No Kaine do! (0.00 / 0)

Please, Barack.

Just don't.

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by: Bush Bites @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:40:52 PM UTC

This is most helpful information (0.00 / 0)

He's a gay baiter?  He really sounds like a bad idea for Obama.  Assuming this is all true, folks ought to talk to whomever they know and generally raise a ruckus about Kaine, since this may be floated as a trial balloon.  This is pretty disturbing stuff.  Some of this is not that big a deal since the Pres sets the tone, but it sounds like he isn't that great.  I'd like someone more knowledgeable, more progressive economically, and more plausible as Pres.

I hope he's got someone else in mind.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:42:27 PM UTC

What? Donnie McClurkin Wasn't Available? (0.00 / 0)

He's a gay baiter?  He really sounds like a bad idea for Obama.

Interesting how he just keeps going there.

"Connection, I just can't make no connection."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:30:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd prefer Sebilius myself (4.00 / 1)

The gay baiting makes him sound like a redneck and would definitely hurt obama's message.


The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com

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by: TerraFF @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:50:51 PM UTC

I Don't Understand the "Gay Baiting" Charge (4.00 / 1)

So this stems from an ad Kaine put out saying "Jerry Kilgore isn't being straight"?  And something about internet rumors about Kilgore's effeminate voice?  Kaine was connected somehow?

Anyone know anything more about that?

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by: davisb @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:55:53 PM UTC

Reading closer it does appear that he didn't actually do anything bad (0.00 / 0)

As far as gay baiting goes.

Without that Kaine is just another John Edwards  IE a  conservative democrat in a conservative state.  

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com

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by: TerraFF @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:01:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Edwards (4.00 / 1)

Except that Kaine hasn't spent the past four years trying to generally reform his image.  I'd credit Edwards while more credibility than that now.  Given his more recent history, I don't see him supporting repealing the estate tax, for example.  Furthermore, few Senators who voted for AUF have done more work to rehabilitate themselves.

Edwards would probably be a better pick, despite his record when a U.S. Senator.  Well, except for the tabloid thing.

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by: tilthouse @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:53:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You Obviously Have NO Idea Who John Edwards (4.00 / 2)

Thanks for letting us all know your level of ignorance.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:33:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

very helpful post (0.00 / 0)

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

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by: Hopeful in NJ @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:56:08 PM UTC

Followed some of your links... looks like Kaine was against gay marriage and civil unions (4.00 / 1)

and signed a constitutional amendment ballot-thing that banned both.

If this Kaine thing is a trial balloon from the campaign, this might be one way to pop it.  Obama does not want an extended discussion of gay rights in September, and he doesn't need trouble from that corner of the party generally.  I don't know if the gay wing has enough power to stomp on Kaine -- heck, I don't even know what his current position on gay rights is -- but in concert with the progressive wing of the party, it might be something.

Abortion has come up before too... with the whole Clinton angle still ongoing, it might be possible to rope the Emily's List wing of the party into an anti-Kaine program as well.

But you've probably thought of all this already, this is what you do.

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by: texas dem @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 22:59:09 PM UTC

referendum (0.00 / 0)

I am not sure that Governors sign referendum

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by: AliceDem @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:09:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I would like to know if he DID sign it (0.00 / 0)

Because we have a bunch of links to statements in January 2006 that he would sign it, but I don't see any to actual signing.  For example, this post claims he refused to sign it in April 2006.

I don't know either way.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

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by: Hopeful in NJ @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:14:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I did some research and it's hard to tell (4.00 / 3)

It looks like he was, in rough chronological order:

1) against gay marriage and civil unions
2) said he'd "sign" an amendment to the Virginia constitution banning gay marriage
3) decided that the particular amendment that passed the Virginia Assembly when he was governor was too broad (permanently banned civil unions as well as marriage; also had some possible effects on straight couples in common law marriage -type situations)
4) campaigned against the amendment in 06
5) -- never figured out what the "signing" situation was, although I think it's like a veto that can be (and I think was) overridden --
6) dont know his current position, but he's presumably still against both gay marriage and civil unions

Obviously more research would help clear this up, but real life calls.  Wanted to share this much though.

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by: texas dem @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 00:13:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

thanks (0.00 / 0)

I have to say I don't like what I'm learning today about him.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

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by: Hopeful in NJ @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 00:28:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

my two cents (0.00 / 0)

after reading Open Left and G Spot, I can see that Kaine isn't exactly a progressive. He's not a Joe Lieberman or Evan Bayh type, since I don't think he takes pleasure in scolding the party, but he's definitely too far to the right on a lot of issues.

I like Tim Kaine personally, and would still work for Obama 100% if Kaine were his VP pick, but at this point I'm starting to hope that Sebelius is the front-runner.

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by: existenz @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:07:26 PM UTC

Virginia netroots (4.00 / 1)

it's a big place.

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by: AliceDem @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:10:27 PM UTC

Kaine's position on trade is also as right-wing as it gets (0.00 / 0)

Kaine has been quoted extensively as calling the prevailing Dem position on trade as a "loser" (see link below). It appears that unfortunately he appears to be a free trade fundamentalist on par with McCain.  This is a serious policy and political problem - a great way to take away the best hook Obama still has with rank and file labor members.  I'd take anyone but Kaine at this point.

http://www.bloombergw.org/apps...

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by: edeli @ Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 23:21:55 PM UTC

If Obama did pick Kaine .. (4.00 / 1)

which I hope is just stuff to make Broder giddy and nothing more .. we know that Kaine would face a stiff challenge in 2016 ... because a lot of his positions wouldn't fly with primary voters

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:26:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yikes! (0.00 / 0)

Timely info.

John McCain doesn't care about Vets.

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by: MC @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:40:04 AM UTC

at this point I'd prefer CLINTON to KAINE (0.00 / 0)

Kaine is anti-choice. Anti-Gay. Pro-Trade. Corporatist. Oy Vey!

Why is he picking a white guy anyway?? JANET NAPOLITANO or KATHLEEN SEBELIUS! That's change we can believe in!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Mad Professah Lectures

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by: MadProfessah @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:47:32 AM UTC

All I can do is hope... (0.00 / 0)

That this is just Obama shoring up his Blue Dog creds, and he will in the end chose Dodd or Sebelius. But who knows.

Here is hoping for change I can believe in.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  

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by: bluethunder @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 02:23:03 AM UTC

This is an oddly one-sided depiction (0.00 / 0)

Look, none of us know a ton about Kaine. Most of us aren't from Virginia.

I'm not going to call him the next Lieberman based on one liberal progressive Virginia blog.

There's multiple ways to look at it. I don't think he's the strongest guy you could pick because his governance history is not very strong, but others have claimed that this is more a case of circumstances. He's in Virginia which only allows one term Governors and he's following a popular governor whose success turned the state's Republican party into a more extremist, screw the public and stop everything at all costs posture.

Frankly, I'd still prefer someone like Biden, who though a horse's ass, will say things that need to be said and fight like hell against the Republicans, but right now I don't see any reason to fear Tim Kaine or declare him some super conservative.

Further more, I think this post is intentionally omitting any of the progressive, positive aspects of Kaine. Yes he's vaguely pro-life, but he's also anti death penalty, a strong supporter of transportation infrastructure, and he was opposed to the Iraq war very early on. Not to mention his early career choice to work as a civil rights lawyer. Does that outweigh everything negative about him? That's for each person to weigh, but it's not fair to just blanket label him as some unprogressive party hack. I'd prefer a choice with greater accomplishments to his name, but that's just an opinion.

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by: Siguy @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 07:54:21 AM UTC

Kaine is anti-death penalty PERSONALLY... (4.00 / 1)

...but as governor he has allowed several executions (including this one just recently) to proceed.  He's also against state funding of embryonic stem cell research based on his Roman Catholic "pro-life" beliefs, apparently.

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by: lowkell @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 10:12:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Two things.... (0.00 / 0)

First, how do we make it crystal clear to Obama that Kaine, if he is as bad a choice as it appears, is unacceptable to Progressive Democrats, short of simply not voting for the ticket?  If we don't have a coordinated, clear and "loud" response, a slim chance of being heard goes to none in no time flat.

Second, this situation cries out for a need for "blog focal points" like this one to be more effective at discerning and presenting candidate trends earlier rather than much, much later.  

An example - I can tell you right now in my home state which three people are most likely to run for Governor once our present one steps down. I can give you a rough policy and "public interpretation" trend of both our Senators and our Governor and of our party's head of the statehouse.  I can even give you a general policy/perception trend of the dozen state legislative folks in my general area.  And with that comes opinions.  And while I know these things, I am hardly "connected" compared to people I know who make my insight look almost insignificant by comparison.

If Kaine was trending in such a dubious fashion, why weren't we hearing about it before?  LK has people on it that know, or know people who know, Virginia politics.  And you have enough foresight to have a rough idea of who the first and second tier candidates are in general for future Federal office.  (And where you don't, you have places like LK from which to draw information and opinions.)

I think you need to consider a constantly updated "big board" of folks to keep an eye on, and periodically have a pro and anti position person come onto OpenLeft to mutually make their case for where that person is trending.  It would help a lot in getting us out of a "rush-rush, hurry, hurry", or worse yet, from falling into an "inevitable despondency" mode and able to better prepare and react more effectively to things like the Kaine situation.

My two bits....

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by: palamedes @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 14:39:35 PM UTC