My Veep Thoughts

by: Mike Lux

Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 13:24


I was going to stay out of the VP debates, because as I mentioned the other day the formula for getting it right is really complex, and I could easily make a case pro and con for a bunch of different folks.  But because it is all everyone wants to talk about in DC these days, I have continued to think about it as I have listened to everyone's arguments and counter-arguments, and I have decided that I do indeed have a favorite.  Since I know all of you are just dying to know what I think (okay, maybe not, but what the hell), here's my argument.
Mike Lux :: My Veep Thoughts

My choice would be Sherrod Brown.  I know he's not on the official short list being circulated, and conventional wisdom weighs heavily against him because he's so "liberal," but I like this idea because it allows Obama to both double down on his own best attributes and make a more conventional electoral college math kind of play.  Here's my thinking:

1. Like Obama, Sherrod is relatively youthful and is vital, full of energy, and appealing.  And while he has been in DC longer than Obama, because of his populist outsider platform and image, he doesn't have the inside-the-beltway baggage of so many other candidates being discussed.  

2. Unless Obama builds and maintains a big popular vote lead, over 6 points, this electoral college battle is going to be too close for comfort.  PA, MI, and NH are all going to be challenging to hang onto from the Kerry states, and none of the Bush states we're going for are easy at all in a close race.  That leads me to think Obama should pick someone who can provide maximum electoral college help in a big swing state.  Ohio Gov. Strickland has taken himself out of contention, which I'm sorry about because he would have been a great possibility.  Rendell's a possibility, but he is a total loose cannon with lots of insidery baggage.  Kaine has even less experience than Obama, and isn't very exciting on the stump.  Webb would be my top choice if it weren't for his horrible history on women's issues, but given the importance of bringing women into the fold, I think it's a bad idea to have someone with that history as the VP.  

3. Speaking of women, while I have less fervent views on this than many people, my first choice would not be Hillary.  There would be a lot of good things about it, but I've been convinced by all the ad nauseum debate that the negatives outweigh the positives.  I also admit I'm a little nervous about the Bill Clinton soap opera factor.  

Another woman was originally my first choice, with both Gov. Sebelius and Napolitano being appealing to me.  But I have had one woman friend after another, including some Obama supporters, tell me that they think putting a woman on the ticket other than Hillary would be perceived as a slap at Hillary.  I don't quite get that, but I've been convinced that this would be a real problem.  

4. Sherrod's biggest weakness is the lack of national security cred (although he has served on the International Relations Committee, and the subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, so he's certainly not a novice on foreign policy).  That is a downside, but the thing about the VP pick is that it can't be everything you want: there are just no perfect candidates out there.  Whoever you pick for VP, you are giving up something, unless there's a youthful, appealing, widely respected, populist woman general from Ohio I'm not aware of.

5. Sherrod's other big weakness is that most of conventional wisdom DC punditry consider him too left.  But as I argued the other day, I think this is the year to openly challenge the Republicans to an ideological debate.  Besides, they are not going to stop calling Obama the most liberal Senator in the country even if he picks Sam Nunn as his VP.  My final point here is that for all of Sherrod's "liberalism," he showed in 2006 his great appeal with working class voters.  In rural Appalachian Meigs and Vinton counties, Bush won 58% and 55% respectively, while in Sherrod's race against a moderate Republican Senator, Sherrod won 52% in Meigs and 55% in Vinton.  

6. Finally, in terms of other candidates, I think there are a lot of interesting possibilities.  As I said, I'm not as down on Hillary being the pick as many are, I just think there are more downsides than upsides.  I thought Stoller made a great case for Wes Clark, but he doesn't pack much of an electoral college punch, and some of the top people in his campaign tell me he was a really arrogant campaigner and never listened to anyone else's advice.  I would love a woman, but this slap at Hillary argument is one I've heard now from a very diverse set of people, so it has me spooked.  Many of the other candidates being talked about seem like stiffs.  

So that's my argument.  Glad to join the game.  And, Barack, if you're reading along, feel free to call and I'll give you even more good advice...


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My Veep Thoughts | 42 comments
people don't vote for veep (4.00 / 1)
There's not much (any?) evidence that voters vote based on whether a vice presidential candidate comes from their state. I doubt that Sherrod Brown is well known or popular enough in Ohio to swing the state even 1% in Obama's favor. If you are going to use helping with a swing state as a major reason to justify a vice presidential pick, you need to pick somebody who at least could somewhat credibly do that (maybe Mark Warner, Bill Richardson, or less likely Bob Graham).

Well known in Ohio? ... (4.00 / 2)
WTF are you talking about?  He crushed a sitting Senator in '06!!  I would hope Ohio knows who its Senators are.

[ Parent ]
if we're arguing that people don't care much about the vp (4.00 / 3)
then shouldn't our focus be on finding the best possible person to run in 2016?  

[ Parent ]
Good reason to pick Brown (4.00 / 1)
or Feingold.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
I'd be willing to particpate in a "Draft Sherrod" movement.... (4.00 / 7)
....in a heartbeat.

I've been on the Brown "bandwagon" for a while (4.00 / 8)
I'll keep repeating this until it actually becomes a short list:

I want either:

Brown
Feingold
Schweitzer

Because of his Ohio-connection, Brown could be the best of  those three.


Add (0.00 / 0)
I like all three, but I would Throw Clark in there.  Schweitzer would be my tops.

[ Parent ]
Well, Wisconsin's a swing state, too (4.00 / 4)


[ Parent ]
Very happy (0.00 / 0)
to see a front-pager support Sherrod Brown.  He's definitely my top pick.

[ Parent ]
I like Brown a lot (0.00 / 0)
He voted against the war, refused the Congressional health care plan to protest lack of universal care, and knows that populism is the way for Dems to win (and he's proved it.)

Have I mentioned that there's no absolutely no chance that Obama will pick him?

Obama has long gone to great lengths to assure corporations and the MSM that he won't rock the boat but he's gonna select the guy who literally wrote the book against free trade? Nope. Indeed, the only place I've seen Brown mentioned as a possibility is in these parts.

Nice thought, tho.


Wow (4.00 / 1)
So it doesn't matter how much a V.P.'s views are in line with the vast supermajority of voters on economic and trade issues, just that she conforms to the interests of the billionaires? I thought they already had a party for that side ...

http://www.funnyordie.com/jame...

[ Parent ]
Take it up with Obama (0.00 / 0)
He's been much too cautious of antagonizing the corporate state so far, and at some point it's going to directly conflict with his priorities.  It'll be a defining moment when he decides how to handle that... you can't bring change without taking on the entities that actually wield power.  

Edwards seemed to get that.  I hope will Obama will too, when the rubber actually hits the road.

Tim Wolfe


[ Parent ]
He'll split the baby. (0.00 / 0)
And liberals will either cry in their beer or figure out a way to establish a strong influence on Obama from his left.  

[ Parent ]
watch the mixed metaphors (0.00 / 0)
split the baby = completely fuck up the situation

[ Parent ]
Ha! Thanks. (0.00 / 0)
What I meant by split the baby was put forth a compromise that isn't ideal... I guess I need to be more careful...

[ Parent ]
People Power (4.00 / 1)
I suspect that Obama's strategy is to do everything he can to give the grassroots the power to force progressive changes on whoever is in charge, while he continues to suck up to the establishment as much as he thinks he needs to.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Sortof a "massage your feet with one hand, arm your enemies with the other" kindof thing? (0.00 / 0)
I hope so.

The advantage of that is that corporate power isn't likely to notice the structural things Obama is (we hope!) doing to the electorate -- like that amazing telecom/internet policy -- until too late, because corporate power isn't likely to believe grassroots energy is a real threat until sometime after it actually consolidates and proves itself.  So that's nice.

The disadvantage is, what if it doesn't work?  At least with Edwards we were assured of a clean fight.  If Obama is the stealth liberal, which I think he is, you get a better chance of winning the office (I say) but also a better chance of losing the presidency.


[ Parent ]
Clark was good on Morning Joe (4.00 / 1)
this morning.  

I like the idea of neutering McCain's perceived military strength.

John McCain won't insure children


Wasn't that the piont of nominating the Vietnam hero in 2004? (4.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
Backwards (4.00 / 1)
It isn't about going "look guys, we've got a general!".  It is about giving General Clark a high profile to blast McCain from a position of authority.  Offense, not defense.

[ Parent ]
if clark will be a good ol' attack dog with four stars, (4.00 / 1)
i'd be plenty happy with him

[ Parent ]
Clark on Morning Joe (4.00 / 3)
Did you see the segment? I am the first one to rail against the inoculation strategy that gave us Kerry, but I think magster is referring to what he said and not his resume. Clark directly challenged McCain's national security "credentials." It was awesome. Mika was dumbstruck. I really couldn't give a flying fuck about nominating a general and have never been a Clark advocate, but I'm all for anybody who will directly challenge some of the bullshit that passes for conventional "wisdom." Dean had the balls to do it, and this morning I saw Clark do it. Credit where credit is due.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
war crimes commission act (0.00 / 0)
am I correctly informed that Brown voted for the military commissions act? I would prefer an anti-torture VP, but that is just me.

As angry as I am about MI and FL, I would like to see Dean.

However, I am fine as long as Obama doesn't choose anyone gross, like Webb.


You are right (0.00 / 0)
I was helping out the Dems in Ohio in 06, and I was very disappointed.

That said, it was right before the election in a pretty conservative state running against a moderate Republican incumbent. And it was gonna pass anyway.

Not that I generally cut politicians slack, especially on an issue that is that important, but he opposed the war, he's generally good on constitutional issues, and he's superb on domestic economic issues. He's one of the most progressive Senators out there, a great advocate, and popular in a conservative state. Honestly, I think his biggest downside as VP is that he wouldn't stay in the Senate, and I think he'd make a damn good majority leader one day.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
Hate to burst your bubble (0.00 / 0)
but 53 million suckers voted for a war criminal in 2004.  

[ Parent ]
Wes Clark (4.00 / 1)
I've read a lot about various VP candidates and I have thought about this a lot.  I keep coming back to Wesley Clark.  He did not perform well in his presidential bid but he has had time to learn and improve.  We need someone with military credibility to counter McCain.   Jim Webb is a loose cannon.  Sam Nunn is to conservative.  Chuck Hagel would be an interesting choice if he was pro-choice.  Perhaps the most interesting choice would be Colin Powell.  However, I'm not sure America is ready to support and all-black ticket.  By process of elimination, Wes Clark is the best option for bringing military credibility onto the ticket.    

You'd support a war criminal? (4.00 / 1)
Perhaps the most interesting choice would be Colin Powell.

[ Parent ]
Military "credibility" is a bullshit concept (4.00 / 3)
that yields bullshit results. One word: Kerry.

McCain's positions regarding military matters suck. Credibility comes from making the case that they suck. Credibility comes from being knowledgeable and rational. Obama doesn't need any help in that department. McCain sucks. We don't need a general to point out how badly McCain sucks.

Powell? Are you fucking kidding me? (Just the fact that you would, based on "military credibility," suggest the asshat who delivered the completely fraudulent WMD case to the U.N., illustrates perfectly what a bullshit concept "military credibility" is.

Hagel? A guy who voted to completely eliminate the national minimum wage? Are you fucking kidding me?


miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
re: My Veep Thoughts (4.00 / 1)
The "slap at Hillary" thing absolutely boggles my mind. What Hillary diehard is going to pass up the chance to vote for a woman for VP five months from now just because it's not her? I don't think American women are so stupid and spiteful, at least not in sufficiently large numbers to make a material impact. (At the very least, I think Hillary's going to publicly disavow any interest in the job before there's an announcement. Otherwise any other candidate will rankle a few idiots.)

I'd be more concerned about sexists who are unwilling to vote for any woman, because their impact on the race is still an unknown.

And it truly scares me that people continue to bandy the Strickland name about without mentioning that he is pro-life. Did you not know that? Strickland is pro-life. Maybe that didn't stand out enough. STRICKLAND IS PRO-LIFE. If people are disqualifying Webb on the basis of sexist comments from two decades ago, maybe they ought to think twice before they look wistfully on Mr. Clothes Hanger.


So what (0.00 / 0)
What real policy influence is an VP going to have? Are there going to be that many 50-50 debates?  Won't total fealty to the Obama platform be required?

It's only to make people fell like they're represented, not to really represent them.


[ Parent ]
Google "patronizing tokenism" (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Here's a news flash... (0.00 / 0)
...no woman will ever be considered for VP purely on her own merits. Ever. The question of the impact of her gender on the ticket will always be weighed. We're still years from even the point where it won't be the most salient point of her candidacy. Call it tokenism if you will, but barriers aren't broken by themselves.

So it rankles a little to hear that in this year, when the presidential nominee has made history and is open to the possibility of making more, this thrilling year, that tokenism is all some people can see--that a perfectly reasonable and laudable choice is somehow perceived as insulting.

When a man is chosen, you can bet your life they'll be considering whether he comes from a swing state, whether he's a veteran, whether he speaks Spanish, and all those goodies that broaden his appeal without necessarily making him better at his job. They'll consider all of them except the one that could have made history, made it easier for the next generation of women to get ahead. Because you're working hard to close that door for them. Way to go.


[ Parent ]
do you have any opinion... (0.00 / 0)
about Brian Schweitzer?  Many of us are drawn to him for similar reasons that we were drawn to Obama - raw political talent.  Plus, he seems to have the potential to expand the appeal of the Democratic Party into the future.  Although admittedly he does little electoral college wise for Obama, he would be hard for Republicans to attack and he is a good complement to Obama in many ways (mainly, an urban/rural balance that Bill Clinton brought up about a month ago).  There may be a loose cannon factor here (although Schweitzer has been quiet during the primary season) and from what I can tell, Obama and Schweitzer barely know each other.    

Um, not the most intelligent comment ever, but... (0.00 / 0)
I had this same thought, but then I wondered if OBAMA/BROWN  is really what you want on a bumper sticker. The VP should reinforce the perceived strengths of the nominee, but this might be taking things a little too far.

On a more substantive note, I wonder if Schwitzer doesn't make sense. Elevating him to VP would put him in a great position to make another run at things in 2012 or 2016, he's from the west (key battle ground) and speaks Arabic. Plus, he is pretty badass.


humourous appeal (0.00 / 0)
Obama/Brown would have a humorous appeal

[ Parent ]
Maturity (0.00 / 0)
If this country isn't mature enough to deal with an Obama/Brown bumper sticker, then frankly they're not mature enough to elect an African American in the first place.

Actually, choosing Brown would have a very amusing side effect because you can bet dollars to donuts that there would be some right wing sock airheads trying to convince low information voters that Sherrod Brown is an African American because of his first name. Limbaugh did during his 2006 campaign.  


[ Parent ]
Sorry Mike (0.00 / 0)
It's Bayh, Webb, or Nunn exactly because people like you and me don't want it to be.

Brown and the Military Commissions Act (0.00 / 0)
Does it bother you even slightly that Brown voted for the Military Commissions Act, whose denial of habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees the Supreme Court struck down yesterday?  For me, this disqualifies him from consideration for the vice presidency - and indeed, for his current position.

Clark (0.00 / 0)

..... some of the top people in his campaign tell me he was a really arrogant campaigner and never listened to anyone else's advice.

Please tell Chris Lehane to crawl back under the rock he came out from.

Clark's problem in 04 was that he didn't ignore his "top people" more.

Although Clark is too polite to speak publicly about the DC consultants he had working for him, his son has had no such reticence.  


the idea of Brown is great (0.00 / 0)
the reality is not

paralyzed in the face of decisions; not a good quality in a President

please, please, please not Clinton or Bayh


My Veep Thoughts | 42 comments
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