Why Bill Clinton is Wrong (Although He Spins Well)

by: tremayne

Fri May 30, 2008 at 10:27


Bill Clinton is once again pushing the "popular vote" angle on his wife's race against Barack Obama. As most know, the popular vote claim for Hillary Clinton is predicated on counting Michigan and Florida where the candidates didn't campaign or run ads (and in MI Obama's name wasn't on the ballots). Without those two states Obama is ahead in total votes and will finish June 3 ahead in total votes.

But I'd like to offer something new about this popular vote argument because it is clear we will be hearing more about it in the days to come. It has to do with a point made by the Obama campaign about the validity of the popular vote metric. Their point is that, given that the whole contest is predicated on winning delegates, their strategy was focused on winning delegates and not on maximizing total votes.

In the proportionally-allotted delegate system used in the Democratic praimaries it is most efficient in terms of advertising dollars and candidate time (UPDATE: and organizing time/money) to "buy" the cheapest delegates. Each delegate vote is worth "1" but the cost of acquiring each delegate vote varies.  A simple way to see this, for example, is to divide each state's population by the total delegates it will have. You'll find that each delegate in Vermont represents about 40-thousand people and each delegate in Texas represents more than 100-thousand.  If you're a smart campaign and you're looking for one extra delegate, better to spend your time and money in places where, say, reaching a million people translates into 25 potential delegates instead of just 10 potential delegates. Is this what the Obama campaign did?  The table below sure makes that case. The 15 "cheapest" states/contests are listed along with the winner and the delegate margin the candidate won. Obama won 12 of these contests and his total pledged delegate margin among these 15 is 42 (so far, WY and SD may pad that).



LOCATION POP. DELE- GATES POP./DEL. VOTE WINNER (DEL.MARGIN)
Dem.Abroad  100,000 (est.)
7
 14,286Obama +2
Amer.Samoa*
 57,291 3
 19,097 Clinton +1
D.C.
 572,059 15
 38,137 Obama +11
Guam*
 154,623 4 38,656 Obama +0
Vermont
 608,827 15
40,588
Obama +3
Wyoming*
493,782
12
41,148
Obama +2
Alaska*
626,932
13
48,226
Obama +7
N. Dakota*
642,200
13
49,400
Obama +3
Rhode Island
1,048,319
21
49,920
Clinton +5
S. Dakota
754,844
15
50,323
Obama**
Delaware
783,600
15
52,240
Obama +3
Maine*
1,274,923
24
53,122
Obama +6
New Hampsh. 1,235,786
22
56,172
Clinton -3
Montana
902,195
16
56,387
Obama**
Hawaii*
1,211,537
20
60,577
Obama +8

*Caucuses

**Candidate significantly ahead in most recent poll

If you continue down beyond the 15 listed here you'll start finding more Clinton victories. At the very bottom of the list, where reaching the large numbers of people required to achieve an extra is expensive, you'll find that Clinton wins 4 out of 6 states. These victories come at great expense and after doing this math I am not surprised the Clinton campaign is in debt.

Now, the flip side to this argument is that, therefore, each pledged delegate that Clinton won should be "worth more." And that is Bill Clinton's argument, although he bases it on the fact that Obama did well in caucus states (which I've designated above with an asterisk) where each "vote" is, in his opinion, disproportionally powerful. But the table above shows that it's not just caucus states where "cheaper" delegates could be pursued. 

The Obama campaign had the best strategy for the system we have in place. In the general election do we want the candidate who will maximize the popular vote or the one who will work to maximize the electoral vote? Remember, Al Gore would have won with any other low population state. He wouldn't have needed Florida. And remember, he won the popular vote, for what that's worth.

tremayne :: Why Bill Clinton is Wrong (Although He Spins Well)

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Awesome Analysis (4.00 / 1)
Awesome analysis, Tremayne.  If the Clinton campaign had been as analytical as you then she might have been the candidate.

Part of Obama's success is that his campaign was a lot better prepared.  Clearly, there is a lot more to strategy than polling.  The Obama campaign immersed itself into the rules and the Clinton campaign did not.


Well (4.00 / 2)
While I agree with your basic premise, that the popular vote metric is BS because both campaigns were rightly designed to obtain delegates not popular votes, there's a lot of dirtiness in your proof.

First off, you can't focus simply on total population, there's something to be said about numbers of Democrats or even potentially possible Democratic primary voters. For instance your low DC total pop and pop/delegate probably represents pretty close to the likely/potential Dem voters/delegate, but Wyoming? The Dakotas?

Second you have to take into consideration the costs to reach those voters. Some voters are cheap and "worth more" but some voters that may be worth more are more expensive to reach. Changes in how you communicate with them and get them out play a bigger role...

You also can't compare primaries to generals this way. It's true that if Gore had carried Wyoming he wouldn't have needed Florida, but even given the way things turned out, would you have rather that he ceded Florida for a Wyoming strategy?

I don't agree with Clinton that the popular vote metric has any meaning or that Hillary currently leads in this false metric, but you cannot escape the conclusion that no matter how you slice it, the popular vote is closer than the pledged delegate count. Clinton is also generally correct in the "why" of this. Obama has maximized his delegate advantages both through focusing on caucus states where his superior ground presence is likely to give him a major advantage as well as by playing with a more complete understanding of the system and putting efforts into overcoming threshold percentages rather than maximizing popular votes.

People like talking about popular votes, but the fact of the matter is that in Presidential elections (either primaries or the general) it doesn't make sense to go after them except as psychological victories. It's true that Gore won the popular vote in 2000, but I bet had Bush spent a little less time in Florida and a little more in Utah/Idaho/Wyoming/Montana he might have boosted his base turnout and won the popular vote (of course only to lose the electoral college). That would have gained him nothing, however, just like Gore's win of the popular vote gained Democrats nothing.

Popular vote SHOULD be generally correlated with winning, but it isn't necessarily. 2000 was generally close in both metrics, so for a more obvious example look at 1984 or 1988, Mondale and Dukakis got VERY poor electoral vote payment for their popular vote numbers...  


yes (0.00 / 0)
The general election is entirely different beast. In all but 1 or 2 states the electoral votes are "winner take all" for example. And no, I you don't think you concede any close state . My point there was that you want a campaign team that understands strategy and I think the Obama team does. Hopefully they'll have so much money they can compete everywhere but usually choices have to be made. Let's hope they are good choices. So far, they seem adept at it.

[ Parent ]
Really good observation (4.00 / 6)
One of my favorite things about the Obama campaign is that, after years of screaming at the Democrats on my proverbial tv set to do the opposite of whatever it is they're doing, the Obamas keep making me go, "Oh. Well that was smart."

They're like the Billy Beane of campaign politics, exploiting overlooked market inefficiencies in the hunt for delegates. (And the Clinton campaign is like George Steinbrenner ca. 1993, throwing too much money at high-priced, low-delegate yield glamour states like California and Ohio.)


Damn! this is such a good analysis! (4.00 / 1)
Metaphor thy name is beauty.
And beauty, truth.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
I don't know if I like where this analogy is headed (0.00 / 0)
considering Oakland's playoff fortunes...

[ Parent ]
Don't sweat it (0.00 / 0)
Because you know who McCain is in this analogy, don't you?

[ Parent ]
About time to h/fire Mark Penn again (4.00 / 2)
Billy Martin where art thou?

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
I just stumbled across a video... (4.00 / 3)
that is not going to make women voters -- especially Clinton supporters -- very happy.  It's from November 2007 and somehow I missed it when it first happened.  In it, John McCain is asked: "How do we beat the bitch?" which he finds so hilarious he has to wipe tears from his eyes.  

May I suggest that in light of Matt's earlier post about Boomer women moving to Obama that this might be a worthwhile link to hike up the charts?  

John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance



Make that AWAY from Obama (0.00 / 0)


John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance



[ Parent ]
Seriously. Any complaint someone has about Clinton/Obama (4.00 / 1)
can be made tenfold about McCain.  It's damn time we fought the real enemy.

[ Parent ]
Everyone tired of soure grapes spin raise their hand. (4.00 / 1)
Everyone tired of disingenuous BS from Terry Mcauliffe, Harold Ickes puke in their hat!

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

A simple video, someone ask BraveNewFilms to make it. (0.00 / 0)
Michigan and Florida wanting more influence than other states, broke into line at the front, even as they were being asked not to. Like a line of fifty people at a checkout, with  two guys shoving their way to the front with all the other people in line asking them to stop, and the cashier saying "if you cut in line you will have to go to the back of the line."

Its a simple video script

A shot of a lot people at a checkout with two men shoving their way forward demanding to be at the front and most people in the line asking them to stop. Then when they get to the front, the cashier says, "Michigan, Florida, you cant act that way, you have to go to the back of the line."

I dont think it will be necessary for a HRC look-alike at another counter to say, "No, they are with me, they can cut in because I say so."

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


why the line isn't moving (0.00 / 0)
You're leaving out the people parked in chairs at the front of the line, not allowing it to move: Iowa and New Hampshire, who have to be at the front of the line.

[ Parent ]
The people at the front of the line wont move for me! (4.00 / 1)
Well gosh, thats surprising. Guess they got there first.

Want a different system for running the entire Primary system? well actually so do I. Running for office in the party, beginning negotiations, putting forward rule changes, meeting in committee, revising laws, holding referendums I have more things you can do to change this if you want.

On thing not to do: ignore the rules, shove in line, act like a spoiled boy at the party.

"Michigan, this isnt your Birthday, its Iowa's Birthday, yours is coming up soon."

"I want the presents!!!!!""I want the presents!!!!!""I want the presents!!!!!""I want the presents!!!!!" NOOOOO!! ITS MY PARTY!!!!! MINE!!!!"

"Shhhh Michigan, use your inside voice, or we are going to go home without cake."

"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Let's hope... (4.00 / 1)
that Obama does indeed finish ahead in some plausible popular vote count that includes FL and MI.  Because I would be really, really unhappy if the Democratic party's nomination ends up being based on who gamed the system best.  I understand it's the system, everyone knew the rules in advance, etc. etc.  It would make me really unhappy if fewer people (people! total people!) voted for the nominee than his opponent.

He already is ahead (0.00 / 0)
in a very "plausible" popular vote count that includes Michigan and Florida.  He's only arguably behind in the crazy-person one where we pretend that no one in the entire state of Michigan wanted to vote for him.

[ Parent ]
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