Obama's Economics Platform: A Mashup of Freakonomics and Robert Rubin

by: Matt Stoller

Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 18:45


"He's going to raise taxes on those wealthy lobbyists that work for the McCain campaign," Obama's communications director Robert Gibbs, in a jab at Fox News

I just got done reading Obama's  speech on the economy.  I've tried to distill it into the essence of what he's proposing, and go over his economic philosophy which is split between a neoliberal Rubin-type policy tone and an embrace of behavioral economics, a new school of thought popularized by books like The Tipping Point, Freakonomics and Predictably Irrational.  You're not going to see the Naomi Klein critique of disaster capitalism in his policy team.

Matt Stoller :: Obama's Economics Platform: A Mashup of Freakonomics and Robert Rubin
Long-Term Strategies

End the War in Iraq and Invest in Infrastructure Here: "Instead of spending twelve billion dollars a month to rebuild Iraq, I think it's time we invested in our roads and schools and bridges and started to rebuild America."

Improve Science Education and Prepare Us for Jobs of the 21st Century: "It's an agenda that will require us first and foremost to train and educate our workforce with the skills necessary to compete in a knowledge-based economy."

Create Real Special Interest-free Free Trade: "We do the cause of free-trade - a cause I believe in - no good when we pass trade agreements that hand out favors to special interests and do little to help workers who have to watch their factories close down."

Make the Tax Code Simpler and More Progressive: "I'll shut down the corporate loopholes and tax havens, and I'll use the money to help pay for a middle-class tax cut that will provide $1,000 of relief to 95% of workers and their families. I'll make oil companies like Exxon pay a tax on their windfall profits, and we'll use the money to help families pay for their skyrocketing energy costs and other bills. We'll also eliminate income taxes for any retiree making less than $50,000 per year, because every senior deserves to live out their life in dignity and respect."

Short-Term Strategies

Increase the Stimulus::  He wants to put $50B in the hands of families in addition to the checks we received in May, and extend unemployment insurance.

Increase Transparency in Mortgage Markets and Offer Relief to Homeowners:  Obama is promising to "crack down on mortgage fraund", "$10 billion Foreclosure Prevention Fund", and offer "a tax credit to low- and middle-income Americans that would cover ten percent of their mortgage interest payment every year."  

Offer Congressional Health Plans to Every American: "We will give every American the chance to get the same kind of health care that Members of Congress give themselves. We'll bring down premiums by $2500 for the typical family, and we'll prevent insurance companies from discriminating against those who need care most."

Enact Pay as You Go Budgeting: "Now, contrary to what John McCain may say, every single proposal that I've made in this campaign is paid for - because I believe in pay-as-you-go."

Reform Bankruptcy Laws and Implement a Credit Card Bill of Rights: "And we'll establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights that will ban unilateral changes to credit card agreements; ban rate hikes on debt you already had; and ban interest charges on late fees. Americans need to pay what they owe, but you should pay what's fair, not just what fattens profits for some credit card company and they can get away with."

Analysis

The central challenge of his strategy is that while he believes that we are undergoing a fundamental structural shift in our global economy, the changes he is proposing, with the exception of health care, are somewhat small-bore.  This makes sense when you examine his economic team in a bit more detail.  The big news on that front is that Hamilton Project denizen and neoliberal economist Jason Furman is Obama's newest economic advisor.  Steve Clemons a noted, "To some degree, Furman manifests the interests and perspective of perhaps the leading neoliberal force in politics today, Robert Rubin."  Furman is not Rubin, but Clemons thinks that he is "an essential spear-carrier of Rubinomics."

Furman's his defense of Walmart as a 'progressive success story' provides an element of caution to the good news about Obama's strength as a candidate.  I am not ringing alarm bells about Obama as a NAFTA loving centrist, or suggesting that Furman is a bad choice for an advisor.  I know and like Austan Goolsbee, and Furman is probably a highly intelligent and open-minded policy advocate.  Additionally, the economic debates have moved far beyond that, and he's likely to pull as much of his policy ideas from Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler's Nudge with its behavioral economics frame of 'choice architecture', or 'libertarian paternalism' in which the government gently slopes the choices we face in ways that are good for us, without banning bad choices outright.  Opt-in, opt-out, and default choices, for instance, are significant and substantial forces in governing our society, and my guess is that Obama believes strongly in making small adjustments for big impacts.

In his discussion of McCain's policy impetus, Obama offers a contradiction on global warming.  Here he is in the speech.

[McCain] can also legitimately tout moments of independence from his party, and on some issues, such as earmark reform and climate change, he and I share goals, even if we may differ on how to get there.

Yet here is Obama in his pep rally to staffers.

"Those of you who are concerned about global warming, I don't care what [McCain] says he is not going to push that agenda hard."

I happen to agree with the latter and not the former, but there is a basic inconsistency that flows through Obama's policy choices, one that is perhaps inevitable.  Paul Krugman notes that the American citizen consumes about a thousand gallons of oil a year, and it is quite clear that the price is going to continue spiking unless the massive printing of money going on at the Fed stops (something the Cunning Realist is harping on incessantly).  That means a nasty recession and a different development pattern in which cheap energy is no longer the law of the land.

Frighteningly, in fact, if we are at peak oil, which means an abrupt transition to a different energy source, the Bush Energy Department in 2005 laid out the grim possibilities.  Here's the assessment: "The world has never faced a problem like this. Without massive mitigation more than a decade before the fact, the problem will be pervasive and will not be temporary. Previous energy transitions (wood to coal and coal to oil) were gradual and evolutionary; oil peaking will be abrupt and revolutionary."

Obama knows this; in one of his only diaries on Dailykos, back in 2005, he made this statement. "Unless we are open to new ideas, and not just new packaging, we won't change enough hearts and minds to initiate a serious energy or fiscal policy that calls for serious sacrifice."

Today we got a set of small bore policy ideas that hint at a more transformational set of choices we have to make.  It would be foolish for any politician to say that in his administration we will have a nasty recession upfront, that gas prices aren't going to come down, and that lots of people are going to suffer from a transition to a new energy system.  He's just arguing for change, which is the right argument.  FDR did not call for a New Deal until the Convention, and ran on the gold standard and balancing the budget.

As Obama moves forward, it's worth noting where he is, having adopted a standard set of mainstream Democratic economic policy ideas, so that we can see where he goes.


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behavioral economics is (4.00 / 3)
the not quite so autistic wing of the chicago school. :)

actuall,y that's a bit harsh but somewhat true.

end the blurring--vote steve novick for u.s. senate in oregon


peak oil (0.00 / 0)
Note that Shale oil (the most expensive feasable oil) is pumped at 70 dollars a gallon.

The current spike is temporary but as demand increases and price controls still exist you should expect more spikes.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


Not feasible in the near future. (4.00 / 1)
There is no large scale extraction of oil shale going on right now. What is a huge shale operation that could maybe supply 5% of the current need coming online in 10 years, which is what it would take to construct, help if we're peaking now.

[ Parent ]
The point is that it is increased demand (0.00 / 0)
Not peak oil.

Peak oil being the more dire situation.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


[ Parent ]
It depends on how you define peak oil (4.00 / 1)
Some define it as the point at which demand growth begins to outpace supply glowth, leading to a rapid (and ultimately irreversible, on a year-on-year basis) run-up in prices. That's a threshhold we have almost certainly passed.

The thing about shale oil (and tar sands and other less conventional forms) is that, yes, it becomes cost-effective once the price of crude goes high enough. But, of course, it's the supply shortfalls that are leading to the price run-up in the first place. In other wordes, it's the short supply of higher quality oil that causes us to have to turn to shale oil, etc. (As Al Gore likes to say, a junky will shoot up between his toes when he's run out of veins.)

So have we passed the point when oil production has peaked? Probably not, though we may be quite close. Then again, according to this article, net oil exports have likely peaked already (as consumption is growing phenomenally quickly in the (increasingly phenomenally rich) oil-producing nations). Regardless, I would bet you a lot of money that average oil prices will go up every single year of the next president's term. It's going to be a really big problem.


[ Parent ]
Oil Sands (4.00 / 1)
Isn't the US getting large volumes of oil now from oil sand operations in Alberta?  Is this different from shale?

I've been trying to study up on this issue.  I'm under the impression that here in Washington State and Oregon most of our petroleum products are coming from operations in Alberta over the Transmountain pipeline.  There are four refineries near the Canadian border where gasoline and other fuel products are cooked and then sent south, again by pipe as far as Eugene OR.  Similar pipes run south toward Denver and southeast toward Chicago.

My understanding is that the Alberta deposits make it the second largest known source outside Saudi Arabia.  I'd love to learn more about this infrastructure.  With the recent price spikes it seems likely that Canada has recently exploded in wealth relative to the US.  Yes?

If there is a good web source for this stuff please point the way. . .

The everyday people of the whole earth are ready to run the sphere in peace.


[ Parent ]
I point thisaway: (4.00 / 1)
I'm not sure about the infrastructure, per se. But here's what Professor Charles Hall of the SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry, who I am assuming is a smart man, has to say about the overall viability of Canadian tar sands:

In conclusion, tar sands are an economically and energetically viable, although hardly ideal, approach to maintaining liquid fuel supplies. The most severe problem is probably their local and global environmental impact, and they are already impacting Canadian CO2 releases significantly. But the tar sands are unlikely to make a large impact on overall supply of liquid fuels because their supply is likely to be rate, rather than total resource limited. If the maximum rate were to grow to about 2 billion barrels a year this would approximately meet Canada's demand and could leave relatively little for export if Canada's production of conventional oil continues to decline. Achieving even this rate of production from tar sands is uncertain because of growing concerns about environmental impacts downstream and insufficient hydrogen and water.

So you can see, there are some serious limitations and drawbacks to the stuff. That website, theoildrum.com, is loaded with this kind of information, by the way.


[ Parent ]
gibbs (4.00 / 1)
Robert Gibbs should be more careful. Fox News might misinterpret his jab as a terrorist fist jab.

Just curious (4.00 / 1)
Are there any specific "large bore" economic reforms or policies you would like to see Obama adopting other than those specifically related to peak oil?

Progressive capital gains tax. (4.00 / 4)
Carbon tax.

Reduce military budget.

Huge investment in public transportation.

Massive investment in clean renewable energy.


miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
one more: (4.00 / 4)
Putting the parasitic health insurance industry out of business and out of our misery.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
One more again: (4.00 / 2)
Raise top marginal tax rates significantly. (something around 50%)

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Policy suggestions... (4.00 / 1)
1.  A carbon tax that offsets income taxes.  The money is dedicated to implementing the suggestions of the Apollo Alliance.
2.  Change the income tax to a progressive flat tax with no deductions, no credits, and no exemptions.  Treat all income equally, including income from municipal bonds and other currently tax-free investments.  (Since roughly half of all income is not subject to taxes, this will greatly increase the revenue base, and allow for much lower rates.)  Establish a floor income, below which no taxes are paid.  With a simplified tax structure, greatly increase the number of auditors to collect some the hundreds of billions in back-owed taxes.  Use the money collected to pay off the debt.  Lowering the debt lowers interest payments on the debt, roughly 300 billion dollars per year.
3.  If we want to encourage investment, make the first $5,000 of non-wage income tax-free.  This gives everyone the opportunity to benefit from their investments, not just the wealthy.
4.  Means-test all government programs.  We really need to get the rich off of welfare, whether they are agribusiness giants such as Archer Daniels Midland or wealthy individuals like Ted Turner, Bruce Willis, etc.
5.  Eliminate most of the Cold-War weapons systems, such as the Virginia-class submarine, the F-22, etc.  Offer early retirement to reduce the officer corps in the military.  (The U.S. has one of the highest ratios of officers to enlisted personnel in the world.)  Many of these officers are just waiting for their pensions to become fully vested and are effectively "bloatware".  Send them out into the real world and force them to become productive workers for a change.
6.  Eliminate all government programs that primarily benefit Fortune 1000 companies.  If these business giants can't live without a government handout, let them fail.
7.  Consider converting Social Security to a PERS-type pension system.  Invest the money in "green" technologies that are being developed by American companies.  This eliminates the Wall Street blood-suckers, implements professional management that is transparent to the public, frees individuals from having to navigate the investment morass, eliminates the deficit-cloaking nature of the current Social Security "fund", and invests in American companies, preferably smaller companies.
8.  Issue pardons for all non-violent drug offenders currently serving in Federal prisons.  Establish and fund treatment programs for drug offenders.
9.  Triple the size of the "white-collar crime" investigation units of the Justice Department and FBI and start prosecuting white-collar criminals.  Throw the book at the bastards.
10. Change the corporate tax code to greatly reduce write-offs, deductions, credits, etc.  (One of the reasons why alternative energy hasn't caught on in America is that the oil, gas, coal, and nuclear industries enjoy incredible tax advantages.)  Increase the revenue base and lower the rates.
11. There are now technologies (developed by the University of Hawaii) that allow for the much more efficient conversion of organic material to "charcoal".  Use this technology to convert organic material left over from excessive logging on public lands into charcoal.  Sell this charcoal to electric utilities to offset coal.  This will drastically reduce the fire hazards on public lands and greatly reduce greenhouse gas emissions.  (Coal burning adds to atmospheric carbon; charcoal burning recycles atmospheric carbon.)

[ Parent ]
Thanks Matt as to details this is good analysis (4.00 / 5)
I also agree however with your closing paragraphs, and possibly the point of your post:
He's just arguing for change, which is the right argument.  FDR did not call for a New Deal until the Convention, and ran on the gold standard and balancing the budget.

As Obama moves forward, it's worth noting where he is, having adopted a standard set of mainstream Democratic economic policy ideas, so that we can see where he goes.

What is pointed about this speech is the tone and the directness of the attack not just on the "most fiscally irresponsible" administration, but of the beneficiaries of that irresponsible governance, giant corporations.

Breaking up monopoly power, coercive market power, is not Chicago nor is it Goolsbee. It is not possible to talk about the fact that the solutions we need to our many problems are behind, are hidden by, market controlling, politics controlling, media controlling, profit making behemoths. Just restoring competition generally is revolutionary, in the same way that

Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act.

I have a more critical analysis of market power in areas of the economy that must be responsible to the people: firefighting, schools, armed forces, jails, healthcare and the like. I am sure most progressives do. Just breaking the 'stranglehold on democracy' is revolutionary, just John Stuart Mills is revolutionary in times of corporatism.

The sizes of the problems we face: oil, energy, climate, peace, re-establishing democracy - is humbling enough. To add to that the promises of America hidden and destroyed by the Republican Counter Reformation, Roosevelt's Four Freedoms for example, we need to commit more deeply, to our actions, our study, our investigations, our solidarity and I hope our sense of humour.

And BTW thanks adamterando for the video link to Obama's speech.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


Barely Off the Total Fantasy Terrain (4.00 / 6)
The advisors Obama has are perhaps best described as center-right.  Beyond them lie the vast landscapes of total cuckoohood, which have largely dominated since Bush Sr. decided, "What the heck, you only live once," and embraced the heck out of voodoo economics.

I understand the political rationale, of course.  But the analogy to FDR is somewhat off, as we really had no understanding of macro-economics at the time.

We're still pretty far from where we'd like to be, but it's pretty darned clear that something like Jacob Hacker's analysis in The Great Risk Shift will be necessary as a bare miniumum to ensure that we can pull ourselves out of the condition of perpetual insecurity that Americans have come to take for granted since the arrival of voodooists.  And that's pretty much the most conservative approach that can possibly help save our bacon.

p.s. Conceptually, behavioral economics could be part of a great leap forward.  Robert Kuttner drew on it considerably in his 1990s book, Everything For Sale.  But he did so to show that conventional neoclassical economics is based on fantasy assumptions that simply aren't true, thus disabling some of the knee-jerk attacks on progressive economics.

Obama and his brand of behavioralists have accepted the validity of many such attacks on progressive economics, even as they've conceptually attacked the very foundations of these same attacks.  Things could get very interesting in the years ahead if we can get some intellectual trench warfare going online and really educate folks about the intellectual terrain, and the pragmatic, as well as moral, consequences involved.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I work in the financial markets (4.00 / 6)
and I know a fair amount about globalization.  

On the issue of globalization it really is Neo-Classical economics uber alles.  I have spent significant time researching the issue, and if there is an overall framework that can explain how to make globalization work for those in the bottom 80% of the economy I haven't seen it.

In fact, I put Stieglitz's book down and came away even more depressed than when I began.

The missing link which other countries realize and we do not is the connection between technology and wealth.  As we see American Firms in industry after industry fall behind, we are actually setting ourselves up to lose our Intellectual Capital.  The Chinese, the Japanese and the Taiwanese don't believe in laissez faire.  They see wealth flows from intellectual capital, and are willing to intervene in the market if necessary to ensure that their firms survive.

Here in the US we remain oblivious, while Airbus eats into Boeing's share and GM and Ford prepare to exit the auto business.  And we are too stupid to learn from the only smart decision Caspar Wienberger ever made. I often hear free market types talk about Intel as a shining example of free enterprise.  To bad they don't know that the Department of Defense stepped in to prevent the acquisition of Intel by the Japanese in the mid 80's.  

 


[ Parent ]
The Formula To Make Globalization Work: Universal Welfare State (4.00 / 3)
When Bretton Woods was put into place, national welfare states were assumed as part of the framework.  As long as "globalization" meant promoting trade within that framework, things could work fine.  But, as the overthrows of Mosadeq in Iran and Arbenz in Guatemala soon showed, that was not something that even the more liberal Eisenhower Republicans could stomach, and after that the Dems agreed, so it was only a matter of time until the whole system came undone.

Future generations will look back and say, "How could they be so stupid?  They got through the Great Depression, they had all the intellectual tools they needed to get by, and instead they spent the next three generations destroying the wealthiest civilization ever seen to that point.  It just makes no sense."

The answer, of course, is that it just felt so good to listen to madmen, and to project our hedonistic idiocy onto others:  It was the welfare moms what done it!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
a possible problem is (4.00 / 1)
that many countries don't have the capital accumulated to create a welfare state (Sri Lanka tried it and the failure to generate growth was a factor in the development of its civil war).  So you'd have to figure out how to help countries do this (which probably means letting them industrialize instead of forcing them to accept Bretton Woods prescriptions) or how to redistribute resources across national boundaries from wealthy countries to poor countries (which doesn't seem imaginable to me).

But it's not a particularly happy scenario either way :(  global poverty is real.


[ Parent ]
They can industrialize all they want... (4.00 / 1)
they just shouldn't be allowed to sell it here without taxes/tariffs - just like the developing nations impose on us.   I guess I'm just a simpleton who thinks my own survival is more important than yours - IF you turn it into that.  If you would like to volunteer to sacrifice "yourself", I don't mind a bit.  


They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
i don't think you're a simpleton at all (0.00 / 0)
i think the anger and economic issues that the american working class face are real.  I just don't think you're as vulnerable as poor people in most of the developing world.  hope you'll accept respectful disagreement based on different perspectives.

[ Parent ]
I can accept it, but can the long lines of (0.00 / 0)
devasted Americans applying for welfare benefits accept it.  You have no idea what is happening to people in this country.  People who prided themselves for their success are now losing their homes.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
to be honest, (0.00 / 0)
i hope that you take your fury and do something great with it.  it's good when people are angry about things that matter to them when they're getting f@#cked over.  it's good if they're workers.  it's good if they're lgbt.  It's good if they're women.  it's good if they're black.  it's good if they're latino.

the only trick is to make sure you become cesar chavez instead of lou dobbs :)


[ Parent ]
Global Wealth Is Real, Too (0.00 / 0)
Big picture first:

Daniel De Groot recently posted a video of Raymond Kurzweil talking about the exponential growth of technology across a wide range of fields.  One consequence of this growth--something we routinely take for granted--is that things that were once impossibly expensive (not to mention things that were simply impossible) are now relatively cheap.

Mobile phones, for example.  I knew folks who had a videophone back in the late 1980s.  They did art events with it, connecting to art spaces in Europe.  It was quite cool really, back in the Stone Age, getting an initial glimpes of what an actually globally self-conscious world could be.

But the phone they had had been commercially abandoned.  No amount of money in the world could have enabled a billionaire to get one for his kids so that he could keep track of them the way that tens, maybe hundreds of millions of parents do today with their kids.

Point is, the cherished rightwing notion that business is responsible for creating wealth is sheer bullshit.  Business has a part in it, of course, as does labor, as does nature, as does human invention.  And the fantasy that business alone is responsible for wealth-creation is one of the most deeply destructive fantasies of all time.

This fantasy has been used to justify enormous wealth transfers to business over the course of centuries, and the systematic impoverishment of all else.  What is needed is a forthright rejection of this fantasy, and the recognition of the need to sustain all the sources of wealth creation, through various appropriate forms of subsidies when they are needed, to be repaid in the forms of various taxes and fees when there are cash flows to tap into.

Minor details:

So you'd have to figure out how to help countries do this (which probably means letting them industrialize instead of forcing them to accept Bretton Woods prescriptions)

Bretton Woods did not prohibit industrialization.  What's now called "Bretton Woods" is the intellectually hijacked mechanisms that Bretton Woods set up for quite different purposes.  Bretton Woods started off supporting industrial development.  It was the advent of the Chicago School--as Naomi Klein describes in The Shock Doctrine--that crystalized the attitude which saw Third World developmentalism as a threat akin to socialism, just as it saw socialism as a threat akin to communism.

or how to redistribute resources across national boundaries from wealthy countries to poor countries (which doesn't seem imaginable to me).

Nor was the abolition of slavery imaginable once.  The regeneration of imagination is the most valuable endeavor humanity has ever engaged in.  It is the greatest source of human happiness and well-being, as well as material wealth.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
response (0.00 / 0)
What is needed is a forthright rejection of this fantasy, and the recognition of the need to sustain all the sources of wealth creation, through various appropriate forms of subsidies when they are needed, to be repaid in the forms of various taxes and fees when there are cash flows to tap into.

I fully agree, and would add that businesses that aren't improving their efficiency should lose those subsidies (i.e. discipline) as they did in South Korea.  I don't think that any student of industrialization worth their salt will argue with you that at least three things matter in increasing productivity are: capital productivity growth; labor productivity growth; and increased total factor productivity (a magical entity that reflects things like technology improvements, improvements in organization in businesses, no drastic declines in natural resources, etc.).  Moreover, I don't think anyone worth their salt will argue with you that neither the state nor the private sector can do this alone and that what passes for "development policy" from the Bretton Woods institutions now is a farce, when in fact there actually was some legitimate sincere interest in promoting industrialization in parts of the developing world earlier in the century.

The only two things i would point to in response are: 1) there is a long and continuing legacy of imperialism (meaning unequal power relations among countries in the world that's used to the benefit of powerful countries) that factors into this and therefore, the best that we might be able to hope for is for rich countries to just be honest and not interfere with the policies of poor countries; if people in rich countries are reticent to do things like changing the political structures in their own countries, how likely are they going to be to challenge the nation-state system? I would rather the United States take a hands-off attitude almost all the time than get involved at all - unless they do good things like building infrastructure in competition with China to curry good will.  

2) Even when rich countries support industrialization in poor countries (I really don't know if they ever really have across the board, but I would be surprised), most countries are dealing with particular histories and social contexts that make it difficult to take an example like South Korea or the Soviet Union and apply it to India or Nigeria or anywhere else, much less to take an ideology like communism, statism, or neoliberalism and attempt to convince everyone in the world that it's the right answer for them.  Pragmatism and practical tradeoffs between political and economic stability end up being more important in promoting industrialization than a single ideological vision, I think (though that can help in certain contexts).

Strongly recommend the work of Mushtaq Khan.


[ Parent ]
What We Need (0.00 / 0)
is a broad, egalitarian mass movement.  This was starting to develop with the anti-corporate gobalization movement before 9/11.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
How could they be so stupid? (4.00 / 2)
I think we all know that one. We could not have a welfare state in America at that time because black and brown people would have gotten stuff for free. They didn't have that same problem in Europe.

I like to think we are maybe sorta getting past that now?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
in our world (0.00 / 0)
if there is an overall framework that can explain how to make globalization work for those in the bottom 80% of the economy I haven't seen it.

If you believe in industrialization, I think the best we can do is try to get developing states as much policy autonomy as possible.  They do this currently by a) giving lip service to WB/IMF prescriptions while b) pursuing the policies they need to anyway.  By pushing back against trade-related imperialism, we can help more countries have more policy space, and they do with it what they will.

The other alternatives are a) figuring out what the "right" policies are in each and every individual case and a mechanism for ensuring that they're not pushed/imposed in a way that's damaging (i.e. a world state) or b) coming up with alternatives to the current ideas about the most feasible ideas about industrialization (which revolve around protection and discipline of capital by the state).

And oh yeah - c) working in legitimate solidarity with movements of the disempowered around the world and trying to focus on expanded policy influence for them rather than only the elites :)  but this gets dicey when considered in connection with the disparities of power between "the working class" in the United States and, say, "the working class" in Guatemala, and doesn't necessarily address the question of how you get higher output per person to allow higher per capita incomes.

Some redress/sacrifices would also be great - like more open movement of labor and cutting down on consumption of fossil fules in wealthy countries.


[ Parent ]
This Is Lunacy! (4.00 / 1)
If you believe in industrialization, I think the best we can do is try to get developing states as much policy autonomy as possible.

That's a perscription for a race to the bottom, same as we have now.

They do this currently by a) giving lip service to WB/IMF prescriptions while b) pursuing the policies they need to anyway.

Damn straight.  Like I said, same as we have now.

By pushing back against trade-related imperialism, we can help more countries have more policy space, and they do with it what they will.

No. What we need is a global policy regime that makes sense for everyone so that they have a vested interest in maintaining it, rather than a neo-imperialist one that doesn't benefit any country at all because the neo-imperialists are loyal to no one but themselves.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
well who will create this policy regime? (0.00 / 0)
and how will you make sure it's not completely weighted against the developing world, given that they have no leverage?  Or is this something we simply accept?  Universal solutions have a nagging tendency to be completely unfair.

[ Parent ]
Moral Movements First (0.00 / 0)
This is a further implication of dignitarianism, among other things.  One needs a greatly strengthened egalitarian ideology to get this done, and such an ideology would pay substantial other dividends as well.

First create the movement, then worry about the policy apparatus.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sounds good to me. (0.00 / 0)
Things could get very interesting in the years ahead if we can get some intellectual trench warfare going online and really educate folks about the intellectual terrain, and the pragmatic, as well as moral, consequences involved.

I'm in. I guess first I have to educate myself. Note to self: Google "behavioral economics" and figure out what it is.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Global Warming (4.00 / 4)
Rather than tax cuts to stimulate the Japanese and Chinese economies, Obama could have promised major new infrastructure investments, for a national infrastructure that is currently underinvested to the tune of several trillion dollars.

That could have been a cornerstone for investments in green energy sources, mass transit, etc.

But I guess we're still in the shadow of Reagan, so instead we get middle class tax cuts and biofuels (the latter of which is turning out to be a policy disaster).

No one has mentioned global warming.  Talk to anyone who works in climate science and it's a sobering experience.  This is the game changing development of the 21st century. It will fundamentally alter the way we live and do commerce, and it is probably responsible for the largest extinction event in the planet's history, now under way. What can we do to stop it?  We would have to try everything, immediately, and hope that all of it works.  That is the scale of the problem.

As for peak oil, we can always find alternative fossil fuels, coal and shale, this is fundamentally an economic issue.  I'm afraid to ask what Obama's stance is on that.

He's a smart guy, he can learn.  Hopefully he's listening to the right people.  If he appoints a Global Warming Czar (Gore!), I will believe he gets it.  But in the end, he is only a lawyer, and the scale of this is something lawyers and accountants have a problem with.

Global warming is the issue.


GW vs. PO (4.00 / 2)
If not sure these two things...

No one has mentioned global warming.  Talk to anyone who works in climate science and it's a sobering experience.  This is the game changing development of the 21st century. It will fundamentally alter the way we live and do commerce, and it is probably responsible for the largest extinction event in the planet's history, now under way. What can we do to stop it?  We would have to try everything, immediately, and hope that all of it works.  That is the scale of the problem.

and

As for peak oil, we can always find alternative fossil fuels, coal and shale, this is fundamentally an economic issue.

...are compatible.


[ Parent ]
Global warming is the big challenge (0.00 / 0)
Peak oil requires us to find alternative energy sources.  There are fossil fuel alternatives.  I expect that this economy will move to coal consumption, including liquefied coal, as oil becomes too expensive.

Global warming requires a much more fundamental restructuring of how we do things, and alternative fossil fuels are not part of the picture.  [And please don't mention sequestration, last I heard it was going to cost $40T to develop that and it would have to be a small part of a much bigger solution, on its own it only delivers a relatively small payoff.]  

And it's not just a matter of cutting our consumption of fossil fuels.  We are destroying the rain forests that have been a carbon sink for us.  The oceans appear to be reaching saturation point, and becoming more acidic with the CO2 they are absorbing.  The melting ice caps are reducing our albedo.  As the permafrost melts in the arctic, it is releasing huge amounts of methane, a much worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

And on and on.  Peak oil threatens our economic livelihood.  Global warming threatens our very existence.  All of the great extinction events in history are associated with elevated global temperatures.


[ Parent ]
On the other hand... (0.00 / 0)
I would like to point out that positive and negative feedback mechanisms eventually bring all systems towards a point of equilibrium.  Human life is seriously out of balance and some negative feedback is long overdue.  One of the best things that could happen for the rest of life on this planet would be for the human race to experience a massive die-off.  This sounds cold-hearted, but it would be good for the planet...

[ Parent ]
This reads like a speech by Bill Clinton (4.00 / 4)
circa 1992.

#We have to have fair trade, not free trade (a meaningless phrase)
#Globalization is here to stay, we have to retrain our workers to meet the challenges of the new economy.
#A progressive tax policy

I swear I heard damn near the same speech at the 1996 Democratic National Convention.

I am not surprised. We don't really have a theoretical framework that would allow us to figure out how to make globalization pay for the average worker.  

At least Gary Hart talked about an industrial policy in 1983 that focused on key sectors in the economy.  Maybe we can send him a copy of that speech.

On the one hand it is miles better than McCain.

And on the other it is really quite pathetic.  


Well, He Told Us He Admired Reagan (4.00 / 3)
And we refused to believe him.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I don't really blame him (0.00 / 0)
As I write above, most of the proposed remedies I have read about simply won't work.

What exactly do you say to someone whose call center is outsourced to India?  You can talk about labor standards and the welfare state all you want, but that doesn't confront the central problem head on: the wage disparity between the US labor rate and the Indian labor rate is 5X.  

A revised Bretton Woods isn't going to solve this problem.  And the idea of a global union is laughable (maybe it will be there in 2075).

You can strengthen the safety net: and I support that.  But these are just things that work on the margins.



[ Parent ]
what if there were no wage disparity between the U.S. and India (4.00 / 1)
that would provide a pretty strong protection against the flight of businesses, no? ;)  it's probably more than 5X,  btw.

what is fair, however, is to point out that the current ideology - neoliberalism - doesn't help people in the third world OR american workers, contary to what elites say.  and try to work to get those groups to have dialogue about what a fair solution might look like.


[ Parent ]
You Make A Good Argument For Terrorism (0.00 / 0)
Fortunately, I don't believe you.

There are other options.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I have no idea (0.00 / 0)
what you mean by that comment.

[ Parent ]
"No Future" => Terrorism (0.00 / 0)
Not that hard to figure out.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I think the global union thing is a bit of a straw man (0.00 / 0)
You don't need a global union, you just need unionization all over the globe. And yeah, once in a while maybe they'll work together.

What we need to get rid of is the US fascination with stopping and hindering left wing governments. Certainly Chavez and AMLO (in Mexico) have their problems. But the attempts to sabotage the Democratic process in those countries seems totally absurd given that there is no global threat from the Soviet Union anymore. What are we doing?

Instead of trying to overthrow left wing governments in other countries (they aren't exactly Soviet aligned anymore, right?) we could spend some time twisting the arms of right wing dictators and democracies that we're allied with (or not) into raising labor standards and allowing independent labor organizing.

This could be worked into free trade deals, it could be something we encourage in any negotionations, and, in those situations where we are more or less involved in rebuilding a country, it could be a central focus. It can and should be framed as a fundamental human rights issue.

Independent labor might be able to counter the worst aspects of globalization if it were present as a force in more countries. This is especially true if these unions are able to cooperate in taking on international firms. More than that, independent unions are a powerful force for Democracy against Right or Left wing power grabs. We might actually be able to turn the march of democracy into a reality, instead of neocon fantasy.

In summary: Purge the CIA.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
All of this is at the margins (0.00 / 0)
and does not confront the central reality of wage differentials.

It's damn near irrelevant.

I will repeat, at this point we have damn near nothing to say to the worker who has seen their job outsourced.


[ Parent ]
We have nothing to say... (4.00 / 1)
Because their job has already been outsourced. It's like saying Universal Health Care is just at the margins because we have nothing to say to someone who's mother died of a treatable disease. If what your saying is that nothing short of a magical time machine can reshape the way that gobal development patters have already happened, you're quite right. Luckily, voters understand that fairly well. The question is how we shape them in the future.

So yes, we have no way of literally twisting the arms of other countries into sending us jobs back, but that doesn't mean we don't have the means for a profound change into how the system operates.

So one part of it is that we need to focus on the at-the-margins stuff here. But we should also devote ourselves to an economic system where wages elsewhere rise slowly to meet ours, instead of one where ours fall quickly to meet theres. By focusing not just on labor standards but on independent labor itself, we can develop towards a more equitable and democratic world, one with a consensus and framework for handling global environmental issues, and one where globalization's race to the bottom and pressure on American workers are eased and then stopped.

This, of course, leaves out the more radical anti-globalization movements like the Zapatistas and others who don't even embrace industrialization, and who are fundamentally anarchist. My take is that if they want to be left alone, we should leave them alone, but I think it's pretty clear the don't present any kind of model for the majority of people in the world.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
Excuse my yours and theres (0.00 / 0)
Apparently, I learned to proofread from Matthew Yglesias.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.

[ Parent ]
Ok, to make a final point. (0.00 / 0)
You present the problem as if there isn't enough pie to go around. So if they gain, we lose. They have lower wages, so they'll gain jobs and we'll lose jobs.

The fact is, if we sliced the pie right, there'd be enough for our wages to rise, and their wages to rise faster, and for everyone to eventually even out without the US turning into Detroit, Michigan. That's a sort of fundamental reason many economists support free trade, despite the fact that real-world free trade agreements have almost comically failed to do what they promised.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
well what do you want him to say? (0.00 / 0)
that the u.s. requires a massive redistribution of wealth and that global disparities in wealth and power are a massive blot on the world?  That it has completely flawed transportation and environmental policies?  He's running for president and has good communication skills and isn't a total ass.  That's what we wanted right?

What I like about him is that I feel okay saying these things - like the NSA isn't going to come get me (knock on wood).  It's a start.  Wasn't it FDR who told people trying to convince him of something that he was convinced and now they should go out and pressure him? :)


[ Parent ]
says who? (4.00 / 1)
Just because YOU buy into globalization and the Reagan/Thatcher economy doesn't make it real. He can put all the money into education and training he wants.  IF there are no fucking jobs, there are no fucking jobs.  Michigan has been dealing with this whole issue for seven years.  For seven plus years we have had a seven % plus unemployment rate.  People have been retraining and retraining - medical or truck driver is all that is left.  We won't even train in IT unless it is a skill upgrade because people can't get work in IT unless they have five years experience in something extremely specific.  

IF Obama doesn't stop the bleed of jobs, technology, and skills away from this country, I WILL VOTE AGAINST HIM IN 2012. I won't care if it will be cutting off my nose to spite my face, and I won't be the only one.  I have tolerated Democrats for the last 30 years,and this is their last shotl  People are voting for Democrats becuase they expect them to return to their core values.  If they6 don't, they only real way to hurt them is to vote for a Republican.

I was never a Hillary supporter because of Mr. NAFTA.  However, Hillary's pissed-off, white, middle aged women voters will be a drop in a bucket when you see the unemployed and under employed bottom 90% in this country rise up.   So when all of his college supporters graduate, can't find work, and have to move out of mom and dad's basement because mom and dad's house is being foreclosed on.... well, there Obama goes.   With careful delegate counting and manipulation, he barely won.  If he doesn't deliver, it won't save his ass next time.

Are you an MD?  Maybe we need to socialize medicine and put you on a salary of say 40K to help curtail the cost of health care.  Afterall, can't undermine or regulate the markets - only workers.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
right on (4.00 / 1)
Just because YOU buy into globalization and the Reagan/Thatcher economy doesn't make it real.

I don't (for other reasons - mostly the effects it has on the rest of the world).  I'm sorry I was so blase - I know different issues provoke different people's fury.  To put it differently - Does Obama piss me off when he says that he'll bomb Pakistan or that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel?  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!  Will I vote for him in 2012?  Not if he doesn't prove he's worth it in the next four years.

But I'll give him those four years.  And if he doesn't deliver, I'll vote for Nader or whoever else is running then on a more left party.


[ Parent ]
Four years is all he's got so he'd better listen up. n.t (0.00 / 0)


They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
I'm glad someone else noticed. (4.00 / 1)
But on the other hand -- Clinton didn't have the netroots to keep their foot in his back. And there is no Newt Gingrich in Congress, or Tom Delay.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Another key point (0.00 / 0)
Great speech, and good summary. I think this deserves a bullet in your summary though.

We'll also need to place a greater emphasis on areas like science and technology that will define the workforce of the 21st century, and invest in the research and innovation necessary to create the jobs and industries of the future right here in America. One place where that investment would make an enormous difference is in a renewable energy policy that ends our addiction on foreign oil, provides real long-term relief from high fuel costs, and builds a green economy that could create up to five million well-paying jobs that can't be outsourced.







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