At First Glance, Palin Is A Smart Choice

by: David Sirota

Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 17:06


I can't say I'm all that surprised by John McCain's selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) as his runningmate. At first glance - and this will be negated if bad scandals come out - the choice is a very smart one, so smart, in fact, that, as an Obama supporter, it scares me.

Here's four reasons why this is a pretty smart choice - and for progressives, I think its a good idea that we look at these factors as we head into the final stretch of the campaign:

David Sirota :: At First Glance, Palin Is A Smart Choice
1. Putting a woman on the ticket is McCain's best hope to peel off some disaffected Hillary Clinton supporters. I'm not saying it's going to work all that well, as I don't think most women simply vote for women, regardless of their positions on issues. But if McCain really does have a chance to win over Clinton supporters, picking Palin is as good a shot as any to try to do that.

2. Palin comes from an energy state, and specifically, an oil and gas state. With Democrats' pathetically (yet predictably) tepid behavior on the drilling issue, the GOP senses an opportunity to exploit it, and you can bet Palin will be making the drilling case, with first-person narratives and anecdotes.

3. It will be difficult - though not impossible - for the Obama campaign to make an experience argument against Palin. Even though Palin is probably the most inexperienced candidate for vice president in contemporary American history, the Republicans have spent months attacking Obama's supposed lack of experience. So when gnats like Rahm Emanuel issue silly, over-the-top press releases about Palin's career, they re-open an experience debate that John McCain probably wants to have with Obama.

4. As the Nation's Chris Hayes reports, Palin is a die-hard right-winger who could help McCain solidify the Republican base.

Again, all of these assets could be negated by things that come out about Palin's career and/or gaffes she makes on the campaign trail. I'm sure hoping that's what happens, and we'll need to really help examine and publicize the most odious parts of her record, as well as make the case that the experience of a 72-year-old candidate's VP choice is especially important. But we underestimate her - and the McCain operation - at our peril.

Finally, let's step back a moment, take off the partisan blinders, and celebrate. Palin's nomination all but guarantees that the United States will either have its first African American president or its first female vice-president. I desperately hope its the former, and not the latter - but the historic nature of either is something to be pretty happy about.

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At First Glance, Palin Is A Smart Choice | 103 comments
Foreign Policy (0.00 / 0)
Keep in mind, foreign policy is a blank slate with her. All she has to do is get up to date with McCain's stances (for today), make them her own, and recite in lockstep.

I don't think her completely lack of foreign policy experience is the loser for them that people think it is. She's there for O-I-L.

Easier said than done (4.00 / 7)
She has to do interviews on this stuff. She has to go into a debate with Biden. That stuff isn't easy even for veterans of this stuff. You can't just memorize names, you have to know all the dynamics and consequences.

I think Sirota is overlooking the major liabilities of this pick.

1. She opposes abortion even in the cases of rape or incest. I don't think Hillary fans in the NARAL and Emily's List groups will like this.

2. She supported Buchanan when he was a radical anti-semite. How will this play in Jewish communities?

3. Zero foreign policy experience. Will McCain still run "ready to lead?" ads against Obama?

I think this pick will turn out to be a disaster after the first week, unless she somehow turns into a MENSA genius on foreign and domestic policy. But clearly she wasn't picked for her brains, she was picked for her sex.

[ Parent ]
The scary part is.... (4.00 / 1)
....that even with no FP background, I'm not sure she'll be any worse than the guy who still doesn't know the difference between Sunni and Shia.
[ Parent ]
Disagree (0.00 / 0)
that the experience thing is in taters. That tangible meme is already out there. Polls show that is a concern with voters right fladem? So it's already a done deal that Obama has to deal with that problem.

So as Sirota points out, and as I pointed out today a few times here today, which people didn't want to touch with a ten foot poll, if Obama tries to make a play on Palins experience he is going to boomerang it right back to himself. Not a good idea given that in the case for the Dems it is thee presidential Candidate who is inexperienced and in the Repubs case it is only the VP. Who do people really vote for, again as I pointed out earlier? Yeah, not the VP.

So going Axlerod on Palin is poison for Obama. In fact McCain and the GOP would love that to happen.

How does the GOP do this? They always seem to out maneuver the Dems. Palin gives them a possible 'experience trap' if Obama is not careful. She can steal the Windfalls Profit issue as I explained above, and will help neutralize the Change Theme as McCain already said today.

Yeah dumb move on their part! And exactly how did Biden do the same for Obama? Right. He didn't.  

[ Parent ]
How to answer point 2. (4.00 / 1)
2. Palin comes from an energy state, and specifically, an oil and gas state. With Democrats' tepid behavior on the drilling issue, the GOP senses an opportunity to exploit it, and you can bet Palin will be making the drilling case, with first-person narratives and anecdotes.

Of course she's for more drilling! Her state's had a windfall profits tax for 30 years straight! So I assume she agrees we need to follow Senator Obama's lead and enact a national windfall profits tax so we can return some of those obscene revenues to the American people just as they do in her great state of Alaska.  

Her husband has a fishing company... (0.00 / 0)
...what's his stance on the Exxon Valdez fiasco? And is he for more drilling, and more tankers, in Alaska?
[ Parent ]
He works for BP (0.00 / 0)
so I'm sure he's in favor of drilling everywhere.
[ Parent ]
She's not just for more drilling, she's suing the US Gvmt (4.00 / 2)
for putting polar bears on the threatened species list! She not only kowtows to Big Oil, she doesn't believe in basic science -- also wants Creationism taught in public schools.

Between these loony stances and the Troopergate scandal, I would give even odds she ends up having to withdraw her name.

Howard Dean in 2016

[ Parent ]
Agrees? (0.00 / 0)
How about neutralizes the Windfalls Tax? If her and McCain go for that then Obama doesn't own it anymore and with Palin it is not a copy cat move because while Obama has been talking about it Palin has been doing it. She would own the issue by that standard.

Additionally I read today that the 'maverick' MCcain says that Palin in many ways, which I won't go into here ( you can google and read for yourselves), is going to help him CHANGE the way things are done in Washington because that is what Palin has done in her short tenure in Alaska. Yep they are going to neutralize 'Change' too. Sirota ought to make that #5 on his list.

So neutralize Windfall Profits and Change and there takes two of Obama's biggies.

I'm not a McCain fan. But I'm not an Obama fan either. But unlike some people I pay attention to what both sides are doing and don't paint it in a way it ain't. No spin. No denial. If the GOP is making a good move people ought to pay attention and take it seriously and not try to spin it away on a blog - which of course doesn't accomplish anything anyway.

[ Parent ]
Your attempts to turn chicken shit into chicken salad (4.00 / 3)
are admirable, but ultimately unconvincing. Trying to spin this as a masterstroke is absurd, this is what it is, a desperate pick. It was made with the hope that she'd peel off enough jaded Hillary supporters to make trouble, and that isn't likely to happen considering her reactionary ideology. It's still early in the game and McCain threw up a hail mary.  

She is a hard-right loon with competence issues and ethics problems. If you believe anyone is going to look upon this woman, who will only be a coronary away from the presidency, with charity and confidence, you are sadly mistaken. Joe Biden will embarrass this woman when they debate, not just on foreign policy, but on just about every other issue. Her tenure as a mayor is a textbook lesson in administrative incompetence that can be easily exploited.

If her status as governor of an oil-producing state is supposed to give her cred on the energy issue, I fail to see how. So what if she embraces a windfall profits tax? She's a drill first, drill last, drill here, there and everywhere type that has no vision of how we move forward on the energy issue. When people talk about drilling, they're not much concerned with windfall profits, they're concerned with the ecological damage that it causes, and Alaska has been a poster child for oil spills. Not just the Exxon Valdez, but the myriad of smaller spills that plague the pipeline and the oil terminals annually. The coastal drilling issue potentially effects only five states in practice--Virginia, North and South Carolina, Georgia and Florida. It's the specter of oil slicks ruining a multi-billion dollar tourism trade in those states that is potent, and on that issue, Sarah Palin and the state of Alaska can hardly be seen as beacons. If I'm the Sierra Club I'm licking my chops at the prospect of trashing Sarah Palin. This is a woman that just made a Herculean effort to continue to allow rich assholes to shot wolves from helicopters.  

This woman essentially neutralizes any further exploitation of the experience meme against Obama. The fact that it's already been exploited means nothing in a campaign where memories are short, and few have been paying attention thus far. It was one of the few issues that McCain had in his quiver that had any traction.  

[ Parent ]
Point two (4.00 / 4)
A sleeper issue with Palin:

Alaska is the biggest recipient of pork spending. She supported the bridge to no where. That doesn't really jive with the mavericky eliminate pork stances of mc cain.

No need for earmarks... (4.00 / 6)
...when the federal government is subsidizing your state.

McCain / Palin
Arizona $1.30 / Alaska $1.87

Obama / Biden
Illinois $0.73 / Deleware $0.79

http://www.taxfoundation.org/b...

John McCain

[ Parent ]
Thoughts in opposition. (not saying they're correct). (4.00 / 1)
It seems very patronizing to conclude that Clinton supporters are so blinded by gender issues that they'll vote for a woman no matter what her political stances are. But the GOP doesn't know shit about anybody but old white guys so that's certainly what they're thinking. However, a pro-choice female VP would have been a better selection in that regards. Not that Rove would allow that.

Her hubby works for BP so anything she says that will get big oil more money will simply look like someone seeking personal gain.

The issue isn't Palin's experience. It's that any attack from McCain about Obama's experience is disingenuous and transparently so at this point.

If she's outed as a hard-core right winger moderates will be repelled.  

Hubby (4.00 / 3)
is just a dude at BP. He's pretty low-level. Just a guy making a living. Attacking him would be tantamount to attacking someone that works at a GM plant. He's union, too.
[ Parent ]
Nice work if you can get it (4.00 / 1)
He was also a judge in the 2008 Miss Alaska beauty pageant. Got to keep those family traditions alive, you know.
[ Parent ]
Dunno (4.00 / 1)
He makes over 100K a year so I don't know how low level that is.  
[ Parent ]
He works in the field (0.00 / 0)
That's low level. The youngsters here don't know that the oil fields and pipelines have been driving people from all over the country to Alaska for decades because the pay is good. Hard work, away from home, most often in isolated locations. but where else can a blue collar guy or gal make 100K?
[ Parent ]
Can you get me one of those (4.00 / 2)
field level $100 grand jobs? Because my husband and I put together don't make that kind of money.

Seriously, when are you going to get tired of defending Palin and the genius McCain who hired her? Are they still giving out "points" or whatever for doing that?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
It seems very patronizing to conclude that Clinton supporters are so blinded by gender issues that they'll vote for a woman no matter what her political stances are.

I would like to hope so, yes. But then I read things like this blog post-- what to make of that?

[ Parent ]
I feel dirty after clicking that (0.00 / 0)

  There are low-information voters, and there are low-information voters who wallow, revel, and roll in their self-inflicted ignorance like pigs in mud.

 That blogger is the latter.

 If people like those hold the key to the future of our country, then I better get my passport renewed by November.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
wow...not sure i agree (0.00 / 0)
Especially when you have video of Palin asking what the VP does.  Sure McCain gives the RWs something to like about his ticket but how many people will be scared off by small town mayor turned VP?  Moreover, how does she appeal to Hillary voters?  How does she appeal to Independents?  The commercials right themselves.  A party with problems related to corruption has a VP candidate with corruption problems.
Do NOT go there! (0.00 / 0)
Jokes about what the VP does have been made for as long as I can remember.  By sitting VP's.  To make a target of that simply reveals ignorance.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...
[ Parent ]
She said it in a serious enough manner (0.00 / 0)
And it's clear that she's not that bright to begin with. It could be very effective:

VO: And now, Sarah Palin, Republican VP candidate and former competitor in the Miss Alaska swimsuit competiton describes her future job!

PALIN: First, someone will have to tell me what the Vice President actually does.

FX: [Boing!]

VO: It's written in the United States Constitution, Sarah!

etc.

I wonder if there's video of Palin's Miss Alaska competition? That could be interesting.

[ Parent ]
you are misrepresenting what she said (0.00 / 0)
Today some credible Obama supporters debunked and disagreed wit your mischaracterization.
[ Parent ]
I have come to the conclusion (4.00 / 13)
that it is fact a moronic choice.

Let's count the number of frames he has destroyed:
1.  He will put the country first
No - he has selected someone with 20 months experience as the Governor of one of the least populated states in the country.  Politics came before country.
2.  Experience matters
The number 1 concern people have about Barak Obama is lack of experience.  That frame now lies in tatters.
3.  He is a maverick
No, he will do anything to get elected.  One minute he goes on and on about experience, and the next he does something completely opposite.

Whatever her strengths are, they are nothing compared to what has been lost.

In the morning I thought this was a great choice.

Now I think it is a terrible.

Number 4 negates (4.00 / 2)
number 1. Hillary's die hard supporters are still pissed, but they aren't going to support an anti-choice ticket.

Rock the Boat
It's not "Hillary supporters" who might be swayed -- (4.00 / 3)
they've already decided. They are for the Democratic Party and for Obama. Read this if you need to get up to speed:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...

The only ones who will be impressed by this are the Obama haters, and they were never going to vote for him, anyway.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I suppose that's the only real marginal benefit McCain could get (0.00 / 0)
Instead of what should be Obama supporters (but are Obama haters) staying home, maybe this will give them a reason to go one extra step (for some of them) and vote for McCain.

[ Parent ]
And I can't help but think (0.00 / 0)
they will be more than offset by the members of the GOP base who simply will not be able to pull the lever for a woman president, even indirectly. Especially an uppity one who abandons her crippled child to go gallavanting around the country on the campaign trial.

I think McCain has wedged himself but good with this one.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I hope so (0.00 / 0)
and I think so. Although there's the nagging Democratic worry in me at times. I'll go cure that by volunteering tomorrow.
[ Parent ]
Puhleeze (4.00 / 7)
1.  You know perfectly well that Obama will not lose notable support from women among those who were considering him in the first place.  Maybe some independents will go her way, but no one who cares about issues Hillary cared about will.  
2.  I agree that she adds a different element on the energy issue, coming from an oil state.  But among other things, she supported a windfall tax like Obama supports.
3.  Most importantly, Obama does not need to make the experience argument; the point is that McCain is now deprived of his raison d'etre against Obama.  The experience argument is no longer there for anyone.
4.  Who cares if the GOP-base is solidified? That just means that the moderates will be turned off.
on 3 (4.00 / 1)
exactly. its not Obama's loss. VPs are not generally swing votes, therefore its more damaging to McCain that he can't make a clean attack on Obama, than it is to Obama that he can't attack his VP.

She's milktoast, best thing to do is stick to policies and character and let her try to be credible.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
#3 is very significant (4.00 / 4)
To unpack this some more:

Why does the Obama campaign need to attack Palin's lack of experience?  No campaign has any particular need to attack the other ticket's VP in any direct way.  

The "experience" landscape of this election is that the McCain campaign has been massively, irreplaceably relying on attacking Obama's lack of experience.  Now, does making a VP choice with even less experience than Obama completely destroy that angle for McCain?  I'm not so sure it does, but it's obviously going to make it a lot thornier.  As much as the media still likes McCain, I don't think they're going to let him get away completely scott-free when the contradiction is this glaringly obvious.

[ Parent ]
i'd like to think you're right (0.00 / 0)
Maybe all they have to say is Palin is a clone of McCain on the issues. And McCain is a clone of Bush. So Palin is a clone of a clone ... a 2nd generation xerox, if you will.
[ Parent ]
The "inexperienced" card (0.00 / 0)
was always secondary to the he's-a-cultural-liberal card--the tactic that worked for Hillary.
[ Parent ]
and McCain is 72 years old (4.00 / 1)
McCain's age, along with the fact that she's not qualified to be president, and with Troopergate thrown in, makes this a horrible pick for McCain.

The reality is McCain had no GOOD choices. He took the least worst choice, in his eyes. Others in the GOP thought Romney was the least worst, because it gave him a shot at Michigan, Colorado and Florida. This pick just shows how thin the Republican ranks are right now.


[ Parent ]
Meaningless symbolism (4.00 / 5)
David, given the disaster a McCain presidency would certainly mean -- to the U.S. and the world -- the Supreme Court appointments, the total empowerment of Big Oil and Big Insurance, a greater income gap, growing poverty, deteriorating infrastructure, practical enforced euthanasia by denial of health care -- I could go on and on --

My point is, how could it possibly make one bit of difference that the second-in-charge at the end of America is a woman?

Tomb Raider (0.00 / 0)
they re-open an experience debate that John McCain probably wants to have with Obama.

I agree with that point, David. Instead of calling Palin inexperienced the Obama campaign should be saying she has the wrong kind of experience. Until two years ago she was the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, pop. 8,500. She has great experience  running the school bus fleet and repairing cracked sewer pipes.

Palin is an action gal like Lara Croft the Tomb Raider. Maybe America will have a national love affair with her, like Britain did with Diana.

I don't think (4.00 / 1)
they need to say much at all. Those points will be brought up by the media and at the debates by the moderators. Maybe have some surrogates say it. Obama and Biden certainly don't need to. Start every single line with something positive about her (much as they do with McCain's navy service, but even more-so) but end with the question about heart-beat away from presidency.

Yes it has to be subtle, but it can be done. And once it's out there, she'll be defined and there won't be anything they can do to take that doubt away.  

[ Parent ]
No need to attack her (4.00 / 2)
What McCain's choice does is to put the lie to the attacks he's been making for months, that Obama's relative lack of "experience" means he isn't qualified to be president and that this means our country will be at risk.  In doing so, it destroys his main line of attack so far.

How can he POSSIBLY get away with these kinds of attacks now without blatantly appearing to be dishonest and hypocritical, and "willing to put the country at risk to win an election" (or just too crazy or clueless to be reasonably consistent).  All it takes is a few journalists to start asking the obvious "consistency" question.  And its hard to believe that this won't happen, the current state of journalism notwithstanding.

There's no need to criticize Palin, only to point out McCain's glaring inconsistency gently but firmly every time McCain attacks Obama as being inexperienced and unfit to protect Americans:

The political reality now is that any McCain attack on Obama's "inexperience" and "unreadiness to lead" automatically opens wide the door to the conclusion that McCain is dishonest, hyprocritical, crazy and/or clueless.  The door will be so wide open, it won't take much pushing for most people to walk through it.

Now, if McCain wants to shift gears and fight the battle of who can bring the change 80% of Americans believe we need, then I think Obama can handle that debate pretty well.

Given Palin's background, I wouldn't be surprised to see McCain try to push a "Drill USA" agenda for energy independence.  That might sound nice as a slogan, but I think Obama and Biden can deal with it effectively.  And, personally, I'd be happy to see energy issues get more attention in the debate.  And as this week's convention reminded me, we've got some pretty smart and compelling leaders that can help Obama on that front (e.g., Gore, the Clintons)

I also find it very hard to believe that any significant percentage of real Clinton supporters would vote for McCain because an anti-choice woman is on the ballot.

[ Parent ]
I wonder what the top military brass are thinking right now (4.00 / 1)
Is Sarah Palin ready to be Commander in Chief? Ready to assume control of the US military in the event of an emergency?

Does she have the strategic international knowledge that a president needs to make wartime decisions? To act on guidance from the Joint Chiefs? We are at war after all.

Is she skilled in the international diplomacy? Ready to go head to head with Russia, China, India, Europe leaders? Negotiate treaties and agreements? I think the U.S. still does that kind of thing ... or maybe not anymore.

This hockey mom from Wasilla is commander of the Alaskan National Guard, she reminded us today. Does that impress the Pentagon?

[ Parent ]
Please (4.00 / 2)
do you have to use phrases like "hockey mom?"

I thought we'd been through this. Attack her for being a rightwing nutjob and corrupt. Attack her for being in over her head. These are fair and aboveboard approaches.

But don't attack her for being a woman.



Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
hockey mom (0.00 / 0)
That's how Palin describes herself.
[ Parent ]
And rappers call themselves (0.00 / 0)
N*****s. That doesn't make it okay for you to do it.

Seriously, if you can't follow this stuff, if you don't understand why calling her husband "the Eskimo First Gentleman" like you did on another thread, and you don't understand why progressives cannot use "hockey mom" as an insult, then do us all a favor and sit this one out.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Wise up (0.00 / 0)
Using Palin's own words against her is a good and effective strategy. She claims to be a feminist but describes herself as a hockey mom. She describes her husband as the First Gentleman on her own governor's website. She embodies the Republican schizophrenia on issues, as Chris Bowers just said in the headline post, and especially on cultural issues.

You can talk about this in neutral perfectly inoffensive language or you can cut to the chase. If Palin is proud to call herself a hockey mom we should have no hesitation to put that in the spotlight.

[ Parent ]
Like I said, just sit this one out (0.00 / 0)
if you don't understand it.

If the only way you know how to fight is with racist, sexist language (spare me the lame "but they do it too" crap) then you are going to do far more harm than good.

Unless that was your intention all along?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Guess we just disagree n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
You're wrong (0.00 / 0)
This kind of PC stuff is what has lost Democrats elections for going on three decades.

If you want to win, you take your opponent's strength and use it against him, or her. Sarah Palin thinks calling herself "hockey mom" is a winning proposition.  She does it, not out of virtue and sincerity, but because SHE wants to win.  When you understand what that last sentence means, then you will understand why it is absolutely fair game to use it against her.

[ Parent ]
Bullshit (4.00 / 1)
This kind of sexist stuff is what damn near cost Obama the nomination.

Again, if you don't understand why in-groups can use certain words, like n***** or hockey mom, that out-groups cannot use, do us all a favor and stay out of this one.

Making fun of Palin for being a woman is not a winning approach.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Wow. (0.00 / 0)
You really do have only one way of thinking, don't you?

What I said couldn't be any LESS sexist because it says that a woman, or at least this woman, is equally Macchiavellian as any man.  That's as gender-neutral as it gets.

You're missing the point, and it actually seems deliberate.

[ Parent ]
people vote for president not vice president (4.00 / 2)
People don't vote based on vice presidential candidates. People don't even vote based on presidential candidates coming from their state (see: Al Gore in 2000). This doesn't even necessarily lock up Alaska for McCain let alone having any impact at all nationally. We need to get rid of the office of vice president so we don't have to go through this absurd and meaningless "who is the vp pick?" ritual every 4 years.
... (4.00 / 3)
For the most part I agree with you, but a 72 year old cancer survivor makes talk of his second in command important again.

Amazingly I think McCain has made his age an ok topic of discussion with this and blunted his experience meme at the same time.

Add that to Palin's hard right social stances (anti ANY kind of abortion, non-committal at best stance on creationism, etc) I think McCain has done a lot more damage to his campaign than good.

It brings the VP discussion very front and center.

[ Parent ]
They may not vote on VPs, (4.00 / 1)
but they do vote on what the choice shows about the one who named her.

Senator, do you agree with the person you put a heartbeat away that the universe is 6000 years old? Do you now join her in opposing even abortions that are needed to save the mother's life? Do you think it's OK if polar bears and America's only other arctic wildlife goes extinct, as long as we get a few more years worth of oil out of it? Sir, you would be the oldest president in the history of our country: do you believe that Governor Palin is fit to become the commander in chief should the worst happen? Have you then changed your mind about Senator Obama's lack of experience?

[ Parent ]
They do not. (0.00 / 0)
Consider Dan Quayle.

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
Different election. (4.00 / 1)
McCain's biggest negative is his age. There was no special reason to think Quayle had much chance of getting to the Oval Office. After Bush, Americans are used to taking comfort from the belief that he can always be propped up by a VP.

Plus, Quayle may have been as dumb as portrayed, but his stated beliefs were about like Bush's. A creationist anti-abortion anti-gay absolutist sets up a pretty jarring dissonance with the guy what brung her -- at least the way he has presented himself.

Plus, in the Quayle election, as I recall, the Dems missed their chance to tar Bush with him and just settled for poking at his stupidness, which not everybody saw. The issue here is not dumbness, it's wingnuttery so extreme it makes Huckabee look like a commie. So the question to McCain becomes, If you don't like theocrat extremists, how come you want to put one a heartbeat away from the White House? Do you care about this country at all?

[ Parent ]
Nobody (4.00 / 8)
I think Palin is kind of a nobody lightweight. She should be treated as such. Biden shouldn't address her, and should spend his time hammering McCain.  
Key words in your post, David... (4.00 / 1)
...are 'At first glance'.

When you think about it a little more, it becomes a joke.

bullet, meet foot (4.00 / 3)
There are a lot of "gut" voters out there who tend to go with what's safe to them, and McCain just told them to stay home. Thinking Republicans will embrace her, but those who fear change, fear foreigners, and fear women in power and want to go with the reassuring white guy will just toss up their hands. It's a turnout killer.
Nice publicity-grabber for Sirota (1.60 / 5)
This is the perfect comment to compel Fake News to ask Sirota to come on the show: I can write the dialog ahead of time:

"Liberal blogger David Sirota agrees that John McCain's VP pick is brilliant, and may steel angry Clinton supporters away from Obama! David, tell us why this is such a brilliant pick."

David, if you go on TV with this crap, I'll lose ALL respect for you.

 

what part of (4.00 / 1)
"at first glance" don't you understand?

What part of

we'll need to really help examine and publicize the most odious parts of her record, as well as make the case that the experience of a 72-year-old candidate's VP choice is especially important.

don't you understand???

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers

[ Parent ]
it's a legitimate point (4.00 / 1)
Are you saying that you'd approve of him going on TV with this right-wing spin, or that you don't think he's doing it to get publicity? Which do you object to?

If it's the latter, then David can respond himself. In fact, I would very much like him to respond.

Given Sirota's own statements (see below), it's obviously a legitimate point:

Just to answer some commenters questions from my last post: I appear on Fox News whenever Fox News asks me to appear, as I do with all media...

That said, I'm not going to be a partisan shill, simply saying "Obama Good, McCain Bad" all day like a parrot. I'm going to give my honest assessment from a progressive perspective - because in this world you really only have two things: 1) Your family and 2) Your credibility. And my view is that progressive voices should be in all media and express a progressive message in all media - whether it helps or hurts Democrats, whether it helps or hurts Republicans. It's not about the party or the candidate - its about the movement and the ideology.

I would argue that, in this case, Sirota's spin isn't  a "progressive message". A woman with two months experience as governor just a heartbeat away from the presidency clearly isn't the best choice for a 72-year-old candidate. And that's not even taking into account Palin's troopergate.

Sirota can spin this any way he wants, and it looks like he's spinning it like a publicity hog.  

By the way, I find the troll-rating rather ironic too, for obvious reasons.  

[ Parent ]
OK (0.00 / 0)
By the way, right off the top I should acknowledge that I post on My Left Nutmeg as joesaho, so you and I have had this discussion before. I wanted to follow up on that thread but with the convention and everything it escaped my attention. Also I initally troll rated you here but about a minute later changed my mind and reverted to no rating. OK.

Are you saying that you'd approve of him going on TV with this right-wing spin, or that you don't think he's doing it to get publicity?

I'm saying what Sirota says is not right-wing spin.

You are right that:

A woman with two months experience as governor just a heartbeat away from the presidency clearly isn't the best choice for a 72-year-old candidate.

And I think that Sirota agrees with you.

we'll need to really help examine and publicize the most odious parts of her record, as well as make the case that the experience of a 72-year-old candidate's VP choice is especially important.

You and Sirtoa both agree that Palin is a questionable choice from a practical standpoint. This is a case that can be made on a partisan basis, or a nonpartisan basis (i.e., to independents). So what exactly is your issue with what Sirota wrote?

I bet you don't like the fact that David is just suggesting that Palin might actually make sense from a purely strategic point of view, and that in doing so he is going against the progressive blogosphere's echo chamber today (I would include myself in that echo chamber by the way). Palin makes no sense for progressives - we can agree on that. And you and I and David and everyone else can make that case to progressives, I have no problem with that.

But if we want Obama to win, then David is saying we shouldn't be surprised if, as a hypothetical example, Obama attacks Palin's experience and then we wake up and find those attacks hurt Obama as well:

Even though Palin is probably the most inexperienced candidate for vice president in contemporary American history, the Republicans have spent months attacking Obama's supposed lack of experience. So when gnats like Rahm Emanuel issue silly, over-the-top press releases about Palin's career, they re-open an experience debate that John McCain probably wants to have with Obama.

Now I guess when you read that you think David is making a right-wing talking point. Or that McCain's staff might read David's diary and all of a sudden gain new strategic insight (I have to chuckle at that). When I read that I think he's making an honest and realistic read of the strategic implications of such a move. That's not concern trolling - that's legitimate concern.

Maybe you have a different point of view. Maybe you think all progressives should go on TV and parrot only the DNC-approved talking points, and that when intelligent people flip the channel and see that that doesn't quite match up with reality, they think we're a bunch of losers. Maybe it pisses you off when a progressive acknowledges the fact that if McCain wins we'd have our first female VP (actually that does irk me a little bit to be honest). Maybe whenever somebody criticizes Obama's policies from the left, like say, FISA or nuclear plants, that means they would rather see Obama lose, and therefore must be told to go away or STFU.

I don't come to that conclusion.

What irks me is that any time a progressive leader goes out and criticizes someone from the left, or as in this case makes a valid point that doesn't jibe with the partisan chorus, other progressives conclude that the first guy must be either a concern troll or a double agent working for Karl Rove.

Finally I'd add this:

I am reminded every single day that I am not a perfect man. I will not be a perfect President. But I can promise you this - I will always tell you what I think and where I stand. I will be honest with you about the challenges we face. I will listen to you when we disagree. And most importantly, I will open the doors of government and ask you to be involved in your own democracy again.

That's Obama in New Hampshire last year. He's telling progressives to organize and pressure him as he's running for office and when he's president. So after Obama is elected, and people like David and Rick MacArthur and Elizabeth Warren and Chris and Matt and Kos criticize the Obama administration's policies with a progressive voice, will you join them or will you tell them to go away?

I just think it's a question of do we want knee-jerk partisanship, where anyone who points out our candidate has no clothes (or maybe even has some pretty nice clothes, just with a few holes in them) must be an enemy, or do we want 1) progressive criticism even when it goes against our candidate 2) realistic analysis even when it contradicts what we think.

I vote for the second.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers

[ Parent ]
Maybe I was w-w-wrong (4.00 / 2)
 Yes, it is possible that the GOP wants Dems to attack her lack of experience... so they can try to make a similar point about Obama, even though Obama's foreign policy experience, legislative experience both in Washington and Illinois, his intellect, judgment, etc., overshadow hers.

The GOP will want to frame this as her 2 years as governor vs. Obama's 2 years in the Senate.

David makes a good point that talking about her inexperience may not be the best move. It will be interesting to see how team Obama handles it. Her inexperience will certainly be obvious to anyone; maybe let it speak for itself.

The tone of that first comment of mine may have been out of line. David's points were all were legitimate; I just hate to see our guys go on TV and repeat GOP talking points. Implying that Dems can't make the "experience" argument does imply that Palin's and Obama's experience is equal, which it isn't.  Dems just need to find some clear ways to bring that out.

[ Parent ]
OK (0.00 / 0)
I wish I'd seen this comment before I spent 45 minutes composing my response above (which is long enough to be a long diary!)

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
These "concern" posts are postively daft (4.00 / 9)
This VP selection will go down as the most asinine political move in modern political history.

Palin has no experience in national (let alone international) politics whatsoever.  She is reported to be somewhat dim-witted.  She is so ideologically right-wing that she wants to bring the teaching of creationism back into public schools.  She opposes the listing of cute little polar bears as an endangered species.  She wants to deny women the right to reproductive choice, even in cases of rape and incest.  She is a rapid supporter of the most unpopular President in modern polling history.  She is currently the focus of an abuse-of-power scandal in her home state.  She is a poster-girl for the NRA and opposes gun control in any form (remember, the vast majority of women favor gun control).   Etc, etc.

This pick is a disaster for Republicans.  Why do we have to have "concern" commentaries like this when they are clearly unwarranted.      

And she has a Down Syndrome Child! (4.00 / 2)
I have already lost count in how many times I've heard that Palin has a Down Syndrome child.  It has even been offered to explain away questions about her lack of experience, her lack of foreign policy experience, and whether she is prepared to lead this country.

Down Syndrome is the new POW.

Oh, and have you heard that she eats mooseburgers?!  What a resume.

It's a good experience for a McCain running mate (4.00 / 1)
Since she would have to serve as a nanny to John McCain, a man who is the intellectual inferior of George W. Bush.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
[ Parent ]
Her taste for extreme food (0.00 / 0)
I heard she eats polar bear burgers. They're very tasty when they're an endangered species.
[ Parent ]
The Alaska Permanent Fund (4.00 / 4)
I think Dems should include provisions that dictate the percentage of any revenue that comes from oil leases and a mechanism to invest any proceeds into something that has long term benefit (like green infrastructure). Something like the Alaska Permanent Fund.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

One internal disconnect among progressives is the 'oil = bad' construction. Nobody thinks 'Norway = bad' and many progressives think 'Norway = great place to live' but much of Norway's wonderful social safety net comes from oil wealth.

Norway owns 81% of the state oil company. The US sells leases on it's oil and collects royalties from big oil concerns. There are at least two middlemen in the US type of oil exploration whereas Norway's oil wealth goes almost straight into it's own treasury.

I believe oil drilling polls so well because Americans are under the misperception that US oil drilling is like Norway and not a giant giveaway to the private oil companies.

If the US used it's oil & gas resources like Norway then liberals would be huge oil drilling fans.

John McCain

Meaningless (0.00 / 0)
She polishes McCain's conservative image as much as Biden polishes Obama's experience image, which is not much in either case.

She's the VP selection. She and Biden get no coverage after the conventions except in local news in the cities and towns they visit and even then it is a post script on the late news. They get one debate where the outcome means shite. "You are no Jack Kennedy" line is the greatest VP knockout in history and Dukakis/Bentsen still lost.

Too much weight is granted to her today and the week to come during the (yawn) RNC. Let her pick today and convention next week fade and she will just be a meaningless name under McCain's on a paper sign on the side of the road.

Laugh hard. Its a long ways to the bank.  

debates (4.00 / 2)
The VP debate WILL be effective if Biden trains his fire on McCain and not Palin.
[ Parent ]
Exactly (0.00 / 0)
Well said. A simple strategy but yet effective.
[ Parent ]
I think it's a dumb choice (4.00 / 4)
Lacking supporting statistics, I am baffled by the apparent rationale of McCain's choice, namely that Palin would help McCain carry women voters in general and Hillary supporters in particular.

Since when have large numbers of right wing voters been clamoring for a female candidate for VP, or president, for that matter?

And how many Hillary supporters would cross party lines to endorse a clearly unqualified woman, as Palin clearly is for the VP spot?

And how many women in general think it a grand idea for a woman with five children, including an infant with special needs, to be ditching her mothering responsibilities in favor of a bid for higher office?

As for the argument that Palin is a "die-hard right-winger who could help McCain solidify the Republican base", it makes out members of "the base" to be political and religious automatons who reflexively vote for candidates who inflame the culture war passions of the past.

My reading of the polls on their current positions show many if not most of them to be more discerning, especially on watershed issues such as global warming.

All in all, my initial reaction is that McCain's VP pick of Palin puts him high up on the list of our most notorious shoot-yourself-in-the-foot politicians.  

What about age? (4.00 / 3)
We have all seen the running commentary (direct or indirect) on McCain's age.  I think that this pick actually really hurts McCain on this point.  If he had picked a solid VP choice from a policy standpoint (in the Biden model), then age would have, to a degree, been off the table because there would be confidence in the VP being able to take over.  Here, though, I think it actually reinforces one of McCain's big risks.  Can America have confidence in the ticket if he cannot serve?  The answer is undeniably "no".  

So, rather than balancing the ticket and deflecting criticism, this pick not only takes away McCain's biggest argument against Obama (his level of experience) it also reinforces the potential biggest risk in McCain.

Something to be happy about? (4.00 / 6)
A Vice President who would take women's rights back decades?

I don't think so. I don't care what her gender is. She is not someone, anyone who believes in women's rights, should be happy about if she were to win.  

It makes as much sense (4.00 / 4)
as being happy about Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court.

I think, like Thomas, it just exposes how deeply cynical the Republicans are about diversity and multiculturalism. They will never see those things as socially desirable goals, only as games to play with people.

But I think they have gone too far with this one. It's going to bite them in the ass.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Glad someone isn't poo-pooing this decision (0.00 / 0)
because it was a very smart one 0 and a new strategy is needed.

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



happy? (0.00 / 0)
Why the hell would I be happy with this Phyllis-Schlafly-throwback as Vice President?  Because she has ovaries? As for your No. 3 reason to worry, isn't the reverse true?  How the hell does the Old Man knock Obama on experience when he picks this person?  Geez, David ... get a grip.  
How do you attack her (0.00 / 0)
Palin's unfitness to be VP is obvious to anyone who looks at the issue objectively.   Of course, many people do not look at these issues objectively.  

The challenge is how do you attack a mother of 5 including an infant who has Down Syndrome without looking mean.     It can be done, but the Obama campaign will have to be careful.      

You don't attack her as a mother (4.00 / 3)
you attack her as a politician. She is a wingnut and unqualified to be president, and that's all that matters.

Did Biden's motherless children disqualify him from serving in the Senate? Did his opponents ever hold back on him because of them?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
You don't attack her at all (0.00 / 0)
Only point out her deficiencies as offense/defense to the McCain attacks. It's a distraction. Keep the focus on McCain. You don't see the Repubs attacking Biden do you?
[ Parent ]
One more thought on winger reaction (4.00 / 1)
it seems to me that among the extreme, no-nothing religious right, there is a significant group who would say that a woman with a young baby at home should be taking care of her child and not out on the campaign trail.  In fact, if we had a Dem nominee of similar age with a young baby at home that would already be a major part of the story.  But will that not turn off some of the nutcases on this nomination?
Oh it will. (4.00 / 2)
But that doesn't mean we should be the ones to raise those points.

Trust me, those kinds of people will connect those dots quite nicely by themselves.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Palin selection legitimizes (0.00 / 0)
questions about McCain's health; Dems need to bring this up in a way that is both respectful and dogged
The Experience Argument (0.00 / 0)
I agree that it will be difficult for Obama to make an experience argument against Palin.

But there isn't any reason for Obama to do so.  It isn't a campaign theme.

Obama can use Palin to deflect attacks on his experience.  That's an entirely different dynamic.

This isn't the sort of thing that Obama needs to do himself.

If McCain attacks Obama's thin resume, then Biden, and/or a dozen other surrogates say "McCain is an old man putting a new governor a heartbeat away from the Presidency - it's absurd for him to attack someone else's experience."  At the same time Obama goes out and pumps up his pathetic resume as if it isn't an issue.  This may not eliminate the experience issue, but it gives Obama surrogates a quick, easy, and consistent answer to the complaint that makes McCain look foolish and hypocritical.  McCain lost ground on the experience argument, and it is a central theme for him.

Palin neutralizes the issue (0.00 / 0)
Neither side will be able to effectively attack the other on the experience issue. I kind of think McCain thought picking a woman and going the maverick route would outweigh giving up the experience issue.... though I wouldn't put it past Republicans to think they can get away with hypocrisy, especially with their base (and McCain's base is the media).

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
Are you guys all stupid, or what? (0.00 / 0)
Barack Obama is brilliant! He knows more about every topic than John McCain ever will. John McCain is demonstrably stupid - 894 out of 899 means you're stupid. Sarah Palin is not even in the fricking game!
[ Parent ]
Couldn't agree more (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Lots of conservatives wont vote for a woman (0.00 / 0)
Palin is a fire breathing conservative which will turn off moderates.  

The moderates who are like "No no McCain is just lying to get into office" wont be able to wave away Palin

Palin is a woman which will hurt her in the conservative base.  

Conservatives who argue that women shouldn't even be allowed to wear pants probably aren't going to vote for McCain now.

Not to mention the inexperience argument as well.

On a personal note McCain has never seemed to particularly like women so we will see how that plays out.

The Hillary PUMAs in my opinion probably wont be able to stand her pro life stances.  They wont like her.

Point being is that with McCain's advanced age Palin could easily take the presidency.  McCain has an image as an independent maverick and Palin's image will be that of a corrupt right wing fundy in a democratic year.  

She will also define McCain's true feelings on the subjects as she will be the one he thinks can best replace him.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com

Rosy Ruiz Boston Marathon Hoax (4.00 / 3)
Finally, let's step back a moment, take off the partisan blinders, and celebrate. Palin's nomination all but guarantees that the United States will either have its first African American president or its first female vice-president. I desperately hope its the former, and not the latter - but the historic nature of either is something to be pretty happy about.--David Sirota

I disagree. Having someone as unqualified as Palin take the historic title of first woman VP would make a mockery of the accomplishment. It would be similar to when Rosy Ruiz, in 1980 Boston Marathon, jumped in from the rope-line into the last half mile or so of the route after haven taken the subway train for most of the 26.2 mile distance. She crossed the finish line and was initially declared the female winner. She was later found out and the real winner was awarded, but not before the real winner's hard training and accomplishment had been all but lost in the fog of the hoax.
 

Perfect metaphor! (0.00 / 0)
I love it.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
The woman is VERY dangerous if we take the bait (4.00 / 1)
She's dangerous because she triggers our sexism.  We start making ignorant bimbo comments, and the bear trap clamps shut on our necks.

The ha-ha-ha about her VP remarks are a perfect example.  "What the VP does" is a very old joke generally made by sitting VP's.  Mocking that reveals ignorance (Kos and AmericaBlog fall for this).

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

Res Ipsa Loquitur (0.00 / 0)
No one has to make the experience argument: 1) She looks like McCain's daughter; 2. She has been a governor of a small (population) State for less than two years; 3) Her only other relevant experience is as a mayor of an 8,000 person village.



John McCain doesn't care about Vets.


Experience (4.00 / 3)
David, I disagree with you about being able to challenge her on experience. Palin is at an unprecedented level of inexperience for any national candidate and questioning her readiness to be president is not only fair, it's essential for people who care about this country. And yes, I know that sounds melodramatic but I can't imagine how else to put it.

She reportedly has not even thought about Iraq much, never mind formulating actual, you know, positions and stuff. A politician who aspired to office who had no political experience would at least spend a few years studying foriegn affairs, and Obama has been a member of the Senate and is knowledgable and prepared to deal with foreign affairs exponentially better than Palin. I hesitate to even put them in the same sentence the difference is so great, really, and that's not just partisanship speaking.

This is an insult and another example of the Republican Party's willingness to throw this country under the bus by making politial decisions that they think will benefit them at the expense of the good of the country.

"Country First" my ass.

McCain POV (0.00 / 0)
I think Palin is certainly a better choice than any of the final four on the shortlist. Ridge and Lieberman would've been really poor choices due to their pro-choice views, while Romney is way too phony. Pawlenty, well, he doesn't have any major flaws but it was a boring choice. I think McCain probably realized that he needed to make a risky pick because due to the political environment, he's the underdog.

As for as the whole experience issue, it does make him look foolish for attacking Obama over it. I'm sure conservatives will compare this to Obama campaigning for change and nominating Biden. Seems pretty similar, but the difference to me is that change is not based on how long you've been in office, but rather on what you believe.

I wonder who he would've chosen if Obama chose Hillary?

yep (0.00 / 0)
McCain's path to the presidency would be pretty much blocked if he chose Lieberman or Ridge. And despite some of the polling that had the race even McCain's people know the right track/wrong track numbers mean he would have a really hard time winning with Bush's 2004 campaign strategy. The McCain/Palin path to victory is a long shot, but it's their most realistic shot. Especially if the tire-swinging pundit class goes gaga over Palin as a maverick pick.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
"take off the partisan blinders, and celebrate" ARE YOU F---ING CRAZY?!?! (4.00 / 4)
Celebrate a choice that cynically tells Clinton voters that they should back McCain simply because his VP is a woman, never mind that she's anti-choice, a creationist, a gun fanatic, AND a REPUBLICAN who will appoint more Scalias to the Supreme Court!?!  

We need more African Americans on the Supreme Court, but I'd trade Clarence Thomas for a white male liberal any day.  

A black, female Secretary of State!  What a barrier breaker, except that she's a neocon yes-woman for the worst president in history and he's the spearhead of a foreign policy from which we may never recover, no matter how many menignless backgrounders we read about Condi's "concerns" about Bush excesses.

The first Hispanic Attorney General--another fortress of white patriarchalism breached.  Oh, wait, it was broken in order to facilitate torture, politicizing the judiciary, and gutting the 4th amendment.  Gonzales' ethnicity bought him perhas a few more days of goodwill than otherwise, that's all.  Meanwhile if you really want to see Latinos get ahead in the legal profession, Gonzales has become an albatross-like symbol of how not to get ahead.  

All that Republican nods to diversity do is make a mockery of liberal efforts to make American government look like the American people.  No celebration for Palin, none.  No barriers broken, only more ersatz multiculturalism and another Orwellian manipulation of liberals.  Don't even think about taking a second out in the next two momths to give McCain and the GOP credit.  Defeat them.  

David, the break from blogging ended too early.

Exactly. (0.00 / 0)
Republicans don't believe in multiculturalism, they only see it as a way of mindfucking those of us who do believe in it.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
At First Glance, Palin Is A Smart Choice | 103 comments





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