Do We Really Need 60 Democratic Votes?

by: Matt Stoller

Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:38


Todd Beeton and the crew at MyDD have put up their 'Road to 60' Actblue page to raise money to get to 60 Senators in the Senate.  The justification is that we need 60 votes in the Senate to overcome Republican filibusters.  Moveon is also organizing its strategy around getting to 60 votes in the Senate, as is the DSCC.  This sounds like a reasonable argument, since the number of votes needed to get to cloture - 60 - is routinely used as justification for not passing progressive legislation.

I'm somewhat skeptical.  There are two reasons I don't buy the 60 vote narrative.  The first is that conservatives don't need 60 guaranteed Republican votes to pass their legislative priorities, they don't even need a Republican majority.  The Patriot Act in 2001 passed overwhelmingly with a Democratic Senate majority, just as FISA did in 2008.  The Iraq war authorization passed overwhelmingly in 2002 with a Democratic majority, just as war funding did in 2007.  The second is that we don't need 60 guaranteed Democratic votes to move our legislative priorities; the Webb GI Bill passed with 75 votes in the Senate and the Bush tax cuts will sunset in 2010 unless they are reauthorized.

Here are some more examples of critical pieces of legislation around national security and civil liberties that passed with a much larger than 60 margin.

Cloture vote on Alito: 72-25
Vote authorizing war in Iraq: 75-24
War Funding in 2007: 80-14
Reauthorziation of Patriot Act: 84-15
FISA Cloture Vote: 80-15
Webb GI Bill, 75-22

The 'Road to 60' argument is premised on a fundamentally misguided understanding of Senate dynamics.  It assumes that the body is a two team rugby scrum wherein brute head-on force rules absolutely at all times.  While sometimes brute force does rule, and yes there is some validity to getting to 60, it is not the dominant determinant of what kinds of legislation passes.  What is very clear in the Senate is that one Senator can operate with reckless abandon and hold up all sorts of legislation, but that this Senator will then create enemies which could stymie his or her priorities for decades.  It is why bipartisanship is genuinely a concern in the Senate.

The Senate, in other words, is a network and operates as a network.  Democratic and Republican caucuses are one and only one way of grouping Senators, and certainly not the only way of grouping them.  Just look at the vote totals on the winning side of those key votes: 72, 75, 80, 80, 75.  These are not breaking down along caucus lines, they are breaking down by 'clumps', as are the losing vote 'clumps': 24, 25, 15, 14.  And these clumps link to each other, financially and through co-sponsored legislation and shared filibusters.  For instance, a single hold or pledge to filibuster a bill will bring retribution, because the target is fixed.  But it is much harder to be vindictive against three or four Senators all working together to hold up a bill.  And it is impossible to be vindictive against 80 Senators working to hold up a bill.

In other words, power in the Senate in some ways operates according to Metcalfe's Law, in which the number of nodes on the network increases the value of the network exponentially rather than in a linear fashion.  Only, the networks within the Senate are not party caucuses but ideological in nature.  The progressives have a small number of dedicated stalwarts, sometimes only one, and that makes retribution easy.  The far right-wing have a larger number, but the center-right clump within both parties routinely works within itself and builds constant power.  They have by far the most power in the body, not because they are Republicans or Democrats but because they have the largest set of interconnected nodes.

If any of this is true, a very different strategy makes sense for progressives (as opposed to Democrats).  The goal is not to put into office Democrats, but to put into office people who meet the following criteria:

  • Those who have a demonstrated willingness to work with other progressives within a chamber.
  • Those who have a demonstrated willingness to 'break' with centrist clumps and take the attendant retribution.
  • Those who have a demonstrated willingness to dish out retribution to centrists or conservatives and weaken their networks.

    All three of these are necessary to build out a progressive power center in the Senate and actually begin to assemble the 70 or 80 vote clumps we need to pass legislation.  We need people who will group with other progressives, like Jeff Merkley or Sherrod Brown.  We need people willing to attack party leadership and other Senators, which is why I supported Steve Novick, and why we found Russ Feingold and Paul Wellstone so appealing, and we need a progressive Tom Coburn or Ted Stevens, who is willing to act as the cranky porcupine that you cross at your peril.

    This theory of the Senate as a network explains why it is so critical for anonymous Senate aides to attack crazy liberals on the internet, and why we glom on to the most outspoken Senators rather than people like Barbara Boxer.  A centrist saying that standing up to Moveon is critical is working to destroy a progressive network connection, while an outspoken Senator on our side is using outside actors to work to break up centrist 'clumps'.  There is a war within the body, in other words, one in which partisan affiliations are basically a distraction.

    So no, we don't need 60 votes to move progressive priorities.  What we need are a committed group of Senators - perhaps as small as 25 or 30 - without whom the other clumps can't get anything done.

  • Matt Stoller :: Do We Really Need 60 Democratic Votes?

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    Except there is one big difference... (4.00 / 4)
    ...Republicans have party discipline, the Democratic version is like herding cats... Democrats have no qualms, whatsoever, to behave like Republicans, but Republicans always stay disciplined no matter what.  Notice how in 1994, Democrats were falling all over themselves to switch parties, yet we had no Republican switches in 2006.

    Don't expect Republicans to do anything but be in full obstruction mode.  It's all they know.  It worked for them in 1993, expect them to try the same strategy again.  Will it work?  Probably not... but, neither will smearing Obama... and they are still employing that strategy....

    REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
    SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
    REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


    To be fair, (4.00 / 4)
    after 1994, a bunch of Dixecrats that had really been republicans since the eighties (and who voted for Reagan's policies against the Democratic majorities of that era, making a functional conservative majority) who realized that the Civil war was a century and a half ago, that the Democrats were the anti-Jim Crow party now, and that they could happily switch without repercussions from the voters in their home districts.

    Why the Gordon Smiths and Lincoln Chafee's of the world aren't seeing the same writing on the wall is beyond me.  The Rockefeller Republican is an even more endangered species than the Dixiecrat is.


    [ Parent ]
    two reasons (4.00 / 2)
    People tend to overvalue what they have right now, so Gordon Smith believes that his connections within the Republican Party are more valuable than the additional connections he'd gain by switching parties.  He's underestimating the risk to his Senate seat of staying in the status quo.  At the same time, if he loses, he'll be well-coddled by corporate interests.  

    [ Parent ]
    Some of them are getting it... (4.00 / 2)
    ...Both Gordon Smith and Norm Coleman are trying to tie themsleves to Obama... and McCain is practically running as a Democrat!

    So, some of them do get it... but, this is an old strategy that Republicans used to maintain their majorities in the 90's... "Oh, I'm a moderate... I stand against Newt Gingrich and buck the party (even though I actually never do), so I'm not 'scary' like Newt is... so, vote for me!  I'll pretend to be a Democrat for the next 3 months and then back to voting party line, but you didn't hear the last part, K?"

    So, we have to be diligent this time around to tie the party around their necks like an anchor!

    REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
    SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
    REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


    [ Parent ]
    Matt .. you are missing the forest through the trees .. (4.00 / 3)
    should we need 60? .. No .. of course not ... but given how a bunch of Democratic Senators vote .. and how the Republicans rarely break ranks on cloture votes ... we need 60 votes because of that ... and because Reid sucks a Majority Leader .. you take a narrow view of bills that passed with overwhelming majorities .. but just take a look at them .. notice anything about them?  Those are all bills that the Republicans love(and in some cases wrote) .. they are not bills that advanced Democratic priorities ... and that is the whole point ... you need 60 votes because of the filibuster threat and a weak Democratic caucus .. if we had a strong Majority Leader .. we wouldn't need 60(because we'd be able to peal off a few Republicans) .. but Reid is weak .. where is LBJ when we need him?

    Why not both? (4.00 / 4)
    So no, we don't need 60 votes to move progressive priorities.

    I hadn't thought about the voting dynamics in the way you've put it here, and your argument makes a lot of sense.  (You've given me a lot to think about!)  

    It still seems reasonable that the symbolic value of reaching that elusive 60 Senators would be a big help in empowering Senators to take a more progressive attitude.  As well, the more Democratic senators that enjoy the advantage of incumbency and seniority, the easier our recruiting and fundraising job becomes in future years.  

    So while we may not literally "need" 60 votes, it seems to me that getting 60 votes would still help us a long way towards getting what we do need.  


    that is a great point (4.00 / 3)
    You phrased exactly what Feingold said in his quote that I excerpted in opening the day; 60 votes will remove the excuse for inaction.  And in some ways, the 60 vote barrier, just because it is now the anchor value for action due to repetition, has become a real barrier.

    [ Parent ]
    Which is why it's more important to target moderate republicans (4.00 / 1)
    and LieberDems in blue states.  Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe would likely be repaced by real progressives.  If we swapped Whitehouse for Chafee, and swapped Harold Ford for Bob Corker, the progressive caucus would be weaker, and we would be getting even fewer bills through the Senate.  If we had Lamont in the Senate, well...

    Of course, the other thing we need to do is figure out a way to get Reid out of that Majority Leader's chair.  Him sitting there enables him to strengthen the center-right clumps and weaken the Progressive ones with favorable committee assignments, and by playing games with scheduling bills (for example, putting the Intel FISA bill on the floor and not the Judiciary one).  


    But the key point is that adding six more (4.00 / 7)
    Mary Landrieus and Ben Nelsons isn't going to do shit.  

    [ Parent ]
    Long story short (4.00 / 6)
    We need better Democrats in addition to more Democrats.  Sounds familiar.

    And you go a good distance explaining why.  Which is more important depends on what the battle is.  Right now we are all focused on FISA, where 60 wouldn't help at all.  

    But what about health care, energy and global warming?  That may take 60.  In fact, I hope it does as I'd rather see versions that Republicans can't vote for.


    right (4.00 / 1)
    Good points.  It's not that 60 votes is irrelevant to progressives entirely, but ignoring the internal networks to put 60 Ds in the Senate is missing the point.  The reason FISA is overwhelmingly going through is because the number of Senators really willing to go to bat for it and cause disruptions to other Senate priorities is probably in the low single digits.  Were that number in the high single digits or low teens we would have a much better chance of pulling this off, because they could work together to stop the bill.  And that same dynamic would work well with health care, energy, and global warming, with a slight twist.  

    There are progressive solutions to health care, energy, and global warming, and non-progressive solutions.  With or without 60 Democratic votes, the question is which solutions are considered as realistically having a chance of passing.  If you ignore the internal networks, you greatly increase the chances that really bad stuff will go through under the guise of 'this is all we're going to get'.


    [ Parent ]
    We need 60 votes (4.00 / 2)
    to break a fillibuster on Employee Free Choice Act. That will require 59 Democrats and Arlen Specter. Having 5 or 10 or 20 hard-core progressives will do nothing on this one piece of legislation without the raw votes.  

    But it will require 59 democrats willing to actually vote for cloture (4.00 / 1)
    And we have enough trouble with whip counts already.

    [ Parent ]
    EFCA is one are where we've already achieved that (4.00 / 1)
    All democrats and Lieberman (and even Ben Nelson and all the southern Dems) voted for cloture. No republicans voted for it except for Specter.

    [ Parent ]
    Everyone agrees more Democrats is better. (0.00 / 0)
    It's just a question of what our priorities should be. You give a great counter-example to Matt's thesis, but it doesn't answer the real question of where progressives should focus their efforts. There are benefits to having 60 Democratic senators and their are benefits to ensuring that the most progressive senators get elected. Quite frankly, it's hard to find a path to 60 without Franken, Allen, Merkley and Tom Udall. I think electing those four should be the first priority in the Senate, and electing 6 others is essentially gravy, since Warner, Shaheen, and Mark Udall are already looking so good.  

    The truth about John McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    Argues for concentrating our resources (3.00 / 4)
    I think Matt's analysis is basically sound.  Think back to the "Gang of 14" and the fight over filibustering judges.  Look at the Stevens-Inouye alliance.

    Basically, Matt's analysis is an argument for concentrating our resources behinds a smaller number of Senate candidates who will behave in ways that benefit progressive causes rather than go for the "more Democrats" line.  And it most certainly argues for not giving to the DSCC (or DCCC) because then you have no control over the money.  I'd suggest the following as the most benefocial races:

    1.  Jeff Merkley for the reasons Matt says, probably also Al Franken.

    2.  Tom Allen  (this is kind of a two-fer, becauase if Susan Collins goes the way of John Chaffee then Olympia Snowe, who is up in 2010, will get the message.

    3.  Begich in Alaska would knock off Stevens, one of the GOP's porcupines (even though his ethical challenges make him a liability.  Besides, if he won and then had to resign because of ill health, there'd be a younger GOP incumbent.

    4.  Rick Noriega, based on his statement against FISA.

    5.  The Udalls are certainly more progressive than their opposition, but I'm not sure they are what Matt's talking about, and their states are more conservative.  And they have plenty of money.

    Victories by Warner, Shaheen, Hagan, even Kleeb, in fact everyone but Rice in OK, would be nice, but probably not be the same kind of game changers.


    John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


    Udalls (4.00 / 1)
    Exactly, great fleshing out of this analysis.  Mark Udall is telegraphing his intentions to join the 'Blue Dog' center of the Senate.  Tom Udall has demonstrated a willingness to work with progressives in the House and has continued that streak in his Senate campaign.

    [ Parent ]
    Begich (0.00 / 0)
    while getting rid of the porcupine Stevens will help our network, Begich will probably be a lot like a Tim Johnson.  are the short term gains worth the longer term negatives?

    John McCain is dishonest

    [ Parent ]
    I'm getting to the point of letting... (0.00 / 0)
    the corporate/centrist Dems take care of themselves. Yeah, I want Stevens out of the senate, but as a progressive, I'd rather spend my limited time and resources on electing progressives. Our majority in the senate isn't on the line, and Republicans have shown what you can get accomplished with less than 60 votes. If a candidate is not going to support progressive ideals, then why should progressives bust their asses for them?

    The truth about John McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    Begich... (0.00 / 0)
    is hardly going to be a long-term negative.

    He's come out strongly opposed to FISA capitulation.

    He has taken a science-based position on global warming and supports setting national targets for - and increasing national investment in - renewable, sustainable and clean energy development.

    He's in favor of ending the Iraq War in a timely fashion.

    He opposes any attempt to privatize Social Security.

    He opposes Bush's illegal "assault on habeas corpus."

    He supports net neutrality.

    He's pro-choice.

    Really, the only substantive policy disagreement I have with him is drilling in ANWR, and it's a political reality that you can't get elected to a statewide office in Alaska if you oppose that... so, either we accept that there's no perfect candidate, or we just permanently write off Alaska for the Democrats.

    So where's the evidence that Begich would be a long-term negative? I'm interested in hearing why you'd think that.


    [ Parent ]
    Releasing Senators to Take the Safe Political Vote (0.00 / 0)
    I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis that the Senate functions in a unique fashion where networks matter and party identification only tells part of the story.  However, I think you're wrong to look at the vote margins on those pieces of legislation as the starting point for your argument.  On controversial and contentious policies, once it becomes clear that one party can't keep sufficient votes to uphold a fillibuster or defeat a bill, their leadership releases members to vote how they see fit.

    I don't know the political background of any of those policies to prove this, but i suspect if you talked to folks whipping those votes, it was much closer to 60-40 before the outcome became obvious.  If you're looking for another example of this, check out all of the House votes in the first 100 hours of the 110th Congress.  They were ovewhelming victories because Republicans knew they couldn't stop the Democrats and let their members vote free.

    Where I most clearly agree with the sentiment of the post is that electing the right people will always be a necessary but not sufficient part of winning the right policies.  No matter how successful this election turns out to be there will be members of Congress on the fence on issues we care about whether they're liberal Republicans or conservative Democrats.  (The post about Blue Dog PAC contribution is a good example that corporate interests will continue to find ways to influence folks in the middle.)  The key to getting 60 on any vote will always come down to creating the right type and amount of political pressure to push them over the edge.

    oh and some better leadership in the Senate could help.


    Building a progressive power block (4.00 / 1)
    Good post. Your post along with Kos;s from Daily Kos:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

    And the post at FiveThirtyEight:
    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

    Hit the nail on the head.

    This suggests the need for a PAC or oganization dedicated to a progressive bloc rather than a Democratic majority. It suggests the need to build outside of the Democratic structure.

    It would in this cycle have provided funding for the progressive candidates. It would also primary Democrats who fail to be be progressive.  The point of such efforts isn't to "win" but to push the Democrats toward the progressive column. By making them fearful of a leftward challenge, they are forced, as Obama doesn't feel the need to do right now for example, to triangulate, and at least consider that their actions have conquences from the left.

    I have long contended that the way towards the middle (because I am a left of center moderate) isn't to have a weak left and strong right. It's to have a strong right and strong left.  If there were truly a balancing of the polars like Obama claims, there is no way that all the legislation would always end right of center or just plain right.  That's how I am judging the context of what people say.

    One other thing- these people are politicians. Whether they are supporting a progressive power block due to desire or fear is irrelevant. I would argue that the Blue Dogs exist at the level they do not only because some members really are Blue Dogs, but because of the fear of not being a Blue Dog.  This is why primaries are important. This is why building infracstructure that starts, but does n't end with being a Democrat.

    Also, taking over infracstructure is i mportant behind the scene. Frontale assaults are a mistake.It allows for usurption by the existing power structure.

    One final point- even this cycle- it would be really useful for use if  you start to create a list of candidates whom you think reflect this progressive power block. This way we can have a cheat sheet for whom we should donate our money when we are trying to decide.


    Good points--let's follow up. (0.00 / 0)
    We can start at this point with supporting the best candidates out there who have at least a reasonable chance of winning.  Look at Chrisitunity's posts at Swing State on which candidates would shift the most toward the progressive end, because of their own progressiveness and/or the people they would replace.  That's a good starting point.  I did a similar post here with names.  It's also the point of our Better Democrats campaign.  Swing State also keeps a competitive race chart, as do CQ Politics and the Cool Political Report and many others that rank the races.

    We can also collect names of those on a "watch list" for the next Congress (Bush/Blue Dogs, basically) and start the fund to primary the worst of then on January 6, 2009, when the new Congress takes office.

    One further point about not concentrating solely on a couple of votes.  The Blue Dogs are a real pain in the neck because not only are they corporate, but they kill a lot of progressive stuff by  insisting it be paid for right now, which then draws GOP fire because it requires some taxes be raised or loopholes be closed (same thing).  Now I'm very well aware of our fiscal problems, but being so rigid is a way to kill progressive stuff while looking "principled," and Max Sawicky and Brad DeLong among others have argued that there are expansionist benefits of not reducing the deficit to zero.  We need people who will insist that we reduce the deficit by ending the horrendously costly and wasteful adventure in Iraq before short-changing the folks in the lowest 80%.

    John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


    [ Parent ]
    We should also focus on people who need our help. (4.00 / 2)
    We need to choose candidates who will appreciate what progressive activists have to offer their campaign. We don't have much to offer to campaign's like Mark Warner's. We could be decisive for Franken, Allen, or Merkley. Good politicians have good memories.

    The truth about John McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    The point is .. (0.00 / 0)
    not that you'll get the deficit to zero .. but that you don't spend like the Republicans did from 2001-2006 .. and have no way to pay for it .. deficits aren't necessarily bad things ... they are bad when they become large .. and cause the dollar to tank

    [ Parent ]
    Infrastructure and Blue Dogs... (0.00 / 0)
    bruhrabbit, your paragraph in the middle there seems to me to be slightly muddled, so I'm going to elaborate somewhat and see if I can make out what you're driving at.

    It seems to me as though the Blue Dogs are currently contributing to the progressive infrastructure to the extent that Democratic funds are allocated to progressive goals; however, their growing numbers represent an attempt to hijack the ideological superstructure of the party toward conservative ends.

    This would seem to support the argument that focus on increasing the number of progressives within the party would be much more effective than would indiscriminately pumping up party numbers (now that the simple majority gives control of the floor) because the larger the number of conservative Democrats elected, the less likely party funds will be allocated toward progressive pursuits (although on an individual basis, once progressives are in a position to steer the party, more conservative members with a knack for fundraising would be abided to advantage).


    [ Parent ]
    Hijacking is exactly right (0.00 / 0)
    What happens is that the conservatives simply will become Democrats, not that you are increasing the number of progressives. Democrat=progressive. It doesn't equal left of center.  

    [ Parent ]
    re triangulation (0.00 / 0)
    The point I am making is that you won't end triangulation or politicians for being politicians, but the goal instead is to use that nature toward your advantage by creating a power center that is progressive. Thereby creating a reason to triangulate to the left as well as right.

    Nonsense (0.00 / 0)
    The blogosphere is slowly degrading into a large version of Slate: people think we're smart because we're contrarian.

    A lot of the "senate dynamics" you talk about used to be the case.  The Senate used to be more collegial than the House.  But for every bill you listed there, none were ideologically conservative votes except possibly cloture on Alito.

    And for every one of those you've got, there's many more that more or less break down along party lines.  And enforcing strict party discipline on "progressive" agenda items may be the only way to get them passed--at least on cloture votes.

    Votes authorizing wars or funding or some kind of technocratic program can always garner minority votes because you can throw them a bone: a facility that creates 10,000 jobs in their state or something.

    But things like universal health care, public campaign finance, voting reform, tax reform, etc. you're going to need as many people as you can get.

    Never mind the psychological advantage you can get by saying you can never filibuster us.  May not be true, but it sure puts them in a corner on what battles they want to pick.

    The post is nonsense, but I'm sure you could get a job at Slate with this as an audition.


    where in this post do you reach the positions you do? (0.00 / 0)
    I know you call yourself an attorney, but frequently I don't even see , logically speaking, how you can come up with such broadstroke and often completely irelevant formulation.

    For example - let's just take one example. How does one come up with "universal healthcare" if one doesn't have a strong progressive push for it? Is there any rightward push for real healthcare reform, if so- point it out. You called this post nonsense, and the provide examples of things we will work with the other side- so its behooves you to prove your position.

    Also, "picking battles' for example assumes that we choose battles we are actually going to fight. Give examples of those. Certainly SCHIP doesn't count since we caould achieve that now with a majority and a President who won't veto it.


    [ Parent ]
    Look at History (4.00 / 1)
    It might be useful to take a look at previous congresses that did pass progressive legislation and see what the ideological makeup of those congresses looked like.  

    No longer relevant (4.00 / 1)
    Largely because of the realignment that put the Southern Dems into the GOP and now is putting more liberal GOPers into the more liberal camp or replacing them in the case of office holders.

    There have been very few really progressive moments.  The most signficant ones were in 1964-66 (civil rights) and in 1972-77 on environmental legislation.  The Dems were in control both times, but were aided by liberal GOPers that offset the conservative Dems.  It is always going to be that way, but more and more the conservative Dems are gone or GOPers and the liberal GOPers are just gone period.  Plus, I can't remember a time ever (and I go back to the '40s) when a Congress was as lockstep with a President as happened from 2003-2006, and that set Bush in the mode he carried over in 2007 to the present of not negotiating with the Dems at all.

    John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


    [ Parent ]
    Ideology, not party... (0.00 / 0)
    Largely because of the realignment that put the Southern Dems into the GOP and now is putting more liberal GOPers into the more liberal camp or replacing them in the case of office holders.

    As I read it, astrodem didn't refer to strict party labels, (s?)he referred to "ideological makeup"; and I think you can perform such an analysis even though the party boundaries have been in flux over time.


    [ Parent ]
    Women in the Senate (0.00 / 0)
    I don't think it matters substantively, but I find it curious that reasonable targets are probably more female than the Senate as a whole, with Republicans like Snowe and Collins and more conservative Democrats like Landrieu, Lincoln, and McCaskill.    I've noted in the past that the Senate New Democrat Coalition is disproportionately female, and I assume that group would include some of the ideal targets for electing better Democrats.  Obviously, some women might be replaced by women, but I can see some people complaining if a progressive push leads to replacing several high-profile female politicians with (more progressive) males.

    Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

    As long as we promote good women to the House (0.00 / 0)
    And then promote them to the Senate that's ok with me.  the House women are more progressive on the whole, with Melissa Bean I think the only female Blue Dog.  We ought to be developing a strong bench who can move up to Governorships and the Senate.  As long as that is generally happening, losing a few Collinses and Snowes is ok.  McCaskill is pretty liberal on a few issues.  It's the ones that come from more liberal places that are the problem.

    John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm interested in how to apply this theory. (4.00 / 1)
    Would it make more sense for progressives focus more resources on getting Franken, Allen, Merkley, and Tom Udall elected than spreading out and going for 60 with a lot of center-right Dems? It wouldn't mean not supporting the more centrist Dem candidates. It would mean focusing progressive resources on progressives and letting centrist/corporate Dem donors pick up the slack on the others.

    I think I can go for that. I'm sick of having progressive votes, efforts, and money being taken for granted. We are the activist base of the party, and we rarely get any credit for it.

    Fine, Kay Hagan will get my vote in November, but I've got better candidates to spend my money and time on. You can phonebank from anywhere in the country.

    The truth about John McCain.


    Great closing line (0.00 / 0)
    What we need are a committed group of Senators - perhaps as small as 25 or 30 - without whom the other clumps can't get anything done.

    I like this idea of building a solid nucleus around Feingold, Brown, Saunders, Whitehouse, Kennedy, Kerry ... uhhhhhhh ... did I mention Feingold?

    How many do we actually have now that we can count on?


    Let's count em (0.00 / 0)
    Feingold, Brown, Sanders, Leahy, Whitehouse, Kennedy, Kerry, Harkin, Boxer, Dodd, Dorgan, Wyden

    Clump Two: still pretty damn liberal, but slightly more in-club:  Reed, Levin, Murray, Lautenberg, Cardin, Bingaman, Byrd, Biden

    That's 12 in the first group, 8 in the second, for a total of... 20.  

    Wow, that does suck.  20 out of 51?

    We gained a whole lot though when Dodd decided to leave the second group and join the first (I remember reading a WaPo article called "the radicalization of Chris Dodd").  We would also gain a lot if Kerry would decide that his destiny is to become a high-profile advocate for the liberal end of these arguments.  If Kerry were to throw in his lot with Harkin, Feingold, and Dodd, it would be a very nice boost.  He's not the most articulate advocate, but he brings that "former nominee" cachet that Gore has been so good at using.


    [ Parent ]
    Suggestions...? (0.00 / 0)
    So, since you bring up Boxer, I'm curious what you think would be an effectual (and not horrifically time-consuming) means by which an independent California progressive such as I am could contribute to bringing about your strategy.

    60 (or 61) may not be the magic numbers that many seem to think (0.00 / 0)
    I'm not at all convinced that having 61 Senators will translate into consistent cloture voting.

    We should be working for both quality and quantity because, by and large, we can.

    In the end, though, I'd rather have 57 Senators who are on average significantly more liberal than the magical but ideologically mixed 61 Senators.







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