Standing At The Nexus of Change

by: Sara Robinson

Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:00


(I'm going to steal Jon's thunder here and welcome Sara Robinson of (one of my personal favourite blogs) Orcinus as the next guest-blogger here at Open Left.  If you ever thought racism was just a problem of the past, or that it went away on its own, Orcinus will disabuse you of that.  Jon, feel free to add anything I may have missed you wanted to say by way of introduction. - promoted by Daniel De Groot)

What did Hillary's campaign -- and, ultimately, her failure -- mean for progressives? My offering is a meditation in four parts.

I
Hillary was quite possibly the last great feminist heroine we'll see from a passing generation -- that early 1945-1955 cohort of Boomer women -- that produced a historically singular crop of them. And that, in the end, was both her glory and her curse.

Sara Robinson :: Standing At The Nexus of Change
The women my age and older who found so much inspiration in her campaign have been down forty years of hard road together, breaking the first rough trails of modern feminism every dogged step of the way. They took quantities of crap that younger women cannot imagine; and won battles that utterly transformed the world for those of us who followed.

But pioneer life is hard, and the grim truth is that you don't always find the paradise you set out for when you were young and full of energy. And the journey changes you, sometimes in ways you could not have forseen and would not have chosen.

I've walked enough of this trail myself to be hauling plenty of baggage of my own. I viscerally understand the feeling that we have earned our place at the table, and we're owed this last piece of validation -- a president who speaks for us -- before we exit stage left.  And while I was never a Hillary partisan, I shared the excitement so many of us of a certain age felt at the possibility that this time, the last glass ceiling was finally within rock-throwing range.

But what we learned from Hillary's campaign is not how far we've come, but -- after all we've survived -- just how far we still have left to go. That's a sad thing to realize this far down the road. And, ironically, black America is probably feeling pretty much the same way about the uglier moments of Obama's campaign. We stopped having national conversations on race and gender somewhere in the early Reagan years; but the rampant sexism and racism of this campaign -- too much of it coming from clueless white men and women in the media, who are clearly still trading in horrific sterotypes of both women and African-Americans in power -- reminded us that we didn't stop having them because anything got resolved. We stopped because people were tired, worn out, and had yelled themselves hoarse and deaf, and wanted to go home and raise their kids and think about something else for a while.

Well, that while's over. And we're left confronting the fact that -- goddamit! -- most of that work is still undone, and we're going to get to spend our final decades having those conversations all over again.

II
Let's be clear on this: the whole blacks-versus-women frame was a false one from the get go. You could hardly design something more exquisitely calculated to split the party along its most crucial faultline than that breathless "Blacks or Women? Who Gets To Make History?" narrative that dominated the political season for six straight months. It was set up to absolutely guarantee that one of the party's two most important constituencies would inevitably end up with hurt feelings, and might even withhold support as a result.

And damned if it didn't work. Ugly things got said all around that left everybody with bad blood --- let's please be grownups and admit that it wasn't just one side, and nobody gets to be the Bigger Victim here -- and played hell with party unity. I'm sure Karl Rove is happier than Chris Matthews sucking down ribs at a John McCain barbecue about all this; but we need to take note of what happened here and make sure we don't let ourselves be played this way again.

We would have done well to understand that frame earlier, question it harder, and search out its proponents more carefully. Patching things up is going to take a long time. Worse: it's going to slow us down at a time when we need to moving faster and more cohesively than we ever have.

III
One of the most common things I heard from Hillary's female supporters was: "It's our turn." As someone who takes a very long view of history -- and who likes to believe that its recurring past patterns sometimes tell us interesting things about the likely future -- I'm not inclined to agree.

For 150 years, women's rights advances have pretty reliably followed African-American rights gains by about 10-15 years -- and were almost always precipitated by them. The original suffragist movement was a direct outgrowth of the abolitionist movement; and most of its early founders were members of both. The feminist revolution of the 1970s likewise grew directly out of the civil rights struggles of the late 1950s and early 60s.

And there's a logic to this. White men, as holders of privilege, seem to be more easily persuaded to share it with other Penis-Americans than they do with women. (And even then, they extend it to men of color on very limited terms, inviting them into the game only after they've thoroughly rigged it to look fair, while guaranteeing that they'll continue to win.)  In the years that follow, these guys invariably find their own wives and daughters coming to them, arguing that if black men can vote/go to college/own property/whatever, then how can they continue to withhold those same privileges from the women they love so dearly?

It's a reasonable enough argument (despite the strongly racist and classist overtones that are too often part of these negotiatons), so white women soon get their own version of the goodies, too, typically within half a generation of African-American men. And then the conversation stops. Black men and white women are all at the party now, so then...uh...that's everybody, right?

This repeating dynamic is why so many women of color see feminism as a white women's movement; and why brown, yellow, and red men don't always feel solidarity with the struggles of their black brothers. The sisters are all in it together, arm-in-arm -- right up until the white girls get theirs. And then then their attention always somehow gets diverted to other things, and the black and brown women are left to figure out the rest on their own. Likewise, Latino, Native American, and Asian men often get their rights as a sort of accidental afterthought, usually long after white women have come to take them for granted.  And so it goes.

Not a particularly inspiring or attractive picture -- but it's the way this stuff has always gone down in America, and I'm not seeing any compelling reasons this time around should be any different.  Given this history, it makes sense to me that we'd elect a black president first, and then a woman sometime in the decade or two that followed. Once America extends a privilege or right to black men, it becomes much easier for white women to step forward and claim it as well.   And while it's not the news a lot of Hillary supporters want to hear -- and cold comfort indeed if you're not a white woman or a black man -- Obama's nomination is likely a positive sign that if you're white and female, your turn really is coming, and soon.

IV
The real conflict that defined the choice between Hillary and Obama wasn't about melanin content or X chromosome status. It was about a generational hand-off of power -- a demographic shift that Obama saw coming, and Hillary did not.

This long primary exposed the crucial fact that the torch is, at long last, really being passed to a new generation of Americans. As of this year, for the first time, Generation X and the upcoming Millennial voters form a rising political tide that's big enough to swamp the Boomers in the voting pool. (For more about this trend, see Millennial Makeover
by Murray Winograd and Michael Hais.) This is likely to be a new and unwelcome experience for the Boomers, who by sheer dint of numbers have dominated every election since the bulk of them started voting in 1968.

Bring on the flamethrowers, but I'm going to say it out loud: Most of America under 50 is sick to tears of the way Boomers -- both left and right -- do politics. They're fed up with that confrontational eat-shit Nixonland political style that's defined everything for 40 years. It's rigid and polarizing and hostile to compromise, and the country is suffering mightily because it's paralyzed us so thoroughly. Hell, even the GOPpers are over it: they're reaching back to a Silent generation candidate rather than put up another Boomer. (If anyone uses the word "Vietnam" between now and November, violence may ensue. In fact: I'll quite cheerfully hurl the first brick myself.)

Obama, standing on the cusp of Gen X himself, looked at the numbers; and he carefully crafted his campaign to appeal to this emerging group, who see far more clearly what's not getting done, and don't have a lot of patience with anyone who seems likely to let their personal pursuit of power get in the way of getting the country back on track. They're done with Nixon, Reagan, Bushes, and yes, both Clintons, too.

What Hillary was offering by way of contrast was "experience" -- that is, more of the Boomer same -- in a change election where many voters considered experience with the old politics a significant negative. Going forward, the progressive movement needs to mark this lesson well, and a start to seriously address the demographic shift that's now in progress. Hillary showed us the hard way that the time of talking about the past is over. From now on, we need to stay relentlessly focused on looking ahead.

These younger generations are going to do politics in a very different way. Where we Boomers tended to be rugged indvidualists who stood outside the system, questioned authority relentlessly, and demanded that things change to suit us, these younger voters like to form up teams, get inside a system, take it over, and remake it from the inside out to suit them. They're not afraid of rules and structure; and they don't have a lot of patience with people they see as tantrum-throwers, or those who'd rather stand outside and offer critiques than get involved and do something constructive. These are important cultural differences that could lead to some serious miscommunication if we're not careful.

They're also very comfortable with authority -- a trait that tends to make Boomers extremely uncomfortable, until we realize that they learned it at our very own knees. As parents, teachers, and coaches, we worked very hard to be honest, credible, trustworthy authorities for the generations that followed us. Their alarmingly eager willingness to put their trust in leaders is, ironically, an impressive measure of how well we succeeded.

The hard part is going to be trusting them in return. If the old guard tries to hold on too tightly, or puts up too much resistance to their changing agenda, we risk alienating them, squandering our own hard-won authority, and perhaps turning these young voters off of progressive politics for life. It's not an overstatement to say that how we treat them in this election, and the next one, will very likely determine the fate of  American progressivism for the next 40 years. This generation is the most naturally progressive one we've seen in our lifetimes -- but that won't last if we handle the hand-off badly.

What we need to take away from Hillary's candidacy is the strong understanding that something is shifting in the progressive universe; and that what lies ahead is going to be a sharp left turn from the four decades past. The legacy of this year's primary will include freshly renewed conversations on the meaning of race and gender; a radical shift in the way Americans approach change; and the arrival of the vast new wave of reinforcements who are going to take the movement some very different directions. Hillary's success -- and failure --  came about at the nexus point of all those shifts, at once foreshadowing a tantalizingly different future and at the same time putting a final exclamation point on the politics of an era now passed.


Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Excellent Diary (4.00 / 2)
Well thought out, very articulate presentation.  You gave me another perspective on why Democrats voted the way they did in the primaries.  I am an ardent supporter of Barrack Obama and I think much of the reasons for that can be traced to the characteristics you describe of the Gen-X voter (even though I am at the trail of the boomer gen).  Optimism I think is the key word for me.  Optimism that we can fix the big problems (energy, health care, social security, education), optimism that it will be done by bridging sides (left and right), optimism that people can change and work together using the system even with the rules :).  Thanks again for submitting this diary!  

Yes, absolutely excellent diary (4.00 / 1)
I'm 65, white and gay, participated in the history described and agree with this analysis--it really gets it right both factually and the spirit of it.

And I concur heartily with the analysis of the generational shift in politics, and being just in the pre-Boomer (Silent) generation really welcomed the emphasis on something other than take-no-prisoners politics that promised only more polarization and more distraction from and neglect of the very serious problems that face this nation.  That's fundamentally why I supported Obama from early 2007 on.  We really, really need to put problem-solving and governance ahead of score-settling and purity demands.  

Yes Obama made a mistake on FISA, but he is the best chance we have for correcting the system beginning next year.  Yes, he was a little too fuzzy on reproductive rights for my tastes, but if it gets some people comfortable enough to vote for him, ok with me.  And just getting so many people enthusiastic about politics is a real feat.  It's not the job of us elders to stand in the way or demand that things be like they were but to caution where needed based on our experience.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
She ain't dead yet . . . (4.00 / 3)
Hillary was quite possibly the last great feminist heroine we'll see from a passing generation  . .

How  about "Hillary is quite possibly . . . "


But does she get another go? (0.00 / 0)
I would suspect no, and if even if she does, it'll be as much more of an elder stateswoman role. It doesn't seem like she can run as a trailbreaker - since she and Obama have both broken that trail pretty conclusively.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
I am wondering something .. (0.00 / 0)
And damned if it didn't work. Ugly things got said all around that left everybody with bad blood --- let's please be grownups and admit that it wasn't just one side, and nobody gets to be the Bigger Victim here -- and played hell with party unity. I'm sure Karl Rove is happier than Chris Matthews sucking down ribs at a John McCain barbecue about all this; but we need to take note of what happened here and make sure we don't let ourselves be played this way again.

I've read enough about the charges of sexism and racism between the two camps.  I am curious what the responsibility of the two candidates are re: people like Tweety.  Is it really Obama's place to defend Hillary from the sexist attacks by Tweety?  And how would Versailles react if Obama did defend Hillary from those attacks?  I highly doubt Versailles would take too kindly to a candidate(especially a Democrat) taking one of their own to task, despite the validity of the grievance.  Should we expect candidates(or politicians of the party) to defend each other from those kinds of things?  After all, politicians don't want to be blacklisted from MTP or any of the other shows.  Just curious is all.  


Yes. (0.00 / 0)
I think it's high time we start expecting our people to look out for each other and take care of the people who are on their team instead of standing on the sidelines with the other team and snickering.

It's not helpful.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
So you advocate .. (0.00 / 0)
basically starting a war with the TradMed? .. because that is what would happen .. because as I am sure you know .. once you criticize Tweety(or most other members of Versailles) the rest come to his(or the other offenders) defense

[ Parent ]
Thank you for a very interesting (4.00 / 4)
post.

What I find interesting about the division during the primaries is that it was almost entirely personal.  The policy differences between Clinton and Obama were actually very minor.

Because the primaries were so personal for so many, it will be much harder to repair the damage than if the primary had been about issues. For example, there was only one race since 1972 that was as close as the Clinton/Obama race: 1976 GOP fight between Ford and Reagan.  The 1976 GOP race was actually closer than Clinton/Obama race, and was very much an ideological fight. Ironically because it was ideological the GOP came together far faster than was predicted during the primaries.

I also find interesting the notion of generational change.  About 20 years ago the historian Arthur Schelssinger wrote a book called the "Cyles of American History" about how politics was defined by generational change.  I saw that generational change first hand the Iowa caucus that I captained.  In one corner of the room were the Clinton supporters, almost all of whom were over the age of 50.  In the other corner of the room were the Obama supporters almost all of whom were under the age of 40.  I must admit I was stunned at the obvious generational gap.  I think you're right in saying that the Obama people understood this generational gap better than the Clinton people did.


Style differences were immense, though (4.00 / 1)
The policies weren't too different, but the styles of politicking and proposed styles of governance the two candidates, and their temperaments, were immensely different.  Hillary promised to be a fighter and touted her experiences being pummeled by the WRWC.  Obama stressed a cooler, more inclusive and pragmatic style.  The way they approached the problems of governance would have been very different.  Personally I think Obama is better suited to attracting people fed up with Bush/Rove/Cheney politics and incompetent governance and with dealing with the post-Bush/Rove, weakened GOP.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
That old trope (0.00 / 0)
about the most optimistic candidate always winning  presidential races certainly held up and  looks very likely continue to prove true through the general.
    That's very much an American trope, though, that I see as cutting across generational lines.

[ Parent ]
History of blacks and women (4.00 / 1)
Sara,

Thanks for writing about the sort of ping-pong that happened between the black and women's rights movements.  I had suspected something like this just looking at the timing of when blacks won the vote versus when women did, and had wondered how much it played into some of the current levels of hostility in these communities.

My question concerns the generations after the boomers and your take on their views of authority.  Are the post boomers more authoritarian?  This would surprise me since the boomers have been a very Republican generation, and conservative politics tracks cloesly with authoritarianism (as per Bob Altemeyer's work).



Interesting question (0.00 / 0)
I think, to the extent that one can generalize about these things, that many Gen Xers are distrustful of authority because (with justification) they feel that no one is really looking out for them, but not rebellious in the way that Boomers were.  More just go their own way. But Millenials are more accepting of authority in the sense of working within the system, as Sara describes, but have their own values and priorities.  I would expect the post-9/11 generation to be more like us Silents, because of the fear and turmoil of the last few years and the crises to come like climate change and its consequences.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
A fundemental reason (0.00 / 0)
for the difference, I think, is the lesson from the 2000 campaign re Nader.

[ Parent ]
Which lesson re Nader (4.00 / 1)
That one should not attempt to run to the left of the Democratic Party, or that one will be pilloried for having such gall?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
The lesson that (0.00 / 0)
"every man for himself" leaves everyone empty-handed.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
If you think Ralph Nader runs for himself (0.00 / 0)
I think you need to do some research on Mr. Nader's career as a public watch-dog and consumer advocate.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
so glad you brought up Altemeyer's work (0.00 / 0)
on authoritarianism.  

[ Parent ]
More questions about post-Boomers and authority (0.00 / 0)
This was the part that I didn't understand in Sara's very ambitious post.

Are you saying that younger folks are more inclined to value and discipline themselves for collective effort and organization? Or do you really mean more inclined to accept authority without question?

I find the latter inconceivable, suicidal even, for folks who came up under the regime of the Bushies. Authority as we've known it would just let the planet fry.

Can it happen here?


[ Parent ]
Think back a ways (0.00 / 0)
To the way Boomers rebelled against their parents and the whole GI Generation and especially against '50s conformity, in the '60s and '70s (until the economy got dicey).

Young people today just don't seem to have the same antigonistic, hostile attitude towwards their parents.  They seem to have a closer relationship to parents.  Certainly there is a youth culture that is different from what older people like, but it doesn' have that "tear down the system" quality.  To me it seems more constructive.  It may be part of why people were so slow to grasp what Bush was doing.  And, of course, this time the pain of war isn't spread so widely.  I also think economic insecurity and post-college debt plays a big, big part.  That's why there isn't so much "dropping out" now.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
well which young people are you talking about? (4.00 / 2)
because among middle class / upper middle class 2nd generation young South Asian Americans, generational revolt is a hallmark of what's happenend and the generations themselves need to be differently defined (in a graded way, i would argue).  And that's just one subgroup - perhaps people from other ones could comment on how theirs approach things differently (or argue that perhaps they're not even comprehensible in generational terms).

This is not directed at you personally, Mimi, because I know from your prior comments that you're a thoughtful person, but I often find that these dialogues about generational divides miss what was the strength of Sara's post - that there are many different kinds of people within the aggregates and the aggregates can be constructed differently depending on what your interest is in constructing them.  I don't think attributing entire personality types to a generation without carefully looking at whether they apply is particularly useful for progressive politics, even if it might cast some light on a broad trend or two in primary elections.


[ Parent ]
So True! (0.00 / 0)
Living in the LA area, with large immigrant populations from all over the world, makes this whole white bread generational discourse sound particularly silly to my ears.

There is something to it, in the way that Mark described, but it's just a whole lot messier than the cookie-cutter approach allows.  The times when everyone is touched by the same big event in similar ways are few and far between.  WWII brought people together in a shared enterprise, pretty different from the Civil Rights movement bringing people into conflict.

And then if you look at WWII more carefully, it was quite different for women who got a taste of workplace freedom and responsibility, vs. men immersed in the bloodbath of war, or for gays and lesbians, who discovered themselves to be part of a much larger network than they ever imagined, or for blacks who fought facism on two fronts... the list goes on and on.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Mixed signals, maybe very Californian (0.00 / 0)
Hmmm. The lack of a "tear down the system" quality in the lives of my younger friends seems to spring not from acceptance of authority, but more from a resignation to living within a time when "there is no alternative."

Meanwhile the gay ones are luxuriating in the freedom to live their individuality.

And lots of younger folks seem pretty mad at their parents for not having stayed together, for having pursued individual freedom at the expense of family life.

And I agree with "dr anon" -- among my many friends whose parents were immigrants, there's a sense of a huge break from their parents' values and understandings. Not perhaps a break characterized by animosity on the young side, but a sense that what their parents have tried to pass on to them is just irrelevant to their lives. Guess that's a common immigrant experience.

Can it happen here?


[ Parent ]
from this penis-American (4.00 / 1)
great essay. Thanks.  

Humorous (0.00 / 0)
but Richard-American would suffice.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Generational warfare (4.00 / 2)
There certainly is an age gap in the Obama-Clinton divide, but cartoon portrayal of boomers and millennials won't shed much light.

You say "most of America under 50 is sick to tears of the way Boomers -- both left and right -- do politics."  In fact, almost all Americans are sick of how politician do politics.  Most people in most countries are sick of how politicians do politics. The thing about the boomers is that they won't accept vague rhetoric about hope and change, because they've heard it too many times before.

And, in fact, there is very little difference in how Obama's supporters, or Obama himself, do politics.  Remember "as far as I know?"  The ridiculous flap over the Kennedy comments?  Nasty, eat-shit Nixonland attitudes were all over the web, and the airwaves.  Obama was able to appear above the fray because so many in the media were doing his dirty work for him.

You say "what lies ahead is going to be a sharp left turn from the four decades past."  Have you not seen a newspaper in the last month?  Obama is the same-old same-old triangulation.

Reagan captured the youth vote exactly the same way Obama has - by vague promises of hope and new beginnings.  The youth vote is primed this year because of the war.  There certainly was/is an age gap, but it is caused by marketing and posturing, not a sign of an era passed.


Is it Obama's fault? .. (0.00 / 0)
And, in fact, there is very little difference in how Obama's supporters, or Obama himself, do politics.  Remember "as far as I know?"  The ridiculous flap over the Kennedy comments?  Nasty, eat-shit Nixonland attitudes were all over the web, and the airwaves.  Obama was able to appear above the fray because so many in the media were doing his dirty work for him.

That Tweety and the gang fell in love with him temporarily?  Most of us know that Tweety and the gang hate the Clintons, so I don't think it was a love of Obama as much as a love of whomever was opposing the Clintons.  Most of us also knew that the love would end once the primaries ended.  They have to prop up McCain after all.


[ Parent ]
Talk about not shedding light (4.00 / 1)
all you do in your rebuttal is reiterate the same old anti-obama slams.. he can just give a speech,  the press was anti-clinton, he is triangulating, empty promises.. yada, yada, yada.. I have read your arguments in a thousand posts (and cartoons).. I have read only one version of this essay.. and it was here, today, by Sara Robinson...

[ Parent ]
Obama slams? (4.00 / 4)
I fail to see my post as slamming Obama.

He has made vague promises of change, like many other politicians have.  It has worked for him, as it has for others.  If you don't like the word "vague" then by all means rebut it.

His supporters, online and in the media, haven't been practicing a new kind of politics, but have been as nasty and divisive as anyone else.

He certainly doesn't represent a shift to the left, and never has.  

These aren't slams.  They are hardly even controversial opinions.  

I do think it's controversial, unsupportable, and even bigoted, to blame the boomer generation for the confrontational nature of modern politics, or other evils of the system.  IMO, the rise in rancor has been primarily the results of new media outlets elevating marginal voices, especially on the right.  

I do think it's controversial, and unsupportable, to claim that the millennial generation has a certain, different and identifiable set of characteristics when many of them aren't even of voting age, and those that are of voting age are confronting their first political challenge - that is, one of the most disastrous and unpopular presidencies in history - and coming to the conclusions that at probably 75% of the population shares.  No one could have definitively pegged the boomers in 1968, and no one has definitively pegged them even today.  


[ Parent ]
Agreed in principle (0.00 / 0)
I'm a millenial, but my attitudes fit much more with the attitudes given to boomers in this essay (I really empathised with Clinton's "This is the fun part" comment, for example.)

I'm not about to deny the reality of generational differences - we are made by our environment and those of a similar age will have grown up in the same political environment and many will respond in the same way. But I do think that a little more caution is needed. Millenials are just entering the system. They look like they'll be very Democratic, but the picture is hazy as yet and we don't know what kinds of Democrats they'll be.

That said, the boomer generation has to be blamed (if that is the right word) for the rancor in politics, or at least the narrative about them does. Partly this is because boomers are fairly dominant in politics now - the Silents will almost all be gone in a decade and plenty of them aren't very influential. But partly this is because the dominant narrative of the boomers is of a fight for rights, and then the inevitable backlash. It forms an environment in which it seems natural to engage in no-holds barred combat, because fundamental values are at stake.

That's not the fault of the average boomer, who has no more control over the system than the average Gen Xer. But the narrative that formed around the years in which they came of age certainly played a part (even if that narrative was largely formed by conservatives and big media).

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
I agree with most of what you say, but... (4.00 / 1)
In your 3rd paragraph you seem to be saying that because Rush Limbaugh is a divisive jerk who lies and attacks people for several hours every day on national radio and TV and Phil Donahugh's TV show was cancelled because it wasn't pro-war enough that boomers are to blame. Just because boomers happened to be standing around in large numbers while the corporate media developed hate-radio is not a very strong basis for blaming boomers. Yes, boomers should have done more, but that is true of every generation. It is useful to see how the environment shapes each generation and to see how that generation tackled the political situation it faced, but blaming one generation or another for what they did or didn't do is counterproductive -- it just divides us from one another and doesn't help us change the system -- a system that is controlled by a power elite that consists of a very small group of people (mostly rich, white, conservative Protestant men).

[ Parent ]
Let me clarify (4.00 / 1)
Certain boomers are to blame. Dittoheads, for example and much of the political leadership. But plenty aren't to blame. Still, I think the dominant narrative about the boomers feeds in to vicious partisanship. Whether that narrative is at all accurate or whether those who caused it to be formulated are actually boomers is another matter entirely.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
The Rancor Came From Nixon, Buckley, Reagan, etc. (4.00 / 1)
All significantly older than the Boomers.

It was bought into by a lot of Boomers, of course.  But they were neither the source, nor the cause.

And, in fact, on the Dem side, the problem was exactly the opposite of what this narrative proclaims--over and over and over again, the Dems refused to fight when they should have, or at best only went through a minimum of the motions.

So what you have is the Reps acting as bullies, throwing their weight around time after time, and the Dem base seething about it, and then, finally, after 9 times of capitulation, the Dems stand up and fight just once, and then Broder & Co. throw up their hands and say, "They're always squabbling!  Why can't they just get along?"

Which means, why can't the Dems roll over 100% of the time, instead of just 90%?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agree strongly. (0.00 / 0)
If anything, my generation, Gen X, is very cynical about the possibility of altering institutions in any meaningful way, after the baby-boomer's failure to do so.
An exasperation with "More of the boomer same" inevitably has to do with rules and structures that were enacted under boomer guidance and not simply the style of doing so.

Mostly, however, I agree very much with kanzeon that pat generational analysis is of limited use. After all, in the end, we're all DFH here as far as the normativizing structures of American politics are concerned.

     


[ Parent ]
Reagan didn't capture the youth vote (4.00 / 3)
So much as capture their loyalty after he was elected, and then in 1984.  The youth vote wasn't a factor in the 1980 election as far as I recall.  It was all about high inflation (18% interest rates) and the Iranian hostage crisis.  Young people had flocked to the environmental movement in the '70s and Reagan threw that all away seemingly without much protest.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
You are correct (4.00 / 1)
It looks like the youth vote split 44/43 in 1980

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

Apparently that went up to a 20 point lead in 1984:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped...

To the extent that I can find much analysis about this, it appears that the Republicans conducted huge youth voter outreach in the 1980s, but I can't find many specifics, other than Reagan funded the college Republicans heavily.


[ Parent ]
College Young Republicans (0.00 / 0)
You are right--they were a big force--Karl Rove, Jack Abramoff, Grover Norquist were then IIRC. And "Morning in America" was the 1984 election.  

Generally an age cohort takes on the ideological color of the person who was in the WH when they come of age, unless he is really bad, in which case they go for the opposite party.  The most Dem cohorts came of age during Truman, Nixon term 2 and Bush II term 2.  See here, one of my favorite graphs.  The most GOP came of age during Ike term 2, and Reagan term 2/GWH Bush.  They don't so much cause as follow change, except those few years where they join the party opposite to the man in office.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Boomers are a fickle generation (0.00 / 0)
Bill is typical, Hillary is not.

[ Parent ]
Or maybe (0.00 / 0)
Bill is typical male, Hillary is typical female?

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Re: Generational warfare (4.00 / 1)
You say "most of America under 50 is sick to tears of the way Boomers -- both left and right -- do politics."  In fact, almost all Americans are sick of how politician do politics.  Most people in most countries are sick of how politicians do politics. The thing about the boomers is that they won't accept vague rhetoric about hope and change, because they've heard it too many times before.

Bingo! That was not simply a characteristic of the vaguely defined group known as the Boomers, but of any rights activist in the past in the USA and in the present in countries around the world.

You say "what lies ahead is going to be a sharp left turn from the four decades past."  Have you not seen a newspaper in the last month?  Obama is the same-old same-old triangulation.

Worse, the quoted prediction ("sharp left turn") is not just wildly optimistic but inaccurate. If the author is correct in her earlier contention that Americans are tired of confrontational and non-compromising politics (that she attributes to Boomers) then that negates her prediction of a sharp left turn (a truth echoed, as you point out above, in the direction of Obama's recent turn). Remember that old quote: Power yields nothing without a demand. So, what is the compromising, non-confrontational way in which you pry your rights away from white penis-Americans?

Those who complain of a backlash against the "excesses" of the 60s and 70s (as Obama himself has, unsurprisingly) forget that a backlash is the response of the entrenched norms and structures to a successful struggle. If all you wish for is to avoid a backlash, you are correct in advancing a non-confrontational and compromising program. The corollary is you will be the one doing the yielding, as Obama is currently doing.

In truth, it does not even appear true that most left-leaning Americans under 50 dislike aggressive confrontational activism or prefer Democratic Party or Clinton/Obama like compromise. I do not have hard numbers (but nor does the author offer us any) but I would wager that on significant issues (universal healthcare, standing up to Bush, Social Security, corporate regulation, taxing of the rich, etc) this segment of the population is well to the left of Clinton or Obama and quite eager to find a leader (or leaders) who will represent them in confronting these issues.


[ Parent ]
Challenging the voter... (0.00 / 0)
A related bit from a review in the NYT of Obama's patriotism speech:

In 1960, John F. Kennedy spoke of a New Frontier that appealed to the American people's "pride, not to their pocketbook" and that held "the promise of more sacrifice instead of more security." These were courageous words that at a time of national drift reminded a generation of Americans that they had genuine responsibilities to their country and flag. They are the kind of words that many Americans crave to hear now; and Mr. Obama should not be afraid to challenge the American people.

I post this not to highlight JFK (for whom I have no admiration).


[ Parent ]
Thank you for the excellent post! (4.00 / 3)
Much of what you say I've heard from my mother (born 1944), about the struggles of women, and even that white women often get their rights after black men.

And pointing out the sexism and racism in the campaign, though most of it came from the RWCM than from the campaigns themselves.

If you can, I'd like to see you elaborate on this point more "

"It's not an overstatement to say that how we treat them in this election, and the next one, will very likely determine the fate of  American progressivism for the next 40 years. This generation is the most naturally progressive one we've seen in our lifetimes -- but that won't last if we handle the hand-off badly."

As it seems like you're saying something really important here, but I'm not sure what you mean in concrete terms.


I think she means (4.00 / 2)
That if Boomers insist in having it all be about the '60s and Vietnam and claim to know it all, if they belittle people who respond to Obama's message of hope and tell them they are dupes and 'bots and all the rest, and especially if McCain wins, or if Obama wins and those in power frustrate any real change, then the Millenials may turn on them or become equally as cynical and defeatist.


John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
I am hoping she means mutual respect based in deepening knowledge. (4.00 / 2)
We all agree that part of, if not the primary, reason for our crisis now in our democracy, is the direct result not in the lies and prevarications of our government, but the reduction in the actual information in public discourse, including what we talk about once we realize we have been  dupes of a large system.

We don't even know how to talk about the problems we have because the language of our conversation has been reduced and debased. Deep investigation of the issues we face, from sexism and wage discrimination, to climate change and militarism and American exceptionalism. From interventions in foreign democracies to infiltrations and surveillance in domestic politics, from social contracts to monopolies and monopsonies, from vote suppression to "blow back," for all these, inspection and study arenecessary, if we are to understand where exactly we stand, let alone determine the route out and back to democracy and a humane sane governance.

Discussions like the last two guest posts are, despite being difficult to many, are vitally important to us as citizens. It would be wonderful if our only problem was that the the single occupant of the White House had a flaw, and merely exchanging him for any other person would be all that we need to solve of governmental difficulties. Thats not where we are, thats not our problem, thats not the solution.

What we need is a recognition that the rights we have and fight for, have attached to them, integral to them, a set of responsibilities, that are their exact complement. We must be citizens, the highest power in the land, the ones to whom all must answer who pretend to lead, and the ones entrusted with the responsibility of governing. Iraqi children are dead and threatened because of you and you and you. Women's wages are 68% of men's wages on average because you have not done anything about it. Our lakes are heavy metal sewers based on the results of your decisions.

If we are to move forward on these issues, and we must, it will be because you have become at the very least well informed about each of these issues, or very very respectful of the people who are impacted most by the specific problems and who are involved in their amelioration.

In terms of media reform for example, merely saying 'yeah they suck, theres nothing we can do" is not something a citizen should be proud of saying.

We are citizens, we have a responsibility to: 1)understand we are badly informed, 2)understand we have a responsibility to become informed in both depth of knowledge and breadth of knowledge and 3) treat each other with respect as we move forward, recognizing our limits and accomplishments.

Just because you have a right to your opinion does not mean your opinion is right. Finding out you are wrong about something, moves you closer to being right, and helps you actually solve the problems we're working on.

People as they age for example, becoming apparently less attractive and prejudicially less useful to the average person, feel, sometimes for the first time in their lives, what unspoken discrimination feels like. Life examples like that can help us understand not just "what side of the barricade we are on", but who might also be there with us.

Knowing who is here with us is the fountain of wisdom, and the basis for the respect we need for and from each other.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
This diary is an excellent psychological portrait (0.00 / 0)
If they are turned on I am wondering how they will handle it. Dean did a great job and his supporters still love him.

[ Parent ]
Fascinating piece, Sara. (0.00 / 0)

Thank you so much.  Section II covers some of the most important and least well discussed issues of this primary. It ought to be required reading.

  



John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

For the record . . . (4.00 / 1)
HRC

1) Played a leading role in advancing Welfare Reform relegating thousands of women to poverty

2) Served on the board of  Wal-Mart  which according to a currently pending class action law suit "discriminates against women in promotions, jobs assignments, training, and pay."

3) Cheered on the most neanderthal, foolish and costly exercise in aggressive machismo in recent U.S. history.

If this is what we can expect from a "great feminist heroine" maybe we'd be better off trying our luck with misogyny.


Water under the bridge (0.00 / 0)
Let's not stir up a hornet's nest here.  

But think about it this way:  with HRC this year we got the best of both worlds.  As in we got to have a woman do very well in a presidential primary, bringing us closer to a woman president someday, while at the same time (fortunately IMO) ensuring the end of the Clinton/Bush duopoly.


[ Parent ]
Please (0.00 / 0)
Can we keep these diaries constructive.  There is an interesting conversation to be had if we avoid yet another round of flame wars.

[ Parent ]
Very true (4.00 / 2)
She is a "house feminist" and many of them are.

[ Parent ]
Hillary voted repeatedly for war and never apologized. (0.00 / 0)
I am a man who has supported feminism for 35 years.  

I cannot call a war monger a feminist or speak of her in heroic terms.  Therefore,  I cannot endorse the premise of this diary.  


Flame on (0.00 / 0)
Again, starting up the flame wars doesn't help.


[ Parent ]
Flamers missed the point of the diary (4.00 / 2)
I'd say.  Or maybe prove the point.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
But How Can You Ignore The Submergence Of Issues??? (4.00 / 1)
An icon that stands for itself more than anything else is not much of an icon.  And this is a real problem with Obama as well.

This problem did not appear out of nowhere.  It has always haunted movement efforts, the seductions of power and co-optation of leaders are ever-present dangers.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Maybe this isn't what you're getting at (4.00 / 1)
(or maybe it is) but the way I explained the power of "an icon that stands for itself" to a real-life friend who was just appalled that I supported, and identified with, Hillary, is this:

It's like a hate crime. Watching what the media, and some of the more rabid Obama supporters did and said about Hillary was a radicalizing experience because it makes you realize that was intended for you. It's a message and the people it is intended for can read it loud and clear.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Well, That's The One Way That I Can Support Clinton (0.00 / 0)
but, then we went through that with her husband, too, when they tried to impeach him for being a Democrat.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
still (0.00 / 0)
As a biomale, I'm not in a position to question your argument and even if I were I wouldn't be interested in doing so, because it's your reaction--nuff said.  That said, I think a critique by women feminists of the ways in which her campaign and her career in general has selectively relied on promoting the patriarchy would be useful to see--the same critique that should be applied to any candidate (just as a race critique and a political critique and many others should be).  I'm sure these are out there in places, but I haven't come across them (by dint of my reading habits probably).

[ Parent ]
Sequencing Progress (4.00 / 3)
I wonder about this:

"White men, as holders of privilege, seem to be more easily persuaded to share it with other Penis-Americans than they do with women.... In the years that follow, these guys invariably find their own wives and daughters coming to them, arguing that if black men can vote/go to college/own property/whatever, then how can they continue to withhold those same privileges from the women they love so dearly?"

Historically, before either women or blacks had the vote, and before women or blacks had much of a voice in debate, this may have been true.  However, once everyone has the vote, and everyone has some opportunity to be heard by the larger culture, there is every reason for the sequencing to reverse, because women are slightly more than 1/2 the population.  Women then need to rely far less on the good will of the dominant population than minorities.


But women have less economic powewr than men (4.00 / 1)
Women are more likely to work at lower wage jobs and be single parents.  Working women below the upper middle class often vote below their numbers.  It is often said, that women control more wealth, but this is misleading because it is largely widows who outlived their husbands and the money may be controlled by money managers and/or the next generation.  Men overwhelmingly have the economic power.

So even though everyone can theoretically vote, there are still obstacles to participation and even more so influence that disadvantage women and poorer people, and this applies to both black and white and, also latinos, although dynamics are different.

And women are still less assertive, resulting in fewer women office holders, because they are less frequently asked to run and less apt to push themselves forward.  (See latest issue of The American Prospect.)  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Yes and no (4.00 / 1)
Don't forget that huge numbers of women are still way way back in consciousness. Beauvoir writes so wonderfully about this.

[ Parent ]
it's an interesting idea (4.00 / 1)
But why hasn't it really happened that way?  The ~45% of women who vote Republican don't seem to have much effect on the party's policies.  

It could work the way you suggest, but I think the greater degree of partisan unity among blacks has made them arguably a more effective electoral force.  



[ Parent ]
to generalize a little bit (4.00 / 1)
i think it's because there's a fundamental divide between the way that community-based politics work (i.e. you can create an entire neighborhood or territory of primarily Black people) and individual-based politics work (i.e. queer people and women grow up in and are basically constantly in the presence of patriarchy).  Another way to put this is that your whole family is frequently going to be part of your race/ethnicity/nationality, but it's probably not going to be the same gender or sexuality.

[ Parent ]
Interesting diary (4.00 / 1)
You have some great observations here, though I don't agree with it all.

I.

While all of this is probably true, I don't think it factors in Hillary's unique role.  As the former First Lady, she also represented a political family.  Many nations even more sexist than ours have had female leaders coming from political families.  Had Clinton won, would she be the first to break that glass ceiling or would she be our Benazir Bhutto or Corazon Aquino?  Probably, it would have been some combination of the two.

II.

It was sad to see how the primary devolved into identity politics.  Had someone won quickly it would have blown over without much fuss, but the length of the campaign caused everyone to dig into their trenches.  I think some actually justified their sexism/racism due to the other side "doing it first".

This primary reminded me a bit O.J. trial.  In the first few months after the car chase I was amazed how a black man could be accused of killing a white women without anyone caring about race; all the talk was about how O.J. the sport hero was being given the benefit of the doubt.  I was very proud of my country and thought we had grown so much.  Obviously, that didn't last long.

III.

While I find this interesting and informative, I don't think it had much to do with the results.  I still think Hillary lost primarily due to her war vote and refusal to apologize.

IV.

Given that most Boomers are actually Republicans, I'm not about the authority stuff.  But perhaps, as individualism runs across party lines and the liberal/conservative divide.  Some may say it is even more conservative than liberal.  Though authoritarian is definitely more conservative than liberal.  Hmm... something to chew on.

I definitely believe those younger than the Boomers believe the take-no-prisoners attitude of most Boomers is part of the problem, not the solution.  In this respect, the younger generation is in direct conflict to the blogosphere many, incorrectly, believe it created.


Most Boomers are not Republicans (4.00 / 1)
See the chart here.  People who came of age (turned 20)in the period between 1965 and 1982 (born between 1945-1962) are more Democratic.  It is the people who came of age during the Reagan-Bush I years esp 1983-1992 that are more Republican and those are very late Boomers and Gen X, hard as that may be to believe.  I think now that things may have shifted even more to the Dems, though.  The Truman cohort (born 1926-1931) used to be the most Democratic until Bush II term 2.  They are now in their '80s.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
I swore I saw different numbers, recently (0.00 / 0)
But I have no link; I could be wrong.

[ Parent ]
Lots of polling uses different age categories (0.00 / 0)
They will use categories that overlap the generations as Strauss and Howe define them.  They use categories like 18-24 or 30-45 and "over 65" that mix generations.  I think of the generations as roughly 8-26 (1982-2000) for Millenial, 27-44 (1963-1981) for Gen X, 45-63 (1945-1963) for Boomers and 64-83 (1925-1944) for Silent and 84+ (<1925) for the GI Generation.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Nixon- Ford (0.00 / 0)
Actually, I believe the second most Dem. group, according to that chart, is the Nixon-Ford of-agers. Although it's very close.
  It's interesting that the stats are, on the Dem. side, more shaped by Republican failures than Dem. successes.

[ Parent ]
The Take-No-Prisoners Attitude (4.00 / 1)
I do think it is part of the problem, although I would phrase it differently.  I sense an attitude of "if you are not with me, then you are against me" and that anything less than total victory is appeasement emanating just as strongly from certain segments of the lefty blogosphere as from the Bush White House.  I find it equally unattractive in both.  

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
This Is A Good Essay, But, I'm Afraid FISA Already Haunts It (4.00 / 2)
It's particularly good in pointing out how blacks have repeatedly advanced before women.  Though it does leave out some complexities--such as how crucial white women were to winning black men's rights at a time when only a handful of black men were free to figth openly on their own behalf, or how white women benefitted more from affirmative action than black men did.

However, FISA represents the return of the repressed--you know, issues.

A good part of generaltional oomph! for Obama came from an intense desire from change.  It's not that post-boomers were the only ones who wanted it--just look at the "wrong track" numbers--but that they wanted it in a different way.  And that is understandable, for some of the reasons that you've laid out.

However, it's simply mistaken to blame "the Boomers", however well this message may test.   Nixon was no Boomer, and you're far closer to the truth to speak of Nixonland, which was an institutional resphaping of America around the Boomers, not by them.  Indeed, the whole notion of generational agency is supect at best.  There are rare times when the bulk of a generation really does seem to head in one direction for a signigicant chunk of time.  But these are the exceptions, rather than the rule, and more often than not they reflect a shared circumstance, more than anything else.  For a while, the shared circumstance of heading off to college gave part of the Boomer generation the appearance of a unity that was largely illusory, as Nixon's win of the youth vote in '72 clearly showed, for anyone bothering to pay attention.

One thing that one fragment of the Boomer generation learned was to distrust master narratives.  Some, perhaps went overboard, but the general thrust was sound: there are far more twists and turns in the road than you're going to see on the map, and far more people not even on the road at all.  In other words, sweeping generalizations are always wrong... including this one.

Moral: the real story here is just beginning to be told.  The FISA betrayal is a real turning point.  It's the point where all the equivocations that were swept away in the past come flooding back, and a significant chunk of people who formerly only saw through a glass darkly now see face to face.  This will be repeated, on different scales, in different ways, many times over.  And it is how the post-Boomers, especially Obama supporters, handle these various betrayals that will have a good deal to say about what sort of generation they become--subject to all the caveats above.

Meanwhile, it should be noted that Cynthia McKinney, running for the Green Party Presidential nomination, has names another woman of color as her running mate, Rosa Clemente:

Rosa Alicia Clemente is a community organizer, journalist and hip-hop activist. Born and raised in the South Bronx, she is a graduate of the University of Albany and Cornell University. A much sought after commentator, political activist, community organize and independent reporter, Rosa has been delivering workshops, presentations and commentary for over ten years.

So much for racial- and gender-balance on the ticket.  It's back to geography.  One from Georgia, one from New York.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


FISA as the return of repressed issues (0.00 / 0)
I think that some people saw it as the last, best hope to impeach Bush, and the crumbling of the dream of Dubya being frog-marched out of the Oval Office has led some people to become more openly bitter.  It's a reaction with an emotional (as opposed to rational) component.  The truth is that, on a certain level, I see some of the loudest critics as the "tantrum-throwers" that are held in disdain by post-Boomers, according to Sara Robinson.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Sorry, But This Is All Projection On Your Part (4.00 / 2)
This isn't remotely about impeachment.

The connection is that it's about the rule of law.  And Obama--along with many Dems--just signed on to being against the rule of law.

The fact that so many post-Boomers may not be able to distinguish between petty bickering and the age-old struggle for fundamental rights is depressing, but unfortunately not surprising.  That's why I pointed to it as the first example of a process sure to be repeated, and the question of how people learned from the repetitions as key to what they might become.

The real story here that Obama's narrative distracts from is that there is a powerful bipartisan majority of the people who are opposed to the bipartisan destruction of the rule of law that he's just taken part in.

Thus, us tantrum throwers aren't just standing up for the Constitution and the rule of law, but also for a bipartisan majority of the American people.

No wonder we're such a pain in the ass.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Generational Generalizations (4.00 / 2)
One thing that one fragment of the Boomer generation learned was to distrust master narratives.  Some, perhaps went overboard, but the general thrust was sound: there are far more twists and turns in the road than you're going to see on the map, and far more people not even on the road at all.  In other words, sweeping generalizations are always wrong... including this one.

In other words, Boomers don't believe generational generalizations hold.

There's a punchline in there somewhere...


[ Parent ]
Some Do, Some Don't (0.00 / 0)
The media loves simple narratives. Complexity bewilders them.   So they just eat the generational stuff up by the bucketful.

But the whole growth of post-modernism thingie is all about getting beyond master narratives.  This is where those damn tenured radicals come in, teaching about all those folks who got left out of the stories that were told in the past.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Post-modernism, generations (0.00 / 0)
But the whole growth of post-modernism thingie is all about getting beyond master narratives.

Just as long as you don't throw out the power of theory.  To me, "master narrative" is just a phrase describing a bad and overly general and simple theory.  Modernists reject this as well, as part of the process.  

(Note, can get out of my league really fast, here, as I hardly follow he debate at all, so this is just my observation.)

---

But really, we talk about generations when we really should talk about collective experiences that shape us.  WWII was the single most unifying event in U.S. history, putting virtually all Americans on the same page with the same experience.  Coming off of the Depression only intensified the unity.  

Certainly, this unity had greater impact on the more adaptable young than the older folks, thus the talk of generations, but it actually influenced everyone.

While Vietnam wasn't the single most divisive event in U.S. history (Civil War, anyone?) it was one of the most divisive.  This also shaped everyone; again, with the younger effected the most.


[ Parent ]
Civil Rights movement too (0.00 / 0)
That turned pretty ugly, after starting out so hopeful.  And the two were in some ways connected.  To many traditionalists it all seemed very chaotic and overwhelming, to others a chance for real, positive change.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Yep, both ways in fact (0.00 / 0)
Originally I had some stuff on the civil rights movement in this comment, but it quickly got to be too complex and largely besides what I wanted to say.  But basically:

1) The movement was partially a reaction to the WWII unity, with race relationships clearly showing a counter example to the unity felt elsewhere.

2) The post WWII unity helped the civil rights movement.  Despite the obvious conflict involved, white America was more prepared to accept civil rights for others at that time than most other times.  That base willingness of acceptance is largely unnoticed because...

3) The civil rights movement obviously had a huge divisive element to it, and that is what the Boomers and others mostly noticed.  And, as you said, it seemed very chaotic and overwhelming -- but successful.  Those experiences shape people.


[ Parent ]
Master Narratives (0.00 / 0)
There is more continuity between modernism and post-modernism than most realize in some ways, but not in others.

Regardless, "master narrative" does not just mean "a bad and overly general and simple theory."  Narratives are often pre-theoretic, meta-theoritical or para-theoretical as well.

Your point about shared experiences is a good one, and is quite in line with what I wrote earlier about the shaping contexts.

Part of the context of the post-Nixon era has been the erosion of the welfare state--as well as the regulatory state.  And this is something that is intentionally a cause of confusion.  Because Americans like the welfare state, as I've shown on several occassions.  So the conservatives have pretty much given up trying to destroy it frontally, and they've gone into subverting and eroding it instead.

The strategy is that the more they destroy it, the more dysfunctional it becomes.  And then they say, "well, why do you want this, it doesn't work well at all."

Unfortunately, those who have grown up in this era have virtually no experience of a welfare state program being implemented with good faith intent, and/or without added poison pills.  And thus we have glib appeals to "market-based solutions" as if the market itself weren't  sometimes the problem.  But if all you've ever known is a shrinking, deconstructing welfare state, then what else can you even conceive of?

The right was very aware of this when they decided to kill health care reform in Clinton's first term.  The one thing they feared above all was the threat of a good example.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
If you're going to talk about modern to postmodern shifts, (0.00 / 0)
then you have to get in to the role of shifting media in shaping generational outlook. I'm firmly in the school that believes that television inculcates a societal passivity and allows not only for master narratives, but overdetermined master narratives- I saw it, therefore it must be so. And then you really get into the whole Cartesian mine-eyes-don't-lie thing that postmodernism thinkers sought to disrupt.

     The (d)evolution of the media, from  a relatively socially responsible Walter Cronkite to a money-and-power- above-all-else Chris Matthews has done as much to define generational zeitgeists as any lone political figure. I'm stubbornly  unconvinced that the party of the presidency when you're 20 years old would do more to influence your politics than the messages you absorb on a daily basis.

 After all, Mimi Katz's NYT chart suggests that more Dems. come out of a Repub. presidential failure than a Dem. presidential success. The rupture of the narrative, during the spectacular failures of a Nixon or a Bush, is more powerful than any moment in the narrative's cohesion.
Which, I think, is a testament to the potency and resonance of the narrative itself, well above and beyond the figures in it.

         


[ Parent ]
Master Narratives (0.00 / 0)
I'm firmly in the school that believes that television inculcates a societal passivity and allows not only for master narratives, but overdetermined master narratives- I saw it, therefore it must be so.

Two thoughts:

1) It certainly is true that is some cases, perception is reality.  For example, if people are offended by something, they are offended; it matters not if they should be offended or not.  There are whole categories of stuff where this applies.

(True story: I realized this fact while debating friends in college on whether "Papa Don't Preach" encouraged girls to get pregnant.  I said no.  I finally realized I was wrong when it occurred to me the women all thought it did while the men did not.  It didn't matter if that opinion was reasonable or if the intent was there, only that women and girls felt that way; that was the message received by the population that mattered.)

2) The impact of TV on master narratives is declining greatly due to cable and the internet.  We are now entering the realm of master micro narratives, where groups develop their own narratives apart from society as a whole.  This blog is a perfect example of that.  The narratives can tie back in, but the interaction is much more complex.  (This gets into group theory, complexity, networks and so on.)


[ Parent ]
Well you know there are (4.00 / 1)
two kinds of people in the world:

Those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don't.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
But Boomers were the footsoldiers (0.00 / 0)
And as the culture wars blossomed in the 1980's, they were leaders of the reaction.  Lee Attwater and Bill Bennett and Newt Gingrich and George Bush were as much Boomers as Mark Rudd and H. Rap Brown and Bill Clinton.

And read Chapter 13 of "Generations."  It was written in 1990.  They forecast ideological warfare between segments of the Boomers and among other things imagine a terrorist attack as managed by different generations:  Silent would have tried to reassure, consulted allies, initiated multilateral negotiations and have full public discussion.  

If it happened with 60-year old Boomers in charge, Boomers

"would neither hide nor ponder the rumor; instead they would exaggerate the threat (who said there was a bomb in only one city?) and tie it to a larger sense of global crisis.  Unifying the nation as a community, these leaders would define the enemy broadly and demand its total defeat--regardless of the human and economic sacrifices required.

Rather prescient.  I agree that the Silent are by and large too much compromisers in the face of someone like Bush, who should not have been unimaginable.  And Cheney is a Silent.  So we have much to atone for too.

But I don't think the theory of generations is bunk.

   

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Except That (0.00 / 0)
(1) As you note, Cheney is a Silent.  And the entire architecture of neo-conservativism is even older than that.  He was a student of the originators.

(2) If Gore had been President--that is, if we had still been a nation of laws--then it's likely we would have had a very different reaction.

We certainly did with the first WTC attack, which happened a mere 3 years after their book was writen, and sharply contradicted their thesis.

So, yes, "bunk" does describe this particular argument.

But, you see, I'm a great believer in complexity and over-determination.  So I'm not saying there's nothing to it.  I'm saying it's overblown, and it distracts from a lot more basic, well-established expanatioins of things.

For example, this sort of lumping:

And as the culture wars blossomed in the 1980's, they were leaders of the reaction.  Lee Attwater and Bill Bennett and Newt Gingrich and George Bush were as much Boomers as Mark Rudd and H. Rap Brown and Bill Clinton.

simply ignores the whole institutional history angle.  The New Left--Rudd and Brown--was very much self-created out of the wreckage of the Old Left under the onslaught of McCarthyism (which Nixon was a precursor to, btw).  In constrast, Attwater, Bennett and Gingrich were plugging into an insitution-rich establishment that was being bankrolled by extreme ideologues.  Besides, of course, the fact that Bennett and Gingrich aren't even Boomers (born '43, both of 'em).

As I said, I'm not saying there's nothing to the generational approach.  Just a whole lot less than meets the eye.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes and no (0.00 / 0)
The issue isn't rule of law, but the grandiosity in the response, and setting it in a cataclysmic ideological clash of cultures. This is characteristic of Boomers on bioth the Left and Right.  Their point was that Boomers would be dangerous in leading the country in a crisis before they had mellowed into their seventies, when they could play the part of wise men like George Marshall and Henry Stimson of the Missionary Generation, even FDR who was born in 1882, guiding the country in WWII and after.  On his own issue, Gore has certainly tried to magnify the danger of climate change--I may agree with him, but he hasn't downplayed it's significance or reasssured people and tried to compromise the issue.  

Strauss and Howe do classify Gingrich and Bennett as Boomers, but they place the cut-off at 1943, whereas I put it at 1944 and many people put it at 1945 or even '46.

Certainly Gincrich and Bennett aren't like what I think of as quintessential Silent like Martin Luther King, James Dean, Woody Allen, Dick Cavett, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart, and even Dick Cheney and McCain. And even, in many ways, John Kerry, born at the end of 1943.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
The More You Look, The Sillier It Gets (0.00 / 0)
The issue isn't rule of law, but the grandiosity in the response, and setting it in a cataclysmic ideological clash of cultures.

Except, of course, that that's exactly what it is.  So was WWII.  But Boomers weren't around for that.  Ooops!

And James Dean?

This is where it gets really silly.  How do you tell the beatniks, and other 50s counter-culture figures from the hippies?  Particularly someone like Dylan, dubbed at one time (to his extreme annoyance, of course) "the voice of his generation", when he was, um, not part of the generation (even with mis-classifying '43 as its start), having been born in 1941?

More silliness:

On his own issue, Gore has certainly tried to magnify the danger of climate change--I may agree with him, but he hasn't downplayed it's significance or reasssured people and tried to compromise the issue.
 

He actually has tried to compromise the issue.  He's got Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelosi doing tv commercials together.

That's the problem with pop social science.  Right in the middle of the science, it goes "pop!"

You can always re-explain it, of course.  That's the beauty part.  It's a great parlour game ala Trivia Pursuits.  But as serious explanation?  Not so much.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
FISA (0.00 / 0)
To add to the complexity, we don't really know why the Democrats are going along with telco immunity.  It could be the appeasement of which you speak, but I tend to think it is butt covering.  In other words, Democrats are just as much to blame for the domestic spying as Republicans and even more likely to get in trouble for it, as Democrats actually almost care.

It's possible Obama was appeasing his real base, Democrats in the House and Senate.  (Pelosi, anyone?)


[ Parent ]
It's Generally True That (0.00 / 0)
if 10 Republicans do something, and one Democrat says, "Okay by me," then the Beltway Dems will cover the Reps butts just to protect the one sorry-ass Dem.

But there are also times when this doesn't happen, too.

So, since it's not really an iron law, it doesn't answer the basic question, "why?" it just proposes an interverning variable, which is quite plausible to me, but doesn't really explain anything: a sordid cover story to go with the patriotic BS one.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Potential British Parallel (4.00 / 2)
Your thoughts about sequencing got me thinking about the British parallel.

We never had much of a black population before the arrival of immigrants from the Caribbean in the 1950s - blacks prior to then tended to be absorbed into society without forming their own long-lasting communities. The nearest thing we had was Catholics, who were barred from voting until 1829. However, it's not a very good parallel, because the Catholic upper classes were never particularly oppressed and the Catholic working classes in Ireland, Scotland and northern England didn't get enfranchised until very much later (in fact, Catholic emancipation was largely a vehicle to disenfranchise poor Protestants in Ireland).

The parallel I can see revolves around the struggle for women's suffrage. By the 1890s, the conditions set in 1867 were beginning to allow more people than ever to vote, including some tenants and even a few farm labourers. This sparked enthusiasm for women's suffrage amongst female members of the upper classes, who were offended that those who worked for them could vote whilst they themselves could not.

Indeed, the history of the WSPU is essentially a history of a middle-class organisation denying gender as a reason to deny the vote, but affirming that class very much was, unlike their more radical colleagues in the WSF. And even then, when men over 21 got the vote in 1918, only women over 30 were enfranchised.

I'm also interested in the reasons why women might have been perceived as being able to leapfrog black men in getting to the presidency. As kanzeon said above, one would think that women are a large enough group that they'd be able to make their presence felt much more easily than any minority. Especially since most black politicians are in majority-minority districts and Obama is one of a very few to have succeeded statewide or to have become a national figure (since the likes of Sharpton and Jackson were unfairly considered to be merely 'black' candidates.) Would this be an example of positive discrimination in action, or is it more related to the charisma of Obama and activist distrust of Clinton? I have no idea, but would welcome somebody else's theories.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


Don't discount Hillary's status as First Lady (4.00 / 1)
And the inheritor of a political machine. It probably didn't serve her well in the end, but I think it gave her a boost that no other woman of her generation had.

Obama would not have been able to have the appeal he has without the charisma and bi-racial background IMHO.  And there was Colin Powell to, in a sense, pave the way. Both Powell's parents and Obama's father were voluntary, first generation immigrants, and that in my experience makes a big difference in the level of achievement a person can imagine for him/herself and the person's relationship to the dominant culture.  

Plus the etertainment industry has featured several black Presidents to get people used to the idea.  I remember when they started putting black people in TV commercials, and it was in part to just get people used to the idea of multi-racial socializing at a time when people were scared witless their child might want to marry "one of them."  That it seems to be so little a factor with Obama's mother now is some evidence that progress has been made in the last 30-40 years.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Sara (4.00 / 1)
This is quite possibly the best analysis of the primary I have seen.

Thank you so much for this.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


Ditto (4.00 / 1)
Excellent stuff, Sara.

Thank you very much!

Karl in Drexel Hill, PA


[ Parent ]
USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox