Trash Talk Ford Thread

by: Matt Stoller

Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:31


I'm watching Meet the Press.  Are you?

Oh God, now Ford is kissing his ass, congratulating him on his activism.  And he's trying to talk unity. What an asshole.

...Markos has said 'it's not about him' but about millions of passionate activists.

...Ford is now talking policy, a clean energy future and health care.  Ford does not want a fight, and is talking about 'merging factions'.

...Markos and Ford both agreed that fighting the war on terror.  Oh good, finally they are slashing at each other about John Breaux, tax cuts, and the war in Iraq.

...David Gregory is saying that the base is very liberal, and he's going to let Ford respond.

...Ford is now saying that the DLC is anti-big money and an anti-establishment group.  He's going down the litany of Clinton's accomplishments.  And Ford says 'we're not going to win if you and I are arguing with each other'.

...David Gregory is now asking about Iraq, and that the Democrats aren't advocating for a full withdrawal.  He also asks about gay marriage.
...Whether it's three months, six months, or a year, getting out of Iraq in terms of polling is semantics.

...Markos is slashing at Clinton, saying that Clinton never won more than fifty percent of the vote.  And he keeps coming back to the fact that Ford would be a Senator if his political strategy.

...Markos criticizes Ford for going on Fox News and attacking Harry Reid.  Ford then goes after Markos for his site being antisemitic and a forum for Cindy Sheehan.

...Markos talks about Clinton being able to speak to activists even though he criticizes her, while Ford keeps emphasizing a 'merging of factions'.

Ok, it's done. 

Matt Stoller :: Trash Talk Ford Thread

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already annoyed (0.00 / 0)
The 'centrist' versus the 'liberal'.

Ford's just a corporate whore.


Cakewalk? (0.00 / 0)
Ford wrote ". . .borrow a favorite GOP phrase, a cakewalk."? Doesn't he know what/where cakewalk came from? From wikipedia: Cakewalk is a traditional African American form of music and dance which originated among slaves in the US South. Interesting choice of words for him...

[ Parent ]
There is nothing centrist... (0.00 / 0)
about being as self-promoting as Ford is.

That's what he is all about.

Beyond that, in his Senate campaign, he ran to the right of Corker on everything, or at least that's how it seemed.


[ Parent ]
Notice that there was no mention (4.00 / 1)
of DLCers trashing Markos, Daily Kos, the netroots, and liberals in general over the last 4 years.

Notice also how Ford tried to take credit for the elections of people like Tester, who was opposed by the DLC in the Democratic Party!!!

Join us at the Missouri community blog Show Me Progress!


"Can't have it both ways" (4.00 / 1)
Harold Ford kept taunting Markos with the statement "You can't have it both ways."

After hearing Mr. Ford scrambling to take DLC credit for Bill Clinton while denying John Breaux's shortcomings like Peter denied Jesus .. and avoiding DLC losses for many years after Clinton...

..well, Mr. Ford, "You can't have it both ways."


It was lame (4.00 / 1)
Harold Ford's 'three hurdles' (national security, values, and taxes..fiscal..I forget #3) was just blather. It's like saying we need to talk about geometry, cooking, and cars. WHAT about geometry, cooking, and cars should we be talking about -- those are broad subjects -- just like Ford's 'three hurdles'. Without detail they are just poll tested buzzwords.

Only Republicans think Democrats need to meet some hurdle on national security, values and finance always and forever. DLC antichrist Howard Dean is to the right of the GOP on fiscal matters, the GOP is the party of corruption which last I checked wasn't a family value, and Iran Contra, the Beirut Marine barracks bombing and 9/11 all happened on the GOP's watch. Reagan lost more people in Grenada in a meaningless photo-op than Clinton lost securing the heart of Eastern Europe in a deployment that both solidified NATO and the EU and ultimately diffused a lot of residual Cold War tensions. No comment on the current GOP Commander-In-Chief.

What Kos started to get into was the hurdles that Ford was espousing are all issues that the Right WANTS Demcrats to talk about instead of jobs, wages, and healthcare. Nobody says the GOP needs to cross a jobs, wages, and healthcare threshold because voters who make decisions on those issues are called Democrats. Voters who make decisions on bombing people into the Stone Age, having a religious test for participation in government and want to cut taxes so low that your local interstate is a toll road run by a private company are called Republicans. These facts escapes the DLC.

John McCain


Actually I like his three hurdles (0.00 / 0)
They made our point.

One hurdle was to keep us safe. Gee, another Republican talking point as the first hurdle. But keeping us safe mean more than just invading a country and throwing out the Constitution. Funny how they always stop at keep us safe to sound tough.

Another hurdle was making sure our values matched the mainstream values. Anyone care to show him the polls lately that basically show the net-roots is in sink with mainstream America, even in "liberal" areas like civil unions and getting out of Iraq?

I can't remember the third, but it had something to do with fiscal conservatism or taxes. Again, this is a matter of priorities, and I think Markos hit upon this regarding support for infrastructure. Basically Ford takes Bush's line of not raising taxes because of course taxes are evil, when we know that taxes pay for things like our military and our bridges.

If teaching is so easy, then by all means get your degree, pass your certification test(s), get your license, and see if you can last longer than the five years in the classroom 50% of those who enter the profession never make it to.


[ Parent ]
"President Harold Ford" (0.00 / 0)
A favorite of mine... former DLC-sponsored blogger and current Lieberman Comm. Dir. Marshall Wittmann, October 2006:

The Moose reveals the identity of the person who may become the first African-American President of the United States.

Ok, maybe the Moose is getting ahead of himself. After all, Harold Ford has not yet won his Senate seat. And Senator Obama may reach the Oval Office before him.

But, Ford will likely win in November, and then he is on his way. That is because he has run the most flawless Senate race in the country....

Democrats, and indeed the nation need Harold Ford in the Senate because a revival of Southern moderates will provide a balance in our politics. Democrats are lurching to the left on national security and more hawks will keep the doves in check. Undoubtedly, Joe and Harold will be strong allies - the Scoop caucus.



Ford is Full of It... (0.00 / 0)
A total sham.  Boy, he has taken a play from the Bill Clinton, shmoooze, book, that for sure.

Industrial authoritarians (4.00 / 1)
I myself used the term "centrist" below. Just shows the power of frames -- they're hard to scrap even when you want to. Call them "industrial authoritarians."

It's clear from Ford's message that he was prepped to seem conciliatory and progressive, trying to position the DLC as an outsider, insurgent force. Preposterous, I know.

In the end they are about stripping progressive values from Democratic campaigns, and running on technocratic, wonkish messages that don't offend.

Markos drove the point home about values and passion. Notice that Ford really could not answer that. He went right back to specific policies.


Gregory gets it right (4.00 / 3)
At one point Gregory said to Ford that maybe liberal is the new center ... that was a nice moment.


"Kos's site is antisemitic" (0.00 / 0)
Riiight.

Kos's site has banned almost every Palestinian and Palestinian advocate who ever posted there, but no matter how far they bend over to appease the forces of AIPAC, that meme will still stick.


What was the substance of Ford's criticism (if any)? (4.00 / 1)
For the life of me, I can't figure out where that would have come from (except for opposing Lieberman, and anybody who actually reads the site would know that has nothing to do with Joe's faith).

[ Parent ]
Same as Bill-O's (0.00 / 0)
The intellectually dishonest arguement that since there are anti-semitic comments and diaries on Kos, then by association, the entire site is anti-semitic.

It's openly dishonest, and Kos smacked him on it with a line about whether he liked Democracy or not, referencing the number of people/comments on his site and how he doesn't control the message written by hundreds of thousands of his readers. Then he compared this to the "dozens" of people in the DLC and how this allowed Ford to control the DLC's message.

If you know nothing of the blogs, which Ford is betting on, he scores points. If you are slightly aware and tuned into politics or blogs at all you know Ford was basically lying.

If teaching is so easy, then by all means get your degree, pass your certification test(s), get your license, and see if you can last longer than the five years in the classroom 50% of those who enter the profession never make it to.


[ Parent ]
Except that you can find (0.00 / 0)
accusations that the opposition to Lieberman was indeed antisemitism.  These are the same people who accuse Jimmy Carter of antisemitism, who accuse moveon.org.

Smear campaigns like this don't need to have substance to be spread.  All they need is someone who will profit by spreading them.

Even if Markos caves in totally to them and bans all discussion of Israel on the site - which is exactly what the Israeli sympathizers on the site want - it won't stop the smear campaign.



[ Parent ]
Off Topic - Adverts - Ann Coulter (0.00 / 0)
Sorry to be off topic, but I'd prefer not to have Ann Coulter's face between the story & comments.

I understand that you need to run adverts on this site, but how about some standards?

Do the folks at humanevents.com see this forum as a good target for their hate product?

Peace


Ann Coulter (0.00 / 0)
If Ann Coulter wants to donate money to the progressive movement by buying ads that will gain her nothing, I'm all for it.

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
"Liberal" Values (0.00 / 0)
Seriously, what is wrong with America? I forgot if it was the host or Ford who made some reference to "liberal values" always raising taxes to provide government services.

When did it become a "liberal" value (read bad)  to help those less fortunate than oneself? When did this become bad? Last I checked, not only was this a liberal value, but a progressive value, a Christian value and most importantly an American value.

I swear Mother Teresa and Jesus would get attack ads run against them today by the Republican party if they ran for office.

If teaching is so easy, then by all means get your degree, pass your certification test(s), get your license, and see if you can last longer than the five years in the classroom 50% of those who enter the profession never make it to.


We Need Both Progressives and The DLC To Win In 2008 (0.00 / 0)
Whatever the differences may be between the DLC and Progressives, we need each other to win in 2008.

Finding common ground and a message that appeals to Independents, especially in the swing states, will be required.  So will mitigating our differences throughout the primary and general.

Once we're safely ensconsed withing the White House and have built upon our Congressional majorities, we can go back to addressing our differences.

Until then, we need to keep our eyes on the prize.  Further, we need to NOT provide the GOP with any fodder that they can use to swifboat us!


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