Same Attacks, New Face

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 23:09


Palin just delivered exactly the same identity-based attacks that McCain and Republicans have been using all summer against Obama. Those attacks only resulted in Obama's favorables rising, and were ineffective. The idea with Palin seems to be that if those attacks are delivered by someone with a different demographic profile, maybe they will work this time.

I doubt it. Palin was the best speaker they had in terms of style, but I don't think the problem with the attacks is that they wanted for style or demographic posturing.

What do you see tonight? After watching two nights of this stuff, I had forgotten about how Republicans saw themselves as just a bunch of purely good people who are opposed by a shadowy, sneering liberal minority. That even actually seems to be their entire platform, as everything they propose somehow stems from that belief.  

Chris Bowers :: Same Attacks, New Face

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Same Attacks, New Face | 131 comments
The greater the hate, the greater the roar (4.00 / 9)
I know I'm biased, but how was that speech supposed to appeal outside of the arena?  Did that go out of bounds to the independents?

John McCain won't insure children
Great Speech (4.00 / 2)
for 2004.  Honestly, that was a great red meat base speech, it's too bad they're only 75% of the size of the Democratic party.
Did she really double-down on the (4.00 / 16)
Bridge to Nowhere?

So she's not just lying, she's lying after she's been caught lying?

Seems to me that that's our story of the night, at least.

maybe it was just me (4.00 / 2)
but on the TV it seemed like a lot of the delegates looked uncomfortable after that line.  Maybe they read the news.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I noticed the pause then too (4.00 / 2)
It was almost palatable, the sudden recognition she said it again.

But then they applauded nevertheless.

I guess all as expected.

[ Parent ]
It's not lying... (4.00 / 1)
...it's serving a Higher Truth.

I'm not sure if that's Jesus, or the Party, but it's serving something.

Of course, 'situational ethics' is something only liberals have.

These people, if elected, will leave 'In God We Trust' on the currency, but will doubtless replace 'E Pluribus Unum' with Al Davis' 'Just Win, Baby!'

[ Parent ]
Sarah's "Speech to Nowhere" (0.00 / 0)
Framing from this diary.  Fairly clever.

Also caught the sig line "Don't worry, Sarah Palin stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night"

[ Parent ]
Standard GOP boilerplate (4.00 / 4)

 I'm not sure that was the right approach for an unknown political figure making her big-screen debut.

 She came across like just another cranky Republican hack.

 I think the public is tired of those.

 But I think the talk of dumping her from the ticket will probably recede now. She satisfied the base.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

That was never going to happen... (4.00 / 1)
...dropping your VP is the equivalent of conceding the race...  She just had to look like she met the minimum qualifications to be on the ballot, and she did that...

We'll see what the net effect will be...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
Wow (0.00 / 0)
I feel as if I saw a different speech.


[ Parent ]
You did... (4.00 / 1)
It was a terrible speech.   Don't let a red meat crowd fool you.  This speech was terrible.   She will have her ass handed to her in the debates and by the media.
[ Parent ]
The debates, maybe (4.00 / 3)

 The media, no. Her sins are forgiven.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
unfortunately yes (0.00 / 0)
both Ben Smith and Jonathon Martin at politico are already gushing.
[ Parent ]
I will say this (4.00 / 5)

 I absolutely HATE Sarah Palin now.

 She encapsulates everything that's wrong with this country.

 I wish her ill.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
My sentiments exactly (0.00 / 0)
Before, I merely thought she was an idiot and I disliked her. Now, I cannot stand this woman.
[ Parent ]
Since when (4.00 / 2)
do Smith & Martin qualify as "the media"??
[ Parent ]
well they don't (0.00 / 0)
but I think they will be representative.

We shall see. I'd like to see the Obama campaign hit her on the bridge to nowhere lie.

[ Parent ]
what was your take? (0.00 / 0)
I feel like she did a good job of ridiculing Obama. The "bitter" statement stung the most. That's the only real area where I see her landing a solid punch.

The bridge to nowhere was weird. Is she that stupid? She could have just left that out and people would have realized she was walking back from it.

She came across as smug to me. But then again, I'm a partisan democrat. I wonder how it came across to undecided people and independents.  

[ Parent ]
Smug (4.00 / 4)
is the perfect word!
[ Parent ]
and surprisingly sarcastic (4.00 / 2)
I don't think that will over well after tonight.  
[ Parent ]
I thought "smug" was automatic (4.00 / 2)
for Repigs. Their definition is outrage, resentment, and anger, all predicated on their picture of themselves as superior, wiser, and entitled.  That's why I can't watch or listen to them anymore.  It makes me want to puke.
[ Parent ]
She came across like Rush Limbaugh. (4.00 / 4)
Of course Limbaugh is very popular, but not among enough people to win elections for Republicans any more. Ditto heads will love her. People who are not gullible jerks, maybe not so much.

miasmo.com
[ Parent ]
Its Not Playing Well At My Job (0.00 / 0)
I work with a number of disaffected Hillary voters and they found the Palin pick condescending.  They weren't impressed with the speech either.

One co-worker said to me - "they think I am going to vote for her just because she is woman when she stands for everything I am against."  I noted this is typical with Repubs and brought up Michael Steele to make the point.

I think she did pretty well with the delivery but I am starting to wonder about the substance.

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure (4.00 / 1)
how she does as an attack dog.

The VP, and I see Biden really relishing here, is supposed to lead the attack, make the mud fly while the top dog appears presidential.

I just don't see her being successful at this without appearing shrewish.

Maybe I'm just being sexist, I don't know.

As attack dog, she just painted a large target (0.00 / 0)
on the front of her business suit.

Joe Biden still needs to restrain himself at the Veep candidates debate. But he no longer risks having to apologize for being tough on her.

[ Parent ]
She's a huge talent (4.00 / 4)
As huge as I've seen since a guy named Obama gave a speech 4 years ago.
And that was fantastic political theater.

And yes it matters that she, a "small town girl," as opposed to just another DC millionaire, is launching the attacks.

Tweety's right: this is all about culture now, and we're going to see a relentless attack on Obama's purported cultural liberalism. But we already knew that.

It's going to be a very tough race. But we knew that too.

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR F-ING MIND! (3.20 / 5)
TO compare a masterful orator like Obama to this mumbly mouth incompetent is insulting to Obama and all Democrats.   Seriously, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR F-ING MIND!
[ Parent ]
In her way, yes (4.00 / 3)
Master orators don't connect with everyone.  Many people distrust eloquence, and have a tin ear for poetry.

That's why Reagan was successful, and part of the reason Bush is in the White House.  

She is no Reagan, but she is appealling enough.  If I had been asleep for two weeks, and heard her in an entirely fact-free mode, I would think she had done well.  I'm not sure how much talent she has, but she probably has enough, absent the baggage, to hold her own.

But, knowing how blatant the lie is about the Bridge to Nowhere, and knowing that the questions raised are substantial and legitimate, she rose my ire in a way McCain never has.

[ Parent ]
And So Is The Idiot Who Troll Rated You (4.00 / 2)
YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR F-ING MIND!

You don't troll rate someone just because you disagree with them, Querent.

As to your original point, I have to agree.  There are literally thousands of people out there with better oratorical than most national politicians.  These include actors, motivational speakers, preachers, even a few used car salesmen.

The ability to give a strong speech is not really indicative of anything more than the ability to give a strong speech.  If you give a strong speech, but it doesn't answer any of the dozens of questions that have been raised about your qualifications, your record, your honesty and integrity, then you've really shot yourself in the foot, "big time," as America's #2 war criminal would say.

Why?  Because you've as much as admitted, "even with my oratorical skills, I'm not going to try to defend myself, because I'm basically beyond defending, I'm just going to try to take the other guy down with me."

And that's what Palin has done.  She's admitted that everything said about her is true.  She has no defense, except baseless attacks against others.

This is not to say that this will be instantaneously obvious to everyone.  Clearly, it will not, as Republicans have been using this tactic rather successfully for quite some time now.  But it's clearly starting to wear off, and now's our time to point it out repeatedly, rather than standing in awe of this BS.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Uprated (4.00 / 1)
because of the troll rating.  
[ Parent ]
My point is (4.00 / 4)
She's the first person I've seen in a long time who can deliver red-meat conservative populism convincingly. And conservative populism has a track record of success even when it's complete bullshit.
[ Parent ]
Ah! That's clearer. (0.00 / 0)
What was her populist message?
[ Parent ]
conservative populism (4.00 / 7)
is all about victim-hood and the feeling of being looked down upon by some elite class. It's why they talk about "liberal elites" all the time. It's completely about identity politics. But it's faux identity politics. Much racist politics were also conservative populism in terms of blaming economic problems on some ethnic group (e.g. immigrants, blacks, etc.) rather than on the actual structural inequalities in society.

So Palin played that up to a T with her "bitter" attacks.  

[ Parent ]
But that's same old. (0.00 / 0)
I mean, did she bring at least one memorable phrase, akin to 'blue American, red American, United States of America'?

Did she give the media a specific hook? Or just all about her delivery and tone and such?

[ Parent ]
oh I agree (0.00 / 0)
But I think it will work on the margins.

Just anxious to see how Obama (and the public) responds.

[ Parent ]
This was cliche bingo (4.00 / 2)
What was convincing about it? Perhaps a tiny bit more convincing than Guiliani but is that the bar?
[ Parent ]
Well, She Also Looks Better In A Dress Than He Does (4.00 / 1)
So, yeah, I'd say Guiliani is pretty much the bar for judging her on all fronts.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3
[ Parent ]
She appears to have stepped (4.00 / 2)
straight out of the book What's the matter with Kansas.
[ Parent ]
Effectively? (0.00 / 0)
Or not?
[ Parent ]
we'll see what the polls say (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
She is the cultural war as class (4.00 / 2)
was incarnate.

The problem is that this election is about the economy.

[ Parent ]
Her scandals aren't going away (4.00 / 6)

 She's a liar, a hypocrite, and just another Republican hack. This speech didn't change the realities of her history.

 Of course, we won't get any help from the media pointing that out anymore. She'll get complete absolution. So it's up to the Obama campaign to keep the pressure on.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Don't write off the media so quickly! (4.00 / 7)
Tom Brokaw's response to Palin's speech was to call her on the "Bridge to Nowhere" issue.

And the panel of journalists on Charlie Rose right after that agreed that she may still have trouble with the scandals.

After all, if she stonewalls the legislature, the legislature's special investigator is entitled to conclude that she has no other reason for firing Walt Monegan as the Public Safety Commissioner than Monegan's refusal to revisit the disciplinary infractions for which Wooten (the brother-in-law) had received a 5-day suspension before Palin was elected governor. She did such a good job of vetting Monegan's successor, Kopp, that she appointed a sex harasser who had to resign two weeks after Palin appointed him.

If the report on the legislative investigation comes out before the election, and that report finds that she abused the power of her office and wrongfully fired the highest public safety official in the state, that will have at least as much bad impact on the GOP ticket as W's DUI conviction disclosed on the eve of the 2000 election had on W's popular vote totals against Gore.

[ Parent ]
Liar, check. Hypocrite, check. (4.00 / 2)
So she's qualified to be a Repig.

I actually think the O/B campaign should studiously ignore her.  She reminds me of one of those miniature Dachshunds which love to run up the fence yapping at you as you walk by.  If she actually got close enough to bite, one good boot would put her down for the count.

The thing is, Obama is winning on the issues.  Evita is irrelevant, except to the Repigs.  I've given up on persuading the remaining hardcore.  They speak a different language and live in a different dimension than I do.

[ Parent ]
bravo (0.00 / 0)
Biden should pat her on the head, then train his fire on McCain and hammer away on the issues.
[ Parent ]
I didn't watch. What was her (4.00 / 2)
'not Red America, not Blue America, the United States of America' line?

And to tell the truth, this doesn't worry me too much. George Bush, who energized the base like none other, as a wartime president, barely beat Kerry, whose campaign compares I think unfavorably to Obama's, at a time when the fundamentals were very different.

That's not to say this is a cakewalk, but would you agree that they're playing from the same book they used in 2004?

[ Parent ]
To deliver populism she actually have to talk about the things (0.00 / 0)
that matters to people who are suffering.

I think you came into this tonight with the view that she would be better. You still haven't answered my questions from earlier.

Chief among which- how does this change the dynamic of the race because frankly that's what the GOP needed thic convention to do.

By the way, for the GOP 2008- that answer isn't populism. If it were Huckabee at the top of the ticket- maybe. But that's not John McCain.  

[ Parent ]
I Agree She's A Talent (4.00 / 1)
But what you're doing is akin to the people who compared Grant Hill to Michael Jordan. There's no comparison there my friend.
[ Parent ]
There's no 'there' there (0.00 / 0)
And thusly the Speech to Nowhere. Well, nowhere but down.
[ Parent ]
This Is Not A Culture Election (0.00 / 0)
I maybe wrong but from all polling data I have seen this is one of those years when people want to talk issues, ideas and vision.  People are hugely unhappy on many fronts and they appear to want solutions not distractions.  Sarah Pallin did nothing to address people's concerns about the economy, Iraq, Bush policies and frankly offered lots of distractions.

I sense the Repubs are trying to re-run 2004 and I don't think that dog will hunt this year.

This is a change election a lot closer to 1980 and 1992 than 2004 and that is good for Obama.

[ Parent ]
Disgusting (4.00 / 5)
That'll get the 25-percenters fired up, but they probably lost a shitload of independents with the asinine schoolyard crap they were pulling tonight.

And what the hell is with shitting on community organizers tonight?

Also, can the McCain campaign (0.00 / 0)
complain about media treatment of Palin if she's such an attack dog?

Seems to me that this forecloses that complaint to some degree, perhaps. And the sexism complaint, too--I didn't see the speech, but sounds tough, at least. They can't pretend she's a delicate flower? Or am I wrong. (And they can pretend anything!)

They have given themselves an uphill climb. (0.00 / 0)
Nobody likes that yappy little dog that runs out nipping at your heels, then runs and hides behind its master when you turn around. But that's who Sarah Palin is.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
I'm with Mizner (4.00 / 1)
She's no slouch.  I disagree with him though because I think the election is going to go towards Obama pretty handily now.  She can deliver tough, conservative Red meat.  It's just not that time.  There was nothing inspirational in that, nothing empathetic (except for the special needs kids, but who can disagree with that) in it.  She just came off as angry and biting.  
As I keep saying- how did she change the dynamic of the race? (0.00 / 0)
Over at mydd.com jerome armstrong, and indeed when he picked her last week, many pundits said she was a game changer. Do you say that tonight? Do you see the game changed?
[ Parent ]
no (0.00 / 0)
I do see it closer though.

And one bit of heartburn Obama will have to deal with again potentially is the "bitter comments".

Memo to politicians, NEVER analyze the electorate.

[ Parent ]
I doubt it (4.00 / 6)
I am really not looking at this as partisan. I am looking at this in terms of the goal of the GOP convention- to make headway with the reasons McCain is losing against Obama. They had to be un-Republican. Hence their shout out to FDR and Clinton. They know that. People have said that her bar was low tonight, and I think that's defining a lot of what's being said.

I disagree with what people are saying. I think the bar was quite high tonight because it wasn't just enough for her to make sure people realize she's likeable.  SHe had to convince them she was VP material, and more than this start to present the case that McCain deserves to be in office. A la the Democratic Convention last week.

I am not going to go back and forth over what the numbers will be in the next few days. The problem is that ultimately it changed nothing that McCain, the presidential nominee, needed to change. His problem isn't his base. His problem is everyone else. How did change the discussion with everyone else?

[ Parent ]
I doubt it (4.00 / 1)
I am really not looking at this as partisan. I am looking at this in terms of the goal of the GOP convention- to make headway with the reasons McCain is losing against Obama. They had to be un-Republican. Hence their shout out to FDR and Clinton. They know that. People have said that her bar was low tonight, and I think that's defining a lot of what's being said.

I disagree with what people are saying. I think the bar was quite high tonight because it wasn't just enough for her to make sure people realize she's likeable.  SHe had to convince them she was VP material, and more than this start to present the case that McCain deserves to be in office. A la the Democratic Convention last week.

I am not going to go back and forth over what the numbers will be in the next few days. The problem is that ultimately it changed nothing that McCain, the presidential nominee, needed to change. His problem isn't his base. His problem is everyone else. How did change the discussion with everyone else?

[ Parent ]
well that's what I wonder (4.00 / 2)
Did the conservation change with anyone else?

Personally I thought she came across as incredibly smug and not likeable. Her sarcasm wore thin and came across as petty. But I wonder how other people will see it.

[ Parent ]
conversation not conservation (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
It's all in the media coverage (4.00 / 3)

 She's Pat Buchanan with a pretty face. It's amazing how odious that speech was, content-wise.

 But the media has now given her a seal of approval.

 And that's how the game is changed.

 She worries me. She CAN fool people.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
I disgree,b ut I am only going on (4.00 / 1)
what I suspect will happen over the next few weeks. Game changer doesn't mean what you are implying. It means that she presents an avenue for Mccain,t eh guy who is running for President, to win. She didn't do that tonight. She presented stuff that was red meat for hte base. I really can't keep saying this enough- the eyes of prize, and what she did- how does that help with helping McCain win?
[ Parent ]
Energizes the base to (0.00 / 0)
get out the vote?

Sounds to me like they've conceded the 'center', though.

I bet McCain will give a 'post-partisan' speech tomorrow, to appeal to them.

[ Parent ]
I think this race is coming down to whether (4.00 / 3)
people are living in a post 2006 or pre 2006 world. That's the line in the sand. If they are living in a post 2006 world then the GOP realizes they don't have a base big enough to overcome the Dems advantages this cycle. If they think we are in a pre 2006 world, they think they can do it by running as Rove did in 2004. The problem is that even in 2004 with a Kerry limited to public finance, who was hit by swiftboating, failed to fight in his own convention, consistently not performing as well as Obama in the polls- they barely won Ohio (a state at the time run by the GOP , now post 2006 run by the Democrats). These are the fundamentals. He didchange this. McCain can't run post partisan- he must run as a break from Bush. If he doesn't say that (which I dont expect because of the base ) then I don't see how he wins. I really am begining to believe they think they are still in 2004.
[ Parent ]
i think they are trying both. (0.00 / 0)
palin = pre-2006.  mccain and lieberman = post-2006.  

my gut says that the messages cross in a counterproductive way.  but who knows.  i suppose it could kinda work.... (though polling so far appears to suggest otherwise).  

[ Parent ]
It will fail (0.00 / 0)
not because of any high minded reasons. Its simple emotions. You are either for Bush or against him. Black white is what the American people do. Black white is what the GOP does. THey aren't good with threading needles.
[ Parent ]
media response was predictable (0.00 / 0)
And meaningless.  This changes nothing.  The polls will tighten; hell, you can't get bashed and insulted for three nights and not lose ground.  But the fundamentals remain.  Sarah is a joke to most of the country, and if the "base" loves her, so what?  This isn't 2004, and our base is bigger.  
[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
because she added drama to a Convention that would had none.

[ Parent ]
The drama was added due to her negatives (4.00 / 1)
which aren't going to go away. And the theatrics, which I can appreciate, aren't long term theatrics. More than this- here's the central problem- she's running for VP, McCain is running for President. Do you see the ultimate problem here? How does she change the dynamics to favor McCain over Obama?
[ Parent ]
And going so harshly negative (0.00 / 0)
isn't gonna convince the media to treat her with kid gloves, either ...
[ Parent ]
I don't know (0.00 / 0)
The MSM can be collectively awfully fucking stupid at times. I hope you're right.
[ Parent ]
Surely you know (0.00 / 0)
that in the world in which we live, negative attention is preferable to being ignored.  Negative attention created the suspense that created interest in the Clinton speeches.

So it was tonight.  

She is free to go as negative as she wants because she will argue "they were picking on my family".

[ Parent ]
Any fiction writer (0.00 / 0)
or defense lawyer (which I was) will to you that...
[ Parent ]
I am a lawyer who has become a filmmaker in the last few years (4.00 / 5)
Not to get too much into my background but i started in the creative fields went to law school and now after practicing am returning to my first love. I understand drama. I also understand being a master of the medium and understanding how to get out of the audience what you want in terms of tone, story you are trying to tell, etc. Suspense, humor etc all service the story, action and character. Without, it's just gimmick and technique. That's why this didn't work. She got her conservative base. that's it. Her goal, their goal this week, should have been to pull McCain up over the mid 40s in a consistent way. To change the narrative. I can say this now- they should have broken with Bush. That was the only way theywere going to win this election. They may or may not get a minor bounce, but it won't change the reality of the race. The reality of the race was breaking with Bush. I suppose McCain could do that tomorrow, but as of right now- they made a big mistake this week.
[ Parent ]
The fight in this election (4.00 / 1)
will be on whether it is about culture or about economics.  This has been the defining fight of our times.  The Republicans do not believe issues matter - as the McCain campaign manager made clear.  Or rather, not in the way that liberals understand issues. To conservatives politics
is something guttural and visceral.   You do not debate them in rational terms.

I will try to develop this further, but the Obama post-partisan rhetoric was always about pre-empting the attack that came tonight.  Fundamentally the post partisan rhetoric is about defining the Republican attacks as the SOURCE of the problems in the country.   Why are your wages stagnant while tax cuts go the rich? Why did we invade Iraq?  The post partisan goal is to drain emotion from the debate.  It assumes in a year when 85% of the country thinks things are on the wrong track that if you debate issues rationally, you win.

So contrast Palin to night with this passage from Obama's
Acceptance speech:


"And Democrats, as well as Republicans, will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past, for part of what has been lost these past eight years can't just be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits. What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose, and that's what we have to restore.

We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.

(APPLAUSE)

The -- the reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.

(APPLAUSE)

I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in a hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.

(APPLAUSE)

You know, passions may fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers.

But this, too, is part of America's promise, the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort.

At its core we are seeing a replay of the debate that has existed in this country for centuries: it is the dispute between rational liberalism and the fury of the mob.  
Since you are a filmmaker watch the 1936 movie the Fury or the end of the 1964 Movie the Best Man. In the Best Man, written by Gore Vidal, the conservative pours God into everything, and promises to increase military spending while ending the income tax.  His opponent, the cool rational liberal, regards the conservative as a idiot.  What the liberal does not see is what is expressed in the book What is the Matter with Kansas.   He is wrong to think his opponent is an idiot.  

Palin succeeded tonight because she expressed the conservative world view.  But she has walked into Obama's post partisan frame, and undercut McCain's theme of the maverick.  
 

[ Parent ]
I understand what you are saying (0.00 / 0)
I
[ Parent ]
the problem is that to suceed at rousing the mob, you have to be (0.00 / 0)
a brand the mob trusts.  
[ Parent ]
Just a $47 million change. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Total gamechanger (4.00 / 2)
Complete and total gamechanger I believe. She changed the discussion from experience vs. judgment, stability vs. change, young vs. old, and made it desperate/unpredictable vs. confident/arrogant, far-right vs. centrist, incompetence vs. intellectual curosity. The latter are not arguments I think the McCain campaign will win, while the former were strong for Obama's primary opponents at least.

She has made the experience argument look stupid and foolish and has made the race about defending her instead of trumpeting John McCain and I think that while it will get back to McCain, the GOP side of this election has been quite significantly altered to a question of McCain ala Palin's fitness instead of McCain/Palin 08, which to me looks to be a loser.

Finally, it seems the McCain campaign, while winning the post-DNC cycle, lost the media's sycophantic love with the necessary criticism of Palin's qualifications coming in the past few days, and that above most anything else may decide this election. (I think it's the most important factor)

That makes the choice of Sarah Palin a HUGE gamebreaker, just a gamebreaker for Barack Obama and not John McCain.

[ Parent ]
Gamebreaker, gamechanger (0.00 / 0)
I changed horses midstream. Meh.
[ Parent ]
The "Special Needs Kids" part to me was unsettling (4.00 / 4)
I work in the field with developmentally disable adults (particularly with employment) and found her comments unsettling.

Particularly when she proposed that if elected, parents of "special needs children will have an advocate in the White House."

She honestly has no idea.  Her 4 month old son has no need yet for systematic support.  As he gets older and goes to school and then leaves school she will find hardly any support and (unless they are wealthy) will end up angry and frustrated at the system.

Why?  Because social services are always the easiest to cut when "fiscal conservatives" start wanting to cut taxes and services.

She has no idea of what is ahead for her and her son.  She will find out, just like everyone else, the hard way.

But if she ends up in Washington state I wont hold it against her.  I'll just explain how there is very little we can do because the funding has been cut.  Then I'll suggest she move with her son to the "liberal" state of Vermont where the conservatives haven't had at the budget as strongly.

Maybe she'll end up a liberal, tax-and-spend Democrat....

[ Parent ]
end up (4.00 / 2)
Adversity has a way of doing that to people... you see the world through a different set of eyes when it happens.
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately she is a pampered 'pit bull' (0.00 / 0)
She will never see the darker side of how our society treats its disabled.  She is rich compared to most Americans and on top of that has solidified herself a wingnut welfare pension.  Just like any other elitist Repig, she will look at her own circumstances and think she must be the average, normal American.  'Doesn't everyone have a nanny?'  'Don't all kids with Down syndrome have a private tutor?' 'Can't everyone send their kid to specialists and have a direct line to their doctors?'  'No, well they probably deserve it.'
[ Parent ]
Exactly-- I'm in a similar field (0.00 / 0)
I don't work directly with disabled employees, but I was in a board meeting last fall when the notification of reimbursement cuts hit... yikes.  It's expensive, labor-intensive, and difficult.

[ Parent ]
McCain's an illegal Mexican immigrant (4.00 / 1)
See I can lie to. Maybe if I keep saying it, it will become true.
As expected, but not as good (0.00 / 0)
As expected, she exceeded expectation, just as everyone predicted.

But in her initial introduction, I actually liked her.  This time I didn't.  Perhaps it was because I know better know -- I assumed she wasn't lying the previous time she claimed to say "thanks, but no thanks" -- but most of it was the speech and delivery itself.  Usually they hide their authoritarianism better than this.

I find it almost impossible to predict how others will see things, but I was expecting to be more impressed.  I don't think her job interview went very well, tonight.

Yesterday's Whine (4.00 / 4)
Mediocrity. Snot nosed nastiness in her the tone. blatant, stale and previously revealed lies.

Is there a scientific way of measuring the irritant level of different voices? Because, I find her to be physically difficult for me to hear. She grates on my nerves. I don't think that has to do with what she's saying, it's just the sound of her voice has a squeal about it that makes me want to get away from it.  

My wife agrees (0.00 / 0)
My wife was sitting in the other room and couldn't even stand overhearing the speech as I watched it.  She left to go upstairs.

So you definitely aren't the only one.

[ Parent ]
Snot-nosed nastiness (0.00 / 0)
perfect description
[ Parent ]
Yep... (0.00 / 0)
Her voice gave me the same visceral disgust I felt the first time I heard W. speak back when he was running for Governor of Texas.  While I am already primed with ample disgust for any and all Republican politicians there are a few that really hit me at a gut level when they speak. Their hatred is apparent not just in the rhetoric they are delivering but in the delivery itself and it just leaves me feeling sick to my stomach.  God, I hope I don't have to hear her for the next 4 years.
[ Parent ]
I expected better (0.00 / 0)
I thought she was comfortable on the teleprompter, but the speech did her a disservice.  Maybe it really was written for Romney, but I agree with those who think it felt a bit inauthentic.  She had some good lines, and of course the delegates liked her, but I really expected better...
I think it was a 3 or 4 point night for them (4.00 / 1)
Yes I think it works, unfortunately. I think they will get a bump between Rudy and Palin, it was a good night for them. The first good night for them since the Dem convention started.
I am willing to bet you 20 bucks that you are wrong (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
I Put It At 2 Points (4.00 / 1)
They shore up some of their soft support but they don't snag anyone who wasn't already leaning McCain.

I bet they don't get anything out of McCain's speech tomorrow (he's been upstaged), and I think she goes back to being a liability on Monday.

The Obama campaign just needs to attack now. They've got the material. McCain's still got nothing that really altered Obama's campaign narrative and Palin, even in the midst of this speech, gave some more ammo. They just have to run a tough, disciplined, attack mode campaign right now and not make any unforced errors and they should be able to run up a very solid lead going into the debates.

[ Parent ]
Heh! (4.00 / 1)
It might even drop after McCain's speech!  He's got a tough act to follow!

Everyone's going to realize that he's on the top of the ticket, not she, and that has to be disappointing to them!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
She Slowed the Bleeding, She Didn't Stop It (4.00 / 2)
Here's the positives to take away:

1.) Liar. She lied about opposing the Bridge to Nowhere. I'd give that to Biden to sink his teeth into.

2.) Clinton voters. There was nothing in this speech that really appealed to Hillary's voters other than a handful of throwaway lines. I agree with Chris Matthews. There was nothing in this speech that really spoke to Clinton voters and they are, clearly, two completely different women. That was the entire reason they put her on the ticket. To go after Clinton's voters. They got nothing.

3.) Authenticity. Where was it? This is a woman who had a career in TV before politics and I think it showed. I said this twice in the other thread: split screen her speech and Biden's. Which one is real? Which one is acting, and which one is real? I don't think she plays as well in Scranton as they think. She looks like she came out of Hollywood casting and she comes across as phony.

4.) Seeds. "Sarcastic." "Mean." "Angry." You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Obama's surrogates need to hit these notes because the seeds are there to capitalize on.

Biden shouldn't worry (4.00 / 4)
about appearing too rough and condescending when debating Palin as she's hardly a shrinking violet.

That being said, she'll have to run on the Republican party agenda as a representative of its most radical elements.   Good luck to her with that.

Oh, and as a gay guy (4.00 / 2)
I found Track and Levi kinda hot in a dumb, rough trade sorta way.
[ Parent ]
This is one of my two positive takeaways (4.00 / 1)
The bar has been severely lowered for Biden getting in her grill.  
[ Parent ]
Have Biden respond, VP to VP (4.00 / 3)
I only watched a few minutes, but having seen the MSM headlines about her attacking the "Washington elite" my suggestion to Obama's campaign is to have Joe Biden get out there and respond, VP to VP.  

The gist would be something like:

"I'm no Washington elite. I'm a guy from a blue collar family who still takes the train back home every day (or week, or whatever), and Barack's certainly not one either.  He came here four years ago after working for the people of Illinois for X years (and paying off his student loans in the process) with the goal of reforming Washington, which he's already started doing.  In fact he's done more on that front in four years than John McCain did in 26."

"I don't know who Sarah Palin is calling the Washington elite (maybe its John McCain and the Republicans that have controlled the government and run up a huge debt over the past 8 years), but its definitely not us.  She seems like a bright well-spoken woman, but, to be frank, what she and her Republican colleagues are saying just doesn't make any sense, and the American people understand that.  They want a government that helps them move forward in their lives, not one that rewards only the wealthy elites, as the Bush Administration has done, with the full-throated support of John McCain.  Let's get real, people."

Maybe Biden (4.00 / 1)
should say, 'Wow, she's great. So much better than McCain. Better foreign policy judgment--never said we'd be welcomed as liberators, doesn't wanna stay in Iraq 100 years--better speaker, more executive experience than him. Why isn't she on the top of the ticket?"
[ Parent ]
something to this (4.00 / 3)
I remember some slams on Kerry in 2004 because Edwards was the more dynamic and exciting figure.  

Do the Republicans really want to brag that they're more enthusiastic about their VP than Presidential nominee?

[ Parent ]
They aren't going to do anything, yet.... (4.00 / 2)
...let her hang high for awhile...  She set herself up very poorly for the VP debate...

Since she's an attack dog now, she can't play the sympathy card...

She blatantly lied about at least 6 things on her resume....  That's the best time to hit her with them... during the debate, when she has to defend those lies and won't be able to...

Don't give her any advance warning... just don't...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
Honestly, now (4.00 / 3)
Who's that speech supposed to appeal to?

The base? They've got 90some percent of the base in the tank, and they're 6-8 points down.

Small town America? Look, nobody knows the downside of GOP policies BETTER than small town America, whether it be the disproportionate number of troops in Iraq, factories closing, family farms dying, unaffordable healthcare, etc.

If we weren't in a down economy - sure, they win.

Honestly, if they had a base that could swallow a pro-choice female VP, then MAYBE I'd be concerned. But they created this monster, and now they're feeding it, and they'll lose because of it.

They had the base, but did they HAVE the base? (0.00 / 0)
Sure the Republican base was supportive of McCain, what other choice did they have?  Barr?  Write-in for Paul?

But Palin gets McCain the base in the sense of enthusiasm.  She energizes them.  So while he was polling 90% of the base before, he now hopes to actually get 90% of the base to show up on election day to vote for him.

Problem is, that still leaves him a bit short.

[ Parent ]
You may have made a bad VP pick, if . . . (0.00 / 0)
A funny Palin take down:

http://reasonsnottovoteformcca...

Did she just say that McCain "doesn't run with lobbyists and Washington insiders"?

Because I'm pretty sure he is quite literally running with lobbyists and Washington insiders.

This Speech Was Huge Tactical Mistake! (4.00 / 4)
The Republican brand of Bush/Rove was spiteful and hateful towards all of those who did not agree.  That brand is now in the gutter.  Yet, this speech was delivered very much in the form of the Bush/Rove brand.

She was too mean-spirited, too vicious, too hateful, too crass, too unbecoming and simply too rough.  This was a very bad introduction to the American people.  

They will get a bounce (4.00 / 3)
The speech was well-delivered, and I'm sure the Republicans are happy with it.  They've established that they're not going to slink off into the sunset.

Can we please have less speculation about Palin dropping out?  As I've been saying for the past two days, the relevant example is Nixon's Checkers speech, not Thomas Eagleton.  A good speech erases all sins for GOP, always has, always will.

We cannot defeat this beast with wishful thinking about Palin's departure.  It's weak, it's nonsense, there's more than a little unseemly whiff of fear about it, and there's a damned good reason why Barack Obama doesn't go anywhere near it.  

So, how DO we defeat the beast?

I think a good place to start is what you didn't hear tonight.  

You didn't hear one damned thing about Health Care.  

You didn't hear one damned thing about job loss (other than the old time religion of tax cuts to the wealthy).

You didn't hear one damned thing about the corruption of the party that ACTUALLY has controlled Washington these last five years.

Now WE have to get back to hitting those issues HARD and stop obsessing about Sarah Palin.  Yes, fine, let's have the drip, drip, drip of whatever there is there to erode her fairy tale, but this needs to be a secondary aspect of the campaign.

Can we get down to business now?

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.

well luckily (0.00 / 0)
commenters here aren't in charge of the Obama campaign.

I think they'll do exactly what you're advocating

[ Parent ]
I haven't seen many lead bloggers advocating Palin's departure (4.00 / 2)
I am not a lead blogger,b ut I will say I would love to keep her around. Ticking time bombs are a great boonf or us.
[ Parent ]
Well I was referring to us commentors (4.00 / 1)
not actually Bowers and Stoller
[ Parent ]
I think so too (0.00 / 0)


sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.
[ Parent ]
I think they think they're winning (4.00 / 2)
Pretty much this whole campaign the McCain team has behaved as if their maneuvers have been successful and put them in the lead.  This convention so far has been more of the same, with a dash of fauxmenism on top.  Hit three things: A) POW, B) Obama's inexperienced (which is fair game again, now that they've conclusively shown Palin to be objectively very experienced), C) Obama's not regular.  If they had any idea what was really going on, would they have left "thanks, but no thanks" in Palin's speech again?  It really does boggle the mind.  I've heard a lot of speculation that the McCain campaign is largely staffed by the dregs of what the GOP has to offer, because no one wants to board the Titanic voluntary, but still.  "Embarrassing" doesn't begin to cover it.
I Beg To Differ! (0.00 / 0)
"Embarrassing" doesn't begin to cover it.

Ya gotta start somewhere!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Olberman called her Delores Umbridge (4.00 / 7)
The pink nasty witch of Harry Potter fame. I laughed my butt off
I had been thinking of that (4.00 / 1)
And he also called her Flick, the Reese Witherspoon character.  Both seemed apt, but not the kind of thing Obama or Biden can use.
[ Parent ]
Highlights of the Campaign (4.00 / 1)
Milfy VP Candidate gives bad speach that was written for her a month ago.

Drunk woman puts McCain over the top in the delegate count (NOT IN PRIME TIME).

Fun stuff.

where's my energy expert when I need her? (4.00 / 1)
Boston Globe blogger saw this

The Teleprompter scrolling through Sarah Palin's speech -- and the text released to the press -- contained a helpful phonetic guide for the Republican candidate on energy policy: "build more new-clear plants."

http://www.boston.com/news/pol...

Oh well, doesn't matter, only we elitists care about literacy.

My two positive takeaways, one of which hasn't been mentioned (4.00 / 3)
First, Joe Biden now has carte blanche.

Second, Todd Palin is a B-movie sleazeball. Within 2 weeks we'll have something incredibly salacious on this guy. You don't spend that much time in Alaska, with that look on your face, without making some enemies, embarrassing yourself in public, and running up tabs at strip clubs.

I've gotta admit to the same thoughts (4.00 / 1)
about the Palin family sire, but it's all based on the memories he brings back of guys I worked with at a full service gas station in Akron at the age of 17.

 

[ Parent ]
In the primary (4.00 / 5)
there was a knock on Obama that he was too much in the clouds, and that the rank/file dems want to know specifics; how much you're going to dump into this program, that program, etc. Hillary was always very good at this.

Oddly enough, that's how this moment in time feels for the general electorate. People have seen the cultural war stuff; they want to know A) how are you going to get out of Iraq B) how are you going to fix healthcare and C) How are you going to fix the economy?

He seemed to make a much stronger pivot toward that, and ultimately, I think the GOP is just going to have a hard time giving that. Because when you ask them, their answer is a ...

2000 and 2004 were about the culture wars. 2008 is about fixing things.

you know (4.00 / 2)
maybe I have it wrong, but

People are kind of scared right now. They want to feel good. They want to know that someone has some ideas to make things better.

That speech tonight just makes people want to take a shower.

[ Parent ]
Bingo (0.00 / 0)

People are kind of scared right now.

Palin's a distraction.

Obama should focus on Gramm's "whiner" remarks.

[ Parent ]
The speech was adored (4.00 / 1)
Proof? Here is RCP:

# Palin Reaction

   * Major-League Performer - Carney
   * What To Make Of Her? - Scheiber
   * Most Impressive - Schiffren
   * Will it Work? - Nichols

Obama has to stay focussed on McCain, and on how the Palin pick reflects that McCain is no Maverick - but a slave to the far right.  McCain=McSame can work its way into that story, but it's got to be part and parcel.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



not much (0.00 / 0)
In the end I'm going to go with the standard "people don't vote for VP's". I think tonight's speech accomplished one of its goals which was to solidify McCain's GOP support, and probably drove away an equally small number of left-leaning independents as it did bring in identity-driven right-leaning independents. Maybe Palin will bring a small bounce but I don't see any long lasting effects.

The main fight is a battle to control the everyday conversational chatter, both in the media and in beauty parlors and sports bars. We saw a pretty good narrative develop about McCain's unknown number of houses and Italian loafers, plus Palin baby drama and troopergate, and tonight we saw the other party pushing the bittergate story on top of POW POW POW... I think Palin would have been pretty effective with 2004's media cycle but this time around you have a more message savvy Obama team and a media thats ever so slightly skeptical of Republican narratives.

But I think we know what we're going to see in paid ads from these guys. At least we got a guy who can counterpunch - and punch from offense.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers

they wanna run as the 'change' ticket? (0.00 / 0)
Bring it on.  Even THIS country isn't that dumb.
[ Parent ]
Seems like McCain's strategy (4.00 / 2)
of mobilizing the base ala W '04 proves Plouffe right:  team Obama should focus on registering and turning out voters in key demographics.
Same old game (0.00 / 0)
I had forgotten about how Republicans saw themselves as just a bunch of purely good people who are opposed by a shadowy, sneering liberal minority

C'mon Chris, you know this!  The right thinks that everyone's evil, and that they're here to legislate us straight; & the left thinks that everyone's stupid, and that they're here to legislate some sense into us so we don't fast-food our lives away & end up fat & poor.  That's the way it goes.

sh(A)ne

Respectful Campaign? (0.00 / 0)
McCain Memo: 'Respectful Campaign':
Throughout his life John McCain has held himself to the highest standards and he will continue to run a respectful campaign based on the issues.

no no (0.00 / 0)
"This campaign is not about issues"

-Rick Davis, McCain Campaign Manager, this week

[ Parent ]
Freepers going nuts (0.00 / 0)
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo...

They haven't been so proud since Oliver North declared Iran-Contra was a neat idea.

Same Attacks, New Face | 131 comments
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