Anti-Identity Politics

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 21:17


I want to recycle something I wrote in a comment to an earlier diary today.  I want to try and set a different tone.  And I want to give people something to think about.  I wasn't just saying it to be cute, either.  It has always been the way I see politics.

Some have called me a "race traitor" for it, others have called me a "self-hating Jew."  But I prefer being called a xenophile (also a Xena-phile, but that's a topic for a different diary):

I want to be perfectly clear here.  Given two candidates who are virtually the same on the issues, I will always vote for the one who's not like me if they are from a lower-status group.  I will vote for the woman, not the man. I will vote for the black, not the white.  I will vote for the gay, not the straight.  I will vote for the Moslem, not the Jew.  I will vote for disabled, not the able-bodied.  I will vote for the immigrant, not the native-born.  

But that is assuming that all other things are basically equal.  Because I don't vote for candidates.  I vote for the issues and the people they serve.
Paul Rosenberg :: Anti-Identity Politics

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Anti-Identity Politics | 44 comments
I genuinely love this comment (4.00 / 3)
It expresses something I've long felt, ever since I was first old enough to vote. Thank you for "recycling" this comment.
Couldn't agree more (4.00 / 2)
It is that very thought that tore me between Obama and Edwards when this race began. Edwards was saying more of the things I wanted to hear, but Obama had appealing rhetoric as well - and he was black!

Not black even - mixed race with a mixed background. An even better deal, from my bleeding-heart point of view! It's the same feeling that makes me love that my federal representation is entirely female (Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi).

But Clinton, as a female, never triggered my "lower status" empathies. I believe this was the case because I could never stop believing that Hillary Clinton was another Kerry/Clinton/Gore. She appeared as just another career politician who had embedded themselves so deeply in the established order that they were incapable of taking actions that would disrupt or threaten that order.
As her campaign went on that feeling started to change, in part because her campaign became an underdog campaign and she started looking more like a struggling woman and less like a DLC clone.

And let me add that, as a young male, I have a hard time empathizing with women in general. I was raised by my mother and grandmother. Virtually all of my bosses have been and are female. My teachers, both in K-12 and university, have been overwhelmingly female. Maybe I am a victim of my age, but growing up in the 80's and 90's I was given constant opportunities to experience women in positions of power. Perhaps it has been these life experiences that dulled my empathy towards the Clinton campaign.

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

Well.... (4.00 / 2)
You have to look beyond your own personal experience and look at institutional and structural inequalities.  Since we have never had a woman President, and women are still only a small percentage in Congress, I would say the underdog status is still there for women.  With that said, though, I did also notice a difference when I worked on the Hill with young men.  I was 41 at the time and came of age when there were not so many women in positions of political power.  I did notice that the men 15 or years younger than me seemed completely used to having female bosses, women COS, etc and there was a different tone to meetings with them than with older men.  It was interesting and made me feel like the women's movement had accomplished some real things.  
[ Parent ]
Progress, but still work to do (0.00 / 0)
I agree with you that the playing field is not yet equal. Not by a long way.

But the discrimination is more subtle and there are more women in positions of authority (although generally not the top position) so it's harder to mobilise support. Intellectually, young men are still aware of this discrimination but far fewer of us have seen it in blatant action compared to previous generations.

Much like it's no longer acceptable to use racial discriminatory language but racial discrimination remains alive, I think the better disguised bits of sexism in our society are going to be much harder to stamp out.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
This Is One Reason For A Dignitarian Approach (4.00 / 1)
Making it a socially sanctioned positive value to treat everyone with dignity and respect creates a positive counterforce against the more subtley ingrained assumptions and prejudices.

I plan to go into this more in a diary next weekend.  I already started it in response to the discussion of Pamela's diary.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
asdf (4.00 / 3)
It's really sad because it seems that any American Jew speaking in public who doesn't bow down to the most hawkish Israeli policies gets slammed as "self hating". And it's also really sad because there's much more open policy debate in Israel than there is in this country. And that causes all kinds of problems for everybody, everywhere.

The media love to play identity politics. As long as they can just box people into convenient, easy to swallow groups, they don't have to do any investigative journalism. What made my head spin the most this primary season was that the media put all Black people into either the Clinton or Obama camps. Not only did they never interview any Black people supporting other candidates such as Kucinich or Edwards (and there were a lot of us), they did not even acknowledge the POSSIBILITY OF OUR EXISTENCE. You could chalk us right up there with the Loch Ness monster, for all the media cared to know or report.

And then to add insult to injury, once it was down to Clinton and Obama, and long after the Clintons had really pissed off most Black folks, the media spin was that 90% of Black people were supporting Obama only because he is Black. This caused a huge backlash about how racist and stupid Black people are.  

Well, It's So Ludicrous, It's Just Over The Top (4.00 / 2)
I just have to laugh.  Some insults just don't work on some people, and that's certainly the case with me.

I remember the first time I was called a n$gger-lover, and I was just baffled by it.  The poor kid who called me that was an obviously way out of place Appalachian refuge (we're talking Northern California here) and I just really felt sorry for him, so lost in the world that his hand-me-down hatred was virtually all he had left to cling to.  I wanted to say, "That's okay, you don't have to hate them.  You don't have to hate anyone."  But I knew it could never be that simple for him.

As for the media invisibility of blacks supporting other candidates, like Edwars or Kucinich, I sort of see it as yet another case of blacks getting pneumonia when whites get a cold.  Cold comfort, I know, but the media was just despicable all the way around, so of course it was much worse for blacks, coming AND going.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I'm with you all the way (4.00 / 2)
I taught my children the same thing about race and choosing a mate. If all things were equal, I told my daughter, I preferred she chose the one of another race. And she did. And I not only have a wonderful son-in-law but a super beautiful biracial grandson. Of course, he's not really biracial. He's a member of the human race.
matchups (4.00 / 3)
What if the race is between a gay black woman and a disabled Muslim immigrant? All else being equal, of course. ;)

Seriously, though, I'll cop to a preference for underdogs as well. In a weird way that's why I was so sympathetic to Hillary post-Iowa. She had lost her frontrunner advantage, the media was brutalizing her (as usual), and she was up against a way cooler politician. My particular soft spot is supporting the uncool against the cool. And there's (virtually) nobody less cool than Hillary, and nobody cooler than Barack. Honestly, I think that's as big a factor in his victory as Hillary's war vote. Barack makes people feel cooler just by allowing them to support him, which I always sort of resented.

Resentments aside, it'll be pretty cool if that trick still works in November.

I Think Thumb Wrestling Would Have To Be In Order (0.00 / 0)
What if the race is between a gay black woman and a disabled Muslim immigrant? All else being equal, of course. ;)

Though I could be mistaken.  I've heard some people claim it's tiddley-winks.

And you're certainly right about the coolness factor.  I also felt much more sympathetic to Clinton after she lost Iowa than I ever expected to feel.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
naturally, except.... (4.00 / 1)
....the Muslim immigrant's disability in this case is a congenital thumb condition, which I believe automatically triggers a tiddley-wink bypass and proceeds directly to a staring contest in which the candidate who stares the shortest amount of time wins. And then, of course, Hillary destroys the party.
[ Parent ]
Tiddlywinks is for agents of imperialism (0.00 / 0)
Stick to the thumb wrestling.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog
[ Parent ]
Things Change (0.00 / 0)
Tiddlywinks is for agents of imperialism

So was soccer, once upon a time.

Appropriation is everywhere.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
race (0.00 / 0)
Barack makes people feel cooler just by allowing them to support him, which I always sort of resented.

I'm pretty sure that you could substitute "racially enlightened" for "cooler" here and it would be just as true.  But I'm not really worried because his message is accompanied by some optimism and openness and some faith that people can move forward--the zeitgeist is good :)

It's a serious question (4.00 / 1)
I am a white male. In the beginning of this primary, I supported Edwards because I thought he was the more progressive candidate of the top three. But, I also felt a lot of guilt. Once I got to know Obama, and Edwards dropped out, it was easy to shift to supporting him. Hillary lost me, on content, a long time ago and it has nothing to do with gender.

I too am a xenophile and I don't trust homogeneity in any social group because it suggests either bigotry or, at best, small-mindedness. In broader terms, homogeneity is not a sign of a healthy modern society--in my opinion.

I am also competitive. But the idea of competing in a small field of sanctioned insiders seems almost like cheating-nothing to be proud of. It amazes me to think that talented politicans like Obama and Clinton would not have even been in the running in the recent past. This primary made me really happy in this regard.

As for Xena-phile? Not so much, although I can understand.

How Can You NOT Go For The Corny Jokes? (4.00 / 1)
And poor, hapless Joxer?

Defintely not up to Buffy standards, but what else is?

Actually, although white, Edwards was more of an other to me.  Southern white dude.  Mostly they give me the creeps.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Actually, (0.00 / 0)
 I'm a Dr. Who fan--because of the diversity of course.
[ Parent ]
Toooo Slooooow (0.00 / 0)
Ruby, The Galactic Gumshoe.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
Are you sure you're not a XXXenophile, too? (4.00 / 1)
In addition to being a xenophile and a Xena-phile, one can be a XXXenophile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xxxenophile).  Just sayin'.  I'll go away now.
ROFL (4.00 / 1)
Dunno whether to trollrate or uprate.  Made me laugh out loud for real.  Could use a NSFW tag though.
[ Parent ]
Fair enough. (0.00 / 0)
I saw no nudity in the Wikipedia article, so I figured it was reasonable safe.  I actually own a couple of these books, and they're really quite great.  They're gleeful and fun, not disturbing and dirty like a lot of this sort of thing.  I'll stop now, because this is way, way off-topic.
[ Parent ]
Topic? (0.00 / 0)
Was there a topic?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
OK, everybody can laugh at me now (4.00 / 2)
I'm so out of the loop on this sort of thing, when I saw the word "XXXenophile", my brain just interpreted it as someone who was a super, duper, Xenophile.

Don't worry. The subsequent comments caused me to go to that wiki page, so now I have a clue.


Foglio's general emphasis throughout is on the enjoyment of sexuality as healthy and natural.

Sounds good to me. But then again, as someone who's voting for the Democratic candidate, I lack "values".

[ Parent ]
Well, I Thought The Same Thing, First Time I Saw It (4.00 / 1)
Of course, that wasn't today.  But, just goes to show, what they say about great minds.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
Off-topic? This is the internet! (4.00 / 1)
Nah it wasn't anything too bad, but I'm sure some people have some tightwad bosses who'd flip on seeing something that "dirty".

Made me laugh, I was kidding about the trollrating :)

[ Parent ]
I LOL'd when I clicked on Paul's Xena link (4.00 / 2)
You know how Wiki will have notes at the top of the article saying things like "This article lacks references" or "This article needs cleaning up"? Well, you click on Xena, and the first thing you see is:

This article or section has multiple issues.

For some reason that just struck me as really comical. I guess because my experience with SciFi/Fantasy people is that they are so geeked on the details and trivia, I never imagined the Xena wiki article would not be tight as a drum.

Get on it, Paul!  

[ Parent ]
Sci-fi fans (4.00 / 1)
While there are a lot of sci-fi/fantasy fans who will hang on to every trivial minutia, the writers of the original text almost inevitably will create something that is trivially inconsistent with a previous event.  Every time, of course, there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth, but also, choosing what to reject can lead to further inconsistency, leading to often confusing fan writings.
[ Parent ]
Me, I Just Loves Me DS9 Messing With Klingon Anatomy! (4.00 / 4)
In Trials and Tribble-ations, naturally:

Between the original episode and DS9, the appearance of Klingons had changed radically (their design had originally been altered for Star Trek: The Motion Picture). When Bashir and O'Brien ask Worf why 23rd Century Klingons look so different he will only tell them "They ARE Klingons. And it is a long story." Bashir and O'Brien ponder possible causes, genetic engineering and mutated virus; both of which were later shown to be the cause in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Affliction". Worf stops discussion by saying "We do NOT discuss it with outsiders". Contained in the 'Special Features' of the region 2 box set of DS9 season 5, the producers are seen to comment that the joke at the Klingons' expense was as much for plausibility's sake as for the purpose of humour, claiming "any explanation we could come up with would have been ridiculous!"[citation needed]


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
Seems a bit extreme and overly formulaic (0.00 / 0)
but its at least a worthwhile consideration.  I won't deny that a large portion of my motivation for supporting Obama had to do with his african-american identity.

The Politics of Bruno S.

Feels almost like identity fetishism (0.00 / 0)
This reminds me of men who are attracted to "exotic" women, black men who are attracted to white women, white men who are attracted to Asian women.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
Not Exactly (4.00 / 2)
It's just that democracy works better when all voices are heard, and those voices are the ones least likely to be heard.

Depressingly logical and non-erotic.

Spock would understand.

Kirk was the one with the hots for every species over the Sun.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I'm tempted to say something snarky about slash fanfic (0.00 / 0)
But the last time I did, I got attacked by  a bunch of angry feminists.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
[ Parent ]
Making The Same Mistake Twice (4.00 / 1)
would not be logical.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
It's been a tough few months (4.00 / 1)
God, people are really blowing off angst tonight. This is almost like an Eschaton comment thread.
Not a bad compass (4.00 / 1)
to navigate by in terms of life in general. I've pretty much always identified with the underdog, and this tends to be reflected in my voting patterns as well.

I'm a 50 year old white male who would absolutely love to see a woman elected President. And I think this country might have a fighting chance to survive the next 50 years if the makeup of Congress was 50% female.  

However, in the case of this particular election I couldn't really get behind Hillary for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with her gender.

I was also a little behind the curve with Obama because I initially didn't know much about him, plus I was quite concerned about his electability.

To my mind Al Gore seemed like the obvious sure-bet to sweep the current gang of inept criminals out of power, and electability seemed absolutely imperative, given the massive scale at which Bush and his NeoCon cabal have fucked things up.  We simply can't afford 4 more years of the disaster that "conservativism" has devolved into.

My allegiance turned to Edwards until some younger friends convinced me about Obama, and I soon became very (very) confident in his intelligence and political abilities. Obviously, he's an extraordinary candidate, and if elected we'll have an opportunity to redefine how the United States sees itself and how the rest of the world sees us.  

I agree completely (0.00 / 0)
Of course, that's basically what a liberal is, isn't it?


... (0.00 / 0)
Isn't that what they call voting with your gut?  Of course each of our guts are defined individually, and you'll see all kinds of tags being applied to what you describe, but it boils down to emotion or gut.

In this election, I was very attracted to Obama long ago because of his youth and outside DC status.  I'm old, white, female and should have been in the Clintons wheelhouse.  I felt a new and different than me generation needed the chance to fix the mess that my generation has made of our politic.
 

No, It's Not--Please Read More Carefully (0.00 / 0)
It's NOT a gut vote.  It's a tie-breaker:

Given two candidates who are virtually the same on the issues,

Got it?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
... (0.00 / 0)
Well, I had given you and anyone else reading this the benefit of the doubt that we were talking about even playing field candidates.  

I can see where nits could be picked if we who take the time to read wonkish progressive blogs were willing to vote for the candidate they'd like to have a beer with, but I doubt there are very many of them in this room.

Whatever.  I still think it's an emotional gut reaction that gives us the parameters of our individual tie breakers.  Regardless, it's not a big deal how I define it.

[ Parent ]
Pretty Good Strategy (4.00 / 1)
Throw in a large dollop of anti-incumbency (except for Senators that I like) and a tendency to go for the real underdogs, the Alternative Party Candidates, and that's how I vote.  Plus, the give us a large open space for every race on every ballot.  Its like begging for write-ins.  Every single un-opposed judge gets opposition on that ballot, for sure.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

Anti-Identity Politics = Affirmative Action? (4.00 / 3)
It sounds simple to me - Paul's post is affirmative action on a personal level. If you feel all other qualifications are (approximately) equal, give the candidate from the (more) oppressed group your vote.
thats ridiculous (0.00 / 0)
there is never "basically equal"....the candidate brings a whole host of intangibles that have nothing to do with issues...leadership qualities, foresight, judgement, it is too nuanced to make such a hypothetical....

I will always vote for the candidate, for the candidate, and if that candidate is of a different race, gender, orientation, etc. then wonderful.

For all intents and purposes, everybody said that Clinton and Obama were very close on all of the issues, even in healthcare, they were more similar than different...yet, there was no question, whom i supported and it had nothing to do with race or gender...Obama is a superior candidate based on a number of intangibles and no two candidates will ever be "basically equal" even if on issues they appear to be....

an absurd statement....i first supported Edwards because of what he brought to the table...after switching to Obama, i realized he was even better than Edwards after i really examined him, but none of it ever had to do with race or gender...but yes, what a historical and amazing moment it will be whne he is sworn in as the first African American president who is also THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE PERIOD.

Projection Run Rampant (4.00 / 1)
Three things:

(1)

there is never "basically equal"....the candidate brings a whole host of intangibles that have nothing to do with issues...leadership qualities, foresight, judgement, it is too nuanced to make such a hypothetical....

You should wrap your sophistication around the mathematical concept of an equivalence class.  There are all sorts of them, each generated by a different equivalence relation.  Just because someone else uses a different equivalence relation to view the world than you do, that does not make them "ridiculous."  That just makes them different.  You seem to have a pretty low tolerance for difference.  I consciously chose a mechanism for increasing my tolerance.  That would seem to be a primary difference between us.

(1)

THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE PERIOD.

is probably the most commonly heard rationale of independent voters who switch back and forth between parties.  They, too, have a similar disdain for issues, and vote incoherently overall.  It's also a way that people often vote their prejudices, since it's an empirical fact that people in general are always more likely to recognize the qualifications of those more like themselves.  And, finally, it's also yelling for no good reason--except for the inner knowledge that your argument is lame.

(3) Projection much?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Food for thought (4.00 / 1)
I never framed it this way, but it is mostly what I do in practice.  I am glad for your laying out the frame.

I found myself confounded by the strength of the identity politics of so many friends in this election, which led them to Hillary.  I have never understood the 'vote for the best person' in a vacuum thing.  There are no vacuums.  Candidates come with apparatuses of often strangulatory natures.

In this race, I never experienced the virtual equivalency on the issues, maybe because on my biggest issues I never believed the woman would restore enough of the Constitution, or support net neutrality, or get us beyond the DLC loser kind of politics for the Democratic Party.

If Edwards had had a chance (and of course in restrospect this is pie in the sky, he just wasn't reading the zeitgeist), I probably would gladly have continued supporting the white guy.  Hard to know.

I guess that could be my limit to the idea expressed by Paul. But most of the time I too will vote for the one barging in and up.  And it all came together in this race that the one who in the end had my back more than the others was the skinny black guy from Chicago (and Kansas and Indonesia and Hawaii).  

(me-white, older woman)

Anti-Identity Politics | 44 comments
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