm- no. the original cabaret was good just the way it is (0.00 / 0)
sometimes, like with speed racer, hollywood should realize making it new, big and a shiny isn't the best way to go.

[ Parent ]
Oh, I Wasn't Thinking Of Shiny (0.00 / 0)
I was thinking of locating it on a different continent, in a different millenium, if you know what I mean.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Culture (0.00 / 0)
I agree with you 100% when it comes to cultural liberalism.  The only reason for all these initiatives against gay marriage is because we are winning and they feel the need to fight back.  And they show this on tv:



[ Parent ]
Dang, Mark! (0.00 / 0)
You know, I never realized that was Heather Nova.  "Walk This World" is one of my all-time favorite songs.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
That episode makes me sad (0.00 / 0)
Also, I hate Kennedy.

Did anyone else notice that Amber Benson was in one of the ads that made the final cut for the Obama in 30 seconds thing?  Wasn't a very good ad, though, unfortunately.


[ Parent ]
Tara Was My Favorite, Too (0.00 / 0)
But I don't hate Kennedy. In fact, I love her bold outspokeness as much as I loved Tara for her shyness.

If you notice, this is just a part of Joss's doubling thing, which he copped from Shakespeare.  In fact, there's a double doubling going on here, as Tara is to Kennedy as Kendra is to Faith.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Huh? (0.00 / 0)
What show was that? Also, my monitor is way too dark (even on brightness and contrast turned all the way up) to see much of that video. What was going on?

[ Parent ]
Buffy The Vampire Slayer (0.00 / 0)
Episode 142, "Touched", second from the last episode of the series.  The UK's deleted scene mentioned in the link.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yeah... (0.00 / 0)
I can't take all of that. Just too much stuff happening, with the bomb and the sex and the hitting and the tension. Too much like Lost for me.

[ Parent ]
Beyond sex (0.00 / 0)
Lots of people having sex in this scene from Buffy, but what puts this over the top for a conservative is one couple is lesbian and another is interracial.

(I still don't understand why they brought in the slayer ax thing, though.  They already had an incredibly powerful source of energy forged with the blood of the slayer available for the writers to use for plot purposes: Dawn.  Oh well...)


[ Parent ]
Ah, C'mon, The Whole King Arthur Thing Was Waayyyy Cool (0.00 / 0)
But I do agree that they missed something with Dawn.

I  really did expect some kind of payoff from her in some way or another that never happened.  Especially after being teased with the possibility that she was a potential slayer, and then having that not pan out.  It really seemed like something had to be coming.

what puts this over the top for a conservative is one couple is lesbian and another is interracial.

BIG problems.  But human/vampire, not so much.

Go figure.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I blogged about this as well ... (4.00 / 1)
Paul, yet another excellent post -- and a very good discussion.  

My post on Liminal States looked at this through a different lens (oppression theory) and so I focused on something very complementary to the points that have come up so far in this thread.  A picture's worth a thousand words, so, I used the Telegraph's picture of the top 10 pundits to highlight a thread on Gender, race, age, and power in online discussions, chapter n.  It works remarkably well in context, because the uniformity here is even stronger than in their political viewpoints:

They're all white.  And they're all guys.

This points to a huge potential advantage for us in terms of the culture wars: a more balanced demographic mix of pundits is likely to be far broader in its appeal -- and give the weathervane folks some additional options.  

Of course this lack of diversity isn't restricted to conservatives.  My post ended with a couple of articles pointing to similar dynamics in the progressive blogosphere:

See also A.J. Rossmiller's Myth of the meritocracy (including Morgaine's and my comments) and Kate Steiger's The "new" new left is white, male.

It's straight out of Freire: the oppressed recreating the conditions of oppression.  Especially in light of the points Chris made in his equally-excellent Wow, we nominated the black guy, this is an important thing to be conscious of as progressives employ asymmetric methods to undermine and route around the hegemony.


Yet Another Reason I Never Pay Attention to That Crowd (0.00 / 0)
Seriously.  I listen to Democracy Now during the week, hosted by Amy Goodman.  That's followed by a different program each day the next hour--some great, some not so much.  Then at 8, it's Uprising with Sonali Kolhatkar.  Which includes weekly features like "Empire Notes" from Rahul Mahajan, (Full Spectrum Dominance), "Black Agenda Report" With Glenn Ford, and commentary from death row by Mumia Abu Jamal.

That's my daily alternative to the world listed above.

And no, Sonali's not just some white dude from the Valley with an out-there handle.  She's an Indian-born former software engineer from Caltech, with a degree in astrophysics.

There's not just a whole other world out there.  There's a frikken galaxy.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


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