Mapchanging Fact and Fiction

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 16:35


There is a new poll out today that shows Obama ahead by 5% in Alaska, 45%-40%. It is from a Democratic firm, and outlies a bit from other recent polls in the state. Despite those negatives against the poll, it does at least confirm that Alaska is indeed a swing state in this election. The most recent poll from the four polling organizations to survey Alaska in the past month now show an average of McCain 46.5%--43.0% Obama.

This got me to thinking--what about the other red states that Bush won by about 20% in 2004, but that seem competitive in 2008? These states include Georgia, Indiana, Montana, and North Dakota. The Obama campaign is targeting all of these states with paid media and staff, so they feel it might be competitive, too.

To answer this question, follow me to the extended entry for a quick round of mapchanging fact and fiction, deep red state edition.

Chris Bowers :: Mapchanging Fact and Fiction
Question: Like Alaska, Are These Deep Red State Actually Competitive?
  • Georgia: FICTION: Outside of Insider Advantage, a polling firm with a questionable track record, no polling firm has shown Georgia to be truly competitive. The talk of 600,000 unregistered African-Americans in the state also doesn't mean much, because you simply are not going to manage 100% turnout among that group. Fact is, the Obama campaign would be lucky to get 30% of that group to vote, given the wave of voter registration campaigns that already took place from 2004-2008, but somehow missed these voters. Obama won't win Georgia unless he wins nationally by more than 8%. As such, it is not a swing state.

  • Indiana: UNCLEAR: While I lean toward fiction, the truth is that there simply isn't enough recent evidence to know what is happening in Indiana. The polling is really strange--and old. Survey USA, which I trust, confirms Zogby in a close campaign, but both of those polls were taken in June. The trendline also favors Obama in the Downs Center polling, but their last effort was in late April. Other than that, two of the other three firms in the state, all with old polls, show McCain ahead by 8%. However, one shows Obama ahead by 8%, further muddling the picture. While I simply have a very, very hard time believing that Indiana will be competitive this year, there isn't enough evidence to preclude the possibility.

  • Montana: FACT: The simple truth is that there is no way to argue that McCain is ahead in this state. The last poll to show McCain ahead here was Rasmussen in April. However, since then, Rasmussen has released two Montana polls, one with Obama winning, and one with a dead heat. It makes sense, too. Democrats have been on a real roll in Montana for the past four years, and Obama is campaigning here (as recently as the 4th of July) entirely unopposed. Montana even voted for Clinton back in 1992, one of the few non-southern states that Clinton won but both Kerry and Gore lost.

  • North Dakota: FACT: McCain is now purchasing paid media in the state, which is all the confirmation of the close polls you will ever need.

Three key threads uniting the clear mapchanges in Alaska, Montana, and North Dakota, is that all three states have relatively small populations, inexpensive media markets, and were also key nomination contests for Obama that he basically contested unchallenged. With Obama being the only national candidate to campaign in these states for a couple of decades, and since you only need to flip about 50,000 voters in each state to win there, it isn't hard to see how Obama can be competitive in those states in a Democratic year. While it is possible that over the long term, Georgia and Indiana can become the new Virginia and North Carolina, I don't see it happening this cycle. In fact, I would actually put more money on Texas flipping long term than Montana and Indiana, given the huge and growing Latino population in the state. If that ever happened, Republicans would have a generational minority.  


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"If that ever happened, Republicans would have a generational minority. " (0.00 / 0)
Bring on the new Bob Michel!

I once read--then promptly lost--an analysis (4.00 / 1)
of Richardson's impact on Texas. The author's point was that a  relatively modest increase in Latino turnout (given Richardson on the ticket), plus a few points off Bush's numbers with whites (given McCain instead of home state Bush) turned the state into a sure thing!

Of course, without finding the article I can't tell if 'relatively modest' means 'incredibly robust' and 'a few points' means 'complete cratering', but if memory serves, they didn't.


What about North Carolina? (0.00 / 0)
It's a red Southern state that not even Clinton could win. And yet Obama's been down only 2-5% in just about every recent poll. That would seem to be within range of a solid voter registration/GOTV effort. And according to Nate Silver, Obama has 11 field offices in the state, to McCain's 0. As in Indiana, McCain doesn't seem to be contesting the state at all. Add it all up, and it seems to me that North Carolina is a genuine toss-up.

I think Chris already concedes that (0.00 / 0)
that's why he posited the question "...become the new Virgina and North Carolina"

[ Parent ]
Ah. (0.00 / 0)
Re-reading the post, I see the 20% Bush win criterion. So never mind. But I still think NC is a real intriguing red state.

[ Parent ]
I Agree That Georgia's A Fantasy (4.00 / 1)
But fantasies do come true from time to time.  Just don't bet on it.  Much more betable is North Carolina.

If the Dems carry Virginia and North Carolina, the GOP doesn't just lose, it goes into full-fledged hysterical panic mode.  And then Georgia becomes the next North Carolina.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Sweetest thing about that possibility is that (4.00 / 5)
it 'proves' to the extreme right that McCain was too centrist, so next time they can correct the error by choosing Tancredo.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, but (0.00 / 0)
Chris is simply saying GA is not a swing state.  In a landslide, we win a fair number of red, not swing, states like GA.

Not to say a landslide (8+ point win, 370+ EVs) is likely, but it's a distinct possibility.  Currently, that's a 18% chance on 538.com.  But that's just future projections plus statistical error factored in.  The real question is if we are in a 1980 style election, which I think is a real possibility (by which I mean, I think there's a greater than 18% chance of another 1980 transpiring, but less than 50% chance).


[ Parent ]
1980 Was Nothing (0.00 / 0)
Reagan barely cracked 50%.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Too bad all the "fact" states... (4.00 / 1)
...have so feww electoral votes... ND, AK, and MT all add up to only 9...  But, still it's nice to see blue on the map in these regions...

I hope it doesn't all come down to alaska.. Their polls close at like, what, midnight eastern time?  It's going to be a late enough night as it is!!!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


Agreed on the pity of low electoral votes (0.00 / 0)
But it sure would be sweet after we heard again and again from Clinton crazies that Obama couldn't win in deep red caucus states.

[ Parent ]
On the other hand (4.00 / 1)
Like Chris notes, those states give you the best return per voter swung.

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.

[ Parent ]
And challenging Alaska ... (4.00 / 1)
would help rid us of Senator "Toobez!!"

[ Parent ]
9 EVs Is Actually A Lot (0.00 / 0)
Flipping those 3 states and Colorado would have put Kerry into a tie with Bush and flipping any one of those states would have put Gore into a tie with Bush.      

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

[ Parent ]
South Dakota is competitive, too (0.00 / 0)
Obama's only down by about 4 there, last time I saw a poll, and he hasn't even been advertising there.

Other commonalities between Montana, Alaska, and ND: (4.00 / 3)
1) Demographics -- Lilly white states

2) Geography -- Montana and ND are regionally similar and if I had to pick one state that was the most geographically similar to Alaska, I'd go with Montana.

3) Attitude -- These are all frontier states where no one gives a damn about the color of your skin or what church you go to as long as you keep your fences mended, don't rustle cattle or feed the bears, be friendly but polite in public, and otherwise mind your own damn business.


And something else I never see mentioned .. (4.00 / 5)
when you campaign there ... it impresses people .. makes them think you care .. not to mention all the free press it generates .. especially in the small states

[ Parent ]
Exactly (4.00 / 2)
Repub presidential candidates like the Dubya, Bush the Elder and Reagan all visited Montana multiple times. Until Obama's three visits this year, only Clinton stopped by once in 92.

You don't win if you don't show up.


[ Parent ]
Reasons to believe IN might be competitive (0.00 / 0)
One Hoosier once described his home state as "the only southern state in the midwest," a statement which I think is largely accurate. But 2 things distinguish this state from other "southern" states:

First, Indiana actually has several colleges and college towns (South Bend, Bloomington, West Lafayette, Valparaiso). Liberal college students and faculty will clearly be energized by Obama, and this demographic has always been a linchpin of Obama's base.

Second, a good-sized hunk of northwest Indiana is part of the Chicago metropolitan area. As such, it may almost be considered part of Obama's home turf. I believe this area is also much more densely populated than most of the state.

For these 2 reasons, I think it would not be surprising that Obama would outperform. Whether it's enough to take the state, I'm not sure.


Indiana is NOT a southern state (4.00 / 1)
Yes, parts of Indiana are more "south" than Midwest, but no more so than Southern Illinois or Southern Ohio. I lived in Southern Ohio for about 5 years and it is very different from the central and northern part of the state. Indiana has a couple pockets of blue in Bloomington and purple in the suburbs of Louisville and Cincinnati (and maybe Evansville), but that's about it. The Mason Dixon line is in all reality a little bit south of Columbus, Indianapolis, Springfield, etc. The thing is, Indianapolis is about as Midwestern of a city as you can find. If Indinapolis swings Democratic, the state will become a purple long term. Obama is very popular is some of the more affluent suburbs of Indianapolis, which came out much stronger for him than expected in the primaries. These areas are filled with younger suburban/exurban republicans that are swinging away from the GOP across the country.  

Demockracy.com


But (0.00 / 0)
it's voted and acted like one pretty regularly since the beginning of time.

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.

[ Parent ]
Draw a circle (0.00 / 0)
around the bigger cities/towns and the 2 counties in the northwest corner.  These are the northern parts of the state.  Everywhere else is pretty close to Mississippi without the southern drawl.  I believe that the northwest corner is where the election will be decided. Can Obama draw in the white voters that voted for Clinton in the primary?  I really thought Obama would beat Cliton handily in Lake and Porter counties, but it didn't happen.    

[ Parent ]
Texas as swing state (4.00 / 1)
I agree that Texas is a growth area for the left.  First, the Latino population is now the largest ethnic group here.  Second, however, is that our big economic growth has been in the high-tech and entertainment industries, which do not attract conservative employees.  The same dynamic applies in Virginia and North Carolina as well.  The kind of highly educated person who wants to work in those industries isn't going to be attracted to the Texas Republican party AT ALL.   The main problem we've had down here since the 1994 election is that the Dems haven't paid us any attention.  With some help, we could make the place just as blue as it's been red for the last few years.  

What do Alaskans think of the rethuglican oil drill initiative? (0.00 / 0)
Do they think their state would profit from this, or do they fear the environmental risk? This has to be an important topic in Alaska, much more than in other states where the voters will not directly face any environmental desasters. Can Obama score with his more sensitive policy "north to the future"?

Very pro-drilling state (0.00 / 0)
They get checks in the post from the oil companies.  

[ Parent ]
Thx (0.00 / 0)
Ok, what shall we expect from a state with such a ridiculous motto. At least they're honest - the future is south of Alaska. In California, I guess.

[ Parent ]





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