Matt .. (4.00 / 1)

Have you talked to anyone at EMILY's List? ... are they doing this only because Cohen equated Hillary with Glenn Close's character from that movie(Damn!! I can't think of the name now)?

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 03:45:17 AM UTC

I remembered the movie now .. (0.00 / 0)

Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 03:49:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Did he really? (4.00 / 4)

Nice.

Actually, in my experience this is exactly the kind of race Emily's List tends to leap at: Woman running against a man, with the woman having a real shot at winning. Doesn't matter whatsoever what the woman says or does or believes (short of being a Republican).

I think it's a completely intellectually bankrupt organization. I mean that in its actual sense: They used to have some serious ideological capital and a real mission that carried weight and provided traction. But now they're just an ATM, and they lose more often than they win.

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by: ColoDem @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 04:14:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It would be a tragic mistake... (4.00 / 6)

... to judge a congressman by perhaps one of the most boneheaded things he's ever said.  He's my congressman.  For the cause of equal rights for women could have no greater champion than Steve Cohen.  He's got a long record of being on the right side of women's issues.  He's already got the Planned Parenthood endorsement.  PP gave him an award not too long ago.  NARAL rates him as fully pro-choice.  He supports the NRA, the Equal Pay Act--- You name it.  In fact, he's one of the reasons that women don't have to wait even longer to get to the bathrooms in stadiums in TN--- He championed the law saying that you had to have enough bathrooms for women.

So it's a slap in the face to the very ideals that a group like EL strives for that they would back some corporate lackey over him.  This is a corporate attorney that was on the management side of all labor disputes and if I'm hearing correctly, helped beat back sexual harassment suits filed by women that were treated unfairly.  Is this what Emily's List champions?  Is it so important to have a woman in office that they will back someone who made a living setting back women's rights?

At the end of the day, they must ask themselves--- Is it more important that a congressman go to the right bathroom, or vote the right way?

Yeah, I cringed when he made the Hillary comment.  The problem is that what he was saying was lost because of the clumsy way he said it.  He said it was time to end a divisive primary season that has set progressive against progressive so we can focus on beating John McCain in November.  One of the best things AND worst things about him is that he is not some polished politician that measures his words and is careful to offend no one.  He speaks off of the top of his head.  Sometimes it works for him.  Other times, not so much.

The year and a half that he's been in office is the first time that many of the younger voters in our district have had much to be proud of in DC.  And one of the reasons we can be so proud is that we have a congressman that we know for a fact cares about how the nation treats our daughters.

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by: MikeInMempho @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:45:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is a problem (4.00 / 8)

with EMILY's List. Too often they have backed and put resources into conservative women challengers instead of focusing on the more progressive ones.

Steve Cohen is a fantastic representative. I can't see how this is a good strategic move.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

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by: Populista @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 04:22:44 AM UTC

Why is Emily's LIST supposed to be progressive? (4.00 / 2)

I never got the sense that EMILY's List was a progressive organization.  Its goal is to provide funding for people with vaginas with some semblance of a pro-choice orientation, especially against opponents who don't fit those two criteria.  I've never seem the group say anything outside of those two qualifications.  Sort of reminds you of black Democrats working with Republicans to create more majority minority Congressional districts, resulting in more Republican-leaning districts overall, doesn't it?

I don't think EMILY's List is in any way betraying their stated mission statement by endorsing Tinker over Cohen, but it's pretty clear that their goal (more women elected) isn't guaranteed to align with progressive interests.

In any case, more contested primaries are supposed to be good for the party, right?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:05:34 AM UTC

Isn't it in their best interests... (4.00 / 5)

... to support candidates that support women?

Progressive...  That is a smoke screen in this conversation.  Progressivism overall isn't the question.  We're not talking about the war (Which Tinker refuses to say where she stands on), taxes (Which she won't answer any questions about). or for that matter, any of the other myriad of questions she won't answer.

It boils down to this:  Who will represent women better?  In this case, I trust my daughter's future more in the hands of the man than I do this woman.  There is no question she will not dodge.  

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by: MikeInMempho @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:56:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't think so, no. (0.00 / 0)

My understanding is that there are organizations which are meant to support the best candidate for women,  or for choice, like PP and NARAL. I have huge issues with some of their choices in the past, because they seem to voilate their own charters. But if EMILY's List is primarily about electing women (and only secondarily about choice) then this is perfectly appropriate. It's not about who will represent women better, it's about increasing the number of female representatives. That's all.

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by: Joel @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 11:10:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Emily's list is making a bad move -- (4.00 / 1)

This will hurt them in the long run. If this represents a long term set of errors and lack of judgment then funding will dry up, and more importantly become a badge of dishonor, Oh no please dont endorse me, I am a good candidate!!!

Emily's list - we show you who has a skirt!(TM)

Too bad.  

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 12:11:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's what their mission statement says (4.00 / 5)

EMILY's List members are dedicated to building a progressive America by electing pro-choice Democratic women to office.

"I believe the government should stay out of abortion" is not pro-choice. The forced childbirthers have clearly demonstrated they will use any means necessary to advance their agenda, from infiltrating pharmacy schools to violence, and "keeping the government out of it" is nothing but a smokescreen to allow them to continue.

Emily's List is violating their mission here.

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 13:05:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks Sadie, another good catch. (4.00 / 3)

This set of discussions on this post is exactly why the inter-toobs are changing the world. It doesnt days or weeks or months or history books to expose, research, discuss and act. It takes minutes and hours.

I think a hell of a lot of progressives are better able to move forward because of discussions like this one, better able to pinpoint their efforts.

I hope I'm right when I say this may change the system of choosing Emily's candidates too. Maybe it will change who is running the organization, maybe it'll cause a funder revolt inside the organization. Maybe it won't, maybe the organization will fall back to  a position, "Elect women no matter their thinking." Thats their right, but it will affect who funds them, and who listens to their endorsements.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 13:16:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If she won't declare on the war, she's pro-war (4.00 / 1)

just like her mentor Harold Ford, who rushed across the mall to get his picture taken with Bush when he declared his intention to invade Iraq.

The district is half black, and African Americans are the most anti-war constituency in the nation.  The fact that a pro-war hack like Ford got elected all those years is just one more proof of how profoundly undemocratic and unrepresentative (but not broken, I would argue, since they are pretty much designed to produce these sorts of results) our media and political systems are.

Tinker is an utterly corrupt, completely cynical clone of Ford.  She also has the backing of a bunch of black ministers in Memphis flying the anti-gay flag.    Tinker deserves to go down.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston

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by: bruce.dixon @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 16:13:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

EMILY's seems to be acting properly (4.00 / 1)

Matt is being consistent here by supporting the more progressive candidate, and I don't criticize him at all for that.

That said, I think there should be a bit more evidence showing she is not really pro-choice than a paraphrase on a blog.  MANY pro-choice Democrats says that they do not like abortion, or something like that.  

Overall, It seems to me that this is consistent with EMILY's mission.  If they can get a woman in by making an alliance with Ford, it's not any more shocking or bad than numerous other political deals around the country.  If it's fair for other Democrats, it's fair for EMILY's list.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

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by: Hopeful in NJ @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:17:40 AM UTC

I hope to have audio (4.00 / 1)

of last electilon's debate with Cohen later this weekend to illustrate that.  Just trying to dig it up.

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by: vibinc @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 10:16:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I dont understand She is a bad candidiate that will hurt American women (4.00 / 3)

What else is there to say?

That this is 'internally consistent' with Emily's goals, just calls their goals into question. Like supporting Margaret Thatcher or Libby Dole. She wont answer questions on Iraq?

If Condoleeza Rice is McCain's VP does Emily's List support that ticket over Obama/Edwards? Ands if they do we know who they are, and we act accordingly. Acting accordingly is first and foremost exposing their decision making process.

Matt caught an important fact here, it raises the amount of information we have to judge political actors in America.

I used to think Emily's list was an ally in fighting for womens rights and the issues that matter to women, now I know they are a personal ambition promoter for individual women.

Thanks Matt.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 12:53:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Emily's List is no doormat (0.00 / 0)

When Steve Cohen said, "Glenn Close should have just stayed in the tub," about Hillary, that's what's called a dealbreaker.  If you call yourself a progressive and you don't understand that, then you're not a progressive.  You're one of Melissa McEwan's "fauxgressives."

Emily's List isn't interested in being a lapdog like a MoveOn, and I'm glad one organization on the left is saying actions have consequences.

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by: DanDinSF @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:23:06 AM UTC

MoveOn is a lapdog? .. (4.00 / 3)

to whom? ... and how is that a deal breaker? .. I don't like that he said it .. but I also know that not everyone is perfect

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:26:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ditto and Ditto (4.00 / 1)

On your comments!

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by: mabelle55 @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:41:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, it looks like any rep who supports obama.... (4.00 / 4)

...will now be targetted.  This is very typical DLC.. they did it to people in the 90's for revenge and the result was serious losses of house and senate seats.

We need to help this guy out!  

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

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by: lord_mike @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:54:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Progressives can exploit this sentiment (4.00 / 1)

I presume that there are some Bush Dogs who endorsed Obama and some who endorsed Clinton.  Start one organization to target Obama endorsers and appeal to disgruntled Clintonistas to vote Obama in 2008 but get their revenge in 2010 on some of Obama's backers by throwing money at primary challengers.  Start another organization that points Obamamaniacs at Hillaryite Bush Dogs.

OK, maybe it won't be that easy, but it seems like a fun idea to talk about.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:05:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

don't make this about Obama. It ain't (0.00 / 0)

Too many this year are making everything about the presidential contest, and the presidential contest about everything.  Obama is, albeit informally, closer to the politics of the DLC than most.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston

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by: bruce.dixon @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 16:17:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're thinking about "Hillary's List"... (4.00 / 1)

as opposed to Emily's List. The latter has a goal of "building a progressive America by electing pro-choice Democratic women to office". The former seeks to put Hillary Clinton in the highest possible office. The latter should have all progressives as allies, even if it won't directly support their election because of their gender. The former uses revenge and backstabbing to make sure it gets its way.

Sadly it's been hard to tell one apart from the other recently.

It's the first time I hear the term lapdog used in this context, but I suppose it's now added to the list of adjectives including sexist, misogynist and cult-like, terms used to describe supporters of candidates not named Hillary Clinton.

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by: bmozaffari @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 09:44:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I halfway suspect I'm responding (4.00 / 2)

to snark (if that's the case, my excuse is: it's early!), but I'm not sure that any one statement a dealbreaker, or a reason to cast an other-wise progressive representative forever into the outer darkness.

Without too much effort, I can remember recent statements from a variety of candidates that would seem to easily rise to this level. I can also remember various supporters shouting, at various times, about unforgivable comments, completely beyond the pale.

Soon there will be nobody left in the progressive moment but politicians so caution they never say anything at all, and the voters who refuse to forgive them.

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by: Joel @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 11:24:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Whose Definition Of Progressive? (4.00 / 1)

Barack Obama is no progressive, either, on some of the issues near and dear to a lot of us: health care, Social Security, Medicare. And I'm not convinced of his supposed pro-choice beliefs - because I don't think he's got the credibility on it.

The other thing that really annoys me is continued use of "progressive" - usually meaning the brain trust definition of "progressive." I consider myself progressive, but I also support the work of EMILYs List, mostly because moderate women from ALL parties have a difficult time getting elected.

What's the next plan? Take out EMILYs and replace it with an Obama-like fund for women? Yeah. That'll be rich...

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by: mabelle55 @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:39:55 AM UTC

I really wish (4.00 / 5)

That the Clinton supporters would stop spreading this smear about social security... it seems like they are all very attached to it juding by its frequency in comments, but I don't think there is much basis for it. For example, on page 179 of The Audacity of Hope there is a defense of social security and an explanation of why it should not be privatized.

Since Matt does not support Obama taking over all progressive institutions and has written about it, I don't see why you make that comment either except to troll.

But I agree with you on EMILYs.  There is not a single woman in Congress now from New Jersey.  

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

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by: Hopeful in NJ @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:02:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

a) This has very little to do with Obama (4.00 / 6)

b) On what grounds is Nikki Tinker progressive but Steve Cohen not? He's made one, ONE, very stupid comment. She's barely pro-choice and isn't going to perform very effective pushback against the wingnuts, whereas he's willing to stand up and be counted. More women should be elected, but they shouldn't have to be on the right wings of their party to do that.

Also, you know how paranoid you sound about Obama, right?

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 09:42:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I can't tell if you're trolling or... (4.00 / 1)

...trying to mislead readers of this blog about Obama's positions.

NARAL Pro Choice has endorsed Obama and he has received perfect ranking by all pro-choice groups.

I'm sorry that your candidate has lost the nomination fight... now get over it. If you are the kind of person who will support McCain, feel free to do so but the you don't belong on this blog.

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by: bmozaffari @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 09:47:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Look, this isn't about Clinton/Obama (4.00 / 4)

If a center or center-left male challenged Sheila Jackson Lee or Maxine Waters, then I'd enthusiastically support the incumbents.

I'd rather have a progressive man than a moderate woman, and I'd rather have a progressive woman than a moderate man. That's all this is. Steve Cohen has a perfect record on abortion rights. Nikki Tinker won't be any better on abortion rights in the House than Cohen, and my bet is she'll be worse.  

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by: Scott in NJ @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 12:58:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Suported her in 2006, too (4.00 / 2)

Emily's List was a huge donor for Nikki Tinker in 2006 providing $172,001, their fourth highest total behind Claire McCaskill($327 K),Darcy Burner ($298 k) and Patty Wetterling ($240 K).  They spent $11 million and seemed to play a role in only 3 won by Democrats: McCaskill, Betty Sutton (already a Dem seat) and Yvette Clarke (also an open Dem seat and they spent just $67 K).  

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by: David Kowalski @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:18:07 AM UTC

for years I was a regular monthly donor to EMILY's list (0.00 / 0)

I cut them off after they decided to put a lot of resources into Hillary's campaign. I felt they should be spending their money on women candidates who needed the Early Money that Is Like Yeast.

I have questioned their judgment on other occasions as well.

Steve Cohen is a good progressive, but even good people can sometimes say things that mar their careers. The Glenn Close comment is in that category. I am not surprised that EMILY's list is trying to give him the boot.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

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by: desmoinesdem @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 10:11:35 AM UTC

Except they funded her before the comment. (4.00 / 3)

Emily's list provided

Nikki Tinker in 2006 providing $172,001

as pointed out in the post just above yours.

Women who want medical care not visits from the police will be less than pleased that a progressive was defeated because of anger.

Look it is really hard not to get angry, not to act out of emotion, I close up comment windows I'm typing in when my point on re-read is more heat than light. I understand the anger that is flowing in all directions.

Emily's list is making a mistake, they aren't doing that because of his Cohen's comments because they were in there hammer and tong two years ago trying to unseat him.

This is exposure of a group that is not always an ally. Thats good to know.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 13:06:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

2006 was an open seat (4.00 / 2)

I'm not surprised that they tried to get her through the primary in 2006. I imagine they figured that not having to fight the Ford machine was a price worth paying for a woman candidate who wasn't great on choice.

In 2008, it's a bit weird. There are plenty of places they could compete, but replacing a 100% pro-choice rep with someone less pro-choice, no matter what their gender, does seem a little strange for EMILY's List.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 13:28:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks for that clarification, I feel a little better about Emily's list (0.00 / 0)

But I still think its the wrong move for a number of reasons, but it makes the wrong move a little more understandable.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 22:28:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Is it possible...... (4.00 / 1)

That this is a preview of what is to come in the general for districts all over the country where true progressive candidates will face challenges from the Harold Ford/DLC/Conservative Blue Dog wing of the party as payback for the backing Barack Obama received from the progressive wing of the party?  

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by: irishchicago @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 13:05:53 PM UTC

Probably not (4.00 / 1)

The notion that there is some deep divide between Obama and the blue dogs is the polar opposite of reality.  Barack's politics have always been closer to the DLC than not, from the dawn of his emergence on the national state when the DLC's New Democrats named him one of their "100 to Watch" in 2003, to his  choice of torture-loving Joe Lieberman as mentor in the US Senate, to his current embrace of the failed 46 year embargo of Cuba.

The national significance of the Cohen-Tinker race has nothing whatsoever to do with Obama.  

It is significant because a relatively progressive white guy is running against a black corporate stooge in a black district, and the black corporate stooge not only has a gaggle of local black ministers, the Ford Machine which has had a near stranglehold on the politics of black Memphis, and because her mentor Harold Ford is the very symbol of black corporate whoredom, one of only four members of the Congressional  Black Caucus to have voted for  the war.

This is the same Harold Ford who once claimed his black grandmother, a lady who went to segregated black schools and colleges, and taught in a segregated black school all her professional life, was white, in attempt to cash in on a little of the Obama-style biracial mystique that some of you progressive whites love so much.  And now EMILY's list has weighed in on the side of these moral midgets.  Oh, well.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston

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by: bruce.dixon @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 21:39:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

As an additional note (4.00 / 2)

Tinker doesn't mention whether or not she's pro-choice on the women's issues page on her website.  This is partly because her website doesn't even include a page on women's issues at all.  And there is no mention of choice on the site.  At all.

John McCain

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by: djm84 @ Sat May 31, 2008 at 21:31:39 PM UTC

We have to be careful about the groups we support. (4.00 / 2)

Recently I donated to Steve Cohen. As a 69 year old woman, he's my candidate.
I have stopped giving to the League of Conservation Voters and NARAL because they endorsed Joe Lieberman rather than Ned Lamont. I have stopped belonging to the Sierra Club because it supports establishment officeholders, who often oppose environmental legislation, rather than a progressive newcomer because the Club wants to be safe, to be with a winner.  I have stopped donating to Emily's List because it supports women, who don't deserve support, as in this instance.

I donate to candidates that I believe will support progressive issues but who will also support cleaning up the huge bureaucracy.  Homeland Security, for example, is very fat but incompetent.  Ditto for the Defense Department.  I hope Obama will find people for his administration who honestly and competently will do a lot of clean up  and find existing funds to support needed projects.

I don't think many in Congress know how to pay as you go, but if Obama is attracting conservative republicans, he will need to made government work and make it work efficiently.

As someone who knows how to restore accountability, I hope Obama may be able to use regular people like me to assist the clean up.

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by: cando @ Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 01:12:27 AM UTC

Emily's List and Nikki Tinker vs Cohen (0.00 / 0)

It is hard for me to understand why Emily's List views Nikki Tinker as the best choice in the Tennessee 9th district race. She is weakly pro-choice, if pro-choice at all. It will be interesting to see if in Memphis she will stand up not just for Roe V Wade, but if she will reject all the other restrictions the anti-choice factions try to impose on free choice, such as waiting periods, counseling, parental consent, denial of Federal funding, etc... She has not made a public stand in Memphis on these issues, for to do so would offend the core of her support by the likes of local black Baptist ministers such as Leon "LaSimba" Gray and his ilk who are vehemently against abortions.

Many of these ministers have publicly stated that a Jew and a white can not and should not represent the predominately Christian and black 9th District. What has been Ms Tinker's response to these overtly racist and anti Semitic rants? Nothing!! She sits silently accepting the support of these ministers. Her silence represents a tacit acceptance of these intolerable opinions.

She claims to be pro-labor, but she is a pro-management lawyer. She has been the VP of Labor Relations for the overtly anti-labor Pinnacle Airlines.  The President and Board of Pinnacle Airlines support her campaign while the local Pinnacle ALPA members do not.

She claims to be a Democrat, but the bulk of her local funding comes from a "Who's Who" list of Memphis Republicans. It curious that these ardent Bush supporters would agree with Emily's List

If Emily's List believes Nikki Tinker is the best candidate, one wonders on what this opinion is based. Hopefully Emily's List is not so bigoted as to believe that the qualification that makes her a better candidate than Steve Cohen is her sex. If this is true, Emily's List is no better than the Rev. Wrights and the "LaSimba" Grays

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by: g3 @ Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 05:16:31 AM UTC