Popular v. Electoral College Margins

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 17:27


In my diary last weekend, "Swing State Clusters Tell Story of Potential 'Map-Changing' Obama Landslide", I pointed out how the punditalkcrazy has been utterly oblivious to the actual configuration of battleground states as revealed by state-level polling this year.  Regardless of what the national polls say, there just doesn't seem to be much chance that, even at his best, McCain could win more than one or two Kerry states, while Obama could easily pick off half a dozen, even a dozen Bush states.  As I argued in my previous diary today, "Electoral Map Typology", it is quite likely the map will change in this election for many elections to come.

This week, Mark Nickolas, Managing Editor of Political Base, made a somewhat related argument, that the media doesn't really appreciate how siginificant a seemingly "small" five point lead is when you look at the electoral college.  His post, "Popular Vote v. Electoral College (Why The Media Badly Needs A History Lesson)"--republished at Huffington Post here--is refreshingly blunt:

Despite Obama's amazingly consistent lead throughout the general election, the talking heads on cable television returned to their incessant bloviating over whether Obama should be leading by more than just five points over McCain. It's really painful to watch these fools who don't bother to pay attention to history to understand how a five-point popular vote victory translates when it comes to the only metric that matters -- the Electoral College. (Hint: it translates to a landslide)

And his chart of popular vote margins to EV margins is pretty straightforward:

Paul Rosenberg :: Popular v. Electoral College Margins
Nickolas also produced a table of the underlying figures, which I've resorted according to popular vote margins:

If we take this table, slice it up, and match the numbers with the electoral college maps, then whole story becomes a bit more vivid.  It also throws further light on my earlier discussions of electoral maps over the last century, here and here.


Election Margins -0.5% to 2.4%

The first slice contains two slices within it - first from -0.5% to 0.7%, second from 2.1% to 2.4%.  The reason for putting these two slices together will become obvious from the associated maps:


There are obviously two distinct slices here.  1960, 1968 and 2000 are truly close, close elections. So close that loser "won" in 2000.   In contrast to these elections, margins of 2 points or more seem quite comfortable-especially after the fact.  But if we look at both slices together, we find that we have all the electoral maps in two separate groups that I described in my last diary, "Electoral Map Typology".  Bush's two elections comprise their own group, which is an offshoot from the main sequence of Republican-dominated maps.  The main sequence moves from Republican landslides with a sprinkling of Democratic states (1972, 1980, 1984, 1988) to Republican dominance over a Southern-centered Democratic Party, with the Democratic base growing stronger until it finally becomes a majority.  Bush's two victories form an offshoot that's unique, since it centers on the South, previously the Democrats' base.

The other three maps here are from another anomalous group-at least it was anomalous at one time.  There really was no precedent for Kennedy's 1960 victory map, but Humphrey in 1968 and Carter in 1976 both came up with geographically quite similar maps, and Clinton latter consolidated the patchwork into his own distinct map type, winning a very similar pattern of states in both his elections.  So what we have here, in these two slices of close and super-close elections, are distinctive configurations that first appeared in 1960 and 2000.  The first recurred again in 1968 and 1976, the second recurred in 2004.  That's three of five elections from 1960 to 1976 (interspersed with two landslides, one Democratic, one Republican) and two of two elections from 2000 to 2004.

These are what truly close elections look like, and it certainly is conceivable that John McCain could win such an election this year, with a map very similar to 2000 and 20004.  But right now, that is not what the polls are showing.  They are showing something closer to an Obama victory that generally falls into the next category.

Election Margins 4.5% to 8.5%

Here, again we combine two slices to give a little bigger picture.  Here we see one pattern that crosses over the divide-Clinton's two geographically similar vicotries.  But we also see significant differences in crossing the divide.


The first slice, Truman's 1948 election and Clinton's 1992 election, is the one that Nickolas cites as most directly comparable.  The dominance of tighter polls from Gallup and Rasmussen may make his ballpark of a 5-point Obama lead seem a bit high, but with Obama putting states like Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota and Montana into play, there does seem to be good reason to see the maps for these two quite different elections as broadly indicative of what we might see come November.  These are very comfortable Electoral College victories-landslides, if you will.  But they are not geographical landslides, landslides that isolate the states supporting the losing candidates into a few small islands of support.

Crossing over into the second slive, we start to see signs of geographical, as well as Electoral College landslides.   In 1988, Democrat states were limited to four small enclaves-one of them a single small state. In 1944, the Great Plains were the only geographical region that the Republicans held.  In 1996, the Republicans carried a significant number of states, but they were divided from each other into three blocks-and again, one of those was just a single small state.  The divide between Truman's 1948 victory and Roosevelt's 1944 victory is where I earlier drew the line over what I was willing to call a landslide.  That divide shows up here as well, and it seems well justified in terms of geography, and the electoral vote margin.  However, there is no doubt that Truman's victory was a very solid one.

In contrast, from here on out, we're only talking further degrees of landslide, and the elections fall fairly neatly into three clumped groups.

Election Margins 9.7% to 10.9%

Empirically, this is the minimal level for an unambiguous landslide.


The three elections in this slice are widely separate in time and flavor.  Roosevelt's 1940 margin was a decline from even more overwhelming margins in the two previous elections.  Eisenhower and Reagan were both elected in repudiation of their predecessors' difficulties, particularly with foreign affairs.

Election Margins 15.4% to 18.2%

This is where crushing landslides begin.


Two of these elections were re-elections, and two were first term.  Interestingly, the first term landslides were back-to-back-Hoover in 1928, FDR in 1932.


Election Margins 22.6% to 24.3%

These landslides only exist to make those above look puny.


Conclusion

Now, no one's saying this is going to be 1936.  But it could be something close to 1932 or 1956 if McCain has a total meltdown at the debates.   But even without that, something in the 4.5-8.5% range is quite doable, and would result in an Electoral College landslide of something like 200 votes.  Right now, a total blowout for Obama is just as likely as a squeaker victory for McCain-if not moreso.


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state-level polling looks good now (0.00 / 0)
My concern is that the state polls seem to lag the national polls by a few weeks (or did in 2004). So tightening in the national polls might show up in the state polls, but not until next month.

I agree with you that looking at the up-for-grabs states, a lot more of them are Bush states than Kerry states, and that bodes ill for McCain.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


Except these numbers have been close nationally for a few weeks (4.00 / 1)
and if anything the state level polling as widen in some places or remained exactly the same.  One only comes to your conclusion, by the way, if one only looks at Rammussen, and ignores Gallup. To me, I don't understand the rational for selectively choosing the worse possible polling while ignoring all others.  

[ Parent ]
Part of the problem remains people like Jerome Armstrong (4.00 / 4)
who this week alone has been pushing the meme variously that Obama is the weakest candidate Democrats have seen in a decade (factually that's just false) and that just today he argues that Obama is statistically in a deadheat with McCain without anything but one poll upon which to make his claim. He is hardly the only one engaged in the MSM blogsphere making such claims. You can catch similar claims from Big Tent Democrat over at Talk Left. My point is that the MSM itself isn't the only voice driving this. It's probably this and the forces behind trying to get Obama to pick a centrist/conservative Democrat since the solution that these bloggers inevitably push are centrist/conservative choices. I know we like simiple models, but as the Democrats as a party gains power, there are forces within it that are trying to keep or grow thier power. The centrists/conservatives are doing this as we speak. Its in their interest to keep alive the image that Obama is weak. ie, if he's weak, he needs them. if he's strong, then he can pick a VP choice that's more progressive. Now, I don't pretend Obama isn't a cautious guy or that he's not capable of centrism. My point is simply to point out how these voices in the blogsphere are playing out to aid and abedd the MSM meme. These guys like BTD and Armstrong aren't stupid. They see the same polling data as the rest of us. They know that it's a slight to 5 point Obama natioanl lead. They know the state by state polling favors Obama in a way that it never favored Kerry, and perhaps even Gore. So, I am left to come up with my own theories based on their prescription to Obama's "weakness."

Sure There Are Such Voices In The Blogosphere (0.00 / 0)
But I don't think that very many people are pursuaded.  The blogosphere is simply too wide-open and democratic a place.  I think those voices serve mainly to prop up the beliefs of people looking for confirmation.  I doubt if they influence many beyond that.  And I say that as someone who's had a good deal of respect for both of them, without always agreeing with them.  (I'm not all that centrist, as some folks might have noticed.)

The situation is quite different with Versailles media.  It's very top-down, very closed, very anti-democratic, so these sorts of deceptive narratives are much more of a factor there.

You may well be right about what's driving people to do this.  I haven't paid enough attention to venture an informed opinion.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I agree that other bloggers who are following the actual numbers (0.00 / 0)
and who are open minded wont be convinced by BTD and Armstrong. But, I do think they offer a kind of confer to the MSM that "well if the bloggers aren't agreeing then we are okay" to the situation.  They don't have to have the same motives, and to be quite frank- my speculation on that front was irrelevant (now that I think about it.). The key is that it serves a function like the centrists themselves- to sustain a narrative that's plainly false because that narrative benefits the speaker somehow rahter than the Democrats in general.

[ Parent ]
Much simpler than this. (4.00 / 1)
BTD and Jerome both support Clinton, and maintain that Clinton would've been a stronger candidate, therefore Obama must a weak candidate -- the weaker, the better Clinton looks.

[ Parent ]
Yes, I know, But (4.00 / 1)
isn't it just a wee bit late in the game for that?

I mean, I think Garfield was a real mistake, too, but you don't see me posting about it every other day, do you?

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Never said it was a good thing. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
that's probably right (4.00 / 1)
that and they both have big egos that can't handle criticism. they say they can but having lurked, i can tell they can't

[ Parent ]
Actually (0.00 / 0)
I'm sort of wrong -- BTD always claimed he was a "tepid Obama supporter". But it's so easy to forget that...

[ Parent ]
but there is no contradiction in your overall point (4.00 / 2)
its very clear that he is impervous when it comes to his HRC must be VP meme to any facts to the contrary. When the data about low income white voters came out showing Obama actually out performing Kerry, he still found a way to mangle that into "well, but he would do much better with Clinton." About only point on the VP selection that I agree with is that Obama does seem determined to pick someone milktoast and uninspired. Now that Edwards is out, I would prefer Clark because he has the chutzpah to keep the GOP on the defensive. If you want a real landslide rather than squeaker it requires taking a chance.  I just don't know if Obama has that kind of chutzpah. He's just a play it safe type. I think the numbers are good by the way, but I do see his point about taking risks- I just don't think Clinton is much of a good choice. I used to be okay with her, but the more I've thought about it, the less i see her adding that omph Obama needs to take him emotionally to another place. She would mostly be aknown quantity in a way that doesn't completely help. Whereas Clark's style - even with his supposed gaffe was exactly the character building approach that the Demcorats need. In other words, what I would love to start hearing people say is "You know that Obama and Clark, I don't always agree with them, but I trust them because they tell it like they see it and they stick with it." At the end of the Clark 'gaffe" the reality is that a lot of people , even if it wasn't  seen int he MSM, came to respect clark even if they weren't his biggest fans. that's the character divide that democrats as a group don't understand.

[ Parent ]
Clark would be my pick as well (0.00 / 0)
but Clinton would be a better choice (in my opinion) than most of the names I hear mentioned on Obama's short list.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

[ Parent ]
well I agree with that too (4.00 / 1)
She has her flaws , but her ability to rip out their spines and laugh while doing it factor can not be under estimated. The primaries being amongst Democrats meant she had to hold back (believe it or not) but there is no such limitation on the GE with McCain and whatever republican he has as his VP. This ability to go for the jugular is my primary concern over Obama. people point out his backgrond as a community organizer as a strength,b ut that kind of background has a double edge sword. People want to couch things in terms of getting things done by building people together, but sometimes, you got to be able to have killer instincts. Obama has them, but his team doesn't seem to realize how far they could be if they would start exercising them. I believe the right VP can push him whereas the wrong one will reinforce the instinct to go soft. He says he's looking for someone to compliment him. On the one hand, that can be seen as Bowers puts it- and I don't per se have a problemw ith that. but on the leadership emotional style- he really does need a bad cop. He can be the good cop all he wants, but to have both the VP and the President be good cops is a dangerous carter-esque move I don't favor.

[ Parent ]
another way to look at it is thru Bowers swing state overview chart (0.00 / 0)
Obama is already at 306 electoral votes if you include every state in which he leads in the polls.

Obama is at 381 electoral votes counting all the states he is 3.6 percent behind or less. (this includes the long shot of NC)

Then we see 6-7% leads by McCain in Lean McCain states. (Hard to imagine Obama taking Texas...)

Is 381 a landslide? EV margin = 209.

How about 366 without NC? The electoral vote margin would be 179.

And that is with Rassmussen at -1

http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


Agreed (0.00 / 0)
But I sort of did that last week.  So many arguments, so little time.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
As I keep saying (4.00 / 3)
this race is far more in doubt than people think.

Many of the states in the electoral maps are based on one or two polls.  Moreover half (35 of 71) of the state polls in July are coming from one pollster: Rasmumussen.  56 of 71 are from 4 pollsters. If Rasmussen is wrong (and they were way off in 2000, and were not very good in the 2008 primaries) then these maps people are making are completely worthless.

You can perform all sorts of complicated analysis, and you can draw really pretty pictures on maps of the US.  

But I think places like 538 are suggesting far more certaintly in their calculations than the data or history support.  


I Agree That We Could Use A Whole Lot More Data (0.00 / 0)
One reason I scrutinized the SUSA VP matchups so carefully was that I thought they provided a good deal of comparable information that could help give us a sense of a background benchmark.

As for projecting certainty, I don't read 538 that way.  Precise numbers are not the same as certainty, but merely an indication of a finely-tuned model.  (Former math major here.)  It's still a matter of judgment how to interpret the model, how much weight to give it vs. other information, etc.  (Jamesian pragmatism. Former philosophy major, too.)

One reason I started doing this series was pretty much in sympathy with the point you're making.  I realized that we don't really know how much trust we can put into state-by-state polls.  So I figured two things.  First, that an aggregate of polls in a region would provide a better indication, so I should focus on clusters of states.  Second, that it could be helpful to look at how electoral maps have changed in the past to sharpen my intuition about how they might change now.

None of this yields precise information, like confidence levels and the like.  But it's a damn sight better than just blindly ignoring state polls on the one hand, or over-depending on them, and assuming they have more data behind them than they actually do.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
except when you look at where Obama is spending money and time (4.00 / 2)
you see the same swing states...nevada, florida, ohio, indiana, virginia, new mexico, colorada, etc.

He has access to much more sophisticated polling and i think he thinks that the can win NM, CO, NV, VA and IN and WI and MI. And he is making  the traditional play for OH and FL and MO.

The yucca mt. ad and hillary's NV visit were pretty decent investments in a red state.

My gut tells me the polling we are seeing is pretty darned accurate and if anything many of the state polls are minimizing Obama's support.

That said its never good to be too over confidant...



[ Parent ]
I give props to the Obama campaign for assuming the race will be close (4.00 / 1)
I say this for two reasons:

a) As 538 points out and I've seen this elsewhere, Obama has 1) aggressively pursued organizing in every state in which he is competitive (this is far more than Kerry did at this point in the race in 2004) and 2) he's aggressively pursued registering people to vote early and building a strong GOTV that is considered several times better than McCains. What killed Kerry in 2004 was that he did this all last minute. My friend who does this sort of stuff for a living told me in 2004 that if the election was close that Kerry would lose because things he should have been doing to organize in 2004, he only did weeks before in swing states like OH. REmember the 'surprise" 3500 volunteers for Bush versus the last minute build up by progressives. We even then only lost by 120,000 votes. As someone on 538 points out- an increase of just 4 percent in the Democratic enclaves with Kerry's numbers wins the state. Given the organization going on under the radar rather than in front of it- this is possible. We  have the extra advantage of having a lot more votes to mine that the GOP doesn't have. Rove mined them all in 2004. What's left? Evangelicals? Not likely. Independents? Just as likely to split between Obama and McCain. More importantly there is the shifting partisan breakdown that favors Democrats and the fact that Democrats are registering at a rate higher than the GOP by several factors (saw something like 10 to 1 in reference to someone's analysis fo the NY Times article on the subject).

b) He has also been smart about his marketing and ad campaigns. Where he choose to use negative ads, he's doing so smartly (ie, Yucca Mt for Nevada and trade for OH).

I don't think anyone thinks its in the bag. But I do think its important to suss out where the race is right now. It's not doom and gloom, but its going to be a pitched battle. I like our chances better than theirs.  I like that Obama has shown as of this week that he's capable of adapting his campaign to meet McCain's attacks. I agree with Lux however that its not enough to merely defend, you must go on offensive. With the microtargeting I believe Obama maybe doing this. Certainly with Yucca and trade he's shown some smarts.

No one questions the pitched battle, but they should definitely question the media narrative of a tie. Remember they aren't merely saying its close (which is a more fair assessement) but that it's tied (which isn't factually supported unless one cherry picks rather than looking at all polls together).


[ Parent ]
If the race remains close (0.00 / 0)
the model that I am using this year shows the following as the closest states.  All of the other states show a 5 point margin are greater.  Obama has 280 EV's in the model (which predicts he wins all but New Hampshire of the Kerry states, AND Iowa, New Mexico and Ohio).  Obama's EV majority is based Entirely on winning Ohio.  He can also get to 270 by winning Colorado plus either Nevada or New Hampshire.  The model by its very nature cannot handle states with significant shifts from prior elections.  Thus it predicts Obama loses Virgnina and Montana by 5, North Carolina by 8 and North Dakaota by 10.  

Here is Obama's projected share of the two party vote in the closest states:

Colorado 48.6
Nevada 49.1
New Hampshire 49.9
Ohio 50.6
Michigan 50.9
New Mexico 51.2
Pennsylvania 52.1



[ Parent ]
good points, especially about 2004 being the GOP high-water mark (0.00 / 0)
for getting their voters out.  They cannot mine for many more.  They just don't exist.  The voters out there to mine are OUR voters.

For some reason, it seems that Obama has some pathological and deep-seated psychological need for Republicans to like him.  Seriously.  It's weird.

[ Parent ]
see this http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/obama-leads-better-than-31-in-field.html#comments (0.00 / 0)
check out some of the comments. What's interesting is what is happening on the ground. Again contrast this with 2004 where Kerry relied on 527s who were mostly disorganized and they did all this last minute (I ws part of one of the efforts, and it was a mess). Just saying keep all of this in perspective.

[ Parent ]
Good point on Rasmussen (0.00 / 0)
And it has to be asked: If you think the Rasmussen state poll data is reliable, how can you ignore the Rasmussen national poll, which right now shows the advantage of Obama to have shrunk to a pathetic 1%? All this brouhaha about landslides makes me worry about a dangerous overconfidence among Obama supporters.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Actually, Fladem Has Written About This VERY Point (4.00 / 1)
Rasmussen national and state polls contradict one another, and no one's provided a good explanation for it.

But it's worth noting that their state polls overall are more in line with others than their national polling is.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
The Western States that Obama wins in 2008 is identical to the Western States Clinton won in 1992 (0.00 / 0)
Western States Clinton won in 1992
California
Colorado
Hawaii
Montana
Nevada
New Mexico
Oregon
Washington

Western States Obama should or could win in 2008
California-
Colorado
Hawaii
Montana
Nevada
New Mexico
Oregon
Washington.

Obama like Clinton in 1992 and 1996 will win all of the Northeastern States. and will win all of the Midwestern States Clinton won in 1992 and 1996 plus Indiana
Illinios
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Ohio
Wisconsin

Regarding the South.
Clinton won in 1992 and 1996
Arkansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Tennessee
West Virginia

Obama will win
Florida
North Carolina
Virginia

Obama flips
1)Iowa
2)New Mexico
3)Colorado
4)Ohio
5)Nevada
6)Virginia
7)Montana
8)Florida
9)Indiana
10)Missouri
11)North Carolina

Obama carries 31 states 378 ev
McCain carries 20 states 160 ev


Gosh (4.00 / 2)
That's was easy. Let's go get lunch!

Seriously, it's too early for hand wringing or triumphalism. We know with about 95% certainty that Obama's going to get a mammoth convention bounce. Once that registers in both national and state polls, we'll have a real picture of what the state of play will be heading into the Fall. My guess is that Obama will be in a heckuva a position heading into the stretch grind.

This has always been a three act play, in my mind, and we're just now ending the first act. I expected Obama to get a bounce after Clinton dropped out and McCain to burn a lot of money to try and make up the difference in the summer. That's Act One, and it's gone about as I expected, with some minor variations that have been for the most part favorable to Obama. I'm concerned about the weakness he's shown in Missouri relative to Florida. I would've thought the polling situations would be flipped in those two states. I'm surprised Obama has polled so weakly in South Carolina. I expected him to be better there. And, I've been surprised by just how strong Obama is running in Montana and the Dakotas.

Act two will be the VP selections and the conventions. To me, McCain is at a significant disadvantage in act two. There really aren't any VP contenders on the GOP side that I think will move the meter nationally or even at a state level, and I think McCain's convention speech will probably have all the zest of a piping warm bowl of cream of wheat. Obama, if he really has the guts, has the opportunity to pick an electrifying VP candidate who will move the dial. My guys have been Sherrod Brown and Brian Schweitzer throughout this process, but I think even Claire McCaskill is capable of making an impact on this race. And, obviously, if he picked Clinton it would move the dial for the Democrats. And, I think we all know the convention speech is Obama's best format, and I think he's shown that he elevates his game for big speeches. I really think he's the Michael Jordan of this format, and I suspect he could gain a lead he never again relenquishes once he does give his convention speech. Obama at Mile High may very well set a standard for political stagecraft which campaigns will try (and fail) for decades to match.

Act three will be the Fall grind and the debates. Obama will need to play mistake free with no unforced errors in act three and that should be able to get him the victory. My biggest concern for Obama's campaign is the debates. He was not good in the debate format in the primaries, and it really reinforces the idea that he's just a good speech giver who doesn't have the chops to really govern. The good news is, I don't think McCain is a terribly strong debater either, and I think Obama might be able to provoke McCain's temper fairly easily in the debate format. My suggestion to Barack would be to watch what Kerry did in the debates in 2004. Be calm. Take notes to look like you're paying attention to your opponent and to avoid any sighs or facial gestures that the media might seize upon. Be thoughtful. Don't be nasty. And when McCain does make an error, pick it up and stick the shiv in him with a charming smile.

In the end, I expect Obama to win fairly comfortably. At the end of the day, I think McCain is a tomato can and probably an even weaker candidate than Dole was in 1996. Against a stronger opponent (which I expect to face in 2012) Obama might be in some trouble though.

If you held a gun to my head: Obama 314, McCain 224. Obama wins all the Kerry states plus the Bush states Montana, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, Ohio, and Virginia, and he comes within an eyelash in the Dakotas, Missouri, Indiana, North Carolina, and Florida. How well Obama governs will decide if he can expand the playing field and pick up some of those states in 2012 or if he'll fall back to playing defense in Ohio, Iowa, and Colorado to try to hold his EV coalition together.


[ Parent ]
You're WAY Too Harsh On Cream of Wheat (0.00 / 0)
I think McCain's convention speech will probably have all the zest of a piping warm bowl of cream of wheat.

Cream of wheat?  Comfort food!  As Homer Simpson would say, "Aaaargh!"  John McCain can only dream of reaching that elevated plateau.

OTOH, I think you've oversold your VP choices as much as you've undersold cream of wheat.  With Edwards obviously out, Wes Clark is only plausible person around I can think of who lives up to your hype.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Our VP's Have Charisma and Fight (0.00 / 0)
I think candidates like Sherrod Brown, Brian Schweitzer, and Claire McCaskill bring a lot to the table in terms of charisma and fight than you give them credit for. These are all office holders from 2004 red states who've made their bones beating Republicans at their own game. I think you undersell them, although I will definitely agree that if Obama picks Bayh, Biden, or Sebelius then yes, he's chosen a running mate without much zip.

As for Clark, I truly believe choosing him is an invitation for trouble. He's never held elected office before and the one time he did run he critically wounded his own campaign within 24 hours of getting in the race by saying he probably would've voted for the authorization of military force in Iraq. Obama needs to stay away from unforced errors, and with Clark it's a good bet that there will be unforced errors. Whether you believe the flap about Clark's comments about McCain's military service was a mistake or not, the truth is it's indicative of the kind of thing you can count on the media using to rake a neophyte like Clark over the coals, and he'll say something like it again.

Plus, picking Clark will allow McCain's enablers in the media to claim that the only reason Obama picked him is because he's a babe in the woods incapable of dealing with the world's bad guys without a general holding his hand. To me, it would undo all the work Obama put in on his European trip to prove he's credible on foreign policy in his own right. Picking Clark might have the unintended effect of making him look weaker on national security.

Finally, the number one issue in this election is the economy and its link to energy costs. Clark's got a distinguished degree in economics, but I doubt any of the media talking heads will give him credit for it. Given the national climate, I believe a good, strong, kitchen table issues Democrat like Brown or Schweitzer moves more votes than Clark, and it sets up a narrative where Obama is playing on Democratic turf on issues where Democrats usually hold the advantage. I'm not saying that Obama and the Democrats can't beat McCain in this election on foreign policy issues. They can. But why pass up the sure thing, which is to hammer a guy who has admitted he knows squat about the economy, whose party is in the back pocket of the oil industry, and who never met a trade deal he didn't like?


[ Parent ]
The Strong vs Weak Obama States. (0.00 / 0)
The Strong Obama states are
1)California
2)Connecticut
3)Delaware
4)District of Columbia
5)Hawaii
6)Illinios
7)Iowa
8)Maine
9)Maryland
10)Massachussetts
11)Minnesota
12)New Jersey
13)New York
14)Oregon
15)Rhode Island
16)Vermont
17)Washington
18)Wisconsin

Weak Obama States
1)Colorado-(State that Gives Obama his 270ev.
2)Michigan
3)New Hamphire
4)New Mexico
5)Pennsylvania

Tossups
Ohio
Nevada
Virginia

Tossup/Slight McCain
1)Florida
2)Indiana
3)Missouri
4)Montana
5)North Carolina

If their is a state Obama might lose in 2012- It may be Michigan.
Obama has to win all of the Kerry States plus Iowa and New Mexico. 247 ev. Colorado and Nevada 261ev. I will add Montana 264 ev. North Dakota- 267ev. and Alaska- 270ev. or Arizona  


[ Parent ]
Fools? (0.00 / 0)
"It's really painful to watch these fools who don't bother to pay attention to history to understand how a five-point popular vote victory translates when it comes to the only metric that matters -- the Electoral College."

And it's also painful to watch those fools who don't bother to pay attention to history to understand how a five-point lead in the polls can evaporate when it comes to the only metric that matters -- the Electoral College.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


I"m Not Objecting To Discussions of How The Race May Change (0.00 / 0)
The problem is that the dominant narrative fundamentally misrepresents the race as it is now.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
This is good analysis (4.00 / 1)
I will say that the fly in the oinment is the south.  Margins in the South tend to be large - so the dominant southern party will see much larger EV margins with a 7 point win.  You can see this by comparing the 1988 Bush EV margin (based on a 7 point win) and the Reagan EV margin (a 10 point win) with the Clinton 9.5 point win in 1996.

Yes, I Think (0.00 / 0)
that the wild card here is just how much that may start to change, if it does change at all.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
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