On John Edwards

by: Matt Stoller

Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 15:31


Apparently, a powerful and wealthy man not running for any office had an affair.  This has never happened before.

Update (Chris): Mostly, I am just surprised that the National Enquirer was right about something. I was wrong, and some other commenters were right.  

Matt Stoller :: On John Edwards

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On John Edwards | 100 comments
McCain? (4.00 / 3)
License to bring up McCain's cheating on his first wife with his current wife?  Anyone know the backstory well enough to know if that would fly?

Tit for tat is unproductive for us (0.00 / 0)
The message should be that this type of shit doesn't matter.  Because it doesn't.
[ Parent ]
It does matter (4.00 / 2)
It may not be enough to make up for the policy differences between two politicians, but it matters.  It only would not matter if either a) it is not immoral to have an affair or b) moral character is an unnecessary quality in a politician.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
[ Parent ]
Not to mention the "subject to blackmail" angle. (4.00 / 2)

[ Parent ]
and wife with terminal cancer (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
And Franklin D. Roosevelt fits into this dichotomy how? (0.00 / 0)
He had affairs. Far from an ideal spouse, but would you prefer that he not have been president?

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq
[ Parent ]
Or Kennedy, or a lot of politicians (0.00 / 0)
HOw about we just attack McCain because he is a horrible candidate that would be horrible as president?
[ Parent ]
It is different now (4.00 / 1)
It's like YouTube and lying politicians.  The rules are different. The press is less respectful.  There are tabloids like the Enquirer, and of course Drudge.

Maybe if you are Arnold Schwarzenegger and have a magazine publisher buy the rights to a woman's story and then sit on it, you can get away with it. But any modern politician has to be as aware of Drudge and sludge for hire publications as they are aware of amateur filmmakers and YouTube.  That's just how it is, and it's arrogant and stupid not to recognize that.    

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Clinton Rulz (0.00 / 0)
Kennedy got to have affairs while in office.  Clinton didn't.  I don't know when precisely the rules changed (wasn't there some shady stuff going on in the Bush 41 White House?  although no one thinks that included the president himself), but they did.  Maybe the Gingrich GOP + 24-hr cable news is what changed it (the fact that Gingrich himself was having an affair at the time -- and Bob Livingston, and others -- seems significant somehow).  

But anyway, it changed, and after 1998 everyone knew what the new rules of the game were.

Although then there's McCain's recent affairs; don't know what to make of that either.

Anyway, Edwards certainly knew he was running an utterly irresponsible risk.  Had he been the nominee and been torpedoed, the four-year delay in climate change action would have been responsible for the needless deaths of millions of human beings.

Although I have increasingly little faith that people in his tier of politics actually care about that kind of stuff.

[ Parent ]
It obviously does matter ... (4.00 / 1)
Just take a look at the cable news channels if you don't think so.

McCain cheated on his first wife, Carol, who had been disfigured in a car wreck in 1969  while he was a POW, to woo Cindy Hensley, the beer heiress and former beauty queen. After his return from Vietnam and rehabilitation, he commanded a training squadron in Florida and started acquiring a reputation as a womanizer. After McCain became the Navy's congressional liaison in 1977 he continued to see other women and met Cindy in April 1979. Carol agreed to a divorce in February 1980. McCain married Hensley in May 1980, one month after his divorce became final.

[ Parent ]
So he's a horrible person in his personal life. I don't care (4.00 / 1)
I care that he's a horrible candidate who will destroy the country.  And we shouldn't let the vapidity of cable news dictate how we should conduct our campaigns.  Hitting McCain on this just reinforces the stupid 'all politicians are the same' meme, which completely undermines Obama's entire brand.

And there is so much to hit McCain on that isn't vapid at all.

[ Parent ]
The Real McCain Cane be found Phoeniz Times (0.00 / 0)
In the Daily Kos there a dairy about McCain life written by Amy Silverman of the Phoenix Times. It should be a must read McCain is the most immoral man ever to run for the any political office in modern times.  The man will say and do anything to get what he wants. Don't take my word for it read the Dairy or the Vintage McCain in the Phoenix Times

http://phoenixnewtimes.com/mccain

[ Parent ]
It matters to me (4.00 / 11)
I flew to Iowa for the Son of a Bitch.

The timing here matters, but what he did was as reckless as Gary Hart (someone else I spent hours, days, months trying to get elected).

Bottom line: if you are running for President for something other than your own ego you have a responsibility that you betray when you do things like Edwards and Hart did.  They hurt the cause they pretended to support.

I have no idea why people make excuses for them.  

[ Parent ]
I'm so sorry, fladem. (4.00 / 1)
There's the personal betrayal, and that's between him and his family.  It's the public betrayal that's an issue.

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq
[ Parent ]
It is a personal betrayal too (4.00 / 5)
People sometimes put their lives on hold and go work for politicians.  Sometimes they give money they can't afford to give because they believe in someone.  While people have to remain clear-eyed about politicians, it is still a betrayal of his ardent followers and increases the amount of cycnicsm that people have about politics.  And that isn't good.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
I looked him straight in the eye (4.00 / 2)
as did many of the activists who turned their lives upside down for him.

It goddam is personal.  And he risked all of our energy for nothing.  

[ Parent ]
You're right. (4.00 / 1)

It is personal for everyone who worked for him.  Again, I'm so sorry for you and everyone who worked for him (and those of us who wanted to vote for him) who assumed he was being straightforward about his odds.

 



John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq
[ Parent ]
Me too (4.00 / 2)
I spent countless hours phonebanking, canvassing and fundraising for a candidate who was foolishly squandering my trust for his own egotism. I almost feel like I owe an apology to the literally many hundreds of people who I spoke to on behalf of him. While ideally, I wish I could say that "it doesn't matter because the message behind his candidacy is still true" the reality is that it does.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...
[ Parent ]
I think about the people (0.00 / 0)
I spoke with at the caucus in Iowa.  I feel like a complete fraud.
[ Parent ]
The issue is not (4.00 / 23)
that he wasn't running for office at the time.  The issues are threefold: 1) Doing so while his wife had cancer - or was in remission as he claims - is an extremely poor reflection on his character as a public figure, 2) He repeatedly lied to voters and his supporters when he was running for office, and 3) He chose to run for the highest office in the country with this baggage, that if/when it came out, would destroy any chance of the Democrats winning back the WH.

Don't try and minimize this Matt...

Netroots for Gore

He cosponsored the IWR. (0.00 / 0)
This is no worse than that.
[ Parent ]
Character Matters (0.00 / 0)
A lot of progressives threw their support (and time, and money, and blood, and sweat, and tears) to Edwards.  Even putting aside the tremendous disregard this shows for his family, it's pretty unforgivable to ask people to work their asses off for you if you're willing to throw everything away to get laid.

http://twitter.com/DrewCourt
[ Parent ]
3rd point... (0.00 / 0)
This wouldn't have necessarily happened had he not been running for office... It only happened after his campaign got started.  So, in some ways, he didn't choose to run with this as baggage... he added this baggage as a result of him running.

Of course doesn't excuse it.. just saying that this was a result of running, not in spite of it.  I'm thinking this may be why he suddenly suspended his campaign.

[ Parent ]
Two thoughts (4.00 / 2)
a. No more talk about Edwards for VP
b. As commentor 1 has said - can McCain be hit on this, in a sideblow?
Depends on what the GOP does (0.00 / 0)
If they're smart, they'll shut up.  Glass houses and all that.

BTW, there is a good diary at Kos on the McCain scandals.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
exactly (0.00 / 0)
They know they better not say one word, directly or obliquely lest McCain's "past transgressions" come up.  
[ Parent ]
we are lucky he's not the nominee (4.00 / 6)
I have always liked Edwards and admired his political skills, and still do.  Nevertheless, even with McCain's horrible women issues, this would have been devastating if he were the nominee.  The media would never give him a fair shot on this.

Quite a few people I've met never really 'got' Edwards' appeal.  There was something a little too much, too apple pie, too persuasive, too ___.  

This really would have damaged his authenticity, given that a part of his story was how he really was, underneath it all, a regular guy, not a beltway big politics type. (Of course, millions of regular guys do have affairs, but never mind that.....)


yeah (4.00 / 6)
I was always one of those who never quite 'got' the Edwards appeal. I liked his policies (of 2007-8, not of ca. 2003 - and the shift in his politics was part of the reason for my lack of support for him.) But I just... never quite trusted him.

Guess my spidey sense was working.

[ Parent ]
he lacks political skills (4.00 / 1)
why do you think he won only two states in 2004 during the primaries, and none this time around? He can't organize a campaign, nor did he show any signs of being able to move his legislative agenda as a senator.

Even Hillary Clinton is a more skilled politician. And Barack Obama? A better natural politician than even Bill Clinton, which is saying something. What Clinton struggled to do, Obama does easily and effortlessly.

I'm one of those who found Edwards unimpressive and untrustworthy. The one piece of evidence I can most conclusively point to is his incredible reversal on the AUMF.

He never struck me as having more than a superficial understanding of foreign or domestic policy. For his vaunted economic expertise, he simply read academic papers, and cited them to make his arguments, as a trial lawyer is trained to do.

But his actual experience in government belied his rhetoric.

[ Parent ]
What about AG or some other Cabinet Post? (0.00 / 0)
Clearly VP is out, but what about AG or some other Cabinet post?  Is this really going to end his career?  If Obama were to put him up for some spot, criticism of him on these grounds would be off limits for the McCain camp, wouldn't it?    
No way. He's done for the time being. n/t (4.00 / 3)

[ Parent ]
Let's get this straignt (4.00 / 30)
A man who was running for President, who knew he was in the spotlight, who had seen the last Democratic President nearly destroy his Presidency because he couldn't control his sexual appetites and was saved only because the opposition party had even poorer control over their worst impulses, who had a wife with cancer and small children, had an affair with a younger women whom he has his campaign hire and traveled with, and then he lied about it for months.

This isn't "just personal," guys.  It is poor impulse control, selfish and arrogant beyond belief, and shows very poor judgment.  This isn't the JFK days any more.  You can have a free and open sex life, or you can run for the Presidency.  The Presidency is the ceiling, probably the Vice Presidency too.  This was made very clear to Ted Kennedy in 1980 and to Gary Hart in 1988.  When it is combined with financial crimes, or looks really compulsive, or you are gay, it disqualifies one from the governorship too.  

It is not as bad as Bush's usurpations of power and his war crimes, not by a very long shot.  It isn't even in the same game, let alone the same league.  But it also isn't ok, and it is a betrayal of his supporters, to say nothing of his wife and children.  

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

Thank you!! (4.00 / 1)
As someone who supported him with time and money, I feel betrayed.  And I on several occasions I spoke with the family.  My son played with his son.  

I feel horrified.  

[ Parent ]
All Personal Stuff Aside (4.00 / 8)
Here was a man willing to run for president knowing that he had all of this stuff hanging over his head.

He was willing to gamble our future and our children's futures on the chance of not getting caught. Can you imagine where we would be right now as a party if Edwards had won the nomination?    

[ Parent ]
Well said. (4.00 / 1)
It seems to me hiring someone with questionale credentials and using your campaign supporters' contributions to pay her is also a hell of a way to run a railroad.  I think we lucked out.  
[ Parent ]
McCain disqualified too? (0.00 / 0)
McCain had an affair after coming home from Vietnam and seeing how disfigured she was (after her car accident).  And then he married her (Cindy) while technically still married to his first wife.  So, yeah, I don't like John McCain, but apparently no one is in uproar over this, or over his over 2 decades in the senate.

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
IOKIYAR
[ Parent ]
I posted this on Bob Cesca's blog (0.00 / 0)
and will share it here too.  Pointing to John McCain's failures in the past won't work, because:

McCain was a young cad, who's learned better (or so the story would go) - Edwards was a grown man with a dying wife. No way this could have ever been good for democrats.

The spin on this would have dismissed McCain's past problems with Edwards CURRENT ones - no way Edwards or Democrats defending Edwards wins that debate.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
Well, just the recency effect I think... (0.00 / 0)
I feel like this shouldn't have too much of an impact on Obama... but I think the only reason it won't work for McCain is because of the recency effect.  His was so long ago that people just won't care... nothing to do with him being younger.
[ Parent ]
Um.. he was running for office... (4.00 / 4)
That's sort of what got him into the affair.  So, he's not running any more, though this obviously completely takes him out of the running for VP and possibly any other cabinet position.

This should not be the biggest deal as far as this presidential race goes... But let's not try to pretend this isn't news.

It offends me as a Democrat (4.00 / 2)

This post is to Open Left as the Shark Sandwich album was to Spinal Tap (4.00 / 6)
My two-word review: Shit Sandwich.
Geez Matt - that's unfair (4.00 / 4)
The implications here are pretty tremendous - as any search for "John Edwards" on this site would reveal.  He isn't going to be the vice presidential nominee.  He might not be in an Obama cabinet should Obama win.  

The ONLY good from all of this is that Elizabeth gets even more sainted and maybe has an even more powerful voice for health care.

Yes - this story goes away now... more quickly than not.  And maybe that's why he's coming out with it during the Olympics. Out of sight, out of mind, gives the party a chance to refocus after the Olympics without this distraction.  But lets not pretend that this isn't an important story - with inalterable consequences.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



Really Matt? (4.00 / 9)
Can you even imagine what would have happened if he had won the nomination and this had come out? It would have single handedly destroyed any chance whatsoever that the Democrats had to regain the Whitehouse.

This is political malpractice of the first order.

Really? .. (0.00 / 0)
as I said over at The Great Orange Satan .. I am disappointed in him .. but when does cheating ruin careers? .. it didn't ruin McCain's .. Bill Clinton could probably run for Governor of a number of different states and win
[ Parent ]
Timing Timing Timing (4.00 / 1)
If it came out in the midst of the campaign, it was going to ruin it.  Especially when you're wife has cancer and you're running on being a family man.  Bill Clinton could get away with it because he had done something for Americans AS PRESIDENT.
[ Parent ]
He cheated (0.00 / 0)
on a wife with CANCER.

He is complete scum bag - I have no use for him.

[ Parent ]
Point of order... (0.00 / 0)
Maybe... although according to him he says that he was only cheating when she was in remission.  Not a good excuse, but this "amplification" seems to be what's really getting a lot of people (as if it weren't bad enough).
[ Parent ]
So McCain is a scumbag too? .. (0.00 / 0)
and Gingrich for that matter?  I mean .. it makes them worse than just bad Republicans .. right?
[ Parent ]
Yes. (0.00 / 0)
It's not even cheating, it's carrying on an affair while their wives are sick.  Giving emotional time to somebody else.  It's gross, honestly.  It doesn't mean he couldn't have been a good President, it just means he's a selfish dick, just as McCain and Newt are.  
[ Parent ]
Sure, he's a scumbag (4.00 / 1)
There are two problems with making this stick now though: first, the MSM doesn't care. It's not like Netrootsers were giving him the benefit of the doubt or anything. The MSM won't cover it. The 2nd problem is that it's in the distant past.  
[ Parent ]
also, there will be payoffs involved (0.00 / 0)
Look at this part of the ABC news story:

Since becoming pregnant, Hunter has lived under assumed names in a series of expensive homes in North Carolina and, more recently, in Santa Barbara, Calif.

Edwards denied paying any money to Hunter to keep her from going public but said it was possible some of his friends or supporters may have made payments without telling him.

He said he would ask questions about any possible arrangement.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.
"Not running for any office"? (4.00 / 4)
The intellectual stretch required to make that argument seriously would snap a lesser mind.  
More importantly though, (0.00 / 0)
Putting "not running for any office" in that sentence insults the intelligence of your own readers.  I can't believe you'd try to pass that argument off on us.
[ Parent ]
Fucking Idiot (4.00 / 6)
God Fucking Damn It!

WTF are these peoples' problem? How fucking hard is it to not bang the film student intern whatever when you are one of the pre-eminent political movers in America?

So kiss Edwards goodbye as Attorney General or any other powerful position where one can actually make a difference.

This is a huge fucking deal considering how much energy his supporters put into him, and he just tossed it for a little ass. I thought it was intolerable what Clinton did, what Spitzer did, and now what Edwards did. It is a betrayal of us, and I won't spend one second trying to save or explain away their self indulgent shit ass. Fuck them!

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

Well, actually... (4.00 / 3)
pretty hard, it seems. :( I read an article once about the type of personality that runs for office and the type of personality that cheats... they aren't all that different.  And in a brief moment of sympathy - I can't imagine that Elizabeth was all too welcoming of conjugal rights while going through cancer treatment.  I really feel bad for the whole family, and since Edwards wasn't nominated for Obama's vice president, I can feel a little bit of sympathy for him.  

I think we now know why Edwards took his name off the veep list and then put it back on.  He probably really wanted the chance, but knew he had this ugly skeleton waiting to bite him in the rear.

Still pretty sad, all around.  I think there is very little sadder than potential greatness cut down by inordinate appetite.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
Responsibility (4.00 / 1)
If he knew that it was going to be a political problem, why did he do it in the first place?

An implicit promise in running for the nomination is, "I'm promising you that I'm not gonna disappoint you by sticking my dick somewhere that might get us all in trouble."

John Edwards apparently didn't understand that part of it. I'm so glad he lost.

[ Parent ]
Good points all. (4.00 / 1)

The personality types that tend to run for office are - different. And the on off veep list dance is finally explained.



John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq
[ Parent ]
We in the reality-based community... (4.00 / 6)
... would do well to confront reality head on, and to not attempt to minimize things, even when they are unpleasant.


I can't wait (0.00 / 0)
I can't wait to see how the media spins this into being a problem for Obama.
A shame. (4.00 / 1)
I like both the Edwards.  

I agree that this was incredibly selfish - not only the affair, but risking the white house thinking he could get away with this in the current climate.

But, still I feel bad for him, and his wife, as I did for Spitzer and his wife, Bill and Hillary Clinton, even the family values Republicans who have their own baggage, gay or straight.

I hope they can pull through this, and I wish both sides and the press would stop dragging these infidelities into the public spotlight.  It's none of anyone's business.

Her I feel bad for (0.00 / 0)
him I could care less about.
[ Parent ]
He didn't have a choice (0.00 / 0)
Ann Coulter kept calling him gay.  How else could he prove her wrong?
[ Parent ]
Wow, what an asshole (4.00 / 2)
I'm so glad I didn't vote for him.

BTW, I have lost respect for Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers for their behavior on this issue. If this was a Republican, you would not brush it off by saying "this has never happened before." Not to mention the "wanker" post yesterday which now looks ridiculous.

Phew (0.00 / 0)
I'm just glad he's not the nominee.

How idiotic do you have to be, after watching the Clinton presidency, to know that you need to keep it in your pants if you wanna be the President?

It's not fair, but it's the way it is. John Edwards apparently didn't understand that.

He also doesn't understand that there's another Democrat running for office right now who doesn't need this distraction.

Fuck you, John Edwards.

What a disappointment (4.00 / 2)
Both JE and this post.  
This ties in to the Repukes narrative against Dems (0.00 / 0)
No matter how much power, corruption and lies the Repukes are involved in, in their eyes, its never as bad as the morally bankrupt left whose depavity knows no limits.

This scandal will be tied to Obama, somehow/someway, make no mistake. Especially since a lot of the character assassinations being leveled at Big O were first used against this waste of hair.

Thanks, John. Thanks for every-f'ing-thing.  

Laugh hard. Its a long ways to the bank.  

They may try (4.00 / 1)
but I think the timing of this is interesting.

1. Opening day at the Olympics. MAJOR distraction from this story.

2. Obama on vacation - not in any way on the scene for this and with any luck - not making any comments.

3. Most importantly - before the convention - so as to let the story die a natural death before it overruns the hoped-for convention bounce.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
The Days when the Reporters wouldn't cover affairs is over. (0.00 / 0)
So this matters to the public as gossip and it matters to the party because it sucks political capital.

No one knows what Clinton may have accomplished because Clinton was tied down by his affair with Lewinsky.

That Edwards would stand up and ask for the party's nomination KNOWING he had this out there and that he has a possible paternity suite coming his way is outrageous.  It's damagin to the party. And even the best part of his campaign, the "two America's" is being co-opted.

John Edwards: A family for every America!

How's that for shining a light on poverty issues?

Really? (4.00 / 1)
First of all, I'd bet if you had the ability to know the sex life of every viable candidate that ever ran for president, you couldn't fill two hands worth of fingers with ones that weren't cheating on their wives. Its what rich, powerful people do. Not saying its right, but its true. I'm not saying it is wrong either. Why? Because I'm not John Edwards' wife or Elizabeth Edwards'  husband, that's why.

And why would it be a campaign issue if he had been the nominee? Because people like most of you feel the need to make an issue out of it. If no one gave a shit what consenting adults do in their spare time then it wouldn't matter if John Edwards was doing the entire Tar Heels cheerleading squad, so long as he could campaign and govern effectively.

Oh, and while most of you are judging John Edwards, keep in mind that you don't what the fuck is going on in his marriage.  His wife is dying, you know. Its not unheard of for a terminally ill spouse to look the other way on this kind of thing. Does Elizabeth? I don't fucking know and neither do you. Unless you happen to have inside info (such as Liz on speed dial) then you have no place to judge. And by the way, why don't you think of the worst thing you ever did to a loved one and then decide if you can really criticize anyone in this situation.

And finally, unless you've had your oldest son die suddenly, your spouse diagnosed with cancer, beat it, then have her diagnosed again with no possibility of survival, and had the entire world watch you fail at your greatest aspiration TWICE in four years, then you should probably shut the fuck up.

Rock the Boat

You're missing the point (0.00 / 0)
I can be completely compassionate to all of the things you mentioned: the cancer, the inside of their marriage, the son.  All of it.  But fuck you if you try to fuck with my life during it.  And that's what he did.  I'm not criticizing the cheating (though I think it's wrong, judge not less...), I'm judging the selfishness.  Even if you reject the system of media, you know it's there.  You know people care, and you know it would sink your chances.  

If Edwards had secured the nomination, John McCain would be President.  It's that easy.  Every minute people spent working for him, every time he tried to get votes, he was fucking with their lives, and mine, and yours.

[ Parent ]
You completely missed the point (0.00 / 0)
its because you are all freaking out about it that it is an issue. Remember the McCain adultery allegations? McCain never legitimized it and the right never said shit about and it died.

Rock the Boat
[ Parent ]
Look (4.00 / 1)
The rules of the game suck ok? But you're wrong, this was going to be a story.  The media might have it in more for Democrats on this, fine, but they're the rules of the game for now.  Offsides is a shitty rule in soccer, I might work to change it with the rules committee, but I'm not going to go offsides in a game, and then complain to the ref that it's a stupid rule, and if he didn't legitimize it, we wouldn't have a problem.

Well, the game is rigged against Democrats, and John Edwards should know it.  He talked about the game being rigged all the time.  And maybe, just maybe, John McCain didn't actually have that affair, though he obviously had disgusting past ones.  The point is, you're wrong, it was going to be an issue no matter what.  So it was unbelievably selfish to do what he did knowing the rules of the game.  And it is offensive to me as somebody who cares about the issues he purported to care about.

[ Parent ]
McCain never confirmed the affair either. (0.00 / 0)
Most people here, and on the left generally, were not saying much about the Enquirer allegations, until Edwards confirmed them.  When the candidate confirms the allegations, freakout follows.  If McCain had confirmed the NYT allegations, freakout on the right would have followed.

The only difference here is that the Enquirer had more and better evidence than the New York Times did.  (God, that was a fun sentence to write.)  And so Edwards had to confirm the rumor, while McCain was able to deny.  The behavior of supporters before or after the fact had very very little to do with the way either case developed.

So I say you're wrong that "it's only an issue because you all are freaking out."

[ Parent ]
I'd have to disagree (0.00 / 0)
unless someone had a Paris Hilton-style video Edwards could have just denied this publicly to his grave and no one would have cared.

Rock the Boat
[ Parent ]
Well, respectfully, if Edwards could have done that, don't you think he would have? (4.00 / 2)
I'd guess that he only confirmed the rumor because someone had enough evidence to force him to.  I doubt he volunteered the information that will remove him from the Attorney Generalship, just to entertain himself.

It seems reasonable to conclude that someone did have proof, or at least considerably more proof than anyone had on McCain.

Alternately, McCain might actually be more protected by being the nominee, and this might conceivably have not come out had Edwards been the nominee, because there would be more institutional support backing him up.  I don't know enough to speculate about that though.

[ Parent ]
Like I said (4.00 / 1)
It may be understandable that he did it, but not that he did it while running for President.  It was that choice he wasn't willing to make.  That's the point.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
Cracked logic (4.00 / 1)
Apparently, a powerful and wealthy man not running for any office had an affair.  This has never happened before.

Except, of course, he WAS running for office when he had his fling -- and, Matt, this was not just ANY office, but the HIGHEST office there is. Sheesh.

If I'm gonna slam McCain for his affair (4.00 / 3)
then I'd be a hypocrite to give Edwards a total pass on this. What he does in his personal life is his business. But when he runs for president knowing this time bomb is in his closet, that really pisses me off.

Funny how Stoller goes from demonizing any Democrats who are worried about the Enquirer story, then the next day acts like it's such a common thing that why should anyone treat it as news? Show some consistency, dude. It's kind of a big deal that Edwards lied to us while running for president and almost sabotaged 2008 for us.

my bad (0.00 / 0)
Chris was wrong, not Nick.  
[ Parent ]
dude (0.00 / 0)
mccain opposes same sex marriage and is running from a base that says it has values when it doesn't.  An analogy would be if it were revealed that Edwards was getting funded by corporate interests.  It's the discrepancy between professed values, real values, and policy that matters--his marriage is his and his wife's and whoever else is involved's business.
[ Parent ]
It's not just the reputation of the "man" that's at stake (0.00 / 0)
It's also what he stood for: helping the poor, lifting the downtrodden, creating opportunity for the little guy. The right wing meme for anyone who champions these causes is that he's just a "do-gooder" posturing as a morally superior person, because at heart, all people are really just out for themselves, and anyone who appears to be trying to make a positive difference for the less fortunate is just a phony. In one fail swoop, Edwards has just reinforced this whole mythology.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...
if someone's support for the disempowered is built entirely on one politician's marital fidelity (4.00 / 2)
there's some serious rethinking that needs to happen.  He's just a man.  Like every other politician.
[ Parent ]
Thank you! (0.00 / 0)
He would be a big phony if he talked about fidelity and abstinence all day, or if he robbed a food bank or something.
[ Parent ]
You're both in denial (0.00 / 0)
You're insisting on a rational response regardless of the irrationality of politics.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...
[ Parent ]
Granted (0.00 / 0)
But we can look back to the FDR administration to remind ourselves that we don't have to care about sex & gossip above all other things.  It's a choice we've all made together.

And I'm helping, by commenting.  I'm going to think about something else now.

[ Parent ]
in denial about what? (0.00 / 0)
i thought he was a crook before and i think he's a crook now :)  essentially all politicians are crooks imo...the quicker we learn that, the less the presidency will continue to be seen as monarchical and more like prime ministers.  that's what makes the hypocrisy of the moral majority agenda so amusing and its power so frightening.

honestly, it's more problematic to me that he allegedly gave this woman money out of his campaign funds.  i don't expect people to  have rational responses to anything, given that we rarely do...just hope for measured, balanced, etc. :)

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
Now that you mention it...

The former U.S. senator from North Carolina told a town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H., Dec. 29 that "gay marriage" is the "single hardest social issue for me personally" and that he has "great conflict" internally over it.

"Most of the [other social issues] I don't have a lot of personal struggle with," he said. "I have a lot of personal struggle with this one.... It's very easy for me to say, civil unions? Yes. Partnership benefits? Yes.... It's a jump for me to get to gay marriage, and I haven't yet gotten across that bridge. But it is something I struggle with."

I want, have wanted, to give him the benefit of the doubt on this-- he seems to want, or wants us to think he wants, to support marriage equality, he just can't bring himself to do it, he's "not there yet". He did want a full DOMA repeal. That's more support, and more honesty, than some politicians will give us on the subject. And Elizabeth Edwards has been admirably unashamed throughout to support gay marriage openly and vocally.

But this is something that has bothered me about the Edwards candidacy from the beginning-- that it's a "struggle" for him just to say that gay people deserve equal rights, that he was so blatantly and nastily against marriage equality in 2004 back before he needed the progressives so badly. And I kind of have to say, to find out that at the same time all that strugglin' on whether nontraditional marriages deserve tolerance was amounting to nothing-- that he'd apparently already lost the struggle on whether or not he was going to honor the rules of his own marriage? It hurts.

Take a look over the LGBTosphere today, I'm already seeing commenters all over the place who are a LOT more bothered by this than I am...

[ Parent ]
two pieces of news i read today (0.00 / 0)
John Edwards confirms affair.
>White House instructs CIA officials to forge documents for leadup to Iraq War.

If Edwards was running for office, then this would be a story with legs.  It's not.  It's an interesting story, mainly gossip, has some political ramifications, maybe good fodder for a thought piece about how Americans vs. people in European countries deal with their politicians having affairs, but beyond that it's not really news.

The political question is mainly how to make other people realize this.

The Man Could've Been Attorney General of the United States (0.00 / 0)
Stupid. Edwards is going to be radioactive for a while now, and Obama loses an extremely qualified potential member of his administration.
still can (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Doubt It (4.00 / 1)
Whether we like it or not, there's no such thing as privacy for public figures in today's society. Edwards knew this. He knows the rules of the game.

It'll be very hard for Obama to set up a new administration built around the ideals of transparency and ethics and restoring dignity and honesty to the Executive Branch with a man like Edwards as Attorney General who just admitted to an extra-marital affair and who hid it not only from his wife but also hid it from the country as he ran for the highest office in the land. And that's to say nothing of the fact that the position of Attorney General, in principle, should be filled by someone with unimpeachable character who doesn't have any skeletons which could potentially compromise their ability to prosecute those who break the laws of the United States. And yes, I know J Edgar Hoover allegedly enjoyed cross dressing just like I know JFK and FDR had affairs. But that was a different time, and in 2008 the rules of politics are what they are and John Edwards is now radioactive.

I don't think Edwards is evil. I don't think he's morally bankrupt beyond redemption. But I do think he was weak, and I think he was stupid. And, unfortunately, his lack of good sense hurts the Democratic Party, hurts the labor movement by robbing them of one of their best champions, and it hurts a potential Obama administration by robbing them of a talented potential AG.

[ Parent ]
yeah he's also only 55 (4.00 / 1)
McCain was in his 50s when he was involved in the Savings and Loans scandal.  Which, interestingly, is a similar problem to the "mortgage crisis"/food crisis/speculation involving business men and corrupt politicians screwing over countless people.
[ Parent ]
McCain Had a Senate Seat (4.00 / 2)
But McCain had a safe Senate seat from which to ride out the storm and rebuild his image, and it took him over a decade to do so.

For Edwards to become AG he'd have to rebuild his image within the next 6-1/2 or so years. Long story short, I think he's definitely out as far as being AG from day one for Obama, and I wonder if he can really stay relevant enough to stay high on the list to get the job later on in an Obama administration.

It's really too bad. Labor would've benefitted enormously from Edwards as AG.

[ Parent ]
well i guess we'll see how much courage Obama has (0.00 / 0)
:)
[ Parent ]
Career-ending? (0.00 / 0)
Everybody calm down.  Bill Clinton is still venerated by millions, David Vitter & Larry Craig are still Senators, etc. etc.

It's nice and salacious and totally unimportant and will go away soon.

Also, for those of you who gave countless hours and dollars to this campaign - or will, for any campaign in the future - keep in mind that the man or woman you're volunteering for believes in his or her heart that they are the right person to personally oversee the world's largest nuclear arsenal and the most massive military machine in the history of the Earth.

Which is to say, they are tremendously egotistical.  Large egos breed these sorts of mistakes.

Also, they are human beings.

well, a caveat (0.00 / 0)
That came out really condescending.  I understand feelings of betrayal because it's true that this would have been very, very bad if he were the nominee and may well have sunk the whole thing.

But, in addition to being cynical about politicians, maybe we could try being a little forgiving, too.  The guy screwed up, but it's not like he killed somebody.

If we can forgive him the Iraq War vote, why not this?

[ Parent ]
Now, for a real way forward on this, (4.00 / 1)
it would be worth pressing on some of the larger facts of the case.  Such as, apparently many many politicians are doing this, and there's some weird ecology of who gets outed, who gets punished, and who gets to cry a whole deep river when it happens.

That's a problem, because it creates an avenue for the corruption of politics.  ("An" avenue; of course there are many others.)  Specifically, if lots of people cheat, and everybody agrees to lie about it, except occasionally when someone is "caught", in which case they're exiled, then the important questions are, what is the process by which people get "caught", and is it being applied in some reasonably fair or neutral way, or is it subject to being stacked?  There's a discontinuity between what people pretend is happening in politicians' personal lives, and what really is happening, and if that discontinuity is subject to being exploited by any particular faction, that would be a disrupting force in the normal, appropriate course of democratic politics.

So for instance, if control over DOJ means one side gets to out all the other side's governors, that would be a serious problem (disrupt the balance of powers, make control of DOJ an excessively important prize), remediable by either exposing all the cheating politicians, or changing what Americans expect from their politicians, or both.

But if this discontinuity exists, and just lingers, then it becomes yet one more factor damaging our ability to conduct real politics in this country.  And countries with sclerotic politics die.

btw, (0.00 / 0)
Elizabeth Edwards says STFU, too.

Rock the Boat
I have no interest in, I told you so's (0.00 / 0)
It surprises me that you put this in terms of right and wrong, as if it really matters who's right and who's wrong, what matters is the truth coming to light and the bullshit being dispelled.  There is no liberal truth or conservative truth, or right-leaning truth or left-leaning truth, only the truth and the other side -- fiction, elaborately constructed fabrications, and lies.  A story entirely constructed from the imagination can give you the ultimate truth, and the story constructed entirely with hard facts can create the perfect lie, the most believable fantasy, the ultimate deception. I have no interest in saying I told you so or being right, my only interest is that people keep their minds open, and think for themselves.  And never allow any ideology or preconceptions to blind you to truth which is often right before your eyes, or the truth which is hidden behind 'layers of obfuscation.' The more of us that can see clearly, the better it gets for everyone, I've got to believe that.

Nor am I one who will condemn John Edwards as a betrayer, because I saw through his act years ago, so I'm not disappointed our surprise, just a little exhausted and sad for all those folks who put their hopes and dreams into a guy that really wasn't worthy of your hopes and dreams. And the way I see it, he was able to sucker you because he told you all the things you wanted to hear, pandered to your ideological beliefs, in a way that was painfully obvious to me, but some people live to be pandered to I suspect, I just do my best to avoid being one of them. John knew what he was doing was wrong, and I'm not talking about the infidelity, I'm talking about his apparent belief that he could get away with his deception, that he thought it was acceptable to try and fool the people he proposed to work for, that is where his unforgivable moral deficiency lies. Every man has the God-given right to lie to his wife, but no politician has the right to deceive the American people, because they work for us, and we must never forget that.

I just hope everyone here will wake up from your comfortable slumber, wake your minds to the reality of the world as it is, as opposed to the realities you construct within your minds and would overlay upon the world, like some transparency placed upon an overhead projector, that creates an image of exactly what you want to see, exactly how you want to see it. There are those in this world who count on us manipulating ourselves in such a manner, and often these people pretend to be our friends, when they are anything but.  We need to rid our political system of such people, no easy task I'll grant you, but I think that this purging is vital to the survival of the Republic.

The Democrats have made a great start, jettisoning the Clintons, which have been weighing us down like a stone around her neck since the 90s, we need to rid ourselves of all those who would try to teach us to be thankful for what we've got and not expect anything more, anything better, while at the same time running interference for the Republicans who are trying to steal our country out from under us.

And now Edwards, a man who didn't have the integrity to come clean to his own supporters, a man who was willing to sacrifice this country's future for his own personal ambition, would come along and help give the GOP exactly what they want, control of this country in perpetuity.  Time for the Democrats to send a message to everyone seeking political office, that what was once good enough just doesn't cut it anymore.  That if you want to lead us, you'd better start demonstrating your leadership by putting your trust in the people you propose to work for, and always being completely straight with us, otherwise we're not going to waste our time with you, period.

Think of it this way, we dodged two bullets Clinton and Edwards, no need to thank us Obama supporters, just throw money at the Obama campaign.  Let's get together and get this country back on track and stop playing childish churlish partisan games, that only distract us from the most pressing issues, and stop take our eyes off the ball, and the ball is the Republic and the good of the Republic, and maintaining a free and open democracy, so that government of the people, by the people, and for the people, shall not perish from the earth, that must be our paramount concern.

On John Edwards | 100 comments
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