Opposing Bayh for VP

by: Mike Lux

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 17:15


I noted that Greg Sargent mentioned me among several others because I joined the Facebook group opposing Bayh for the Vice Presidential nomination (now up to over 3,200 members). I hadn't been planning on writing on this topic because many others have been doing a good job of it, and because on most things like this my preferred mode is to communicate my views privately to my friends inside the campaign, which I've already done. But since I've been outed, I thought I'd write a quick post as to why I joined the group.
Mike Lux :: Opposing Bayh for VP
I actually like Evan Bayh personally, having met him a few times over the years. I had the pleasure of spending some time getting to know his father at a retreat a few weeks back, and he's a terrific guy, too- I've always been a big admirer of his. I know and respect some of Bayh's long-time staffers, and some progressive people I know in both Indiana and D.C. who know Bayh a lot better than I do tell me he's not as bad as his reputation is, and that if he didn't have to contend with Indiana's conservative politics, he would vote better than he has. I will comfort myself with all of these things should he become the nominee, and they make me think he wouldn't be that much worse from a policy perspective than many of the other people being considered.

The thing is, though, that the symbolism of the Bayh pick would be that Obama was going with the ultimate conventional wisdom pick: a safe, boring, middle-of-the-road white guy, conventional in every way imaginable.

For a candidate that is running on the basis of change, and whose winning has been, and absolutely will be in November, on the basis of passionate young/new voters surging to the polls, running a cautious, careful, safe, boring, conventional wisdom campaign is extremely dangerous. Since the VP pick is the single most visible symbol of how the campaign is being run, the message that Obama really doesn't want to change anything, that he's just going to chart the safest strategy around, will reverberate through the rest of the campaign.

To my friends on the inside: caution is not the answer in this campaign. I know it's the path of least resistance, I know that you've been at this a long time and you are getting close to home, and doing the safe thing seems like the right way to go. But caution kills in Presidential campaigns. Pick a candidate with some edge and bluntness, like Biden. Take an economic populist like Sherrod Brown who can help you with working class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, even if he does make the CW pundits uncomfortable. Take a woman: Hillary Clinton, Kathleen Sebelius, Janet Napolitano all have their pros and cons. Take a soldier with some edge like Wes Clark, even if it will cause the pundits gums to flap.

Evan Bayh is a nice guy. I know he brings some assets to the ticket, especially help in Indiana, and I know some of my friends on the campaign- like Anita Dunn and Jim Margolis and Pete Rouse- are close to him. But I feel like picking him sends the wrong signal.

I would add one final thing- an important one- I don't like about having Bayh be the pick, which is that no other pick would divide the party the way he would. Progressives are not wildly enthusiastic about most of the other people being discussed as short listers, but in my discussions with progressive organizational leaders, donors, bloggers, and other activists, Bayh is literally the only one that everyone feels strongly is a bad idea. If Obama wants a centrist white guy on the ticket, fine, but why go with the one finalist that the progressive community universally has problems with?

I know that many of you in the OpenLeft community have reservations about him, but for my money Joe Biden is the best of the finalists I've been hearing about. He ain't perfect, but he is tough, knowledgeable as hell about national security and foreign policy, a great debater, and will bluntly call bullshit when McCain tries to pull the Obama-is-weak-and-pro-terrorist crap in this campaign. I like having a VP with some edge, and I actually like the fact that Obama is picking the guy who called him "clean and articulate" at the start of this campaign- it gives all those working class white guys out there a sense that Obama isn't too PC, and doesn't take himself too seriously.

So now that you know where I stand, Obama, let's stop messing around and pick your VP, for God's sake- let's roll baby.


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Great post, Mike ... (4.00 / 1)
Thanks for taking the time to articulate it so well.  And interesting point:

Bayh is literally the only one that everyone feels strongly is a bad idea.

This probably has a lot to do with the rapid early growth of the Facebook group, and the relatively large amount of attention the story's been getting.  Somebody mentioned that the "who do you want as VP?" thread on the group's discussion board had about 20 different names in it ... the one thing that unifies people is that they think Bayh would be a bad choice.

jon


Do you think it is a problem (0.00 / 0)
That the "netroots", whatever that is, has been giving a lot of very specific feedback about which VP picks would be unacceptable, but hasn't really been doing much to promote which VP picks that people would like?

the problem is (4.00 / 2)
1. I don't think they care what 'the netroots' think.

2. The names that have been floated have been mostly bad. So it's been a matter of manning the ramparts to beat back the worst candidates from becoming a reality.


[ Parent ]
I think there have been names thrown out there ... (4.00 / 2)
that are acceptable .. Wes Clark .. Gov. Schweitzer of MT .. Sebelius .. Feingold(who I think likes Obama .. just is disappointed re: FISA) .. I could go on .. you'll never get a consensus on who it should be .. but people will know who they don't like .. and Bayh is one

[ Parent ]
Agree (4.00 / 5)
I've also come around to thinking that Biden is the best possible pick. Anyone who refers to Bush's smears as "bullshit" gets major points in my eyes.

Among other problems, I just have a hard time seeing Bayh be tough enough to slam McCain or win his debate.

My one criticism of this whole Facebook thing is that it isn't inclusive enough. I'm not on Facebook, few people I know are on Facebook, so we have no chance to join this grassroots movement. I think starting a group on my.barackobama.com (ala "Get Fisa Right") would have had higher numbers and better results.


I only joined Facebook about 6-8 weeks ago and my (4.00 / 2)
young adult daughters thought I was crazy because, "Mom, we only know one other mother on Facebook who is around your age - who will Friend you?". I did it because of another volunteer  town Committee I serve on and we were doing outreach to people my daughters' ages.

When I mention to friends that I joined Facebook some don't even know what it is and their kids are on it!

I did join the 100,000 Strong Against Evan Bayh for VP yesterday and I'm glad I did. Mike Lux certainly expressed it better than I could. It just sends a dismal message IMO.

BTW, the 'only other mother' did 'Friend Me' as well as a few other people ( funny how Facebook keeps trying to say ...you may know these people...then sort of like a high school search showed up( I put high school and college on the profile) and I am struck that out of 434 people that I graduated from high school with 11 'matches' were found. This is definitely an networking site that is disproportionately geared to younger people. At this time at any rate.


[ Parent ]
I'm thinking of starting 'Greyguide' (0.00 / 0)
for those of us who feel slightly too, erm, mature for Facebook.

[ Parent ]
Hard to know ... (0.00 / 0)
My one criticism of this whole Facebook thing is that it isn't inclusive enough.

Well, any campaign that restricts itself to just one social network is going to limit inclusiveness.  On the other hand, my.barackobama.com is generally thought of as restricted to US citizens and people old enough to vote, so in some ways Facebook (or MySpace) is a lot more inclusive.  

I'm not on Facebook, few people I know are on Facebook, so we have no chance to join this grassroots movement.

Some people joined Facebook to be part of Get FISA Right ... don't get me wrong, it's an Orwellian, creepy, and panoptic environment, but it's certainly worth exploring.

I think starting a group on my.barackobama.com (ala "Get Fisa Right") would have had higher numbers and better results.

100,000 Strong grew quicker than Get FISA Right did, so I think it wasn't held back by Facebook.  Also, there are something like 50,000,000 potential members on Facebook, and only a couple of million on myBO; and the technology's more resilient.  And "protest" groups are among the most successful on Facebook -- they can grow to 1,000,000 people or more easily.  So it seems to me that it was a good choice.


[ Parent ]
Dear God (4.00 / 5)
"Take an economic populist like Sherrod Brown who can help you with working class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, even if he does make the CW pundits uncomfortable."

What is so frustrating to me is that in any sane world this would be such an obvious reason to pick Sherrod. But we live in bizzaro political world where up is down and sand quenches thirst.  


You don't mention .. (0.00 / 0)
his member of the CLI .. which in my mind .. is the worst thing he could have done ... He was one of four Democrats on the CLI(the other three were Lieberman, Bob Kerrey and Jim Hoffa, Jr.(Very weird!!))

Mike(or anyone one of the old heads here),
Can you fill me in on Birch Bayh's views on foreign policy.  I know all about the wonderful things he did re: domestic policy, but I really haven't seen what was written about him and his views on Vietnam and the like.  I just don't think Indiana is as conservative as people think.  Is it like the east coast?  No.  I think Progressive populism would work there.


Question about Biden (4.00 / 1)
Where does he stand on fair trade?

I know he's pretty pro-union but where is/was he on NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR and trade agreements for the future?


he voted (4.00 / 1)
Yes on NAFTA, No on CAFTA, no on Chile, and yes on PNTR with China.  I guess it is a mixed bag.

Check

http://www.ontheissues.org/200...

At AFL-CIO forum, last year, he said

Q: Would you scrap NAFTA or fix it?

A: A president's job is to create jobs, not to export jobs, and the idea that we are not willing to take the prime minister of Canada and the president of Mexico to the mat to make this agreement work is just a lack of presidential leadership. I would lead, I would do that, I would change it.




New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
mixed bag (4.00 / 1)
that was my take too. On progressive punch he seems ok. At least he got a 100% on general union rights. But on trade issues he was so-so. Definitely not a Sherrod Brown, but he does seem better than Kaine. Although it's impossible to compare since Kaine's a governor.

[ Parent ]
Agree on all (0.00 / 0)
Agree with your take on Bayh and Biden.  

Absolutely (4.00 / 3)
caution is not the answer in this campaign

That's why I like Sebelius-- her gender's a net-neutral factor (good overall, but minus disproportionate attention to HRC dead-ender squawking), and she doesn't look like a compensatory candidate (FP/military 'credibility,' electoral votes, insider-ness, etc.),  in any way, which appeals to those of us who prefer the complementary approach.  She just reinforces pretty much every theme and stated principle Obama's been presenting for this entire campaign, and has a degree of executive experience that has been more than sufficient for plenty of our presidents in the last half-century.



I'd gladly take Biden now (0.00 / 0)
I've always liked his seething "talk through his teeth" moments on foreign policy, with his vote for the Iraq war being a forgivable mistake. (ONLY because he's been such a powerful critic of the war since his mistake. I'm not asking for infallibility. I'm just asking for reparation and remorse.)

On most other social and economic issues he's at LEAST middle of the road, which is pretty good under the circumstances.

I won't hold my breath for Richardson/Clark/Brown/Schweitzer. But if Obama picks Bayh, it will confirm my worst fears.


What about keeping Democratic Senators IN the Senate? (0.00 / 0)
We're going to need every single vote there we possibly can. 

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

Biden is ok. (0.00 / 0)
Governor is a Democrat, the only Republican in the state can't run due to health problems, and Biden has been prepping his son to take the seat (gross, but it's a small state).  This is one of the only cases where taking a Senator doesn't hurt.

[ Parent ]
Good to know. (0.00 / 0)
Thanks.

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

[ Parent ]
Biden can Attack dog now, without the VP slot n/t (0.00 / 0)


I Wish You Luck (0.00 / 0)
Really, I do. And I'm not being snarky. But how well did it work out the last time there was a Facebook protest against Obama?

Not so well.


Nope (0.00 / 0)
But sticking with a strategy that's a proven failure seems to me to be, well, the Democratic Party Way.

[ Parent ]
At This Point (0.00 / 0)
At this point, now that Obama has shown us with FISA that he'll ditch his best supporters, his own promises, and any idea of social justice, I don't have any suggestions. He obviously doesn't care what we think.

So my suggestion is more global, and its one you've heard before: More And Better Democrats. Obama doesn't care what we think, so I'm more worried about electing people who have demonstrated that they do care.

I'm not gonna keep throwing time and money down the Obama well, hoping that this time a fairy comes out. He's chosen who his allies are, and his allies are big coal and the telcoms. I hope his pals take good care of him. I'll be taking care of my real friends.


[ Parent ]
Alternatively (0.00 / 0)
If you're stuck on the idea of lobbying Obama, raise some money and hire some lobbyists to hound him; balance them out with giant fundraisers. That strategy seems to work for the telcoms and big coal.

Or you could stick with what doesn't work and make another Facebook group and get laughed at again. It's up to you.


[ Parent ]
Great ideas (0.00 / 0)
don't work at first.  They also get laughed at.  Nothing could be better at ensuring that you have no influence than to only try anything once, and give up if it doesn't work, or avoid trying things for fear you'll be laughed at.


Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
Complicated story. (4.00 / 2)

The last time? Do you mean FISA?

The FISA battle was an uphill one all the way, and it was fought on a variety of fronts with a lot of different actors: there was the myBO group, calling campaigns orchestrated by ACLU and other groups, Firedoglake and Glenn Greenwald, etc etc.  We lost on telecom immunity, but we didn't lose as badly as expected - the final vote tally was higher than the original 15.  

 Losing doesn't mean those tactics didn't work -- it means it was an uphill battle. 

Should we evaluate what we did and how we can do better next time? Absolutely. Always.

 As to the Bayh 'reverse draft':  bloggers like Steve Clemons and Ari Melber started beating the drum against Bayh, but it didn't hit the national press until the Facebook group formed and started growing.  

Google "facebook bayh" and take a look at the results.  It's the Facebook hook that got this story into the New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times and NPR.

 



John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

[ Parent ]
Wasn't Al Gore a DLC Moderate (0.00 / 0)
while he was in the US Senate and during his 8 years as Clinton's VP. Gore became a hero to progressives in 2002- when he endorsed Howard Dean, Spoke out against the War.

An Obama-Biden ticket may look similar to the Dukakis-Bentsen ticket.

A VP debate between Biden and Romney will be like the Bentsen-Quayle debate- Can you guys imagine Joe Biden saying to Romney. Governor I served in the Senate when Ronald Reagan was President- Ronald Reagan was a man I admire, You Governor are no Ronald Reagan.  


yeah, and we know that one turned out for the Democrats... (4.00 / 1)
I still remember the first Wednesday in November hangover.

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008

[ Parent ]
Why p off the progessives? (4.00 / 2)
If Obama wants a centrist white guy on the ticket, fine, but why go with the one finalist that the progressive community universally has problems with?

Because he thinks he doesn't need us.

Doesn't want us.

Doesn't want to be associated with us.

FWIW, I voted for Obama in the primaries because I felt he had the greatest chance for transformative change.  I thought Hillary was much the safer bet, and probably would eke out a win over McCain.  But we'd still have red state/blue state.

I've felt that Obama is/was riskier - he has the potential to win big or lose badly and bring alot of the nation along if he won.  That's why I want to see someone like Sebelius, Brown - hey, let's go for it!

But Bayh?  Meh.  All that does is show that Indiana can produce airhead VP's for both parties (re:Quayle).

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008


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