Obama Seen As Less Liberal; Polls Don't Change

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 11:43


The conventional wisdom is that, as a result of a recent statement on guns, a recent flip-flop on FISA, and a conservative toned television advertising campaign, Obama is "moving to the center" now that the primary campaign is over. According to Rasmussen, that CW is mirrored by the shifting perceptions of the general public, who view Obama as less liberal than they did one month ago:

During the Primary campaign season, Obama was viewed as politically liberal by an ever-increasing number of voters that grew to 67% by early June. However, since clinching the nomination, he has reversed that trend and is now seen as liberal by only 56%.

Twenty-two percent (22%) characterize the Democrat as Very Liberal, down from 36% early last month.

McCain similarly has been seen as politically conservative by more and more voters, also hitting 67% a month ago, but he is still viewed that way by 66%. While19% saw him as Very Conservative in early June, that figure now has risen to 28%.

So, now that Obama is perceived as moving to the center, while McCain is still perceived as conservative, Obama's poll numbers should improve, right? Wrong. According to the daily tracking poll from the same polling firm, Rasmussen, the campaign has not changed at all as a result of Obama being perceived as less liberal:

  • Obama has been at 49% every single day since June 22nd
  • Obama has been at 48%, 49% or 50% every single day since June 8th
  • Obama has led by between 4-6% every day since June 23rd, and in all but three days since June 11th. In the other three days, he twice led by 3%, and once led by 7%.

Poll movement of this small degree is not really movement at all, but rather "statistical noise." So, while there has been substantial movement in how liberal Obama is perceived as being, and even though McCain is viewed just as conservative as ever, there has been no movement whatsoever in the national matchup. This is very strong proof, even scientific, that Obama's move to the center has not won him any votes, and that the perceived change in the ideological gap between Obama and McCain did not impact their relative vote share.

Now, whether Obama's centrist drift will win him the adulation of the national media and $2,300 donors is another question. There will be more data on that soon, but I think it is pretty safe to say that, generally speaking, The Village and large doors love this sort of thing.

Update: There is a diary up at Daily Kos contradicting mine by claiming that Obama's move to the center worked because it improved Obama's favorable ratings. I disagree, because higher favorables do not necessarily lead to better voter preference numbers. The evidence backs me up, as e can see from the final poll that measured both Obama and Clinton against McCain, along with favorables for both candidates:

CBS News Poll. May 30-June 3, 2008. N=930 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 4.
Obama 48%--42% McCain
Clinton 51%--41% McCain

Clinton favorables: Favorable 41%, Not Favorable 39%, Undecided 18%
Obama favorables: Favorable 41%, Not Favorable 31%, Undecided 22%

Despite Clinton's 8% lower net favorables, she performed 4% better against McCain in the voter preference trial heat. It isn't about favorables--it is about voter preference. VP is the only relevant data to demonstrate whether a strategy worked or not.

Chris Bowers :: Obama Seen As Less Liberal; Polls Don't Change

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It might earn him some love from Broder .. (4.00 / 1)
but they still love McCain .. and in the end .. the TradMed will try their best to drag Obama down

It must be love-hate because they also love saying flip flop with Ds not Rs (0.00 / 0)


No, Wait! (4.00 / 1)
Since the perception of Obama as liberal has dropped by double-digits, and McCain's conservative perception has increased by double digits, but they remain tied... that means we live in a fundamentally conservative nation!  Right?

I can't figure out all these numbers, but I know that it must be good for the Republicans.

Tim Wolfe


Indeed (4.00 / 1)
Everything is always good for Republicans.

[ Parent ]
Well .. (4.00 / 3)
it is good for Rudy!! ... right?

[ Parent ]
Is he really moving to the center? (4.00 / 2)
I am not happy with Obama on the FISA issue and, on that issue, we have seen a move to the right.  

However, other than that, I am not seeing any real movement.    He has not changed his position on Iraq (despite what some may say) and his positions on the death penalty and the right to own guns are non-issues or very tiny issues.  

On the big issues (Iraq, the economy, climate and the environment, energy, etc.) there has been no movement that I can detect.    


policy vs perception (4.00 / 6)
Even if his actual spelt out policies don't change, a change in emphasis and a concerted effort on his part to highlight illiberal parts of his platform is noteworthy.

This matters because implementing policy requires a mandate for it.  If he runs emphasizing the conservative aspects of his platform, how will he get to the liberal stuff?  Just because it's in some pdf on his web site doesn't mean he'll be able to jam it past the bush dogs.


[ Parent ]
Exactly (0.00 / 0)
This is why his emphasis on tax-cuts piss me off. Also, I don't really think anyone can realistically call faith-based initiatives progressive or even centrist (it doesn't matter if this is a flip-flop or not). Same goes for talking about abstinence-education (and no other progressive solutions for lowering rates of abortion) and his general tone in the Relevant magazine interview.

Creating political consensus on this non-sense will really be a blow to the progressive agenda. That is why his health-care ads against Hillary Clinton were dumb. He pushed back against her mandates using Harry and Louise and all other right-wing crap, that will come back to haunt him if/when he pushes through his own health-care legislation.

Anyway, lets hope things will change and more progressive values will be promoted and highlighted from here on out.


[ Parent ]
The faith based thing is a ruse meant to trap republicans... (0.00 / 0)
...Fox News' Barnes called him out on it...  He actually was impressed with Obama 'cos it forces a wedge issue on Republicans (when's the last time any democrat did that?) that is essentially meaningless.  Since the Obama plan insists on no hiring discrimination or prostelization, very few "faith based" organizations are going to actually apply for grants.  They don't want to lose control.

So, the effect of Obama's plan is to dig into republican territory without really conceding anything but a talking point.  He can say that he's for faith based initiatives while making sure the program is neutered to the point of being irrelevant.

Barnes called it a brilliant move on Obama's part.  He actually seemed mad, 'cos it was so successful in playing a wedge issue against conservatives... and that hasn't been done by Democrats in... well, not for as long as I can remember

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
a contrarian read (4.00 / 1)
Which I am not endorsing except for one point it raises, that Obama's favourables have risen, and unfavourables fallen.

dkos diary

But I note that diary conspicuously leaves out the actual voting preference numbers.  More people might like Obama, but they're not yet willing to say they'll vote for him over it.  



yeah -- it is hard for me to see these numbers as (0.00 / 0)
anything but contradictory, meaning that analyses of them can justifiably come to opposite conclusions (but only by downplaying one set of numbers).  In bowers' case, he downplays the favorability numbers, which tend to show that Obama's highlighting of his conservative side, shall we say, has helped make him more likely to be elected. kubla, on the other hand, ignores the topline numbers, which could indicate that voters don't vote for you just because they see you as "moderate," and thus there is nothing strategic about Obama's moves.  

seems to me that time will tell.


[ Parent ]
Favorables (0.00 / 0)
People don't win elections based on favorables. They win based on voter preference. Really, that is all that matters.  

[ Parent ]
true -- but the election is not today. (0.00 / 0)
as poblano pointed out in his response to this post: having high favorables and being seen as moderate can be an insulating thing, and is putting mccain in a more difficult position strategically.  

also, as poblano points out, it is not certain that the VP numbers haven't improved -- his model shows them having improved recently, despite the negative coverage of Obama's moves and pseudo moves to the center, or right, or what have you.  


[ Parent ]
Maybe too early to tell (0.00 / 0)
Obama is still basically an unknown to large numbers of voters, or he is partially known but viewed with some suspicion.  He has emphasized some of his views that would play better with conservative audiences in conservative places.  But I don't think he changed at all on Iraq--that is GOP noise to obscure what McCain's stand really is and how unpopular it is.  He's now pivoting to the economy and energy, and being much more visionary and less conservative.  He's holding steady at a few points lead and as the DKos diary referenced above, he's overcoming some of the negatives that are in part built in because of his race and name and in part manufactured by the Rovians who recently were brought into the McCain campaign, along with their allies in the press.

Much of this is just noise.  We have to wait and look for real trends.  I'm not so worried about the conservative aspects of Obama's philosophy aas I am about any potential conservative (meaning not bold and imaginative) trend in his campaign.  But as I say, I can be patient.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
not moving to the center (4.00 / 2)
Obama ran in the primaries as a centrist, he is now moving to the right.

So what you're saying is (0.00 / 0)
It doesn't seem to help him poll-wise, but it doesn't seem to hurt him either, at least in the short run.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

Seems so (4.00 / 1)
The data appears to back that up. Basically, things like FISA and "moving to the center" are mainly inside baseball that most voters don't care about.  

[ Parent ]
And how do you know voters don't care? ... (0.00 / 0)
we get what the TradMed gives us ... and the TradMed doesn't cover FISA ... they'd rather cover the stupid shit .. like whether McCain has slathered on enough Aqua Velva to make Tweety swoon

[ Parent ]
My question is whether it makes voters more receptive (0.00 / 0)
To listening to his ideas and considering his policies.  He is very clear in "Audacity of Hope" and in the Rolling Stone interview that he believes that voters have to connect with a candidate on a values level--have to feel that the candidate "cares about people like me" or "shares my values", as the pollsters put it, in other words come to trust the candidate, before they really hear the policy messages.  I happen to agree, and think that is one reason that the Dem message isn't heard better.  Obama has this problem in spades, so to speak, because of racial fears and anxiety his name provokes.  I think that we just have to watch as he pivots to issues like the economy, energy and health care, the issues which (plus Iraq) are what the public really cares about.  Will it translate into votes?  Only time will tell.  It seems to have in places like Montana and Alaska and a few otehr places.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Makes sense (4.00 / 2)
Which is also why the most effective attacks against Obama fall into the "he isn't like me" category, such as Rev. Wright and "Bittergate."

Time, and more data, will tell.


[ Parent ]
And he is pivoting--to bankruptcy (4.00 / 1)
Here's a discussion of Obama's proposals on bankruptcy reform from Steve Benen.  This is what I think the other stuff sets up.
For all the talk about Obama reversing course and scurrying to the middle, he keeps making high-profile moves that undermine the narrative. Last week, Obama announced that he opposes California's conservative ballot measure on gay marriage. This week, he's targeting an awful bankruptcy bill.

Barack Obama on Tuesday proposed changing bankruptcy laws to fast-track the process for military families, help seniors keep their homes, and protect people recovering from natural disasters.

The Democratic presidential hopeful also accused Republican rival John McCain of repeatedly siding with the banking industry, saying, "When it comes to strengthening the safety net for hardworking families, he's been part of the problem, not part of the solution."



John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
I don't like anything he's done in the last two weeks, but (0.00 / 0)
it doesn't have to win him votes. it can simply prevent him from losing votes, and it will have done its job.

that said, his actions now could still pay dividends much later, when self-described independents really get down to making a solid choice.


Large Doors (0.00 / 0)
Chris, that's a pretty intriguing, maybe even accurate, typo in your final sentence.  :)

I thought it was (4.00 / 1)
Harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to get through a the eye of a needle.  Now I find that large donors can, indeed, get through large doors.  I guess it's just a matter of faith.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
So, basically, Obama hasn't won (4.00 / 1)
any significant new voters by moving rightward (I think "moving to the Center" is a total misnomer. It's "the Center" only as defined by the DC elite).

But, on the other hand, it seems he hasn't LOST any votes either, which was the political calculation he took, it seems, successfully.

The people who didn't like his FISA flip-flop and the other rightward pronouncements are STILL probably going to vote for him, because voting for McCain is simply not an option for them (us, I'm one).

So it seems he lost part of his gamble (at least in the short term) because he didn't attract any new voters, but then, he won part of it, because he didn't lose any voters.

The question, it seems, is whether those dissatisfied with his latest political pronouncements will show displeasure in more active ways than joining the anti-FISA group on his website (I did).  Will we not give money (I gave a long lecture on FISA to the Obama fund-raiser who recently called me, I didn't give any $), or will we decline to volunteer?  Most importantly, will we show up at the polls?

We'll show (at least I will), because the choice is too stark to stay home.    

Soldiers are required to do their jobs when politicians fail to do theirs.


Al Giordano on Obama (4.00 / 1)
http://narcosphere.narconews.c...

Almost without exception, those that buy the media definition of "left" and "right" in US politics (which assigns, bass-ackwards, some authoritarian impulses to "liberals" and some libertarian impulses to "conservatives") have so little understanding of the libertarian current that pumps through the veins of many on both sides of that divide that they've missed the real story altogether.

Many conservative or economic libertarians, for example, are also civil libertarians that see some of the greatest abuses and harms by big government being caused by the US criminal justice and prison systems, to cite one huge example of state intrusion. For them, the difference between Obama and McCain is stark as night and day, and lo' and behold: Obama's the libertarian. Here's video of Obama, last September in New Hampshire, talking through a head cold with a compelling, common-sense, narrative on how that judicial system must be changed so as to stop over-clogging the system with nonviolent drug offenders: ...

When close observers of the 2008 election in the United States speak of a very possible electoral realignment come November, it's really a consequence of the greater convergence between libertarian-thinking Americans on both the right and the left. The moves that Obama is making toward the general election that confound and sometimes anger parts of the traditional Democratic or activist base are, in reality, part of the wooing process toward what may be the largest "swing vote" group of all: Independents, Republicans, new voters, and, yes, alienated Americans who haven't voted in years or decades, whose libertarian tendencies reach beyond a narrow economic focus into all aspects of government intrusion into the daily lives of the people. (During the Democratic primaries, this difference played itself out in the dispute between the Clinton-Edwards health care plans, which mandated that all Americans surrender their corporal sovereignty and privacy to the medical and insurance company establishment, and Obama's, which universally gave all a right to those services, but without forcing it upon those of us that don't want to surrender our bodies and minds to that form of private-sector state power.)

What many mistakenly refer to as "moving toward the center" or "moving toward the right" is often a case of their sudden realization of positions that the Democratic nominee has consistently held all along. It was those people's lack of investigative rigor that led them to presume that this was your father's Democratic nominee. ...

Obama's FISA cave is an obvious anti-libertarian move to the center -- if one defines the center as the Beltway K-Street axis of Corporate Influence.

That Obama is inexperienced and somewhat naive as to the ways of Washington have always been my biggest concern -- his self confidence and good intentions are not enough to overcome the reactionary status quo, and real change will require more than slogans.


The part I agree with is Giordano's observation that Obama hasn't moved (0.00 / 0)
With the exception of his stance on filibustering FISA, Obama has not changed.  At most, there is just a different emphasis on long-standing positions.

[ Parent ]
In fairness to Obama and Al Giordano (4.00 / 1)
You might have included the conclusion of his piece:
"Social Justice Libertarians" is a term that my colleague Harry Levine invented almost two decades ago, and it defined many of us that do not see the tyranny of an unregulated market as a somehow kinder or more just despot, but that do have common ground with conservative libertarians in that we do want the government out of our lives in so many ways that Democrats and Republicans alike have long presumed were their natural birthrights to meddle in them.

When we see a nominee that, from the beginning of his campaign, has broken with Democratic Party orthodoxy, we're not immediately plagued by knee-jerk reactions, nor do we howl that he's supposedly moving right. Nor have we learned to expect that anyone in politics would march lockstep with our views. We've never been in a position to imagine purity tests (and the whole concept of purity testing is anathema to free thinkers, anyway). I think I probably speak for many that are just simply relieved that the mold of the tired old media-fed and false definitions of right and left, as they pertain to US politics, has been broken, and amidst its rubble there's a new space for us to stand upon, too.

Much to ponder in these statements.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
a look at red state polls (0.00 / 0)
would be a better indication if his campaign strategy is working. national tracking polls are irrelevant. this a fight for the purple and red states, and there are plenty of polls out there that show obama improving and even leading in places won by bush. with ohio and florida in jeopardy he has to look elsewhere for electoral votes.

Wisdom of the crowds (0.00 / 0)
Obama highlights a few different parts of his record and the crowd accurately says no real change.

Much more accurate than the individuals who say he is moving to the center.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


Not true for FISA (0.00 / 0)
That was change.  Now whether those wise "crowds" even know or have a chance to be informed about what's at stake in the FISA fight is a whole 'nother question, though it's interesting that Slashdot -- a non-political website about technology -- seems to be more interested in the enhanced domestic spying provisions in this "better compromise" FISA bill than Obama is.

John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance



[ Parent ]
breakdowns (4.00 / 1)
Isn't it likely that the change in perceptions of his liberalness is happening among liberals?  Rasmussen doesn't offer party or ideology crosstabs, but it certainly would make sense that liberals seeing him flip on FISA, make centrist noise on the death penalty and abortion, etc., would come to see him as less liberal in general.

This gets so confusing! (0.00 / 0)
If you accept that the "far left liberal" label hurt Kerry, then I suppose it helps Obama to define himself away from that label.

But Obama has to move beyond merely being tolerable to actually being the choice of the majority. I assume that's the second part of the strategy(?????)


Maybe candidate preference follows approval change. (0.00 / 0)
I am not enough of a wonk to know the longitudinal data and stuff about the direction of causation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was like this:

First, people start seeing the candidates in a new light, and afterwards they revise their candidate preference. It would certainly seem more natural than the other way around. So let's see if the candidate preference numbers move. Chris seems to think they won't, but I think it makes sense that they will.  


The impact of his actions (0.00 / 0)
has probably not been reflected in the polls

While people may feel he is less Liberal that doesn't mean that it would change their voting behavior right now.

However when this could matter is when McCain breaks out the ol trusty "Obama is the most Liberal Senator in Conress" schtick.  If people don't really believe that he is liberal at all then the attack dies still born.

Personally I think Obama will tack left again in a few months.  After softening his liberalness he will begin to move back to the Left.  But that is purely opinion on my part.


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